2014 Arkansas Regional

[JTN]

The venue for the 2014 Arkansas Regional has moved to Harding University in Searcy, AR. The new venue has more parking spots, more room for teams, and is closer to the interstates in central AR. The event will hold 48 teams and is only 45 miles from Little Rock, AR. The event dates are March 6-8, 2014. Please ask any questions here!

[Mrcope9]

Are there hotels in Searcy? Or will we be commuting from Little Rock?

[waialua359]

Sounds like the making of another awesome regional and with members of Team 16 in charge of the event, I'm sure they'll guarantee it.
You can bet we will be there in the next several years.:)

[Blackphantom91]

Nice work Meredith and Team 16! Can't wait to come down and visit. Hopefully I can volunteer!

[waialua359]

It would be fantastic to have your team. We are shopping a Week 5 event and would certainly like to join you!

Meredith, we are a week 4 event this year.
You folks should really come one day!

Koko Ed is coming this year to volunteer at our regional. :)

[waialua359]

Sorry, Hawaii is week 5 and Ed can't come now!

[Blackphantom91]

Malcolm,

Hope to see you as a volunteer. Harding is home to FRC 3937, Breakaway, and they will also be very busy running the event.

And I understand you are enjoying your VISTA experience - glad you get to hang out with my daughter, Riley. :)

Yeah most alumni just flocked together on accident. can't wait for the event!

[dwodrich]

1706 Ratchet Rockers are in...can't wait!

[Peyton Yeung]

45 can't wait to make the trip

[geomapguy]

3666 will be there!!

[holygrail]

1939 is excited about making the trip to Arkansas again this year!

[Meredith Novak]

We will be welcoming teams from 9 states so far!

[Alan Anderson]

45 can't wait to make the trip

How do you know? You're supposed to be at college! :-P

Since the Illinois/Indiana region expects to go to the District model in 2015, the TechnoKats team decided that traveling outside Indiana was important this year. It'll be fun playing with so many teams we've never met before.

[Meredith Novak]

Since the Illinois/Indiana region expects to go to the District model in 2015, the TechnoKats team decided that traveling outside Indiana was important this year. It'll be fun playing with so many teams we've never met before.

So glad you decided to join us for your last venture abroad!

[Peyton Yeung]

How do you know? You're supposed to be at college! :-P



I have friends on the inside. :yikes:

[Meredith Novak]

And now we have 10 states represented!

[Mr V]

And now we have 10 states represented!


Wow! That is impressive, is that a new record for your event?

[Meredith Novak]

Wow! That is impressive, is that a new record for your event?

We had 8 states last year.

[Mr V]

We had 8 states last year.

I must say I'm jealous since we are moving to the district system I'll only get to see teams from WA and OR and won't get to see my friends from ID, MT and Greece anymore. We also won't get the teams from HI and CA that used to make appearances at events in our area.

Heck with the larger number of smaller events I won't even get to see many of the teams from WA and OR unless them make it to the district CMP.

[holygrail]

1939 is excited about making the trip to Arkansas again this year!

[CalTran]

Team 2410'll miss all y'all this year! We're so sorry that we're not coming back :( We try to at least keep some variety to the traveling regionals we go to so our students are always going somewhere "new", but I'm sure we'll be coming back to Arkansas in the near future!

[eli2410]

Team 2410'll miss all y'all this year! We're so sorry that we're not coming back :( We try to at least keep some variety to the traveling regionals we go to so our students are always going somewhere "new", but I'm sure we'll be coming back to Arkansas in the near future!

Actually Calvin, the reasons we aren't going to Arkansas doesn't include the "new" places argument. The reasons we aren't going are:

We don't want back-to-back weekends (KC is the next weekend).
We want, if possible, for KC to be our first regional and our out of town one to be our second.

We had a lot of fun at Razorback last year and wanted to go back, but the scheduling didn't work out. So instead, we are going to OKC.

[Mrcope9]

3991 has been wait-listed for Arkansas. We really want to make the trip up there this year. Any word on if capacity will increase from 39?

[Meredith Novak]

3991 has been wait-listed for Arkansas. We really want to make the trip up there this year. Any word on if capacity will increase from 39?

Matthew,

I am waiting to hear from all the Arkansas teams outstanding and rookies that are still registering before I start clearing the wait list. But we should be able to get you in. We are also looking to increase our initial capacity which is actually 48. Thanks for your patience; hope to have a resolution for you in the next few days.

Meredith

[Mrcope9]

Matthew,

I am waiting to hear from all the Arkansas teams outstanding and rookies that are still registering before I start clearing the wait list. But we should be able to get you in. We are also looking to increase our initial capacity which is actually 48. Thanks for your patience; hope to have a resolution for you in the next few days.

Meredith

Thanks Meredith!

Can't wait for the event

[Mongai]

Oooh, my team registered apparently. I'm excited that 935 is gonna head down!

[Meredith Novak]

We are very happy to have 935 as well!

[jeser#1772]

Matthew,

I am waiting to hear from all the Arkansas teams outstanding and rookies that are still registering before I start clearing the wait list. But we should be able to get you in. We are also looking to increase our initial capacity which is actually 48. Thanks for your patience; hope to have a resolution for you in the next few days.

Meredith

have any chance to get a spot in the third pick?

we have a Brazilian rookie team on the waitlist and want to add 1772 as well?:o

fingers crossed! :P

[Meredith Novak]

have any chance to get a spot in the third pick?

we have a Brazilian rookie team on the waitlist and want to add 1772 as well?:o

fingers crossed! :P

We will do our very best. The rookie is now 5206 and confirmed for Arkansas.

[Meredith Novak]

And now we have 10 states represented!

And Brazil!

[jeser#1772]

We will do our very best. The rookie is now 5206 and confirmed for Arkansas.

Good news!

thank you! :)

[geomapguy]

Looks like we have three teams from Louisiana!! 2992, 3666, and 3991!!

[S.P.A.M.er 17]

Hello from Florida. The Arkansas regional just so happens to be during spring break for me and a buddy of mine. Since there are no Florida competitions that week, we would like to attend the regional and volunteer. If there are any other volunteers that were looking to split a room, let me know. Meredith was nice enough to give me a list of hotels in the area with their rates, so I do have that information if you are curious. Please PM me if you are interested.

[Canon reeves]

Very excited to have this regional in our home town as well, it will definitly be nice to save on travel. There are quite a few nice hotels in Searcy, not sure if enough to house everyone from the regional but there are towns around 15 minutes out with plenty of hotels. If your team needs help with finding a hotel PM and I can point you in the right direction. Good luck to everybody, hope to see yall there!

[geomapguy]

Very excited to have this regional in our home town as well, it will definitly be nice to save on travel. There are quite a few nice hotels in Searcy, not sure if enough to house everyone from the regional but there are towns around 15 minutes out with plenty of hotels. If your team needs help with finding a hotel PM and I can point you in the right direction. Good luck to everybody, hope to see yall there!

I think we decided to go with the Holiday Inn Express

[Brennen3828]

Team 3160 is also going to Arkansas Regional! There is a lot of new rookies in the whole state of Arkansas this year! And there is a Brazilian team coming also! Can't wait to meet them!

[geomapguy]

Team 3160 is also going to Arkansas Regional! There is a lot of new rookies in the whole state of Arkansas this year! And there is a Brazilian team coming also! Can't wait to meet them!

Did you seriously just post the same thing in two different threads??

Next time, please try to refrain from doing so..

[Danny Diaz]

418 from Austin, TX is looking forward to coming to Arkansas! Wow, I haven't been in Arkansas since I was a little kid. What are some good burger joints in Searcy? Our team coach loves to go to a good greasy-spoon at least once while we're traveling for competition.

Are there any hole-in-the-wall places that locals love to go to?

-Danny

[Meredith Novak]

418 from Austin, TX is looking forward to coming to Arkansas! Wow, I haven't been in Arkansas since I was a little kid. What are some good burger joints in Searcy? Our team coach loves to go to a good greasy-spoon at least once while we're traveling for competition.

Are there any hole-in-the-wall places that locals love to go to?

-Danny

Hey Danny! As a non-local vegetarian, I am in no position to answer your very important question. I forwarded it to the local planning committee. I will certainly let you know what I find out. Btw, Urban Spoon says a place called "Frozen Delite" has the most popular burger. Sounds hole-in-the-wall enough. :rolleyes:

[Mark McLeod]

Ice cream, where can I get ice cream after hours?

[Meredith Novak]

Ice cream, where can I get ice cream after hours?

After hours in Searcy? That is a funny concept. But there is a world famous ice cream company located about 5 minutes from the venue: http://www.yarnells.com/tradition/

[Fielding S.]

Btw, Urban Spoon says a place called "Frozen Delite" has the most popular burger. Sounds hole-in-the-wall enough. :rolleyes:

As a Searcy native I can tell you that Frozen Delite is definitely the place to go. It has great burgers and amazing ice cream and shakes.

[Meredith Novak]

As a Searcy native I can tell you that Frozen Delite is definitely the place to go. It has great burgers and amazing ice cream and shakes.

Well, there you go. Sounds like we need to ask them to be a sponsor. And I love Urban Spoon.

[Jefferson]

As a Searcy native I can tell you that Frozen Delite is definitely the place to go. It has great burgers and amazing ice cream and shakes.

I'm so happy we are getting these all important details worked out prior to the regional!
:D
Thanks

[Meredith Novak]

I'm so happy we are getting these all important details worked out prior to the regional!
:D
Thanks

Hey, Jefferson! It is all about the ice cream...and autonomous...you on that? Three scoops, please.

[Canon reeves]

And if you are craving something sweet for breakfast, Daylight Doughnuts has some great doughnuts and 99 cent large coffee! It's maybe 2 minutes away from the competition.

[Breakaway3937]

We have several BBQ places here. Whistle Stop is one of my favorites. It is located about 10 minutes from the venue. Frozen D's (Frozen Delight) is a great place to eat serving ice cream and burgers. Mattie's Café is on the square two minutes from the venue. That would be your greasy spoon. They serve a good line up for breakfast. El Almacén (The Warehouse) has authentic Mexican food very good. The Bulldog is another local favorite about 12-15 minutes north of the venue in Bald Knob. They have great burgers and ice cream as well. Also in Bald Knob is Who Dat's Cajun Restaurant. FroYo is a great place for frozen yogurt after hours. Brick Oven pizza has a great menu, a little pricy, but there pizza is outstanding. We have a Japanese steak house here called Fuji's. They have both traditional seating and group seating where they will cook right in front of you. You can order from The Mixing Bowl and pick up dinner or lunch. They have some of the best Southern Style food I have ever tasted. There is also a good Italian style eatery called Pasta Grill. And of course, we have all the fast food and chains: Sonic, McDonalds, Burger King, Little Ceaser's, Chili's, Colton's, Quiznos, Subway, etc.

Hope this helps out!

[Mark McLeod]

I see where the Lowe's is located.
Any recommendations on other local sources for hardware, aluminum stock, and other robot material?

[holygrail]

Does anyone have information about a live stream of the Arkansas regional? With so many teams traveling from out of town, I'm sure there will be a lot of interest from friends and family back home.

[Meredith Novak]

Does anyone have information about a live stream of the Arkansas regional? With so many teams traveling from out of town, I'm sure there will be a lot of interest from friends and family back home.

Gavin, we will have a webcast.

[holygrail]

Excellent! Thanks Meredith for the prompt reply. Our team can't wait for the event!

[Canon reeves]

I see where the Lowe's is located.
Any recommendations on other local sources for hardware, aluminum stock, and other robot material?

There is an Ace Hardware across town.

[geomapguy]

Will there be a machine shop on site?

[Breakaway3937]

I see where the Lowe's is located.
Any recommendations on other local sources for hardware, aluminum stock, and other robot material?

We have a Fastenal open to the public located just two minutes from the venue. The Lowe's is located 8 minutes from the venue. The Ace Hardware store is located approximately 8 minutes in the opposite direction. There is a Tractor Supply store close to the Lowe's. All these stores are within 8 minutes of the venue.

[Breakaway3937]

Will there be a machine shop on site?

Yes, the machine shop on campus will be utilized. It is less than a half a mile from the venue and we will have a constant stream of parts coming back and forth to help with demand.

[Jefferson]

Hey, Jefferson! It is all about the ice cream...and autonomous...you on that? Three scoops, please.

Right. Three hot scoops of ice cream.

;)

[holygrail]

Does anyone know if a machine shop will be available? At least a drill press and a couple of decent saws would be really nice. If not, no big deal, but I want to make sure we plan accordingly.

Thanks to all involved in setting up the Arkansas regional this year.

[geomapguy]

Does anyone know if a machine shop will be available? At least a drill press and a couple of decent saws would be really nice. If not, no big deal, but I want to make sure we plan accordingly.

Thanks to all involved in setting up the Arkansas regional this year.

Here ya go! From their website I can tell that the University has at least a band saw, and some mills and lathes.

Yes, the machine shop on campus will be utilized. It is less than a half a mile from the venue and we will have a constant stream of parts coming back and forth to help with demand.

[S.P.A.M.er 17]

Would anyone attending the Arkansas Regional be willing to trade shirts? I have a couple of SPAM shirts that I would be willing to trade. They are all large, fun (black) shirts that I have from the past couple of years. PM me if you are interested. I look forward to volunteering at a new event (for me), and see you all soon :)

[geomapguy]

Will anyone have a heat gun?? We're going to need to heat form some pvc pipe on Thursday...

-thanks

[Meredith Novak]

Will anyone have a heat gun?? We're going to need to heat form some pvc pipe on Thursday...

-thanks

Bomb Squad has a heat gun and we will also have a full machine shop.

[45Auto]

Team 2992 from Mandeville, Louisiana, is looking forward to coming to Searcy for our very first away from home regional!

It seems that scouting will be extremely important this year. Unfortunately we can afford to bring only a very small travel team, which will leave only 3 or 4 kids for match scouting duties.

Are there any teams out there who would be willing to allow us to work with them and share scouting duties and data? We'll have about 4 kids available to contribute to your scouting system.

[Danny Diaz]

418 does "video match scouting" as our primary scouting duty. We take match videos and save them electronically as AVI files. If everything goes well, we should be able to do this at Arkansas. If we do, we'd be happy to share our videos with you - bring a 4GB flash drive to the scouting area (press box) and we'll make you a copy. The videos and pictures we take of robots should be fairly easy to share.

We're also going to be using the paper scouting that SPAM provided on CD - the "Poor Man's Scouting". I don't think that will be easy to share (unless you bring a camera and take pictures of the scouting sheets). If you want to help us do the match scouting, we'll figure out some way to share that info with you too.

-Danny

[mrwright]

Team 2992 from Mandeville, Louisiana, is looking forward to coming to Searcy for our very first away from home regional!

It seems that scouting will be extremely important this year. Unfortunately we can afford to bring only a very small travel team, which will leave only 3 or 4 kids for match scouting duties.

Are there any teams out there who would be willing to allow us to work with them and share scouting duties and data? We'll have about 4 kids available to contribute to your scouting system.

Team SCREAM would love to have your scouts helping out. I sent you a PM.

[Canon reeves]

Our team is considering paper file scouting, I'd have to ask but I'm sure our mentor would be ok with it.

[vhcook]

Are there any teams out there who would be willing to allow us to work with them and share scouting duties and data? We'll have about 4 kids available to contribute to your scouting system.

The Kuh-nig-its would also be happy to work with you. We are planning to use an electronic system, so getting data extracts for you shouldn't be a problem.

[45Auto]

Thanks to all of the teams who've offered to let us share scouting! I'll be in touch with you next Thursday.

Good luck!

[jmcrawford45]

I just looked through all the reveal videos that teams attending Arkansas posted; this looks like a very competitive group of teams, even by FIRST's standards.

Here's what I'm seeing:

Two robots with three ball autonomous routines, and several more that go for two. Of these teams, most seem like they could succeed in hot goal targeting. Don't be surprised if 55+ point auto runs become the "norm" in most elimination matches.

Soft throwing and secure catching: every team attending Arkansas that I have seen seems to have either a solid catcher or a soft lob option, making truss/catch combos much more likely to succeed. I feel like this part of the game was forgotten by a few teams in Week 1 Events. I witnessed several matches where teams were trailing by less than ten and lost because they wanted to get a high goal shot instead of the easy truss points. I don't expect we will see as much of that in Searcy.


My predictions:

If nothing significant changes in the rules, many of the juggernaut robots at the event might be slowly worn down and broken by standard issue "kit bots" playing defense. I believe that the previous high score of 261 points (I'm not counting fouls here) will be broken, possibly multiple times. Maybe I'm wrong, but I am super excited about seeing these bots in action.

Best of luck,

Jared Crawford
Jackson Redneck Robotics Team 4092

[Danny Diaz]

I just looked through all the reveal videos that teams attending Arkansas posted; this looks like a very competitive group of teams, even by FIRST's standards.

Do you have a list of links to these reveal videos you care to share? I've only been able to count them on one hand so far for Arkansas...

-Danny

[geomapguy]

We don't have reveal video but we have a HOT goal auto and we'll be working on a two ball

[jmcrawford45]

I have only seen pictures or videos of 8 robots attending the regional thus far (so I guess I can only count them on my fingers too.) However, team 3666 has seemed pretty confident about their bot, and I assume that 45 will have an impressive bot as well. Pictures of 832's bot and 4490's bot are sprinkled throughout CD (you might have to dig deep for these as I can't find them.) If memory serves right, 4490 has a pretty big net to catch and dump into the low goal.
As for 4092, I wish we would have done a reveal video, but we were pressed for time. We will be tweaking our 3 ball auto at the regional, along with 2 and 1 ball "hot goal" auto routines. Not a good catcher, but we can inbound easily. We have some "tricks" in our bag using our shooter, giving it options ranging from 2 to 27 feet for both the high and low goal. Pickup is vertical roller intake, and drive train is AM14U long chassis with two speed transmission. Here's a practice video that doesn't show our "tricks" being implemented: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L3d64EIVN0&feature=youtu.be I apologize for the atrocious driving; it was his first time driving the robot. With an experienced driver, the pickup takes 1.6 seconds from contact with the ball to being ready to shoot.
Also, 1209 posted a practice video very early in the build season. I can't find it now, but their robot was roughly the size of the low goal and uses hooks to grab and dump into the low goal.

Here are the videos I could find:

Team 2992: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg96L-kP104&feature=c4-overview&list=UUbtK3A1VwXHrlBorWUywqKw
Team 16: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcsi4zBwIjc
Team 1939: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfsfdWAMzeU

I guess I don't need to tell you that there are pics of PHirewire on CD. Can't wait to see it in action.

Jared Crawford
Jackson Redneck Robotics Team 4092

[Meredith Novak]

And here is 3937 (the venue host) team's reveal video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJi7qda5AIc

[Canon reeves]

Team Scream's robot- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7ByQeF80XI
And our robot- http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/39654 the netting will be different but it is the same design.
This will be a great and competitive regional! I could see a record being broken!

[geomapguy]

Team 3666's robot
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/39755

[Canon reeves]

I'm really hoping that most teams at our regional will know a decent amount about the game, especially about the human player aspects. One of the things that stood out to me last year was the abundance of gracious professionalism by the attendees at our regional, really looking forward to seeing that again!

[Clayton E]

Here is Metal Mayhem's reveal video

Team 2352 Robot Reveal (http://youtu.be/oElMwoxZohs)

[geomapguy]

Does anyone have any extra schedule 80 pvc they can bring? Can't seem to find any in the area and too late to order from McMaster now..

Any help appreciated

[vhcook]

Does anyone have any extra schedule 80 pvc they can bring? Can't seem to find any in the area and too late to order from McMaster now..

Any help appreciated

The Lowes in Searcy (http://www.lowes.com/Pipe-Fittings/PVC-Pipe-Fittings/PVC-Pipe/_/N-1z0zp1h/pl?storeNumber=1623&URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lowes.com%2FPipe-Fittings%2FPVC-Pipe-Fittings%2FPVC-Pipe%2F_%2FN-1z0zp1h%2Fpl%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar|1%2 3!%26N%255B%255D%3D1z0yi0r%26N%255B%255D%3D1z0zp1h&selectedLocalStoreBeanArray=[com.lowes.commerce.storelocator.beans.LocatorStore Bean%406c126c12]&ipTrail=144.230.63.52&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1#!&N[]=1z0yi0r&N[]=1z0zp1h) appears to carry 3/4" and 1" Sched 80. You didn't indicate what diameter you're looking for.

[Jefferson]

For anybody interested in next year's control system:

Next to the Bomb Squad pit will be a pit for the our 2015 Alpha Testing robot. Stop by and quiz us about it. We have it set up to see the new Power Distribution Board (PDB), roboRIO, Voltage Regulator Module (VRM), and Pneumatic Control Module (PCM). They are all on display on top of the robot.

I'd love to show it in action, unfortunately we are at a point in the development with FIRST that has rendered it temporarily nonoperational.

[geomapguy]

Where exactly will the regional be held on the campus? Can't seem to find that info from FIRST's website.

[Canon reeves]

It is called the Ganus Center, here is the campus link http://www.harding.edu/map/pdf/hardingsearcycampusmap.pdf the center is building #5, and the shop is building #29. The lowes in town has a full isle of pvc material, there is also a supplier in town, and an Ace Hardware with plenty of pvc things.

[Meredith Novak]

Just sent to teams:

"I have had a few questions about travel to Searcy following our winter weather Sunday. We came down from Mountain Home (near the Missouri border) today with a large truck and made it fine. Roads to the South of Central Arkansas should be perfectly clear. I understand there is ice and traffic issues from Searcy to Memphis. Temperatures are expected to go above freezing tomorrow and approach 50s the rest of the week.

There are several of you who have issues with your robots being locked in schools that are closed, not being able to go on school trips when school is out, etc. Please get with your principals and mentors and try to work out a solution. I am suggesting that at least one student team member and a mentor or parent at least transports the robot by Thursday so that we can get you inspected and ready to play Friday. By all indications, travel Thursday and Friday should be fine all over the state.

If you are near enough to Searcy, I can look into sending a truck to fetch your robots as well. We will do everything in our power to make sure your teams get to celebrate their hard work.

Please let me know if you have issues and I will do my very best to help you come to a solution."

[Jefferson]

Go to bed Meredith. And tell John those old man retired hours aren't gunna cut it for the regional. He's gunna have to get out of bed before 1100.
:D

In all seriousness, thanks for the info.

Teams: Y'all be safe out there. Arkansas road crews aren't well trained/equipped for icy conditions.

[Meredith Novak]

Go to bed Meredith. And tell John those old man retired hours aren't gunna cut it for the regional. He's gunna have to get out of bed before 1100.
:D

In all seriousness, thanks for the info.

Teams: Y'all be safe out there. Arkansas road crews aren't well trained/equipped for icy conditions.

No worries. I am actually under orders to sleep in. I just get in the way during production set up! And John is crazy, in case you didn't already know. But at least we will have a full practice field. 'Cause a 17' U-Haul truck is a great vehicle on unplowed Arkansas mountain roads. I know FRC 16 will get here okay, because, well the rest of you are kind of crazy too. Concerned about the cautious people. :(

[Mark McLeod]

Here is the event map for entrance, unloading areas, car parking, bus & trailer parking.

[Gary Dillard]

Gavin, we will have a webcast.

Any update on where we can find the webcast? The event website (http://www.arfirst.org/frc.htm) from the FIRST regional page says:

More information will be available soon as the event website is launched

I have to input these to our sponsor's IT department so they're not blocked by policy - last weekend I ran up my hotspot minutes getting around it.

[Andrew Schreiber]

No worries. I am actually under orders to sleep in. I just get in the way during production set up! And John is crazy, in case you didn't already know. But at least we will have a full practice field. 'Cause a 17' U-Haul truck is a great vehicle on unplowed Arkansas mountain roads. I know FRC 16 will get here okay, because, well the rest of you are kind of crazy too. Concerned about the cautious people. :(

And we all know how well you listen...

Wish it wasn't the same weekend I was competing, could be a fun regional to watch.

[Meredith Novak]

And we all know how well you listen...


I know, right? At least I have a large, lovely suite to pace around in. Working out travel details for teams and robots, but I am about to head over. John is tired of me calling him. I should post pictures, but you would all laugh at what 4 inches of white stuff does to us!

Good luck to 125 this weekend.

[rbrown1]

Make sure you take him over a thermos of coffee and he will forgive you for all the calls.

[Meredith Novak]

Make sure you take him over a thermos of coffee and he will forgive you for all the calls.

He has a nice Keurig machine in the office. :)

[Meredith Novak]

Set-up is proceeding well in Arkansas. A bit behind because of the weather and we are spending a lot of time on the phone trying to work out travel with teams.

#arkansasregional on Twitter if you want to help make it loud!

[geomapguy]

Set-up is proceeding well in Arkansas. A bit behind because of the weather and we are spending a lot of time on the phone trying to work out travel with teams.

#arkansasregional on Twitter if you want to help make it loud!

We're on our way....hopefully we will make it before 7:30

[Meredith Novak]

We're on our way....hopefully we will make it before 7:30

No worries. We are allowing flexibility due to travel conditions. We should be here to let you in. Be safe!

[scribblemaniac]

Still no sign of a webcast, am I missing something or is it simply not there? I have gone through thebluealliance and the event's website

[JDNovak]

Code Red is hosting the Arkansas webcast. We'll post a link as soon as we can. We don't plan to webcast until Friday.

[scribblemaniac]

Code Red is hosting the Arkansas webcast. We'll post a link as soon as we can. We don't plan to webcast until Friday.

Okay thanks! Good luck to everyone!

[eli2410]

Code Red is hosting the Arkansas webcast. We'll post a link as soon as we can. We don't plan to webcast until Friday.

Do you mind putting the link to it on Blue Alliance's website?

[Meredith Novak]

Do you mind putting the link to it on Blue Alliance's website?

It is supposed to be. Thanks for asking!

[Meredith Novak]

Arkansas Regional is streaming at Code Red: http://www.coderedrobotics.com/webcast/

Just sent the link to Blue Alliance Gameday. Hopefully it will be there shortly.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Arkansas Regional is streaming at Code Red: http://www.coderedrobotics.com/webcast/

Just sent the link to Blue Alliance Gameday. Hopefully it will be there shortly.

Do you know which webcast it is? They're numbered 1-4 but I can't find where it says which events they are.

[eli2410]

Do you know which webcast it is? They're numbered 1-4 but I can't find where it says which events they are.

It's the bottom left one. It said so at one point during the webcast and I recognize the announcer.

[Meredith Novak]

It is webcast 3 on Code Red. Thanks for asking, guys!

[ToddF]

Can they fix the split screen picture?

[Meredith Novak]

The stream is on Blue Alliance GameDay.

[Navid Shafa]

The stream is on Blue Alliance GameDay.

Still getting: "This stream is currently unavailable on this domain at the broadcaster's request"

[Meredith Novak]

Still getting: "This stream is currently unavailable on this domain at the broadcaster's request"

I just saw and I don't know what to do. I will try to find out before tomorrow. Still on Code Red at least.

[orangemoore]

I just saw and I don't know what to do. I will try to find out before tomorrow. Still on Code Red at least.

Code Red Appears to be the only place that the stream is allowed to be displayed.

[Gary Dillard]

Showing off air this morning, can someone ping them?

[Gary Dillard]

Code Red Appears to be the only place that the stream is allowed to be displayed.

I was watching it on theredalliance.com yesterday

[Richard Wallace]

Redalliance has the Code Red webcast, looking good now.

#1 alliance is going to have to earn it the hard way.

[Joey1939]

Does anyone know if there is a recording of the regional? 1939 would really like to have a copy of the Chairman's introduction speech, and it would be fun to rewatch the final three matches.

[Cheesycakester]

Finals Match 2 (http://youtu.be/YA5JtkWG6QA)
Finals Match 3 (http://youtu.be/J9nOrCgKn0Q)

Sorry 1939, we didn't record your Chairman's introduction speech (as hilarious as it was), but congratulations on the win and we hope to see you guys in St. Louis after Bayou.

[danielled]

Hi everyone,
HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH3WdZT9q2w)is a link to the Chairman's video. Congratulations to everyone and good luck in following competitions!

[Jaxom]

Congratulations, Kuh-nig-its, on your Chairman's Award!

[wilsonmw04]

Finals Match 2 (http://youtu.be/YA5JtkWG6QA)
Finals Match 3 (http://youtu.be/J9nOrCgKn0Q)

Sorry 1939, we didn't record your Chairman's introduction speech (as hilarious as it was), but congratulations on the win and we hope to see you guys in St. Louis after Bayou.

can some fill us in on the large foul point swings in the finals?

[k5josh]

can some fill us in on the large foul point swings in the finals?

I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure Final 2 was breaking the plane on red's low goal. Final 3 was herding the red ball into the blue low goal.

[sircedric4]

I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure Final 2 was breaking the plane on red's low goal. Final 3 was herding the red ball into the blue low goal.

For match 3 the inadvertant hitting of the red ball of 4522 while being pushed by the bomb squad and trying to pick up the blue ball they missed at about 1:27 minutes was penalized as herding.

I am unsure of all the match 2 penalties. One was the legitimate G40 penalty of the human player trying to catch the blue ball at 0:41 and leaning too far in. The other 3 penalties I was never told to my satisfaction what they might have been.

Congratulations to the regional winners 16, 3937, and 4500. Those last 3 games were emotional, hard fought good games and I am only sorry that this year's game has too many subjective penalties to try and referee. When everyone is asking what the penalties were a day later you know the game rules could use an update. You guys are awesome and good luck to the winners at Worlds.

[Jefferson]

For match 3 the inadvertant hitting of the red ball of 4522 while being pushed by the bomb squad and trying to pick up the blue ball they missed at about 1:27 minutes was penalized as herding.

I am unsure of all the match 2 penalties. One was the legitimate G40 penalty of the human player trying to catch the blue ball at 0:41 and leaning too far in. The other 3 penalties I was never told to my satisfaction what they might have been.

Congratulations to the regional winners 16, 3937, and 4500. Those last 3 games were emotional, hard fought good games and I am only sorry that this year's game has too many subjective penalties to try and referee. When everyone is asking what the penalties were a day later you know the game rules could use an update. You guys are awesome and good luck to the winners at Worlds.

The penalty in match 3 was on 4090 for pushing the red ball into the blue low goal with ~5 sec left. Watch the red alliance driver station flip out when it happens.
Yes. Those were some awesome/stressful matches. Y'all played a very good game. Everybody I spoke with on your alliance was very proffesional after a tough loss. Good luck at Bayou. I hope we get to see you again at worlds.

[sircedric4]

The penalty in match 3 was on 4090 for pushing the red ball into the blue low goal with ~5 sec left. Watch the red alliance driver station flip out when it happens.
Yes. Those were some awesome/stressful matches. Y'all played a very good game. Everybody I spoke with on your alliance was very proffesional after a tough loss. Good luck at Bayou. I hope we get to see you again at worlds.

I see what you are talking about. I can only relate what the referees told us when our team asked a ref what the penalty was for. I relayed what we were told in my previous post. Once again I feel the game is just too subjective if the referees dont even know what they are penalizing for. I have taken my feeling on technical fouls swinging games to the different appropriate posts on Chief Delphi to keep this thread in a celebratory mood about a fun regional and to celebrate your success.

We hope to win Bayou and see you at World's at well but with this game who knows? We tried to remain gracious and represent the Gracious Professional award as best we could after the final scores were announced. If anyone overheard any questionable comments it was not directed at any teams and was simply venting of high intensity emotions.

Great job 16, 3937, and 4500 again. 3937 we look forward to seeing you on our home court at the Bayou and hope you have a good time when you come visit.

[geomapguy]

Wow! This event was run so well.

Couple of things:

Thanks to Alan Anderson who was a great CSA! He helped our team and many other teams get their control systems working

Thanks to 1706 and 1939 for being great alliance members! We were so close to beating the #2 seed. You guys were great partners and we were honored to work with you guys!

Congrats to 16, 3937, and 4500 for winning. You guys played really well.

It was a really good experience and maybe the rest of our season will go good also!

[JTN]

To clarify and see the penalties myself, I watched the final match 2 video over again to find them. Apparently team 4522's catapult that sticks out of the back of their robot was protruding the plane of the red one point goal every time they backed into it, which was the reason for the 3 smaller fouls (I can provide the video if needed). Those fouls along with the 50 point technical added to the massive 110 points on the final score. After some discussion with the referees afterwards, the penalties could not all be assessed during the matches throughout the tournament because of the inconvenient layout of the touch screen GUI (to call a foul the ref had to leave the scoring screen and open a new window, thereby preventing them from keeping score). The touch screen GUI in particular needs to be improved to prevent any further match outcomes from varying with the score shown at the end of the match. That is a completely different thread, however.

On another note: Congratulations to 1939 on the Chairman's Award!

-John Taylor Novak

[danielled]

To keep the spirits of gracious professionalism high at the regional, we asked people to explain how they keep it GP. This is what we found out. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw5giT5FlJc)

[nicholsjj]

A great story has to be shared about the Tennessee teams that attended the Arkansas Regional. There was horrible weather this week in Arkansas and Tennessee. The teams from Tennessee 3227,3516,3783, and 3961 all traveled together to the regional. Unfortunately they were unable to to the venue until late Thursday afternoon. The teams had some issues with their robots with inspection but they were able to be granted an extension to work at the venue Thursday night and Friday morning. Again unfortunately the bus driver had a diabetic stroke Thursday night which caused the team to have travel issues getting back to the hotel Thursday night. They still were able to work hard Friday morning to get their robots on the field with full inspections to compete at the event!

[Canon reeves]

Rank Team QS ASSIST AUTO T&C TELEOP Record (W-L-T) DQ PLAYED
1 16
22.00 430.00 311.00 290.00 619.00 11-1-0 0 12
2 1985
20.00 300.00 465.00 230.00 322.00 10-2-0 0 12
3 4522
18.00 400.00 326.00 250.00 553.00 9-3-0 0 12
4 5153
18.00 130.00 352.00 110.00 277.00 9-3-0 0 12
5 4532
16.00 290.00 291.00 220.00 376.00 8-4-0 0 12
6 1810
16.00 220.00 402.00 220.00 435.00 8-4-0 0 12
7 4092
16.00 170.00 310.00 200.00 478.00 8-4-0 0 12
8 2388
16.00 160.00 226.00 160.00 512.00 8-4-0 0 12
9 2992
14.00 290.00 326.00 130.00 547.00 7-5-0 0 12
10 3937
14.00 210.00 401.00 210.00 432.00 7-5-0 0 12
11 1706
14.00 210.00 381.00 140.00 391.00 7-5-0 0 12
12 3593
14.00 180.00 392.00 200.00 530.00 7-5-0 0 12
13 45
14.00 150.00 327.00 170.00 363.00 7-5-0 0 12
14 3666
14.00 110.00 383.00 140.00 329.00 7-5-0 0 12
15 3516
14.00 110.00 240.00 110.00 442.00 7-5-0 0 12
16 832
12.00 190.00 221.00 190.00 540.00 6-6-0 0 12
17 4849
12.00 170.00 320.00 160.00 252.00 6-6-0 0 12
18 2333
12.00 150.00 302.00 140.00 320.00 6-6-0 0 12
19 3160
12.00 150.00 245.00 210.00 614.00 6-6-0 0 12
20 3783
12.00 110.00 246.00 110.00 459.00 6-6-0 0 12
21 4490
12.00 100.00 224.00 150.00 603.00 6-6-0 0 12
22 1939
10.00 260.00 311.00 110.00 287.00 5-7-0 0 12
23 4500
10.00 240.00 223.00 90.00 371.00 5-7-0 0 12
24 2352
10.00 180.00 291.00 80.00 196.00 5-7-0 0 12
25 5178
10.00 170.00 271.00 140.00 322.00 5-7-0 0 12
26 418
10.00 160.00 452.00 220.00 257.00 5-7-0 0 12
27 4535
10.00 150.00 249.00 80.00 513.00 5-7-0 0 12
28 3784
10.00 140.00 247.00 130.00 482.00 5-7-0 0 12
29 5259
10.00 130.00 291.00 110.00 340.00 5-7-0 0 12
30 3961
10.00 120.00 222.00 50.00 255.00 5-6-0 1 12
31 3179
10.00 90.00 191.00 80.00 246.00 5-7-0 0 12
32 3227
10.00 40.00 167.00 90.00 269.00 5-6-0 1 12
33 3991
8.00 200.00 241.00 90.00 241.00 4-8-0 0 12
34 3350
8.00 110.00 227.00 130.00 365.00 4-8-0 0 12
35 5195
8.00 70.00 267.00 160.00 537.00 4-8-0 0 12
36 5006
6.00 160.00 249.00 80.00 563.00 3-9-0 0 12
37 4090
6.00 70.00 216.00 80.00 354.00 3-9-0 0 12
38 1209
4.00 80.00 280.00 130.00 229.00 2-10-0 0 12
39 2359
2.00 100.00 332.00 80.00 155.00 1-11-0 0 12
I have no idea how our team got 16 less teleoperated points than bomb squad?

[sircedric4]

To clarify and see the penalties myself, I watched the final match 2 video over again to find them. Apparently team 4522's catapult that sticks out of the back of their robot was protruding the plane of the red one point goal every time they backed into it, which was the reason for the 3 smaller fouls (I can provide the video if needed). Those fouls along with the 50 point technical added to the massive 110 points on the final score. After some discussion with the referees afterwards, the penalties could not all be assessed during the matches throughout the tournament because of the inconvenient layout of the touch screen GUI (to call a foul the ref had to leave the scoring screen and open a new window, thereby preventing them from keeping score). The touch screen GUI in particular needs to be improved to prevent any further match outcomes from varying with the score shown at the end of the match. That is a completely different thread, however.

On another note: Congratulations to 1939 on the Chairman's Award!

-John Taylor Novak

Thanks! We were wondering what those other penalties were. I have had several discussions with other referees in PM and they also explained the GUI system to me. Hopefully FIRST will fix that so the real time score will be more accurate. We learned a lot about the game this regional and know where we are going to focus our efforts in human player training and in robot improvements for our next Regional.

We really had a lovely time and hopefully we won't have to deal with snow at our next Regional. :-) Good night all, we had a long car drive back today.

[vhcook]

Now that I'm home and able to form complete sentences again, thanks to everyone for an amazing regional.

We're all giddy and still slightly startled about the Chairman's win. Our students really put their hearts into it, and I'm so proud of them. I'm also incredibly proud of our Dean's List Finalist, Izzy Lloyd.

Thanks to 1706 for picking us and 3666 for being a great alliance partner. It was a pleasure working with both of you, and our alliance put up a heck of a fight. Hopefully we'll get a chance to try it again sometime.

Congratulations to the regional winners 16, 3937, and 4500 and to the finalists 2992, 4522, and 4090. You played some amazing matches, and I know it was a really emotionally charged result for everyone involved.

I'd also like to congratulate the Memphis teams for persevering in spite of everything. I was one of the inspectors that stayed late on Thursday to help, and I could see you were all completely exhausted after the ice storm and a rough trip in, but you kept working. It was a delight to see you all make it to the field Friday morning. I hope your bus driver is all right and that you've had a safe trip home.

Congratulations to 5259 on my favorite robot of the event. The leg lamp was a brilliant idea and a fairly accurate kicker. I smiled every time I saw it.

Thanks to Harding University and the regional planning committee for a very well run event. The new venue is great, and hopefully we'll be able to come back many times.

[mrwright]

I just wanted to express our gratitude for being able to compete at the Arkansas Regional. We were really excited to be able to compete with and against some of the best teams in FIRST.

We thought that this regional was run exceptionally well and we are looking forward to coming back next year. Congratulations to all of the teams and their accomplishments.

I have to say that those finals matches were some of the most exciting moments that I have ever experienced. We were definitely disappointed and heartbroken at the outcome but we walked away with our heads high. I am so proud of our team and our alliance partners 2992 & 4090. They put up a heck of a fight.

We learned a great deal as a team this weekend from a competitive standpoint and through inspiration as well. We were in awe of the Bomb Squad's machine, their drive team & coach, and their team operations.

Thanks again for hosting such a wonderful event. We look forward to sharing a field with you all again soon.

[vhcook]

I have no idea how our team got 16 less teleoperated points than bomb squad?

That column includes both regular and foul points, not just raw teleop.

[StevenB]

First, I want to say thanks to everyone in this thread for keeping it classy - putting both the "gracious" and "professional" in Gracious Professionalism. I was the scorekeeper for the event, and it felt completely awful to have to push the button and show a score with a different outcome because of additional fouls - twice. Having been a student on a team, I know something of what that feels like on the field. But the attitudes I've observed by teams on both sides of the finals have been exemplary, and this is what sets FIRST apart from other sports.

Second, congratulations to 16, 3937, and 4500 for the win. Seeing you playing at your peak was amazing. Equal congratulations to 4522, 2992 and 4090. You guys put on an incredible set of matches up to and during the finals, and proved that even the best teams are not invincible. I loved watching you play.


To clarify and see the penalties myself, I watched the final match 2 video over again to find them. Apparently team 4522's catapult that sticks out of the back of their robot was protruding the plane of the red one point goal every time they backed into it, which was the reason for the 3 smaller fouls (I can provide the video if needed).
Correct. As said before, the technical foul was a G40.

The touch screen GUI in particular needs to be improved to prevent any further match outcomes from varying with the score shown at the end of the match.
Yes, the touchscreens and the GUI code running on them stand to be improved. They aren't very responsive (at least compared to what we've come to expect from cell phones and tablets) and have a lot of lag (which may be a software system issue). This year's system required switching back and forth between the scoring and foul screens, which was time consuming.

The penalty in match 3 was on 4090 for pushing the red ball into the blue low goal with ~5 sec left. Watch the red alliance driver station flip out when it happens.
Correct. However, since this occurred with very little time left, there was no way for this to be added to the real-time score.


Finally, thanks to folks from 16, 3937, Harding University, Baxter, and the others who worked so hard to put on this event. It was a superb way to spend my spring break! :]

[Abhishek R]

I have no idea how our team got 16 less teleoperated points than bomb squad?

This is a sum score. It does not necessarily indicate the number of points your team scored in the qualifications as it is derived from alliance scores, vaguely similar to the way OPR works (very vaguely). It's generally a decent estimate though, so that many teleop points is quite an achievement.

[Navid Shafa]

To clarify and see the penalties myself, I watched the final match 2 video over again to find them. Apparently team 4522's catapult that sticks out of the back of their robot was protruding the plane of the red one point goal every time they backed into it, which was the reason for the 3 smaller fouls (I can provide the video if needed).

I didn't get to watch as much of Arkansas as I should. Do you know if these fouls were called much in quals? I've been watching a lot of streams the last two weeks and I've seen many teams violate said rule and not get penalized for it...

Congratulations on the win. It's a beautiful machine with a great driver.

[robotlover77]

Sircedric4 your team is to be commended for the example of gracious professionalism you exhibited. As an impartial observer of the entire regional I am absolutely sickened by what transpired. There was a collective rumble that went through the crowd of non Arkansas spectators as the ultimate result was revealed. There is a large faction that saw this for what it was. The fact that the regional winner was determined after the match, based on foul point assessments, after a good deal of elapsed time, with the outcome ultimately favoring not one, but two home teams is suspect in and of itself. The fact that the driver of the team that won, 16, shares the same last name as both the Regional Director (Novak) and another member of the Arkansas Regional Planning Committee seems to me in and of itself a huge conflict of interest. Additionally, a judge was a senior engineer from Baxter, sponsor of the winning team. Considering the outcome I think it is highly suspect and at the very least deserves investigation by FIRST. Had it been a clear victory this would not be a consideration. Anyone that thinks this was a clear victory is either delusional or dishonest. I didn't have a dog in the race and came into this completely impartial. I am just a fan of FIRST and a believer in fair competition. This was a sad, sad day for FIRST.....

[Abhishek R]

...as an impartial observer of the entire regional i am absolutely sickened by what transpired. there was a collective rumble that went through the crowd of non arkansas spectators as the ultimate result was revealed.

Quite the impartial observer...several anonymous accounts popping up.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Sircedric4 your team is to be commended for the example of gracious professionalism you exhibited. As an impartial observer of the entire regional I am absolutely sickened by what transpired. There was a collective rumble that went through the crowd of non Arkansas spectators as the ultimate result was revealed. There is a large faction that saw this for what it was. The fact that the regional winner was determined after the match, based on foul point assessments, after a good deal of elapsed time, with the outcome ultimately favoring not one, but two home teams is suspect in and of itself. The fact that the driver of the team that won, 16, shares the same last name as both the Regional Director (Novak) and another member of the Arkansas Regional Planning Committee seems to me in and of itself a huge conflict of interest. Additionally, a judge was a senior engineer from Baxter, sponsor of the winning team. Considering the outcome I think it is highly suspect and at the very least deserves investigation by FIRST. Had it been a clear victory this would not be a consideration. Anyone that thinks this was a clear victory is either delusional or dishonest. I didn't have a dog in the race and came into this completely impartial. I am just a fan of FIRST and a believer in fair competition. This was a sad, sad day for FIRST.....

I HAVE a dog in this race. Meredith (the RD) and her entire family are very good friends of mine. If that call was even remotely questionable you would see them arguing against it being made. They are some of the most honest and kind hearted folks I've ever met.

Did you know that Meredith ALSO was involved in 2 of the teams on the other alliance? And when it looked like the other alliance won the folks you are accusing of cheating were congratulating the other alliance?

I'm not going to discuss the validity of the calls. Everything I've heard from folks outside of 16 was that it was a blatant foul that decided the match. I'm just letting you know that the folks you are attacking aren't the type to cheat under any circumstances.

[FrankJ]

Speaking as a person with no dog in the show & using my real name... Maybe the long discussion was because the referees knew the implications of their decisions and wanted to get it right. You cannot ignore a foul because it changes the result of the game.

One change I would like to see is the announcer reporting the cause of the fouls after every match. A difficult thing to accomplish because the explanation would have to come from already busy referees.

[rbrown1]

Sircedric4 your team is to be commended for the example of gracious professionalism you exhibited. As an impartial observer of the entire regional I am absolutely sickened by what transpired. There was a collective rumble that went through the crowd of non Arkansas spectators as the ultimate result was revealed. There is a large faction that saw this for what it was. The fact that the regional winner was determined after the match, based on foul point assessments, after a good deal of elapsed time, with the outcome ultimately favoring not one, but two home teams is suspect in and of itself. The fact that the driver of the team that won, 16, shares the same last name as both the Regional Director (Novak) and another member of the Arkansas Regional Planning Committee seems to me in and of itself a huge conflict of interest. Additionally, a judge was a senior engineer from Baxter, sponsor of the winning team. Considering the outcome I think it is highly suspect and at the very least deserves investigation by FIRST. Had it been a clear victory this would not be a consideration. Anyone that thinks this was a clear victory is either delusional or dishonest. I didn't have a dog in the race and came into this completely impartial. I am just a fan of FIRST and a believer in fair competition. This was a sad, sad day for FIRST.....


I take it that you do not know what you are talking about. If you knew the Novak's you wouldn't make such a comment. They have been working hard over the last couple years to get FIRST in Arkansas. Look at the number of teams that have started in Arkansas in the last two years, heavily due to the Novak's.

Secondly based on your comments you also don't know what it takes to put on a regional. In Kansas City it take over 180 volunteers. If it is not for the teams stepping up to help make sure there is enough volunteers we would not have the competitions. When you have put on a regional or recruited as many teams as they have we will then talk.

[AlecMataloni]

Sircedric4 your team is to be commended for the example of gracious professionalism you exhibited. As an impartial observer of the entire regional I am absolutely sickened by what transpired. There was a collective rumble that went through the crowd of non Arkansas spectators as the ultimate result was revealed. There is a large faction that saw this for what it was. The fact that the regional winner was determined after the match, based on foul point assessments, after a good deal of elapsed time, with the outcome ultimately favoring not one, but two home teams is suspect in and of itself. The fact that the driver of the team that won, 16, shares the same last name as both the Regional Director (Novak) and another member of the Arkansas Regional Planning Committee seems to me in and of itself a huge conflict of interest. Additionally, a judge was a senior engineer from Baxter, sponsor of the winning team. Considering the outcome I think it is highly suspect and at the very least deserves investigation by FIRST. Had it been a clear victory this would not be a consideration. Anyone that thinks this was a clear victory is either delusional or dishonest. I didn't have a dog in the race and came into this completely impartial. I am just a fan of FIRST and a believer in fair competition. This was a sad, sad day for FIRST.....

I can't believe what I am reading.

I've been involved in FRC for five years, and FIRST for eight years total. I've seen a lot of good, and a lot of bad. Now, if you were to ask me, at this very moment, which team best exemplifies the spirit of FIRST and "Gracious Professionalism", I'll say Baxter Bomb Squad every time...

I'm appalled that you would accuse one of the sweetest, most professional acting, most generous, and perennially virtuous teams in the history of FRC of rigging an event. Team 16 is a Hall of Fame team, which means they've been awarded the highest honor in FRC. I can't even imagine for a second a scenario where 16 would even consider doing anything like what you're accusing them.

Not only are you attacking the team, you're attacking one family in particular. John and Meredith Novak have been a crucial part of FRC in the Midwest for as long as I've been around the program. There is no doubt in my mind that Team 16's honorable actions partially stem from their involvement with the team. If you ACTUALLY knew the family, or ACTUALLY knew what you were talking about, you'd most likely take all of these ridiculous accusations back.

[Jared Russell]

...snip...

Which explanation do you think is more likely to be true?

A complex situation observed by a number of volunteers running a brand new game (that we already know to be very difficult to referee) leads to a discussion to compare notes and determine what they thought was the most accurate call?

Or, a Regional-wide conspiracy (going all the way to the Regional Director and Regional Planning Committee, and, apparently, a large multi-national health care company) to fix a high school robotics competition?

[robotlover77]

I am not attacking anyone. I simply provided information that I did not know beforehand. I notice you did not dispute that indeed it is all factual. People can take from it what they want and draw their own conclusions. I think transparency is of utmost importance in any kind of competition especially when the outcome is determined by the referees decision, not by game play.

I was there as a potential team sponsor. I am not relying on biased hearsay. There was not simply one foul that decided one match. The blue alliance won the first match and appeared to have one the second and third, but because of fouls called in the last two after the match had concluded it was determined that they lost. I heard many in the stands voicing their displeasure. One person even predicted the exact outcome after the second match. I was shocked and asked where to voice my concerns. They directed me to this site and told me to send a letter to FIRST.

[Andrew Schreiber]

I am not attacking anyone. I simply provided information that I did not know beforehand. I notice you did not dispute that indeed it is all factual. People can take from it what they want and draw their own conclusions. I think transparency is of utmost importance in any kind of competition especially when the outcome is determined by the referees decision, not by game play.

I was there as a potential team sponsor. I am not relying on biased hearsay. There was not simply one foul that decided one match. The blue alliance won the first match and appeared to have one the second and third, but because of fouls called in the last two after the match had concluded it was determined that they lost. I heard many in the stands voicing their displeasure. One person even predicted the exact outcome after the second match. I was shocked and asked where to voice my concerns. They directed me to this site and told me to send a letter to FIRST.



"As an impartial observer of the entire regional I am absolutely sickened by what transpired."

"seems to me in and of itself a huge conflict of interest."

" Anyone that thinks this was a clear victory is either delusional or dishonest"

"This was a sad, sad day for FIRST....."


These are ALL attacks.

Sorry for not disputing your tenuous grasping at straws slandering a family that has driven FIRST in the Midwest for as long as I can remember one of whom is a WFA winner and a team that doesn't NEED to win to go to Championship due to the fact that they are a Hall of Fame team.

The fact that several people have come out telling you outright that the Novak family are pillars of the FIRST community as well as genuinely upstanding individuals may tell you something.

If you don't believe me, fine, contact FIRST.

FIRST
200 Bedford St.
Manchester, NH 03101


Contact Don Bossi. That's about as far up as you can go.

But stop dragging a well respected member of our community through the mud publicly.

[Mrcope9]

Sircedric4 your team is to be commended for the example of gracious professionalism you exhibited. As an impartial observer of the entire regional I am absolutely sickened by what transpired. There was a collective rumble that went through the crowd of non Arkansas spectators as the ultimate result was revealed. There is a large faction that saw this for what it was. The fact that the regional winner was determined after the match, based on foul point assessments, after a good deal of elapsed time, with the outcome ultimately favoring not one, but two home teams is suspect in and of itself. The fact that the driver of the team that won, 16, shares the same last name as both the Regional Director (Novak) and another member of the Arkansas Regional Planning Committee seems to me in and of itself a huge conflict of interest. Additionally, a judge was a senior engineer from Baxter, sponsor of the winning team. Considering the outcome I think it is highly suspect and at the very least deserves investigation by FIRST. Had it been a clear victory this would not be a consideration. Anyone that thinks this was a clear victory is either delusional or dishonest. I didn't have a dog in the race and came into this completely impartial. I am just a fan of FIRST and a believer in fair competition. This was a sad, sad day for FIRST.....

I agree with this to an extent robotlover77. Our team, 3991, also from Louisiana was heavily involved in watching the finals at Arkansas. We cheered excessively for our good friends from 2992 until the last whistle blew. After the scores came up in match #2, we were quite surprised and it was unclear as to what exactly happened. As finals match #3 concluded we were once again befuddled as to how foul points could change the effect of a game and a regional chapionship that much. Even though the red alliance had substantial support from the crowd, it was heartbreaking to see that happen to our dog in the race. After matches were over, we congratulated 2992 and told them how proud we are that they gave it their best. My team did nominate them for the Gracious Professionalism Award, and knowing that they received it was music to our ears.
But in supporting them, in no way am I mad that the alliance from Arkansas won the regional. Upon talking with members and mentors from Team 16, it was clear that they exhibit qualities of FIRST that very few teams do. Mr. Brandon and Courtney deserved the Woodie Flowers and Dean's List Awards, respectively. I am so glad I got to meet each of them. And for Mrs. Novak, we cannot thank you enough for the amount of work you and your team of volunteers put into this event. As a group, we enjoyed and were honored at the fact that we got to be apart of what they have been working at for 20+ years. I am happy for them, and I cannot wait too see their partners, team 3937 at the Bayou Regional.


-Matthew Cope
Team 3991 Drive Team

[Jared Russell]

I heard many in the stands voicing their displeasure. One person even predicted the exact outcome after the second match. I was shocked and asked where to voice my concerns. They directed me to this site and told me to send a letter to FIRST.

So someone predicted foul play, then observed an outcome that could have had any number of (simpler, much more common) causes, therefore it must be foul play? Presumably this person (who feels qualified to call "conspiracy" when he/she sees it) also knows that the real-time score displayed during the match is unofficial?

Then they directed you to go drag a team's reputation through the mud on a public forum?

Sounds like there was indeed some despicable behavior at the Arkansas Regional. If you do indeed send a letter to FIRST, I hope you include the identity of this/these person(s) in its contents.

[Gregor]

After the scores came up in match #2, we were quite surprised and it was unclear as to what exactly happened. As finals match #3 concluded we were once again befuddled as to how foul points could change the effect of a game and a regional chapionship that much.

Fouls deciding matches was not unique to the Arkansas regional, or even this game, although this game is notorious for it.

See pretty much every match at every week 1 or 2 event.

[Alan Anderson]

...As an impartial observer of the entire regional...

Had you carefully observed the last ten seconds of the final match, you would likely not be making such a foolish accusation. It's true that there was a technical foul assessed that didn't appear in the score until after the match was over. That's because the rule violation itself (possessing an opponent's ball) was committed so near the end buzzer that there was literally no time for it to be entered earlier.

[Mrcope9]

Correct me if I'm reading this wrong, but how on earth can you "agree 100%" with this person's slander of the Novak family, but then thank them a few sentences later?

Think before you post, as you're representing your whole team right now.

Thank you for pointing that out. I do not agree with the slander and attacks at the Novak family. I was wrong to say I agree 100% with the entire post. I agree 100% with the observations that these matches will go down as controversial.

[robotlover77]

My intent is not to drag anyone through the mud. I simply posted what I witnessed and facts that I read from an official program. If I were a team contemplating entering a regional next year I would appreciate all the information I could gather to make an educated decision regarding where I spent my time and dollars.

In comparison to other competitive events if Mother Theresa had a team competing in the Super Bowl and was put in charge of hiring the officiating crew and her team won on a controversial call I believe there would be cause to question the outcome. That would not be saying that Mother Theresa or her family were bad people just that there was potential for bias which could have determined the outcome.

[Andrew Schreiber]

My intent is not to drag anyone through the mud. I simply posted what I witnessed and facts that I read from an official program. If I were a team contemplating entering a regional next year I would appreciate all the information I could gather to make an educated decision regarding where I spent my time and dollars.

In comparison to other competitive events if Mother Theresa had a team competing in the Super Bowl and was put in charge of hiring the officiating crew and her team won on a controversial call I believe there would be cause to question the outcome. That would not be saying that Mother Theresa or her family were bad people just that there was potential for bias which could have determined the outcome.

Well, here then, I posted the mailing address of FIRST and gave you the name of someone who can actually look into it. CD is unofficial in all capacities. Take it up with folks who can look into things.

[Carolyn_Grace]

My intent is not to drag anyone through the mud. I simply posted what I witnessed and facts that I read from an official program. If I were a team contemplating entering a regional next year I would appreciate all the information I could gather to make an educated decision regarding where I spent my time and dollars.

In comparison to other competitive events if Mother Theresa had a team competing in the Super Bowl and was put in charge of hiring the officiating crew and her team won on a controversial call I believe there would be cause to question the outcome. That would not be saying that Mother Theresa or her family were bad people just that there was potential for bias which could have determined the outcome.

Huh, didn't realize your thought process could get more outlandish, but I guess I was wrong.

Based on your logic, almost every single event in FIRST is rigged. BMR is managed by Purdue FIRST alumni, and there are Purdue teams that compete. MSC is managed by more than a few elite team mentors and their teams compete there. At the event that I was at this weekend, the Rookie All Star team also was on the winning alliance and was top seeded rookie and their sponsor university was the host.

What you are describing, elite teams who manage events, is not corruption but teams being role models for other teams. See, managing an event is difficult. Managing a team is difficult. Combine those two things together and you have one heck of a stressful weekend.

I suggest you volunteer for an event, so you learn how exhausting it is, and how amazing event and volunteer coordinators are.

The facts are this:
There is a proper protocol to go through if a team questions the outcome of a match, that protocol does NOT include slander on CD.
Refs huddle up after matches, especially during the finals, to make sure they get the calls correct.
The Novak's are one of the absolute nicest families in FIRST.
You are wrong.

[Thad House]

Sircedric4 your team is to be commended for the example of gracious professionalism you exhibited. As an impartial observer of the entire regional I am absolutely sickened by what transpired. There was a collective rumble that went through the crowd of non Arkansas spectators as the ultimate result was revealed. There is a large faction that saw this for what it was. The fact that the regional winner was determined after the match, based on foul point assessments, after a good deal of elapsed time, with the outcome ultimately favoring not one, but two home teams is suspect in and of itself. The fact that the driver of the team that won, 16, shares the same last name as both the Regional Director (Novak) and another member of the Arkansas Regional Planning Committee seems to me in and of itself a huge conflict of interest. Additionally, a judge was a senior engineer from Baxter, sponsor of the winning team. Considering the outcome I think it is highly suspect and at the very least deserves investigation by FIRST. Had it been a clear victory this would not be a consideration. Anyone that thinks this was a clear victory is either delusional or dishonest. I didn't have a dog in the race and came into this completely impartial. I am just a fan of FIRST and a believer in fair competition. This was a sad, sad day for FIRST.....

This is absolutely appalling. A family as well respected as the Novak's and a team as well respected as 16 would NEVER do anything you are suggesting. Remember, that 2 years ago, 16 experienced first hand what somebody actually fixing an event feels like, and I guarantee that they would NEVER allow anything like that to happen, because they have seen how it affects everybody involved.

[bduddy]

I'm not going to comment on any conspiracy theories.
But can anyone tell me what rule was violated at the end of that match? 4090 only contacted the red ball once and without using an active mechanism, which has been specifically defined as not being POSSESSION. The only thing I could find is G11,
BALLS may not be intentionally or repeatedly ejected from gameplay
but that's a Foul, not a TF. Maybe hitting the opponent's ball into your own goal isn't part of the "normal" way to play this game, but that doesn't mean that it's a foul.

[cadandcookies]

I am not attacking anyone. I simply provided information that I did not know beforehand. I notice you did not dispute that indeed it is all factual. People can take from it what they want and draw their own conclusions. I think transparency is of utmost importance in any kind of competition especially when the outcome is determined by the referees decision, not by game play.

I was there as a potential team sponsor. I am not relying on biased hearsay. There was not simply one foul that decided one match. The blue alliance won the first match and appeared to have one the second and third, but because of fouls called in the last two after the match had concluded it was determined that they lost. I heard many in the stands voicing their displeasure. One person even predicted the exact outcome after the second match. I was shocked and asked where to voice my concerns. They directed me to this site and told me to send a letter to FIRST.

As vehemently as I disagree with your accusations and interpretation of events, it seems that you've been the victim of a lack of context and some unfortunate behavior on the part of one of the Arkansas regional competitors, or at the least misinterpreted what was told to you.

I can see how, as a new potential sponsor, it would be confusing and suspicious how the finals shook out at Arkansas-- but fortunately there's a lot more context than what you are putting on the table. As has been mentioned, 16 is a Hall of Fame team, meaning they have won the single most prestigious award in FIRST-- the Championship Chairman's Award. Not only has FIRST held up this team as an example to all of us, but they have through the nearly 20 years of their existence been quite simply a shining example of gracious professionalism and what it means to be a FIRST team. Not only that, but, as already mentioned, they have very little to gain from any of the activities you accuse them of.

If I'm reading your posts correctly, it seems that you are new to FIRST and believe you've had a very questionable experience. I urge you to listen and try to parse what everyone is trying to say-- even if they're a bit rough about it. Please understand you are accusing one of our most admired teams and most beloved families of doing nothing less than violating everything that they and we as a community stand for. Outstanding claims require outstanding proof, and so far you've brought very little data and a lot of speculation and misinterpretation to the conversation.

I hope you have the opportunity to experience FIRST at its fullest if you are indeed a new-comer. If you aren't, I genuinely hope that you reflect on you words and realize how ridiculous the accusations you are putting forth are.

[Canon reeves]

There is just no way that the Novaks would ever do this, their overflowing gracious professionalism is so evident, during quarter finals our alliance was going against theirs and we needed an Anderson connector and they brought one over on the spot. The fouls can not be ignored just because it changes the match, the fouls weren't forced by anyone. All members played an extremely good match, and the reffs didn't have a dog in the race, they are there to officiate and they do that to the best of their abilities. As much as they want to see everyone win, they are un-bias, and are there by their own will and we are so thankful for them. It is OK to question things, but in the proper fashion, resorting to dragging a family's name through the mud is not an example of Gracious professionalism, that is not in the goal of First.

[robotlover77]

Admittedly I am new to FIRST. I was asked to watch a regional competition as a potential sponsor. It just so happened that this is the match that worked out logistically. I have however witnessed countless other competitive events in a host of fields on all levels. There is potential for bias in all competitive events and FIRST in no exception; to think otherwise is extremely naive.

The level of support you have for certain teams is impressive, however, nobody should be above review. Mistakes can be made regardless.

Remember, that 2 years ago, 16 experienced first hand what somebody actually fixing an event feels like, and I guarantee that they would NEVER allow anything like that to happen, because they have seen how it affects everybody involved.

So are you saying that past FIRST events have been "fixed" ? Was it called into question and rectified? I would appreciate any honest feedback as I am trying to make a decision regarding team sponsorship and I in no way want to be affiliated with an organization that condones such behavior and dishonesty. The team appealing for my sponsorship painted a much different picture of FIRST.

[sircedric4]

I am trying to figure out how to get my name out of the conspiracy theory quote just so some of the well deserved reputation hits to that account don't get associated with me or my team.

I have been talking to the Novak's and they couldn't be more pleasant people and they are probably more devastated at the perceptions than I am. Our team is indeed writing a letter to FIRST, but it is a plea for reasonable penalties and to learn their lesson going forward about the game Aerial Assist. Our letter will be praiseful of the Arkansas Regional staff and volunteers because they were put in an impossible position.

I can only speak for myself, but as a mentor with a dog in the hunt, we had a wonderful time at a beautiful venue, and lost our regional finals due to penalties that were commited by our alliance. That the rules are silly and too punishing I am more than willing to discuss, but collusion or conspiracy I will not entertain.

[coalhot]

So are you saying that past FIRST events have been "fixed" ? Was it called into question and rectified? I would appreciate any honest feedback as I am trying to make a decision regarding team sponsorship and I in no way want to be affiliated with an organization that condones such behavior and dishonesty. The team appealing for my sponsorship painted a much different picture of FIRST.

Hopefully this clears up a little about that. Be sure to read the report though:

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/2012einsteinreport

[Thad House]

So are you saying that past FIRST events have been "fixed" ? Was it called into question and rectified? I would appreciate any honest feedback as I am trying to make a decision regarding team sponsorship and I in no way want to be affiliated with an organization that condones such behavior and dishonesty. The team appealing for my sponsorship painted a much different picture of FIRST.

2 years ago at championships, during the finals, someone actually interfered with the field, and was able to shut down any robot at will. He admitted to doing it during one match. He was asked to never come back to a FIRST event ever again. Some people around here still have very harsh feelings on this, so this is about as much as this should be discussed. I just wanted to bring it up as a reason they would NEVER interfere, because they were on the other side.

[BigJ]

Admittedly I am new to FIRST. I was asked to watch a regional competition as a potential sponsor. It just so happened that this is the match that worked out logistically. I have however witnessed countless other competitive events in a host of fields on all levels. There is potential for bias in all competitive events and FIRST in no exception; to think otherwise is extremely naive.

The level of support you have for certain teams is impressive, however, nobody should be above review. Mistakes can be made regardless.



So are you saying that past FIRST events have been "fixed" ? Was it called into question and rectified? I would appreciate any honest feedback as I am trying to make a decision regarding team sponsorship and I in no way want to be affiliated with an organization that condones such behavior and dishonesty. The team appealing for my sponsorship painted a much different picture of FIRST.

As Nick mentioned, you're unfortunately missing context. The final rounds of the world championship in 2012 were sabotaged by (a now banned individual) interfering with robot communications.

FIRST is all based around "gracious professionalism" and a lot of the honor system. It is a touchy subject for a lot of people (for better or worse) whenever accusing a team or person of wrongdoings, even when they aren't Hall of Fame teams, storied volunteers, or "elite teams". I hope you have the opportunity to learn a little more of what we're about.

Next time, maybe ask around a little more before throwing accusations out, though :)

[Andy Grady]

I'm not going to comment on any conspiracy theories.
But can anyone tell me what rule was violated at the end of that match? 4090 only contacted the red ball once and without using an active mechanism, which has been specifically defined as not being POSSESSION. The only thing I could find is G11,
BALLS may not be intentionally or repeatedly ejected from gameplay
but that's a Foul, not a TF. Maybe hitting the opponent's ball into your own goal isn't part of the "normal" way to play this game, but that doesn't mean that it's a foul.

I watched the video, admittedly it was a bad view, from my standpoint G11 was likely violated. In the same case, you could also make a strong case that the robot was also herding or trapping the opponents ball which is a definite TF per G12. It happened fast and would be quite a tough judgement call to make.

[Arefin Bari]

First of all, this is a high school robotics competition.

Second of all, team 16 has enough blue banners.

Third of all, team 16 has won the championship before and they are a hall of fame team.

... I dont think they care much if they dont win one regional.

Everyone knows who Baxter Bomb Squad is and if you don't, you simply dont know their characteristics and their involvement in our community.

... Oh and if you did, you would never publicly attack the Novaks.

[bduddy]

I watched the video, admittedly it was a bad view, from my standpoint G11 was likely violated. In the same case, you could also make a strong case that the robot was also herding or trapping the opponents ball which is a definite TF per G12. It happened fast and would be quite a tough judgement call to make.I don't think a G11 call would be too out there, although I don't think that they were actually attempting to score the red ball. But I don't think you can justify G12 at all. Herding specifically refers to contacting the ball multiple times, which did not happen, and trapping is defined as pressing the ball against the field or another robot, which clearly was not done.

I've been seeing a lot of misconceptions about possession lately, that's the main reason I'm posting really...

[Jefferson]

So are you saying that past FIRST events have been "fixed" ? Was it called into question and rectified? I would appreciate any honest feedback as I am trying to make a decision regarding team sponsorship and I in no way want to be affiliated with an organization that condones such behavior and dishonesty. The team appealing for my sponsorship painted a much different picture of FIRST.

When we won the world championship in 2012, 1 member from a different team used a weakness in the WiFi communications to wreak havoc on other robots at the highest level. Two of the robots on our alliance had changed our radios, unwittingly making us immune to the attack. These events led some to question the legitimacy of the win. It was thoroughly investigated by FIRST, the offending party banned from any future FIRST activities, and we've all moved on.

I will not respond to any of the other accusations you've made here. They are slanderous and disrespectful. As your arguments have been thoroughly debunked, I would suggest that you and everybody else simply drop this thread.

[cadandcookies]

Admittedly I am new to FIRST. I was asked to watch a regional competition as a potential sponsor. It just so happened that this is the match that worked out logistically. I have however witnessed countless other competitive events in a host of fields on all levels. There is potential for bias in all competitive events and FIRST in no exception; to think otherwise is extremely naive.

Coming from a sporting context, or the context of most other events, I understand why you might leap to the "realistic" conclusion of foul play, but the thing is, FIRST is fundamentally different from nearly any other competition on the planet, because the goal isn't building the robot, it's building the students, inspiring the community, changing the culture of not only our nation, but the world. A football game is inherently petty-- there is no higher cause, but if you took a bit more time to talk to students not just about their team, but ask them about the others, you might get a better understanding of just how far teams will go to help their competitors compete to their fullest. It isn't uncommon in eliminations for an alliance to take a time out in order to give their opponents time to fix their robot. Team 16 and the Novaks are a shining example of this-- there wasn't a single team at that regional who wasn't impacted positively by them. To accuse them of intentionally causing a fracture in the community they helped to build and nurture at a regional that they are so invested in is like accusing parents of poisoning their children.


The level of support you have for certain teams is impressive, however, nobody should be above review. Mistakes can be made regardless.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. But we also need evidence of those mistakes, not broad accusations based on theory and hearsay.


So are you saying that past FIRST events have been "fixed" ? Was it called into question and rectified?

Not fixed-- a couple of years ago, a mentor interfered with the wireless during the final matches of Championships. The mentor was banned from FIRST and measures were taken to improve wireless security at events.



I would appreciate any honest feedback as I am trying to make a decision regarding team sponsorship and I in no way want to be affiliated with an organization that condones such behavior and dishonesty. The team appealing for my sponsorship painted a much different picture of FIRST.

Investing in a FIRST team is one of the best uses for your money out there, hands down. I don't know what team you were with, but I can almost without qualification say that your investment will help change at least one student's life, and quite possibly many more.

[robotlover77]

I do realize this is a high school robotics competition, however I have been asked to donate a substantial amount of money to a team. In return they would display my organization's logo as a representative of my organization. I do not take this lightly. I am now getting a much different picture of what this is all about, both from the weekend's competition and more so from this website.

[connor.worley]

I had the honor of going up to New York last Thanksgiving to kick off the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade with teams 16, 25, 180, and 1477. I can tell you firsthand that 16 isn't the type of team to be dishonest in any way - ever.

[Andy Grady]

I don't think a G11 call would be too out there, although I don't think that they were actually attempting to score the red ball. But I don't think you can justify G12 at all. Herding specifically refers to contacting the ball multiple times, which did not happen, and trapping is defined as pressing the ball against the field or another robot, which clearly was not done.

I've been seeing a lot of misconceptions about possession lately, that's the main reason I'm posting really...

Say robot 1 on the red alliance hasn't touched the ball, a partner shoots the ball over the truss and it ends up sitting in front of the red goal. Robot 1 then proceeds to pop the ball into the goal. Would you give robot 1 credit for possession? Absolutely...even on only one touch.

What if it was a blue robot and it went into the goal seemingly with purpose? It is also directing a ball into a certain direction with purpose. Also possession. In open field, I would agree...it would take multiple hits in the same direction. Against a corner, it would depend more on the direction the robot was moving and intent. That is my opinion.

[S.P.A.M.er 17]

...can anyone tell me what rule was violated at the end of that match?

Sure. The call was on a possession, more specifically herding. After the match ended, all of the referees met, and discussed what happened. Some of them saw what happened, others only got a glimpse. After the referees who saw what happened gave their description of the events, everyone unanimously agreed that the correct call was herding. This of course is a technical. It was called on the robot who pushed the ball into the low goal.

Source: I was one of the refs. Any other questions, feel free to PM me.

So are you saying that past FIRST events have been "fixed" ? Was it called into question and rectified? I would appreciate any honest feedback as I am trying to make a decision regarding team sponsorship and I in no way want to be affiliated with an organization that condones such behavior and dishonesty. The team appealing for my sponsorship painted a much different picture of FIRST.

Please take a look at this link directly from FIRST (http://www3.usfirst.org/node/2426). Much happened during the final matches in the world championship. FIRST made sure that everything was done to sort out what was wrong on their end, the competing teams' end, and the interfering end. It just so happened that 16 was one of the competing teams in the finals (as was my old team). They were NOT involved in any of the foul play two years ago, just like they were not involved in any foul play at this regional (simply because there was none).

Source: Drive team and 2012 team captain for 180 SPAM. Once again, any questions please PM me.

I am sure that the picture they painted you of FIRST was accurate. I have been inspired by FIRST, I am currently a ME major at the University of Florida becuase of FIRST, and I can not recommend enough sponsoring a team. Your contributions may help inspire a student, just like FIRST has inspired many of us. If you truly want to know the community that is involved with FIRST, please read back to all of the responses that your posts has garnered. All affiliates of this program believe in FIRST's ideal of Gracious Professionalism, and not a single person would condone any amount of the behavior or dishonesty that your posts have been eluding to.

[sircedric4]

Say robot 1 on the red alliance hasn't touched the ball, a partner shoots the ball over the truss and it ends up sitting in front of the red goal. Robot 1 then proceeds to pop the ball into the goal. Would you give robot 1 credit for possession? Absolutely...even on only one touch.

What if it was a blue robot and it went into the goal seemingly with purpose? It is also directing a ball into a certain direction with purpose. Also possession. In open field, I would agree...it would take multiple hits in the same direction. Against a corner, it would depend more on the direction the robot was moving and intent. That is my opinion.

And this is indeed a position I would agree with, except that the inverse is not true. Many times a single hit with gusto were not considered possession enough to count as an assist for scoring. It is entirely too subjective, and it will be impossible to be consistent across all the venues with the current set of rules, I feel.

[Steven Donow]

And this is indeed a position I would agree with, except that the inverse is not true. Many times a single hit with gusto were not considered possession enough to count as an assist for scoring. It is entirely too subjective, and it will be impossible to be consistent across all the venues with the current set of rules, I feel.

I can agree with this. I noticed it this weekend, having reffed at Mt. Olive and then my team be competing at Groton. At first, I was a little annoyed at how they seemed to not be calling posession sometimes(and not just due to refs looking a different direction) and how it differed than how we called it at MO, but by Saturday afternoon, I had a pretty strong grasp of how they determined themselves to be calling posession. I have no problem with this because they were consistently calling it a certain way throughout the individual event. This is the most realistic situation I can see.

[bduddy]

Say robot 1 on the red alliance hasn't touched the ball, a partner shoots the ball over the truss and it ends up sitting in front of the red goal. Robot 1 then proceeds to pop the ball into the goal. Would you give robot 1 credit for possession? Absolutely...even on only one touch.

What if it was a blue robot and it went into the goal seemingly with purpose? It is also directing a ball into a certain direction with purpose. Also possession. In open field, I would agree...it would take multiple hits in the same direction. Against a corner, it would depend more on the direction the robot was moving and intent. That is my opinion.
No, I wouldn't.

Can you tell me what part of this rule defines that as possession?

G12

An ALLIANCE may not POSSESS their opponent’s BALLS. The following criteria define POSSESSION :

“carrying” (moving while supporting BALLS in or on the ROBOT or holding the BALL in or on the ROBOT),
“herding” (repeated pushing or bumping),
“launching” (impelling BALLS to a desired location or direction via a MECHANISM in motion relative to the ROBOT), or
“trapping” (overt isolation or holding one or more BALLS against a FIELD element or ROBOT in an attempt to shield them).

[Andy Grady]

And this is indeed a position I would agree with, except that the inverse is not true. Many times a single hit with gusto were not considered possession enough to count as an assist for scoring. It is entirely too subjective, and it will be impossible to be consistent across all the venues with the current set of rules, I feel.

I'd have to argue that any ball that is hit once and rolls into a goal is without a doubt a possession of the contacting robot, regardless of where it rolls. I mean, where else is the ball going to go? If the robot was pushed into it, and it rolled into the goal...then you'd have a point. If its a willing motion...well, then that is where it gets hairy. Any purposeful motion of a ball against a wall or goal going outside of the field would certainly have strategic merit in keeping the ball away from the other team. The spirit and intent of the possession of an opponents ball rule is to prevent just that.

[Andy Grady]

No, I wouldn't.

Can you tell me what part of this rule defines that as possession?

So you are telling me that a robot can purposefully score a ball and never possess it?

To answer your second question, I would call it herding.

To score in the goal, it takes one push to get the ball up the bump on the front of the goal, and one to push it down the ramp. Against the wall, one bump to push the ball upwards, and one to knock it out.

Edit: Trap works too...from the definition of possess in the glossary:

"trap (overt isolation or holding one or more BALLS against a FIELD element or ROBOT in an attempt to shield them) a BALL."

[StevenB]

For the record, the referees who initially called the specific fouls in finals 2 and 3 were not associated with teams 16 or 3937. They didn't talk or consult with anyone outside the referee crew until the score was entered.

I didn't get to watch as much of Arkansas as I should. Do you know if these fouls were called much in quals? I've been watching a lot of streams the last two weeks and I've seen many teams violate said rule and not get penalized for it...
Yes, fouls all over the place; I'll do a more thorough analysis later, but from a brief glance at my pages of scorekeeper notes, there were fouls in more than half the matches. The fouls called in the finals were unfortunate but hardly unusual.

Both alliances were under incredible stress. For the red alliance, the result was 16 and 3937 getting hasty and missing lots of shots. For blue, it resulted in committing penalties they might have otherwise been careful to avoid (particularly in match 2).

[robotlover77]

Thanks to all who have responded to my prior posts. I have certainly been given a more clear picture of what FIRST really is.

[Gregor]

I do realize this is a high school robotics competition, however I have been asked to donate a substantial amount of money to a team. In return they would display my organization's logo as a representative of my organization. I do not take this lightly. I am now getting a much different picture of what this is all about, both from the weekend's competition and more so from this website.

If you're going to act like this and lay out ridiculous accusations, no one wants your money.

[robotlover77]

Funny, I have been approached by 3 "teams" this year. They are all quite eager to take my money. Two of them virtually begged.

[AlecMataloni]

Alright, that's enough.

Someone on the mod team should lock this thread, as there's nothing else that can be said that will be productive.

[Roboter]

I was the Ref, scoring blue, in the corner in which the violation occurred.

//snip//

I have struggled with this myself. I hate the fact that the finals match, which bears great significance, was decided on fouls. But I don't question for a second the integrity of the other Refs.

//snip//

All that said, I do believe that the penalties are far too harsh. Not having experience before this, though, I cannot compare to other years.

And finally, if you are considering refereeing for a FIRST competition, later this year or another year entirely, make sure you think twice. It is a lot of responsibility and many people will count on you. And then go do it; the excitement is unrivaled and it is extremely rewarding to be able to volunteer for such an effective organization.

[JDNovak]

I don't post much but I would like to set the record straight. Someone back in the thread finally alluded to the real purpose of the FIRST experience in inspiring students to work hard at accomplishing what they set out to do. I try to get our team to understand that all we can do is try to look like we could win but winning includes luck and circumstance beyond our control. Last year, two penalty calls that were clearly questionable on video eliminated us from the Championship. We pleaded our case and walked away. Same thing happened in 2011. The most competitive person on our team is the drive coach. When I met him on the way back to the pits his first words were "I didn't want to win like that." We know that the scores wouldn't have been close if our Autonomous systems were working well and that will be our focus.
After 19 years, the winning and losing takes care of itself. My goal is to never be the team that someone wonders how we got there.
The choices are to play down to the competition or try to help the competition get better. We think the latter is the right choice and actively try to do that.
There is a thread on this forum every year of "best teams that have never won." The community is sophisticated enough to know who is doing the things that inspire youth to the next level.
Sure, the rules and amatur refs make the outcome less than perfect but there is so much more to the program that just can't be compared to sports.
We have struggled to get Arkansas companies to recognize that this is where they should be looking for their workforce. We had barely enough funding for this year and right now we have virtually no funding to do it again. If your goal is to make sure it goes away I'm sorry. Many of our teams can't raise the funds to travel out of state and stay in hotels so they can't survive without a local event.
Maybe your money would best be spent hiring professional referees for all events so no collusion could be possible. I hope you come to the conclusion that the competition is not the main product of FIRST and that the students that come through the program are able to handle the real world better than we can.

[Greg Needel]

Everyone take a breath, lets not let one person who we don't know tarnish the reputation of people who we do. Thanks to everyone who responded maturely and let your GP shine. Don't forget to keep being excellent to each other.



*Thread closed*