View Full Version : [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
Not sure if this occurred to anyone yet, but the hint seems to be structured as Morse Code. The "/" and "," separators are used to construct messages.
Perhaps someone can run with this.
No real pattern I see, but an interesting thought occurred to me as I was typing this. What if the binary is Morse code? the zeros could be dashes and the ones could be dots or the other way around. Anyone want to have a stab at translating it?
If two people come to this conclusion without, presumably, co-operation, maybe this is worth pursuing.
Hey Everyone -- my first post on CD!
Not sure if this occurred to anyone yet, but the hint seems to be structured as Morse Code. The "/" and "," separators are used to construct messages.
The first portion of the message becomes:
8234/57
10000000101010 / 111001
-. .. ... .. -.-. -. / ---...
The problem is, there are many potential groupings of letters.
Perhaps someone can run with this.
Is there any rhyme or reason to the spaces you put in the morse code?
Edit - I originally asked how to get from the original number to the 1s and 0s, then realized...binary
I used the Decimal-to-Binary translation feature in Google. There are a number of alternatives online.
Is there any rhyme or reason to the spaces you put in the morse code?
I assumed "1" = "dash" and "0" = "dot", but there is no reason why the complement might not also be true (which adds another layer of complexity).
The groupings of dashes and dots was from an early attempt to parse the sequence into separate characters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse_code
61126 is a zip code in Rockford, Illinois.
Rockford is also called 'The Forest City', forest could = trees = tree climbing? Some type of climbing? Or it could tie into the green theme that was thrown around.
Also, and this is probably not connected, but when I googled '1963 robots' it came up with a page that said Iron Man was first drawn up in 1963. No idea how that would tie in though.
Zeromonkey
20-12-2013, 23:14
8234/57, 61126/1963, 62326/15806
Just putting that string there again so we don't lose focus. We remember what we are trying to figure out.
Anyways.
There has been some stipulation as to if these numbers could be code for something. For those following that pursuit, someone found earlier that the median of the numbers if put in consecutive order is 4. This could be a possible key. I am not educated in this area, but have at it everyone!
Another thing I have realized from looking at this hint and previous hints given by FIRST is that they like to give us hints that connect inside of the hint as well as outside. With that in mind, lets look at the hint.
They possibly connect the ideas using the slashes and differentiate between ideas using the commas. Makes sense right?
Look at the middle numbers: "61126/1963"
We have found that the first number refers to Rockford, Illinois. (Although the 62326 may also refer to Colchester, IL as well, let's just focus on the middle term). Rockford is in Illinois. We have another value as well, the "1963".
My friends and I have two theories.
One:
Rockford is in Winnebago County. The Winnebago 1963 was a travel trailer. Do trailers mind you of something?
Two:
In 1963, the Chicago Bears won the NFL Championship game against the NY Giants 14 to 10. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Championship_Game,_1963) This is where things get interesting. The game was the 31st annual championship game. Now divide the two middle numbers. What do you get? 31.1390...
This would also mean a game of football.
Just some food for thought!
Rockford is also called 'The Forest City', forest could = trees = tree climbing? Some type of climbing? Or it could tie into the green theme that was thrown around.
Also, and this is probably not connected, but when I googled '1963 robots' it came up with a page that said Iron Man was first drawn up in 1963. No idea how that would tie in though.
We have been known as the Screw City as well from the amount of screws we use to produce. Kinda of an odd nickname. The name that is being pushed now is the Garden City.
I personally would be leaning towards the baseball side, if it has anything to do with zip codes at all. Rockford had the Rockford Peaches which is a famous girls baseball team. Then Colchester, IL has some history with baseball as well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchester,_Illinois).
I doubt it has anything to do with the Gates factory as that closed down and is now gone.
For those following that pursuit, someone found earlier that the median of the numbers if put in consecutive order is 4. This could be a possible key. I am not educated in this area, but have at it everyone!
Just some food for thought!
Oh Noes :ahh:
I was hoping that I wouldn't have to think of AP Stats at all this winter break.
The median is a center of spread, which could be interpreted many different ways. What would be even more interesting is if someone found the mean (average) or the inter-quartile range (IQR). That way, we could get some real statistical analysis on this hint.
Just some food for thought!
stevwa64
20-12-2013, 23:26
I think these have to be referencing some FRC-related documents somewhere online. Possibly the FRC website, twitter feeds, Facebook, etc.
The updated awards manual was just posted.
61126 - the 6th word of section 6.11.2 is "Safe Driving"
http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/viewItem/9#6.11
None of the other numbers make any sense to me. Possibly they could be decoded to IP address of a server with more clues, but IP addresses are usually 4-tuples, not triplets.
Just grasping.
Steve
gabrielau23
20-12-2013, 23:27
I recall getting darn close in 2012.
Last year I'd say got pretty close.
Im calling baseball...just have that feeling. My opinion lol
karomata
20-12-2013, 23:38
So I've been watching this thread and this is my first time posting on this particular thread...
A while back there was discussion of the appliance of zip codes through the means of the digits, however we were looking at the locations and what was at that area. After looking through some of those areas and thinking it out a bit, I think these zip codes aren't about what's there, but instead, what has happened there.
Specifically, when the USA has held the Olympics, the zip codes defined are areas that have hosted the passing of the Olympic torch. Additionally, this year there will be another winter Olympics in Sochi, Russia. The Olympics are often viewed as the ultimate sporting event, so it almost seems logical that FIRST would justify putting 2 years of effort into a game that identifies with the Olympics.
Putting this into a game, perhaps a large element of the game is based on passing field elements? However this doesn't seem likely because there is no guarantee that all teams will have the ability to pass the game object by competitions, and doing so would ruin the chances of alliances that they end up on. That is unless, the GDC found a way to do it that to be able to pass, it is so basic and teams are able to play around that element of the game if they wish, that it balances itself out.
This year the new sports added to the official Olympic sports list are:
Figure skating team event
Women's ski jumping
Mixed relay biathlon
Ski half-pipe
Team relay luge
Ski slopestyle
Snowboard slopestyle
Snowboard parallel special slalom
Perhaps the game pieces would stay on the ground, necessitating that robots only need to be able to move around to be able to pass, however teams may be able to develop aiming devices to improve their functionality. And then just to throw something way out there, maybe the endgame could be that you have to deliver a special game object to a giant cauldron to claim it for your alliance, similar to how the Olympic flame would ignite the cauldron.
I feel like I might be on to something or I've just finally lost my mind :D
Maybe it has something to do with the Macy's Parade? I dunno, just throwing that out there.
saikiranra
20-12-2013, 23:45
Maybe it has something to do with the Macy's Parade? I dunno, just throwing that out there.
No, I believe that Macy's contacted FIRST to do that. Games, I also believe, are designed a year in advanced.
Anthony4004
20-12-2013, 23:48
Ok so they just released this video today to show the AndyMark team run by Andy himself. Andy is on in line with the kit of parts team and (from knowledge of a friend of a friend on the actually game commity) is knowledge slightly of the game. In the video Andy makes SEVERAL references to baseball. BOOM baseball game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJTpQmPpjmY&feature=youtu.be
CLandrum3081
20-12-2013, 23:52
...Team relay luge...
Reading posts to my mom and she screams,
"IT'S AN UNDERWATER LUGE GAME!"
I've taught her so well. :p
BleakRNS
20-12-2013, 23:54
Ok so they just released this video today to show the AndyMark team run by Andy himself. Andy is on in line with the kit of parts team and (from knowledge of a friend of a friend on the actually game commity) is knowledge slightly of the game. In the video Andy makes SEVERAL references to baseball. BOOM baseball game.
In addition, check out the last sentence of this blog post (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-FIRST-Choice-Opening-Postponed-Part-2).
But they can't be that blatant, can they?
Ok so they just released this video today to show the AndyMark team run by Andy himself. Andy is on in line with the kit of parts team and (from knowledge of a friend of a friend on the actually game commity) is knowledge slightly of the game. In the video Andy makes SEVERAL references to baseball. BOOM baseball game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJTpQmPpjmY&feature=youtu.be
At this point I'm almost starting to think that baseball is actually to throw us off, it almost seems too obvious at this point...
The_ShamWOW88
20-12-2013, 23:56
I'm leaning baseball having something to do with it (gameplay, game piece, etc) as of right now, unless something more significant is derived from the numbers.
Between the past few references about baseball to both towns having a reference to baseball, the Rockford Peaches and the Chicago Black Sox playing a game in Colchester after the betting scandal. Of course, this could be a carefully placed diversion too.
So I've been watching this thread and this is my first time posting on this particular thread...
A while back there was discussion of the appliance of zip codes through the means of the digits, however we were looking at the locations and what was at that area. After looking through some of those areas and thinking it out a bit, I think these zip codes aren't about what's there, but instead, what has happened there.
Specifically, when the USA has held the Olympics, the zip codes defined are areas that have hosted the passing of the Olympic torch. Additionally, this year there will be another winter Olympics in Sochi, Russia. The Olympics are often viewed as the ultimate sporting event, so it almost seems logical that FIRST would justify putting 2 years of effort into a game that identifies with the Olympics.
Putting this into a game, perhaps a large element of the game is based on passing field elements? However this doesn't seem likely because there is no guarantee that all teams will have the ability to pass the game object by competitions, and doing so would ruin the chances of alliances that they end up on. That is unless, the GDC found a way to do it that to be able to pass, it is so basic and teams are able to play around that element of the game if they wish, that it balances itself out.
This year the new sports added to the official Olympic sports list are:
Figure skating team event
Women's ski jumping
Mixed relay biathlon
Ski half-pipe
Team relay luge
Ski slopestyle
Snowboard slopestyle
Snowboard parallel special slalom
Perhaps the game pieces would stay on the ground, necessitating that robots only need to be able to move around to be able to pass, however teams may be able to develop aiming devices to improve their functionality. And then just to throw something way out there, maybe the endgame could be that you have to deliver a special game object to a giant cauldron to claim it for your alliance, similar to how the Olympic flame would ignite the cauldron.
I feel like I might be on to something or I've just finally lost my mind :D
Going off of what you have said the most anticipated sport that is played during the winter olympics is hockey. Maybe the GDC will focus on hockey rather then any other game because it is easier to play.
Zeromonkey
21-12-2013, 00:10
If you take each digit in the hint and rearrange them in numerical order, you get
0111122223334556666667889
The middle number is 4, with twelve numbers on either side.
Also, 0 and 9 appear with the same frequency as 4.
The median is a center of spread, which could be interpreted many different ways. What would be even more interesting is if someone found the mean (average) or the inter-quartile range (IQR). That way, we could get some real statistical analysis on this hint.
Don't worry. I gotchu so you don't have to do AP Stats! :cool:
Given the above data, we can find the mean: 4.12
And the median: 4
We can also find the quartiles: Q_1= 2, Q_3= 6
And the max/min: Min= 0, Max= 9
That means the IQR is: 4 (Curious...)
There are no outliers.
Not sure what you can do with this data, but maybe it will be of some use to you!
czielinski
21-12-2013, 00:19
Okay. Let's recap all that we have up to this point:
The numbers are possibly zip codes
They are zip codes for cities that have a connection to baseball
In Andy Baker's video for the Robot in Three Days, he uses a baseball bat.
In the kit of parts apology letter, the following phrase is used: "Our apologies for the two strikes this weekend, we promise our next swing will be a home run."
Statistics have been ran to show there are no outliers
No results from the hex theory or anything that worked last year
Morse code is a possibility but with many different ways to be coded into english it's almost impossible to figure out
Everything leads to baseball however, it has been presented that this is trying to throw us all off?
Also, that the game could possibly relate to the 2014 Winter Olympic Games
Finally, a picture of a man, Woodie, and Dean have been posted so check that out it there is potential for anything to be dug into with that photo
That's all the pertinent information i've taken away from this thread so far
mhos1997
21-12-2013, 00:22
Finally, a picture of a man, Woodie, and Dean have been posted so check that out it there is potential for anything to be dug into with that photo
That's all the pertinent information i've taken away from this thread so far
Guys, the other guy is Donald E. Bossi, the president of FIRST.
http://www.usfirst.org/aboutus/bio/don-bossi.
But, great ideas, i'm probably leaning towards baseball, or football.
karomata
21-12-2013, 00:25
Okay. Let's recap all that we have up to this point:
The numbers are possibly zip codes
They are zip codes for cities that have a connection to baseball
In Andy Baker's video for the Robot in Three Days, he uses a baseball bat.
In the kit of parts apology letter, the following phrase is used: "Our apologies for the two strikes this weekend, we promise our next swing will be a home run."
Statistics have been ran to show there are no outliers
No results from the hex theory or anything that worked last year
Morse code is a possibility but with many different ways to be coded into english it's almost impossible to figure out
Everything leads to baseball however, it has been presented that this is trying to throw us all off?
Also, that the game could possibly relate to the 2014 Winter Olympic Games
Finally, a picture of a man, Woodie, and Dean have been posted so check that out it there is potential for anything to be dug into with that photo
That's all the pertinent information i've taken away from this thread so far
As previously mentioned, I think the whole baseball theme is a red herring. It doesn't seem too feasible nor safe, and the fact that it seems so obvious lends itself to being a false lead. I mean, like really, when's the last time FIRST or the GDC gave us anything on a silver platter like that?
Abhishek R
21-12-2013, 00:27
Though I can't imagine using actual baseballs...maybe something like a wiffle ball or just the bases aspect...
I haven't read the entire thread, but here's a lovely list of things that happened in 1953 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953)
cadandcookies
21-12-2013, 00:40
Mmmm, I love the smell of wild mass guessing in the evening.
ReapersRule
21-12-2013, 00:40
I would like to point out that depending on exactly what the game is, baseball may not be that much more dangerous than frisbee. Maybe they're just pulling elements from baseball, or using baseballs as a game piece.
Kevin Leonard
21-12-2013, 00:41
Okay. Let's recap all that we have up to this point:
The numbers are possibly zip codes
They are zip codes for cities that have a connection to baseball
In Andy Baker's video for the Robot in Three Days, he uses a baseball bat.
In the kit of parts apology letter, the following phrase is used: "Our apologies for the two strikes this weekend, we promise our next swing will be a home run."
Statistics have been ran to show there are no outliers
No results from the hex theory or anything that worked last year
Morse code is a possibility but with many different ways to be coded into english it's almost impossible to figure out
Everything leads to baseball however, it has been presented that this is trying to throw us all off?
Also, that the game could possibly relate to the 2014 Winter Olympic Games
Finally, a picture of a man, Woodie, and Dean have been posted so check that out it there is potential for anything to be dug into with that photo
That's all the pertinent information i've taken away from this thread so far
And that two of the numbers can be colors in RGB:
found out that 8234/57 = 144.4561404... which google brought up to be the hex code of green.
also - 61126/1963 = 31.13907285... which is the hex code of BLUE, same method.
And that some of the data might relate back to Dr. Who.
runneals
21-12-2013, 00:44
Guys, the other guy is Donald E. Bossi, the president of FIRST.
http://www.usfirst.org/aboutus/bio/don-bossi.
But, great ideas, i'm probably leaning towards baseball, or football.
If we do in fact do football, our local energy company threw out some awesome foam football game pieces (https://twitter.com/frcneutrino/status/352822721199095809/photo/1) at the July 4th parade, which I think they would probably look like.
Going back to this picture: http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2014/Kickoff-Filming.jpg
Im surprised no one has commented about how, from left to right, they have 0, 1, then 2 feet on the ground.
Endgame involving climbing on something? full points for fully supported, partial points for partially supported.
What if we get points for being lower? As in maybe the robots will be higher most of the time, then get bonus points for being lower somehow?
Not that it would matter, but the post says 16:08 and it was definitely not posted at 16:08... (more like 16:20)
Well, if this is true, then in 1608 I found this
Prototype of modern reflecting telescope completed by Jan Lippershey
Something with light maybe?
Also, I don't think that 1963 and the rockford, il is a coincidence.
mickeyds0071
21-12-2013, 01:02
I honestly think the best bet is baseball. I think this year will have that aim high feel to it with small nerf baseball sized balls going into goals at different heights like in ultimate ascent and rebound rumble. Kind of like that idk if anyone has seen it but the gumball pinball machine that looks like a baseball field the homerun will be a smaller hole than a sinigle or double and different point value. To me it sounds like a fun a game. Just some thoughts
LunatickLauren
21-12-2013, 01:07
Anyone else notice the color components say "3"? It says "There are no game clues in this photo" but what if it's in the details of the photo? Aka: 3 alliances, red, blue, green?
The_ShamWOW88
21-12-2013, 01:10
Ok, stick with me here guys. Not sure of the significance but if you take the 144.456 from dividing the first two numbers, you get a radio frequency from a beacon with the coordinates 50.479167 / 10.041667 which place you in Germany. Still working out how this means anything yet.
runneals
21-12-2013, 01:23
Ok, stick with me here guys. Not sure of the significance but if you take the 144.456 from dividing the first two numbers, you get a radio frequency from a beacon with the coordinates 50.479167 / 10.041667 which place you in Germany. Still working out how this means anything yet.
144.456 is in the 2 meter band of Ham Radio. What if the game is finding radio beacons? (Although this would probably be a pain for teams, as you need an FCC license to operate on them).
de KD0SET
Shadowstriker
21-12-2013, 01:33
So I've been analyzing this hint and using the single digits to get 4/3 5/4 5/5.
Taking this and removing divisions and spaces you get 43545 to pull up on Google, information for an IR High Temp Thermometer.
144.456 is in the 2 meter band of Ham Radio. What if the game is finding radio beacons? (Although this would probably be a pain for teams, as you need an FCC license to operate on them).
My theory since last season has been IR or some other type of RF signal for aiming, as opposed to reflective tape.
All these references to Dr. Who connecting with FIRST..... "Who's on FIRST; Baseball Game. Probably not
BobRaygen
21-12-2013, 03:03
From the
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-Kit-of-Parts-Drive-System-Option-2014
Looking at the changes to this years game base kit might help us figure this thing out. Especially since it was stated that the specifics would give away the game, or not. Is there a reason they specifically say 10.5 feet per second? The post might be a secret hint. Superstructures, can be like bridges.*Can be tied to the future water game* Or maybe there is a tower that robots must drive around wearing.*Or maybe they carry a tardus* why is “long robot” and “wide” in quotations?
Also looking at the image http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15605&d=1387605929
might uncover more clues. Not the image as much as the details under it. Is there a copy of this picture that doesn't have the black circle crossing out the bottom most number? Also color seems to be a big theme, and 3 colors in particular. The same colors in JPEG, unless I am wrong, Red Green Blue. Maybe 3 alliances, maybe instead 3 types of vision targets, in 3 different colors? If you imagine the image width and length as inches, and convert to feet, we could have rectangular field dimensions.
Well I don't know how this relate but looking at the hint
8234/57, 61126/1963, 62326/15806
under the assumption that the / means or in this case.
On the left side of the /,
the digits that repeat in 8234, there are none, 0
the digits that repeat in 61126, 1 and 6. 2 is the odd one out
the digits the repeat in 62326 is, 2 and 6. 3 is the odd one out
AND
6 repeats in both numbers. 1,2. 2,3. and 6. :yikes:
Things to think about.
EDIT: No one seems to have read all the way through, and I understand why so here is the important part that I would like attention brought too.
I think there is some reason why they said easier to attach superstructures to base. They didn't say mount, attach. Something in this game might do with ... o dear everything is falling into place. The lunacy references and the recycling of past games. It might just be a game similar to lunacy where you attach something to your robot, like a superstructure 0-0 *because that is descriptive*! Maybe the three colors represent three different types of recycling, like paper, glass etc. Each robot in the alliance has a different bin attached to them like in lunacy, and we need to put the game pieces in their proper bin. there is probably only 2 of each type, and the scoring is either 0, 1, or 2 properly recycled. Which ties in with their feet in the image (because feet are important!) 6 game pieces per alliance.
well ok the whole recycling game might not happen, but reusing the idea of attaching something to your bot, like in lunacy is probably a thing. Explains why they wont tell us the full details about whats what with the base. Could be anything we attach though, maybe we haul other robots around in a co-op like event.
Caleb Sykes
21-12-2013, 04:24
Okay, so I programmed a rough binary to morse code converter to test out that theory. I tried plugging in 8234 = 1000000010101010 and I got the output in the attached file. I also tried 57 = 111001, which is a much more readable option. Among the interesting ones that I saw in 8234:
be star
die inc
the earn
dive ten
I might play around with the settings later to try to filter the massive number of results. I am also curious to see what happens with 16 bits for each number. But I think I should go sleep now.
If anyone would like me to run any other numbers through, I would be more than happy to do so, although I will not look through every output for you :yikes:.
Caleb Sykes
21-12-2013, 04:38
I just realized that I assumed 0=DOT and 1=DASH for no good reason. Here are the inverted outputs. Tell me if you find any outputs that do not translate correctly, I tend not to trust code that:
1. works on the first try
2. works for the first time at 3:30 AM
yarden.saa
21-12-2013, 05:29
I searched the numbers in google earth with my brother.
The second numer refers to a sign "FIRST Security"
The third number refers to the "FIRST Baptist church"
The first number is very intresting, there is a strange sign that I couldn't read it all: "Weight limit reduced 25%"
It means that the robot weight limit is going to be 90 pound.
Bryce Paputa
21-12-2013, 05:31
I searched the numbers in google earth with my brother.
The second numer refers to a sign "FIRST Security"
The third number refers to the "FIRST Baptist church"
The first number is very intresting, there is a strange sign that I couldn't read it all: "Weight limit reduced 25%"
It means that the robot weight limit is going to be 90 pound.
Source?
Emily286
21-12-2013, 05:36
Maybe the numbers are from the periodic table and we will have to form molecules with balls that represent atoms, and the numbers are the atomic numbers of different atoms...
yarden.saa
21-12-2013, 05:43
Source?
it's attached
another thing, I found a US post office in front of the "FIRST Security sign"
yarden.saa
21-12-2013, 06:06
Better picture,
wilhitern1
21-12-2013, 06:11
There is a train engine the CSX 8234
Do you remember a TV Show called the Rockford Files?
Neal
The only thing I could pull off google for '1963 baseball' that I could find a way to possibly tie in was that the New York Yankees (Who came in first place for the AL East) had 104 wins and 57 losses.
Someone else might have better luck looking
wilhitern1
21-12-2013, 06:41
The S&W 57 is a revolver.
Neal
wilhitern1
21-12-2013, 06:55
Or
http://www.morethantoys.com.au/shop/race-track/102-57-c8234-scalextric-radius-2-curve-225-degree.html
[It's model number appears to be 57-C8234]
Could bring us back to racing.
I tend not to trust code that:
1. works on the first try
2. works for the first time at 3:30 AM
I like your approach. I would tend to not trust it either.
Anyway, I'm really not getting much out of those Morse Code "translations."
MooreteP
21-12-2013, 08:19
Maybe the numbers are from the periodic table and we will have to form molecules with balls that represent atoms, and the numbers are the atomic numbers of different atoms...
it's attached
another thing, I found a US post office in front of the "FIRST Security sign"
The time zone shift.
Our friends in Israel, the most important FIRST outpost on the planet, are cogitating the clue.
Emily has provided one of the more interesting interpretations, though I don't think that game would be "fan-friendly".
I think the KOP change to easily accommodate different attachments means that a modular robot that can perform unique functions, depending on the abilities of the alliance partners, may be in order this year.
This, along with the three people (okay, Dean is somewhat robotic at times :) ) in the picture, suggests a triad that can work together points to 3v3v3.
It's hard enough to explain the game to the casual observer with 6 robots. 9 robots?!
Well at least we may get the increased number of matches in a Regional or District that we have asked for, but the coordination of the matches will be tough. If this is the case, I predict 3:00 matches, with more time between matches.
Ohhh, the batteries! Ohhh, the scouting.
A scoring robot, a defense robot, and a third for a unique endgame.
Hockeyball? Basekey?
Umpires, referees, replay booths? I hope not.
I need to wrap presents.
Happy Solstice. The only holiday created by "God". http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2013/12/20/winter-solstice-2013-shortest-day-of-the-year-but-sunset-already-creeping-later/?tid=pm_pop
12:11 on 12/21 (almost a palindrome)
Waning gibbous.
Lunacy
I need to wrap presents.
rwkling1
21-12-2013, 08:36
I think one thing that we're forgetting is the fact that FIRST is changing the KOP drive base. This may play a factor in what the game is.
Mubtasim
21-12-2013, 09:03
I searched the numbers in google earth with my brother.
The second numer refers to a sign "FIRST Security"
The third number refers to the "FIRST Baptist church"
The first number is very intresting, there is a strange sign that I couldn't read it all: "Weight limit reduced 25%"
It means that the robot weight limit is going to be 90 pound.
To me this seems like the best interpretation so far. What do you think the church and security might mean? And how exactly did you enter the numbers?
MooreteP
21-12-2013, 09:18
Baptist -> Baptism -> Water
Sorry
Gotta go wrap presents.
Looking at the previous posts, baseball does seem very possible. Just a question though, did any FRC game have an element that involved two robots from opposite teams doing something correctly (i.e. FRC tennis)?
3v3v3.
Not to offend anyone, but for all the people who are suggesting 3v3v3 or something of the sort: Have you ever been to a DISTRICT event? Space is already extremely limited as it is. It would be impossible to have 3v3v3, unless they drastically reduce the size of the playing field. Even queing areas would be a nightmare. I don't foresee 3v3v3 or anything similar coming for a very very long time. And if that change ever does come, half (probably more) of the high school gyms that are currently utilized for districts wouldn't be big enough to use anymore (Let alone offseason events...)
pfreivald
21-12-2013, 09:57
Not to offend anyone, but for all the people who are suggesting 3v3v3 or something of the sort: Have you ever been to a DISTRICT event? Space is already extremely limited as it is. It would be impossible to have 3v3v3, unless they drastically reduce the size of the playing field. Even queing areas would be a nightmare. I don't foresee 3v3v3 or anything similar coming for a very very long time. And if that change ever does come, half (probably more) of the high school gyms that are currently utilized for districts wouldn't be big enough to use anymore (Let alone offseason events...)
As a person with a reasonable amount of experience at game design, I'm confident they won't go with three teams--it's almost impossible to make a fair game under those circumstances.
nickmcski
21-12-2013, 10:24
Has anyone considered that the numbers could be a reference to a topic/post number on a forum? I looked on the first forum and found some things, as well as some dead ends.
rylerman1
21-12-2013, 10:40
Do you think that maybe it will take a string of plugging the numbers into the calculator? Or would that work? Take your answer and go through the process again. Maybe it will make sense after that.
rylerman1
21-12-2013, 10:44
Not to offend anyone, but for all the people who are suggesting 3v3v3 or something of the sort: Have you ever been to a DISTRICT event? Space is already extremely limited as it is. It would be impossible to have 3v3v3, unless they drastically reduce the size of the playing field. Even queing areas would be a nightmare. I don't foresee 3v3v3 or anything similar coming for a very very long time. And if that change ever does come, half (probably more) of the high school gyms that are currently utilized for districts wouldn't be big enough to use anymore (Let alone offseason events...)
I agree maybe not 3v3v3, but would 2v2v2 work? It's the same amount of robots, it just reduces the alliance size. It might work, then they could also reduce field size. But I agree it probably won't come around either way for a long time.
I agree maybe not 3v3v3, but would 2v2v2 work? It's the same amount of robots, it just reduces the alliance size. It might work, then they could also reduce field size. But I agree it probably won't come around either way for a long time.
I don't see why they would do that. It would be the same number of teams per match, and as Patrick Freivald said above, a game with three different teams is almost never fair. It would still make things crazy.
As for alliance stations - would one alliance have their teams on what side of the field, the second alliance have their teams on the other side of the field, and the third alliance have their teams split between the two sides of the field?
If there's actually a 90lb weight limit, I'm going to be very frustrated. The weight limit is tough as it is; I can only recall one robot I've worked on in the entirety of my time in FIRST that weighed under 90lbs.
yarden.saa
21-12-2013, 11:00
To me this seems like the best interpretation so far. What do you think the church and security might mean? And how exactly did you enter the numbers?
I think FIRST is just messing us around with the church. the security probably connected to the US post office that is in front.
It was really really easy to find it on google earth, I just entered the pairs of numbers (i.e 8234/57) and took the first option
theCADguy
21-12-2013, 11:28
If there is going to be a 90 lbs weight limit, we may be required to build robots that have a smaller frame perimeter.
Jonathan Lister
21-12-2013, 11:30
I like the weight interpretation. It seems like the most reasonable (least random) one to me.
As for the photo, I found a couple of things that I'm not sure if anyone has addressed yet (I was asleep last night, and I did not bother to check every single reply made while I was out). I'm especially curious about the thing in the background because I don't know what it is.
ivers123
21-12-2013, 11:39
On Febuary 26th, 1963, the 57th day of 1963, it seems their is a space related event that occured.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_1963
Maybe the debris is hinting at debris on the game field or structures that can be moved but have no other purpose than to get in the way of the robots. It would certainly be an interesting game if much of the strategy depended on maintaining control of the debris and using it to block the opposing robots from scoring.
theCADguy
21-12-2013, 11:46
On Febuary 26th, 1963, the 57th day of 1963, it seems their is a space related event that occured.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_1963
The spacecraft was headed towards Mars...
The game may have something to do with Mars or space exploration in general.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_1963
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_2MV-4_No.1
Joseph1825
21-12-2013, 11:52
I searched the numbers in google earth with my brother.
The second numer refers to a sign "FIRST Security"
The third number refers to the "FIRST Baptist church"
The first number is very intresting, there is a strange sign that I couldn't read it all: "Weight limit reduced 25%"
It means that the robot weight limit is going to be 90 pound.
Something you have to remember is the reversibility of the hints. Basiclly, if FIRST had been trying to point us to that sign they would have no way to find what search terms would point to that sign.
I like the weight interpretation. It seems like the most reasonable (least random) one to me.
As for the photo, I found a couple of things that I'm not sure if anyone has addressed yet (I was asleep last night, and I did not bother to check every single reply made while I was out). I'm especially curious about the thing in the background because I don't know what it is.
It seems that the things on the floor are two phones on a piece of paper. Not sure if that's some sort of metaphor. As for the thing in the background, I'm not sure.
Orion.DeYoe
21-12-2013, 11:54
So I had a thought that the slashes might not mean division, but instead that they're alternatives. I noticed that there are THREE sets of numbers separated by commas. Which means that if these were points then they would be points in 3d space (not 2D like the triangles that have been floating around on this thread). So I found a tool to plot points in 3d space (http://hotmath.com/learning_activities/interactivities/3dplotter.swf) and assumed that the slashes meant that the coordinate could be either number. That process would give us 8 possible points in a box pattern.
I can't figure out how to insert it into my post so I included the screenshot as an attachment.
(NOTE: I plotted the points at 1:1000 scale to make them fit on the graph better, according to geometry this will not affect the shape at all.)
Pratik Kunapuli
21-12-2013, 11:58
I highly doubt FIRST is going to use a large number of small game pieces (baseballs, wiffle-balls, foam footballs), purely because of the fact that the reset becomes exponentially harder to round up and count all of the game pieces.
MooreteP
21-12-2013, 12:01
Not to offend anyone, but for all the people who are suggesting 3v3v3 or something of the sort: Have you ever been to a DISTRICT event? Space is already extremely limited as it is. It would be impossible to have 3v3v3, unless they drastically reduce the size of the playing field. Even queing areas would be a nightmare. I don't foresee 3v3v3 or anything similar coming for a very very long time. And if that change ever does come, half (probably more) of the high school gyms that are currently utilized for districts wouldn't be big enough to use anymore (Let alone offseason events...)
Not offended at all. I agree with you about the logistical nightmare.
I just can't get the theme of threes out of my head.
Hat trick comment from the AndyMark FIRST choice debacle posts, as well as others.
Reminds me of the Triple Play hints.
Gotta finish wrapping presents.......
So I had a thought that the slashes might not mean division, but instead that they're alternatives. I noticed that there are THREE sets of numbers separated by commas. Which means that if these were points then they would be points in 3d space (not 2D like the triangles that have been floating around on this thread). So I found a tool to plot points in 3d space (http://hotmath.com/learning_activities/interactivities/3dplotter.swf) and assumed that the slashes meant that the coordinate could be either number. That process would give us 8 possible points in a box pattern.
I can't figure out how to insert it into my post so I included the screenshot as an attachment.
(NOTE: I plotted the points at 1:1000 scale to make them fit on the graph better, according to geometry this will not affect the shape at all.)
This seems significant. Is it a perfect box? I cant see from the photo. Even if it being a box isnt the actual point does it hint at some mathematical relationship?
yarden.saa
21-12-2013, 12:05
the complete sign by Yehuda Eitam:
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.94281%2C-81.311998&cbp=%2C32.62%2C%2C3%2C15.080002&layer=c&panoid=VNSRfLx4QNO3teEqfg3kxg&spn=0.18000000000000152%2C0.30000000000000676&output=classic&cbll=40.94281%2C-81.311998
the complete sign by Yehuda Eitam:
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.94281%2C-81.311998&cbp=%2C32.62%2C%2C3%2C15.080002&layer=c&panoid=VNSRfLx4QNO3teEqfg3kxg&spn=0.18000000000000152%2C0.30000000000000676&output=classic&cbll=40.94281%2C-81.311998
Ironic that it's only effective from Jan. 1st to May 1st, spanning just barely the entire build and official competition season.
But phew, at least we'll be able to tack on an extra 30 pounds for IRI! ;) :D
theCADguy
21-12-2013, 12:11
the complete sign by Yehuda Eitam:
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.94281%2C-81.311998&cbp=%2C32.62%2C%2C3%2C15.080002&layer=c&panoid=VNSRfLx4QNO3teEqfg3kxg&spn=0.18000000000000152%2C0.30000000000000676&output=classic&cbll=40.94281%2C-81.311998
The fact that the sign says 'effective Jan 1 to May 1' is interesting. This is goes from just before kickoff (Jan 4), until right after world champs(April 26).
billbo911
21-12-2013, 12:13
the complete sign by Yehuda Eitam:
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.94281%2C-81.311998&cbp=%2C32.62%2C%2C3%2C15.080002&layer=c&panoid=VNSRfLx4QNO3teEqfg3kxg&spn=0.18000000000000152%2C0.30000000000000676&output=classic&cbll=40.94281%2C-81.311998
"WEIGHT LIMITS REDUCED 25% EFFECTIVE JAN. 1 to MAY 1"
Sounds very much like an FRC season.
Orion.DeYoe
21-12-2013, 12:16
This seems significant. Is it a perfect box? I cant see from the photo. Even if it being a box isnt the actual point does it hint at some mathematical relationship?
The dimensions of the box (at full scale) are 8177 (in the X axis), 59163 (in the Y axis), and 46520 (in the Z axis). Essentially it's nearly square on the YZ plane and very thin in the x direction. It's not a perfect cube or square in any direction.
http://i.imgflip.com/5ly21.jpg
This image Pretty much sums up GDC right now :P
RoundTabler
21-12-2013, 12:31
Going on the idea that those numbers signify threads on forums, what if they represent social network accounts (facebook, twitter, g+, etc.)? Or has anyone tried putting those numbers in for youtube videos?
The dimensions of the box (at full scale) are 8177 (in the X axis), 59163 (in the Y axis), and 46520 (in the Z axis). Essentially it's nearly square on the YZ plane and very thin in the x direction. It's not a perfect cube or square in any direction.
If those are thousands of an inch, its about 4'11" x 3'10.5" and 8" deep.
Big goal?
Also, 1963 is very prominent as a "year"... the year the strike zone in baseball was expanded.
BobRaygen
21-12-2013, 12:43
The dimensions of the box (at full scale) are 8177 (in the X axis), 59163 (in the Y axis), and 46520 (in the Z axis). Essentially it's nearly square on the YZ plane and very thin in the x direction. It's not a perfect cube or square in any direction.
Might be new dimension constraints to go along with the reduces weight
glennword
21-12-2013, 12:43
the complete sign by Yehuda Eitam:
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.94281%2C-81.311998&cbp=%2C32.62%2C%2C3%2C15.080002&layer=c&panoid=VNSRfLx4QNO3teEqfg3kxg&spn=0.18000000000000152%2C0.30000000000000676&output=classic&cbll=40.94281%2C-81.311998
Better picture,
Yarden, although the signs match in both of these pictures, the backgrounds are different. Which one actually corresponds to the coordinate search? also, please explain the entire process you went through to find these; I'm trying to replicate your results and cant quite seem to manage it. Thanks
yarden.saa
21-12-2013, 12:45
Yarden, although the signs match in both of these pictures, the backgrounds are different. Which one actually corresponds to the coordinate search? also, please explain the entire process you went through to find these; I'm trying to replicate your results and cant quite seem to manage it. Thanks
go to http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=123496
RoundTabler
21-12-2013, 12:54
-. .. ... .. -.-. -. -..-. ---... becomes nisinc which is an anagram for insinc, which gives lots of google results. Just throwing this out there.
go to http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=123496
No, don't. 1 (or the current 4...) thread is enough.
Jets10123
21-12-2013, 13:02
The zip codes are Rockford IL, Zossen Germany, and Colchester IL where there was a place in England where it was named after. All three have had a civil war to be related to it and in 1963 that was the year MLK have his I give a dream speech about anti slavery. Also if you put 8234 on the map three cities come up. One in Lexumburg, Austria, and Switzerland which were all neutral countries in WWII as well as Zossens colors being blue white and green. And green has been a popular topic on chief Delphi. Therefore I believe in a war based game. Also as some one pointed out before 42 was Jackie Robinsons number, as he broke the color barrier for baseball, which is another hint at a war game.
Here's what I think so far. Hints don't necessarily allude to the game itself, and as such while I agree baseball could be a major part of the hint, I don't think it's about the game theme. Rather, it could be about the way baseball is played, which simply put is teams taking turns as they try to score.
At first I though this sounded somewhat hard to manage, but looking back this is something that was alrady used by FIRST in the game Aim High.
Of course I could be completely wrong, it's just my thoughts on it so far.
JakeC1020
21-12-2013, 13:11
I have heard a lot of people talking about baseball, football and hockey, as well as a theme of seeing threes this year. Could it be that there will be multiple types of game objects this year?
Normtheman
21-12-2013, 13:15
If those are thousands of an inch, its about 4'11" x 3'10.5" and 8" deep.
Big goal?
Also, 1963 is very prominent as a "year"... the year the strike zone in baseball was expanded.
3'10.5" would be about the top of the old strike box on a player. When MLB changed the strike box to go up to the shoulders it would be about 4'11". Also this is right heights for a 5'11" man, Jackie Robinson was 5'11".
ljmotley
21-12-2013, 13:27
We think that it may be recycling water bottles. You may have to sort items between trash and recycling. Triangles have appeared a lot, and the symbol for recycling is the triangle. The water bottles were arranged in a triangle. The coordinates from the original numbers led us to Rockford, IL and Colchester, IL, which have metal recycling facilities. Blue and green have appeared often, which are the colors for recycling.
Team 4931
Tottanka
21-12-2013, 13:34
I think a reliable way to find if the intention of the game hint is this or the other, a good way would be to "backtrack".
Meaning, if you are confident enough that you solved it - show us how the GDC decided on it to be the hint.
Example: The weight limit change theory, show us how the GDC wanted to tell us that the limit has been reduced, and thus how they found that sign and its coordinates.
If someone could both give a solid theory for a hint, and provide a backtrack of that kind- i think it would be pretty solid for a solution.
Jonathan Lister
21-12-2013, 13:38
-. .. ... .. -.-. -. -..-. ---... becomes nisinc which is an anagram for insinc, which gives lots of google results. Just throwing this out there.
This must mean the robots have to perform in a boy band (insinc = 'N Sync).
Of course, this has to be done underwater.
theCADguy
21-12-2013, 13:39
The zip codes are Rockford IL, Zossen Germany, and Colchester IL where there was a place in England where it was named after. All three have had a civil war to be related to it and in 1963 that was the year MLK have his I give a dream speech about anti slavery. Also if you put 8234 on the map three cities come up. One in Lexumburg, Austria, and Switzerland which were all neutral countries in WWII as well as Zossens colors being blue white and green. And green has been a popular topic on chief Delphi. Therefore I believe in a war based game. Also as some one pointed out before 42 was Jackie Robinsons number, as he broke the color barrier for baseball, which is another hint at a war game.
I highly doubt that FIRST will ever have a game involving war or fighting. A game like this goes against the ideals of FIRST, especially Gracious Professionalism.
Does anybody know where that picture of Dean, Woodie, and the other man came from?
Also, is there any chance someone could post a picture of a completed, unmodified KOP chassis? I'd like to see what GDC might have had to change based off of what it wouldn't have worked well with. Thanks
Christopher149
21-12-2013, 13:54
Does anybody know where that picture of Dean, Woodie, and the other man came from?
The FRC blog (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/Photo-From-Kickoff-Filming)
The FRC blog (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/Photo-From-Kickoff-Filming)
Sweet, thanks!
Also, is there any chance someone could post a picture of a completed, unmodified KOP chassis? I'd like to see what GDC might have had to change based off of what it wouldn't have worked well with. Thanks
I'll be sure to post one up in about two weeks...
I'll be sure to post one up in about two weeks...
I meant last year's chassis. Sorry bout that. I'm sure it would be quite hard to acquire a new one, haha
You can just go here (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2239.htm)to take a look at last years chassis.
You can just go here (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2239.htm)to take a look at last years chassis.
Thanks
RobotDoktor
21-12-2013, 14:50
Also, is there any chance someone could post a picture of a completed, unmodified KOP chassis? I'd like to see what GDC might have had to change based off of what it wouldn't have worked well with. Thanks
They have been careful not to reveal very much about the new KOP chassis, but they have said that the frame will be sheet metal based, which should be similar to this (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/structure/2013-drive-in-a-day.html).
Anthony4004
21-12-2013, 14:52
The spacecraft was headed towards Mars...
The game may have something to do with Mars or space exploration in general.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_1963
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_2MV-4_No.1
Good things Im on the MARS Rovers :D
Joseph1825
21-12-2013, 15:35
I am currently working on translating the numbers into binary, then reading it as morse code, then applying a ceaser shift cypher at the end. I will post if I find anything useful.
VioletElizabeth
21-12-2013, 16:01
I went binary to morse on the first two and got jock and ip. Haven't tried swapping 0s and 1s or done the other 4. It kinda goes exponential, so it'll take a bit.
electroken
21-12-2013, 16:21
Which means that the only two digits remaining are...
http://i.imgur.com/xvePEkL.jpg
I rest my case.
It's the only number retired throughout major league baseball. The last guy to wear it (Mariano Rivera) just retired a few months ago. We're playin' baseball!
Every real Wiffle ball ever made came from right here in Shelton, CT. Time for a stake out the factory...
-. .. ... .. -.-. -. -..-. ---... becomes nisinc which is an anagram for insinc, which gives lots of google results. Just throwing this out there.
This must mean the robots have to perform in a boy band (insinc = 'N Sync).
Of course, this has to be done underwater.
*NSYNC you say?
https://31.media.tumblr.com/bb74e3be81ae46d217b98eaca119d983/tumblr_ms4a5bP8Xd1qh5srwo1_500.gif
Bye Bye Bye -- no more robots. FIRST is over. Sorry kiddos, we're done.
karomata
21-12-2013, 16:29
I think this relates instead to Phil Fish, a French Canadian Indie Game Developer, most famous for his development of the game FEZ. Stick with me here, it gets a bit complicated.
So when adding the values for each independent group of numbers, you get 17/12, 16/19, 19/20. If you convert those to a 1 to 1 number/letter code (A=1, B=2, C=3...), you get Q/L, P/S, S/T. You may notice that there are 2 consecutive S's, however, the most common double letter in many languages is L. So if the S's covert to L's, this is a 7 number variance shift (A=-7=T, B=-6=U, Q=10, R=11). This changes the original string of letters into J/E, I/L, L/M. Assuming the individual pairs of letters are words themselves, translated from French to English this means: I, He (or It), and the last pair are roman numerals for 950. When putting together the individual words, you get IHE950. An IHE is a New Zealand Piper, a type of fish. No, this does not mean it is a water game. From the NZ Piper, we jumped to Phil Fish, a French Canadian Videogame Developer, and that makes sense because the original statement was in french, and Fish=Fish. That is how we know that this statement leads up to Phil Fish. Phil Fish developed a game called FEZ, best known for its mix of a 2D platform and 3D platform. This is shown in the game as rotation and viewing different sides of a cubic object. Here is a video of this game being played: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH2SysTLCPc
How does this apply to a game? We could have game objects that need to face different directions for additional scoring? Drivers changing perspectives? This has a lot of potential and I also think this is within a reasonable balance of over analysis and not thinking deep enough.
I think this relates instead to Phil Fish, a French Canadian Indie Game Developer, most famous for his development of the game FEZ. Stick with me here, it gets a bit complicated.
So when adding the values for each independent group of numbers, you get 17/12, 16/19, 19/20. If you convert those to a 1 to 1 number/letter code (A=1, B=2, C=3...), you get Q/L, P/S, S/T. You may notice that there are 2 consecutive S's, however, the most common double letter in many languages is L. So if the S's covert to L's, this is a 7 number variance shift (A=-7=T, B=-6=U, Q=10, R=11). This changes the original string of letters into J/E, I/L, L/M. Assuming the individual pairs of letters are words themselves, translated from French to English this means: I, He (or It), and the last pair are roman numerals for 950. When putting together the individual words, you get IHE950. An IHE is a New Zealand Piper, a type of fish. No, this does not mean it is a water game. From the NZ Piper, we jumped to Phil Fish, a French Canadian Videogame Developer, and that makes sense because the original statement was in french, and Fish=Fish. That is how we know that this statement leads up to Phil Fish. Phil Fish developed a game called FEZ, best known for its mix of a 2D platform and 3D platform. This is shown in the game as rotation and viewing different sides of a cubic object. Here is a video of this game being played: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH2SysTLCPc
How does this apply to a game? We could have game objects that need to face different directions for additional scoring? Drivers changing perspectives? This has a lot of potential and I also think this is within a reasonable balance of over analysis and not thinking deep enough.
Dude...
Sean Raia
21-12-2013, 16:48
I think this relates instead to Phil Fish, a French Canadian Indie Game Developer, most famous for his development of the game FEZ. Stick with me here, it gets a bit complicated.
So when adding the values for each independent group of numbers, you get 17/12, 16/19, 19/20. If you convert those to a 1 to 1 number/letter code (A=1, B=2, C=3...), you get Q/L, P/S, S/T. You may notice that there are 2 consecutive S's, however, the most common double letter in many languages is L. So if the S's covert to L's, this is a 7 number variance shift (A=-7=T, B=-6=U, Q=10, R=11). This changes the original string of letters into J/E, I/L, L/M. Assuming the individual pairs of letters are words themselves, translated from French to English this means: I, He (or It), and the last pair are roman numerals for 950. When putting together the individual words, you get IHE950. An IHE is a New Zealand Piper, a type of fish. No, this does not mean it is a water game. From the NZ Piper, we jumped to Phil Fish, a French Canadian Videogame Developer, and that makes sense because the original statement was in french, and Fish=Fish. That is how we know that this statement leads up to Phil Fish. Phil Fish developed a game called FEZ, best known for its mix of a 2D platform and 3D platform. This is shown in the game as rotation and viewing different sides of a cubic object. Here is a video of this game being played: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH2SysTLCPc
How does this apply to a game? We could have game objects that need to face different directions for additional scoring? Drivers changing perspectives? This has a lot of potential and I also think this is within a reasonable balance of over analysis and not thinking deep enough.
I personally think the 7 number variance shift was a bit much. Also from there it makes sense, except that Phil is an obscure/very "new" person even among relatively nerdy folks. I love where your heads at though and I think that attacking the numbers and looking for a translation is where this one needs to go.
Flytrevor
21-12-2013, 16:50
I think this relates instead to Phil Fish, a French Canadian Indie Game Developer, most famous for his development of the game FEZ. Stick with me here, it gets a bit complicated.
So when adding the values for each independent group of numbers, you get 17/12, 16/19, 19/20. If you convert those to a 1 to 1 number/letter code (A=1, B=2, C=3...), you get Q/L, P/S, S/T. You may notice that there are 2 consecutive S's, however, the most common double letter in many languages is L. So if the S's covert to L's, this is a 7 number variance shift (A=-7=T, B=-6=U, Q=10, R=11). This changes the original string of letters into J/E, I/L, L/M. Assuming the individual pairs of letters are words themselves, translated from French to English this means: I, He (or It), and the last pair are roman numerals for 950. When putting together the individual words, you get IHE950. An IHE is a New Zealand Piper, a type of fish. No, this does not mean it is a water game. From the NZ Piper, we jumped to Phil Fish, a French Canadian Videogame Developer, and that makes sense because the original statement was in french, and Fish=Fish. That is how we know that this statement leads up to Phil Fish. Phil Fish developed a game called FEZ, best known for its mix of a 2D platform and 3D platform. This is shown in the game as rotation and viewing different sides of a cubic object. Here is a video of this game being played: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH2SysTLCPc
How does this apply to a game? We could have game objects that need to face different directions for additional scoring? Drivers changing perspectives? This has a lot of potential and I also think this is within a reasonable balance of over analysis and not thinking deep enough.
where does the 950 come in to play? and what do you mean Fish=Fish in french Fish is poisson? otherwise very good and in depth point!
Sean Raia
21-12-2013, 17:21
Well I tried to sketch the shape the bottles make, and it's close but it COULD just be a coincidence. After that, I rotated the image so that the shape matched the graph that somebody posted earlier (page 5?) Then I looked at the image for what seemed to be revealed by the rotation/mirroring and I found something interesting. What picture is this back there and are those two 3's?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31973107/Kickoff-Filming.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31973107/2.png
RobotDoktor
21-12-2013, 17:25
Well I tried to sketch the shape the bottles make, and it's close but it COULD just be a coincidence. After that, I rotated the image so that the shape matched the graph that somebody posted earlier (page 5?) Then I looked at the image for what seemed to be revealed by the rotation/mirroring and I found something interesting. What picture is this and are those two 3's?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31973107/Kickoff-Filming.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31973107/2.png
Very interesting. I thought the all the threes were a coincidence (especially since there were many threes found in last years hint), but one of those threes looks an awful lot like it was edited in, as it appears to overlap the green screen which should be in front of it.
mhos1997
21-12-2013, 17:31
Very interesting. I thought the all the threes were a coincidence (especially since there were many threes found in last years hint), but one of those threes looks an awful lot like it was edited in, as it appears to overlap the green screen which should be in front of it.
The top one like either like a 4 or a triangle. Triangle seems more plausible, therefore leading to 3 of something.
Sean Raia
21-12-2013, 17:38
That looks like a ledge of some sort... and I agree that the top number appears to be 4. It wasn't edited in though, that bleeding in is just a result of modern photography.
RobotDoktor
21-12-2013, 17:51
Actually, looking at the original it is more likely to be a two with the bottom cut off.
Orion.DeYoe
21-12-2013, 18:00
Has anyone noticed the trends in the numbers? The numerator of each term increases as you go left to right (8234<61126<62326). The denominators are the same way (57<1963<15806) except that they increase at a greater rate compared to the numerators. This causes the quotient of the fractions to increase left to right as well (~144.46<~31.14<~3.94). They're not linear, but I wonder if this has some significance.
Team3844
21-12-2013, 18:05
Could still be a water game if you change the water's state. Hockey on Ice reusing the Lunacy Floor. It would be cool if they also would perforate the floor like a table hokey game for compressed air up flow so the puck would slide as if it where on ice.
Team3266Spencer
21-12-2013, 18:15
Guys!
Here's the shitz:
Here are the points mapped in a Cartesian coordinate system: http://i.imgur.com/0CK1OGx.png
Here's the photo from the kickoff filming blog post:
http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2014/Kickoff-Filming.jpg
Take a look at the shape of the water bottles on the floor! Odd, euh?
3 bottles, 3 people. 2 green screens, 2 red lights, 2 blue lights = 3 alliances of 2 teams each!
Now what's more?
Woodie and Don Bossi are sitting whilst Dean is standing. Two Bottles are on the floor and one is lifted. Can it mean anything?!
There is a third green screen on the other side though :/
Steven Donow
21-12-2013, 18:15
That looks like a ledge of some sort... and I agree that the top number appears to be 4. It wasn't edited in though, that bleeding in is just a result of modern photography.
If kickoff wasn't filmed at FIRST HQ and was filmed at an actual production studio with soundstages, that's probably a sign showing that they were currently on soundstage/greenscreen/production area/whatever #3.
RoundTabler
21-12-2013, 18:23
Having been to FIRST HQ, I can tell you I don't remember any floors like that (I could be wrong however). :/
That said, I really like the idea that these numbers mean something in RGB. :o
MooreteP
21-12-2013, 18:28
I think this relates instead to Phil Fish, a French Canadian Indie Game Developer, most famous for his development of the game FEZ. Stick with me here, it gets a bit complicated.
........
How does this apply to a game? We could have game objects that need to face different directions for additional scoring? Drivers changing perspectives? This has a lot of potential and I also think this is within a reasonable balance of over analysis and not thinking deep enough.
What I like about these game hints is that we get creative analyses like this.
I think there is something fractal in FIRST where we have to keep reminding ourselves that "it's not about the Robot."
It's not about what the game will be, but about us exercising our brains.
Kind of like going to the gym. It serves no direct purpose but is good way to spend ones time and imparts long term benefit.
Orientational manipulation is a challenge. Maybe a cube with three different colors symmetric on opposing faces is the nature of the "three" in these clues.
Almost done wrapping presents.
Just a though, whatever the solution is, it probably doesnt involve the "/" meaning division because, come on, thats too easy.
Jay O'Donnell
21-12-2013, 18:37
Just a though, whatever the solution is, it probably doesnt involve the "/" meaning division because, come on, thats too easy.
So you're saying we should over analyze and ignore the obvious answers? Remember when we did that for the Moonfish in 2009?
If kickoff wasn't filmed at FIRST HQ and was filmed at an actual production studio with soundstages, that's probably a sign showing that they were currently on soundstage/greenscreen/production area/whatever #3.
It's still interesting that the numbers matched up when the image was oriented to match the triangle. I had seen that in the background, and I couldn't make out what they were until I saw the image rotated and flipped.
Flytrevor
21-12-2013, 18:46
some people have said that they are postal codes, all of which are in Illinois, Illinois is home to the THIRD largest city in the USA... Coincidence, i think not!:ahh:
BobRaygen
21-12-2013, 18:58
According to some earlier posts the color green might mean recycling, possibly of older game ideas. And that someone else found a connection between the numbers and asteroids(in space, not the game), possibly referencing Lunacy. Combine that with the secret (the general ones they told us, but nothing specific) changes they are doing with the kit base, and their use of the phrase "attach superstructure" might mean they are using a similar idea to Lunacy in that robots will need to attach to something. Possibly something which rests on top of the robot or the robot drags along. Might also explain the possible weight reduction and size constraints also brought up as possible clues.
they did mention the kit base could move at about 10.5 feet/second, which is fairly quick. Maybe it will be a racing game of sorts.
DampRobot
21-12-2013, 18:59
To sum up what's been said so far, no one has a freaking clue.
/thread
MooreteP
21-12-2013, 19:04
To sum up what's been said so far, no one has a freaking clue.
/thread
No, we have one, maybe two clues.
Beyond that, lots of speculation, which led to the Great Depression of 10/29/1929, which added up equals 33.
Hah!
3 clues.
:)
Hey everyone, I have a few interesting items of note:
Pete Rose retired with the most career baseball hits of all time.
His rookie debut was in the year 1963
61126/1963 has a remainder of 273. Pete Rose's batting average in his rookie season was 0.273
As for the number 31 (61125/1963 rounded down), when Pete Rose was age 31, it was the year 1972. According to wikipedia, this was the ONLY year between 1967 and 1982 that Pete was NOT an All-Star.
Also, the number 1972 is the record for most winning games in a career. the record is held by no other but -- Pete Rose!
This is SO going to be a baseball game!
gabrielau23
21-12-2013, 19:11
I think it could be baseball...
I think it could be baseball...
This is SO going to be a baseball game!
People are trying too hard to make this game hint into a baseball game hint...
Look at it for what it is. Not what it could be, or what you want it to be.
cadandcookies
21-12-2013, 19:14
To sum up what's been said so far, no one has a freaking clue.
/thread
Statistically, someone has already guessed a large part of the game already. We just have no idea who.
Jay O'Donnell
21-12-2013, 19:15
Statistically, someone has already guessed a large part of the game already. We just have no idea who.
What statistics are these? Is there a statistic for game hint guesses?
cadandcookies
21-12-2013, 19:16
Actually yes. Give me a moment to compile a list of the (correct) guesses that people have made in game hint threads.
Regardless that stat helps no one but the person who guessed it.
Consider for a minute the solutions to last year's clues -- who could without a doubt describe the game as it was, after the game was released, based on the clues provided and solved beforehand?? That whole "A ROSE KISSED..." poem, what did this have anything with pyramids and frisbees over general speculation or vague correlations?
nwilrule
21-12-2013, 19:24
Pete Rose's first game was April 8, 1963. Matching up with the post time of the game clue at 4:08.
Consider for a minute the solutions to last year's clues -- who could without a doubt describe the game as it was, after the game was released, based on the clues provided and solved beforehand?? That whole "A ROSE KISSED..." poem, what did this have anything with pyramids and frisbees over general speculation or vague correlations?
Well, that poem wasn't the game hint last year. It was numbers, that people then converted to letters, thinking that was the direction to go with the hint. They made it into something they wanted it to be, not what it really was:
31 88274153, 622341415326
412383975388 9788533197
31 262383835388, 332341415326
93276426238397 995323979397
I'm looking through last year's game hint thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110159) now, and I remember towards the end someone did figure out pyramids...
EDIT: Here we are (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1204752&postcount=412), people connected the poem to the singer Seal, and then to the 'Great Seal of the United States' featuring...a pyramid =P. That was only the first connection. Someone later used an online anagram solver to show that there was an even deeper hidden meaning, and then a binary converter to form a pyramid-like shape.
But, I digress. Back to 2014's hint!
Christopher149
21-12-2013, 19:34
Well, that poem wasn't the game hint last year. It was numbers, that people then converted to letters, thinking that was the direction to go with the hint. They made it into something they wanted it to be, not what it really was:
I'm looking through last year's game hint thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110159) now, and I remember towards the end someone did figure out pyramids...
Once you interpreted the number across digit pairs in pi, the poem became obvious (and was found by page 5 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110159&page=5))
Pete Rose seems interesting, since last year's poem said "A Rose Kissed"
Pete Rose seems interesting, since last year's poem said "A Rose Kissed"
How about we focus on THIS YEAR'S hint...and not go making hints out of things that they are not.
...and not go making hints out of things that they are not.
Ha
nwilrule
21-12-2013, 19:43
In the 1963 World Series the LA dodgers played the NY Yankees. The dodgers had a season record of .611 matching with the second set of numbers. They also had Derrel Griffith who was #26 and started on Sep. 26 1963. 1963 was. The 50 anniversary of the Yankees was 1963. The 50 year anniversary of zip codes and Pete rose is 2013.
Did anyone notice the reference to a water game in the FTC kickoff video? 1:10-1:20 at http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/ftc/game. Maybe a water minibot that must race up a small incline. Hence, the one water bottle on the stage.
cadandcookies
21-12-2013, 19:54
Regardless that stat helps no one but the person who guessed it.
Consider for a minute the solutions to last year's clues -- who could without a doubt describe the game as it was, after the game was released, based on the clues provided and solved beforehand?? That whole "A ROSE KISSED..." poem, what did this have anything with pyramids and frisbees over general speculation or vague correlations?
I think you're reading too much into it. People never guess the whole game-- what would be the fun in that? They guess just enough that we can go back after kickoff and tie it all back together.
Here's a list going back to 2010 of game hints and correct (and important) guesses. If the fancy takes me, I might go back further later.
2013:
Smaller Robot, 3-color game pieces http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1203748&postcount=51
2012:
Guesses it's a small ball game http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=890335&postcount=40
Guesses there are multiple goals, and it's like Aim High http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1088087&postcount=19
2011:
Literally first post is guessing that all three shapes of the FIRST logo will be used in the game http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=990804&postcount=2
Post guessing that the game will involve climbing a pole http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=987055&postcount=4
2010:
Soccer ball, part is a ball return mechanism http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=890335&postcount=40
Enough with the water game jokes, this thread has majorly overdone it and taken the fun out of it.
Water game will not, can not happen with our current hardware (as if anyone here didn't know that). the electronics are obviously not compatible, 2.4 Ghz wifi doesn't work underwater, and the roboRio wont work either. Go join RoboSubhttp://www.auvsifoundation.org/foundation/competitions/robosub/
Now, a UAV aircraft competition, on the other hand... Air Game!
2013:
Smaller Robot, 3-color game pieces http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1203748&postcount=51
Okay, except that the smaller robot wasn't from the hint - It was from the KOP dimensions being smaller, as released by AndyMark.
2011:
Literally first post is guessing that all three shapes of the FIRST logo will be used in the game http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=990804&postcount=2
Post guessing that the game will involve climbing a pole http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=987055&postcount=4
Also, the Logo, and the song 'Locomotion' (by the singer in the pole photo) also let people easily guess the name of the game.
2010:
Soccer ball, part is a ball return mechanism http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=890335&postcount=40
Also, the first hint, an image of a middle gate, let people guess that there would be separate zones.
But...Back to 2014's hint!
8234/57, 61126/1963, 62326/15806
cadandcookies
21-12-2013, 19:59
Enough with the water game jokes, this thread has majorly overdone it and taken the fun out of it.
Please kindly get over it. The water jokes have been around since before you or I was involved in FIRST and they'll probably continue for a long time. At this point water game is as much a part of the FIRST culture as GP is.
Please kindly get over it. The water jokes have been around since before you or I was involved in FIRST and they'll probably continue for a long time. At this point water game is as much a part of the FIRST culture as GP is.
Unknown to most, there WAS an actual official FRC game in the past involving water...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rug_Rage
*cough*Back to the 2014 hint...*cough*
cadandcookies
21-12-2013, 20:03
/snip
If you look back, the examples were just to provide evidence that game hint discussion actually does tend to produce something relatively close to helpful, as it seems that everybody became terribly pessimistic about peoples' ability to guess parts of the game this year.
But I digress, as you've said, time to get back to the 2014 hint.
raptaconehs
21-12-2013, 20:14
I don't think anyone else has noticed this, but when the hint is plotted on a Cartesian coordinate plane it creates a triangle. When plotted in 3-d it shows a shape similar to a square. If someone manages to find a way to make it a circle it could be very possible that this years game could be something to do with 3 different shaped game pieces like Logomotion.
RoundTabler
21-12-2013, 20:17
When graphed in wolfram alpha it does form a circle...
Abhishek R
21-12-2013, 20:22
Pretty sure that the hint just gives people something to put their energy into while we *patiently* wait for January 4th.
In other words, the hint is supposed to be extremely obscure so that you can just see how close you may have gotten once the actual challenge comes out. I doubt anyone has ever gotten any real, even minuscule advantage.
When graphed in wolfram alpha it does form a circle...
More precisely a sphere.
mhos1997
21-12-2013, 20:28
Picture?
raptaconehs
21-12-2013, 20:31
When graphed in wolfram alpha it does form a circle...
Well I think that gives us a decent indication that it could be similar to Logomotion atleast with game pieces.
mechanical_robot
21-12-2013, 20:45
If you type in "61126/1963" into Google Maps it should show a map of course. Anyways many people are pointing out the obvious post office well what about the water tower that is near it? There is a water tower.
Water game anyone?
Maybe we have to climb a water tower this year hahahahah:rolleyes:
valeriemoore
21-12-2013, 20:48
Logomotion didn't have any spherical game pieces though. FIRST has been following a pattern for a while now where they go back and forth from a ball like object to an irregular object.
2013: Ultimate Ascent - Frisbee: Irregular
2012: Rebound Rumble - Basketball: Ball
2011: Logomotion - Tubes- Irregular
2010: Breakaway - Soccer Ball: Ball
2009: Lunacy - The open air cells: Irregular
2008: FIRST Overdrive: Trackballs: Ball
2007: Rack 'n Roll: Tubes: Irregular
2006: Aim High: Balls: Ball
2005: Triple Play: Triangles: Irregular
It would make sense for the game piece to be a ball this year. I think that the graphing is brilliant, and that part of the clue is that it is a spherical game piece, but that each fraction is also a game hint.
Well I think that gives us a decent indication that it could be similar to Logomotion atleast with game pieces.
Orion.DeYoe
21-12-2013, 20:56
Logomotion didn't have any spherical game pieces though. FIRST has been following a pattern for a while now where they go back and forth from a ball like object to an irregular object.
2013: Ultimate Ascent - Frisbee: Irregular
2012: Rebound Rumble - Basketball: Ball
2011: Logomotion - Tubes- Irregular
2010: Breakaway - Soccer Ball: Ball
2009: Lunacy - The open air cells: Irregular
2008: FIRST Overdrive: Trackballs: Ball
2007: Rack 'n Roll: Tubes: Irregular
2006: Aim High: Balls: Ball
2005: Triple Play: Triangles: Irregular
It would make sense for the game piece to be a ball this year. I think that the graphing is brilliant, and that part of the clue is that it is a spherical game piece, but that each fraction is also a game hint.
What if the numbers somehow relate to the different possible patterns for games (ball/no-ball, sport/no-sport, etc.)?
Willem Bohrer
21-12-2013, 20:58
15625
When you put the three destinations stated thus far into google maps you form a triangle.
Logomotion didn't have any spherical game pieces though. FIRST has been following a pattern for a while now where they go back and forth from a ball like object to an irregular object.
2013: Ultimate Ascent - Frisbee: Irregular
2012: Rebound Rumble - Basketball: Ball
2011: Logomotion - Tubes- Irregular
2010: Breakaway - Soccer Ball: Ball
2009: Lunacy - The open air cells: Irregular
2008: FIRST Overdrive: Trackballs: Ball
2007: Rack 'n Roll: Tubes: Irregular
2006: Aim High: Balls: Ball
2005: Triple Play: Triangles: Irregular
It would make sense for the game piece to be a ball this year. I think that the graphing is brilliant, and that part of the clue is that it is a spherical game piece, but that each fraction is also a game hint.
I would be very careful making up 'patterns.' Many thought that there was also a 'sports game pattern' too:
2006: Aim High - Mesoamerican ballgame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_ballgame)
2007: Rack 'n Roll - Abstract
2008: FIRST Overdrive - NASCAR
2009: Lunacy - Abstract
2010: Breakaway - Soccer
2011: Logomotion - Abstract
2012: Rebound Rumble - Basketball
So 2013 was expected to be an abstract, non-sports game, but then they threw Ultimate Frisbee at us. :o Boom, pattern broken.
Also, I would call 2009 ball, not irregular in your 'pattern.' The game pieces were called 'Orbit Balls' after all!
Jay O'Donnell
21-12-2013, 20:59
Logomotion didn't have any spherical game pieces though. FIRST has been following a pattern for a while now where they go back and forth from a ball like object to an irregular object.
2013: Ultimate Ascent - Frisbee: Irregular
2012: Rebound Rumble - Basketball: Ball
2011: Logomotion - Tubes- Irregular
2010: Breakaway - Soccer Ball: Ball
2009: Lunacy - The open air cells: Irregular
2008: FIRST Overdrive: Trackballs: Ball
2007: Rack 'n Roll: Tubes: Irregular
2006: Aim High: Balls: Ball
2005: Triple Play: Triangles: Irregular
It would make sense for the game piece to be a ball this year. I think that the graphing is brilliant, and that part of the clue is that it is a spherical game piece, but that each fraction is also a game hint.
That pattern goes back farther than that. The ones I know for sure are that 2002 and 2004 had balls and 2003 did not, but I've read that the pattern extends into the 1990's.
brandon.cottrell
21-12-2013, 21:02
That pattern goes back farther than that. The ones I know for sure are that 2002 and 2004 had balls and 2003 did not, but I've read that the pattern extends into the 1990's.
2004 - FIRST Frenzy - Ball
2003 - Stack Attack - Box
2002 - Zone Zeal - Ball
2001 - Diabolical Dynamics - Ball
Sorry.
DampRobot
21-12-2013, 21:03
15625
When you put the three destinations stated thus far into google maps you form a triangle.
Just saying, any three noncolinear points will form a triangle...
Abhishek R
21-12-2013, 21:04
Just saying, any three noncolinear points will form a triangle...
Yeah, I was just about to say that. Still, important to note the number 3.
cadandcookies
21-12-2013, 21:08
Yeah, I was just about to say that. Still, important to note the number 3.
The number 3 is as useless as triangles are. I can also make 4's or 2's or 1's out of anything they throw at us.
Sean Raia
21-12-2013, 21:26
Regardless that stat helps no one but the person who guessed it.
Consider for a minute the solutions to last year's clues -- who could without a doubt describe the game as it was, after the game was released, based on the clues provided and solved beforehand?? That whole "A ROSE KISSED..." poem, what did this have anything with pyramids and frisbees over general speculation or vague correlations?
Dinner missed = plate/frisbee.
Holding weight= climbing the pyramid.
If youre here to discuss the relevance of game hints, youre in the wrong thread. If youre here to relate your favorite show or sport to the next frc game, youre in the wrong thread. The water game talk is common, but its been ridiculously overdone this year. Then again, I have no say over how you interpret the hint. Just keep it productive. Work off of others. This is how we get closer to answering these things.
Also I want to point out that in 2011 we were shown a picture of a LOCOMOTIVE well before the first game hint came out. Keep an eye on prior blog posts.
Kabir Manghnani
21-12-2013, 21:35
I added the numbers and found their geo-coordinates im getting Forest City, PA. gonna keep working on this..
mechanical_robot
21-12-2013, 21:37
15625
When you put the three destinations stated thus far into google maps you form a triangle.
Any three points will form a triangle. Just like any 5 points will form a pentagon and so on.
themccannman
21-12-2013, 21:44
Pretty sure that the hint just gives people something to put their energy into while we *patiently* wait for January 4th.
In other words, the hint is supposed to be extremely obscure so that you can just see how close you may have gotten once the actual challenge comes out. I doubt anyone has ever gotten any real, even minuscule advantage.
That's exactly what it is. Think about every game hint we've ever gotten, would knowing any of them in advance give you any advantage at all? Knowing that there's going to be a pyramid to climb, or a ball or tube game doesn't really give you an advantage at all until you know the specifics of the game rules.
theCADguy
21-12-2013, 21:51
Yeah, I was just about to say that. Still, important to note the number 3.
As for three, maybe each string of numbers hints to a different aspect of the game. For example, one pair of numbers seemingly corresponds to a sign about reducing weight limits. The other strings probably represent other aspects of the game such as scoring objects, field dimensions, etc.
I'm liking that the different ways of graphing the points form a triangle, then box, then sphere though.
That being said I'm still partial to the "weight limit" sign because, come on, that's pretty perfect and its not a common sign...
theCADguy
21-12-2013, 22:05
I'm liking that the different ways of graphing the points form a triangle, then box, then sphere though.
That being said I'm still partial to the "weight limit" sign because, come on, that's pretty perfect and its not a common sign...
Triangle, Square, and Sphere...
The game pieces may be inspired by the FIRST logo, just as they were in Logomotion.
katelyndrake
21-12-2013, 22:10
I started wondering if the date the clue was posted could have any connection. Since 1963 seems to be referring to the year I searched for December 20th, 1963 (also, the post is the 50th anniversary of this date). This came up as the day the Berlin wall opened for the first time allowing people to visit relatives on the other side.
This could be a completely irrevelant finding; however, I can't help but think of some kind of game element dividing the field/alliances allowing robots to pass through at certain spots. When I was looking through this thread I found this post which talks about transporting to Berlin. Could this possibly be some sort of coincidence as well?
15806 is Zossen Germany. Looking on the wikipedia page:
"Between 1901 and 1904, Zossen adopted the use of different high-speed vehicles, such as electric locomotives and trams, for transportation to and from Berlin-Marienfelde. These vehicles were powered by an alternating current of 15kV and used a variable frequency. The power was transmitted by three vertical overhead lines."
Overdrive?
Other than this I haven't found any other connections that haven't already been pointed out. Maybe someone else might have a thought on this?
pandamonium
21-12-2013, 22:19
The hint can be about any part of the game and since quite honestly I don't think we are in the right ball park yet I have been working out an idea that the hint has to do with scoring or ranking.
high scores big numbers would imply there is a multiplier element to scoring such in 2007.
perhaps the alliances matter as well as the position number and your score is divide by your opponent.
R1 8234 / B1 57, R2 61126 / B2 1963, R3 62326 / B3 15806
It would be hard for judges to score this unless there were specific game pieces or goals for each.
Other concept each alliance has two scoring objects lets say circles then during end game everyone scores triangles and your Qualifying Rank score is
your squares / over your oponents triangles...
Mitchell1714
21-12-2013, 22:21
As for three, maybe each string of numbers hints to a different aspect of the game. For example, one pair of numbers seemingly corresponds to a sign about reducing weight limits. The other strings probably represent other aspects of the game such as scoring objects, field dimensions, etc.
Autonomous /Teleoperated / End Game
This could be something.
cadandcookies
21-12-2013, 22:26
It might be worth mentioning because of the Dr. Who connections:
In the Dr. Who Christmas Special, The Runaway Bride, the case uses Segways to get to an ancient spider nest.
Just saying: Spider game.
(yes I took this game hint as an excuse to watch a marathon of Dr. Who)
A little late to the party, but I figured it was about time for another reorganization (been going through this thread and getting a little lost along the way):
What I believe was the latest summary was from post 279 on page 19 by Thunder910 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1315548&postcount=279); here's an abridged recap of that:
(1) Using the numbers as zip codes, they point to cities with a connection to baseball
(2) Using the numbers as zip codes, they point to cities that have passed the Olympic torch (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1315509&postcount=262)
(3) Andy Baker uses a baseball bat in a video for Robot in Three Days
(4) In the KoP apology letter, they use the baseball analogy "Our apologies for the two strikes this weekend, we promise our next swing will be a home run."
(5) Hex, statistics, ASCII and Morse have not come up with anything consistently intelligible
(6) The first two numbers' simplified, irrational forms are the hex codes of green and blue, respectively (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1315179&postcount=88)
(7) Karomata created a theory revolving around Phil Fish (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1315803&postcount=361)
(8) When plugged into Google Earth (or Maps?), there are three images (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1315580&postcount=296) that show a shopping center sign including Security First, a map including First Baptist Church, and a sign saying "Weight Limit Reduced 25% Effective Jan. 1st to May 1st."
(9) The game piece pattern (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1315930&postcount=410) for this year would indicate a ball-based game
(10) The game type pattern (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1315934&postcount=413), which was already broken by Ultimate, should have continued to give a non-abstract game, but technically makes us overdue for one
Now it's time to number the (more concrete) game theories!
(1) Baseball
(2) Hockey
(3) Something more abstract
Football and a Logomotion like game have also been mentioned, but they have had less traction than the other theories so far. Granted, that doesn't discount them at all.
From reading a lot of these posts and my own (very brief) experiences, I believe that FIRST games, now especially, will not only seek to provide a good, fun challenge but also make FIRST and STEM more accessible to more people.
To be frank, racing games, stacking games, puzzle-like games and even just varied scoring methods and multipliers makes games harder for non-FIRST people to sit down and watch FIRST events (so does a non-working automatic scoring system, but that's a bit less controllable).
Rebound Rumble was a hit because of how straightforward the primary scoring was, and Ultimate Ascent followed that trend. That is why, I believe, part (10) about the game type trend broke; it's because they realized that creating non-abstract games with visually logical scoring can fulfill their goals better.
In addition to the game type, I think that it is probably more logical to follow the non-game hint hints, such as the video and letter references, than to be suspicious of them. Since they are unified, and previous non-game hint hints such as a KoP specification change (2013) indicating smaller robots were pretty straightforward as well, it would make sense.
Opinions in general: part (9) indicates we're due for a ball game, fulfilled by the baseball game supported by (1), (3) and (4); (1) and (8) also support each other due to their connection with maps, and (8) does contain several references to FIRST. Security First = Safety First, but the church is still mysterious. (8) also indicates much lighter robots, at a 90lb. cap.
General notes: / can stand for division, a space in Morse, or an or symbol. Commas separate lists, pauses in speech, coordinate systems, and the beginning and end of sets. Mapping them out as three Cartesian points is guaranteed to create a triangle; mapping them as a 8 3D points (/ as an or) is guaranteed to create a rectangular prism (as long as the options are different). Apparently, mapping it in Wolfram Alpha gives a sphere.
Keep in mind that, as a poster whose post I've lost said before me, the GDC must have backwards designed this hint, providing a barrier to (8); how would they have gotten those numbers to pinpoint those locations?
And finally, remember that this is a source of mostly entertainment and not competition. Even if we pulled out the right game, the only real benefit is being able to laugh about it afterwards, so let's have fun with this!
P.S. I didn't discuss the photo of Dean, Woodie and Don (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1315238&postcount=142), sorry! I sort of went with the whole "There Are No Game Hints In This Photo" warning. To be frank, there's too much symbolism to pull from photos that don't have overt messages (they're taking a photo, there's a green screen, they have chairs etc.) to get much concrete stuff anyways.
With all the triangle talk I decided to try searching pyramid with each number. One of the results was for a company called Pyramid Plastics in Rockford ,IL. I am still trying to make more connections though.
So I tried to edit my post, but my internet is currently too bad to do that it seems.
Things I forgot: I did believe that the 16:08 timestamp could have something to do with a hex to oct conversion, but that got me nowhere. There have been attempts to perform simple correlation translations (e.g. A=1, B=2...), as well as varied Morse translations, and then ASCII translations, etc. (e.g. I tried Hex/Oct to Dec/Dec then to ASCII and got this unintelligible "!!STX[Start Text]/G, 'LACK[Acknowledge]/VT[Vertical Tab]', (SYN[Synchronous idle]SO[Shift Out]/DC1[Device Control 1]EOT[End Of Transmission]").
czielinski
21-12-2013, 22:41
I feel like we may be overthinking it. I know this is FIRST but it could be much simpler than we're making it. But I do believe that the game will be much more simplistic and the coincidence with the sign is very strange as well
bbradf44
21-12-2013, 22:45
Has anyone tried looking at the legs of the triangle? Either on a chart or as points on a map? Could bring something, probably nothing, but its something else to look at
rabridges
21-12-2013, 22:52
Good evening Team
Here is what I have done to try and crack the code of the next season’s game hint.
Using the order of operations:
8+2+3+4/5+7=20.8
6+1+1+2+6/1+9+6+3=34
6+2+3+2+6/1+5+8+0+6=38
Then I divided each answer by 8:
20.8/8=2.6
34/8=4.25
38/8=4.75
Then I plotted the points in different arrangements Here:
http://hotmath.com/learning_activities/interactivities/3dplotter.swf
x=2.6 y= 4.25 z=4.75
x=4.25 y=4.75 z=2.6
x=4.75 y=2.6 z=4.25
The attached image is what I got.
roboryan
21-12-2013, 22:53
just a possible option on the church is that when you go to church accepting the lord is known as saving or being saved maybe you will have to save your fellow robots on the field because they could be disabled by the other alliance for one reason or another
(surprised none else thought of that yet or atleast i saw)
this could be refered to as a tackle maybe if it is a football game
and aslo the security place could be a safety as in football position
cadandcookies
21-12-2013, 22:54
Yes everyone, we get it, if you interpret the numbers in any way that gives you three points, you get a triangle, which is literally the most boring thing that three points can define.
OzzyArmas
21-12-2013, 22:55
I still think a slippery baseball game with several scoring zones (field/out-field sort of thing). A reduction on weight limit and In reference to the picture of Dean, Woodie and Don I believe there is going to be some sort of lifting/balancing factor. Since games often borrow from each other and FTC this year has balancing and lifting while vex has a bump, a bridge and lifting.
mGt31097
21-12-2013, 23:02
Three numbers.
Three molecules in water.
Water Game.
Anthony4004
21-12-2013, 23:03
You guys are going to hate me, but i felt it was necessary to post. In the December 10th post (http://www3.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-District-Award-Allocations-and-Kickoff-Taping) Frank quotes about the field, saying "This was the first time we had a chance to take a look at a fully assembled 2014 season field in person rather than on a display screen or on paper. I thought it looked great. Especially impressive was the...but, I guess I shouldn’t say any more." So from this, I wanted to post the picture they showed us in September. If you look at the left screen, that just so happens to be block from our view, you can see what appears to be a CAD rendering of possibly the 2014 field. Here ya go:
http://www3.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2013/Frank_at_IT.jpg
cadandcookies
21-12-2013, 23:09
I'd be willing to believe it's a game element... maybe some sort of collection of boxes?
What if, in a twist move, we're playing a scaled up version of FTC Block Party?
Anthony4004
21-12-2013, 23:11
I'd be willing to believe it's a game element... maybe some sort of collection of boxes?
What if, in a twist move, we're playing a scaled up version of FTC Block Party?
Thats what came to mind first for me.
Calvin Hartley
21-12-2013, 23:11
What if it's just some sort of 3D version of Minesweeper?
cadandcookies
21-12-2013, 23:13
What if it's just some sort of 3D version of Minesweeper?
With real mines.
Anthony4004
21-12-2013, 23:14
With real mines.
Boom theres the game field! Now time to go wake up my team. lol.
Christopher149
21-12-2013, 23:15
You know, if you rotate that image, it looks rather like a shallow staircase.
Calvin Hartley
21-12-2013, 23:15
Boom theres the game field! Now time to go wake up my team. lol.
Boom is right.
Kabir Manghnani
21-12-2013, 23:21
(8) also support each other due to their connection with maps, and (8) does contain several references to FIRST. Security First = Safety First, but the church is still mysterious. (8) also indicates much lighter robots, at a 90lb. cap.
I don't believe the church is that much of a mystery. Its definitely open to over analyzation (and if you guys have something I'd love to here it) as are all aspects of this hint however the church is likely just a hint to tell you that you are looking in the right locations. Every image we've found has FIRST in it. I think its just telling us we might be on to something.
Christopher149
21-12-2013, 23:21
I'd be willing to believe it's a game element... maybe some sort of collection of boxes?
What if, in a twist move, we're playing a scaled up version of FTC Block Party?
Hmmm.... There have been some suggestions that the game might be a redo of 2004's (10 years ago) FIRST Frenzy. The game featured a pull-up bar very similar to Block Party's. Also, FVC (FIRST Vex Challenege) debuted with a scaled-down FIRST Frenzy, so will FRC this year be a scaled-up Block Party?? FIRST Frenzy also had steps, which may be what is shown on the one monitor.
You know, if you rotate that image, it looks rather like a shallow staircase.
Combining that with what I said MUCH earlier in the thread about the feet in this image: http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2014/Kickoff-Filming.jpg
Endgame: 30 points for fully climbing stairs, 15 for being off the ground but not completely up them
30 and 15 were chosen arbitrarily.
cadandcookies
21-12-2013, 23:27
Hmmm.... There have been some suggestions that the game might be a redo of 2004's (10 years ago) FIRST Frenzy. The game featured a pull-up bar very similar to Block Party's. Also, FVC (FIRST Vex Challenege) debuted with a scaled-down FIRST Frenzy, so will FRC this year be a scaled-up Block Party?? FIRST Frenzy also had steps, which may be what is shown on the one monitor.
There's very little actual support for it, but I love the idea of flipping the relationship between FTC and FRC teams-- they've had games similar to ours, it's our turn to have one similar to theirs.
It also fits with Frank's comment-- a scaled up version of the Block Party pendulum/ramp/bar assembly would be a sight to behold.
DampRobot
21-12-2013, 23:28
You know, if you rotate that image, it looks rather like a shallow staircase.
I'm impressed! That is something!
Joseph1825
21-12-2013, 23:29
Here's what I got when I used base10 to binary to Morse to english.
First set of numbers
e rnt
s e
or another way
t kr
o t
second set of numbers
(ststi)(vvi)(vil) u
hkl
another way
e dou
rkm
do what you want with that.
After simple research on First Frenzy it is said that it combined elements from different years which supports the recycling theories from earlier.
Anthony4004
21-12-2013, 23:37
Combining that with what I said MUCH earlier in the thread about the feet in this image: http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2014/Kickoff-Filming.jpg
Endgame: 30 points for fully climbing stairs, 15 for being off the ground but not completely up them
30 and 15 were chosen arbitrarily.
I think this is really cool because of that huge robotics competition that is happening this weekend. The Robotic Olympics they were calling it. Now if only we could get a ton of money for winning.....
Combining that with what I said MUCH earlier in the thread about the feet in this image: http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2014/Kickoff-Filming.jpg
Endgame: 30 points for fully climbing stairs, 15 for being off the ground but not completely up them
30 and 15 were chosen arbitrarily.
I love the feet thing. Stairs seems likely and frightening at the same time. I'm going to be dreaming about a drivetrain that can climb stairs now.
I wish the official game hint would elude to stairs as well to confirm, but maybe it is trying to hint at game pieces, and the picture hinting at the field elements.
Gigakaiser
21-12-2013, 23:58
Minibots race up a staircase.
sanddrag
22-12-2013, 00:00
I have absolutely no credible lead on this, but in the extremely slim chance that I hit the mark here, I'm going to go ahead and guess the game piece will be manufactured by One World Futbol (http://www.oneworldfutbol.com/our-stories/about-the-ball/). Hopefully I don't get a knock on my door tomorrow. :D
Can anyone connect anything to this place?
TheCrayButton
22-12-2013, 00:18
So far I have heard Hockey and Baseball. Go to this link and vote on which one you think it is. http://www.yopyip.com/#!poll/cmb9
Kathysmith
22-12-2013, 00:24
"Who's on FIRST" is too good of a game name to pass up. I feel certain that if they don't use it this year, they will in the near future.
Anthony4004
22-12-2013, 00:25
"Who's on FIRST" is too good of a game name to pass up. I feel certain that if they don't use it this year, they will in the near future.
Im pretty sure that is trademarked. So they would have to come up with something else.
OzzyArmas
22-12-2013, 00:50
So guys.... I was doing some research on the Andy Mark Drive Kit. The kit from this year is smaller and weighs two pounds less than last years.
If you'll all still remember that picture from a while back in the thread of Dean, Woodie, and the other man who's name slips my thought, I think that the connection it made to the hint was much too good to be a coincidence. First of all, the clue was not numbered,as they have been in the past, meaning there easily could be another clue that would have been made too obvious had they numbered this one 2, or any other number for that matter. I don't know why they would say that there's no clue in the picture if it's just supposed to be an unrelated image, unless they wanted to attract a little bit of attention to it (though I would like to know how someone got all of those details. Then someone found it matched the triangle given by the clue very closely if rotated and flipped. Quite possibly, when they said that there's no clue in THIS picture, they meant the original, meaning there could easily be one when rotated. When rotated, it matches up just right with the number three, and the triangle. I feel that the three is easily just more evidence that it should be that way, because there's have tended to come up quite a lot from FIRST GDC, and it could easily just be some confirmation. Now, given that long winded explanation, I think their feet do mean something as someone mentioned. The number of feed go up in ascending order as the chairs go up in the picture. This could easily mean a scoring element where points are awarded for either climbing higher, or putting something higher. We haven't had an arm game in quite some time, so I'm leaning slightly towards game pieces going up, however the weight limit sign someone found was just way too suspicious, so it just as may well be robots since it is easier to climb with a lighter robot. The clue when put into google maps is just too darn relevant, so I'm thinking it's a combination of the two. I don't think there's too much within the clues left, but I could be wrong (and I certainly wouldn't mind it if it gave us more info).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockford,_Illinois
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchester,_Illinois
8234/57 gave coordinates to a farm in Idaho.
61126/1963
Rockford, IL in a 1963
Supposivley in:
July 8, 1963 ----- Winnebago County farm officials decide to seek federal disaster aid because of severe drought conditions. Rain finally falls on July 13, and more is predicted.
July 29, 1963 ----- Winnebago County, one of five Northern Illinois counties declared disaster areas by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, after the worst drought in nearly 30 years.
62326/15806
62326 is a zip for Colchester, IL. So comparing the distribution of the residents' age, the number of 15 yr olds is 26, 80 yr olds is 12, and 6 yr olds is 30.
If you Google 261230, it pulls up many different brands of air pressure sensors.
So not really sure what all that means... But I gathered farms, droughts, and air pressure sensors.
Akash Rastogi
22-12-2013, 00:57
So guys.... I was doing some research on the Andy Mark Drive Kit. The kit from this year is smaller and weighs two pounds less than last years.
Yes, Andy already stated that the new kit is lighter than the previous version.
thatgirlinred
22-12-2013, 01:17
1963 was when Iron Man was first drawn. An Iron Man is a type of triathlon. There's also talks about a mashup of old games, relating to the Dr. Who anniversary and the green/recycling theory. The number 3 is a prominent feature.
I think the game will be some sort of triathlon of past games.
Okay, I only just learned of this thread a few hours ago, and since then have been looking at other peoples' findings and thinking.
Baseball seems right; the supporting evidence of the many reasons FRC would need to keep the game simple along with the many varied signposts indicating a baseball theme tell me that it isn't a red herring.
What is baseball, at it's core? One 'side' trying to score and another trying to prevent them from doing so, as well as providing them with the objects they need in order to score.
Why wouldn't straight baseball work if adapted for FRC? Obvious; in baseball, one team is purely defensive and the other purely offensive in a given segment of the game, and "side-switching" mid-match in FRC is unheard of, so regular baseball isn't the answer; some modification, at it's core, however, may be.
The various space themes: Interesting as they may be, the only things I can glean from them are 1. Possible debris on the field as was mentioned before, and 2. launching something from the ground to the sky. With 2, some baseball adaptation is looking pretty good.
Now, on to the first widely-discussed picture in this thread: The green-screen picture. Firstly, yes, 3 alliances, two with classic red/blue and the third green; green is far too significant* and the presence of two red lights and two blue lights too unlikely for me to believe otherwise at this time. Secondly, the waters; the triangle may be significant, but only in it's shape in that it's NOT equilateral. The 3-alliance theory has been shot down repeatedly because it is assumed that 3 alliances given equal opportunity and placement cannot compete in an even and fair fashion. I agree. However, so would the eggheads coming up with this competition, and if they wanted to have three alliances they'd have to plan for it by setting aside one of them as significantly different than the other 2 - possibly have one team as significant (as represented by the water NOT on the floor, ie raised up) and the other two coopertating somehow.
Now, how to apply that to the baseball theory? Think about it logically. If we assume that there are indeed three alliances and that the game is indeed baseball, short of trading off field positions three times/match how would one go about turning a two-sided sport into a three-sided one? Well, in baseball, there are 9 fielders and a maximum of 4 runners (in a grand slam). That's roughly a 2-1 ratio. Now, if you have two active teams, one twice the size of the other, and want to make 3 equal teams from that, what would you do? Divide the larger, fielding team into two.
Moving right along, the next thing I want to discuss is the second relevant image, one in which what appears to be a set of stairs can be seen in a cad file. The idea of stairs being present is why I specified "ie raised up" above. In the triangle the numbers created and in the water cups, it can almost be said that two entities are opposite each other and a third is an intermediate tending towards the lower one. What I'm imagining is: One alliance being ON a platform at all times, one being OFF at all times, and a third being an intermediate trying to help the one off the platform, being able to go both up and down the stairs. (The earlier "Berlin Wall" findings make me thing that the stairs could, rather span the entire width of the platform, be only about as wide as a Rebound Rumble bridge, being a gap in the metaphorical wall.)
Now, what would teams in these positions have to do? This is where I run low on guesses. I would wager that the team on the platform would have to be a scoring team, in that that is their first and only priority for at least the majority of the match. (The scoring objects'll be round I'd bet, enough evidence to support it.) I would also bet that the intermediate's task would be to hinder them from doing so while helping the team off the platform do what they need to do. However, I have fewer guesses for the possible details here. In this theoretical game, there would be obstacles in the way of (or at the disposal of?) the intermediate team, and they would be responsible for aiding the team off the platform. My only guess at the moment as to how the teams would score would be to shoot spheres with a diameter the same as that of a baseball or softball into circular goals with varying point values. One possible breakdown of those point values would be that which is indicated by the feet on the floor in the first photo; perhaps two holes on either side of the field, one of each pair maybe twice the diameter of the balls and one maybe 5 times the diameter. These two goals have point values of 2 and 1 (represented by the number of feet on the floor) respectively. Alliances on the floor and on the platform are both dedicated to shooting the whole time, at the goals opposite them. However, the team on the platform has a significant advantage given that they won't have to shoot nearly as high, and won't have a platform stopping them from shooting from anything farther than 2/3 court. (If the platform is 2 feet high and starts at half-court, the alliances shooting from below are going to have a 2-foot wall to shoot over, and, with height constraints, backing up much further may be necessary for a clear shot.) It is because of this advantage that the intermediate team will be helping the lower team by attempting to obstruct the upper team, and to bring game pieces to the lower team from the platform above. Now, what I'm picturing is that the game pieces that don't go in the goal land conveniently beside the opposite team, who then can pick it up and fire at the opposing goal, or be picked up by the intermediate to give to the other team.
I think I may have managed to convey my vision for this year's game adequately. One of the key things I keep referring back to in my mind that makes me believe my own theory as plausible is that "home run" message FRC put out. In that message, they mentioned that the chassis will be designed for removal and addition, quickly, of superstructures. I don't believe that's out of kindness, but rather out of necessity. Consider a robot that can climb stairs, throw baseball-sized-balls a good 40ft, manipulate potential obstacles/debris in the way, and drive quickly, maneuverably, and competitively. The robot you are considering weighs more than 90lbs, undoubtedly. Now consider one that can just drive up stairs, manipulate obstacles (possibly with the same device), and drive as described. Close, but easily under 90lbs. Now, picture a robot that can drive and fire baseballs as described; again, do-ably under 90lbs. Now think about it, a robot that has to do both - but, critically, not at the same time. Could that be under 90lbs? If you can change your superstructure in between tasks, it can. That's right. I'm picturing each robot having 2 superstructures, and superstructure changeouts being as common as bumper changeouts. "Round 8 we're red with stairclimbing." "Match 12 we're blue with launching." You get the idea. The robots'd be weighed at inspection either twice, once with each superstructure, or once, and then each superstructure individually weighed. Either way, 90lbs for the base and a single superstructure. And that's how we'd compete.
~sigh~ I just read through this product of a tired mind, and I truly hope probability wins out and that I'm wrong here. This sort of setup, while doable, doesn't lend itself to a "cheap and cheerful" robot, which is precisely what we need with so little funding at our team.
Thanks for reading my probably insane theories, looking forward to reading yours. :)
*: Unrelated, but I can't help but think that all of the people steadfastly announcing things like "GREEN IS THE HINT" were subconsciously channeling Sherlock shouting "PINK!"
Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention: There's most likely an endgame of some sort, but I've absolutely no idea what it could be. Perhaps I'm completely wrong about everything and stairs must be climbed at the end, or something as predictable as that, but maybe alliances just need to be in a particular spot or in some specific relation to each other or something.
ORR... (And this would be interesting) the robots need to make a chain of contact, but the teams below need to stay below, those above need to stay above, and the intermediates need to establish contact, so a chain of 6 robots (say 1 blue below touching another blue below touching a green on the stairs touching another green on the stairs touching a red above touching the last, red robot) would score full coopertition points.
That sounds like a lot of fun, I just went from disliking my own theory to hoping I'm right.
alectronic
22-12-2013, 02:39
Why wouldn't straight baseball work if adapted for FRC? Obvious; in baseball, one team is purely defensive and the other purely offensive in a given segment of the game, and "side-switching" mid-match in FRC is unheard of, so regular baseball isn't the answer; some modification, at it's core, however, may be.
They had "side switching" in 2006:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr-nNBK0O1Y
They had "side switching" in 2006:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr-nNBK0O1Y
Huh. Scratch that remark then, I should've done my homework a bit better. I'd only watched the videos back to 2009, and read brief summaries of the rest. (Our rookie season was last year.)
Thanks for that, I may have to do a rethink.
ButterflyXing
22-12-2013, 04:02
When we searched the divided numbers in the andymark catalog, we got the #144- lunacy wheels and #31- a 3/16" bearing. The three didn't give us anything. Looking at the FIRST Choice, we got #144 a size 2 stainless steel track, #031- pnumatic tubing (a transparent yellow) and #003 an adjustable 6" chrome wrench.
SteveGPage
22-12-2013, 04:16
1st attempt didn't work right!
SteveGPage
22-12-2013, 04:17
Neither did the second! :)
SteveGPage
22-12-2013, 04:31
I took the hint in a completely different direction. Perhaps my thoughts can take this discussion into different areas.
The three sets of numbers represent the three phases of the game: AM, Teleop, End game. The first number describes the action, the second in the set describes a rule or limitation.
To briefly take you down the path of my thoughts, I initially noticed that the larger numbers were fairly close to the total number minutes for the build season. From there, I wanted to see if any event was taking place in the 2014 Olympics in that minute - starting the clock at midnight, January 1st and counting from there.
This is what comes up:
1823 - converts to 2:17:14 - which I then converted to 2/17/14. The main event that day is the Free Dance competition. Sounds like AM to me.
57 represents the length of the field. Including the driver's station area - so thought it indicates that there is no limit how you far you can go in AM.
61126 converts to 2/12/14 at 10:45 - the beginning of the pairs free skate in figure skating. Sounds like two alliances.
1963 is the area of a circle with a radius of 25 inches. Perhaps the max size the bot can be.
62326 coverts to 2/13/14 at 6:45 - just before the beginning of the short track speed skating. While it isn't the exact minute, perhaps the use of a palindrome here represents having to go back and forth. This would be the end game.
Still trying to figure out what the last number, 15806 would represent in this case.
Just some different thoughts on this hint.
Have fun - Geekmas is almost here! :)
wilhitern1
22-12-2013, 08:22
I found a US post office in front of the "FIRST Security sign"
Long Shot - Security is often handled with Codes / Passwords / Combinations. Post boxes often have combinations. So could there be a "mailbox of sorts" that we have to use a combination to in order to deliver a game object.
Neal
RoundTabler
22-12-2013, 09:01
Just took a look at patents with the number 15806,
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=15806&prmdo=1&tbm=pts
and I got geo steering assemblies and a basket carrier.
Somerun want to run with this?
Either I or someone else should check the other numbers.
EDIT: Just went back and checked some of the other numbers:
62326 gives us a patent for a safety ladder....stairs anyone?
MooreteP
22-12-2013, 10:27
Just took a look at patents with the number 15806,
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=15806&prmdo=1&tbm=pts
and I got geo steering assemblies and a basket carrier.
Somerun want to run with this?
Either I or someone else should check the other numbers.
EDIT: Just went back and checked some of the other numbers:
62326 gives us a patent for a safety ladder....stairs anyone?
I like this.
Patents contain design information.
DEKA is into patents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEKA_(company)
Can you post links?
Oh, you did.
MooreteP
22-12-2013, 10:44
Here is an image of the basket patent?
theCADguy
22-12-2013, 11:07
Hmmm...
The picture from the basket patent includes glass bottles. We also previously discussed the potential importance of the water bottles at the feet of Dean and Woodie in the picture posted earlier in this thread. The game this year may have a connection to recycling, most likely sorting game pieces.
valeriemoore
22-12-2013, 11:09
1.(New) Has anyone considered going to the places in real life? I know that we have found signs at two of the points that seem relevant, but only a church at the third. There might be something else there that is hard or can't be found with google maps.
2.(Reflection) I think that baseball seems very likely. Between the graph that produces the sphere when the base points are put in, the fact that we are due for a ball game, and the puns on baseball.
3.(New info on old theory) I agree with whoever mentioned the difficulty with an abstract game. As someone who did field reset at midwest last year (I have never counted to 15 so many times before in my life), match turnover is so much easier when the scoring only counts once(i.e. No multipliers) . The sensors were what put the score up on the screen, but the score that actually determined the match was what we counted out. Usually we would count the Frisbees as they came in and kept a running count, but if we lost count, or there were 50+ we would do a manual recount which could take more than a minute. For there to be multipliers would make everything just so much more difficult. The game overall will probably be easy to follow along, the game pieces that are scored in the higher goals count more etc. This also makes sense with the way FIRST has been building their games in previous years. There is an easy, low point, way to score, a middle, and a difficult. The game will probably have multiple ways of scoring, some easy others difficult, and the points will probably not have multiplies.
If there is a third alliance there is NO way it can be GREEN. The two alliances are always BLUE and RED which are part of the tricolour scheme FIRST employs. The only possible colour for an additional alliance would be WHITE.
Again, anyone suggesting three alliances, I invite you to attend to a district event, and please tell me where this third alliance station will be placed, along with the new queuing as well.
RoundTabler
22-12-2013, 12:15
White might not work as a bumper color because the bumper rules indicate that the numbers MUST be WHITE, NO color other than WHITE, and may not be anything other than WHITE. White on white doesn't work too well. The bumper numbers may be outlined in another color, but that wouldn't show up too well even then.
My 2cents
valeriemoore
22-12-2013, 12:15
While I love the idea of 3 Alliances (3 teams of 2), and its implications on game play and strategy, I think that logistically it will be difficult. Three alliances would mean 3 sets of bumpers. If you have been down near the field during a regional (and I imagine district events too) you can tell see how much stuff is done to keep everything running smoothly, three alliances would complicate that. Keeping just red and blue strait for queuing takes effort. Scoring for 3 alliances would also be more complicated. While I love the idea, I don't think it's logistically probable. Although I do agree, if there are three alliances it is going to be red, white and blue.
I Also think we have over analysed that photo, there is a green screen because they wanted to add in backgrounds post production, there were three water-bottles because there were three people being filmed. I'm pretty sure that there were red and blue lights because that is how you set up lighting, but i'm not sure about that one.
If there is a third alliance there is NO way it can be GREEN. The two alliances are always BLUE and RED which are part of the tricolour scheme FIRST employs. The only possible colour for an additional alliance would be WHITE.
Calvin Hartley
22-12-2013, 12:23
White might not work as a bumper color because the bumper rules indicate that the numbers MUST be WHITE, NO color other than WHITE, and may not be anything other than WHITE. White on white doesn't work too well. The bumper numbers may be outlined in another color, but that wouldn't show up too well even then.
My 2cents
How did you get a look at the 2014 manual?? ::rtm::
Never count on any rules staying the same from year to year. Anything from last year could change.
roboryan
22-12-2013, 12:24
White might not work as a bumper color because the bumper rules indicate that the numbers MUST be WHITE, NO color other than WHITE, and may not be anything other than WHITE. White on white doesn't work too well. The bumper numbers may be outlined in another color, but that wouldn't show up too well even then.
Again, anyone suggesting three alliances, I invite you to attend to a district event, and please tell me where this third alliance station will be placed, along with the new queuing as well.
FIRST could change both of these rules to accommodate a new game maybe just for white bumper black lettering and for three alliances a smaller differently shaped field (other than rectangular 54x27 foot field)
You guys are acting like FIRST couldn't change their own rules
What are people inputting into wolfram alpha to get the sphere?
If there is a third alliance there is NO way it can be GREEN. The two alliances are always BLUE and RED which are part of the tricolour scheme FIRST employs. The only possible colour for an additional alliance would be WHITE.
White might not work as a bumper color because the bumper rules indicate that the numbers MUST be WHITE, NO color other than WHITE, and may not be anything other than WHITE. White on white doesn't work too well. The bumper numbers may be outlined in another color, but that wouldn't show up too well even then.
My 2centsI'd go into why 3 alliances will NOT work, but I've done that too many times in the last couple months.
I will leave you with this: The last time they did 1v1v1, the colors were red, blue, and white, with white removed for eliminations. White numbers on white bumpers would be easily solved by requiring a black border on all numbers.
The last time they did more than 3 separate scoring opportunities for robots, in 2001, the 4 colors were red, blue, green, and yellow.
FIRST could change both of these rules to accommodate a new game maybe just for white bumper black lettering and for three alliances a smaller differently shaped field (other than rectangular 54x27 foot field)
You guys are acting like FIRST couldn't change their own rules
If they did change the shape of the field, they would have to decrease the size of it, in order to still fit it in a high school gym. A rectangle is the optimal size for a gym. And having more robots on a smaller field wouldn't exactly be fun.
valeriemoore
22-12-2013, 13:30
I think that we have exhausted the discussion about 2 vs 3 alliances. Could we move onto another part of the FRC game hint?
My crazy prediction. The game will be called FIRST Base
Bryce Paputa
22-12-2013, 14:04
What are people inputting into wolfram alpha to get the sphere?
Any three noncolinear points define a sphere, however I'm not sure how they got the nine numbers necessary (x1, y1, z1, ... z3). It probably doesn't mean anything.
engawesome
22-12-2013, 14:20
The mentor for my team found some of this information:
"OK.... I'll play the guessing game as well.
On Amazon, there is a product with the number 8234/57. It's a picture with a lot of different box sizes.
(http://www.amazon.com/iCanvasART-Piccolo-Schiele-Canvas-8-piece/dp/B00D99PYKK)
On You-tube, there is a video of a plane in Rockford, IL (area code 61126) from 1963
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtkQ6wA9rYY)
Last hint: (http://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?fips=IL18&progcode=corn&page=790), Wiber T Johnson. If you look at Wibert Johnson, you'll see he was a boxer.
So a block sorting game with robots that can't touch the ground...."
The plane could also relate to what others have been saying about making lighter-weight robots
Orion.DeYoe
22-12-2013, 14:38
I took the hint in a completely different direction. Perhaps my thoughts can take this discussion into different areas.
The three sets of numbers represent the three phases of the game: AM, Teleop, End game. The first number describes the action, the second in the set describes a rule or limitation.
To briefly take you down the path of my thoughts, I initially noticed that the larger numbers were fairly close to the total number minutes for the build season. From there, I wanted to see if any event was taking place in the 2014 Olympics in that minute - starting the clock at midnight, January 1st and counting from there.
This is what comes up:
1823 - converts to 2:17:14 - which I then converted to 2/17/14. The main event that day is the Free Dance competition. Sounds like AM to me.
57 represents the length of the field. Including the driver's station area - so thought it indicates that there is no limit how you far you can go in AM.
61126 converts to 2/12/14 at 10:45 - the beginning of the pairs free skate in figure skating. Sounds like two alliances.
1963 is the area of a circle with a radius of 25 inches. Perhaps the max size the bot can be.
62326 coverts to 2/13/14 at 6:45 - just before the beginning of the short track speed skating. While it isn't the exact minute, perhaps the use of a palindrome here represents having to go back and forth. This would be the end game.
Still trying to figure out what the last number, 15806 would represent in this case.
Just some different thoughts on this hint.
Have fun - Geekmas is almost here! :)
Hmmm, that's a very interesting interpretation. You might have something here...
Kevin Thorp
22-12-2013, 15:07
On You-tube, there is a video of a plane in Rockford, IL (area code 61126) from 1963
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtkQ6wA9rYY)
That's Duane Cole, one of the most famous aerobatic pilots in the 1960s. Two facts might be relevant: His simple Taylorcraft was much lighter than a typical aerobatic aircraft. And he flew inverted so much he had his name painted on the plane upside down.
Makes you wonder...
http://www.airventuremuseum.org/images/collection/aircraft/4Taylorcraft_Cole%20BF-50-1.jpg
obaranow2015
22-12-2013, 15:42
I think I may have figured it out, the challenge has to do with wind.
The first numbers are area codes, to Vilnius Lithuania, Rockford IL, and Colchester, all have wind turbine farms. Right now the museums of Lithuania, has an energy and technology wing, which includes wind. In 1957 the museum was destroyed in the soviet war. Rockford IL also has a wind farm, with 63 working wind turbines, and on April 4th 1963 the city had major damage due to a wind storm. Now, Colchester IL, and Colchester in UK both have wind turbine farms, but I can't figure out the last number, 15806.
so yah thats what I think
From the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
What is Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything?
Answer: 42.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrases_from_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galax y#Answer_to_the_Ultimate_Question_of_Life.2C_the_U niverse.2C_and_Everything_.2842.29
Game has to do with Space. Not necessarily outer space, but maybe reduced size/space on playing field, definitely reduced size chassis.
Which means that the only two digits remaining are...
http://i.imgur.com/xvePEkL.jpg
I rest my case.
theCADguy
22-12-2013, 16:01
From the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
What is Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything?
Answer: 42.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrases_from_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galax y#Answer_to_the_Ultimate_Question_of_Life.2C_the_U niverse.2C_and_Everything_.2842.29
Game has to do with Space. Not necessarily outer space, but maybe reduced size/space on playing field, definitely reduced size chassis.
Maybe we will have to program our robots to find the question:)
Fielding S.
22-12-2013, 16:04
1963 was when Iron Man was first drawn. An Iron Man is a type of triathlon. There's also talks about a mashup of old games, relating to the Dr. Who anniversary and the green/recycling theory. The number 3 is a prominent feature.
I think the game will be some sort of triathlon of past games.
Ok, let me throw in my 2 cents.
I really like this Iron Man idea. The number 3 is prominent, yes? Baseball is a prominent theory, right? How many bases are there besides home base in baseball? 3.
I'm thinking of a baseball themed game that has a starting point and three "bases" where tasks are to be performed, such as climbing stairs. The goal is to pass all three bases and reach the starting point under a time limit. As for the objectives of each base, I don't know for sure.
There have been multiple people talking about the sphere, rectangle, and triangle. What shape is a baseball? A sphere.
As for the rectangle and triangle, have you seen the home plate of a baseball field? The shape of the home plate is comprised of two different shapes: a triangle and a rectangle. Also, the infield of a baseball field is called a "diamond". A diamond has four sides and is somewhat rectangular, so it could work as a field shape.
Just my thoughts.
pwnageNick
22-12-2013, 16:05
Game has to do with Space. Not necessarily outer space, but maybe reduced size/space on playing field, definitely reduced size chassis.
You could have figured that out without this game hint:
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/kit-of-parts
AndyMark Drive Base Kit (AM14U):
These are the items that go to teams that did not opt out of the KOP Drive System.
Checklist coming soon!
Size: 5.5" x 6.5" x 33"
Weight: 22 lbs
2014 Drive System User Guide (coming soon!)
The size of the box or kit means it is very unlikely that the robot size would go back up to the old size of 28x38. It looks like it will stay somewhere around the 112 perimeter like last year (or 24x32 if you keep about the same rectangle ratio).
-Nick
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