[FRCTop25.com]- 2014 Premiere Night [Archive]

Mike Starke

15-12-2013, 17:30

Hey everyone! As a new season of the FRC Top 25 and Mike and Justin in the Morning is approaching, Justin and I are excited to announce our second annual "Premiere Night" which will be happening on February 22nd, 2014 at 7PM eastern!

Premiere Night is a chance to show of your robot publicly for the first time after build season is over! Your team is able to submit a video to be shown live as hundreds of FIRSTers huddle around computers across the world to watch what your team has been up to all build season.

We have made some changes to the format of this years event (thanks to your suggestions), so please watch the PROMO VIDEO HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRdFw85-NmQ), as well as check out all the details below. You can also find all of this information on our new and improved website at http://www.FRCTop25.com

When: February 22nd, 2014 at 7PM Eastern
Where: www.FRCTop25.com

Details:

Videos must be submitted by Friday February 21st at 9PM Eastern
Video must be uploaded to YouTube as an UNLISTED Video
Submit link to video with the form on our website
Videos MUST be less than 90 seconds long
Teams must not release videos of robot/complete mechanisms prior to Premiere Night, or your team will be disqualified from participating
Small pictures or “teasers” are ok, as long as they don’t show complete mechanisms.
The last few time slots are reserved for teams that were in the top 10 of the 2013 Final Rankings (610, 1717, 33, 469, 987, 118, 254, 1986, 2056, and 1114)

Questions?! Please email us at MikeandJustinITM@gmail.com 2014 is shaping out to be the most exciting year yet, and we're really looking forward to this event!

Chris is me

15-12-2013, 18:06

This was a big success last year and a lot of teams gained exposure through this premiere night. I'm glad teams have this opportunity again.

However, I'm concerned about the requirement of robot secrecy. I definitely noticed last year that some of the usual suspects posting info in the last two weeks did not get to do so because of this contest. Historically, 2791 has posted mechanism photos and designs throughout the build season. Last year we weren't able to do this because of our decision to participate in this reveal. I'm sure many other teams dealt with this same issue as well.

What this means is that less information is exchanged at the end of build season, information that can be extremely helpful to other teams. Videos of partially functional robots in Week 5, completed robots several days before ship, etc. often serve as inspiration for teams struggling to get their robot to spec. I know 2791 has used information posted on CD by teams way farther ahead of us to design last minute robot fixes more than once, and I know many others have done the same.

As this contest gets more and more popular, this means more and more FRC teams will not be able to publicly talk about their designs, post videos of mechanisms running, or otherwise discuss their completed robot in public. I know the contest is optional and teams could opt not to participate if they individually value sharing designs. But what about the teams that could really go either way on design sharing, but really desire the exposure this event gives their team? I fear that in the name of a fun reveal night we're going to continue to stifle discussion and openness in the FRC community, and that is the opposite of what I think would be best for FRC. I can't speak unilaterally for my team just yet, but I personally don't want to be part of a project that makes secrecy mandatory.

All of that said, this was a great show and a great opportunity for so many teams to show off their hard work last year. I don't want to minimize that or the hard work you guys have put in. I just personally wish it didn't have to happen at the expense of open communication between FRC teams, and this seemed like a good venue to express that concern.

Oblarg

15-12-2013, 18:09

However, I'm concerned about the requirement of robot secrecy. I definitely noticed last year that some of the usual suspects posting info in the last two weeks did not get to do so because of this contest. Historically, 2791 has posted mechanism photos and designs throughout the build season. Last year we weren't able to do this because of our decision to participate in this reveal. I'm sure many other teams dealt with this same issue as well.

I'll echo this concern. I think we ought to do everything we feasibly can to encourage exchange of designs and ideas amongst teams - it results in the betterment of the competition for everyone.

AllenGregoryIV

15-12-2013, 18:14

coalhot

15-12-2013, 18:20

I'll add my name to this growing list as well. I love premiere night, I think it's a great idea. It's your show and you get to make the decisions but Spectrum won't participate if we wouldn't be allowed to have our build blog all season.

I hope everything goes well and I look forward to watching all the videos but I also hope a lot teams choose not to participate and instead publish earlier in the season.

Same thoughts here. Last year we did participate, and only posted a few teasers before the premiere night. However, if this year we choose to be more open with our designs and information, we wouldn't be able to participate this year.

Ian Curtis

15-12-2013, 18:43

I fear that in the name of a fun reveal night we're going to continue to stifle discussion and openness in the FRC community, and that is the opposite of what I think would be best for FRC.

All of that said, this was a great show and a great opportunity for so many teams to show off their hard work last year. I don't want to minimize that or the hard work you guys have put in. I just personally wish it didn't have to happen at the expense of open communication between FRC teams, and this seemed like a good venue to express that concern.

I agree. Trading a season of improved matches for 90 seconds of recognition is a poor trade, I think. Last season we saw LOTS of very useful totally public sharing, and I hope we see more of that this year. I hope we follow in the footsteps of the great work Spectrum did last year.

I look forward to seeing some of the perennially secret robots unveiled, though!

Justin Montois

15-12-2013, 18:48

While we respect the feedback from the FRC community, we feel that Premiere Night inherently means you're seeing something for the first time.

If a more "open" build season is what your team enjoys then of course we encourage you to keep doing that. We do feel however that showing videos of robots that have already been seen doesn't maintain the integrity of the event.

While I wish every FRC team would participate, every team has the right to decide if being a part of Premiere Night is something they want to do. There are some creative ways to build suspense and excitement for your robot without violating any of the stipulations for participation.

BJC

15-12-2013, 18:53

I'm very excited to hear this is returning again. Mike and Justin always put on a good show.

As to the secrecy restriction: I think that it is reasonable for Mike and Justin to impose that. They want their "premiere night" to be the premiere of the robots they show. If you want to be more open with your robot design, that is completely okay too. You have chosen to premiere your robot gradually over the course of the season. By the premiere night everyone has already seen it. As the popularity of the show grows and more teams submit videos perhaps it would be better for that time slot to be used on a team's robot that no one has seen before instead of the one that they saw on cd and used for inspiration.

Regards, Bryan

Edit: I see Justin's covered it.

cmrnpizzo14

15-12-2013, 19:17

I see both sides of the secrecy argument. I think that teams can still find a way to help others while maintaining the secrecy that Mike and Justin want. I think that most of these problems will sort themselves out during the season.

Thank you for the 90 second limit! I enjoyed many of the videos last year but for a team that has a cycling robot with 1 auto mode and a 10 pt. hang, a 3.5 minute video gets slightly redundant. I do appreciate the flashing LEDs but if that is taking close to 30 seconds of your video it gets a little tiring........

cadandcookies

15-12-2013, 19:18

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the wording is complete mechanisms and complete robots are not allowed to be shown. Documenting prototypes with video would then be perfectly fine because they aren't completed mechanisms. Thus, much of Spectrum's build blog would be perfectly legal-- only the videos of testing finalized mechanisms and pictures of the powdercoated frame would not be allowed.

All in all, I think that's a perfectly fine compromise-- if you're showing off your completed robot or completed shooter before the reveal, you aren't actually revealing anything as the entire surprise is spoiled already.

I'll try to get the budding videographers on my team interested in this-- it sounds like it'll be an awesome event again this year!

LeelandS

15-12-2013, 19:29

This is awesome! I can't wait. If the robot actually seems attractive to other teams soon enough, I might set to work on a little video!

Side note: Is that bowl strategically placed to hide a mouse Mike is using to click through a script?

Mike Starke

15-12-2013, 19:43

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the wording is complete mechanisms and complete robots are not allowed to be shown. Documenting prototypes with video would then be perfectly fine because they aren't completed mechanisms.

Correct. Complete systems and prototypes can not be shown ahead of time if you plan on appearing in Premiere Night. But documenting prototypes of partial systems would be allowed within reason. Hope that clears it up.

Side note: Is that bowl strategically placed to hide a mouse Mike is using to click through a script?
No more questions... :)

BurkeHalderman

15-12-2013, 19:45

Mike and Justin thanks for doing premiere night again. I thought it was great last year and i know 3266 plans to submit our unveil video again this year. We'll probably make a short version for premiere night and have a full length video on our YouTube channel. One of the best things about premiere night last year was seeing a whole lot of other robots at once, which gave us a better idea of how our bot would stack up against the competition. And it was so rewarding to read the comments about our robot. I remember someone calling it a "baby 148" which was easily one of the best complements I could hope for.

As far as the restrictions on prematurely posting pictures and videos of mechanisms it's completely reasonable to ask this. I know we'll be posting teaser videos like we did last year but are glad to keep our complete design under wraps. It's pretty simple, if a team doesn't agree with your requests then they don't have to participate. You don't have to do premiere night it's a bonus for us teams, we need to keep that in mind.

D.Allred

15-12-2013, 20:55

Tetras? Are you expecting an "awkward object pick and place" game? Are you camping outside of FRC Headquarters?

Soooo many questions...

Libby K

15-12-2013, 21:22

Wow, talking about top25 already? Oh god, that means the season's coming soon...

Excited for the new criteria- hopefully this Premiere Night will be even better than the first! 1923 plans on making a video for the robot this year, so we'll make sure to talk about contributing to the show. :)

Justin Montois

15-12-2013, 22:15

I want to clarify further our position.

We fully understand the enjoyment teams get by posting their progress throughout the season. I saw some great stuff from Spectrum and loved their build blog. It's important to us that those kinds of things continue and that Premiere Night isn't seen as a reason to stop.

Things like this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTFTWgB1cY4
would be perfectly fine.

However this video, which reveals a big component of the robot (The raised style shooter) would be too much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_kJCwUUJlw

As I said there are creative ways to document your progress without needing to give anything away...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62JTvaoZc8g

I hope this clears up some of the confusion.

During build season, if you'd like to run anything past Mike and I before posting don't hesitate to do so. Mikeandjustinitm@gmail.com Thanks!

cmrnpizzo14

16-12-2013, 09:49

As I said there are creative ways to document your progress without needing to give anything away...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62JTvaoZc8g

I've always wondered if you could sharpen a drill bit with surgical tubing..... I guess you can't :(

AllenGregoryIV

16-12-2013, 20:35

I understand your position Justin and like I said before you have every right to make that decision however we still won't participate if we can't release our robot. The releasing is an important part of helping teams (For the record. the raised shooter didn't help any teams including ours :) ).

I will still be watching and our team will still have a viewing party like we did last year. I love the idea of premiere night but I still think it's better for the community to have more open robot concepts.

MaxMax161

16-12-2013, 22:23

I don't think there is significant value added to premier night by restricting what a team can share about their robot. I think the value of showing a lot of robot videos all at once in one place is to make it easy for people to see lots of robots and get jazzed up. This brings in new people who would not otherwise have combed the forums for robot videos. Letting teams show their robot wouldn't affect that value because the people not combing the forums wouldn't see it anyway.

Perhaps there is a middle ground though, Top 25 wants exclusive content (at least until after it's shown) to make their show more interesting and the community wants to share information about others robots that could help them and others. What if premier night focused on "showy" video that's intended to show off a fully finished robot and all it's capabilities. Teams would submit a video of the entire robot working and playing the game to Top 25 but would still be able to share short videos focusing just on a individual part of their robot. These short videos would be limited to a single mechanism working and maybe by time as well, just to display functionality. While these videos would show off mechanisms they wouldn't show off an entire functioning integrated robot playing the game, which is the really important and impressive part anyway. Top 25 is still going to be the first place that anyone who hasn't been combing CD would see robots so it's still a complete premier to plenty of people.

These would be what the short videos would be like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_kJCwUUJlw (same one they said wasn't okay above)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4qvOQCnNw0 (perhaps with fewer takes in the video)

And a long showy one would be this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DojyJ9bZ4fk

I think there is a clear difference between those videos. By separating the showy ones from the basic ones we can have our cake and eat it too.

Mike Starke

08-01-2014, 12:02

Hey everyone! Now that kickoff is here, we just wanted to put out a friendly reminder about Premiere Night. We would love to show as many robots as we can! Please check the above video and information for all of the details.

As always, if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to email us at MikeandJustinITM@gmail.com

Mike Starke

25-01-2014, 17:12

So something happened to our original YouTube video, so we had to reupload it. The new link can be found HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-6hHmfL5XM).

We look forward to seeing what all of you come up with!!

brandon.cottrell

25-01-2014, 18:45

I think the submission form you guys had up isn't there anymore, unless you open it after a certain date? Our team didn't participate in this last year so we're not really sure.

Patrick Flynn

25-01-2014, 19:02

I think the submission form you guys had up isn't there anymore, unless you open it after a certain date? Our team didn't participate in this last year so we're not really sure.

The submission form has not been posted yet. It will become available as build season starts to wind down. No sense submitting a video this early.

Flimsor

29-01-2014, 01:47

I have a clarification question. Would a picture or video of a bare bones chassis (just sheet metal, nothing else) be considered an entire mechanism?

rcmolloy

29-01-2014, 02:06

I do believe that the "if mechanism shown" bullet is a bit harsh on teams. It seems that most individuals that are trying to put something together while updating others about the build season seem to intertwine in some cases. If a team has a great 90 second highlight video that they spent 4 to 5 hours on just in post production, I would still love to show it regardless if they have "revealed" something else. There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the subject anyway but it's up to you guys.

With that out of the way, I'm certainly looking forward to the premier night.

Patrick Flynn

29-01-2014, 14:29

I have a clarification question. Would a picture or video of a bare bones chassis (just sheet metal, nothing else) be considered an entire mechanism?

This would not be considered a complete system, unless this was the only system that your team was building.

I do believe that the "if mechanism shown" bullet is a bit harsh on teams. It seems that most individuals that are trying to put something together while updating others about the build season seem to intertwine in some cases. If a team has a great 90 second highlight video that they spent 4 to 5 hours on just in post production, I would still love to show it regardless if they have "revealed" something else. There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the subject anyway but it's up to you guys.

With that out of the way, I'm certainly looking forward to the premier night.

The overall goal here is to show robots for the first time, there's many videos out there of teams that I will watch over and over again. But there is not as much excitement as the first time I saw their robot. On Premiere night we are looking to ignite that initial excitement in a teams robot. If someone has already shown their robot there is simply not as much excitement when re-showing it.

This is also the cause for some of the ambiguity here. A team last year could have only built a climber, and if they had showed this one mechanism they would have effectively shown off their whole robot. But there are other robot designs that could have shown their climber and not even have highlighted the most important features of their robot.
If anyone has more specific questions please feel free to post in this thread or email us, mikeandjustinitm[@]gmail[.]com

Jay O'Donnell

11-02-2014, 21:49

If our team goes to a pre-stop build day practice (week zero) but we don't post any pictures or videos of our robot, can we still participate in premier night?

Mike Starke

12-02-2014, 10:56

If our team goes to a pre-stop build day practice (week zero) but we don't post any pictures or videos of our robot, can we still participate in premier night?

Absolutely! We plan on going to a Week Zero event as well!

On a side note, the submission form for Premiere Night is now OPEN! You can head over to http://www.frctop25.com/submissionform/ to submit your link to your video! We are so excited for this night! As always, if you have ANY questions, please feel free to email us at MikeandJustinITM@gmail.com! Thanks, and we'll see you soon!

Jay O'Donnell

12-02-2014, 11:28

Absolutely! We plan on going to a Week Zero event as well!

On a side note, the submission form for Premiere Night is now OPEN! You can head over to http://www.frctop25.com/submissionform/ to submit your link to your video! We are so excited for this night! As always, if you have ANY questions, please feel free to email us at MikeandJustinITM@gmail.com! Thanks, and we'll see you soon!

Cool, thanks!

cavalier

16-02-2014, 00:04

Is there anything we need to do besides submit our video on the Google Form? Team 1678 is interested in participating this year

SIIENGINEER

16-02-2014, 00:34

???What happens if you participate in a week zero event and another team films and posts a video of your robot without your teams knowledge or consent?

Cant wait til next week and keep up the great work..makes the season even more exciting.

XaulZan11

16-02-2014, 00:43

???What happens if you participate in a week zero event and another team films and posts a video of your robot without your teams knowledge or consent?
.

If it is a public event, I do not think you can fault any person or team for taking footage and posting it online. I think by attending the event, you consent to being viewed and filmed. That being said, I hope it doesn't affect your ability to participate at the premiere night.

Patrick Flynn

16-02-2014, 11:42

Is there anything we need to do besides submit our video on the Google Form? Team 1678 is interested in participating this year

As long as you fill out all the required questions on the form, which you have to do to submit it you are all set!

As a reminder all videos must be submitted by Friday February 21st at 9PM Eastern. At that time we will be closing the form and you will no longer be able to submit.

???What happens if you participate in a week zero event and another team films and posts a video of your robot without your teams knowledge or consent?

Cant wait til next week and keep up the great work..makes the season even more exciting.

If you are attending a week zero event we understand that sometimes it is out of your control as to what other teams post. But you should ask teams that may take pictures of your robot NOT to post them online because your team would like to participate in premiere night. We also understand that most of these week zeros are webcast and there is nothing that your team can do to prevent your robot from being shown on a webcast. As an aside team 254 has hosted a week zero like event for a couple years, and you never see early leaked photos of their robot. So it is not unreasonable for teams to request that pictures of their robot not be posted online. And I would expect other teams would respect that request.

Qbot2640

20-02-2014, 00:22

Just uploaded our video. Looking forward to Saturday!:yikes:

Steven Donow

20-02-2014, 00:36

Will a list of participating teams be published prior to Saturday night?

AdamHeard

20-02-2014, 01:58

If you are attending a week zero event we understand that sometimes it is out of your control as to what other teams post. But you should ask teams that may take pictures of your robot NOT to post them online because your team would like to participate in premiere night. We also understand that most of these week zeros are webcast and there is nothing that your team can do to prevent your robot from being shown on a webcast. As an aside team 254 has hosted a week zero like event for a couple years, and you never see early leaked photos of their robot. So it is not unreasonable for teams to request that pictures of their robot not be posted online. And I would expect other teams would respect that request.

Are you saying if a team has had their robot posted by someone else (1986 for example, although since removed) they are no longer eligible?

You guys are taking this way too seriously.

Justin Montois

20-02-2014, 02:08

Are you saying if a team has had their robot posted by someone else (1986 for example, although since removed) they are no longer eligible?

You guys are taking this way too seriously.

Teams that end up online due to circumstances out of their control are of course still eligible to participate. We hope to have 1986 participate this year as they did last year.

We are taking it appropriately serious :)

DampRobot

20-02-2014, 02:23

You guys are taking this way too seriously.

Agreed. I feel like a premier night would be just as fun, even if I'd already seen all the robots. What we all like about reveal videos isn't that you're seeing new designs (ooh, look, annother boom done clone!) but all the fun fit and finish that goes into the videos. They're cool and worth watching all on their own.

I get that you want the viewership from exclusive first looks, but I wish you wouldn't make teams be so secretive.

EricLeifermann

20-02-2014, 10:26

Agreed. I feel like a premier night would be just as fun, even if I'd already seen all the robots. What we all like about reveal videos isn't that you're seeing new designs (ooh, look, annother boom done clone!) but all the fun fit and finish that goes into the videos. They're cool and worth watching all on their own.

I get that you want the viewership from exclusive first looks, but I wish you wouldn't make teams be so secretive.

I think other teams(mine as well) are agreeing with this, which is why you've seen some elite teams post their videos already.

Nathan Rossi

20-02-2014, 10:54

Will we receive a confirmation email after we submit the form? I just want to make sure it went through and we're in.

Qbot2640

20-02-2014, 12:02

I think other teams(mine as well) are agreeing with this, which is why you've seen some elite teams post their videos already.

I have held our video, and refrained from posting other videos of the development so that we could participate in Premiere Night fairly by the imposed rules - but I feel like this has hurt us this year. Last season, we had a lot of interest in some of our development videos, and it made the team feel good to see the number of hits...plus, we arrived at competition with some teams already aware of our capabilities. This year our robot is much better than last, and I know the team would like to already be showing that off. If there is the same exclusivity requirements next year I doubt we will participate again, and I hope (and expect) someone else will create a less restrictive release video event for the many teams frustrated by the strict requirements. Plus, while our robot is quite good, our video does not really compare to what some teams can do, since we did not have an opportunity to drive the competition robot on a full size field or demonstrate with "real" field elements. The strict secrecy kind of raises the stakes, and I fear we will not compare well to the other videos from a video production standpoint. We just wanted to be part of the pageantry...but like I said above, we probably won't do it again.

Justin Montois

20-02-2014, 13:06

Will we receive a confirmation email after we submit the form? I just want to make sure it went through and we're in.

We have your submission and can't wait for Saturday night! Thanks!

As for people voicing their concerns, please continue to do so as we take everything into account as we plan for next year.

minhnhatbui

20-02-2014, 14:23

I have held our video, and refrained from posting other videos of the development so that we could participate in Premiere Night fairly by the imposed rules - but I feel like this has hurt us this year. Last season, we had a lot of interest in some of our development videos, and it made the team feel good to see the number of hits...plus, we arrived at competition with some teams already aware of our capabilities. This year our robot is much better than last, and I know the team would like to already be showing that off. If there is the same exclusivity requirements next year I doubt we will participate again, and I hope (and expect) someone else will create a less restrictive release video event for the many teams frustrated by the strict requirements. Plus, while our robot is quite good, our video does not really compare to what some teams can do, since we did not have an opportunity to drive the competition robot on a full size field or demonstrate with "real" field elements. The strict secrecy kind of raises the stakes, and I fear we will not compare well to the other videos from a video production standpoint. We just wanted to be part of the pageantry...but like I said above, we probably won't do it again.

I think other teams(mine as well) are agreeing with this, which is why you've seen some elite teams post their videos already.

Agreeing on all points. Plus, missing the bandwagon for FRC reveal videos for the Premiere Night hurts teams in their struggle to visibility, especially with this high and ever-increasing number of teams.

The Premiere Night, instead of working on exclusivity to distinguish itself from the "competition", could instead have its own features, for example premiere nights by regions -- say, for example, Midwest Premiere Night, International Premiere Night, Mexican/Canadian Premiere Night, etc. -- or premiere nights by regionals/districts. That would be a huge benefit for scouting teams.

Kevin Leonard

20-02-2014, 14:27

Qbot2640

20-02-2014, 14:41

...premiere nights by regions -- say, for example, Midwest Premiere Night, International Premiere Night, Mexican/Canadian Premiere Night, etc. -- or premiere nights by regionals/districts. That would be a huge benefit for scouting teams.

Boy is that a cool idea. Increase the "hype" before each week's regionals too!

barn34

20-02-2014, 14:45

Agreeing on all points. Plus, missing the bandwagon for FRC reveal videos for the Premiere Night hurts teams in their struggle to visibility, especially with this high and ever-increasing number of teams.

The Premiere Night, instead of working on exclusivity to distinguish itself from the "competition", could instead have its own features, for example premiere nights by regions -- say, for example, Midwest Premiere Night, International Premiere Night, Mexican/Canadian Premiere Night, etc. -- or premiere nights by regionals/districts. That would be a huge benefit for scouting teams.

I understand what you're saying and it would be of great benefit for scouting teams. However, I put in the work to essentially sift through the videos that are released myself so my team and I can go back and watch ones for teams we will be competing with/against. Why should all that work have to fall on the guys who are doing an awesome thing for the community, which I know has to already be a ton of work as is? That may be more convenient from a scouting standpoint for the individual regional participating teams, but that's not the point of premiere night at all. On top of that, it would significantly REDUCE the visibility for the participating teams because a portion of the people who would watch the full premiere night would then only watch the premiere night for the regionals that they are attending. That seems like a huge step backwards in the effort to get more teams a little time to shine and get noticed in the sea of high profile reveal video juggernauts like 118, 148, etc.

In my oppinion, I have to agree to some extent with the limitations on 'leaks' being negative points towards teams wanting to participate. I completely understand wanting the exclusive 'first look' aspect to drive a large audience for getting everyone to see videos every team works very hard to create. People may be first tuning in for highly anticpated reveals for high profile teams, and get to see all the other hard work from teams that they may not be familiar with peppered in. It's a great system for getting more teams recognition for the amazing work they do. I would think just establishing a criteria or framework that still encourages all the awesome cross team efforts in gracious perfessionism and coopertition where certain things might get 'leaked' throughout the season would effectively fulfill all the pros and eliminate most of the cons people are pointing out. In fact, teams that do get spotlighted through news stories and other media outlets should be rewarded for those accomplishments with certain prime slots or spotlights in the premiere night line up, not punished for doing something every team should be striving to accomplish: public outreach and recognition for FIRST and their team.

Still, amazing thing you guys are doing and I fully support it. With any process, there's some iteration needed to work out some of the kinks and round off the rough edges. This is that time period for Premiere Night. Hopefully we can all help you squash the bugs in the current system and help create a yearly tradition for premiere night that grows participation and anticipation every year moving forward. :)

AdamHeard

20-02-2014, 14:47

We have your submission and can't wait for Saturday night! Thanks!

As for people voicing their concerns, please continue to do so as we take everything into account as we plan for next year.

It's the rigidness that turns people off. It just seems crazy up tight for a show that is just two guys sitting at a table talking. If the production value were better it'd be more in line with the expectations you put on teams.

Libby K

20-02-2014, 14:50

I kinda like this. The FiM Premiere Night, the MAR Premiere Night, the California Premiere Night, the NY Premiere Night. It'd be cool.

I do think that's a little taxing on the hosts, though - while a cool idea, they probably don't want to be broadcasting every single night from Bag Day to Week 1...

My only thing with the no-sharing rule is that 1923's robot was posted in every local newspaper for our end-of-season open house - and now our social media team can't share those articles on our own pages until they're way out of date. (Not that our robot looks the same as it did a week before bag, but there are 'complete mechanisms' shown, so we couldn't promote that.) However, our students decided they wanted to do Premiere Night, so we took that risk. We'll still post the articles after this weekend's reveal.

I've said this elsewhere - it's totally your team's choice to participate or not. If you feel like you've come up with something groundbreaking that you think will help the FIRST community, then share it. If you want to reveal your robot, but not on Premiere Night, go for it. There's no reason you can't make your own reveal video and post it on Chief, like so many teams have done for years (118, 148, 610, 11 - all of those are on my front page of Chief right now.) If you don't want to share at all, then do that! What a team does is their own business and their own choice.

I love the idea of feedback and live commentary during Premiere Night, and I'll be tuning in to watch what everyone thinks of the other robots (as well as ours). It's the reason we chose to share (or not) the way we did. Will 1923 do it next year if there are sharing restrictions? We'll see - depends on what the students choose to do and what we come up with.

minhnhatbui

20-02-2014, 15:03

I understand what you're saying, it would be of great benefit for scouting, but that's why our team puts in the work to essentially sift through the videos that are released ourselves. Why should all that work have to fall on these guys who are doing an awesome thing for the community, which I know has to already be a ton of work as is, just so it's more convenient for the individual regional participating teams? That seems like a very selfish request. On top of that, that would significantly REDUCE the visibility for the participating teams because a portion of the people who would watch the full premiere night would then only watch the premiere night for the regionals that they are attending. That seems like a huge step backwards in the effort to get more teams a little time to shine and get noticed in the sea of high profile reveal video juggernauts like 118, 148, etc.

In my oppinion, I have to agree to some extent with the limitations on 'leaks' being a negative points towards teams wanting to participate. I completely understand wanting the exclusive 'first look' aspect to drive a large audience for getting everyone to see videos every team works very hard to create while they may be first tuning in for highly anticpated reveals for high profile teams. I would think just establishing a criteria or framework that still encourages all the awesome cross team efforts in gracious perfessionism and coopertition where certain things might get 'leaked' throughout the season would effectively fulfill all the pros and eliminate most of the cons people are pointing out.

Still, amazing thing you guys are doing and I fully support it. With any process, there's some iteration needed to work out some of the kinks and round off the rough edges. This is that time period for Premiere Night. Hopefully we can all help you squash the bugs in the current system and help create a yearly tradition for premiere night that grows participation and anticipation every year moving forward. :)

I'm sorry if I appear to suggest "shifting" work from students to guys like Mike and Justin, who by the way are doing a great work for the FRC community in creating a show about robots. My point was that wanting exclusivity on videos might go towards their interest, but is conflicting with some teams' interests, including mine -- interests such as cooperation, jumping sooner in the bandwagon, etc.

I was suggesting multiple premiere nights for two reasons:

1) Reduce a single 4-6 hours show that would be hard to watch in its entirety;
2) Have a premiere night each week so that it increases the hype before each event;

It would create a hype for each event. Good scouting teams will not limit themselves in watching robots attending their events.

I don't think this formula would reduce visibility for Mike and Justin; on the contrary, each week, people would be expecting a preview show à la ESPN, done by Mike and Justin, with more time and added narrative for each team. IMHO, it would really give FIRST an image of a varsity program if there is such show with added narrative, history and interview for each team. Mike and Justin could fill that hole.

Andrew Schreiber

20-02-2014, 15:12

I'm sorry if I appear to suggest "shifting" work from students to guys like Mike and Justin, who by the way are doing a great work for the FRC community in creating a show about robots. My point was that wanting exclusivity on videos might go towards their interest, but is conflicting with some teams' interests, including mine -- interests such as cooperation, jumping sooner in the bandwagon, etc.

I was suggesting multiple premiere nights for two reasons:

1) Reduce a single 4-6 hours show that would be hard to watch in its entirety;
2) Have a premiere night each week so that it increases the hype before each event;

It would create a hype for each event. Good scouting teams will not limit themselves in watching robots attending their events.

I don't think this formula would reduce visibility for Mike and Justin; on the contrary, each week, people would be expecting a preview show à la ESPN, done by Mike and Justin, with more time and added narrative for each team. IMHO, it would really give FIRST an image of a varsity program if there is such show with added narrative, history and interview for each team. Mike and Justin could fill that hole.

Having actually done a preview show weekly during competition season, it's absolutely brutal. Add into that never having a [day] to yourself for 2 months also starts to take a toll when you work a full time job too.

Doing the whole thing at once is far less brutal on the hosts as you get it done and can recover. Even that is rough though - Our EWCP CMP preview casts take a toll on us every year. I don't think most people take into considering how hard it is to keep conversation flowing, avoid dead air, stay on target, monitor chat, and ensure that the stream is going out. It's a lot to keep track of.

Libby K

20-02-2014, 15:29

I was suggesting multiple premiere nights for two reasons:

1) Reduce a single 4-6 hours show that would be hard to watch in its entirety;
2) Have a premiere night each week so that it increases the hype before each event;

The thing about this is, they already do a show every week during the season... so you'd want them to do two show nights?

Having actually done a preview show weekly during competition season, it's absolutely brutal. Add into that never having a [day] to yourself for 2 months also starts to take a toll when you work a full time job too.

^^ This. The burnout would be pretty intense for them. I think one Premiere Night is plenty.

minhnhatbui

20-02-2014, 15:39

The thing about this is, they already do a show every week during the season... so you'd want them to do two show nights?

Multiple premiere nights by regionals/districts was just a suggestion to "sensationalize" FIRST, not a request. I do understand the burden and the toll: I am myself in that situation with two jobs at 30-40 hours/week, university at 20 hours/week and mentoring at 20-30 hours/week. We all live in the same, harsh reality that is FIRST.

barn34

20-02-2014, 15:40

In my oppinion, the weekly blog posts by certain individuals highlighting each week's competitions with predictions and little tidbits about the game trends and strategies is fine for event anticipation. Doing a video version of that would be exponentially tougher, I'm sure. Would it be cool? Of course. Worth the work to make it and do it week after week throughout competition season? Not so sure. Guess that depends on who would be contributing and how a work load would be destributed. Definitely don't think we, as a community, are at that point right now. I could be wrong though...

Libby K

20-02-2014, 15:41

Multiple premiere nights by regionals/districts was just a suggestion to "sensationalize" FIRST, not a request. I do understand the burden and the toll: I am myself in that situation with two jobs at 30-40 hours/week, university at 20 hours/week and mentoring at 20 hours/week. We all live in the same, harsh reality that is FIRST.

Very true. I think that's a nice way to 'make it loud', but perhaps that would then be on each team/the regional or district committee to hype their event up, rather than on two guys who are already very busy providing something the FIRST community enjoys. :)

AllenGregoryIV

20-02-2014, 15:55

I have a new point to make about this. I understand not wanting people to post their reveal videos, that makes sense. But posting anything else seems reasonable. We posted video of our mecanum wheel collector on February 3rd, most of the comments on our reveal video thread were about how they had never seen a team do that. We get about 150-200 views a day on our blog, premier night pulls in a much larger audience than that.

Even if people have posted videos/photos/detailed design descriptions. Most of FRC is too busy building their own robots to care. The exclusivity doesn't really make that much of a difference. A lot of people still won't look at other teams' robots till after build season.

Chris is me

20-02-2014, 16:04

I've said this elsewhere - it's totally your team's choice to participate or not. If you feel like you've come up with something groundbreaking that you think will help the FIRST community, then share it. If you want to reveal your robot, but not on Premiere Night, go for it. There's no reason you can't make your own reveal video and post it on Chief, like so many teams have done for years (118, 148, 610, 11 - all of those are on my front page of Chief right now.) If you don't want to share at all, then do that! What a team does is their own business and their own choice.

The difficulty here, and what I've been saying since the first post of this thread, is that decisions aren't made in a vacuum. Making something optional doesn't automatically mean its net effect on the greater community is neutral, and "it's optional!" can't be a universal defense.

What Premiere Night does is creates an incentive for middle of the pack teams to distinguish themselves from others, and the price of admission is secrecy. There are teams who would share if they could but value the publicity more. Dozens of them. The unintended consequences of this are that less information is shared in public in general. Maybe that's a small part of why we see so many Ri3D clones?

---

Responding to Justin's request for continued feedback, here are our experiences:

At first, our team was excited to participate in Reveal Night. We attribute a lot of our relative notoriety to our participation in it last year and the team loved the idea of showing off our robot with a flashy video. As the weeks have gone on, we've had to keep reminding kids, our social media team, and adults not to share robot photos publicly. By the end of build season, almost all of the team has grown fed up with the restrictions and thinks that releasing an independent reveal video on our own terms would have been a better option.

We are still planning to participate, but that's mainly because the 90-second video won't be done until a few hours before the deadline anyway and we've already sunk the cost of secrecy - it would be dumb to give up participating now. Without a rule change, however, we will not be participating in this event again.

(By the way, as an aside, another frustrating thing about the competition has been the ever changing rule details combined with the seriousness. At first, no complete mechanism could be posted. Then, frames could be posted as long as it wasn't your whole drivetrain. Later on, a post said that completed drivetrains were actually okay to post all along - I can't find any post prior to this one (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1335743&postcount=30) saying that. If you're going to have strict rules, at least define them well and stick to them.)

Mike Starke

21-02-2014, 09:31

joelg236

22-02-2014, 00:03

Hey everyone! A little less than 12 hours left to get your videos in! Head on over to FRCTop25.com to submit!
We will release a list of teams participating tomorrow morning!

Let us know if you have any questions, and we'll see you tomorrow night!!

Can't wait to see who'll be there. I'm excited to see teams like 33 and 1986 (hopefully!), but I feel like this game opens up the competition to any team with a clever design.

M. Lillis

22-02-2014, 00:24

177 was going to submit, but our schedule didn't allow for it this year.

TikiTech

22-02-2014, 02:45

Howzit!

We had some reservations at first but decided that it is well worth it. For a small team like us, it is a chance at greater exposure. We are very proud of our robot and were able to show some "teasers" on CD and still, I believe, qualify for this event. There are some new additions that were added to the robot just before bagging that video was not available to our media team to make part of our reveal. This gives us some surprises left to share later on, or for you to discover at the regional we are competing at.

I cannot wait to see all the great robot reveal videos...

Good luck to everyone!!

Aloha..

tkell274

22-02-2014, 11:54

What I think could be done in regards to the whole district/regional reveal would be for either all the videos to be released individually on the website and have students compile the list and put it together on Delphi, or have the regional/district pages that would be interested in this sort of thing set up an area on their website to submit and then have a reveal two or three days before the event. This would allow the work to fall to a lot more people so it could actually be done and be a really cool way to scout in the future.

Mike Starke

22-02-2014, 12:00

Hey everyone! We are so excited for Premiere Night tonight! We can't wait to spend the evening with you guys watching some amazing teams!

We have moved our channel to www.livestream.com/FRCTop25 (http://www.livestream.com/FRCTop25), so update your bookmarks as needed!

We are excited to have 62 teams participating in Premiere Night. Can't wait to see what these teams have come up with to play Aerial Assist!

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