AZTECHS Collaborative Scouting Database

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Posted by AZTECHS 157 at 1/29/2001 12:35 PM EST


Other on team #157, The AZTECHS, from Assabet Valley RTHS and EMC/Simplex/Intel.



Hi Folks,

This is just a friendly letter to all of this year's FIRST teams from the AZTECHS 157. This year the competition has gotten a lot more complicated. Not only do our robots have to deal with a teeter-totter bridge but Dean Kamen and the individuals at FIRST spiced things up a bit by putting all the robots on the same team.
We figure that it is no longer considered "spying" to scout other teams, and with all of your help, we can work together to maximize the amount of points that we all score. The information that you provide will be placed into a database that will be accessible to everyone via our team website: http://www.aztechs157.org.
The following is a list of specific tasks that robots can and can't do. We would truly appreciate it if each team took a moment to put an "x" next to the specified abilities that their robot is capable of handling, and for the extra questions listed below those, please fill in the amount of time and the speed. We would also be grateful for a digital picture of your robot (jpeg) and a brief text description of how your robot works and how you plan to work in your alliance to score points. If you have any other abilities not listed below feel free to write them in the email.
As always good luck and thanks for all of your help. Oh, by the way, don't forget to identify your team # in the email.
Your Friends in FIRST,
AZTECHS Team 157


TEAM # : __________

______ Balance Bridge
______ Balance One Goal
______ Balance Two Goals
______ Must be on the Bridge to Balance
______ Move Goal
______ Move Stretcher
______ Score Black Balls at 7 feet
______ Score Black Balls (Tipped Goal)
______ Score Large Balls at 7 feet
______ Score Large Balls (Tipped Goal)
______ Cross the Field Without Bridge

________________ Time it takes to Balance the Bridge
________________ Time it takes to Balance One Goal
________________ Time it takes to Balance Two Goals
________________ Speed (Feet/Sec)

If you wish to have your team contact email listed in the database please write it below, if not please specify "no" and we will withhold that address.
______________________________________________

Which regional(s) will you be attending? _____________________________________________
Will you be attending nationals? ___________________

Thanks again! We look forward to seeing you soon!

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Posted by Jessica Boucher at 1/29/2001 2:33 PM EST


Student on team #237, Sie-H2O-Bots, from Watertown High School and Eastern Awning Systems & The Siemon Company.


In Reply to: AZTECHS Collaborative Scouting Database
Posted by AZTECHS 157 on 1/29/2001 12:35 PM EST:



Wait, how many scouting programs are out there being offered now? I lost count.....

-Jessica B, #237

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Posted by AZTECHS 157 at 1/29/2001 2:40 PM EST


Other on team #157, The AZTECHS, from Assabet Valley RTHS and EMC/Simplex/Intel.


In Reply to: ::sigh::
Posted by Jessica Boucher on 1/29/2001 2:33 PM EST:



: Wait, how many scouting programs are out there being offered now? I lost count.....

: -Jessica B, #237

Jessica,
This is different from what has been posted here before. The Aztechs database is an online searchable database of team abilities, which competitions they are attending, robot pictures, and contact emails.

I urge every team to try it out and to post their robot's abilities. It can only help you.

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Posted by Nate Smith at 1/29/2001 5:42 PM EST


Other on team #66, GM Powertrain/Willow Run HS, from Eastern Michigan University and GM Powertrain.


In Reply to: Re: ::sigh::
Posted by AZTECHS 157 on 1/29/2001 2:40 PM EST:



: : Wait, how many scouting programs are out there being offered now? I lost count.....

: : -Jessica B, #237

: Jessica,
: This is different from what has been posted here before. The Aztechs database is an online searchable database of team abilities, which competitions they are attending, robot pictures, and contact emails.

: I urge every team to try it out and to post their robot's abilities. It can only help you.

Just a point of caution regarding having teams submit their own information, especially at this point in the season: While a team may not do it intentionally, what they are planning on having their robot do and/or what it is designed to do and what it can actually do reliably in competition are two very different things based on my experience...

Just my thoughts...

Nate

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Posted by Ken Patton at 1/29/2001 10:26 PM EST


Engineer on team #65, The Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.


In Reply to: Warning Re. Teams Giving their own information
Posted by Nate Smith on 1/29/2001 5:42 PM EST:



You are right, Nate. Wishful thinking and objective data are many times not the same thing. Getting observed results from multiple sources (and even identifying ther sources) is important.

Ken

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Posted by Jim Meyer at 1/30/2001 9:15 AM EST


Engineer on team #67, HOT Team, from Huron Valley Schools and GM Milford Proving Ground.


In Reply to: agreed
Posted by Ken Patton on 1/29/2001 10:26 PM EST:



I think the best source of information would be what teams have accomplished in real matches. My preference would be for a history of what each robot has done and in how many seconds for each match that they've been in. This may seem like an ambitious goal but if everyone worked together it should be no problem. This is also data the you should be able to get directly from the teams.

The big difference, as I see it, is you are gathering facts not perceptions. The reliability of a robot would also be reflected in this data, something that is very hard to judge without hard data. The only danger I see with a system like this would be you could miss things like Chief Delphi being able to remove balls from the goal at Great Lakes last year, though I seriously doubt they were giving that information away in their pits.

The real challenge as I see it is how to quantify the data so it is consistent and searchable.

IMHO

I may be a little biased since I do reliability based test development for a living. (Suppliers can't merely claim performance and reliability they have to demonstrate it to us in a test.)

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Posted by ChrisH at 1/30/2001 12:03 PM EST


Engineer on team #330, Beach 'Bots, from Hope Chapel Academy and NASA JPL, J & F Machine, Raytheon, et al.


In Reply to: Warning Re. Teams Giving their own information
Posted by Nate Smith on 1/29/2001 5:42 PM EST:



I don't see any problem with having a data base of what teams CLAIM they can do and another set of data for what they ACTUALLY do. Indeed, the most valuable information about them might be the difference between the two sets of data.

We have to start somewhere and team provided data is a good place to do so. Is verification needed, absolutely. But it's a little hard to verify performance right now since the robots are still taking shape.

Giving teams the ability to update their "published" data as time goes on is also very important. I can see a team publishing honest results of testing and then finding very diferent results in actual competition. Such a team that honestly publishes and updates the different results, especially if they have to revise performance downward, has my respect.

Personally I'd rather work with a reliable partner who can and will do what they say than an unreliable partner who is very capable but does their own thing.

To quote our veteran driver "The thing that scares me about this years competition is that I've always had more trouble dealing with our partners than our opponents"

Chris Husmann, PE
Team 330 the Beach'Bots