View Full Version : 2014 Game
czielinski
20-04-2013, 21:21
I know it's very early but I wanted to start a discussion about the 2014 FRC game. I know that this year many were thinking about a stacking game but any ideas for next year's game?
joelg236
20-04-2013, 21:27
This thread pops up earlier every year...
Obligatory "water game!".
We got so close to at least making it to champs without this thread popping up.
Yeah I'll second that Water Game too! :p
Hmm... My random guess is hockey.
Calvin Hartley
20-04-2013, 21:53
This thread pops up earlier every year...
Pretty soon we'll be talking about games two years in advance.
Maybe the end game will involve racing minibots on regolith tracks. I probably shouldn't have said that. I'm gonna go hide now.
joelg236
20-04-2013, 21:55
Pretty soon we'll be talking about games two years in advance.
Hm... 2015 game anybody!?
Calvin Hartley
20-04-2013, 22:00
Hm... 2015 game anybody!?
I'll go start a thread.... on second thought, maybe not.
I'm just gonna say it. I think there is a feasible way to do a water game. Instead of a field of water, (which is unrealistic) it would simply need to be a small body of water somewhere on the field. I'm thinking something like a kiddie pool filled with water with game pieces in it. Or something.
Pretty soon we'll be talking about games two years in advance.
I think the 2148 game is going to be Real Steel :yikes:
orangemoore
20-04-2013, 23:41
An game involving football should be coming up soon. It would a really hard game piece to work with.
hiyou102
20-04-2013, 23:48
An game involving football should be coming up soon. It would a really hard game piece to work with.
I think we might see a move from sports game pieces next year. It will probably some stacking game or something of that nature.
michael.saxon
21-04-2013, 00:13
Underwater basket weaving -- it's a water game, and we can go from "STEM" to "STEAM."
mman1506
21-04-2013, 00:22
Synchronized diving.
Samwaldo
21-04-2013, 00:33
Somebody please destroy this thread NOW before someone in FIRST sees this!!! I have a feeling that these "Jokes" that are such torturous ideas are all put on a list created years ago that they just add to every new thread. Then whatever we DONT mention that year is put into a hat. They then grab a few ideas and mash it into a game and slap a name on it!
CLandrum3081
21-04-2013, 11:10
Hmm... My random guess is hockey.
Being a Minnesotan and a hockey player myself, this would be my FIRST dream come true. :)
JustbeingJFK
21-04-2013, 12:02
I am thinking it will be a hockey game with the low friction floor like Lunacy !!:ahh: That's sounds like a great game.
If I'd had to hazard a guess, it would be a major sport. Look at the past years.
2007 - Rack 'n Roll
2008 - Overdrive (Nascar)
2009 - Lunacy
2010 - Breakaway (Soccer)
2011 - Logomotion
2012 - Rebound Rumble (Basketball)
2013 - Ultimate Ascent (Ultimate)
Following this trend, next years game should be one of the major sports.
GDC, prove me wrong! :D
If I'd had to hazard a guess, it would be a major sport. Look at the past years.
2007 - Rack 'n Roll
2008 - Overdrive (Nascar)
2009 - Lunacy
2010 - Breakaway (Soccer)
2011 - Logomotion
2012 - Rebound Rumble (Basketball)
2013 - Ultimate Ascent (Ultimate)
Following this trend, next years game should be one of the major sports.
GDC, prove me wrong! :D
I don't see a tend. 2013 threw the trend off.
I don't see a tend. 2013 threw the trend off.
Well, while Ultimate is a large sport with professional teams, it still falls in the range of sports like Arena Football. My point is that the next game (if it follows the trend) will be one of the more worldwide major sports (such as football, hockey, etc)...
Jibri Wright
21-04-2013, 12:30
Volleyball.
I'm predicting that it could be a pickup and stack : Possible pick up stick and place in bins on different height for more points;Stacking and placing different shaped polygonal of base the higher the more point and if knock down the other team scores point.
I'm predicting that it could be a pickup and stack : Possible pick up stick and place in bins on different height for more points;Stacking and placing different shaped polygonal of base the higher the more point and if knock down the other team scores point.
No no no no no no FTC game...
Sean Schuff
21-04-2013, 16:04
Volleyball.
I LIKE that idea!!
Curling and the endgame is stacking robots :D
orangemoore
21-04-2013, 16:37
Overdrive on regolith with Hills
ehfeinberg
21-04-2013, 16:43
All i'm going to say is if I see one more shooting game, I am going to go crazy! This year was pushing it with 2 shooting games in a row, if I see a third... This means no baseballs, no volleyballs, no footballs, no balls! I even don't want hockey!
Given that I really want Traffic Cones.
jwallace15
21-04-2013, 17:17
Given that I really want Traffic Cones.
Stacking game with traffic cones?
I wonder how far in advance the GDC starts planning games... Anyone know the answer?
ehfeinberg
21-04-2013, 17:23
Stacking game with traffic cones?
I wonder how far in advance the GDC starts planning games... Anyone know the answer?
Last year at Champs they said that they started planing games 2 years in advance to insure they have enough time to get game pieces.
However, they also said because how well received Rebound Rumble was that they completely redid the 2013 game. So unless they are going to redo the 2014 game, they should be planing the 2015 game after Champs.
Stacking game with traffic cones?
I wonder how far in advance the GDC starts planning games... Anyone know the answer?
Last I heard, it was two games ahead, but the issues from 2012 may have thrown them off a bit..
However, they also said because how well received Rebound Rumble was that they completely redid the 2013 game.
That's interesting. I hadn't heard of that; where did you see it?
ehfeinberg
21-04-2013, 18:03
That's interesting. I hadn't heard of that; where did you see it?
It was in one of the 2012 FRC Live Rebound Rumble (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE79A849F67510711) videos. I can't remember which one...
ehfeinberg
21-04-2013, 18:33
That's interesting. I hadn't heard of that; where did you see it?
Found It! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEptkEapiyo) 6:00 in. Beware of the buzzing noise.
stoutman777
21-04-2013, 19:07
I'm guessing that next year's game will be a hockey game. I've heard a lot of speculation on this and I think that it could be a viable option for FIRST. They could go back to using the regolith material too. Also, they could use this as teasing us with a water game because hockey is on frozen water. It's sort of close but not quite.
ptkunapuli478
21-04-2013, 20:20
The only sports FIRST hasn't really done is some fashion is football and hockey. But hockey would probably require that they bring back the floor from Lunacy. Unless they want to get into badminton, I feel like it'll be one of those. However, there is the chance they bring in a racing element like in 2008. But we all know how annoying that was to watch.
Anthony Galea
21-04-2013, 20:45
The only sports FIRST hasn't really done is some fashion is football and hockey.
They've done baseball?
They've done baseball?
Triple Play. Or didn't you realize that?
Just kidding. Triple Play was based on tic-tac-toe, though the clues pointed to triple plays and 3 and all that.
I would consider baseball to be a very dangerous game for spectators, drivers, and robots alike; if implemented at all there would be almost assuredly be some very strict controls on exit velocities and the like. And there would definitely be some changes to the game.
Oh, and when you say that the only sports FIRST hasn't done in some fashion are football and hockey, you KNOW someone's going to come out of the woodwork with:
--Curling
--Golf
--Rugby
--Lacrosse
--Polo
--Track and Field (particularly the Field part--Overdrive covered most of the racing sports)
--Volleyball
--Badminton
--Racquetball and Squash
--Broomball
--Swimming (had to say this one, because of the oldest joke in FRC)
--Biathalon (and other shooting sports)
--Cricket
--AMERICAN football (football was already done in 2010 :p )
--I'm sure someone can name a few more here...
tuXguy15
21-04-2013, 22:02
I can see a water game coming soon especially with new electronics not able to be damaged by water as easily like the talons, but I don't see it being 2014. I'm guessing soccer again or some sort of stacking game.
tuXguy15
21-04-2013, 22:03
I can also see there being a fourth alliance member very soon in the near future as more and more teams appear in the FIRST community.
Gigakaiser
21-04-2013, 22:40
Overdrive on regolith with Hills
That sounds too easy. That could possibly be the easiest FRC game ever pondered.
I can't imagine 3 shooting games in a row, but they are the most entertaining to spectators. I think a stacking game is very probable.
If not hockey, i think something with stacking.
That sounds too easy. That could possibly be the easiest FRC game ever pondered.
I can't imagine 3 shooting games in a row, but they are the most entertaining to spectators. I think a stacking game is very probable.
I think something to think isn't three shooting games in a row. Think about this: in the last 6 years, 5 of the games have involved shooting (08, 09, 10, 12, 13). Shooting in slightly different ways, and you could make the case that 2008 wasn't really shooting, but still...
While talking to Frank (FRC Director) at MAR champs, I felt it would be almost a sin not to mention a water game.
When asked about there being a water game in 2014, he said "I would make no assumptions"
Thats as good as a yes to me! WOOOOO :yikes:
Johnnybukkel
22-04-2013, 18:52
It's simple math, (Current year)+1=Water Game
a race or something to do with water would be pretty cool to build a robot that can manage that task
Daniel_LaFleur
24-04-2013, 08:33
Tiddlywinks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiddlywinks) with manhole covers
mcarobotics
24-04-2013, 22:36
"Welcome to the 2014 FIRST Robotics Competition, and this year's game, "Hat-trick!" Teams must hit small "hockey pucks" into their "end zone", an area near their alliance station. The pucks you need are at the bottom of a 10 foot deep "ice fishing pit". Teams will need to rappel down and retrieve pucks of their alliance colour. At the end of the game, bonus points will be given for scoring special pucks that will be found...on top of the human player's head in a white top hat. Teams must delicately lift the pucks from an opening in the top hat without "checking", or touching, the human player. Good luck and we'll see you at the competitions!"
scooty199
24-04-2013, 23:54
I thought of hockey and then immediately thought of the hockey pucks used in Face Off in FTC.
Then again, I guess you could have a large field with 6 robots, regolith material, and play Robot Hockey?
Every time someone talks about a hockey game, I'm tempted to dig out my concept for one and revise it to be a little more realistic...
In terms of the actual 2014 game, though, I think the most important thing to consider is the "ball/not-ball/ball/etc." pattern that has held true for quite a long time, and if it holds we're due for some more balls next year...
Every time someone talks about a hockey game, I'm tempted to dig out my concept for one and revise it to be a little more realistic...
In terms of the actual 2014 game, though, I think the most important thing to consider is the "ball/not-ball/ball/etc." pattern that has held true for quite a long time, and if it holds we're due for some more balls next year...
It's late, even on the West Coast!
.... Water Balloons!!! :p
Bonekiller407
25-04-2013, 14:34
I feel that the 2014 game may involve pool noodles in some way, shape or, form.
For our preseason project out team actually 'made' our own game in which teams had to pick up noodles and put them in sleeves on the floor over a wall. The further away they were the more points.
I also feel minibots may be brought back but probably not to climb poles like in Logomotion.
Iaquinto.Joe
25-04-2013, 17:34
1) It will not be a shooting game.
2) It will have terrain.
3) Balls will not be used.
4) End game involves zone scoring.
How about FTC's Bowled Over, but with KOP crates, and all the racquetballs replaced with bowling balls!
*Runs and hides because the GDC will probably use that idea now*
Ivan Malik
26-04-2013, 19:12
One thing that I would like to see is an end game that doesn't affect the score much, but rather affects seeding as the first tie breaker. With so few matches being played at most regionals the game should change to reflect this to allow better sorting in the standings. While more matches is the ultimate fix, if that is not possible then a change in the game could help solve some of the sorting woes. It should also be featured in the rules, not an anecdote hidden somewhere that no one pays attention to unless they are really looking.
Jhultink
26-04-2013, 21:30
3 Alliances
NERF Dart Tag (http://www.hasbro.com/nerf/en_US/shop/browse.cfm?N=63+538+605)
3 Alliances
Hate to break it to you, but that is essentially the one thing that will never happen again. NEVER. Matter of fact, any odd number of alliances will pretty much be out (even numbers remain an option). And here's why.
Before 1999, alliances were one team apiece, three alliances on the field. Somewhere along the line, quite a number of teams used the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" strategy, and knocked some pretty good teams down the rankings a lot by essentially playing 2v1. Collusion could not be proved (and most likely there wasn't any intentional collaboration), but FIRST decided that it could also not be prevented, so therefore it must be required. Enter the alliance system, problem solved. Until...
The #1 game on the least-liked game list was one alliance of 4 teams versus the clock. Rack up the points before time runs out, multipliers for stopping really fast. No defense. This was in 2001. (OK, maybe a few teams liked it. But if it's not #1, then it's #2, right behind regolith in Lunacy.)
Now, you could have 5 alliances... or 7 alliances... but then the fields get ridiculously large, and you don't deal with any of the mismatch in number of teams. But if you had 4 alliances of 2 on the field... Maybe you end up with 2 alliances of 4, or maybe you end up with 6v2. Or maybe you get 8v0 unintentionally.
Wierdsman
27-04-2013, 01:45
At the Dean's List Finalist Awards Ceremonies the presenter gave a hint about next years game. He said that Dean's List Winners will receive something that will be useful in next years game: A glow-in-the-dark Tape Measure.
So something to do with darkness or sensors?
Also during the Opening ceremonies and also during Dean's List Awards ceremonies Dean had said that he wants to spread FRC to be more attractive to viewers.
So something that is also pleasing and fun to watch! :D
Zuelu562
27-04-2013, 20:03
. . . Dean had said that he wants to spread FRC to be more attractive to viewers.
So something that is also pleasing and fun to watch! :D
This is a key point we need to remember. It's become a LOT easier on the non-initiated to watch FRC and figure out what is going on without having the WHOLE game explained to them in recent years. I'd argue 2010 was the closest to this paradigm (You got it in? You get a point!).
Going back to my first event (I was on a team in 2008, but did not go the regional w/ the team), 2009, 2011 and this year were the hardest to read in terms of people watching without any knowledge of the game beforehand. 2010 passes the test due to the easy correlation to Soccer, and 2012 passes because of the automated scorer and the correlation to basketball.
That said I don't think adapting a sports game to FRC is going to always the solution. Learning from the sports games, however is the key to making solid FRC games going forward. Easy, readable scoring (My goal would be "oh look they got it in, they got X points") and ideally solid automated scoring, with subtle nuances for the FIRSTer's to beat themselves up trying to solve.
nickcvet89
27-04-2013, 22:39
I think it will be an offensive game. FIRST might not want to go back to something like soccer type game which was..... a boring (Borat accent).
At the Dean's List Finalist Awards Ceremonies the presenter gave a hint about next years game. He said that Dean's List Winners will receive something that will be useful in next years game: A glow-in-the-dark Tape Measure.
So something to do with darkness or sensors?
Also during the Opening ceremonies and also during Dean's List Awards ceremonies Dean had said that he wants to spread FRC to be more attractive to viewers.
So something that is also pleasing and fun to watch! :D
Maybe they are changing the size of the field? Even a little bit?
prerob96
28-04-2013, 08:49
Baseball
Dang man frog force is already ahead of everyone:]
prerob96
28-04-2013, 08:54
I'm predicting that it could be a pickup and stack : Possible pick up stick and place in bins on different height for more points;Stacking and placing different shaped polygonal of base the higher the more point and if knock down the other team scores point.
I feel like this isn't going to happen because of the complexity they are starting to show these past years
prerob96
28-04-2013, 08:56
Maybe they are changing the size of the field? Even a little bit?
we have to use lasers next year
If there are obstacles next year, it should be stairs. Yes, stairs.
Arrowhead
28-04-2013, 10:31
If there are obstacles next year, it should be stairs. Yes, stairs.
Maybe a robot version of QWOP?
ErikEdhlund
28-04-2013, 11:58
I am going to skip saying a water game but have a ice game. Just to change it up :p
A. Estrella 78
28-04-2013, 12:02
WATER GAME!
No but hockey sounds like a possibility.
runneals
28-04-2013, 12:47
An game involving football should be coming up soon. It would a really hard game piece to work with.
That's what we were thinking too. I would hope that they won't go away from sports game pieces because it is SOOOOO cool to see the kids' (including high schoolers) amazement and excitement from catching the basketballs and frisbees.
Hmm... My random guess is hockey.
It's gonna be air hockey on regolith. Only one puck is on the field and it can not come inside your bumper zone!
jwallace15
28-04-2013, 13:58
I know a lot of people are saying it isn't going to be a shooting game, but I'd love to see a game involving pool noodles.
I thought of this: Pegs on a wall, and you have to place the pool noodles on the pegs? It doesn't have to be a shooting game; it could be similar to Logomotion.
But I'm not sure what the end game would be...
Rynocorn
28-04-2013, 14:35
Baseball
Here is my baseball game for next year. It was in another thread but your comment made me want to share it with you guys.
I'm holding out for a baseball game next year. Here's what I have been thinking about.
Game- First baseball
Pieces- whiffle balls (baseballs) (ideally a lot of them on the field at a time >100) and large colored cubes (players)
Field- there would be a high wall on either end acting like a fence on either side of the court which robots will have to shoot balls behind in order to score points. There would be a batters box (rectangle of tape) somewhere on the field from which teams could shoot over the fence safely (like key in 2012). The bottom of the goal behind the fence can be sloped so the balls will run off the side and be counted easily like 2010. Also, in the middle of the field, there will be 4 boxes that are something like 4-6'' (that's supposed to be inches) tall with one for each alliance and 2 neutral ones all arranged in a baseball diamond shape.
Goal of game- to score the little balls into the goal over the fence and also get points by getting your robot onto your alliance box (the bases) at the end of the game or putting the large cubes on top, or both for with increasing points for the level of difficulty. Or, the bases could be used in a manner like 08 where robots have to race around the bases. Having robots have to do all these challenges would give varied robots and not one method of winning.
Gameplay- since baseball does operate in turns with teams alternating playing offense and defence, there could be an element of strategy like Aim High with maybe only one scoring zone along the long width of the field where teams each can score during a 50 second period and then the final 20 seconds the score will go to both teams (co-operation points)
This is just an idea I have been thinking of and I think it would be a pretty cool game to play with. I also like the idea of lots of scoring pieces and also big scoring pieces, both of which this game would have.
At the Dean's List Finalist Awards Ceremonies the presenter gave a hint about next years game. He said that Dean's List Winners will receive something that will be useful in next years game: A glow-in-the-dark Tape Measure.
So something to do with darkness or sensors?
Also during the Opening ceremonies and also during Dean's List Awards ceremonies Dean had said that he wants to spread FRC to be more attractive to viewers.
So something that is also pleasing and fun to watch! :D
hmmmm..... maybe those glow-in-the-dark tape measures are for measuring in a shaded area.... multiple story field anyone?
Hmm... My random guess is hockey.
you are probably correct. one of the members on my team said last year during the regional that next year's theme will be frisbee (which it was), and said that next years will be something related to golf/hockey
you are probably correct. one of the members on my team said last year during the regional that next year's theme will be frisbee (which it was), and said that next years will be something related to golf/hockey
What do you think the rules will be like? And an end game?
evanperryg
28-04-2013, 19:55
If not hockey, i think something with stacking.
Stacking was done in 2003, though I guess it could be implemented in some other way.
Bonekiller407
29-04-2013, 14:36
Ok had an idea for an end game.
What if they brought the minibots back but this time they have to stop in a scoring area that changes every match (or not for less complexity) and the smaller the zone the more points its worth.
This could be up poles again(boring) or at a blocked off arena in the center of the playing field.
This could be interesting as teams will have to figure out a way to get the minibots to stop at the end of the match.
apples000
29-04-2013, 19:11
Stairs. You need to place game pieces on a flight of stairs. The higher you place the piece, the more points. If you climb up the stairs when you place the piece, you get the score multiplied. If you end on the top of the stairs, you get more points. Also, points can be scored by stacking game pieces. 28 x 38 robots with 6 CIMs and 4 mini-CIMs.
Annemarie433
29-04-2013, 20:19
Im thinking pick-up-sticks of some kind. Something that requires more percision. I am not leaning towards a water related game because of Sea-Perch (sorry if I spelled it wrong), and underwater robotics competition not affiliated with FIRST but a lot of FIRST kids are involved in it.
Not necessarily gameplay, but my ideas were ultrasonic beacons for goals and RFID chips for scoring object.
KatherineL433
05-05-2013, 12:06
Football (QB) and the end-game can be to climb steps!
kuraikou
05-05-2013, 20:59
I want to see a game when FIRST has a suggestion box and people can submit their various ideas, and they can incorporate them all together so that we would have a game created by the community.
Iaquinto.Joe
05-05-2013, 23:02
I want to see a game when FIRST has a suggestion box and people can submit their various ideas, and they can incorporate them all together so that we would have a game created by the community.
The problem is that they design games years in advance.
Jon Stratis
05-05-2013, 23:09
It's the perfect time for a hockey game, seeing as there are more FRC teams in Minnesota (you know, the State of Hockey) than there are guys High School Hockey teams this year!
I'm thinking something like Break Away (floor level goals, minimal excursion beyond the frame perimeter, no game piece penetration into the frame perimeter) crossed with Overdrive (oval laps, like the zamboni's), all played on regolith!
Jon Stratis
05-05-2013, 23:09
I want to see a game when FIRST has a suggestion box and people can submit their various ideas, and they can incorporate them all together so that we would have a game created by the community.
What, you think the GDC doesn't mine threads like this for ideas?
toastnbacon
06-05-2013, 11:08
I would be down with some curling. Unless I'm mistaken, wouldn't it be around the winter Olympics?
Zuelu562
06-05-2013, 15:24
Unless I'm mistaken, wouldn't it be around the winter Olympics?
Correct. And recently, FIRST has had a habit of using milestones and current events in the theme of the game. 2009, Lunacy, commemorated the 40th anniversary of Apollo 11, 2010 with the World Cup, and 2011 as the 20th FRC game.
If it is an Olympic Winter Sport, what are the plausibilities? Hockey and Curling have already been thought of, any other ideas?
dubiousSwain
06-05-2013, 15:31
FIRST said that they would increase matches in the championships, so what if it was 4 on 4, 2 offence 2 defence?
cadandcookies
06-05-2013, 23:05
Statistically it's quite likely that the game will involve some sort of balls-- even years since before 2000 have always had balls.
Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if they threw off that trend as well. In fact, while I love designing mechanisms that fling objects at high velocities, it would be refreshing to not do that one year.
Zuelu562
07-05-2013, 00:27
In fact, while I love designing mechanisms that fling objects at high velocities, it would be refreshing to not do that one year.
Would be nice to have a "just outside your frame perimeter" or manipulator game again after 2 straight ball games.
evanperryg
08-05-2013, 21:56
Looking back at the earliest games, in 1993 there were balls filled with water...
Maybe we are wrong. Maybe the watergame already happened.
blitzenkid
09-05-2013, 08:06
One of our mentors and I postulated this as our theory for this year's game:
The field is split into two sides, red and blue as normal, with three zones. Strewn at some semblance to random are game pieces, probably balls about the size of a grapefruit.
Teams can accumulate pieces by taking them from the other team or shooting a piece into a target (reward of 2-5 pieces depending on preference).
The idea of the game is to keep as many game pieces in the active game zones as is possible.
In autonomous, the pieces rewarded for shooting are worth double. After the autonomous period and the first minute, a zone is declared inactive, and all of the pieces in that zone cannot legally be moved into active zones.
We figured on a hanging end game, so that would probably be different. Perhaps something like retrieving an item from the bottom of a kiddie pool would be cool.
Anyway, I thought it was worth posting here because it's a cool concept, and something like this would be an interesting game for next year.
I know it's very early but I wanted to start a discussion about the 2014 FRC game. I know that this year many were thinking about a stacking game but any ideas for next year's game?
My team for years wanted to do a water game and I think that will be the game for the 2014 FRC Competition season!!!
Priyesh69
11-05-2013, 11:19
What about football
I was think how to make a football shooter it's shape make it's hard.
Iaquinto.Joe
11-05-2013, 20:57
What about football
I was think how to make a football shooter it's shape make it's hard.
I feel as though people would just take the Sparfox way out if it came to shooting footballs. Just slingshot it.
Zuelu562
12-05-2013, 17:00
What about football
I was think how to make a football shooter it's shape make it's hard.
In fact, while I love designing mechanisms that fling objects at high velocities, it would be refreshing to not do that one year.
Would love an American football as a game piece. Preferably not as a shooting game, and not this year.
ZRubenfeld
12-05-2013, 17:01
Laser Tag would be such a cool robotics game. :P
Laser Tag would be such a cool robotics game. :P
^this would be so cool
Abhishek R
12-05-2013, 18:08
A game where robots interact with each other (balls being placed into trailers, hmm ^^) rather than the field itself would be a nice break.
karomata
13-05-2013, 13:10
I'd like to see a stacking game with multipliers that aren't incorporated into the actual game pieces being stacked, and I'd also like to see the same game have an endgame form in which teams must heavily interact with each other to accomplish the endgame. And to increase robot on robot interactions, it would be cool to have a coopertition component and having the rules allow heavier defense than in the past 2 years. And preferably no safe zones.
I would like it if the robots could actually expand next year instead of just being limited to a 54" cylinder (or similar)
It'd be nice to see some variations from the 27'x54' rectangle. Even though I know it won't happen, I'm still crossing my fingers to hear the words "This year's game will be played on a circular field with a radius of 27sqrt(2/π) feet..." at kickoff.
Maybe these :D
http://youtu.be/i0m8VtWesgw
http://youtu.be/e-nZeqnnEEQ
Sorry -- couldn't help myself
orangemoore
13-05-2013, 21:27
it would be cool should have an elevated floor for the robots
Robots playing poker...?
No? Didn't think so...
Anthony Galea
14-05-2013, 14:32
Robots playing poker...?
No? Didn't think so...
It might actually be pretty realistic. An alliance is shown two cards at the beginning of a match, and there are feeder stations where you have to feed in large cards, in order of the deck, and you have to try to score as many poker combinations as possible, but other teams are allowed to descore, and use them to score on their own racks. Kind of like Triple Play, but with Poker instead of Tic Tac Toe.
jwallace15
15-05-2013, 21:34
Robotic Billiards or Bumper Pool?
The alliances have 3 robots each- one could move the cue ball to the right spot, one plays defense on the other alliance, the other hits the cue ball? 2 alliances going at once, first to knock in 5 balls wins? (That is for billiards... I'm not sure how bumper pool would work).
Or maybe Robotic Ping-Pong!
kiasam111
15-05-2013, 21:54
Robotic Billiards or Bumper Pool?
The alliances have 3 robots each- one could move the cue ball to the right spot, one plays defense on the other alliance, the other hits the cue ball? 2 alliances going at once, first to knock in 5 balls wins? (That is for billiards... I'm not sure how bumper pool would work).
Yes!
Now just raise the field up 10 feet...
jwallace15
16-05-2013, 15:18
Now just raise the field up 10 feet...
The underside could be like an actual billiards table with tubes and such for the balls to roll through!
It'd save field reset a lot of time as they wouldnt have to pick up pieces from everywhere about the field!
Robots playing poker...?
No? Didn't think so...
Why not? :)
http://www.team987.com/the-dealer-shines/
WaterClaw
16-05-2013, 18:54
Just to put it out there, in the future I think it would be interesting to have a flying game. Give the robots launch points, manipulatable field elements, and robots are disabled if they touch the ground.
Bear in mind however that FRC would need vastly cheaper and more efficient parts to facilitate something of this magnitude but it would be interesting. Either that or more sponsor donations to teams. Maybe it would wok better for FTC...
Regardless, I had to put this out there after seeing the ideas get wierder and wierder, hence justifying my wild idea.
Maldridge422
16-05-2013, 19:52
...
FYI: Your username is perfect for this thread.
DampRobot
17-05-2013, 01:01
FYI: Your username is perfect for this thread.
Ahem.
WaterClaw
20-05-2013, 17:51
Hmmm... that's intereseting
Regardless, any thoughts on my flying game? It is rather unoriginal I agree but it would be interesting to watch.
Calvin Hartley
21-05-2013, 08:48
FYI: Your username is perfect for this thread.
I was thinking the same thing.
Ahem.
Yours too, although slightly less obvious.
karomata
21-05-2013, 08:50
What about the ornaments FIRST gave out at Championships for attending the Finale? Seems a bit random and not like FIRST to do. Maybe it's a game hint?
What about the ornaments FIRST gave out at Championships for attending the Finale? Seems a bit random and not like FIRST to do. Maybe it's a game hint?
What were they?
Charles Boehm
22-05-2013, 10:03
Anybody got money on a water game?
bbradf44
23-05-2013, 20:23
Anybody got money on a water game?
I got my money on a water game. Think about it, the regular pushing, kicking, throwing, putting on pegs is getting old and older more experienced teams have a huge advantage. Granted they will always have somewhat of an advantage, but no frc team has done a water based game, in theory this could put more teams on the same playing field. And besides I think a water game is far overdue, were ready for a new element :)
Or they could throw a new version of the Hybrid mode at us. Since the xbox one was announced for labor day weekend that plenty of time for FIRST to start putting the new kinect in the KOP. Plus microsoft is a sponsor of FRC
Rynocorn
25-05-2013, 11:04
I am really surprised that we have managed to get 9 pages into this discussion without 30 people suggesting a water game. Oh wait...
CrazyRussian96
25-05-2013, 13:21
Oddly enough, a few members of my team decided earlier this year that in the event of a water game, they would name the robot after me.
Bryce2471
25-05-2013, 14:06
Dodge ball any one?
Dodge ball any one?
this would be very awesome but i kind of doubt it will be a shooting game next year after two in a row
Dragonking
25-05-2013, 15:42
A great way to cheaply implement a water game is to have minibots that have to swim underwater.
apples000
25-05-2013, 17:03
Here's something interesting. The dean's list winners were given glow in the dark tape measures and were told that they were a game hint. To get into the science center, you got a glow in the dark bracelet.
mman1506
25-05-2013, 20:17
Here's something interesting. The dean's list winners were given glow in the dark tape measures and were told that they were a game hint. To get into the science center, you got a glow in the dark bracelet.
And the new kinect will work in the dark. Hmmmm.
It would be neat to have a game with blacked out driver stations and you had to use a video stream.
mcarobotics
26-05-2013, 13:55
A glow-in-the-dark game would be very cool.
Also, keeping with the winter olympics idea....
What if we had a field with a hill on it and the robots had skis?
Robots would ski down the hill (the hill would preferably have moguls) and would pick up a game piece. Then they would climb back up the hill. Points are given for how high you climb back up.
kiasam111
27-05-2013, 21:23
Can we mess with gravity? Please please please???!!!!
Can we mess with gravity? Please please please???!!!!
We did. We don't speak of that year anymore.
*2009 Okay, so we didn't actually mess with gravity as that's fairly hard to do, at least cheaply. We modified the coefficient of friction to simulate the lack of gravity. Close enough.
Zuelu562
28-05-2013, 08:33
*2011
2009 :)
2009 :)
See, I told you we don't talk about that year. :p
Thanks for catching that though. Fixed it. xD
Zuelu562
28-05-2013, 09:51
I talked about this earlier, but it seems FIRST tends to skew the game one way or another (probably unintentionally) with the points.
2010's endgame was way too difficult for what it scored (IIRC, it was 2 points if you hung on your own, 3 if you hung off another robot, versus 1 point for each soccer ball scored). 2011 was the opposite end of that spectrum, where pretty much everyone agreed the minibots were WAYYYYYYYY too many points.
I think 2012 hit a happy medium; you cared about the primary scoring element and you could, in theory, bury an alliance under the weight of the basketballs, but the endgame also mattered a large portion of the time. It also helped that with the automated scorer that year, teams knew exactly what had to happen in the end game to achieve a given result.
This past year, was again, close, but an argument can be made that the pyramid scoring is off - whether you are in the 10 is too much or 30 isn't enough camp, something about the pyramid was off. Otherwise, I think the game was fairly balanced.
This coming year? Who knows, (oh wait, the GDC), but what I can tell you is that they've gotten better in recent years about getting scoring right and not completely devaluing a certain part of the game. I hope they have a game where they can use the high speed laser receivers again and avoid the debacle with 2013's *cough* "Automated" Scoring System.
</walloftext>
If any of these ideas are right I sincerely think that FIRST should send that guy a plaque unless it a water game in that case send every team a medal
And the new kinect will work in the dark. Hmmmm.
It would be neat to have a game with blacked out driver stations and you had to use a video stream.
I feel like that wouldn't fly for safety reasons. What if your camera broke and you were blindly driving around a 120lb machine at high speeds?
How about a Hybrid Hockey-Pinball game? it would at least be fast-paced and original.
Bryce2471
02-06-2013, 03:50
I really think that dodge ball would be unique, and cool. Teams could be required to put a strip of reflective tape above their bumpers, there would be a line in the middle of the field that no one can cross until the last thirty seconds of the game. Human players can through balls in the end game as well. Also there is something like in empty sells from 2009. This wold push the great teams to make small but effective robots.
It would also be cool to have a game with two types of projectiles such as pucks and frisbees. Although i doubt. That they'll have another throwing/shooting game for a while.
Bryce2471
02-06-2013, 03:55
Also, there needs to be a game with ping pong balls soon.
Iaquinto.Joe
02-06-2013, 13:18
I'm putting my money on an arm game, descoring, and an easy endgame. Possibly an endgame that translates to the teleop mode. Meaning if you're good in teleop, you will be good at the endgame, like zone scoring or something.
Also, there needs to be a game with ping pong balls soon.
I feel like golf balls are more likely considering how fragile ping pong balls are, unless that was part of the challenge, but on the other hand they are much cheaper
Bryce2471
02-06-2013, 15:22
There was recently an off-season event here in the north west that involved up to 700 ping pong balls. There were many ping pong balls destroyed, but they were cheap enough that the hosting team replaced any broken ones between matches. The game involved shooting the ping pong balls at other robots. This would have to dangerous with golf balls.
mlanglois
02-06-2013, 17:25
A water game would be cool.
Jacob Bendicksen
04-06-2013, 23:17
There was recently an off-season event here in the north west that involved up to 700 ping pong balls. There were many ping pong balls destroyed, but they were cheap enough that the hosting team replaced any broken ones between matches. The game involved shooting the ping pong balls at other robots. This would have to dangerous with golf balls.
@Bryce: Holla! Yeah ping pong balls were great for us because they were cheap and easily available, plus you NEVER had to worry about running out in a match. My one concern with using them in an FRC game would be just that so many of them break, and they're a nightmare to clean up (our carpet still has pieces ground in).
Sorry for joining the party so late. My thoughts:
Water Game: Ain't gonna happen. How many regional venues have pools?How many schools have pools that they'd be willing to devote to robotics? What kind of clean-up is required when various lubricants spill / leak, or when bits and pieces fall off?
Shooting Game: Agreed, we've thrown a lot of things in recent years, time for a break. (Unless, as some suggested, we tie this in with the Olympics, and have a biathalon game -- with REAL shooting! :ahh: )
Stacking Game: My personal favorite, although it should be noted that Stack Attack in 2003 came so dreadfully close to BattleBots that the GDC is probably hesitant to repeat this. Stacking (or even "building"?) could be very cool, though.
Dodge Ball / Laser Tag: Potentially interesting, but A) how do you detect hits? Wouldn't this be a bit boring to watch?
Poker: VERY cool from the building / programming standpoint. But again, boring to watch?
Okay, let's combine ideas: Robots have to build a house of cards? :cool:
jwallace15
06-06-2013, 16:59
What if your camera broke and you were blindly driving around a 120lb machine at high speeds?
Simple: I would STOP!
Maybe have it so that if the camera fails the robot automatically shuts off.
I'm not sure how people would watch the game though if the lights are off...
bbradf44
06-06-2013, 19:53
I'm not sure how people would watch the game though if the lights are off...
Instead of turning off lights they could black out the window to the field from the drive station so the drivers couldn't see the field
JustbeingJFK
06-06-2013, 21:44
I think if FIRST even decides to do another sports game, which I don't think they will, I think they will do a tennis game. I don't think they will do a shooting game because they have done two in a row, It will probably be a stacking game or something we have never seen before in a FIRST game ( music, glow in the dark, cooking, dancing, etc.) So I think 2014 will be the best game in FIRST ever!
mman1506
06-06-2013, 23:00
I feel like that wouldn't fly for safety reasons. What if your camera broke and you were blindly driving around a 120lb machine at high speeds?
You drive blind hit someone and get penalized for it. You then realize its a bad idea to drive blind. There's no rule that you can't close your eyes currently :D
runneals
08-06-2013, 14:31
There may or may not be a hint from Andy in his recent video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmlEwcWSSd8)! Water game?
Calvin Hartley
08-06-2013, 17:42
There may or may not be a hint from Andy in his recent video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmlEwcWSSd8)! Water game?
I can't wait for those sealed Talons.
jbradbeer
09-06-2013, 12:19
do you know what would be better then a water game, an air game.
Kernaghan
09-06-2013, 23:20
I hope next years game has the same mindset of this years game in a sense. Forcing teams to not just know how to build, but to figure out what to build. Very few robots looked the same, and almost all teams had different roles.
bbradf44
09-06-2013, 23:27
I hope next years game has the same mindset of this years game in a sense. Forcing teams to not just know how to build, but to figure out what to build. Very few robots looked the same, and almost all teams had different roles.
That's what I loved about this year. No 2 robots looked the same. Many were doing the same thing just in completely different ways. I think a water game would be perfect in this sense. No teams have done it before so no one would really know what to build
Dragonking
09-06-2013, 23:53
american football/rugby
That's what I loved about this year. No 2 robots looked the same. Many were doing the same thing just in completely different ways. I think a water game would be perfect in this sense. No teams have done it before so no one would really know what to build
Actually, several teams have been doing NURC for a while now. I'd pick them hands down for a water game.
The last time we had a game this wide-open in terms of design choices was 2007 (2008 doesn't count, as anybody could build a lap-bot) with the armbots, the rampbots, and the "hybrids" that could do both well (and there weren't many of those--lots of attempts, though!). The time before that was 2004, with the bar specialists, the small-ball specialists, and some that could do everything to some extent or another. I'd love to see that sort of thing return.
Robert Cawthon
10-06-2013, 14:07
I feel like that wouldn't fly for safety reasons. What if your camera broke and you were blindly driving around a 120lb machine at high speeds?
You are making an assumption that the robots will be the same size/weight again this year. Think outside the box! What if they limit us to 60 lbs? :yikes:
Hm...has the weight always been 120 lb. or have they changed it in the past?
Let's see...not frisbees, not soccer, not basketball...
Beach volleyball anyone?
bbradf44
11-06-2013, 22:01
Baseball would be fun to watch
Dragonking
11-06-2013, 22:40
American Football/rugby
There are pvc or aluminum pipes scattered around the field. There are white, red, and blue pipes. You can stack these pipes on 2 bases placed on your side of the field.
The autonomous period is the first 30 seconds. Each robot can start with one pole and other poles will be placed in specific places around the field. Your alliance scores 5pts for every pole stacked during this time. After autonomous, points can not be scored for stacking.
There will be oval shaped balls scattered around the field. The "goal" is to shoot these ball from a zone behind your opponents goal, across the field through your own goal or into alliance robots on the other side of the field. You can only shoot between your alliance color pipes. The higher your alliance pipes, the more points you score. There will be sensors on these pipes that will count the number of balls that go through them. Opponents can't touch your alliance pipes, however, they can take other white pipes. The goals are made up of two towers of stacked pipes on your alliance side.
You score 1pt for every ball shot into one of your alliance members (you must be behind your opponents goal posts, your alliance member must be past the center of the field). You score 2pts*lvls tall that your alliance poles are, for every ball shot full court, from behind your opponents goal post. You can only score if the alliance poles are at the same level. You can unstack your opponents goal as long as they havn't placed an alliance pole on top yet.
During the last 30 seconds the engame occurs. At that point, you are allowed to begin unstacking your own goal posts. For each post completely unstacked your alliance gets 10 pts.
The design of the poles is probably the most complicated part in making this game work.
This is basically a stacking/unstacking/shooting game.
American Football/rugby
There are pvc or aluminum pipes scattered around the field. There are white, red, and blue pipes. You can stack these pipes on 2 bases placed on your side of the field.
The autonomous period is the first 30 seconds. Each robot can start with one pole and other poles will be placed in specific places around the field. Your alliance scores 5pts for every pole stacked during this time. After autonomous, points can not be scored for stacking.
There will be oval shaped balls scattered around the field. The "goal" is to shoot these ball from a zone behind your opponents goal, across the field through your own goal or into alliance robots on the other side of the field. You can only shoot between your alliance color pipes. The higher your alliance pipes, the more points you score. There will be sensors on these pipes that will count the number of balls that go through them. Opponents can't touch your alliance pipes, however, they can take other white pipes. The goals are made up of two towers of stacked pipes on your alliance side.
You score 1pt for every ball shot into one of your alliance members (you must be behind your opponents goal posts, your alliance member must be past the center of the field). You score 2pts*lvls tall that your alliance poles are, for every ball shot full court, from behind your opponents goal post. You can only score if the alliance poles are at the same level. You can unstack your opponents goal as long as they havn't placed an alliance pole on top yet.
During the last 30 seconds the engame occurs. At that point, you are allowed to begin unstacking your own goal posts. For each post completely unstacked your alliance gets 10 pts.
The design of the poles is probably the most complicated part in making this game work.
This is basically a stacking/unstacking/shooting game.
Dude, that actually sounds pretty cool! The only problem I can see is that the points scored might depend too heavily on autonomous and may end up meaning that what's 2 points for 1 alliance could be 6 for another, and that may not be so good. (I just finished my rookie year, so I'm not really sure how bad that would be...I'm just guessing) Also, if you stack 0 poles...well then maybe I guess just 1 or 2 pts?
BUT on another note, I'd like to see how the poles are...also, it requires teams to REALLY think. The best way to have both stacking AND ball shooting. Coolness.
Also, I really like that you thought a whole game through with this!
Max Boord
23-06-2013, 00:32
Groups of 3:
2014: tube?
2013: strange object
2012: ball
2011:tube
2010: ball
2009: strange object
2008:strange object
2007:tube
2006:ball
AaronLeondar
24-06-2013, 01:02
I wonder if a game could be made around the Bernoulli Principle. That is, suspending a ball on an airstream and maybe guiding it through hoops or something.
It would certainly make building a fast, lightweight bot a no-no.
Water games would be difficult and expensive. I'd go for football any day but it would be really hard to work with.
Dragonking
25-06-2013, 15:13
Water games would be difficult and expensive. I'd go for football any day but it would be really hard to work with.
I would take a football over a frisbee any day, especially if it is custom made like with the basketballs.
arizonafoxx
25-06-2013, 16:21
First off this is way way too early for this thread to pop up. There are still off season events happening. But never the less (and I can't believe I am doing this) I will fan the flames by saying this.
Hopefully FIRST realizes that when they hand us Frisbees we figure out how to fling them. There have been many people who say it is too hard to throw a football in FIRST. This year there were many that thought it would be too hard to fling a Frisbee. They said it would be too hard to pick them up off the floor. And some said a Frisbee would never make it all the way across the field accurately. All of these of course were proven wrong. So with that said I hope we have a football game soon. Talk about an easy to understand game for spectators. I for one would love to see the innovative ways people make a football spiral across the field and into a goal. Or better yet make it spiral with on mechanism and kick it for bonus points at the end with another mechanism.
So to FIRST please keep in mind that we will figure out what to do with any game piece you throw at us. There is no bad game piece and there is nothing impossible when it comes to using a game piece. We will figure out what needs to be accomplished to utilize your game piece to its fullest potential.
pntbll1313
25-06-2013, 16:45
First off this is way way too early for this thread to pop up. There are still off season events happening. But never the less (and I can't believe I am doing this) I will fan the flames by saying this.
I hope you haven't stumbled upon the 2016 game thread...
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116295&highlight=2016+game
I believe trying to come up with possible game scenarios is a great brainstorming exercise. It gets students thinking of creative ways they could solve theoretical games. It is a little distracting that half the posts every year suggest a water game but some of them are really good and sound like a blast to play.
There is no bad game piece
Wrong, please see 2008
Wrong, please see 20089;) Just saying. In fact, in that vein, there are plenty of bad game pieces.
I think it must have been Dave Lavery that pointed out FRC game design has more complicated and contradictory requirements than some NASA project he'd worked on. While teams might not have known that frisbees would work, the GDC didn't pick it out of their ear and say "well, they'll figure it out". They knew, at the very least via the same way we all did by kickoff Sunday: by searching "frisbee launch" on YouTube. (They also do some prototyping themselves, though apparently they're not things we'd want on robots.) I've wanted to do football for years*, and I think we could, but the GDC would have to put serious thought into how they can interact with the bots & field.
The GDC under- and over-estimates us sometimes, but never forget they've carefully created this world. Using teams' predictions of previous games to demonstrate that teams can manage anything is a circular argument, and cuts out a lot of the work the GDC does to make them handle-able in the first place.
*Apparently Aiden, the head referee (on the GDC) has also wished this for years. There's a reason they keep saying no, but maybe next year...
Garrett.d.w
25-06-2013, 20:28
Wrong, please see 2008
I feel that a trackball would have done better if it was used in the game differently :)
Ex: adding a dodge ball element to overdrive, though I feel like that wouldn't exactly foster gracious professionalism :p .
I feel that a trackball would have done better if it was used in the game differently :)
Ex: adding a dodge ball element to overdrive, though I feel like that wouldn't exactly foster gracious professionalism :p .
I think you stumbled upon a new game idea :P .
Granted, the way FIRST would have to implement it is using targets like in the 2010 game, just stuck on robots.
Now that I think about it, that sounds a lot like Lunacy without the annoying regolith and without trailers. I'll pass.
Robert Cawthon
26-06-2013, 09:26
So to FIRST please keep in mind that we will figure out what to do with any game piece you throw at us. There is no bad game piece and there is nothing impossible when it comes to using a game piece. We will figure out what needs to be accomplished to utilize your game piece to its fullest potential.
Actually, I do not think water balloons would be a good game piece. Just sayin'.
arizonafoxx
26-06-2013, 09:36
I hope you haven't stumbled upon the 2016 game thread...
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116295&highlight=2016+game
I believe trying to come up with possible game scenarios is a great brainstorming exercise. It gets students thinking of creative ways they could solve theoretical games. It is a little distracting that half the posts every year suggest a water game but some of them are really good and sound like a blast to play.
Wrong, please see 2008
What was wrong with the 2008 game piece? Just because you didn't like it doesn't make it a bad game piece. There is a difference between a bad game piece and a game piece that is disliked. A bad game piece would be something that can't be manipulated by a robot and used to score points. It would be like asking a a Vex robot to carry a pile of 50 bricks to a scoring zone. This would not be possible since the transmissions that Vex robots have a available are not capable of carrying 50 bricks in the duration of a match. What was wrong with the track ball from 2008. Yes it was heavy but it was still utilized very nicely by many robots. Yes 2008 was an overall unpopular game but that does not mean we need to cast the game piece as bad. I for one hope to see that track ball again one day.
Also I never said the GDC chose a Frisbee without first testing. What I said is no matter what they chose FIRST teams will step up to the plate and deliver a good season. It doesn't matter how hard a game piece is to manipulate FIRST teams can figure it out. So using a football to play a FIRST game is completely possible.
jwallace15
30-06-2013, 16:50
Just thought of this one...
Golf?
Golf isn't as boring as people say it is. There's so much strategy behind it (how hard to hit the ball, what angle + wind, which club).
HP can switch clubs for the robot.
I think it'd be interesting.
how about they bring back the lunacy trailers only they only have one peg in the center and during tele op you try to stack inner tubes in the opposing teams trailers.
glennword
02-07-2013, 17:32
I think FIRST will try to get away from tradition in the coming years. With the stacking/shooting paradigm having been in place for a while, with a few exceptions, I think the GDC will break from the pattern. Think about the bridges in 2012 and the pyramid jungle gym in 2013. It seems like they are pushing towards more robust, mobile robots that can overcome large physical obstacles. My prediction for 2014 is a bumpy or mobile field, with the main objective being to transport a large or heavy object from one side of the field to the other, and then placing/shooting it in a goal. Autonomous might include some shooting/placing of secondary game pieces, and endgame might be a king of the hill type objective. Anyways, I think there will be a focus on overcoming obstacles of various kinds, like hills/bumps or a climbing objective.
Rebound Rumble with Regolith-covered bouncy octahedrons.
What it FIRST gives us all three phases of water such as regolith floors (ice) have to pushe an object with wind (air) and miniboat races on tracks (water). The miniboats would be the end game the "main game" would he a hockey type game and the pushing with air would be the auto mode.
Dragonking
04-07-2013, 15:23
Human players get water bottles for every disc they can score in a basketball hoop. That's my water game.
kuraikou
04-07-2013, 15:33
Rebound Rumble with Regolith-covered bouncy octahedrons.
No, that is the kind of things that nightmares are made of.
Hypnotoad
05-07-2013, 14:48
Anyone think of non sport related games? Tetris maybe?
I would say, based on past experience, that the game piece will be roughly spherical for 2014. Whether or not it actually qualifies as a ball remains to be seen.
Past experience in question:
1997, non-spherical, followed by 1998, spherical.
1999, non-spherical, followed by 2000, spherical.
2003, non-spherical, followed by 2004, spherical.
2005, non-spherical, followed by 2006, spherical.
2007, non-spherical, followed by 2008, spherical.
2011, non-spherical, followed by 2012, spherical.
2013 had a non-spherical game object; therefore, if past experience is anything to go by, 2014 will have a spherical game object. (Also to be noted is that odd game pieces have tended to occur in odd years, while spheres of various types have tended to occur in even years, with 2001 and 2009 being the exceptions.)
apples000
05-07-2013, 16:17
There will be inflatable balls that cannot be thrown, and a step, bump, or strairs that robots must cross multiple times, like 2010/2012. Like the pyramid this year, there will be a large obstacle to overcome.
Dragonking
05-07-2013, 21:04
cannon balls:)
Chadfrom308
07-07-2013, 02:10
How about a sand based game? That would just be the best, talk about locked up motors and gearboxes!
jwallace15
07-07-2013, 11:27
Rebound Rumble with Regolith-covered bouncy octahedrons.
Shooting these would be simple: Since a typical shooter with wheels would be out of the question due to friction issues, we will use air cannons! Or catapults/trebuchets.
Almost sounds like Punkin Chunkin! Except we could use a typical shooter with pumpkins.
Rebound Rumble with Regolith-covered bouncy octahedrons.
And it's a water game. :D
Michael Hill
11-07-2013, 11:13
I'd like to see a "carnival" game. You know...all the games you see at carnivals that are slightly rigged. That would be pretty fun IMO.
1683cadder
11-07-2013, 12:40
Hockey with hovercraft robots.
themccannman
11-07-2013, 13:06
Hockey with hovercraft robots.
If they ever do a regolith field again hockey is the only way to go.
Orion.DeYoe
11-07-2013, 23:42
Well, I've put it off as long as I can (this is going to be long).
So let me start by reiterating the things that are important in a FIRST game. These are the things that FIRST needs to include and seems to be trying to include.
The most important aspect is having strategy choices. Dean and Woody love to make parallels between the game and real life. Ultimate Ascent was the pinnacle of this so far, but the GDC can achieve more if they think through it and are very objective.
Another very important thing is how fun the game is to watch. How fun the game is to watch relates directly to the amount of activity on the field which also poses a challenge for scouters.
As well as having an entertaining game to attract a crowd, having a game that can be explained easily is very important. It also benefits teams. Having a game you can understand as simply as “get the balls into the baskets” helps peoples’ comprehension rates and allows them to slowly “sink” into the more subtle rules and twists of the game and approach it in an organized manner. This goes back to work well with understanding how to put together an effective strategy.
Some people have been saying that FIRST needs to eliminate safe zones and allow more defense. This is a bad idea. You have two ways to win: Win by tearing your opponent down or win by rising above them. Which one do you think is a better example to set for thousands of students entering their next stage of life? FIRST is (and should be) making a trend of carefully balancing scoring and defense. The scoring is the main focus and the defense functions as a way to keep teams from getting lazy in their designs and strategies.
That brings up my next point. FIRST is going a great job promoting more robust robot designs. They should continue this trend (and probably will).
So, the popular suggestion seems to be hockey. I really like this idea. It would be unlike anything FIRST has implemented before. Hopefully it would involve actually hitting a puck around the field (like real hockey), as opposed to picking them up and depositing them in a goal. I wouldn’t have a problem with them bringing back some sort of very slick surface as long as the only purpose it serves is to allow the pucks to slide and not to impede robot movement. Look at professional hockey, the players have no problem moving around the field. In fact they move around a lot faster on ice than most people do off the ice. FIRST needs to allow us to solve the problem of maneuverability on the field with different types of wheels and materials making contact with the floor (not make us use those dumb hard plastic wheels). Oh, and don’t even think about making me put skates or skis on my robot.
The other popular game is some sort of stacking. FIRST had a REALLY bad experience with this in 2003 so they seem to be really shying away from it. They’re going to have to face it some year but if that year is 2014? We’ll have to see.
They don’t have to use cubes for stacking, but I really think they should. I don’t want to see those stupid tubs that when tipped over don’t stack! They also need to really get the scoring right. Forget all this crap about multiplier stacks. Do it right. My team hosts a summer VEX day camp every year. This year we had them stack wooden blocks. Our scoring was that each cube (when stacked in a special zone) was worth two more points than the one below it. So a stack of 1 is 1 point, a stack of 2 is 1 + (1+2) = 4, a stack of 4 is 1 + (1+2) + (1+2+2) + (1+2+2+2) = 16. Strangely this also means that a stack is worth its height (in cubes) squared. I didn’t notice it until after the fact.
Let’s talk about the glow in the dark tape measures. Try not focusing on the glow in the dark part. I would bet that it’s not important (it’s probably a Red Herring to distract you). However I could be wrong.
Dark fields are out of the question because they’ll make the game hard to watch in two ways. One because the spectators won’t be able to see, and two because the driving won’t be as good due to the decreased visibility. This also might result in some robots just sitting there because their drivers can’t see to safely drive them around.
I would really like to see the cylinder rule go away. Or at least be increased in size.
I think the chances of another shooting game are slim. It could happen, but I don’t want it to.
As for endgame, I think that minibots may make a return eventually. But I think it will still be a few years. They’re weren’t very fun to watch. And there wasn’t much creativity or flexibility involved in them.
FIRST hasn’t done a good ‘ol king of the hill for a while, so that could make a return sometime soon. It could also be coupled with a chin-up bar like in 2003.
A unique endgame that I would like to see implemented is climbing to the top of a rectangular pillar. They would just be robust boxes (with no lips, grooves, bars or any other place to grip) anchored to the floor. There would be several heights available with different point values associated.
For personal preference. I would like to see the concept from 2009, of goals attached to your opponents brought back and made to work better with a more standard field surface.
Another thing I would like to see is several hundred tennis balls on the field which have to be launched/dumped in huge quantities into horizontal goals (like the hoops from 2012). This would be quite amazing to watch I think.
Tell me what you think! :D
Another thing I would like to see is several hundred tennis balls on the field which have to be launched/dumped in huge quantities into horizontal goals (like the hoops from 2012). This would be quite amazing to watch I think.
I would love to see a game where there are no rules as to how many game objects you can hold at one time during the match. I also think you are correct when you say it would be amazing to see say 100 tennis balls all being dropped into a goal in one swift action.
jman4747
12-07-2013, 00:23
I would like to see a game where the robots have to actively work with each other and coordinate to accomplish the main goal like the bridges in 2012. So far each robot in an alliance doesn't need the others to score points for that alliance. It's 3 robots working individually to score points for the alliance not 3 robots working together to score points for that alliance. Other than the bridges in rebound rumble I don't recall robots on an alliance having to work together to manipulate a game piece and or field element to accumulate points.
I would like to see a game where the robots have to actively work with each other and coordinate to accomplish the main goal like the bridges in 2012. So far each robot in an alliance doesn't need the others to score points for that alliance. It's 3 robots working individually to score points for the alliance not 3 robots working together to score points for that alliance. Other than the bridges in rebound rumble I don't recall robots on an alliance having to work together to manipulate a game piece and or field element to accumulate points.
You weren't around for 2010 (suspensions--one robot hanging off another that was already hanging--though those weren't used often if at all), 2007 (one or two robots climbing on the third alliance member virtually every match) or 2001 (oops, didn't mention the 4v0 bridge-balancing year, ignore that). 2008 and 1999 required coordination for some items; 2010 had some teamwork like passing from one zone to another.
Here is why you'll rarely see that, and why it'll even more rarely be the main main goal:
Random qualifiers.
If you have an item that requires more than two robots to accomplish it, you need to have it be important enough that everybody builds for it to some extent. Even for only two robots, you need only a subset to not build for it. Now, this isn't as important in eliminations, when the alliances are selected and stay together, but in quals...
Let's assume that y'all are paired with two random robots in the first match. You can handle half of the goal (or a third if it takes all three robots); one partner is a no-show because they're trying to trace something and miss their call (or their robot is still being inspected). The other partner is a Brave Little Toaster, AKA defense only (assuming the task isn't something a boxbot with no other mods can do). If that's a major goal you need to accomplish, you are stuck. And I do mean stuck. If you get lucky, your opponents are in a similar situation, so it balances out. If not, you draw two of the local powerhouses, and lose the match badly.
And, I point you to the "worth it" part. Triple balances were worth serious points in 2012; Co-op worth a lot too. The time before that that teamwork was required to accomplish the end goal--from all three robots-- was 2005: 10 points for all three robots being behind the end line. I can't recall a SINGLE instance of those 10 points being awarded. (For 2006 and 2007, a staggered point system was used: X robots in Y position worth Z points, X+1 or Y+1 worth Z+A, etc.)
Incidentally, the years and game elements that required the most coordination and cooperation tend to be some of the least-liked game elements, if not the least-liked years.
For Orion, you missed one CRITICAL element: It has to challenge the skilled veterans while still being easy enough for the rookies (and unskilled veterans, should there be any). This is a stated GDC objective. (Oh, and please don't swap the 2003 and 2004 games--it gets confusing after so many years, even for those who played them.)
Me personally? How about unlimited small balls on the robot that CANNOT be shot (preferably due to field design), but must be dumped into various goals somehow, a la 2000 or maybe 2002 (and recycling would be optional)? Or stacking traffic cones, another perennial favorite?
Orion.DeYoe
12-07-2013, 10:44
For Orion, you missed one CRITICAL element: It has to challenge the skilled veterans while still being easy enough for the rookies (and unskilled veterans, should there be any). This is a stated GDC objective. (Oh, and please don't swap the 2003 and 2004 games--it gets confusing after so many years, even for those who played them.)
*Facepalm* Yeah I meant 2003. It's fixed now.
That's a good point. I kind of assumed it in the strategy choices part.
FIRST does want the games to be equally challenging for veteran teams and rookies, but it doesn't seem to affect every area of the game. Interestingly enough it does not seem to have a large effect on the game pieces. The balls from 2006 were very similar to 2012 and the tubes from 2007 and 2011 (not to mention the beach-balls that FIRST used extensively in their early years). That being said, we can be sure that next year won't be frisbees again.
FIRST levels the playing field by making games where it's hard (or impossible) for a robot to do everything.
Thanks for pointing that out. I thought I had covered that.
Justin Shelley
12-07-2013, 11:21
One thing seems for certain to me though, FIRST will keep an easy scoring system and a spectator friendly design. If FIRST is truly trying to be the varsity sport of the mind, which I fully think they are, then they will follow in the steps of varsity sports in which spectators are a huge part! :cool:
I'm not trying to say this is a bad thing because I actually think that this is an awesome thing!!
Orion.DeYoe
12-07-2013, 12:16
One thing seems for certain to me though, FIRST will keep an easy scoring system and a spectator friendly design. If FIRST is truly trying to be the varsity sport of the mind, which I fully think they are, then they will follow in the steps of varsity sports in which spectators are a huge part! :cool:
I'm not trying to say this is a bad thing because I actually think that this is an awesome thing!!
For sure!! I like to invite as many of my friends to watch our regionals as possible. Every year that goes by it get's easier for them to do so as well as more entertaining. I think it's great!
Bryce2471
12-07-2013, 17:28
I really want to see a game in witch the robots can't touch an important game piece. Something like a large multiplier ball that must be moved by throwing smaller game pieces at it.
Rynocorn
12-07-2013, 18:57
Well, I've put it off as long as I can (this is going to be long).
The other popular game is some sort of stacking. FIRST had a REALLY bad experience with this in 2003 so they seem to be really shying away from it. They’re going to have to face it some year but if that year is 2014? We’ll have to see.
They don’t have to use cubes for stacking, but I really think they should. I don’t want to see those stupid tubs that when tipped over don’t stack! They also need to really get the scoring right. Forget all this crap about multiplier stacks. Do it right. My team hosts a summer VEX day camp every year. This year we had them stack wooden blocks. Our scoring was that each cube (when stacked in a special zone) was worth two more points than the one below it. So a stack of 1 is 1 point, a stack of 2 is 1 + (1+2) = 4, a stack of 4 is 1 + (1+2) + (1+2+2) + (1+2+2+2) = 16. Strangely this also means that a stack is worth its height (in cubes) squared. I didn’t notice it until after the fact.
I think the chances of another shooting game are slim. It could happen, but I don’t want it to.
A unique endgame that I would like to see implemented is climbing to the top of a rectangular pillar. They would just be robust boxes (with no lips, grooves, bars or any other place to grip) anchored to the floor. There would be several heights available with different point values associated.
Another thing I would like to see is several hundred tennis balls on the field which have to be launched/dumped in huge quantities into horizontal goals (like the hoops from 2012). This would be quite amazing to watch I think.
Tell me what you think! :D
This sounds like the game I proposed earlier in the thread!! I'm glad we are on the same page, (does that mean we are right?)
strangestat
17-07-2013, 01:47
For those thinking water game and sealed talons... I present a new product andymark is selling: http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2521.htm
For those thinking water game and sealed talons... I present a new product andymark is selling: http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2521.htm
Looks interesting. Hopefully FIRST will make this legal in future years. It would be good for teams that find it difficult to afford to put more motors on their bot because they cant afford the speed controllers to go with them.
mdiradoorian
22-07-2013, 13:17
For those thinking water game and sealed talons... I present a new product andymark is selling: http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2521.htm
In my opinion Andymark can sell anything they want to for the general publc to purchase and it has nothing to do with FIRST. I am completely against the water game idea because think seriously, many teams have a great difficulty with robots on land, majority of teams will fail miserably with a water game. If you want a water game with robots join a MATE team. A water game would be to costly to put on and set up for six weeks of competition, plus Championships and many offseason events like Battlecry, IRI, Texas Round Up or Battle at the Border.
More stuff: some viable, mostly outrageous as thought starters. . . .
SIMULATE water like a ball pit. It provides “viscosity”, and you don’t want “water” in your mechanism so you should make your robot “waterproof”. But how do you manage all of that “water”?
CURLING: with recent Canadian domination, the rest of the world should rise to the challenge. AND taa-daa, the return or REGOLITH ! ! !
Think of carney games: like hoops on a post (turn 2011 by pi/2 radians); landing a game object on an elevated platform (similar to the 2013 top of the pyramid).
Something like “Score-Four” with a 2007 spoiler for fun. Enter at top or sides. . . . Multiple scoring sites, different from 2007. Or, just stack tubes and “Score-Four’.
Think of traditional birthday games: drop clothespins into a bottle; pin the tail on the donkey (no camera guidance—dead reckoning)?
Transport a stack of something like wait staff racing with trays of filled glasses. The taller the stack to the objective, the more points are awarded. So a stack of height one still gets a point. Now for unrelated things to stack: fribee on a track ball. Wait . . . . . TRACK BALL on a FRISBEE. . . .
Not sure anything from a rodeo would apply. . . .
Feather bowling: at least the game piece is somewhat irregular. Bocce ball? At least no regolith.
Tiddlywinks? Pitchin’ pennies (or some other disk). Marbles?
mdiradoorian
22-07-2013, 14:32
In my opinion the game for next year should be themed off of the Olympics. Maybe one event off the olympics, like hockey and I know Canadian teams love that idea.
Mitchell1714
22-07-2013, 16:16
It's been 4 years so breakaway 2.0. The new scoring system is much more complex. Balls from the middle and far zone are counted as more points(2 and 3 points). There could also be a third goal on a side that is well off the ground as a double score goal. For the end game each Alliance throws in one uber ball that's worth 3x a normal . there's a lot of ways to update well known games. And it's just an idea
evanperryg
23-07-2013, 11:56
Curling and the endgame is stacking robots :D
Can't see curling working well (sounds like 2010 with rocks instead of balls) but stacking robots would be cool. Big challenge for mechanical team (and electrical; I can see mass graves of motor controllers)
Overdrive on regolith with Hills
http://funny-animated-gifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/michael-scott-no.gif
Last year at Champs they said that they started planing games 2 years in advance to insure they have enough time to get game pieces. However, they also said because how well received Rebound Rumble was that they completely redid the 2013 game. So unless they are going to redo the 2014 game, they should be planing the 2015 game after Champs.
As far as I can tell, 2013 was even better received. It seems like the biggest difference between 2012/2013 and previous games was the integration of the endgame into the rest of the gameplay. (example: Instead of just being there during auto, the pyramids dictated how many discs your bot could start with and defined a very structured set of starting bot positions)
Justin Shelley
23-07-2013, 12:20
For 2014 I hope to see another game that is easy to follow and will be exciting to the general public. I would also like to see a major change to something that would make everyone on the same playing level again instead of teams that have had years to master certain traits that carry over to each game. Maybe a slick floor :) Maybe someone can help me understand but a "water game" is confusing and why is there such a huge push for one??
Alpha Beta
23-07-2013, 13:57
Maybe someone can help me understand but a "water game" is confusing and why is there such a huge push for one??
Just a running joke on Chief Delphi. Here's a video highlighting that and a few other things from Exploding Bacon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ_mdx8_6A4).
http://www.amazon.com/Franklin-Sports-Tennis-Balls-Pack-Glow-In-The-Dark/dp/B0091DMDPM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1374605035&sr=8-5&keywords=glow+in+the+dark+ball
hmmmm.......
there is also a glow in the dark bocce ball.....
Garrett.d.w
23-07-2013, 21:49
http://www.amazon.com/Franklin-Sports-Tennis-Balls-Pack-Glow-In-The-Dark/dp/B0091DMDPM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1374605035&sr=8-5&keywords=glow+in+the+dark+ball
hmmmm.......
there is also a glow in the dark bocce ball.....
We almost bought these for bunnybots this year :) (ping pong ball hoarding game)
AllieS4246
28-07-2013, 13:48
I'd like to start seeing mixes of past games. Combine components of 2 games and fuze them. For example, blend Lunacy and Over Drive. The robots will race in circles and while racing try to score points in opponents trailers. It would be a way to look at what worked in the past and blending. Now, would my mechanical team be happy, no, but it would be an interesting concept.
AllieS4246
28-07-2013, 14:21
you are probably correct. one of the members on my team said last year during the regional that next year's theme will be frisbee (which it was), and said that next years will be something related to golf/hockey
I believe that golf would be almost more likely than Hockey, but I'd say both are good guesses. The sport games are going over so well.
Robert Cawthon
31-07-2013, 14:12
Not sure anything from a rodeo would apply. . . .
How about barrel racing? With the minibot? :D
what about a rescue game? that seems like a good idea
Jay Burnett
04-08-2013, 17:43
So, the popular suggestion seems to be hockey. I really like this idea. It would be unlike anything FIRST has implemented before. Hopefully it would involve actually hitting a puck around the field (like real hockey), as opposed to picking them up and depositing them in a goal. I wouldn't have a problem with them bringing back some sort of very slick surface as long as the only purpose it serves is to allow the pucks to slide and not to impede robot movement. Look at professional hockey, the players have no problem moving around the field. In fact they move around a lot faster on ice than most people do off the ice. FIRST needs to allow us to solve the problem of maneuverability on the field with different types of wheels and materials making contact with the floor (not make us use those dumb hard plastic wheels). Oh, and don’t even think about making me put skates or skis on my robot.
I think hockey would be a fun game to design for,(receiving the puck and shooting it out again) and it would also be very fun to watch. Because i know the unspeakable year 2009 has scarred many of you for life with the regolith feilds, hkey could be played without changing the floor material by adding rollers onto the bottom of the pucks. If the game is played like real hokey, there would be lots of contact and fighting for control of the puck, so defending the opposing alliance's robot away from the puck would be a valuable skill. It's also something that the BLTs and rookies could focus on and still be a valuable alliance partner. That said, the veterans and really good rookies (hopefully us this season) would focus on puck handling and scoring.
To keep play going after a score, one robot on the alliance that just got scored on would load a puck from the human player and then play would resume. The rules would be set so that members of the scoring alliance must be in their zone within 5 seconds of a goal happening, and can return to the other side after the puck is brought into the field of play.
Autonomous mode could be each robot shooting a preloaded puck into their goal. Robots would be lined up across from each other like this ~_~_~_. The end game is a little difficult, i can't come up with anything right now..... maybee the end game would be dropped because scoring would take such a long time with any passable defence.
That's my opinion, I hope the guys on the GDC read cd and pick this one up:D
AllieS4246
05-08-2013, 14:59
I think hockey would be a fun game to design for,(receiving the puck and shooting it out again) and it would also be very fun to watch. Because i know the unspeakable year 2009 has scarred many of you for life with the regolith feilds, hkey could be played without changing the floor material by adding rollers onto the bottom of the pucks. If the game is played like real hokey, there would be lots of contact and fighting for control of the puck, so defending the opposing alliance's robot away from the puck would be a valuable skill. It's also something that the BLTs and rookies could focus on and still be a valuable alliance partner. That said, the veterans and really good rookies (hopefully us this season) would focus on puck handling and scoring.
To keep play going after a score, one robot on the alliance that just got scored on would load a puck from the human player and then play would resume. The rules would be set so that members of the scoring alliance must be in their zone within 5 seconds of a goal happening, and can return to the other side after the puck is brought into the field of play.
Autonomous mode could be each robot shooting a preloaded puck into their goal. Robots would be lined up across from each other like this ~_~_~_. The end game is a little difficult, i can't come up with anything right now..... maybee the end game would be dropped because scoring would take such a long time with any passable defence.
That's my opinion, I hope the guys on the GDC read cd and pick this one up:D
I am a huge hockey fan (I love my St. Louis Blues!) and would love to see a hockey FRC game. Unfortunately, I don't think that it could be played like a real hockey game.
I think if it were hockey the regaloth would be a must. In hockey the ice is a major component on the game, and taking it out by using rollers wouldn't be much of a comparison.
Defense and checking is a huge variable in hockey, but being able to make a fight in FRC? that would be hard, when no one can get a 5 minute penalty or break a jaw. And everytime there is an incident will the refs stop the game? I doubt it.
Also, with the standard format of a 2 and 1/2 ish minute long game, it would be hard for much scoring to really occur using only one puck.
As much as I wish real hockey could be played, I just don't think the current situation is a very good fit. Now, if they played it Rebound Rumble style, this would be a great game. :)
saikiranra
05-08-2013, 15:12
Unless the pucks are Frisbee sized, I doubt we will be playing a hockey game next year. The GDC wants the games to kind of be self-explanatory and easy to understand to the public. Although hockey is an easy to understand and fun to watch sport in real life, I doubt that it would translate well to robots.
Caleb Sykes
05-08-2013, 20:16
I think that some little kids games could be fun:
Hide and seek
Tag
Red light, green light
Freeze tag
:p
I just have fun trying to imagine these.
bbradf44
05-08-2013, 23:16
What about Lazar Tag? With some kind of twist maybe for an end game or autonomous period
Red light, green light
hysterical - I don't want to be on the other end of the field getting tackled by the robots though....
What about a version of simon says...autonomous would be crazy. a specific set of lights go and the robot has to take a certain position, move an arm, etc.
My favorite idea for a game:
Two separate sides, autonomous I haven't figured out, but during teleop a big black curtain comes up between the two sides of the field; your alliance has to stack boxes really tall on your own side; then, during the last 30 seconds the curtains come down and balls are put onto the field by your human player through some form of shoot that passively puts them on the field. your robot collects them and has to throw them at the opponents stacks of boxes, your robot cannot reach over to the other side of the field; also some other thing to do during the last 30 seconds so a good alliance will have someone else doing the third thing such as hanging on a high bar, flipping over, whatever. Two robots doing something with the third throwing balls to eliminate the other alliances score. There is not going to be a lot of robot robot hard smashing contact, but it would be kind-of cool to have the element of surprise once the curtain falls. Your team gets points for how high the boxes are stacked maybe exponentially or doubled. Depends upon the number of boxes available. Stacked boxes are a minimum of one box on top of another, hence stacked.
Oh yeah, during the last 5 seconds you can shoot the firehose at the other boxes...hence the water game. :)
Johnnybukkel
09-08-2013, 08:33
What about a Capture the Flag style of game? I'm not sure how it could be executed but it's an idea at least.
I think that some little kids games could be fun:
Hide and seek
Tag
Red light, green light
Freeze tag
:p
I just have fun trying to imagine these.
^^^ THIS is brilliant. GDC please consider. :eek:
1. Easy to understand for the crowd
2. Requires good strategies
3. Exciting and fast-paced
4. Short duration
Love it.
saikiranra
09-08-2013, 13:05
^^^ THIS is brilliant. GDC please consider. :eek:
1. Easy to understand for the crowd
2. Requires good strategies
3. Exciting and fast-paced
4. Short duration
Love it.
But the problem is that it requires little to no innovation. A good driver with a good, fast drive train is literally the solution to all these games. Sure more teams will take up mechanum or swerve drive, but it squashes a creative spirit.
That being said, tag would be fun to play. :D
With some twists for auton and endgame, it can be doable. And some field elements to make teleop not straightforward.
nicholsjj
10-08-2013, 02:03
Hockey would be fun.
Reuse the frisbees from this year as the puck.
Reuse the regolith field type from 2009.
Add in the bumps from 2010 as the centerline and zone lines.
Have a "lift the cup" type end game where alliances have to lift each other up like in 2007.
Each alliance can have a "goalie" robot that can shoot frisbees from a feeding slot.
evanperryg
11-08-2013, 13:38
I'd like to start seeing mixes of past games.
The field has bumps like 2010, on the 2009 floor with the 2008 balls. Robots must put the balls on a rack held up by chains. The endgame is minibots climbing a pyramid that is balanced on a ramp that the robots must balance.
On the topic of hockey, I think it would be really cool (Canada would win it, of course). However, I seriously doubt that they would do 3 shooting games in a row and the ball/no ball pattern predicts that the next main game piece will be a ball. The 2009 floors, though everyone hates them(and for good reason) presented a very unique challenge that can't be matched by things like bumps in the floor. I agree, it was definitely not the best game they've come up with but I won't say that it did not present a very unique challenge.
I also would like to see a 1992 reboot:p
evanperryg
11-08-2013, 14:06
I got my money on a water game. Think about it, the regular pushing, kicking, throwing, putting on pegs is getting old and older more experienced teams have a huge advantage. Granted they will always have somewhat of an advantage, but no frc team has done a water based game, in theory this could put more teams on the same playing field. And besides I think a water game is far overdue, were ready for a new element :)
If a watergame does happen, it won't be an entire field made of water. Sure, we have sealed electrical components but the task of trying to get a 120lb robot to both be able to float and move around would be ridiculous. The field itself would be expensive to produce, and would weigh a ton with all that water. If there is water, it will be something like a kiddie pool in the middle of the field that robots collect game pieces from.
On the topic of hockey, I think it would be really cool (Canada would win it, of course). However, I seriously doubt that they would do 3 shooting games in a row and the ball/no ball pattern predicts that the next main game piece will be a ball.
Street Hockey. It follows the Ball/no ball pattern you have mentioned and is still hockey. They could even change the 30 second whistle to a guy yelling "CAR!!!" to make it that much more authentic :p.
Orion.DeYoe
11-08-2013, 20:21
how about they bring back the lunacy trailers only they only have one peg in the center and during tele op you try to stack inner tubes in the opposing teams trailers.
That would be awesome. It was decently easy to pick up and hang a tube in 2011 but if that peg was moving around the field... Teams would have to come up with creative designs to be able to stack tubes while moving or quickly enough that the opposing robot can't get away.
Orion.DeYoe
11-08-2013, 20:38
Unless the pucks are Frisbee sized, I doubt we will be playing a hockey game next year. The GDC wants the games to kind of be self-explanatory and easy to understand to the public. Although hockey is an easy to understand and fun to watch sport in real life, I doubt that it would translate well to robots.
I just thought of something. I have been really skeptical of people's "conclusions" based on the gift that was given to the Dean's List winners (they've come up with some pretty crazy stuff, mostly involving water... lol). I think that everyone's taking it too literally.
However I think it could shed some light (no pun intended) on a hockey game. What if the pucks glowed in the dark or had a decently bright light on them? This would help the viewers see the pucks as well as the robot operators. It could also be set up in a way that it glows in a color that the robots can track.
Also, I don't see any way that hockey could be played with only one puck. FIRST never makes sports games with the standard number of gamepieces. There would almost certainly be lots of pucks on the field.
Orion.DeYoe
11-08-2013, 20:41
What about a Capture the Flag style of game? I'm not sure how it could be executed but it's an idea at least.
I absolutely love this game. I've thought of turning it into a FIRST game myself.
Jay Burnett
12-08-2013, 17:49
What about a Capture the Flag style of game? I'm not sure how it could be executed but it's an idea at least.
I predict many stripped gears and broken claws going on with this. Brace yourselves, Mechanical team!
kuraikou
12-08-2013, 22:44
I predict many stripped gears and broken claws going on with this. Brace yourselves, Mechanical team!
This would definitely be interesting, it would require some teams to make a robot that was very fast to gain points.
I was thinking like a game where if your robot is within a certain zone you get points, and some of the zones for more points would be in hard to get to places, like on top of a bump.
Sorry everyone... but the regolith will not be coming back ever. Reason is that it was found out after champs that the dust kicked up from it is directly related to emphysema and other health problems.
Team3266Spencer
13-08-2013, 16:20
I don't know what the actual game will be like, but since FIRST handed out the glow-in-the-dark merchandise I have had a very strong feeling that drivers will be driving with the visual help of an on-board camera. Perhaps the game will be made to work well with relying on sensor and other feedback from your robot.
bbradf44
13-08-2013, 16:44
I don't know what the actual game will be like, but since FIRST handed out the glow-in-the-dark merchandise I have had a very strong feeling that drivers will be driving with the visual help of an on-board camera. Perhaps the game will be made to work well with relying on sensor and other feedback from your robot.
I think it would be cool to have the driver station away from the field or set up in such a way where the drivers can't see the field and have to rely on their on board cameras and sensors to play the game
Team3266Spencer
13-08-2013, 16:45
I think it would be cool to have the driver station away from the field or set up in such a way where the drivers can't see the field and have to rely on their on board cameras and sensors to play the game
Me too. I think if this is what FIRST is implying, the 2014 game could be a lot of fun to compete in.
However, I seriously doubt that they would do 3 shooting games in a row and the ball/no ball pattern predicts that the next main game piece will be a ball.
Unfortunately, I'd have to disagree. Personally, as someone obsessed with FIRST, I am sick and tired or the shooting thing. I want something new, something complicated, and something with optional cooperation (note thats note coopertition). Just as a side note, I doubt FIRST limits themselves to a set pattern. These are people, not programs. They just like to mix it up every year, as would I. If they had some stellar idea for a non ball item for 2014, I think they'd use it...
2012 was alright, shooting was quite difficult, the cooperation on the bridges was nice, but the coopertition bridge? That threw a wrench into a lot of strategy (and scouting for that matter). It was SO important, and the way simply balancing with an opponent, which was not that hard, could double your take from the match was way to much credit for a tiny act. Regardless, I think it forced teams into a hostile position, where you could easily just screw another team on purpose to take a win, or if you honestly couldnt do it the opponent would suspect you of mal-intent...
But it was exciting, and I think FIRST liked that for once non robotics people could easily understand the game, follow it, and watch a obvious showdown between opponents on the edge of their seat. Face it, flying projectiles and buzzer shots from across the field is more exciting than hanging pool inner-tubes on a peg.
Fast Forward to 2013. The game is a shooting game again. Teleop and Auton are pretty much refurbished game modes from 2012. Hoops are vertical, large, and rectangular. Basketballs are now Frisbees. In Auton, have the robots start somewhere and give them more points if they make the shots. There are more game pieces somewhere accessible on the field, but you must drive to get them. Its the same. But it is much easier. In 2012, Teleop was hard and End Game was easy. Now, Teleop is easy (much easier than I think most of us initially thought) and the End Game was hard. Shooting discs? Still exciting and a crowd pleaser. End Game? Now even more exciting with robots ascending a large metal structure, so high and dangerously that they must be repelled down. But now direct cooperation is gone. People dont climb together or pass the game piece. Its a very separable game, and robots can pretty much go about their business on the field (of course there are exceptions, like how to handle a FCS...). I liked having to actually work out a team plan that didn't take place in que.
Now what will we see in 2014? Well, following the excitement trend, it has to be spectacular. And shooting is really cool. If they kept it twice now, they obviously dont mind repeating tactics year to year. Why would they stop at 2?
I don't know what the actual game will be like, but since FIRST handed out the glow-in-the-dark merchandise I have had a very strong feeling that drivers will be driving with the visual help of an on-board camera. Perhaps the game will be made to work well with relying on sensor and other feedback from your robot.
Now that would be cool. This wont happen, but it would be awesome if they instituted some kind of LPS (L for Local, instead of G for Global) . Get your coords on the field at anytime... Programmer heaven.
Bryce2471
28-08-2013, 02:12
I would love to see a game where there is no limit to how tall your robot can be. A little like the 2012 ftc game, but you don't score points just by being tall. Some how the taller your robot gets the more advantage you have for scoring.
NanoCollins
28-08-2013, 12:13
Hmm... My random guess is hockey.
I think it would make sense to have a hockey game. They have had shooting games for the past couple of years and that would be a cool change up. Plus there is a great chance to make alliances work together well with a hockey theme.
I think it would make sense to have a hockey game. They have had shooting games for the past couple of years and that would be a cool change up. Plus there is a great chance to make alliances work together well with a hockey theme.
A hockey theme would be great. But full out hockey with a tiny (if not one) amount of pucks would be unbearable. You would be completely dependent on your alliance. I really would not like my entire chance at winning to be based on a random number generator
I think that some little kids games could be fun:
Hide and seek
Tag
Red light, green light
Freeze tag
:p
I just have fun trying to imagine these.
Moving gaming peices like giant balls or moveable turntables in the center with game pieces that a random judge can control.
just some crazy ideas
I'd like to start seeing mixes of past games. Combine components of 2 games and fuze them. For example, blend Lunacy and Over Drive. The robots will race in circles and while racing try to score points in opponents trailers. It would be a way to look at what worked in the past and blending. Now, would my mechanical team be happy, no, but it would be an interesting concept.
Here's a (horrible) idea for a mix.
Take the stacking/knocking down opponents stacks/figuring out what to do with a bin on its side from 03 and add the regolith from 09. Then, for the end game add the goals from 2001, but instead of balancing them on a bridge, pull up the robot+goals on a chin up bar, like from 04. You can either stack the boxes on the ground, or get 5x as many points by stacking in the goals. Oh, and don't forget to bring back tetras, trackballs, and trailers!
Damiaen_Florian
05-09-2013, 21:30
Quick question, did anyone predict the game for this year (2013) to any measurable amount of accuracy?
This years senior class has seen Ultimate Ascent, Rebound Rumble and Logomotion, they have never played a game that had had a robot managing more than four game objects at once. Maybe they will get to see a "large" capacity game after all.
Christopher149
05-09-2013, 22:41
Quick question, did anyone predict the game for this year (2013) to any measurable amount of accuracy?
The closest I remember off-hand was someone who said, as they were en route to kickoff, that this year's game piece (and I paraphrase) "would probably be something annoying like frisbees". However, I don't remember any outright correct guesses like some past seasons (2011: someone actually wrote logomotion in a post as an accidental typo of locomotion; 2009: theories about lunar simulation came about with the luna fish hint; 2008: one of the hints showed a roof of a building that looked like a race track)
<offtopic-glance-at-old-threads>
From approximately April 2012 we need to Hang. (http://i.imgur.com/ZSOOz.jpg) (linked from http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106055&page=2). Same link, tetras were mentioned, which is reminiscent of the pyramids.
</offtopic-glance-at-old-threads>
The closest I remember off-hand was someone who said, as they were en route to kickoff, that this year's game piece (and I paraphrase) "would probably be something annoying like frisbees". However, I don't remember any outright correct guesses like some past seasons (2011: someone actually wrote logomotion in a post as an accidental typo of locomotion; 2009: theories about lunar simulation came about with the luna fish hint; 2008: one of the hints showed a roof of a building that looked like a race track)
<offtopic-glance-at-old-threads>
From approximately April 2012 we need to Hang. (http://i.imgur.com/ZSOOz.jpg) (linked from http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106055&page=2). Same link, tetras were mentioned, which is reminiscent of the pyramids.
</offtopic-glance-at-old-threads>
Frisbee golf was the closest, no pyramid though... http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1167503&highlight=frisbee+golf#post1167503
Kevin Leonard
06-09-2013, 00:19
Quick question, did anyone predict the game for this year (2013) to any measurable amount of accuracy?
Most of our team plays Ultimate, so while we were playing over the summer, we decided that if the game were to involve frisbees, we would go to Einstein. I then declared loudly that it would be a game with frisbees, and I bet someone 5 bucks on it.
Well, we didn't go to Einstein, buuuuuut.... :D
Comandore2314
07-09-2013, 11:48
I think that this years game will be more like a game with climbing evolve. Like last year. :yikes:
jwallace15
07-09-2013, 18:58
This doesn't have to do with FRC, but rather FTC; I started this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119058) thread about "FTC Block Party!" if anyone wishes to debate about/analyze that game. I think it's cool, and will be exciting to watch!
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