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Caleb Sykes
06-27-2013, 02:04 PM
I'm trying to understand why the scoreboard does not differentiate disc points scored in TELEOP and disc points scored in AUTO.

To the best of my knowledge, the AUTO discs and TELEOP discs are counted separately by the field crew after each match in order to determine final scores. Moreover, the FMS apparently already records each alliances AUTO points for every match because each team has their cumulative AUTO points as a tiebreaker for seeding.
There is clearly enough space to include 2 (or even 3) additional scoring partitions if FIRST so chose to do so.

The only reason that I can think of is that FIRST does not believe that people are interested enough in the AUTO score. The simplification of scoring to 3 categories (DISC POINTS, CLIMB POINTS, FOUL POINTS) keeps the scoreboard looking clean-cut.

For me, I would love to see more information after each match. Also, seeding is dependent on the team's cumulative AUTO score as the second sort, so this information can be the difference between a team being seeded 3rd or 10th. I don't think that this is too much information, especially since penalties did not occur in most (I think) matches.

just for fun, here is a final scoreboard from this year and a paint version of the added division.

ehochstein
06-27-2013, 03:40 PM
To the best of my knowledge, the AUTO discs and TELEOP discs are counted separately by the field crew after each match in order to determine final scores. Moreover, the FMS apparently already records each alliances AUTO points for every match because each team has their cumulative AUTO points as a tiebreaker for seeding.


You are correct, the system does indeed count both auto and teleop discs. Scorekeepers can manually go in an change both amounts after the match.

The only reason that I can think of is that FIRST does not believe that people are interested enough in the AUTO score. The simplification of scoring to 3 categories (DISC POINTS, CLIMB POINTS, FOUL POINTS) keeps the scoreboard looking clean-cut.


I think FIRST wants everyone to know the full score, perhaps the suggestion to add auto points to the final score screen has not been been presented yet? Clearly there is enough space on the screen but you also have to take into account how would adding "Auto points" and "Teleop points" affect the common non-FIRST affiliated observer?

Michael Hill
06-29-2013, 10:08 AM
You are correct, the system does indeed count both auto and teleop discs. Scorekeepers can manually go in an change both amounts after the match.



I think FIRST wants everyone to know the full score, perhaps the suggestion to add auto points to the final score screen has not been been presented yet? Clearly there is enough space on the screen but you also have to take into account how would adding "Auto points" and "Teleop points" affect the common non-FIRST affiliated observer?

I wouldn't worry about non-FIRST affiliated observers. They will either figure it out or someone will explain it to them. In reality, 90%+ of people there are affiliated with FIRST and the information is relevant to them.

orangemoore
06-29-2013, 12:04 PM
Being someone that was always busy at competitions it would be nice to have the screen say in words (or some visual cue) who won. I don't really have the energy to figure out which number is higher. This may sound lazy but I was basically never outside of the pits during the competition and the only time I had a break was on Thursday and Saturday after our alliance got eliminated. It was a great experience that our team was an alliance captain.

Caleb Sykes
06-29-2013, 01:31 PM
it would be nice to have the screen say in words (or some visual cue) who won. I don't really have the energy to figure out which number is higher.

Interesting. I know that sometimes in the pits, there is a screen showing the current match and the scores at the end. This screen (if existent) is often very small and hard to see from some areas in the pit. Is this what you are talking about? Or are you referring to the physical exhaustion that comes from working in the pit all day? because I have been there;)

Caleb Sykes
06-29-2013, 01:53 PM
For anyone reading, I only meant for the poll to refer to TELEOP points vs. AUTO points. Feel free to use this thread to discuss other changes to the FMS scoreboard, but use the poll only for this one.

Thanks

cbale2000
06-29-2013, 02:09 PM
I agree with the addition of auto points, it would do a great deal to show who scored what when. In regards to what orangemoore suggested, it might be a good idea to have a sort of "victor" splash page that pops up first when the scores are finalized, and then transitions into the regular score screen after a few seconds.


Additionally, I would like it if foul points were clarified on the scoreboard, since in every other sport, a foul indicates a penalty on your team, a random observer at a FIRST event might see 20 foul points on red alliance score and think red caused the penalty (heck, sometimes it even confuses me).

Siri
06-29-2013, 08:00 PM
I agree with the addition of auto points, it would do a great deal to show who scored what when. In regards to what orangemoore suggested, it might be a good idea to have a sort of "victor" splash page that pops up first when the scores are finalized, and then transitions into the regular score screen after a few seconds.


Additionally, I would like it if foul points were clarified on the scoreboard, since in every other sport, a foul indicates a penalty on your team, a random observer at a FIRST event might see 20 foul points on red alliance score and think red caused the penalty (heck, sometimes it even confuses me).They could probably outline the two boxes of the winning alliance in gold or something. It's some reprogramming, but it would be either way, so there's maybe something to be said for keeping the "highlight" on a single screenshot.

I'm all for the auto/teleop differentiation. It's even already in the Twitter feed, just not on the board. A different term for the fouls would be nice, but I can't think of anything that fits easily. "Fouls Received" would be clearer, but maybe too long.

cbale2000
06-29-2013, 10:20 PM
... "Fouls Received" would be clearer, but maybe too long.

Its only a 3 letter difference from the current "Foul Points", so I doubt it would be an issue.

DogIsGod
07-18-2013, 07:51 PM
I recently went to a game with someone who had very little experience with anything FRC, and they had figured everything out by the third match. I feel like there are enough people who know what is going on to explain to those who don't, or they will just ignore it.

evanperryg
07-21-2013, 01:08 PM
I love this idea. Also, along with the whole auto/teleop score separation, I think the aesthetic of the FMS scoreboard needs some work. Some sort of transparency so you can see the field on screen would be one of many possible improvements. I hate to put it like this, because you shouldn't need to rely on match scores for scouting, but having auto and teleop scores separated would make it easier to clarify scouting data. For example, if you didn't see if a team got in 2 or 3 discs during auto (and other bots missed, so you can't just check the ground to see if there is an out of place disc) you can check with the other 2 scouters for that alliance and compare their data to the posted score.

They could probably outline the two boxes of the winning alliance in gold or something. It's some reprogramming, but it would be either way, so there's maybe something to be said for keeping the "highlight" on a single screenshot. I'm all for the auto/teleop differentiation. It's even already in the Twitter feed, just not on the board. A different term for the fouls would be nice, but I can't think of anything that fits easily. "Fouls Received" would be clearer, but maybe too long.
this this this this this this.
In my team's rather epic (letting my ego loose here) match scouting/match prediction/pit scouting/pre scouting/OPR calculation/match schedule/live pick list optimization(this part is in development) spreadsheet, we have the winning scores/predicted scores automatically turn bold so that the win prediction is easier to check at a glance.
It's good news that the auto/teleop data is already in the twitter feed. That means that the foundation is already there and it just needs to be implemented.
The fouls thing is a little convoluted. I thought at first that the foul points were points subtracted from that alliance's score (i.e. if blue alliance had 6 foul points under its points list, 6 points was subtracted from blue alliance's score). Some rewording would be nice, though I am not sure what the best phrase would be.

I wouldn't worry about non-FIRST affiliated observers. They will either figure it out or someone will explain it to them. In reality, 90%+ of people there are affiliated with FIRST and the information is relevant to them.
And a lot of those few non-FIRST observers are likely coming with a FIRST-affiliated friend, who hasn't shut up about the game since February :D

EricH
07-21-2013, 01:13 PM
The fouls thing is a little convoluted. I thought at first that the foul points were points subtracted from that alliance's score (i.e. if blue alliance had 6 foul points under its points list, 6 points was subtracted from blue alliance's score). Some rewording would be nice, though I am not sure what the best phrase would be.


Before 2012, that was the case. Penalties, as they were called then, were subtracted from the score of the alliance that committed them. In 2012, that was changed to fit the basketball theme. Apparently, the Foul system was well-liked enough to make at least one return.

Call it "Opp. Fouls" (noting that they're opposing alliance fouls resulting in points).