Where is gonna be located the 2014-2015 Championship? [Archive]

EricH

01-05-2013, 23:52

Limited options: L.A., Atlanta, New Orleans, Houston, Minneapolis, Denver, Miami, NY, NJ, Philly, Pittsburg, Kansas City, Arizona, Dallas, Boston, Las Vegas, Baltimore?
L.A. is out, much as I'd like to have the Championship here. Staples Center (the primary venue that would have any reasonable shot) isn't big enough, even with the convention center next door. Any football stadium project, as I understand it, is contingent on actually getting an NFL team, and that doesn't look like happening any time soon (though if it did, I could see CMP coming to Los Angeles; I remember something about the folks who were wanting to build it wanting to put it next to Staples Center/the Convention Center). Anaheim, next on the list in this area, would be out due to no stadium next to their convention center, I'd think. Long Beach (home of the Los Angeles Regional) has a convention center attached to a stadium, but suffers from the same problem as Staples: It's a basketball/hockey arena, not a football stadium.

Houston might have a shot, if they didn't stick us in the Reliant/Astrodome again.

Indianapolis has been mentioned as having a football stadium and convention center next door to each other.

Moon2020

02-05-2013, 00:07

Reliant Stadium in Houston seats 71,000, but not sure if it has enough attached exhibit space without using the Astrodome. Toyota Center downtown near the GRBCC is not big enough.

RohitD

02-05-2013, 00:12

Canada sounds good.

LucasM

02-05-2013, 00:14

According to Jim Beck at the Central Valley Regional, FIRST was considering holding it at the Anaheim Convention Center.

MrTechCenter

02-05-2013, 00:22

Reliant Stadium in Houston seats 71,000, but not sure if it has enough attached exhibit space without using the Astrodome. Toyota Center downtown near the GRBCC is not big enough.

I think the Reliant Center is a sufficient convention center. But I don't think they're totally attached like it is in St. Louis. Same thing with Indy, there is a gap between the convention center and stadium.

TheMadCADer

02-05-2013, 00:23

Houston might have a shot, if they didn't stick us in the Reliant/Astrodome again.

Any proposal from Houston wouldn't use the Astrodome, that building is pretty much abandoned. However, right next door there is Reliant Center, larger than America's Center in St. Louis by 200,000 square feet of floor space, and it is also right next door to an NFL stadium with a retractable roof. It's a bit more walking than St. Louis (and based on the shape of the convention center, some divisions would walk a bit further), but probably pretty close to what we had in Atlanta.

There's also Reliant Arena just across the parking lot, which couldn't handle FRC but could support some FLL/FTC. However, most people would like to keep all the levels together, so everyone can easily see it all at once.

Ryan Dognaux

02-05-2013, 00:26

Groups representing possible 2015 sites were in attendance at this years championship. Atlanta and Indianapolis were both represented and others as well. I would not be surprised if the championships were in Indy given the emphasis that Indianapolis has placed upon development of the downtown.

Louisville was being thrown out as a possible 2015 location, one that I haven't heard before among the usual contenders.

Aiyash

02-05-2013, 01:05

Cobo Hall and the Joe Louis Arena? Go Detroit!

nicholsjj

02-05-2013, 01:29

Cory

02-05-2013, 01:31

Any football stadium project, as I understand it, is contingent on actually getting an NFL team, and that doesn't look like happening any time soon (though if it did, I could see CMP coming to Los Angeles; I remember something about the folks who were wanting to build it wanting to put it next to Staples Center/the Convention Center).

LA would never build a dome. The weather is far too good for that.

Akash Rastogi

02-05-2013, 01:44

New Orleans would be really fun...:rolleyes:

Mike Marandola

02-05-2013, 01:46

Any proposal from Houston wouldn't use the Astrodome, that building is pretty much abandoned. However, right next door there is Reliant Center, larger than America's Center in St. Louis by 200,000 square feet of floor space, and it is also right next door to an NFL stadium with a retractable roof. It's a bit more walking than St. Louis (and based on the shape of the convention center, some divisions would walk a bit further), but probably pretty close to what we had in Atlanta.

There's also Reliant Arena just across the parking lot, which couldn't handle FRC but could support some FLL/FTC. However, most people would like to keep all the levels together, so everyone can easily see it all at once.

I think open air Championships in a stadium with a retractable roof would be amazing. Unless it is raining of course.

PayneTrain

02-05-2013, 02:32

I think open air Championships in a stadium with a retractable roof would be amazing. Unless it is raining of course.

The open air stadium would be very difficult since a large amount of lighting, curtains, and other things are rigged to the ceiling of the EJD as it is right now.

I do know Indianapolis' Convention Center has multiple hotels connected to the convention center, but a big issue will arise in the airport not having any independent mass transit to the downtown area like St. Louis or Atlanta.

bduddy

02-05-2013, 03:06

According to Jim Beck at the Central Valley Regional, FIRST was considering holding it at the Anaheim Convention Center.According to Wikipedia, its arena only holds 9,100 people. Are you sure he wasn't talking about a regional, or the VRC championships which are already held there?

MooreteP

02-05-2013, 06:43

My personal choices:

1) Atlanta: Familiarity, easy to get a direct flight, great public transportation, The Finale event is outside and right next to the venue (Centennial Park), many hotels within walking distance and less expensive ones located on the train lines (MARTA), Atlanta Braves Game, Aquarium, High Museum.

The only question is the fate of the Georgia Dome with their plans for a new retractable roof stadium for the Falcons (IMHO, a big mistake).

2) Indianapolis: I'm a Hoosier (Purdue 1984). A great sports capital, Many hotels attached to the venue, geographically more central. The relative density of teams are within a one-day drive is very high.

The downsides are the connecting flights and the public transportation option.

3) Minneapolis: Lived there for three years in the late 80's. Good public transportation from the airport. Similar to St. Louis for hotel accommodations. The skywalk system is awesome. Much to do. Great arts. The Twin City Twins at Target Field (although they bias away from the early spring games).
FIRST in Minnesota has shown tremendous growth.

The negatives would be connecting flights and the weather.

WILDCARDS:

Detroit: FiM and oh so very close to Canada.

San Diego, LA, Orlando: Why not return to the days of EPCOT and hold it outside. Spend the money you'll save on the dome by paying for awesome canopies over the field in the event it rains.
Six Divisions with 72 teams. (another thread)
Far from the East coast for LA and SD, and from the West for Orlando.
Maybe its time to shift the center of gravity West for a few years. People on the East Coast tend to not be aware of the time zones as people on the West Coast).

Denver: Cool city, but the transport lacks.

Dallas, San Antonio: Good airfares to Dallas, poor logistics. 2018 maybe. Good Center of Gravity.

Toronto: Perfect. Their cities are as well designed as their Robots.
Passports. :ahh:

Koko Ed

02-05-2013, 07:03

There is no way FIRST will use a hockey or basketball arena for the championships when there is a season (especially the playoffs) going on. Too much revenue lost.
Any city that has a domed football stadium has the inside track as far as I can see so places like Atlanta, Detroit,, Phoenix, New Orleans Dallas, San Antonio, St. Louis, Minneapolis and Houston make the most sense.

IndySam

02-05-2013, 07:30

I do know Indianapolis' Convention Center has multiple hotels connected to the convention center, but a big issue will arise in the airport not having any independent mass transit to the downtown area like St. Louis or Atlanta.

Indianapolis host the annual FFA convention which makes the championship look small. We know how to get people downtown.

goldenglove002

02-05-2013, 08:21

1) Atlanta: Familiarity, easy to get a direct flight, great public transportation, The Finale event is outside and right next to the venue (Centennial Park), many hotels within walking distance and less expensive ones located on the train lines (MARTA), Atlanta Braves Game, Aquarium, High Museum.

The only question is the fate of the Georgia Dome with their plans for a new retractable roof stadium for the Falcons (IMHO, a big mistake).

The Georgia Dome is currently scheduled to be demolished following the 2016-17 football season. That means the championship would only be held in Atlanta for 2015,16 and maybe 17 depending on the exact date of demolition. Unless the championship is held entirely within the GWCC (which is possible), that would probably be the end of Atlanta being in the discussion. The new stadium is expected to land a block south of where the Georgia Dome currently sits, possible still connected to the GWCC but further away.

kwotremb

02-05-2013, 09:11

Although it would be great to have Championships in Detroit (hey I live there), I just do not see a good area to hold it.

Cobo/Joe would have space for pits, but how about the fields? The Joe itself might hold 2 fields, 4 might be pushing it, but no way to have it all going on. Plus as stated above Hockey is going on so would have to coordinate around that.

Ford Field has the dome and plenty of room for seats and fields, but how about the pits? There is nothing close that would be able to hold them, unless they fit them and the fields inside of the dome. Maybe there is some parking lot they can make some temporary area for pits.

Silverdome is opened back up, but again issue with pits.

The Palace probably to small for fields and no room for pits.

kwotremb

02-05-2013, 09:14

The open air stadium would be very difficult since a large amount of lighting, curtains, and other things are rigged to the ceiling of the EJD as it is right now.

I was hoping especially with how the weather was the one year it was in Houston that they would open up the roof there. After seeing all the wires hanging from the roof, that was not going to happen. Maybe if it was set up right and the right kind of retractable roof maybe, but odds are low.

pntbll1313

02-05-2013, 09:18

My personal choices:

3) Minneapolis: Lived there for three years in the late 80's. Good public transportation from the airport. Similar to St. Louis for hotel accommodations. The skywalk system is awesome. Much to do. Great arts. The Twin City Twins at Target Field (although they bias away from the early spring games).
FIRST in Minnesota has shown tremendous growth.

The negatives would be connecting flights and the weather.

MN would be a bad choice at the moment. Target Field is outdoors and for those that don't know it snowed here yesterday. I wouldn't want my robot to be covered with snow... They are in the process of tearing down and building a new stadium where the Metrodome is. I think that will be done 2016 so maybe we'll be back in the discussion after that.

ehochstein

02-05-2013, 09:36

MN would be a bad choice at the moment. Target Field is outdoors and for those that don't know it snowed here yesterday. I wouldn't want my robot to be covered with snow... They are in the process of tearing down and building a new stadium where the Metrodome is. I think that will be done 2016 so maybe we'll be back in the discussion after that.

We have multiple venues that could hold parts of the championship event but they are all too far apart.

Minneapolis Convention Center (no stadium) (http://www.minneapolis.org/minneapolis-convention-center/exhibitors/floor-plans)

River Centre (Hockey arena is too small) (http://www.rivercentre.org/floorplans/lowerlevel.asp)

Metrodome (No space for pits) (http://www.msfc.com/detail.cfm/page/msfcSite_UZPZYVQT_YQDHRDSZ/)

I simply do not see a space for champs in Minneapolis, unless the new stadium is within range of the Minneapolis Convention Center.

Boe

02-05-2013, 09:47

We have multiple venues that could hold parts of the championship event but they are all too far apart.

Minneapolis Convention Center (no stadium) (http://www.minneapolis.org/minneapolis-convention-center/exhibitors/floor-plans)

River Centre (Hockey arena is too small) (http://www.rivercentre.org/floorplans/lowerlevel.asp)

Metrodome (No space for pits) (http://www.msfc.com/detail.cfm/page/msfcSite_UZPZYVQT_YQDHRDSZ/)

I simply do not see a space for champs in Minneapolis, unless the new stadium is within range of the Minneapolis Convention Center.

Unfortunatly i think your right :(
it would be awesome if champs came to MN but i dont see the space in the twin cities. If anyone does please tell me where.

actually on second thought what about duluth at the DECC. The space is massive, if FIRST could use ALL of the halls there i bet champs could fit. hech there were two regonals there this year and they ddnt use at least two or three of the halls (where all of the curling stuff is) plus the piits were very spaced out if arranged as tightly as st louis it could probably work.

My vote goes for Duluth Champs 2015

ehochstein

02-05-2013, 09:49

Racer26

02-05-2013, 09:59

I think open air Championships in a stadium with a retractable roof would be amazing. Unless it is raining of course.

You mean like the Rogers Center (#SkyDomeForever!) and MTCC combination in Toronto, ON?

jessss

02-05-2013, 10:02

actually on second thought what about duluth at the DECC. The space is massive, if FIRST could use ALL of the halls there i bet champs could fit. hech there were two regonals there this year and they ddnt use at least two or three of the halls (where all of the curling stuff is) plus the piits were very spaced out if arranged as tightly as st louis it could probably work.

My vote goes for Duluth Champs 2015

The difficult thing about Duluth is it's so far out of the way. MSP is about 2 hours away from Duluth I don't think people want to drive from Minneapolis to Duluth, or take another plane to Duluth. Transportation would be very difficult to Duluth, if it was in the cities it would be easier.

Sadly I don't think anywhere else in Minnesota would host the Championship Event. It would be cool though with the 180 Minnesota teams.

Batterink

02-05-2013, 10:06

You mean like the Rogers Center (#SkyDomeForever!) and MTCC combination in Toronto, ON?

That would be awesome. I'm not sure on how feasible it would be to get robots from the MTCC to the SkyDome though.

Patrick Flynn

02-05-2013, 10:09

Indianapolis host the annual FFA convention which makes the championship look small. We know how to get people downtown.

Would you be able to comment on how the convention center is connected to Lucas Oil stadium?
On their website it says, "Now, we’ve connected that stadium to the expanded Indiana Convention Center—doubling its size and creating one of the nation’s largest convention centers."

Would it be possible for robots to traverse this connection in a reasonable amount of time?

Racer26

02-05-2013, 10:11

That would be awesome. I'm not sure on how feasible it would be to get robots from the MTCC to the SkyDome though.

About as feasible as getting people from MTCC to SkyDome during Autoshow. Its not THAT bad.

MrTechCenter

02-05-2013, 10:12

I think that eventually FIRST will make Champs harder to qualify for, making space less of a problem.

sgreco

02-05-2013, 10:32

You mean like the Rogers Center (#SkyDomeForever!) and MTCC combination in Toronto, ON?

It would be cool to have it in Canada, but I'm not sure how well that would works seeing as the Blue Jays schedule would have to be arranged around it. No chance the MLB rearranges it's schedule to accommodate the FIRST Championships.

IndySam

02-05-2013, 10:32

Would you be able to comment on how the convention center is connected to Lucas Oil stadium?
On their website it says, "Now, we’ve connected that stadium to the expanded Indiana Convention Center—doubling its size and creating one of the nation’s largest convention centers."

Would it be possible for robots to traverse this connection in a reasonable amount of time?

The problem is they are not on the same level. Stairs or an elevator would be involved. I do not know their plan to overcome this obstacle.

Koko Ed

02-05-2013, 11:02

You mean like the Rogers Center (#SkyDomeForever!) and MTCC combination in Toronto, ON?

I don't think the Blue Jays would feel very inclinded to share their field with us at this time of year.

Lil' Lavery

02-05-2013, 11:19

Cobo Hall and the Joe Louis Arena? Go Detroit!
The Red Wings tend to be using the Joe in late April.

I don't think the Blue Jays would feel very inclinded to share their field with us at this time of year.

Far more likely than all the NHL/NBA arenas (given the playoff time frame). You can easily schedule a road trip in the regular season. We'd occupy the space for just under a week, or basically two series on the road. Hardly even a road trip worth mentioning.

Jonathan Norris

02-05-2013, 11:23

I don't think the Blue Jays would feel very inclinded to share their field with us at this time of year.

Yea the MTCC/SkyDome would be a great location for championship in terms of Transit/Hotels/Restaurants/Attractions in the area. But there really isn't a connection between MTCC and Skydome that would work for moving people/robots. Also the majority of MTCC's floor space is a couple levels underground... moving robots in elevators wouldn't be fun. There is also that whole passport issue :p

Its my understanding that the MTCC is going to go under a massive renovation in the next 5 years (It desperately needs it).

For me St. Louis/Indy/Houston/Atlanta are the front runners.

neshera

02-05-2013, 11:37

Let's have CMP at Lawrence North! :rolleyes: But seriously:
If I recall correctly, every year at IRI there is a city council member/alderman, who has explained that he feels Indianapolis wants, and has the facilities, for Champs - Lucas stadium and the convention center. He makes a compelling argument.
Although geographically central for the continental US, (and very convenient for our team!), I think Indianapolis is not geographically central for FIRST teams. If I understand correctly, our geographic center is a bit farther North.

So here's a project for someone with time on their hands: set up a map/algorithm that shows all FRC teams, and calculates their "center of gravity".

EricLeifermann

02-05-2013, 11:43

So here's a project for someone with time on their hands: set up a map/algorithm that shows all FRC teams, and calculates their "center of gravity".

Ed Law doesn't have this done yet? :P

BigJ

02-05-2013, 11:47

Ed Law doesn't have this done yet? :P

For some reason I just had a science-fiction dream of Ed Law, Mark McLeod, and Ether fusing together as some all-powerful FIRST AI.

I liked Atlanta a lot more than St. Louis but I wouldn't be opposed to something as convenient as Indy :)

Racer26

02-05-2013, 11:53

I feel (intuitively) that FIRSTs CoG is somewhere in Ohio.

Ontario, Michigan and the Northeast pull it that way, while California and Texas pull it away, resulting in somewhere in Ohio or Indiana.

AdamHeard

02-05-2013, 11:55

According to Wikipedia, its arena only holds 9,100 people. Are you sure he wasn't talking about a regional, or the VRC championships which are already held there?

Jim was referring to the future Southern California State Championship.

Alan Anderson

02-05-2013, 12:05

So here's a project for someone with time on their hands: set up a map/algorithm that shows all FRC teams, and calculates their "center of gravity".

It's been done before, with various assumptions as to how far teams would be willing to drive before needing to travel by air, and how much airfare costs. With certain reasonable assumptions, Atlanta is pretty good. With other reasonable assumptions, Indianapolis is very good. With yet other reasonable assumptions, St. Louis is good.

As different teams have different "value functions", there's no real global optimum unless you survey each team's preferences in detail.

David Brinza

02-05-2013, 12:13

How about St. Louis for 2015. I know it has had some problems but every venue will have some issues. St. Louis does provide a central location, major airport, and a nice layout for a major First event.
Just curious about the problems with St. Louis? The facilities are good, transportation is OK (STL is not a major hub, so direct flights are a problem), plenty of hotels, Gateway Arch, central location in US, etc are all plusses.

If the concern is crime, that's a problem in every US major city. Detroit, Atlanta, etc are not the safest places for young people to roam either.

EricLeifermann

02-05-2013, 12:17

Just curious about the problems with St. Louis? The facilities are good, transportation is OK (STL is not a major hub, so direct flights are a problem), plenty of hotels, Gateway Arch, central location in US, etc are all plusses.

If the concern is crime, that's a problem in every US major city. Detroit, Atlanta, etc are not the safest places for young people to roam either.

The problem is weather, the lack of things to do really close to the venue, and food close to the venue. Having Olympic park, the CNN center, world of coke, and Georgia aquarium all within a 5 min walk of the Georgia dome was awesome. not to mention the awesome weather, the better pit set up and a more respectable HOF set up as well. Yes the pits were a really long walk from the stands for spectators but that is the only bad thing I ever had to say about Atlanta.

IndySam

02-05-2013, 12:17

Just curious about the problems with St. Louis? The facilities are good, transportation is OK (STL is not a major hub, so direct flights are a problem), plenty of hotels, Gateway Arch, central location in US, etc are all plusses.

If the concern is crime, that's a problem in every US major city. Detroit, Atlanta, etc are not the safest places for young people to roam either.

The biggest thing is it's just too small, there is no room to grow.

But I think most of you are missing the #1 thing when searching for a new venue, cash. From sponsors, hotels, or wherever, the city that gets the next championship will be bringing money to the table.

JackN

02-05-2013, 12:29

I would say logistically Detroit would be almost impossible for a site. Terrible mass transit and poor hotel locations make flying very difficult for teams. If you were to put it in Ford Field, you would have to work with the Tigers to make sure there is not a baseball game that weekend as they share a lot of the same parking facilities.

Indy would be a very good pick I think. Driving past it on my way home from STL I saw Lucas Oil+The Convention Center. If it wasn't for the NBA playoffs, I would say you could put FTC/FLL in Banker's Life Fieldhouse to give them their own world championship.

Denise Bohnsack

02-05-2013, 12:29

My thought on any future Championship location.

The event should be centrally located in fairness to all parties. It takes an entire day to fly to the west coast from the east coast and then a day the other other way. Or vice versus. So 2 days just flying from location on one end of the country to the other takes too much time for students in school.

The warmer the climate in April the better. Many teams spend much time walking outside to hotels, restaurants, and site seeing as their primary mode of transportation once they reach the hotels.
Also, a Finale like Atlanta in the outdoors, with plenty of room for everyone, and fireworks was magical, inspiring, and a chance for all teams to be in the same place. So when deciding the venue, it would be good to see if the city had a location which would provide the same venue and have weather which would likely be cooperative.

Very important: Airline transportation with at least one major airport with many flights to the city. Competitive rates for flying to the location.

An abundance of affordable hotels.

Great opportunities for other educational experiences and fun venues in the area.

Many strong teams in the state so that the volunteer base is already well informed of FIRST and can handle the need for local, supportive volunteers.

Of course, facilities that can handle the venue, but that is a given, and any location which cannot accommodate the championship would be out.

My thoughts for the strong city candidates would be the following.

Houston:
Centrally located, and has at least 1 (maybe 2) major airports, plenty of flights in and out, which are affordable. One of America's largest cities ( is the 4th largest city in America) with great infrastructure. Enormous amount of hotels suitable for FIRST participants.
Great teams, and strong volunteer base.
Warm climate suitable for plenty of outdoor activities.
NEARBY: The Johnston Space Center,(incredible and a great educational opportunity) Kemah Boardwalk, (Boardwalk with loads of restaurants, hotels and a few rides(the Beast roller coaster, ferris wheel, etc.) Galveston Island (beach with ocean front hotels and activities) the Houston Museum District, the Aquarium, and too many more to mention.
Possible down side: Understand the walk between Reliant Center and Convention Center is longer than Atlanta or St. Louis.

Dallas: Dallas would be a great venue. Many of the points above are the same as Houston. Dallas has other great educational and fun activities for students and has 2 major airports with plenty of flights. In the Fort Worth area is Six Flags across from the huge Jerry Jones stadium,(which would be a great venue except no convention center nearby) I do not know if there is an existing facility which could really serve FIRST well which is the main issue. I leave that to the experts.

Indianapolis: Centrally located, great venue for the FIRST Championship, Great downtown area with good hotels. Home of the Indy 500 and Indy Museum and Indianapolis Children's Museum, both great facilities.
Downside: It is cold in Indiana this time of year, so outside activities will be limited. Could be very cold and rainy. The airport is good but not large like Houston or Dallas and perhaps not as many flights available. This is an issue needs to be studied to make sure there is enough accommodating flights for the teams. Having said this, Indianapolis is a wonderful city with great, friendly, volunteer oriented people. They understand big events. The Indianapolis 500 is the largest sporting event there is and so the city understands hosting large amounts of people from everywhere.(I know, I lived in the area for 2 years)

St Louis: I have enjoyed St. Louis. It meets most of the original criteria I stated above. One issue seems to have been the unpredictable weather prevents some outdoor activities. I think it has been a great host city, and could continue to be a great venue, but perhaps some folks are ready to try something different and have some new experiences.

I realize there may be some other excellent candidates for host cities I have not mentioned here. I think the best candidates meet the criteria I first stated and perhaps there are other locations I have not mentioned that meet these criteria. Also, it is really important to have the support of the community which the event takes place. I look forward to future FIRST Championships and spending time with the great people who are always there. :)

MARS_James

02-05-2013, 12:35

I feel (intuitively) that FIRSTs CoG is somewhere in Ohio.

Ontario, Michigan and the Northeast pull it that way, while California and Texas pull it away, resulting in somewhere in Ohio or Indiana.

Don't forget Florida's 76 teams pulling it south (only 1 less than Ontario) . Also fun fact If you are a team in Miami and want to drive to some other state for a competition it is about 7-8 hours just to get out of Florida

artdutra04

02-05-2013, 13:17

Here are my thoughts on some of the proposed cities:

Atlanta
Present: I really liked CMP here. The weather was almost always beautiful, the subway provided good public transit from airport / around downtown area, and there was an abundance of parks, attractions, food courts, restaurants, hotels, and more downtown. The fact that ATL is a major airline hub makes is really easy to fly into. I would prefer a 1 hour longer flight if I can fly direct. The walk from the pits to the stands was a bit long, but the convention center was absolutely HUGE and would provide a lot of room for future growth.

Future: Why is ATL looking to replace what appears to be a perfectly fine stadium with a new one? It would be one thing if the stadium was 70 years old and requiring excessive maintenance, but it seemed relatively new.

A future benefit to Atlanta is that they are currently building a streetcar line downtown connecting all the major attractions together. Hopefully this will provide more convenient access around the downtown core.

St Louis
Present: The weather here is meh in April - the past few years have frequently been stormy, rainy, and cold ish. The Dome / convention center is nice, but there aren't that many options for food in downtown STL (no large food courts / malls in walking distance of Dome). Public transit is decent around downtown and to airport.

The downtown area seems "cold" and "dead" - like half the buildings are completely empty and there aren't many people walking about on the sidewalks. More activity and things in downtown would increase street life and make the area seem safer (more people around = people feel safer).

Future: If the Championship event continues to grow, finding enough space for pits will be an issue.

Indianapolis
Present: I haven't been to downtown Indy, but from the descriptions it seems good and are looking better for future economic growth. The stadium / convention center are close, but may require ramps again. While it may be nice for those in driving distance, flying into Indy is not particularly easy and usually requires layovers.

The lack of real public transit is an real hindrance (a temporary shuttle bus is a band aid). Having light rail / subway lines between the airport, downtown, and suburbs greatly improves how people and teams can get around and offers more flexibility in hotel accommodations if hotels in downtown are too expensive / already booked. Every time I go to IRI I spend a fairly large amount of money on taxis; I would much rather spend $2.50 on a train ticket for this (http://www.indyconnect.org/UserFiles/pdf/Phase%20One%20Map.pdf).

The weather seems like it would be comparable to St Louis.

Dallas
This was brought up in this thread as an option, but there is no real arena next to the fairly large downtown convention center. There is a mini "arena" in the convention center, but that barely held the double Dallas regionals in 2012. The public transit offering is decent, but doesn't yet connect directly to either Dallas airport (currently you need a shuttle bus from the Orange line to both Dallas Love and DFW airports). The Orange Line is planned to directly connect to DFW in a few years, and they are expanding the downtown Dallas streetcar lines. The DFW airport is a major hub and easy to fly into.

A lot of the attractions (sports arenas, the original Six Flags) are all in Arlington (15 miles west of Dallas) and difficult to get to without a car. The weather here in April is usually nice, but with an elevated chance of strong thunderstorms.

Despite living 45 minutes away from downtown Dallas (gotta love 75 mph speed limits), I think Atlanta is the overall best choice for the CMP location.

Boe

02-05-2013, 13:21

the two biggest pulls of firsts cog is probably texas/california vs minnesota/michigan with other small amouts from the rest of the country, with the next biggest group probably being the NE. Iowa probably is most central i would think or maybe nebraska

David Brinza

02-05-2013, 13:30

The biggest thing is it's just too small, there is no room to grow.

But I think most of you are missing the #1 thing when searching for a new venue, cash. From sponsors, hotels, or wherever, the city that gets the next championship will be bringing money to the table.
With 100 teams in each division, I don't think Champs needs to grow (at least for FRC). The teams want to play more than 8 matches and, short of shrinking the size of divisions, the easy? way to do that is for longer days. Growing to six divisions creates other logistic issues discussed in other threads.

Will cities (or venues) bring cash to the table for FIRST (or any other event)? I think the dollars flow in the other direction. Cities benefit from the revenue generated by the visitors. FIRST pays for the facility. Will a local sponsor will foot the venue cost? Let's see: St. Louis has Anheiser-Busch (NOT gonna' happen), Atlanta has Coca-Cola (Oh-oh, a winner?)

An earlier post mentioned there was nothing else to do in the area. I spent almost every hour in the venue when it was open (Wed pm to Sat pm). I didn't have the time (or energy) to look for other things to do!! That said, the Arch is well-worth visiting (even if you don't ride to the top). City Museum is just a 10-minute walk away and has something for all ages groups. Forest Park (via Metro Rail) has a LOT: zoo, art museum, Science Center).

JeffersonMartin

02-05-2013, 13:33

Okay, maybe the Georgia Dome, is young and doesn't need to be replaced, but how amazing would the FIRST championship be in the Pantheon? http://www.businessinsider.com/atlanta-falcons-stadium-concept-designs-2013-5#the-first-of-the-two-designs-is-called-pantheon-1

MysterE

02-05-2013, 13:41

Just thought I'd throw in New Orleans as a possibility.

Cory

02-05-2013, 13:44

Someone did this study in 2009-2010 when Indy was pulling to be the next host of Championships and said that Indy was basically the population center of FIRST. I recall the number being something like 60+% of teams that would attend champs could drive, if it was held in Indy.

Phalanx

02-05-2013, 13:57

I've been doing FIRST since 2003, and missed the EPCOT era. However, I know from Houston, Atlanta, and St. Louis. In comparing the 3, myself I personally pick St. Louis hands down over the others. Here are my reasons why. Keep in mind I'm on the EAST coast.

1) Centralized location for the MAJORITY of FIRST teams.
2) Cheaper hotel, airfare, and food costs than Atlanta.
3) Convention Center(ie.. Pits) to Dome travel is less than 5 minutes.
4) Mass Transit is inexpensive $25 for a weekly ($7 daily) go anywhere as much as you want pass. Both bus and metro rail take you right to the event venue.
5) For those that believe in staying long than just the event, there are a number of great FREE things to see and do. For example, the History Museum, Art Museum, the Zoo and most things in FOREST PARK (via Metro Rail) are FREE. In fact I usually get there a few days ahead of time for sightseeing.

I do agree that the weather can be iffy. I was there for an entire week this year. I had a mix of low 70's sunny, and rainy cold days, the day I left(Monday) it was 81 and sunny. But heck we're inside for the event anyway.

I also agree that finding food in St. Louis in the evenings is difficult. Most places close at 2PM as it's a 8-4/9-5 kind of town. However, I've found that there are a number of good places not far from the venue that are open. I've been told this has been discussed with the St. Louis chamber of commerce, but the local business haven't been willing to invest in the risk that MAYBE someone will come in. That's something that definitely needs more work.

PerpetualMotion

02-05-2013, 15:26

This is an interesting discussion. The main requirements of the Championship Location is that it is in a venue that is large enough to have five fields, and seat over 20,000 people. It seems like the only options for this are NFL and MLB stadiums, unless you want to roll bleachers into a convention center like 2011, but that is uncomfortable to say the least. The venue also needs to be next to a convention center in order to hold all of the pits.

To evaluate all possible options, I made a list of all NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_National_Football_League_stadiums) and MLB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_stadiums) stadiums using wikipedia. From this list, I crossed off any stadiums that did not have a roof (I just looked at the pictures to do this, so this may be inaccurate). I was left with the following 13 options.

Chase Field in Phoenix, Arizona
Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, Texas
Edward Jones Dome in St. Louis, Missouri
Ford Field in Detroit, Michigan
Georgia Dome in Atlanta, Georgia
Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome in Minneapolis, Minnesota
Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis, Indiana
Mercedes-Benz Superdome in New Orleans, Louisiana
Reliant Stadium in Houston, Texas
Rogers Centre in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Safeco Field in Seattle, Washington
Tropicana Field in St. Petersburg, Florida
University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale, Arizona

I then searched for nearby convention centers for each of these stadiums. There does not appear to be a CC near Tropicana Field, and the ones near University of Phoenix Stadium and Reliant Stadium are over 5 miles away. The CCs near Cowboys Stadium, Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome, Safeco Field, Ford Field, and Mercedes-Benz Superdome do not appear to be connected to the stadiums (please correct me if I'm wrong). This leaves 5 options

Georgia Dome
Chase Field
Edward Jones Dome
Lucas Oil Stadium
Rogers Centre

Chase Field has a grass playing surface and likely cannot be covered up for 4+ days, so it doesn't appear to be an option, and the Rogers Centre is in Canada, so there are the obvious travel and passport issues that go along with it, so it doesn't seem to be an option either.

Interestingly enough, the 3 remaining options are the 3 that are commonly discussed here on CD; Georgia Dome, Edward Jones Dome, Lucas Oil Stadium.

Ranking these venues depend on personal opinion at this point, but I think the major factors include travel (minimizing distance and cost, ie. major airport), accommodation availability/cost, and ease of robot transportation from the pits to the field. Other factors include weather, nearby food/attractions and the FIRST Finale. Safety and crime is an obvious consideration, although as others have said, I think all of these cities would have similar crime issues.

While others have said Indianapolis is the most central for teams, for the teams outside of driving distance, flight cost are long and/or expensive to non-major airports. According to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_the_United_States) , Atlanta is the most busy airport in the US, so it likely has the cheapest rates and most direct flights. St. Louis is ranked 31st and Indianapolis is 50th. IMO, travel is the next most important metric, so Atlanta wins by a landslide, however if the stadium is in fact slated to be torn down in 2017, maybe it's not actually an option as I'm sure FIRST would want a contract longer than 2-3 years.

If Atlanta is out of the question, I would be interested to know how well connected the Lucas Oil Stadium and Indiana Convention Center are, and how easy it will be for robots to get to/from the fields.

MechEng83

02-05-2013, 15:40

While I'd love for the World Championship to be in Indy in 2015, it looks like the standard week we would have the event is already reserved: http://www.icclos.com/planners/upcoming-events-details.aspx?eventID=1504001

I suppose FIRST could always change the week, but maybe we're looking at 2016 before the event is in Indy.

kwotremb

02-05-2013, 15:45

I enjoy reading all of these comments about passports. I feel sorry for all of our international friends. I know there are more teams in the US, but they have to deal with having a passport to travel to the US. If Canada has the best option for holding the event, I do not feel like this should be a deal breaker.

Will be interesting to watch what happens with the new stadium in Atlanta as well as Minnesota to see if they could become potential areas to hold the event.

PayneTrain

02-05-2013, 15:55

While others have said Indianapolis is the most central for teams, for the teams outside of driving distance, flight cost are long and/or expensive to non-major airports. According to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_the_United_States) , Atlanta is the most busy airport in the US, so it likely has the cheapest rates and most direct flights. St. Louis is ranked 31st and Indianapolis is 50th. IMO, travel is the next most important metric, so Atlanta wins by a landslide, however if the stadium is in fact slated to be torn down in 2017, maybe it's not actually an option as I'm sure FIRST would want a contract longer than 2-3 years.

If Atlanta is out of the question, I would be interested to know how well connected the Lucas Oil Stadium and Indiana Convention Center are, and how easy it will be for robots to get to/from the fields.

I believe the new Stadium is going to remain on the "GWCC campus" with its most likely location being on the north side of the GWCC instead of the south, where the Georgia Dome is. I believe the NCAA, SEC, and Peach Bowl committee have cited their favorability of the location to hold major events because they also use one of the halls of the convention center for fan events for Final Four, SEC Football Championship, and Chick Fil A Peach Bowl "fanfests" in a contained environment.

The GWCC is also the largest event space of its kind when added in with the dome, and the GWCC will have nominal ownership and control over the new stadium.

As I have mentioned in previous threads, the AirTran/Southwest merger coupled with Delta have made the Atlanta airport not only a living hell for people who need connecting flights out of the airport ;) , it means usually teams can fly direct cheaper from far flung places for cheaper than connecting into St Louis.

It is interesting that HQ has announced this one year extension into 2014 but has neither officially renewed in St Louis nor made any rumblings of putting out a bid yet, but we may see that during or after the summer.

gyroscopeRaptor

02-05-2013, 15:58

Minnesota's conference center is far away from the new Vikings stadium site. It's not going to be there.

Moon2020

02-05-2013, 16:14

Correct, Tropicana does not have an exhibit hall attached. There are not enough hotels centrally located next to it either.

That's it. Orlando has to build a domed stadium next door to the OCCC and lure an NFL team to bring FIRST back. ;-)

I'm not complaining about flying to St. Louis, but I'd rather drive to Atlanta.

There is great food available past 5 pm in St. Louis if you know where to look for it. :]

Lil' Lavery

02-05-2013, 16:16

Passports are far from the only barrier to moving the Championship to Canada (or another foreign nation). NASA, and any other US gov't entities, likely wouldn't be able to sponsor the event as easily (if at all) if it's not held within the US.

bearbot

02-05-2013, 16:19

what about Baltimore,MD and the Baltimore convention center

Moon2020

02-05-2013, 16:22

what about Baltimore,MD and the Baltimore convention center

Camden Yards is not attached nor does it have a dome. Brrr!

Koko Ed

02-05-2013, 16:34

what about Baltimore,MD and the Baltimore convention center

Everyone keeps bringing up Convention Centers are options.First of all they wouldn't be fields anymore. They'd be rooms (Gallieo Room. Archimedes Room. Curie Room. Newton Room) because basically convention centers are just big rooms. And during the qualifications it's perfectly fine. A little tight in the stands but doable. Then comes the elims where everyone is darting between fields between matches and now have to go down the hall or even up and down an escalator to do so. Now comes the real fun part: Einstein. Do you really think you're gonna fit 20 to 30 thousand people in a room. Do you think the Fire Marshal is gonna allow it? So sine we can't cram all those people into the room who gets to go? If you didn't get into the elims, you can't come in. If you got eliminated in the quarters you can't come in. If you got the boot in the semis half of your team can come in. Everybody else sure it's cool. The rest of you peasants can go watch on a screen in your division room.
Yeah, that'll go over really well.
So let's drop the idea of ever going to a convention center. It just can't happen.

TheMadCADer

02-05-2013, 16:59

I then searched for nearby convention centers for each of these stadiums. There does not appear to be a CC near Tropicana Field, and the ones near University of Phoenix Stadium and Reliant Stadium are over 5 miles away.

:confused:

The Reliant convention center is within feet of Reliant Stadium. I'm guessing you were going by George R. Brown, which is pretty far away.

IndySam

02-05-2013, 17:05

You could set up 8 different divisions in the Indianapolis Convention Center of 60 teams. Keeping them small would provide more adequate seating and the matches teams are looking for.

Let FTC and FLL have Lucas all to themselves until Saturday. Have two or three fields in the dome and run round robin matches among the division winners Saturday after lunch and have the top four go to Einstein.

Lil' Lavery

02-05-2013, 17:20

Everyone keeps bringing up Convention Centers are options.First of all they wouldn't be fields anymore. They'd be rooms (Gallieo Room. Archimedes Room. Curie Room. Newton Room) because basically convention centers are just big rooms. And during the qualifications it's perfectly fine. A little tight in the stands but doable. Then comes the elims where everyone is darting between fields between matches and now have to go down the hall or even up and down an escalator to do so. Now comes the real fun part: Einstein. Do you really think you're gonna fit 20 to 30 thousand people in a room. Do you think the Fire Marshal is gonna allow it? So sine we can't cram all those people into the room who gets to go? If you didn't get into the elims, you can't come in. If you got eliminated in the quarters you can't come in. If you got the boot in the semis half of your team can come in. Everybody else sure it's cool. The rest of you peasants can go watch on a screen in your division room.
Yeah, that'll go over really well.
So let's drop the idea of ever going to a convention center. It just can't happen.

Vex seems to handle it pretty well.

Patrick Flynn

02-05-2013, 17:25

Vex seems to handle it pretty well.

Vex plays their finals in a dome arena with enough seating. Not solving the problem of what to do with Einstein and ceremonies.

You could set up 8 different divisions in the Indianapolis Convention Center of 60 teams. Keeping them small would provide more adequate seating and the matches teams are looking for.

Let FTC and FLL have Lucas all to themselves until Saturday. Have two or three fields in the dome and run round robin matches among the division winners Saturday after lunch and have the top four go to Einstein.

This is a really interesting idea. It would reduce the need to ever need to more your robot long distances, and once elims start teams already currently bring their pits onto the dome floor. The only negative here would be that more fields would be required even if there were 4 divisional fields in the convention center, and 2-3 +Einstein in Lucas.

RyanJK

02-05-2013, 18:04

Hello everyone,

I've heard from a few FIRST staff members that 10 cities have given FIRST bids to host the next world championship and are currently considered to be in the running. Those cities are:

1) St. Louis
2) Orlando
3) Atlanta
4) Anaheim
5) Indianapolis (but they couldn't host the 2015 championship due to planned construction, or something like that)
6) New York City
7) Chicago
8) Philadelphia
9) Detroit
10) San Diego

I was told that, while other cities can still give FIRST a bid, at this point it is unlikely that this will happen, meaning the championship will be in one of these cities unless someone comes in out of nowhere with an amazing deal.

I think the most interesting thing about these cities is that it seems FIRST is willing to explore the idea of not having Worlds in a NFL stadium/convention center affair. That could lead to some very cool host cities in the future!

Denise Bohnsack

02-05-2013, 18:10

:confused:

The Reliant convention center is within feet of Reliant Stadium. I'm guessing you were going by George R. Brown, which is pretty far away.

I have been to Reliant Center for a football game. It is an enormous impressive facility. I have not attended the Houston FIRST Championship there but hear it is doable. I would like to see comments from folks who have personal experience who have attended the event in 2003. I understand the facilities are different now so an update on that would be appreciated too.

So informed, educated commentary on the logistics of Houston for World Championship and if it could be a real possibility.

I found a web site reliantpark.com that shows a pic of the stadium and the nearby convention center, and drawings and info about the venue.

Or course, as someone mentioned earlier, how willing the hosts are to accommodate and help fund the event, is very important and pivotal to the decision no matter where any of us would like it to be. If Houston is not willing to put a bid in for the event, perhaps it really does not matter whether it would be a good venue or not.

Moon2020

02-05-2013, 18:15

If this is truly the case where a stadium is not needed, the West Concourse in Orlando's OCCC is gigantic. It's 1.1 Million sq ft! No need to split Divisions into different rooms!

Denise Bohnsack

02-05-2013, 18:38

If this is truly the case where a stadium is not needed, the West Concourse in Orlando's OCCC is gigantic. It's 1.1 Million sq ft! No need to split Divisions into different rooms!

I will concur that the Orlando Convention Center is ENORMOUS. The airport is great with lots of flights. Lots of hotels in Orlando in all price ranges. Tons of educational and fun opportunities. Orlando hosts an incredible well run regional which everyone enjoys and the community is well informed with dedicated volunteers from FIRST. Of course, the weather is fantastic that time of year. An educational trip to Kennedy Space Center (about 35 minutes away) for teams would be a huge plus.

However, I cannot understand how the opening and closing ceremonies and final matches would accommodate all the viewers but maybe this is doable? How would that work? Also,it is a long way to fly for our friends on the West Coast.

But sometimes where there is a will there is a way, and thinking outside the box can make for great solutions. :]

David Brinza

02-05-2013, 18:41

I have been to Reliant Center for a football game. It is an enormous impressive facility. I have not attended the Houston FIRST Championship there but hear it is doable. I would like to see comments from folks who have personal experience who have attended the event in 2003. I understand the facilities are different now so an update on that would be appreciated too.

So informed, educated commentary on the logistics of Houston for World Championship and if it could be a real possibility.

I found a web site reliantpark.com that shows a pic of the stadium and the nearby convention center, and drawings and info about the venue.

Or course, as someone mentioned earlier, how willing the hosts are to accommodate and help fund the event, is very important and pivotal to the decision no matter where any of us would like it to be. If Houston is not willing to put a bid in for the event, perhaps it really does not matter whether it would be a good venue or not.
The 2003 Championship had the field in Reliant and the pits in the Astro Dome. It was a MAJOR hike to move robots between pits and fields: especially going up and down multiple ramps to get to and from the ground-levels of the stadia. By time you returned to the pit, you had maybe 20 minutes to repair and prepare for the next match.

Still it was an exciting event!

Mykey

02-05-2013, 18:46

Shamu Stadium at Sea World. ;)

EricH

02-05-2013, 18:47

I would like to see comments from folks who have personal experience who have attended the event in 2003. I understand the facilities are different now so an update on that would be appreciated too.
Using the Reliant Stadium (yes, where the Texans play) as the field building worked OK. Using the Astrodome as the pits went down in the books as a "We're NEVER doing this again!" From what I understand, the Finale (or equivalent) wasn't well attended, but I didn't go so I wouldn't know.

LA would never build a dome. The weather is far too good for that. We get rain in winter, on occasion. And, I happen to remember hearing something about "retractable roof" in the news last time I heard something about building an arena. (I also happen to remember reading something about needing an NFL team to commit before the arena happened--haven't heard anything about said team committing.)

Koko Ed

02-05-2013, 18:54

Using the Reliant Stadium (yes, where the Texans play) as the field building worked OK. Using the Astrodome as the pits went down in the books as a "We're NEVER doing this again!" From what I understand, the Finale (or equivalent) wasn't well attended, but I didn't go so I wouldn't know.

All I remember about Astroworld was being trapped for 30 minutes in a metal cage 60 feet off the ground. I had enough of Astroworld by then.

PayneTrain

02-05-2013, 18:56

All I remember about Astroworld was being trapped for 30 minutes in a metal cage 60 feet off the ground. I had enough of Astroworld by then.

If it's any consolation they apparently heard your criticism and decided to flatten the place.

Koko Ed

02-05-2013, 19:01

If it's any consolation they apparently heard your criticism and decided to flatten the place.

Glad to see it gone.

David Brinza

02-05-2013, 19:08

LA would never build a dome. The weather is far too good for that.
To host the Super Bowl, the NFL wants to take the weather out of the equation (how else can such spectacular half-time shows occur? :D).

Farmer's field will have a retractable dome. Check out image gallery here (http://farmersfield.com/pages/image-gallery).

Koko Ed

02-05-2013, 19:11

To host the Super Bowl, the NFL wants to take the weather out of the equation (how else can such spectacular half-time shows occur? :D).

Farmer's field will have a retractable dome. Check out image gallery here (http://farmersfield.com/pages/image-gallery).

If that was the case they would have never sent next year's Superbowl to New Jersey.
and LA doesn't deserve an NFL team. I wish they'd quit trying to poach other more deserving market's teams.

Brian C

02-05-2013, 19:16

So informed, educated commentary on the logistics of Houston for World Championship and if it could be a real possibility.

IMO Logistically the Championships at Houston were not very good. The pits were on the floor of the Astrodome and there was a 3 or 4 story ramp that teams had to go up on their way to the fields in Reliant stadium. It made the trip back and forth from the pits to the field in Atlanta look like a cakewalk.

The wrap party at Astroworld was, in a word....forgettable.

I still reminisce about Championships at EPCOT. Logistically it was excellent due to transportation, flights, lodging, food. Plus no matter what happened....you were at Disneyworld :D

No matter where the Championships are awarded there will always be pros and cons. We'll see what 2015 brings......

JB987

02-05-2013, 19:22

If considering just a convention center, it's hard to top what we have here in Las Vegas...

The Las Vegas Convention Center (LVCC), located adjacent to the Las Vegas Strip, encompasses approximately 3.2 million square feet with exhibit space of 2 million square feet and meeting space of nearly 250,000 square feet. The facility is one of the most modern and functional centers in the world - centrally located withing walking distance of 100,000 guest rooms.

Now if you could just convince the Visitors Authority and the hotel/casinos that 15,000 kids who don't gamble would somehow be a good thing for their businesses...and also convince the team's parents and school boards that Las Vegas doesn't have a lock on "sinful" behavior then you might be on to something:D

Koko Ed

02-05-2013, 19:24

I still reminisce about Championships at EPCOT. Logistically it was excellent due to transportation, flights, lodging, food. Plus no matter what happened....you were at Disneyworld :D

All I remember about Disney was how hot it was and how badly I wanted to find shade. I didn't care one bit about the robot.
Our lead teacher was right. The event wasn't about FIRST it was about Disney.

Woolly

02-05-2013, 19:30

Koko Ed

02-05-2013, 19:36

We could move it to Toronto, there's 2 convention centers there with over a million square feet of space.

If I could choose a FIRST city it would be Toronto all the way. I go to GTR West all the time and both Toronto and Mississauga are great cities.
Sadly it'll never happen.

Denise Bohnsack

02-05-2013, 19:44

Any proposal from Houston wouldn't use the Astrodome, that building is pretty much abandoned. However, right next door there is Reliant Center, larger than America's Center in St. Louis by 200,000 square feet of floor space, and it is also right next door to an NFL stadium with a retractable roof. It's a bit more walking than St. Louis (and based on the shape of the convention center, some divisions would walk a bit further), but probably pretty close to what we had in Atlanta.

There's also Reliant Arena just across the parking lot, which couldn't handle FRC but could support some FLL/FTC. However, most people would like to keep all the levels together, so everyone can easily see it all at once.

So the Astrodome that did not work well for 2003 has been shut down now.So those that attended in 2003 what was your opinion of just Reliant Stadium? And since I have never been to the new Reliant Center, which compares to St. Louis America's Center only larger, how would that work?

Koko Ed

02-05-2013, 19:46

So the Astrodome that did not work well for 2003 has been shut down now.So those that attended in 2003 what was your opinion of just Reliant Stadium? And since I have never been to the new Reliant Center, which compares to St. Louis America's Center only larger, how would that work?

Reliant Stadium is beautiful. Of all the venues for the championships I have attended Reliant stadium is the nicest one.

GaryVoshol

02-05-2013, 21:20

... the inside track as far as I can see so places like ... Detroit ...
You thought the walk from Astrodome to Reliant was long? The convention center (Cobo) is more than a mile from Ford Field.

Denise Bohnsack

02-05-2013, 21:30

All I remember about Disney was how hot it was and how badly I wanted to find shade. I didn't care one bit about the robot.
Our lead teacher was right. The event wasn't about FIRST it was about Disney.

The Championship previously was held at Epcot at Disney in Orlando. The gigantic Orlando Convention Center is on International Drive and not on Disney property. The Disney entrance is about 10 to 15 minutes away depending on traffic. Further down International Drive (also about 10 to 15 minutes depending on traffic another direction) is Universal Studios. Late April is past the times for most Spring Breaks and too early for summer break so I believe the crowds are lower at that time leaving lots of hotels open. If a convention center model would work, Orlando would be a great contender for many reasons. And those who want to stay a little longer to site see and visit Disney, Universal, Sea World or Kennedy Space Center could do so. The weather is particularly beautiful in the evening at that time when many teams would be out and about. The airport is world class with plenty of flights and airlines servicing it. Not a central location for all FIRST teams is a negative and again, the convention center model may be challenging.

I enjoy reading your input! You are a long time FIRST participant and volunteer. Excellent!

Moon2020

02-05-2013, 22:09

Now if O-town can just get their light rail system finished on time...

I know KLM, British Airways, Virgin Atlantic, Lufthansa, etc. all have direct flights into Orlando (MCO). For our West Coast people, I have been on the direct flights from MCO to LAX and back on both Delta and Virgin America so I can relate on the distance/time.

I love both Houston and Las Vegas. No objection to either for myself, but just thinking Las Vegas could be a tad bit too wild for 20k students who are under age 18.

cjrazdar15

02-05-2013, 23:03

I've heard from a few FIRST staff members that 10 cities have given FIRST bids to host the next world championship and are currently considered to be in the running. Those cities are:

1) St. Louis
2) Orlando
3) Atlanta
4) Anaheim
5) Indianapolis (but they couldn't host the 2015 championship due to planned construction, or something like that)
6) New York City
7) Chicago
8) Philadelphia
9) Detroit
10) San Diego

I was talking to a FIRST senior mentor at the CMP this year, and they said FIRST has it narrowed down to 6 cities. Those being Detroit, St. Louis, Atlanta, Anaheim, Indianapolis, and one other city.

He said that each of those cities are soon going to have to formally present to FIRST about why they should get the contract.

I am personally rooting for Indianapolis :)

dodar

02-05-2013, 23:19

Denise Bohnsack

02-05-2013, 23:52

I was talking to a FIRST senior mentor at the CMP this year, and they said FIRST has it narrowed down to 6 cities. Those being Detroit, St. Louis, Atlanta, Anaheim, Indianapolis, and one other city.

He said that each of those cities are soon going to have to formally present to FIRST about why they should get the contract.

I am personally rooting for Indianapolis :)

I am sure the FIRST World Championship committee will give each city serious consideration, review all important points, and will make an outstanding decision. I look forward to hearing which city FIRST World Championship will be fortunate to have as host!!!

SciBorg Dave

03-05-2013, 01:07

I would like to see the Championship move across all 4 time zone.
If this could be done it would give a boost to FIRST in all regions of the country. We did Eastern and Central time zones, lets move to the Rockies and then Western.

johnr

03-05-2013, 09:39

Detroit? Oh god,no no no! I live in the city. Five minutes from downtown proper. I don't think they have enough hotel space close to the event locations. You would have to take a bus to museum area, zoo or anything else you would want to do. You probably be safe enough in the downtown area but you wouldn't want to venture to far afield. Now , if they could tie it in with are neighbors across the river, windsor, canada, that would make it a true international event. Canada is so close the police departments of both cities used to have a tug-of-war across the river.

steverk

03-05-2013, 15:16

I would like to see comments from folks who have personal experience who have attended the event in 2003.

I live in Houston and have attended the 2003 Championship in Houston as well as the 2012 Championship in St. Louis.

In 2003, they made the mistake of using the Astrodome for the pit areas and it was a disaster! Very hard to get the robots to and from the pits. On that score, St. Louis was undeniably better.

However, the situation has changed since 2003. The Astrodome has been all but abandoned and the Reliant Center has been built.

With 5 large halls and over 700,000 square feet in the center, there is no question that the Reliant Center is large enough to house the pit areas. Add in the space within the dome and the facility could hande championships even if FIRST decided to expand to 8 divisions. However, it is at least 200 yards across a the parking lot to get to the stadium, which means it would still be a problem to get the robots to and from the pit areas.

For those still pulling for Houston, there is hope. The county is considering plans to demolish the Astrodome. Once that is done, it is anybody's guess what additional development will occur.

IMO, an expansion of the Reliant Center to the point where it is attached, or nearly attached to the stadium is possible, but some years away. IF it happened, it would be an ideal location for a much larger FIRST championship. In the meantime, it doesn't make as good a venue as St. Louis.

Denise Bohnsack

03-05-2013, 16:33

I live in Houston and have attended the 2003 Championship in Houston as well as the 2012 Championship in St. Louis.

In 2003, they made the mistake of using the Astrodome for the pit areas and it was a disaster! Very hard to get the robots to and from the pits. On that score, St. Louis was undeniably better.

However, the situation has changed since 2003. The Astrodome has been all but abandoned and the Reliant Center has been built.

With 5 large halls and over 700,000 square feet in the center, there is no question that the Reliant Center is large enough to house the pit areas. Add in the space within the dome and the facility could hande championships even if FIRST decided to expand to 8 divisions. However, it is at least 200 yards across a the parking lot to get to the stadium, which means it would still be a problem to get the robots to and from the pit areas.

For those still pulling for Houston, there is hope. The county is considering plans to demolish the Astrodome. Once that is done, it is anybody's guess what additional development will occur.

IMO, an expansion of the Reliant Center to the point where it is attached, or nearly attached to the stadium is possible, but some years away. IF it happened, it would be an ideal location for a much larger FIRST championship. In the meantime, it doesn't make as good a venue as St. Louis.

Great. informative post. Thank you. I do not know if Houston has stepped forward with a bid for FIRST Championship, but maybe if the facilities are improved with connecting facilities it would be a good location for the future. When I was about 10, (40 years ago) I toured the Astrodome and it was touted as the 8th wonder of the world. And it was so impressive back then even more so later with an amusement park next door. (Astroworld) How times change! :) I will say, Houston is an incredible city and I love to visit whenever I can!

safiq10

04-05-2013, 22:42

Personally I say we just hold the CMP on the beach at hawaii

lorem3k

04-05-2013, 22:56

Personally I say we just hold the CMP on the beach at hawaii
Sadly, I doubt 2015's water game would be playable with salt water. Anything but distilled is an electrical hazard.

Alan Anderson

04-05-2013, 23:07

Sadly, I doubt 2015's water game would be playable with salt water. Anything but distilled is an electrical hazard.

Also, sand is a mechanical hazard. Gearboxes, bearings, pneumatic cylinders...pretty much any moving part is not going to be happy with little sharp bits of rock.

cjrazdar15

04-05-2013, 23:45

Personally I say we just hold the CMP on the beach at hawaii

Aside from the very "few" logistical issues that would definitely induce, I am in love with the idea!! ;) (But seriously, I would love that)

Ian Curtis

05-05-2013, 03:32

Also, sand is a mechanical hazard. Gearboxes, bearings, pneumatic cylinders...pretty much any moving part is not going to be happy with little sharp bits of rock.

Sounds like a great challenge for the 2019 Lunacy remix... Regolith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_regolith#Harmful_effects_of_lunar_dust)

waialua359

05-05-2013, 03:39

Koko Ed

05-05-2013, 05:29

I would love the idea of having it in Hawaii for obvious reasons.
However, the venues available are not large enough or cost effective for all of the teams in FIRST to participate.
VEX on the other hand.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
St. Louis, as much as I hate the cost, was very satisfactory this year and would love to see it continue there beyond 2014.
Atlanta was a better venue, but the city was boring with nothing to do and felt much more unsafe around the downtown area.

The only other city I see as cost effective, having the space to do it, and with lots to do for both students AND adults.....Las Vegas!

Atlanta seemed to have alot more to do than St. Louis does (though St. Louis does a much better job keeping the homeless population away from the event). You can't take the kids to a casino.
The Georgia Dome is the scariest place I have ever been after 10 pm but I did not realize til I read this article (http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/neighborhoods/crime-rates/25-most-dangerous-neighborhoods/) that the world championship is right next too the 22nd most dangerous neighborhood in America. That would explain why so many teams found their trailer almost broken into.
Does Lost Wages have a dome stadium of we're just talking another convention center?

AlexD744

05-05-2013, 05:47

Atlanta seemed to have alot more to do than St. Louis does (though St. Louis does a much better job keeping the homeless population away from the event). You can't take the kids to a casino.
The Georgia Dome is the scariest place I have ever been after 10 pm but I did not realize til I read this article (http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/neighborhoods/crime-rates/25-most-dangerous-neighborhoods/) that the world championship is right next too the 22nd most dangerous neighborhood in America. That would explain why so many teams found their trailer almost broken into.
Does Lost Wages have a dome stadium of we're just talking another convention center?

Do you mean Edward Jones Dome is next to the 22nd most dangerous neighborhood? That's what it seems from the article you linked.

Koko Ed

05-05-2013, 06:01

Do you mean Edward Jones Dome is next to the 22nd most dangerous neighborhood? That's what it seems from the article you linked.

yes.
I drove through there trying to get around the traffic leaving Friday. It made me nervous going down the street but I didn't realize it was that bad.
I'll think twice about taking that route next time.
I also notice Indianapolis makes the list a few time. They're so ready to host the championship now!

Foster

05-05-2013, 12:38

Also, sand is a mechanical hazard. Gearboxes, bearings, pneumatic cylinders...pretty much any moving part is not going to be happy with little sharp bits of rock.

But you have to admit, beach volleyball would be way cool. I've been a fan of the upcoming Water Game, but a Sand Game could be even better. Everyone has access to sand (well in the winter in the North, it's spread all over the roads).

George C

05-05-2013, 12:53

Sorry, the use of sand has been banned in schools in some jurisdictions (in Ontario at least) because of the potential for silicosis. Drywall compound and sandpaper are being investigated. I kid you not! I guess trips to the beach during spring break will be out too.

bduddy

05-05-2013, 13:28

Atlanta seemed to have alot more to do than St. Louis does (though St. Louis does a much better job keeping the homeless population away from the event). You can't take the kids to a casino.
The Georgia Dome is the scariest place I have ever been after 10 pm but I did not realize til I read this article (http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/neighborhoods/crime-rates/25-most-dangerous-neighborhoods/) that the world championship is right next too the 22nd most dangerous neighborhood in America. That would explain why so many teams found their trailer almost broken into.
Does Lost Wages have a dome stadium of we're just talking another convention center???? The listed neighborhood is 5 miles away from the dome.

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Delmar+Blvd+and+Euclid+Dr.,+St.+Louis,+ MO&daddr=Edwards+Jones+Dome&hl=en&ll=38.645333,-90.243545&spn=0.031909,0.066047&sll=38.306078,-106.249507&sspn=16.392867,33.815918&geocode=FdLFTQIdyLue-ilPLfsV1bTYhzEvSCTh2x8A_w%3BFWR9TQIdftWf-iHuyEDuYEuY4CnBxZ5LH7PYhzHuyEDuYEuY4A&t=h&mra=ls&z=15

Koko Ed

05-05-2013, 13:35

??? The listed neighborhood is 5 miles away from the dome.

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Delmar+Blvd+and+Euclid+Dr.,+St.+Louis,+ MO&daddr=Edwards+Jones+Dome&hl=en&ll=38.645333,-90.243545&spn=0.031909,0.066047&sll=38.306078,-106.249507&sspn=16.392867,33.815918&geocode=FdLFTQIdyLue-ilPLfsV1bTYhzEvSCTh2x8A_w%3BFWR9TQIdftWf-iHuyEDuYEuY4CnBxZ5LH7PYhzHuyEDuYEuY4A&t=h&mra=ls&z=15

The map (http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/mo/st-louis/cass-ave/) shows clearly that the niegborhood is right at the edge of the volunteer parking. Right where the teams leave thier trailers nearby as well.

Joe Ross

05-05-2013, 15:20

??? The listed neighborhood is 5 miles away from the dome.

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Delmar+Blvd+and+Euclid+Dr.,+St.+Louis,+ MO&daddr=Edwards+Jones+Dome&hl=en&ll=38.645333,-90.243545&spn=0.031909,0.066047&sll=38.306078,-106.249507&sspn=16.392867,33.815918&geocode=FdLFTQIdyLue-ilPLfsV1bTYhzEvSCTh2x8A_w%3BFWR9TQIdftWf-iHuyEDuYEuY4CnBxZ5LH7PYhzHuyEDuYEuY4A&t=h&mra=ls&z=15

That's the 12th most dangerous on the list. This is the 22nd:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=from:+Cass+Ave+and+9th+st.,+St.+Louis,+MO+t o:+Edwards+Jones+Dome&saddr=Cass+Ave+and+9th+st.,+St.+Louis,+MO&daddr=Edwards+Jones+Dome&hl=en&sll=38.645366,-90.243587&sspn=0.046523,0.090895&geocode=FT6aTQIdI9Gf-ik_JbZTJrPYhzFBMgyBaggj9g%3BFWR9TQIdftWf-iHuyEDuYEuY4CnBxZ5LH7PYhzHuyEDuYEuY4A&t=h&z=16

rmhooks573

05-05-2013, 17:55

I was talking to a FIRST senior mentor at the CMP this year, and they said FIRST has it narrowed down to 6 cities. Those being Detroit, St. Louis, Atlanta, Anaheim, Indianapolis, and one other city.

He said that each of those cities are soon going to have to formally present to FIRST about why they should get the contract.

I am personally rooting for Indianapolis :)

I'm interested in how Detroit would be able to accommodate the vast amount of FIRST with it's lack of hotels in the downtown area. But if they are in the running, then clearly something is good enough for it to work. And remember, we did host super bowl XL, so it's possible. Anaheim would be interesting as long as it is not at disneyland. Atlanta was great from my experience, so i would love to see it return there or Detroit.

cjrazdar15

05-05-2013, 18:35

I'm interested in how Detroit would be able to accommodate the vast amount of FIRST with it's lack of hotels in the downtown area. But if they are in the running, then clearly something is good enough for it to work. And remember, we did host super bowl XL, so it's possible.

I am interested in seeing how Detroit would accommodate the CMP, as well. They were in the running during the last bid, as well, but they dropped due to not being able to logistically handle all of FIRST.

cjrazdar15

05-05-2013, 18:38

Is Anaheim too far away for some teams in NE or Canada? I know the Vex World Championships has been there for two years now, so it seems like it would be able to work, but there must be some hardship in that travel...

EricH

05-05-2013, 18:52

Sounds like a great challenge for the 2019 Lunacy remix... Regolith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_regolith#Harmful_effects_of_lunar_dust)

Gimme a respirator, plenty of sealing devices, and I think you can have a robot competing on lunar floor.

Actually, come to think of it... http://www.nasa.gov/offices/education/centers/kennedy/technology/lunabotics.html

I did that as my senior project in college last year. Sealing the robot wasn't too bad, but the protective gear in the arena was brutal. Didn't have a problem until we either tripped a safety on a speed controller or fried the controller due to getting stuck, depending on round.

blackwood

06-05-2013, 00:22

Ryan Dognaux

06-05-2013, 10:38

For what it's worth I entered about 100 team cities into http://www.geomidpoint.com/
and came up with the midpoint being just west of Lafayette, IN.

You heard it first here folks, the 2015 Championship will be held on the campus of Purdue University with fields and pits being setup in the Armory, Lambert Fieldhouse, Mackey Arena & (weather permitting) Ross Ade Stadium. Thanks to blackwood for single-handedly making this important decision, Boiler Up!

Jill_ls101

06-05-2013, 11:16

For what it's worth I entered about 100 team cities into http://www.geomidpoint.com/
and came up with the midpoint being just west of Lafayette, IN.

I don't know that my sample was actually representative of all teams, but the "Center of Gravity" probably is in Indiana/Illinois area.

Finally! A location for champs where I can sleep in my own bed at night and ride my bike to the competition! ;) I'd never have to miss the competition again. :D

Tristan Lall

06-05-2013, 11:48

For what it's worth I entered about 100 team cities into http://www.geomidpoint.com/
and came up with the midpoint being just west of Lafayette, IN.

I don't know that my sample was actually representative of all teams, but the "Center of Gravity" probably is in Indiana/Illinois area.
Was that weighted by number of teams, number of team members, some other metric, or not weighted at all?

And what did you do with outliers (e.g. non-U.S. teams)?

ebmonon36

06-05-2013, 12:29

Mark McLeod

06-05-2013, 13:11

Using the latitude and longitude listed for each team in the current version of All_FRC_Teams_Ever.xls on team358.org, the COG for teams participating this year is 38.74859079,-89.08299209 (south central Illinois). Note that this spreadsheet was last updated 8/30/12 so it cuts off at team 4410.

This year's teams are actually in that spreadsheet way down at the bottom.
It was a running list though the season and I haven't posted the latest update that sorts them all properly. A couple of teams also dropped out and that isn't reflected properly yet. (updated online now)

I make the 2013 balancing point to be 88 miles due east of St. Louis in southern Illinois.

sarah_storer

06-05-2013, 14:58

What about in New Orleans? Robotics in the Superdome WOULD be pretty awesome:D

steverk

23-06-2013, 10:23

I do not know if Houston has stepped forward with a bid for FIRST Championship, but maybe if the facilities are improved with connecting facilities it would be a good location for the future.

The plans for the Astrodome have been released and you can read about them here: http://www.wfaa.com/news/texas-news/Houstons-Astrodome-will-not-be-demolished-212228131.html

So what do you think? Would this put Houston in the running for a future FIRST championship?

Note: It is expected to take 2-3 years for this work to be completed, so this wouldn't happen until 2016 at the earliest.

Walter Deitzler

23-06-2013, 10:29

What about in New Orleans? Robotics in the Superdome WOULD be pretty awesome:D

After being down there last year, I do not think that having it at the Superdome would be a very practical idea. The only place that I saw that could hold the pits was a big glass building nearby, and it was an outdoor commute to get to the dome. In New Orleans, an outdoor commute would not be a good idea, especially when the cargo you are moving is these robots.

On the other hand, in the 2015 water game, the robots will be waterproofed anyway, so it would not matter if it stormed! :rolleyes:

Edit: After doing some research, that building is the New Orleans arena. I am doing further research to see if there is an indoor commute that I missed (possibly underground).

Edit 2: I could not find anything about an indoor commute, but this pdf is a good read for anybody interested in maybe having the Superdome as a spot for Championships: http://www.neworleansarena.com/uploads/FacilitiesGuide072412.pdf

Anthony4004

29-06-2013, 12:00

My friend had a great idea, why not at NASA in cape kennedy? we can use the shuttle structure buildings, its not like they're using them anymore anyways. lol.

EricH

29-06-2013, 14:13

My friend had a great idea, why not at NASA in cape kennedy? we can use the shuttle structure buildings, its not like they're using them anymore anyways. lol.

Logistical NIGHTMARE.

Sure, you'd probably have more than enough space for all the fields and pits. However...

--You still have to rig the lighting, screens, sound... and you have to do it from scratch--those buildings would not be equipped for that.
--You have to figure out a way for the general public to join you, preferably without paying KSC admission fees.
--You have close to a thousand teams (FRC, FLL, FTC, JFLL), each with probably about 20 people, many with more, all descending on KSC at the same time. Security and parking and transport are gonna be issues.
--Hotel rooms within a decent range are not the most plentiful thing around, though there are quite a few places to stay if you get creative.

jwallace15

29-06-2013, 15:18

Sand is a mechanical hazard. Gearboxes, bearings, pneumatic cylinders...pretty much any moving part is not going to be happy with little sharp bits of rock.

I can only imagine the chaos that would ensue if we switched the floor back to the one used in Maize Craze...

Boe

07-09-2013, 14:19

Just found this online http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/news/2013/09/06/louisville-trying-to-steal-robotics.html

Looks like cities currently in the running are, according to this article:
Atlanta
Louiville
Detroit
Indianapolis
St. Louis

safiq10

07-09-2013, 17:13

How is the weather in the place listed above during april?

Steven Donow

07-09-2013, 17:40

What venues are there in Louisville? And I didn't know Detroit was in the running either.

Also, judging by the most recent tweet (https://twitter.com/FIRST2Indy2015/status/366947359999016962) from the Indianapolis FRC bid twitter (https://twitter.com/FIRST2Indy2015), it seems like the bids are finalized and the final decision process is in progress

Boe

07-09-2013, 17:59

Based on the article linked above it says that a decision is expected late september

75vs1885

26-10-2014, 22:10

According to Jim Beck at the Central Valley Regional, FIRST was considering holding it at the Anaheim Convention Center.

its way to small, dont forget they need 5 fields set up. plus the stands for 400 teams and then other spectators....then the pit!!

EricH

26-10-2014, 22:11

its way to small, dont forget they need 5 fields set up. plus the stands for 400 teams and then other spectators....then the pit!!

You do realize that 1) this thread is well over a year old, and 2) you miscounted and it's 7-9 fields and 600 teams, right?

Brandon Ha

26-10-2014, 22:19

EricH

26-10-2014, 22:40

I do not think that FIRST HQ has confirmed 600 teams for the remainder of the 2014/2015/2016 seasons... Maybe I am crazy but I thought that this was just speculation and nothing was confirmed as of "today"

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-2015-Championship-Volunteer-Recruitment --reference to "many more teams".

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-frank-answers-fridays-06062014 --Question about some of the details.

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/first-championship would have the details when they came up--note the multiple-venue system, indicating that some larger number of teams across all levels is more likely in order.

They've confirmed it, but they haven't confirmed HOW it's going to work. Yet.

ahecht

26-10-2014, 22:50

I was left with the following 13 options.

Chase Field in Phoenix, Arizona
Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, Texas
Edward Jones Dome in St. Louis, Missouri
Ford Field in Detroit, Michigan
Georgia Dome in Atlanta, Georgia
Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome in Minneapolis, Minnesota
Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis, Indiana
Mercedes-Benz Superdome in New Orleans, Louisiana
Reliant Stadium in Houston, Texas
Rogers Centre in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Safeco Field in Seattle, Washington
Tropicana Field in St. Petersburg, Florida
University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale, Arizona

I then searched for nearby convention centers for each of these stadiums. There does not appear to be a CC near Tropicana Field, and the ones near University of Phoenix Stadium and Reliant Stadium are over 5 miles away. The CCs near Cowboys Stadium, Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome, Safeco Field, Ford Field, and Mercedes-Benz Superdome do not appear to be connected to the stadiums (please correct me if I'm wrong). This leaves 5 options

Georgia Dome
Chase Field
Edward Jones Dome
Lucas Oil Stadium
Rogers Centre

You forgot covered college arenas. The ones that can hold enough people are:
Alamodome (San Antonio, TX)
Fargodome (North Dakota)
Carrier Dome (Syracuse, NY)
UNI-Dome (Cedar Falls, IA)
Walkup Skydome (Flagstaff, AZ)

Of those, only the UNI-Dome has an attached facility for the pits (the McLeod Center), but getting people to Cedar Falls would probably be an insurmountable obstacle.