[FRC Blog] Kickoff Broadcast and Game Hint Redux

[Hallry]

Posted on the FRC Blog, 12/30/13: http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-Kickoff-Broadcast-Game-Hint-Redux

Kickoff Broadcast and Game Hint Redux

Blog Date: Monday, December 30, 2013 - 13:35

Watching the Kickoff Broadcast

If you’re not attending a local Kickoff and want to watch the broadcast, it can be found at http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/robotics/first/kickoff-2014/. The stream may be up and down for the next week or so as various formats and options are tested. You can click on the "Webcast Flash Backup Stream" if you get a "Playlist could not be loaded" error from the Primary Stream. NASA is currently streaming the NASA-TV Education satellite feed to that encoder.

2014 Game Hint Redux

I’ve been checking in on the posts on Chief Delphi about the hint we released a few weeks ago.

You may want to take a look at the ‘Frank Answers Fridays’ post that included some information about game hints here (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-frank-answers-fridays-11112013). The reason I said ‘we don’t spend too much time on this’ is because we don’t spend too much time on this. Some folks on the GDC honestly thought the hint this year was going to be too easy. Admittedly, we made a few tweaks to the hint after those statements were made, but I didn’t think the tweaks obscured things excessively. I must have been wrong about that.

We did, however, on double checking, find that the first set of numbers in the hint contained a potential error, or at least data we can't verify at this point. We aren’t saying it’s wrong, we’re just not 100% sure it’s right. So maybe we should have spent a little more time on this one! Sorry about that. As compensation, we're replacing that set of numbers with a new set that should get you to the same answer. We've also reformatted some of the numbers to hopefully make them a little more familiar. Here's the updated hint:

61474:135, 12661:1963, 32662:15806

From what I've seen on CD, folks are trying far too hard on this. Once you get the answer, it will be so obvious I expect some reactions like this*:

http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2014/333.gif

Frank

*Doctor Who is not a hint. I just happen to enjoy the show.

[Please don’t take my saying Doctor Who is not a hint to mean it really is a hint. It’s really not a hint]

[[Please don’t take my saying Doctor Who really is not a hint to mean it really really is a hint. It’s really really not a hint]]

[[[etc]]]

[Anupam Goli]

Due to what will likely be game hint discussion in this thread, we should move this to the rumors subforum.

[Calvin Hartley]

From what I've seen on CD, folks are trying far too hard on this.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[phantokidd7x]

I happened to be on Facebook today and the first post that I saw was that FIRST updated their blog HERE (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-Kickoff-Broadcast-Game-Hint-Redux) today with info on Kickoff and the game hint. Here's what they said:

Admittedly, we made a few tweaks to the hint after those statements were made, but I didn’t think the tweaks obscured things excessively. I must have been wrong about that.

We did, however, on double checking, find that the first set of numbers in the hint contained a potential error, or at least data we can't verify at this point. We aren’t saying it’s wrong, we’re just not 100% sure it’s right. So maybe we should have spent a little more time on this one! Sorry about that. As compensation, we're replacing that set of numbers with a new set that should get you to the same answer. We've also reformatted some of the numbers to hopefully make them a little more familiar. Here's the updated hint:

61474:135, 12661:1963, 32662:15806

From what I've seen on CD, folks are trying far too hard on this. Once you get the answer, it will be so obvious I expect some reactions like this*:
http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2014/333.gif

Frank

*Doctor Who is not a hint. I just happen to enjoy the show.

[Please don’t take my saying Doctor Who is not a hint to mean it really is a hint. It’s really not a hint]

[[Please don’t take my saying Doctor Who really is not a hint to mean it really really is a hint. It’s really really not a hint]]

[[[etc]]]

What do you guys think?

[Whippet]

a little more familiar.

We've seen these numbers before?!?

Team 135 is the Black Knights, and team 1963 was PSC robotics. 135 is from Indiana, and 1963 was from England. No luck there.

[Hallry]

I think that we already have a thread about this here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=123823. This thread can be closed/deleted.

[yarden.saa]

It's not funny to change the hint, they laugh from where they sit::ouch::

[cadandcookies]

I just want to point out that I'm relatively sure that that gif is from "Waters of Mars," the 2009 Dr. Who autumn special.

It takes place on Mars when a virus that creates water infects the first (human) martian colony.

(edit: just realized it's from 2009)

[coalhot]

It's not funny to change the hint, they laugh from where they sit::ouch::

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/44437885.jpg

[fsgond]

Woot Woot, 135!

[Zuelu562]

Porting my (and George1902's) Findings to here:

Using the idea that the first number (EDIT: Of each pair) is a date, I searched June 14, 1974, December 6, 1961 (Could be January 26, '61 however), and March 26, 1962.

Those dates yielded some interesting results. June 14th '74 was the date Nolan Ryan stuck out 19 Red Sox in 12 innings. December 6, 1961 was the day the Heisman was awarded in that particular year. March 26 1962 was the birthday of several athletes, covering Baseball, basketball and soccer, and was the day the inventor of wax paper died.

January 26, 1961 (the alternative option to Dec 6 61) was the day Elvis Presley's hit "Are you lonesome tonight?" peaked to #1, and is the birthday of Hockey great Wayne Gretzky.

Lots of references to sports.

Wayne Gretzky holds the regular season record for career assists: 1963.

John Stockton holds this record in basketball: 15806.

John Stockton was the basketball player born on 3/26/62.

EDIT: Steve Ralston, Born June 14, 1974, is the all-time career leader in assists in the MLS at 135.

3 Sports references, all different sports, all have the "assist" as a tracked statistic. Something to do with assists methinks.

[GCDelp]

Steve Ralston, born 6-14-74, holds the MLS record for assists: 135.

Wayne Gretzky, born 1-26-61, holds NHL record for career assists: 1963.

John Stockton, born 3-26-62, holds the NBA assists record: 15806.

I was beat to it a bit in the other thread, but it looks like we have a pattern of assisting going on.

[Hallry]

If you search the first set of the updated numbers, 61474:135, on Google, you get an Aircraft Part:

TRIPLE TACHYMETRIC INDICATOR, Part No. 61474-135-1
Source: http://www.aerosup.com/THALES-AVIONICS/Aircraft-Part-Number-61474-135-1.aspx

No hits for the second or third sets of the updated numbers, though.

[George1902]

And to solve the unsolvable first clue...

Landon Donovan, born 3-4-82, holds the all-time US Soccer assists record: 57.

[bduddy]

And to solve the unsolvable first clue...

Landon Donovan, born 3-4-82, holds the all-time US Soccer assists record: 57.Yup, this is it. We're done here, guys.

[Zuelu562]

Now that we've figured out Assists is the clue, what can we infer about the game from "assists" or "assisting"?

[peronis]

And to solve the unsolvable first clue...

Landon Donovan, born 3-4-82, holds the all-time US Soccer assists record: 57.

I think we got it!

[malanis]

THREE sports. you have to build your robot to use only one of the three kinds of game pieces. you have to assist each other, and hopefully have one basketball, one soccer, and one hockey playing robot.

[GCDelp]

So now that we realize the game has to do with assisting, time to speculate on what we're going to be assisting with. Assist the other team, maybe? Are we going to see coopertition points returning?

[Hallry]

I agree with GCDelp, and I definitely think George1902 is really on to something with this assist data:

Steve Ralston, born 6-14-74, holds the MLS record for assists: 135.

Wayne Gretzky, born 1-26-61, holds NHL record for career assists: 1963.

John Stockton, born 3-26-62, holds the NBA assists record: 15806.

Seems to fit the updated numbers, 61474:135, 12661:1963, 32662:15806, perfectly.

Assist = return of Coopertition. Boom. Done. (:P)

[Steven Donow]

Return of the Coopertition bonus!:D

[Dustin Shadbolt]

I seriously think hint is solved. Sports(maybe) and assisting being a big part of it. GG.

[Christian751]

Angels' Nolan Ryan strikes out 19 Red Sox in 12 innings on 14th June 1974.

[Anthony4004]

So now that we realize the game has to do with assisting, time to speculate on what we're going to be assisting with. Assist the other team, maybe? Are we going to see coopertition points returning?

I would personally LOVE another coop game. It usually makes the endgame a LOT more interesting to watch....and drive :D

[Andrew Lawrence]

Return of the Coopertition bonus!:D

I don't know if assist would mean the bringing back of coopertition (especially after it's not so positive reception), but maybe a need to assist your alliance partners. Most games can be played by a single robot by itself - maybe now you really need your teammates to score big.

[Josh Drake]

That was easy, so assist
maybe a balancing bridge again....

[Twins Inc.]

As compensation, we're replacing that set of numbers with a new set that should get you to the same answer

But these numbers lead to the same answer even though they've been changed. Its just that this new set of numbers makes finding the hint easier. SO its probably not any dates, records, or specific numbers. I don't know what it is; BUT it has to lead to the same thing, regardless of specific numbers.

[Anthony4004]

Well there we go. Hint solved in about 10 min. Nice. So how will this tie to the poem that was posted? Just to make sure we take in all angles, and better our chance of being correct.

[GCDelp]

I agree with GCDelp, and I definitely think George1902 is really on to something with this assist data:
-snip-

I can't take much credit. George beat me to it by a few minutes in the other thread. Good on him though!

And yeah, coopertition sounds fun, but we still don't know too much about the true nature of the game. At least the GDC was kind to us!

[kk_4849]

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assist it seems as though assisting is a pass that results in scoring. Maybe we'll have to pass game pieces between robots in our alliance?

[Big Kid]

All those sports also involve scoring their game pieces in a type of net. Just my additional 2 cents.

[nicholsjj]

SO we have the birth dates of:

Two Soccer all-time assist leaders: 2010 Game

The basketball all-time assist leader: 2012 Game

And the greatest hockey player/ all-time assist leader: 2014? Game

The pattern would be over a two year gap. This is very simple and straightforward. The U.S. Men"s world cup soccer team will also be led by Donovan. The Winter Olympics are being held in 2014, and it is the 75 anniversary of American Hockey.

Thanks George and GCDelp for pointing me in this direction. I am probably wrong though :)

[Andrew Lawrence]

Well there we go. Hint solved in about 10 min. Nice. So how will this tie to the poem that was posted? Just to make sure we take in all angles, and better our chance of being correct.

Don't be so quick to think the hint is solved. Just because there's something that *may* make sense out of a small bit of information doesn't mean it's the only solution.

[Littleboy]

Maybe there are different zones and there is a limit on how many robots can be in a zone at once. Robots would have to assist each other in scoring because they all can't score at once.


Or maybe the 2007 ramps are being brought back.

[Anthony4004]

SO we have the birth dates of:

Two Soccer all-time assist leaders: 2010 Game

The basketball all-time assist leader: 2012 Game

And the greatest hockey player/ all-time assist leader: 2014? Game

The pattern would be over a two year gap. This is very simple and straightforward. The U.S. Men"s world cup soccer team will also be led by Donovan. The Winter Olympics are being held in 2014, and it is the 75 anniversary of American Hockey.

This sounds accurate. There is no way to possibly win (easily) in hockey without assisting.

[Scott_4140]

From Wikipedia

Several sports have a statistic known as an "assist", generally relating to action by a player leading to a score by another player on their team:
Assist (basketball), a pass by a player that facilitates a basket by another
Assist (ice hockey), a pass by a player or players that helps set up a goal
Assist (football) (soccer), a pass by a player or players that helps set up a goal
Assist in Australian rules football, the last pass by a player that directly helps set up a goal
Assist (baseball), any touching of the ball by a defensive player after it has been hit by the batter and prior to the recording of a putout
Assist in water polo, the last pass by a player that directly helps set up a goal
Assist in ultimate, a pass by a player on which a goal is scored.


Pass seems to be the key here.

--Scott

[Josh Drake]

Foosball
:D

[Jarren Harkema]

But these numbers lead to the same answer even though they've been changed. Its just that this new set of numbers makes finding the hint easier. SO its probably not any dates, records, or specific numbers. I don't know what it is; BUT it has to lead to the same thing, regardless of specific numbers.

Hello, I'm new here, but been following the game hints thread since it started. I have to agree with this. Both the old numbers and the new numbers have to some how come to a similar solution. I think we need to start looking at the numbers as if they are not numbers...

[Anthony4004]

Hello, I'm new here, but been following the game hints thread since it started. I have to agree with this. Both the old numbers and the new numbers have to some how come to a similar solution. I think we need to start looking at the numbers as if they are not numbers...

And we also need to tie in the poem that was posted on twitter.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Maybe there are different zones and there is a limit on how many robots can be in a zone at once. Robots would have to assist each other in scoring because they all can't score at once.

I think this is the most likely scenario. Something like 2010 where you're limited to how many robots are in a zone at once.

[MechEng83]

Game name: Triple Assist.

[JohnSchneider]

If "Pass" is the important word we may see something like Breakaway, where most teams will need to move the ball from their zone for their partner to score.

[ebmonon36]

Hello, I'm new here, but been following the game hints thread since it started. I have to agree with this. Both the old numbers and the new numbers have to some how come to a similar solution. I think we need to start looking at the numbers as if they are not numbers...

They do come to the same solution. The original numbers were written using the date format of year/month/date. The new numbers were written in the date format of month/day/year. The first number changed to make it look more like a date instead of a random number.

[vanjan14]

Obviously this will be the game piece, combining Soccer balls and hockey pucks!
http://www.amazon.com/Spin-Master-Toys-Phlat-Ball/dp/B00093GHHS/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

[George1902]

Basketballs, soccer balls, and pucks (see 1999) have all been used in FRC games in the past. Perhaps we will see the return of one or all of these elements?

Never has an FRC game required robots to transfer scoring objects between them, probably because it's so difficult. In fact, instances where it has happened are remembered as epic (see the "A-bomb" of 2006 and 16's elegant assist 'bot of 2012).

FRC games have had robots cooperating using their drive trains (climbing obstacles, balancing bridges, climbing and lifting each other). This is a more realistic type of assisting and one that I expect to see.

[thursam]

Game name: Triple Assist.

This seems like something the GDC would come up with.

Hello, I'm new here, but been following the game hints thread since it started. I have to agree with this. Both the old numbers and the new numbers have to some how come to a similar solution. I think we need to start looking at the numbers as if they are not numbers...

I've been following the hints since they were posted as well, like Jarren - with the last set of numbers, people were running rampant with theories because they were thinking about them like NUMBERS. Last year, for Ultimate Ascent, the GDC released a random string of numbers that ended up being letters.

If you treat the numbers clues like letters, then maybe it WILL connect to the poem.

[TAlholm]

This could be the addition of a possible "offsides" penalty...

[bduddy]

I think the GDC is going to come out with a game that encourages/requires passing of game pieces between robots. This has been theoretically possible and beneficial in many previous games, but never really done to any great extent (except for autonomous in 2012, which isn't really the same thing...) I think it will be fun to see what they came up with.

(This probably also maintains the ball/not-ball pattern, because it's pretty hard to pass things that aren't balls...)

[Anthony4004]

Game name: Triple Assist.

That could sounds really cool.....

[XaulZan11]

Never has an FRC game required robots to transfer scoring objects between them, probably because it's so difficult. In fact, instances where it has happened are remembered as epic (see the "A-bomb" of 2006 and 16's elegant assist 'bot of 2012).


Don't forget about the countless instances of teams transfering basketballs during autonomous in 2012.

[Isaac501]

Aaaand just because it's ridiculous..

google images: limerick hockey

There's an underwater hockey team in Limerick, Ireland.


WATER GAME.

[Jay O'Donnell]

I'm assuming that assist is just a hint towards the general game (hockey or a combo of sports) and not a specific of the game. 2012 was called REBOUND rumble, and yet I don't remember any teams rebounding like they do in real basketball (catching it before it hits the ground). Due to basketball and soccer being recent games, I'm thinking Hockey.

[bearbot]

It be cool to see FIRST combine older games into a new game.Might be a ramp we have to climb on to and lift our teammates up for the endgame.The water bottles seem to resemble a ramp

[Anthony4004]

I'm just going to say that I'd prefer the game be about baseball rather than hockey simply due to the fact that balls are a lot easier to handle than pucks. Also pucks have been used in the past, plus the ball pattern. Baseball:D

[maxwellt]

SO we have the birth dates of:

Two Soccer all-time assist leaders: 2010 Game

The basketball all-time assist leader: 2012 Game

And the greatest hockey player/ all-time assist leader: 2014? Game

The pattern would be over a two year gap. This is very simple and straightforward. The U.S. Men"s world cup soccer team will also be led by Donovan. The Winter Olympics are being held in 2014, and it is the 75 anniversary of American Hockey.

Thanks George and GCDelp for pointing me in this direction. I am probably wrong though :)

I think that it might be on the lines of a Hockey game one because of the up coming Olympics, and if you think about it is a sport they haven't done yet (they have done nascar, basketball, soccer, ultimate Frisbee just to name a few) , and could I also start the speculation of bringing back the regolith field???? :ahh:

[George1902]

Don't forget about the countless instances of teams transfering basketballs during autonomous in 2012.

Excellent point. But it was still an impressive feat when it happened and hardly the norm. Even when the robots were hand-aligned.

[Isaac501]

Though in some seriousness:
Going on the Hockey tangent, and the limerick:

rhyming with assist yields twist.
"twist assist" is a Dutch product for field hockey.
It's sort of elongated bearing put around the stick.

[malanis]

Woody just posted this huge thing on coopertition for this year. thought id throw that out

[wt200999]

They seem to be stressing 3's a lot, as well as hockey and maybe Olympics.

What other sport is played on Ice, and has something to do with 3?

Curling does!

In curling the Third is in charge of helping with strategy at the end of the game.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/the-members-of-a-curling-team.html

[Kevin Thorp]

I'll just leave this here...

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/403756_189094731187228_1909230440_n.jpg

[Anthony Galea]

I think we have an advantage; our workspace is in a hockey arena. :D

[RedViBritannia]

Hey all! Sorry if any of this has been seen already, but a bunch of things just clicked in my head and I want to get them out. Also, I had posted this in the other thread but saw that one was abandoned, sorry to repeat!

I knocked the ratios down to decimal numbers, and I got(assuming I did my math right):

455.36, 6.45, and 2.07

Since there are 3 numbers, they could not possibly be used for coordinates, so I had to think, 'what else could we use these decimal numbers for?'.

Then I saw the Dr Who image, so I started thinking about Tennant's run.

Then I thought about The Library. The Dewey Decimal System.

Looking up those numbers, this is the categories that they reference:

455.36: Basic Grammar, specifically, Italian (probably irrelevant, that last bit)

6.45 is acoustical pattern recognition, and the only classification in the DDS below that is Speech Recognition (!!!!!). Consider the new abilities of the Microsoft Kinect 2.0 (then again, it is built into the system so...)

2.07 was just meta-book stuff. Not sure what to make of it.

So there's that. I might be way off, but it's something at least, right?

EDIT: Wow I'm way late to this party and off by about 400 miles. Solid work guys.

[fimmel]

and could I also start the speculation of bringing back the regolith field???? :ahh:

Yes! Us norther teams might do well again! Especially after this years ice storms.

[JRuegsegger]

I think this is fitting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbRdDhYFGSw

[thursam]

Woody just posted this huge thing on coopertition for this year. thought id throw that out

One of my teachers always says that there is no such thing as a coincidence.

[sanddrag]

What happened to the thread titled "[FRC Twitter] 2014 Game Hint 2" with a thread ID of 123822 ? It just up and vanished within the last hour. No signs of it being merged. Did I solve the poem correctly, and thus it was deleted? I put a considerable amount of time into my post, and ow it is gone. :( They're conspiring against us...

[DavisC]

Well if you consider the sport->no sport pattern it doesn't make since to be a sport (assuming ultimate Frisbee is a sport).

What if it is regolith with trailers again but you score on your OWN team's trailer.

[kk_4849]

It is possible that they could bring back the Regolith (or something similar), especially if it is a hockey game.

[JohnSchneider]

Well if you consider the sport->no sport pattern it doesn't make since to be a sport (assuming ultimate Frisbee is a sport).

What if it is regolith with trailers again but you score on your OWN team's trailer.

You would have to assume frisbee ISN'T a sport for that to be correct

[malanis]

"Well if you consider the sport->no sport pattern it doesn't make since to be a sport (assuming ultimate Frisbee is a sport).

What if it is regolith with trailers again but you score on your OWN team's trailer."

honestly, they can do whatever they want. they don't have to follow any patterns

[DavisC]

honestly, they can do whatever they want. they don't have to follow any patterns

True but i remember how last year everyone had assumed no sport because of the pattern but everyone was surprised by ultimate Frisbee because it broke it.

I just doubt them doing that twice in a row.

[Littleboy]

If it is a hockey game, 174 predicted the future and built a robot for 2014 last year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJzqWTVHR7k

[atucker4072]

Well if you consider the sport->no sport pattern it doesn't make since to be a sport (assuming ultimate Frisbee is a sport).

What if it is regolith with trailers again but you score on your OWN team's trailer.

I wouldn't be too sure on that... that would make it so that one team just sits there and has balls dumped into their trailer and I don't think the GDC would want that to happen.

[malanis]

FRC is almost at the point of spectator sport. the games are becoming more "fun to watch" because the more interesting it is, the more people who want to get involved. I think this years game is going to take that to a whole new level.

[CJay]

What happened to the thread titled "[FRC Twitter] 2014 Game Hint 2" with a thread ID of 123822 ? It just up and vanished within the last hour. No signs of it being merged. Did I solve the poem correctly, and thus it was deleted? I put a considerable amount of time into my post, and ow it is gone. :( They're conspiring against us...

That was my post, I deleted it because it seems as if that was not actually a hint. I realized that it is more likely just referring to the blog post that is being discussed on this thread. Sorry for taking it down with no explanation...

[Andrew Lawrence]

If FRC is the varsity sport for the mind, isn't every year a sport?

Game Hint Enthusiasts: 0 - GDC: 1

[TurretPunchLove]

I'd bet on ice hockey; the trend of assists and sports in the game hint have led us to this, and we still have 1963 in the game hint. We still have the 2009 Doctor Who clip, which was from a somewhat lunar-related challenge. I'm thinking ice hockey is the most likely simply because of the references that seem to point towards lunacy (ice surface?) and the trend in sports within the given hint.

[kk_4849]

I wouldn't be too sure on that... that would make it so that one team just sits there and has balls dumped into their trailer and I don't think the GDC would want that to happen.

That's where I can see "assisting" coming into play. We'd have to pass things to each other.

[DampRobot]

My guess: some sort of "the best of FRC" style game, alla 2004, where 2012's basketballs, 2010's soccer balls, and 2009's moon rocks are all game pieces.

[peronis]

Woody just posted this huge thing on coopertition for this year. thought id throw that out

Where was this posted?

[DavisC]

Could make the objects large enought that each trailer can hole like 2-3 and have a place on the ends where they can be dumped

[atucker4072]

That's where I can see "assisting" coming into play. We'd have to pass things to each other.

I don't see how teams would assist each other in this case. Could you explain it better?

[malanis]

Where was this posted?

I remember seeing it on Facebook when i woke up this morning, might be nothing.

[Anthony4004]

What happened to the thread titled "[FRC Twitter] 2014 Game Hint 2" with a thread ID of 123822 ? It just up and vanished within the last hour. No signs of it being merged. Did I solve the poem correctly, and thus it was deleted? I put a considerable amount of time into my post, and ow it is gone. :( They're conspiring against us...

What was your solution?

[Michael Corsetto]

2009's moon rocks are all game pieces.

I'd estimate there are barely enough moon rocks in existence to stock a 2009 field. To say those we're "hard to find" would be putting it lightly, and even if you did have some, they broke if a strong gust of wind passed through the room. I'm pretty sure they were discontinued? Regardless, those will go down in history as one of the worst game pieces ever.

[kk_4849]

If you google, you find that Wayne Gretzky (a hockey player) holds the record for the most assists (1,963 total).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Gretzky

[malanis]

I'd estimate there are barely enough moon rocks in existence to stock a 2009 field. To say those we're "hard to find" would be putting it lightly, and even if you did have some, they broke if a strong gust of wind passed through the room. I'm pretty sure they were discontinued? Regardless, those will go down in history as one of the worst game pieces ever.

we still have a full robot full:3

[The_ShamWOW88]

May have nothing to do with physically assisting with a score or pass in the traditional sense but they might be planning something particular for Autonomous mode or the game itself that requires assistance from the camera or some other means rather than just suggesting it.

Just some thoughts.

[Anthony4004]

FRC is almost at the point of spectator sport. the games are becoming more "fun to watch" because the more interesting it is, the more people who want to get involved. I think this years game is going to take that to a whole new level.

I SOOO agree with this. After all, at the Championship Dean was very adamant about how he so happy to see how much the word has gotten out to people over the last year about FIRST. After all, they even made the new award for Will for Making It Loud.

[Jarren Harkema]

All the dates and links to sports still don't explain the numbers after the colons in each of the 3 number sets...

Edit: Well, ok, so the numbers by themselves reference different things related to sports, but none are related, and they aren't related to the date they are paired with.

[malanis]

All the dates and links to sports still don't explain the numbers after the colons in each of the 3 number sets...

Edit: Well, ok, so the numbers by themselves reference different things related to sports, but none are related, and they aren't related to the date they are paired with.

.... they are the number of assists those people had.

[JohnSchneider]

All the dates and links to sports still don't explain the numbers after the colons in each of the 3 number sets...

Edit: Well, ok, so the numbers by themselves reference different things related to sports, but none are related, and they aren't related to the date they are paired with.

The birth date of the player who holds the record for assisnts + ":" + The record for number of assists in that sport

The colon implies relationship whereas the "/" made it a ratio

[kk_4849]

Wayne Gretzky, a hockey player born on 1/26/1961, holds the record for total assists made (1963 total).

[billylo]

Air Hockey?

- with three zones, just like ice hockey
- with three pucks;
- with three teams on each alliance

Air Hockey is great, because it's very fast paced. Maybe on teflon sheets?

[Jarren Harkema]

Get it now, sorry for my slowness.

[mrnoble]

Go to work for a few hours, and this is what happens.

Nice work, those of you who figured out the "assist" clue. I've been all pumped about trying to find ways to get our robot below 90 lbs this year; I guess that won't be a problem now (or will it?).

I just hope they don't bring back the mandatory wheels! "Regolith" (or cheap bathroom panelling) was nasty, but more importantly, many of us gambled on not taking the KOP this year. If it's just about gear boxes and c-channel, fine, but if there is a MANDATORY part that we just won't have unless we order it (all at the same time, just like 2009), that will be hell.

I'm still leaning toward baseball rather than hockey. And if it's hockey, may it be with carpet and a wheeled puck! I want to use Colsons!

[atucker4072]

Air Hockey?

- with three zones, just like ice hockey
- with three pucks;
- with three teams on each alliance

Air Hockey is great, because it's very fast paced. Maybe on teflon sheets?

It would probably be regolith. They used it in 2009.

[Anthony4004]

It would probably be regolith. They used it in 2009.

There were SO many problems with regolith that they would have to be insane to use it again.

[jlmcmchl]

Ignore post; It has been solved on page 1.

[atucker4072]

Back to assists... what are ways that robots would assist each other to score?

[Anthony4004]

Back to assists... what are ways that robots would assist each other to score?

Having to "send" the game pieces to other robots due to a location limit. Then the last robot will score.

[The_ShamWOW88]

Maybe it will be one large central game piece the two alliances will have to pass to each other before scoring, as in no "un-assisted" goals?

[JohnSchneider]

Having to "send" the game pieces to other robots due to a location limit. Then the last robot will score.

Oh look we have 2 box bots on our alliance, we get to score 0 points

;)

I doubt the GDC will ever allow for a game in which scoring cannot be accomplished by 1 robot...

[Zeromonkey]

There have been many instances of robots helping each other in the past, within alliances as well. Remember Rack 'n' Roll? Teams had to lift their alliance partner up in endgame.
2012 we had to share a bridge (A very exciting and competition-changing thing, remember, FIRST likes the excitement)
There have been other instances of Coopertition in the past. I am sure that is what the assisting refers to, either Coopertition between alliances or within an alliance.

[atucker4072]

Oh look we have 2 box bots on our alliance, we get to score 0 points

;)

I doubt the GDC will ever allow for a game in which scoring cannot be accomplished by 1 robot...

This is what I was thinking would be an issue. Maybe they would bring back trailers? That way you could somewhat avoid that scenario.

[JohnSchneider]

There have been many instances of robots helping each other in the past, within alliances as well. Remember Rack 'n' Roll? Teams had to lift their alliance partner up in endgame.
2012 we had to share a bridge (A very exciting and competition-changing thing, remember, FIRST likes the excitement)
There have been other instances of Coopertition in the past. I am sure that is what the assisting refers to, either Coopertition between alliances or within an alliance.

Since the GDC is a year ahead of the game, This game would be the first developed with information from the surveys after rebound rumble. Coopertition being back is definitely a strong and almost likely possibility.

[Justin Montois]

Since the GDC is a year ahead of the game, This game would be the first developed with information from the surveys after rebound rumble. Coopertition being back is definitely a strong and almost likely possibility.

I think you're absolutely right. We can continue to speculate for fun but I think the game hint points to coopertition coming back. And that's it.

[Zeromonkey]

That's a great point. That would make sense too because this year in Ultimate Ascent we didn't see Coopertition.
2012 was the debut, the test of Coopertition again.

[atucker4072]

Since the GDC is a year ahead of the game, This game would be the first developed with information from the surveys after rebound rumble. Coopertition being back is definitely a strong and almost likely possibility.

So coopertition comes back what ways could they make it happen?

[tickspe15]

If it is a hockey game i think that they will have it more closely resemble field hockey. Regolith was a nightmare that i don't think anybody wants again. Also field hockey uses small ball fitting with the ball-not ball pattern

[Zeromonkey]

So coopertition comes back what ways could they make it happen?
That would depend completely on what the rest of the game is like.
We won't do bridges, that's for sure.
Maybe an FTC-like thing? In FTC this year we have a pendulum that we score in and if it is balanced we get extra points, a 50% bonus to be precise.
Uhmm...
Both sides lifting an assumed heavy object?
A tug-of-war scenario? Where the center needs to be parallel to the ground?
(I am literally just coming up with random ideas here, I'm not considering the plausibility of them)
A high place they need to work together to get to?

[thursam]

I think you're absolutely right. We can continue to speculate for fun but I think the game hint points to coopertition coming back. And that's it.

I must have missed something somewhere. Which hint suggested Coopertition coming back, and what exactly is Coopertition?
Ultimate Ascent was my rookie year, so I'm a bit behind on some stuff.

Edit: I know what Coopertition is, but what is it in relation to the game? A bonus of some kind?

[malanis]

Everyone keeps throwing out hockey with the idea that it HAS to be ice hockey or air hockey. this is FRC, the game is never the exact same thing as the sport it may be based off. There is a chance it could use a small rubber ball instead of a puck, or, only use small elements of hockey, like small netted goals on either end. it could easily be played on carpet, it doesnt have to be a slick surface.

[kk_4849]

That would depend completely on what the rest of the game is like.
We won't do bridges, that's for sure.
Maybe an FTC-like thing? In FTC this year we have a pendulum that we score in and if it is balanced we get extra points, a 50% bonus to be precise.
Uhmm...
Both sides lifting an assumed heavy object?
A tug-of-war scenario? Where the center needs to be parallel to the ground?
(I am literally just coming up with random ideas here, I'm not considering the plausibility of them)
A high place they need to work together to get to?

So would the Coopetition come at the "end game"?

[atucker4072]

That would depend completely on what the rest of the game is like.
We won't do bridges, that's for sure.
Maybe an FTC-like thing? In FTC this year we have a pendulum that we score in and if it is balanced we get extra points, a 50% bonus to be precise.
Uhmm...
Both sides lifting an assumed heavy object?
A tug-of-war scenario? Where the center needs to be parallel to the ground?
(I am literally just coming up with random ideas here, I'm not considering the plausibility of them)
A high place they need to work together to get to?

This is what I was going for. Just getting ideas flowing and connecting them to other hints.

[Anthony4004]

I must have missed something somewhere. Which hint suggested Coopertition coming back, and what exactly is Coopertition?
Ultimate Ascent was my rookie year, so I'm a bit behind on some stuff.

Edit: I know what Coopertition is, but what is it in relation to the game? A bonus of some kind?

Assist is the hint which lead to coopertition. That is working together for a benefit usually. in 2012 both alliances had to balance on a bridge for coopertition points, which give you a better seat for qualification.

[thursam]

Assist is the hint which lead to coopertition. That is working together for a benefit usually. in 2012 both alliances had to balance on a bridge for coopertition points, which give you a better seat for qualification.

That's what I thought, but I wasn't entirely sure. Thank you for clarifying.

[Justin Montois]

I must have missed something somewhere. Which hint suggested Coopertition coming back, and what exactly is Coopertition?
Ultimate Ascent was my rookie year, so I'm a bit behind on some stuff.

Edit: I know what Coopertition is, but what is it in relation to the game? A bonus of some kind?

Coopertition was an aspect of the game where you had to work with your opponent in order to gain an advantage.

In 2012, There was a bridge used in the qualification rounds that if you balanced on it with a member of the opposing alliance it was worth the same amount of ranking points as winning the match. So a team that went 10-0 but never balanced could theoretically be ranked the same as a team that went 5-5 but balanced with an opponent in every match.

For reference, the 2012 game animation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOXsdhZZSdM

[Anthony4004]

That's what I thought, but I wasn't entirely sure. Thank you for clarifying.

no problem :)

[Zeromonkey]

I must have missed something somewhere. Which hint suggested Coopertition coming back, and what exactly is Coopertition?
Ultimate Ascent was my rookie year, so I'm a bit behind on some stuff.

Edit: I know what Coopertition is, but what is it in relation to the game? A bonus of some kind?
If you refer back to the first page in the thread, they found out that the hint most likely refers to assisting.
You will soon learn all about the ethos of FIRST, Sam.
Coopertition is up there with Gracious Professionalism as important in FIRST. Coopertitin means "Cooperative Competition". Or, in other words, it means to be competitive and cooperative at the same time. In 2012, Rebound Rumble, the game contained a series of bridges down the center of the field (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOXsdhZZSdM) each with different colors. As the animation will explain, the middle, white bridge was the "Coopertition Bridge" that the two alliances would work together on. You did not get any extra match points for going on the Coopertition Bridge, but rather qualification points, which in most cases decided the outcome of regionals.
Coopertition is the idea that working together will benefit both sides of the competition. This is an idea that FIRST seemed to like since it made a big difference in the competitions.
Are you all caught up now?

[magnets]

I may be totally wrong, but I'm pretty sure nobody has gotten it yet. I think the three things are three ratios. Maybe they're unit conversions or game piece dimensions, but I don't think assists are the hint.

[peronis]

so i agree with hockey, or field hockey. Now for the endgame.... I do think the water bottles/staircase/ramp thing from the original thread is important. And the word 'point' in the poem. Also the assisting hint. If I put them together a cool thing would be a capture the flag sort of end game. One robot would have to lift a bridge by wedging itself under the ramp (ramp, staircase clues) in order for another one (assisting) to get up to the flag (point). Perhaps the flag would be on a 2nd layer, or tier of the field.

[Zeromonkey]

So would the Coopetition come at the "end game"?
I would presume that it would come at the end of the game, but that is just looking at the dynamics of Rebound Rumble. The endgame was a chance for an alliance to either benefit just themselves or help themselves and the other alliance. I came up with ideas that could occur at the endgame, there are other ways we could assist during a game however

[atucker4072]

I may be totally wrong, but I'm pretty sure nobody has gotten it yet. I think the three things are three ratios. Maybe they're unit conversions or game piece dimensions, but I don't think assists are the hint.

I agree but we can only get so close and the assist idea is the closest we have gotten because it matches both hints.

[malanis]

I may be totally wrong, but I'm pretty sure nobody has gotten it yet. I think the three things are three ratios. Maybe they're unit conversions or game piece dimensions, but I don't think assists are the hint.

They said it would be so obvious when we see it. it would be extremely easy to see. and thats what we have now

[Zeromonkey]

I may be totally wrong, but I'm pretty sure nobody has gotten it yet. I think the three things are three ratios. Maybe they're unit conversions or game piece dimensions, but I don't think assists are the hint.
Note what Frank said, "
61474:135, 12661:1963, 32662:15806

From what I've seen on CD, folks are trying far too hard on this. Once you get the answer, it will be so obvious I expect some reactions like this*:"

(I included the hint just for a refresher for those at this end of the thread)

Maybe the assisting was what they were going for, and we have just been over-complicating it, second-guessing ourselves.
Or maybe we are all completely wrong :P
I have to agree with atucker though.

[atucker4072]

Note what Frank said, "
61474:135, 12661:1963, 32662:15806

From what I've seen on CD, folks are trying far too hard on this. Once you get the answer, it will be so obvious I expect some reactions like this*:"

(I included the hint just for a refresher for those at this end of the thread)

Maybe the assisting was what they were going for, and we have just been over-complicating it, second-guessing ourselves.
Or maybe we are all completely wrong :P
I have to agree with atucker though.

A few minutes after this thread started we came up with a new idea and have been rolling with it and we have actually gotten a little ways...

[Anthony4004]

A few minutes after this thread started we came up with a new idea and have been rolling with it and we have actually gotten a little ways...

But we still have not linked the game hint with the poem yet, which will give us a much better idea.

[atucker4072]

But we still have not linked the game hint with the poem yet, which will give us a much better idea.

The blog says we should be able to find it just just using the numbers. So that said let's focus on that.

[Bill_B]

The principal value of the game hints for the GDC appears to be to generate a flurry of FRC -based discussion about what could be possible in a future game. I'm only sure you are wrong if you think that any idea(s) posted here will be completely ignored in the creation of some future game. Relation or validity with respect to the upcoming game need only be tangential with some nebulous tie-in to be useful as idea bait for us. So look at all the neat stuff people have proposed. What you might do is look at game hint discussions that preceded games by two or three years to see if any ideas from them were incorporated in some way.

[Zeromonkey]

But we still have not linked the game hint with the poem yet, which will give us a much better idea.
"First game hint we thought was so tame
It surely will point to the game
But so far no luck
CD's run amok
Much clearer is this one we claim"
Just to give you some information on Limericks.
The 1st, 2nd, and 5th lines rhyme.
The 3rd and 4th lines rhyme.
The 1st, 2nd, and 5th lines have 3 stressed syllables.
The 3rd and 4th lines have 2.

Have a party with it!

[atucker4072]

"First game hint we thought was so tame
It surely will point to the game
But so far no luck
CD's run amok
Much clearer is this one we claim"
Just to give you some information on Limericks.
The 1st, 2nd, and 5th lines rhyme.
The 3rd and 4th lines rhyme.
The 1st, 2nd, and 5th lines have 3 stressed syllables.
The 3rd and 4th lines have 2.

Have a party with it!

Let's keep this focused and not jump all over the place...

[XaulZan11]

So would the Coopetition come at the "end game"?

I think it would be pretty cool if they did it during the autonomous mode. Maybe if a robot for each alliance drives to a circle in the middle of the field, both alliances receive an autonomous bonus (maybe 18 points if last year). It was still be extremely benifical for both alliances to attempt it (as autonomous could be the first tie-breaker) and easy enough that any robot that can drive can do it (maybe veteran teams would work with their rookie partners to program their autonomous modes so the veterans could do more elaborate auto modes like the 7 disc autonomous). Plus, it wouldn't be quite as important as it was in 2012, which many complained about.

[thursam]

If you refer back to the first page in the thread, they found out that the hint most likely refers to assisting...

I know what Coopertition and Gracious Professionalism are - I just wasn't sure how they applied to competition games. In terms of scoring, and stuff.
Thank you all for clarifying. :)

-

The format of the numbers seems to be an analogy. I know that someone converted them to dates, and got the assist theory that way, but has anyone tried converting them into words?
I know it's a long shot, but anything is possible, right?

[atucker4072]

I think it would be pretty cool if they did it during the autonomous mode. Maybe if a robot for each alliance drives to a circle in the middle of the field, both alliances receive an autonomous bonus (maybe 18 points if last year). It was still be extremely benifical for both alliances to attempt it (as autonomous could be the first tie-breaker) and easy enough that any robot that can drive can do it (maybe veteran teams would work with their rookie partners to program their autonomous modes so the veterans could do more elaborate auto modes like the 7 disc autonomous). Plus, it wouldn't be quite as important as it was in 2012, which many complained about.

I feel like this would be doable but it would not be that great of an idea because of having contact with other robots with no human interaction.

[nicholsjj]

I went to google and googled "tame game claim hockey" and came up with this site from 2010. http://www.iihf.com/fi/channels10/iihf-world-championship-wc10/news/news-singleview-world-championship/browse/4/recap/4643.html?tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=2534&cHash=7a59361586

[rahulbekal]

The first hint is
"8234/57, 61126/1963, 62326/15806"
3/4/82 is Landon Donovan's birthday and he had 57 assists in MLS.
1/26/61 is Wayne Gretzky's birthday and had 1963 assists in NHL.
3/26/62 is John Stockton's birthday and had 15806 assists in NBA

The second hint
Steve Ralston, born 6-14-74, holds the MLS record for assists: 135.

Wayne Gretzky, born 1-26-61, holds NHL record for career assists: 1963.

John Stockton, born 3-26-62, holds the NBA assists record: 15806.

The only difference is that FIRST GDC realized that Ralston had more assists than Donovan, so had to change the clue.

[DampRobot]

The first hint is
"8234/57, 61126/1963, 62326/15806"
3/4/82 is Landon Donovan's birthday and he had 57 assists in MLS.
1/26/61 is Wayne Gretzky's birthday and had 1963 assists in NHL.
3/26/62 is John Stockton's birthday and had 15806 assists in NBA

The second hint
Steve Ralston, born 6-14-74, holds the MLS record for assists: 135.

Wayne Gretzky, born 1-26-61, holds NHL record for career assists: 1963.

John Stockton, born 3-26-62, holds the NBA assists record: 15806.

The only difference is that FIRST GDC realized that Ralston had more assists than Donovan, so had to change the clue.

Boom. That's probably it.

[SteveGPage]

2010 - MLS inspired.
2012 - NBA inspired.
2014 - NHL inspired?

Water game - well, a frozen water game! :)

[thursam]

Boom. That's probably it.

I honestly can't see anything else that the hints would lead to.
And since we've connected assists to coopertition, I don't really see anything else to do - unless we focus on the FakeGDC's 'Game Name' hint.

[Gregor]

I honestly can't see anything else that the hints would lead to.
And since we've connected assists to coopertition, I don't really see anything else to do - unless we focus on the FakeGDC's 'Game Name' hint.

Do you seriously think FakeGDC released anything useful?

EDIT: and there goes my promise to myself to not post in this thread.

[atucker4072]

I honestly can't see anything else that the hints would lead to.
And since we've connected assists to coopertition, I don't really see anything else to do - unless we focus on the FakeGDC's 'Game Name' hint.

I think it is funny how people started talking about a twitter parody. It was like really they are FAKE GDC.

Edit: If you don't believe they even said that they were oj the West Coast

[zacube]

Anyone else notice the Lunacy wheels and floor on the Fake GDC twitter account...? That seems to correspond with hockey pretty well... I may be completely wrong though and it could be sheer coincidence.

[Gregor]

Anyone else notice the Lunacy wheels and floor on the Fake GDC twitter account...? That seems to correspond with hockey pretty well... I may be completely wrong though and it could be sheer coincidence.

FAKEGDC ISN'T REAL.

[Scott_4140]

The confusion on the first set of numbers comes from the following link:

http://www.ussoccer.com/teams/us-men/records/alltime-leaders.aspx


Goal Scorers

Name Goals Caps Era
1. Donovan, Landon 57 154 2000-2013


Assists

Name Assists Caps Era
1. Donovan, Landon 57 154 2000-2013

Since they are both 57, one of them may be wrong. That is why they the DGC said they can't confirm.

[atucker4072]

FAKEGDC ISN'T REAL.

Thank you!!!!

[brrian27]

The first hint is
"8234/57, 61126/1963, 62326/15806"
3/4/82 is Landon Donovan's birthday and he had 57 assists in MLS.
1/26/61 is Wayne Gretzky's birthday and had 1963 assists in NHL.
3/26/62 is John Stockton's birthday and had 15806 assists in NBA

The second hint
Steve Ralston, born 6-14-74, holds the MLS record for assists: 135.

Wayne Gretzky, born 1-26-61, holds NHL record for career assists: 1963.

John Stockton, born 3-26-62, holds the NBA assists record: 15806.

The only difference is that FIRST GDC realized that Ralston had more assists than Donovan, so had to change the clue.

Donovan had 57 assists with US Soccer, which is the most. However that's not a league, it's an international team, so using the MLS record makes much more sense!

Source: http://www.ussoccer.com/teams/us-men/records/alltime-leaders.aspx (Scroll down to where it lists assists)

[kk_4849]

Has anybody figured out the significance of the poem?

[brrian27]

Also, I don't think the poem that they tweeted actually means anything. I think it's just referring to the blog post that came after, and saying "Okay, the first hint was hard. We'll clarify it with the next one."

The assist idea really is the way to go, I think. Some sort of Coopertition. Hmmmm

[zacube]

My apologies. They seem to have some insight at times. As I said, I could be completely wrong and it could be complete coincidence. It would appear that I am.
Thank you!!!!

[Electronica1]

The first hint is
"8234/57, 61126/1963, 62326/15806"
3/4/82 is Landon Donovan's birthday and he had 57 assists in MLS.
1/26/61 is Wayne Gretzky's birthday and had 1963 assists in NHL.
3/26/62 is John Stockton's birthday and had 15806 assists in NBA

The second hint
Steve Ralston, born 6-14-74, holds the MLS record for assists: 135.

Wayne Gretzky, born 1-26-61, holds NHL record for career assists: 1963.

John Stockton, born 3-26-62, holds the NBA assists record: 15806.

The only difference is that FIRST GDC realized that Ralston had more assists than Donovan, so had to change the clue.

So it is baseball because that is the only sport that has assists that they did not list (well that and water polo but I think baseball makes more sense)

[kk_4849]

So it is baseball because that is the only sport that has assists that they did not list (well that and water polo but I think baseball makes more sense)

I agree. A hockey game would be too close to Lunacy.

[Scott_4140]

Has anybody figured out the significance of the poem?
The Limerick seems to refer to the clarifications in the number clue.

The data format change from Year-Month-Day to Month-Year-Day. They put it in a format more commonly used in the United States.

Changing from "/" to ":" also helps to show a relationship vs. an operand.

[Libby K]

Woody just posted this huge thing on coopertition for this year. thought id throw that out

One of my teachers always says that there is no such thing as a coincidence.

Coopertition is one of the core tenets of FIRST, not (necessarily) a game element.

http://www.usfirst.org/aboutus/gracious-professionalism

Also, **Woodie.

----

Editing, because I had something to add as I continued reading the thread.

Anything that isn't released AS A HINT isn't worth analyzing. As Frank said in his post, you're all trying to hard. "There are no game clues in this photo" means THERE ARE NO GAME CLUES IN THIS PHOTO. Focus on the actual hints released and not on the peripheral social media posts. (Especially those not posted by actual FIRST accounts...Lookin' at you, @FakeGDC!)

For the most part, FIRST's social media accounts are run by separate staff from FRC/Game Design - the posts like the kickoff-filming photo and the limerick are for fun, not to throw people off or add more things to analyze to the already-ridiculous frenzy on CD.

Exhibit A:

Has anybody figured out the significance of the poem?

It's a twitter post. It's not a hint.

[Tom Line]

3 Separate zones on the field. Robots may not cross zones. Dividers separate the zones to prevent robot passage, but allow the game pieces to move between zones, very similar to breakaway.

And these:

http://www.fatbraintoys.com/toy_companies/plasmart/the_carpet_puck_single_pack.cfm?source=google_pla&kwid=PL028&gclid=CPH09uqH2bsCFYg-MgodYiQA_Q

[atucker4072]

Coopertition is one of the core tenets of FIRST, not (necessarily) a game element.

http://www.usfirst.org/aboutus/gracious-professionalism

Also, **Woodie.

----

Editing, because I had something to add as I continued reading the thread.

Anything that isn't released AS A HINT isn't worth analyzing. As Frank said in his post, you're all trying to hard. "There are no game clues in this photo" means THERE ARE NO GAME CLUES IN THIS PHOTO. Focus on the actual hints released and not on the peripheral social media posts. (Especially those not posted by actual FIRST accounts...Lookin' at you, @FakeGDC!)

For the most part, FIRST's social media accounts are run by separate staff from FRC/Game Design - the posts like the kickoff-filming photo and the limerick are for fun, not to throw people off or add more things to analyze to the already-ridiculous frenzy on CD.

Exhibit A:



It's a twitter post. It's not a hint.

I also think it is funny that people are still thinking there is something to do with Dr . Who. The blog post clearly said there is nothing involving Dr . Who.

[Abhishek R]

I also think it is funny that people are still thinking there is something to do with Dr . Who. The blog post clearly said there is nothing involving Dr . Who.

Wasn't very clear. His message keeps repeating, so don't know if Dr Who is a hint or not until you find the limit of the function at the end of the repeating series.

Looks like the clue takes some calculus to solve.

[mrmummert]

For those of you who think this might be hockey based....there are pucks made for playing on carpet....

http://www.thesimtecstore.com/thecarpetpuckdoublepack.aspx

[Gregor]

For those of you who think this might be hockey based....there are pucks made for playing on carpet....

http://www.thesimtecstore.com/thecarpetpuckdoublepack.aspx

Can you not see 3 posts ahead of yours, or am I just imagining it?

[atucker4072]

We still need to focus on the assist part because it is the closest thing we have. What sports are there assists in? Who is the all time assist leader out of any sport?

[nicholsjj]

Has anybody figured out the significance of the poem?

My method was to "simply" google the rhyming words +hockey to connect with my guess of hockey,mentioned in an earlier post in the thread, but I think Libby is right on this one.

I would guess that the game is divided into three hockey zones, by some obstacle, that each member of the individual alliance has to stay in for the main portion of the match or occur an "off-sides" technical foul. I'm guessing it will be a lot like breakway as far as the auto and main game go. Teams will probably not be able to "collect and shoot" the game pieces like the last two years. I think that the end game will be a lot like Rack n roll such that each zone having a lifted robot will receive bonus points and the middle being "somewhat" like 2012, no sure what but something will change a bit. For eliminations having two lifted robots will be even more bonus points.
I'm going to laugh at how wrong I am after kickoff, but it is fun to speculate. :D

[thursam]

Do you seriously think FakeGDC released anything useful?

EDIT: and there goes my promise to myself to not post in this thread.

FakeGDC has released some legitimate hints in the past.
And would you really put it past FIRST to NOT do something like FakeGDC?

[Gregor]

FakeGDC has released some legitimate hints in the past.


Like?

[Abhishek R]

I would be somewhat disappointed to have a Breakaway-like field. I like the open spaces with fast moving robots (2011, 2013 come to mind) much better. It just feels very limiting with these kind of barriers and obstructive to a game.

[Libby K]

FakeGDC has released some legitimate hints in the past.
And would you really put it past FIRST to NOT do something like FakeGDC?

https://31.media.tumblr.com/d07105f36c30e97a2a72e041955d8be8/tumblr_inline_my38ldUHEu1rg0g8s.gif

Nope. Nope nope nope nope nope nope. Not even a little bit.

FakeGDC is not a FIRST account. FIRST only puts official releases through @FIRSTweets, @FRCteams (and other program accounts) and the FRC blog.

Seriously, stop.

[mrmummert]

oops...i went right to the last page in the thread (i had read the others earlier) Tom Line has a
link for a carpet puck, but not the link i posted and thats three ahead of mine.

[thursam]

Like?

If you just look at their past tweets, even if they seem like general comments, they have a correlation to the game. Like 'thanks for the assist.'
I don't know. I'm probably just grasping for straws at this point - and probably succumbing to the pre-insanity of the season.

[Jay O'Donnell]

If you just look at their past tweets, even if they seem like general comments, they have a correlation to the game. Like 'thanks for the assist.'
I don't know. I'm probably just grasping for straws at this point - and probably succumbing to the pre-insanity of the season.

@FakeGDC is run by a FIRST student simply being amused by the pre-kickoff insanity and making fun of it. He knows as much about this years game as anyone else. The only things you can think of as game hints come from official FIRST sources (as Libby stated).

[atucker4072]

Let's get back on track yeah?

[Libby K]

If you just look at their past tweets, even if they seem like general comments, they have a correlation to the game. Like 'thanks for the assist.'
I don't know. I'm probably just grasping for straws at this point - and probably succumbing to the pre-insanity of the season.

You have no idea if their comments have a correlation to THE GAME. It hasn't been released yet.

They connect to the current theories on the GAME HINT, because it's a parody account based on the ludicrous theories on Chief. As in, it's a joke.

[Gregor]

I'm probably just grasping for straws at this point.

That's the only correct thing you've said so far.

[zacube]

Agreed
Let's get back on track yeah?

[thursam]

@FakeGDC is run by a FIRST student simply being amused by the pre-kickoff insanity and making fun of it. He knows as much about this years game as anyone else. The only things you can think of as game hints come from official FIRST sources (as Libby stated).

Like I said, I'm probably just grasping at straws - I blame a lack of sleep and an obsessive curiosity.

[atucker4072]

So we have a solid idea that the hint is pointing at assists. How can we connect this to better make out the game? Maybe names of people that are assist leaders? Then connecting there name with the game?

[Bryan Herbst]

Perhaps the "assists" are not pointing to another coopertition element (in which the two opposing alliances need to work together), but a true assist element.

Maybe we will need to pass a game element between two robots to score.

[atucker4072]

Perhaps the "assists" are not pointing to another coopertition element (in which the two opposing alliances need to work together), but a true assist element.

Maybe we will need to pass a game element between two robots to score.

Possibly but this leaves one robot out of the picture.

[Electronica1]

What if their is a game element so big, that it takes two robots to push it (and only one robot from each alliance can enter the zone to push it during endgame).

[thursam]

The only assist leaders we have right now are the three record holders in soccer, baseball, and hockey - and I'm not really aware of an assist 'leader'.

There is always the Joe Montana theory that someone came up with.

And a teammate of mine just mentioned this - what if 'watergame' is just figurative? Like we're using the water, we're not IN the water?

[atucker4072]

The only assist leaders we have right now are the three record holders in soccer, baseball, and hockey - and I'm not really aware of an assist 'leader'.

There is always the Joe Montana theory that someone came up with.

And a teammate of mine just mentioned this - what if 'watergame' is just figurative? Like we're using the water, we're not IN the water?

Not that I don't want a water game and I hope that there is sometime but at the moment using water with the current control system is not that great of an idea. Just one slip up and a teams season is ruined.

[Bryan Herbst]

Possibly but this leaves one robot out of the picture.

Not necessarily. To me, that is like saying that scoring a goal in soccer or basketball leaves the rest of the team out.

I'm imagining passing a ball, or two robots pushing one object together. The third robot could be defending, getting another piece, or performing another challenge (since FRC games always have multiple ways to score).

[thursam]

Not that I don't want a water game and I hope that there is sometime but at the moment using water with the current control system is not that great of an idea. Just one slip up and a teams season is ruined.

And that was my teammate's concern. He's the electrical engineer in the group, and when I told him the theory, he freaked out. But he also said that if there was a minor element of water - like if only a portion of the field is water or there is a slight water element.

Like if you have to fish balls out of a small pool in the center of the field or something. It's purely speculation, but it's what he thinks.

[atucker4072]

Not necessarily. To me, that is like saying that scoring a goal in soccer or basketball leaves the rest of the team out.

I'm imagining passing a ball, or two robots pushing one object together. The third robot could be defending, getting another piece, or performing another challenge (since FRC games always have multiple ways to score).

This seams reasonable. Just trying to get better information and making stuff more viable!

[Jay O'Donnell]

The problem I see with the idea if having assisting or passing of some sort between teammates means that you have to rely on getting good teammates in qualifications. As any FIRSTer knows, there's always that match where you are the only robot who is able to do anything, and this that could screw over a really good team simply because of luck of the draw.

[atucker4072]

And that was my teammate's concern. He's the electrical engineer in the group, and when I told him the theory, he freaked out. But he also said that if there was a minor element of water - like if only a portion of the field is water or there is a slight water element.

Like if you have to fish balls out of a small pool in the center of the field or something. It's purely speculation, but it's what he thinks.

I still don't think that at the current time there could be even that. Just too much risk. I could see them in the future making upgrades and special products to use small amounts of water.

[PrimeRib]

For those looking for a possible connection between the poem/rhyme the GDC recently released and this updated game hint for verification if you are still weary of the hint relating to "Assisting," here is one possible solution. In the poem it states, "Much clearer is this one we claim." If you look at the overall meaning of it and what the GDC was trying to do rather then trying to decipher or analyze it for some deeply hidden clue which is what the GDC said to avoid by stating that people are trying to hard, you see that the GDC is trying to help us, in other words they're trying to "Assist" us. It is only a possible connection, not certain.

[atucker4072]

For those looking for a possible connection between the poem/rhyme the GDC recently released and this updated game hint for verification, here is one possible solution. In the poem it states, "Much clearer is this one we claim." If you look at the overall meaning of it and what the GDC was trying to do rather then trying to decipher or analyze it for some deeply hidden clue which is what the GDC said to avoid by stating that people are trying to hard, you see that the GDC is trying to help us, in other words they're trying to "Assist" us. It is only a possible connection, not certain.

And this is why we should be focusing on the assist part now...

[apples000]

I don't think that we'll see to much coopertition or working together too much. Balancing on the bridge in 2012 wasn't that difficult, you just needed a driving robot and somebody to tip the bridge toward you, yet it was painful to watch crazy good teams like 254 waste a minute of their match in order to attempt (then fail) their coopertition balance. It really can bring down the game.

FIRST received negative feedback on cooperating with a simple game element, I doubt the whole game will be about assisting and working together. Think about 2010, with robots hanging from robots. We only saw that a few times the whole season!

[bduddy]

In all three sports the hint deals with, an "assist" is only recorded by the actual passing of a game piece from one player to another. As difficult as it may have been in the past, I really do think that is probably what the GDC is going for this year.

[atucker4072]

I don't think that we'll see to much coopertition or working together too much. Balancing on the bridge in 2012 wasn't that difficult, you just needed a driving robot and somebody to tip the bridge toward you, yet it was painful to watch crazy good teams like 254 waste a minute of their match in order to attempt (then fail) their coopertition balance. It really can bring down the game.

FIRST received negative feedback on cooperating with a simple game element, I doubt the whole game will be about assisting and working together. Think about 2010, with robots hanging from robots. We only saw that a few times the whole season!

It still would be nice to see it brought back in my opinion. It brings a whole new element to the match and can be very exciting. Just because 254 couldn't do it that well doesn't mean much. Teams should have realized that it ment something and should have designed robots to easily accomplish the relatively easy task. That is the reason lots of teams struggled at regionals, they didn't know how to coopertate.

[brrian27]

I don't think any game would rely purely on having a teammate assist you. As others have said, you might not have another functioning robot on your alliance!

However, assisting might help you in the game. So it's something that one team could do alone in a pinch, but is much easier for multiple teams to do together.

[Abhishek R]

I can see coopertition, but nothing too big. If you can't win a match with just one robot, then it's not a good game.

What I mean is if there is some sort of restriction (i.e. the game piece must be passed to each team on the alliance) and one team is incapable of performing the task, that means the alliance loses at no fault of the teams who were capable.

I don't think I'm explaining myself clearly.

[DampRobot]

It still would be nice to see it brought back in my opinion. It brings a whole new element to the match and can be very exciting. Just because 254 couldn't do it that well doesn't mean much. Teams should have realized that it ment something and should have designed robots to easily accomplish the relatively easy task. That is the reason lots of teams struggled at regionals, they didn't know how to coopertate.

254 could do it quite well, and realized the value of co-oping early on. However, as Cory is spotlighted as saying, "it sucked because you not only had to depend on your partners being good, but your opponents too."

Your opponents not only had to have a working drivetrain, but a coach that recognized when it was time to balance, decently competent drivers, the foresight to coordinate with the opposing alliance, and the maturity to not decide to botch a balance in order to tank a teams rankings.

[atucker4072]

I can see coopertition, but nothing too big. If you can't win a match with just one robot, then it's not a good game.

What I mean is if there is some sort of restriction (i.e. the game piece must be passed to each team on the alliance) and one team is incapable of performing the task, that means the alliance loses at no fault of the teams who were capable.

I don't think I'm explaining myself clearly.

I get it and it makes sense. I would think coopertition in this case would be similar 2012 were the alliances could work together and not hurt their alliance.

[magnets]

254 could do it quite well, and realized the value of co-oping early on. However, as Cory is spotlighted as saying, "it sucked because you not only had to depend on your partners being good, but your opponents too."

Your opponents not only had to have a working drivetrain, but a coach that recognized when it was time to balance, decently competent drivers, the foresight to coordinate with the opposing alliance, and the maturity to not decide to botch a balance in order to tank a teams rankings.

I agree that the 2012 win-is-as-valuable-as-coopertition-balance system was flawed, and that it has the ability to turn into people saying "I only lost because my opponents were worse than yours", but I do think some sort of cooperating would be nice, especially in the elimination rounds. It shouldn't be the only way of scoring, but I think it could work out nicely, if done right.

[apples000]

It still would be nice to see it brought back in my opinion. It brings a whole new element to the match and can be very exciting. Just because 254 couldn't do it that well doesn't mean much. .

I think it does.

254 did it to the best ability possible of any team, as did all the other competitive teams, and still failed to be effective.

If teams like 254, 1114, etc... don't do it right, then something is not right with the game. Somewhere there's a match where 254 is making basket after basket, crossing the field, avoiding defense, and having one of the most entertaining matches of Rebound rumble I've ever seen, then with 1:15 left, drives up to the coopertition bridge, attempts balancing with a team completely unable to balance, and at the end of the match, doesn't have a balance, and looses, because they didn't score for more than half of the match. They get 0 qualifying points for the match.

[atucker4072]

I agree that the 2012 win-is-as-valuable-as-coopertition-balance system was flawed, and that it has the ability to turn into people saying "I only lost because my opponents were worse than yours", but I do think some sort of cooperating would be nice, especially in the elimination rounds. It shouldn't be the only way of scoring, but I think it could work out nicely, if done right.

Yeah and this brings up a good point. Is it possible to have a good coopertition system so some teams don't end up loosing either way?

There is also the point that maybe teams should have spent too much time trying to coopertate. If they realized it wasn't going to happen they should have gone back to scoring for their own alliance.

[thursam]

I agree that the 2012 win-is-as-valuable-as-coopertition-balance system was flawed, and that it has the ability to turn into people saying "I only lost because my opponents were worse than yours", but I do think some sort of cooperating would be nice, especially in the elimination rounds. It shouldn't be the only way of scoring, but I think it could work out nicely, if done right.

Coopertition has actually been a huge part of all the FRC competitions, even if it isn't on field. Last season, my team had a big issue with our programming, and our pit neighbors were more than happy to help us. Though we didn't make it past qualification, we were (and still are) extremely grateful for their help.

The way coopertition ties into the game would be a big part of it, as well. I think the easiest way to tie it in would be in a hockey-esque game. Someone did mention earlier that they make carpet pucks.

[apples000]

Yeah and this brings up a good point. Is it possible to have a good coopertition system so some teams don't end up loosing either way?

There is also the point that maybe teams should have spent too much time trying to coopertate. If they realized it wasn't going to happen they should have gone back to scoring for their own alliance.

That was the problem with 2012. Teams didn't go back to scoring, because winning would give them 2 qualifying points, balancing would give them 2 qualifying points, but they really needed 4 qualifying points (balance and win) in order to play in elims.

With some tweaking, a coopertition system would work. It's not a flawed concept, in fact, it's a great idea, but 2012 was a flawed implementation.

[atucker4072]

Well back to this year any other things that have to do with assist and any other connections from other small hints?

[Abhishek R]

If teams like 254, 1114, etc... don't do it right, then something is not right with the game.

That's not true at all...

If you went to the bridge with 1:15 left and then ended up losing the match, you didn't have a good enough lead at that point in the match to allow you to attempt the bridge. Winning should've been priority, then the coop bridge.

While the bridge was flawed, I don't think you can go far enough to say "if blank team couldn't do it then there's something wrong." Many teams were able to complete the bridge and win the match.

Plus you have a match schedule with who you're playing against. Why not talk to the opposing teams in advance for true coopertition?

[atucker4072]

That's not true at all...

If you went to the bridge with 1:15 left and then ended up losing the match, you didn't have a good enough lead at that point in the match to allow you to attempt the bridge. Winning should've been priority, then the coop bridge.

While the bridge was flawed, I don't think you can go far enough to say "if blank team couldn't do it then there's something wrong." Many teams were able to complete the bridge and win the match.

Correct it was a matter of strategy and planning. It wasn't something that you could just be like we are going to try an coopertate with you. It was more than that.

So back to the hint.

[Anthony4004]

I just wanted to state that I am surprised by this for co-op. In michigan, at the regionals we went to last year we never saw any co-op fail.......wow.

[EricH]

I just wanted to state that I am surprised by this for co-op. In michigan, at the regionals we went to last year we never saw any co-op fail.......wow.

I'm going to say this only once:

-In BOTH the years there have been coopertition points that affected the ranking, those ranking systems were almost universally hated, and there was a distinct spike in playing to lose, or playing to deny X. (2010, 2012) I remember hearing that some teams couldn't get a coop balance in 2012 to save their lives, hardly--and some of it was intentional.

-In the year where coopertition points affected barely anything (2011), almost nobody practiced coopertition.

-In 2008, something similar to coopertition was applied, in that blowing out your opponents negatively affected your potential points in your next match. Mixed results in terms of liking. But IF FRC ever goes back to having coopertition points, I'd want to see something like this, where working with your opponent to score/keep the game close gives bonus (and/or coopertition) points and blowouts give negative bonus/coopertition points.

[heisenburger]

Does the 25% weight sign still pop up with the new numbers?

[Anthony4004]

I'm going to say this only once:

-In BOTH the years there have been coopertition points that affected the ranking, those ranking systems were almost universally hated, and there was a distinct spike in playing to lose, or playing to deny X. (2010, 2012) I remember hearing that some teams couldn't get a coop balance in 2012 to save their lives, hardly--and some of it was intentional.

-In the year where coopertition points affected barely anything (2011), almost nobody practiced coopertition.

-In 2008, something similar to coopertition was applied, in that blowing out your opponents negatively affected your potential points in your next match. Mixed results in terms of liking. But IF FRC ever goes back to having coopertition points, I'd want to see something like this, where working with your opponent to score/keep the game close gives bonus (and/or coopertition) points and blowouts give negative bonus/coopertition points.


I didn't think it had been that bad. Thanks for the insight. Also, I like that idea of negative co-op.

[Anthony4004]

Does the 25% weight sign still pop up with the new numbers?

Technically yes, however it was never a strong theory due to the back searching from GDC. After all, Frank said that we got way off track.

[Ryanmiller]

Look at the games section

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIRST_Robotics_Competition

:ahh:

[Electronica1]

Look at the games section

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIRST_Robotics_Competition

:ahh:

And the FakeGDC strikes again (according to the edit history)

[roboryan]

anybody could create a wikipedia account though and edit any page it really isn't that hard probably just some person trying to be funny

[Harveythellama]

It's taken down now

[Anthony4004]

There isn't anything wrong with the games section....

[bearbot]

It was taken down

[magnets]

That's not true at all...

If you went to the bridge with 1:15 left and then ended up losing the match, you didn't have a good enough lead at that point in the match to allow you to attempt the bridge. Winning should've been priority, then the coop bridge.

While the bridge was flawed, I don't think you can go far enough to say "if blank team couldn't do it then there's something wrong." Many teams were able to complete the bridge and win the match.

Plus you have a match schedule with who you're playing against. Why not talk to the opposing teams in advance for true coopertition?

Many teams were able to win and balance, including 254, many times. I am quite positive that 254 talked and discussed the strategy for balancing before the match. You say that winning should have been the priority. Why? It was worth the same as the co-op balance.

What I think is wrong is that 254's bridge balancing and coopertitioning (or coopertating?) skills didn't change from match to match, but their scores did. In some matches, they may have been able to spend only 20 seconds balancing, but in others, they could not have the ability to balance at all. In this sense, their qualifying points do not correlate to the teams ability. I can be the greatest bridge balancer in the world and have opponents who don't have the ability (or choose not to) go on the bridges, win 10 matches, balance zero, and end up with 20 qualification points. Then, I could be a very average robot, with an average bridge skill, and end up with great balancing partners and at the end of the day balancing 7 out of 10 times, and winning 5 matches out of ten, with a total of 24 qualification points. The average team wins, the great team looses. There's no correlation between points and robot ability.

In the match, 254 knew that in order to be in picking position, they needed to balance and win, and they knew that if they gave up balancing, they gave up picking. So, they tried to balance. In the end, they were picked anyway.

[Anthony4004]

Never mind. I see someone already fixed it.

[Whippet]

Never mind. I see someone already fixed it.

Just for future reference, the edited version(by a user called fakegdc) is located here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=FIRST_Robotics_Competition&oldid=588458069

[Christian751]

Many teams were able to win and balance, including 254, many times. I am quite positive that 254 talked and discussed the strategy for balancing before the match. You say that winning should have been the priority. Why? It was worth the same as the co-op balance.

What I think is wrong is that 254's bridge balancing and coopertitioning (or coopertating?) skills didn't change from match to match, but their scores did. In some matches, they may have been able to spend only 20 seconds balancing, but in others, they could not have the ability to balance at all. In this sense, their qualifying points do not correlate to the teams ability. I can be the greatest bridge balancer in the world and have opponents who don't have the ability (or choose not to) go on the bridges, win 10 matches, balance zero, and end up with 20 qualification points. Then, I could be a very average robot, with an average bridge skill, and end up with great balancing partners and at the end of the day balancing 7 out of 10 times, and winning 5 matches out of ten, with a total of 24 qualification points. The average team wins, the great team looses. There's no correlation between points and robot ability.

In the match, 254 knew that in order to be in picking position, they needed to balance and win, and they knew that if they gave up balancing, they gave up picking. So, they tried to balance. In the end, they were picked anyway.


Very true, My team talked with 254 before our match and successfully preformed a balance.

[Gregor]

You say that winning should have been the priority. Why? It was worth the same as the co-op balance.


Because winning gives 3 teams 2QP, whereas cooping gives 6 teams 2QP. If your option is winning OR cooping, you chose winning because it boosts less people in the ranks, while still giving you the same QP.

[Nemo]

I don't think any game would rely purely on having a teammate assist you. As others have said, you might not have another functioning robot on your alliance!

However, assisting might help you in the game. So it's something that one team could do alone in a pinch, but is much easier for multiple teams to do together.

I agree with this general concept. I can picture something like, say, an area that takes some time to get in and out of, but if you can just stay in the middle and throw game pieces out of there, it's faster to score as a two robot job.

I can't picture a good way to make passing game elements between robots figure into the scoring. I wouldn't want to make the referees responsible for keeping track of each time a game piece is passed between robots.

[magnets]

Because winning gives 3 teams 2QP, whereas cooping gives 6 teams 2QP. If your option is winning OR cooping, you chose winning because it boosts less people in the ranks, while still giving you the same QP.

Yeah, but it's not GP to stop halfway through your coop balance and go score more points and win.

Return of "un-GP" :rolleyes:

[Gregor]

Yeah, but it's not GP to stop halfway through your coop balance and go score more points and win.

Return of "un-GP" :rolleyes:

Alas, there lies the problem with 2012.

[atucker4072]

The all time assist leader in hockey is Wayne Gretzky. Maybe the game element is a stick?

[dellagd]

To talk about the (seldom discussed) football theory, in one of the behind the design FRC videos, one member of the GDC said another always comes in with a football and is like "I have the next game piece everyone!" every year. So it is a possibility.

That being said, I still think its gonna be hockey. How they're pulling that one off I have no idea.

Also:
The all time assist leader in hockey is Wayne Gretzky. Maybe the game element is a stick?
A little late to the party, are ya?

[Pendulum^-1]

EDIT: before I get slapped down again, here is the most coherent explanation I could find on the number sequence:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1318570&postcount=143

Explains the first and second sequence, and why they differ.

************************************************** *************************

Getting back to the Game Hint:

Anyone post any thoughts with regards to the anagram of the first and second set of numbers?

Initial Set 12/20/2013:
8234/57, 61126/1963, 62326/15806

Second Set, 12/30/2013:
61474:135, 12661:1963, 32662:15806

Two numerical anagrams are presented:
1) 61126 and 12661 (paired by : and / with the 1963 number)
2) 62326 and 32662 (paired with 15806)

Not that I know what the exact significance of that would be, just thought I'd mention it, as I've not seen any comments on it. (And I've not read all 200+ posts to this point.)

Is the anagram itself a clue? Or just the reformatted update......

[Jay O'Donnell]

Getting back to the Game Hint:

Anyone post any thoughts with regards to the anagram of the first and second set of numbers?

Initial Set 12/20/2013:
8234/57, 61126/1963, 62326/15806

Second Set, 12/30/2013:
61474:135, 12661:1963, 32662:15806

Two numerical anagrams are presented:
1) 61126 and 12661 (paired by : and / with the 1963 number)
2) 62326 and 32662 (paired with 15806)

Not that I know what the exact significance of that would be, just thought I'd mention it, as I've not seen any comments on it. (And I've not read all 200+ posts to this point.)

Is the anagram itself a clue? Or just the reformatted update......
You should probably read the thread. This has already been solved. Summary: the numbers have something to do with assisting in various sports. This is just like kickoff, read everything BEFORE you post!

[atucker4072]

To talk about the (seldom discussed) football theory, in one of the behind the design FRC videos, one member of the GDC said another always comes in with a football and is like "I have the next game piece everyone!" every year. So it is a possibility.

That being said, I still think its gonna be hockey. How they're pulling that one off I have no idea.

Also:

A little late to the party, are ya?

Actually no... I was pointing it out for two reasons 1.) To get people back on track and 2.) To relate my idea to the hint.

It is a possibility thay he could have a bunch of sticks around his house.

[secondrobotix]

I believe this game has to do with Lincoln logs. Yes Lincoln logs I said it. Canon me crazy but you will all see in time. :D :o

[dellagd]

Actually no... I was pointing it out for two reasons 1.) To get people back on track and 2.) To relate my idea to the hint.

It is a possibility thay he could have a bunch of sticks around his house.
Ouch - I was making a joke out of the way you phrased it :P

Anyway I think those carpet pucks would be a much more... intuitive gamepiece than a stick since it would be weird to play a hockey based game with the hockey equipment rather than the hockey gamepiece.

That being said, manipulating a stick as a gamepiece seems difficult. I hope thats not it!

[secondrobotix]

The all time assist leader in hockey is Wayne Gretzky. Maybe the game element is a stick?

Nope you're wrong.

[Pendulum^-1]

OK, another shot at the whole Game Hint speculation. Quote:

"*Doctor Who is not a hint. I just happen to enjoy the show.

[Please don’t take my saying Doctor Who is not a hint to mean it really is a hint. It’s really not a hint]

[[Please don’t take my saying Doctor Who really is not a hint to mean it really really is a hint. It’s really really not a hint]]

[[[etc]]]"

Ok, so let's assume that Doctor Who is NOT the hint. Is it reasonable to say that Doctor "Whos" is a hint? (Gramatically, the plural should probably be "Doctors Who*." But this is the GDC, and this is just a Game Hint.) We've now had two very explicit references to two distinctly different Doctors. And the whole denial string is likely an imitation of the campy time travel/time looping inherent in any episode featuring everyone's favorite (alien) Time Lord. And the Doctor Whos hint is even emphasized again with the etc at the end, which is typically translated out of Latin (et cetera) as "and so forth." Indicating repetition. Which is what Doctor Who does in nearly every episode.

If the hint is "Whos," then Whos on FIRST could be back in play, I would think. It would be more than a little crazy to have a permutation of a baseball game, featuring wiffle balls thrown at targets.

*Based upon the plural of Attorney General is Attorneys General, not Attorney Generals.

[atucker4072]

Ouch - I was making a joke out of the way you phrased it :P

Anyway I think those carpet pucks would be a much more... intuitive gamepiece than a stick since it would be weird to play a hockey based game with the hockey equipment rather than the hockey gamepiece.

That being said, manipulating a stick as a gamepiece seems difficult. I hope thats not it!

Yeah I should have put that better... so much for English

[mman1506]

My guess is a hockey game using carpet pucks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sZWupgRoAs) for shooting and a barrier will be on the arena to discourage scoring without passing.

[secondrobotix]

YOU GUYS ARE ALL WRONG!!! the numbers can be translated into Chinese and then back into English they OBVIOUSLY mean something else. You get the numbers 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 etc... This is Fibonacci's code! Anyone who is anyone can figure that out! It's elementary! SO it means that the game is... LINCOLN LOG CONSTRUCTION!!! #easy

[rkbot]

I can see coopertition, but nothing too big. If you can't win a match with just one robot, then it's not a good game.

What I mean is if there is some sort of restriction (i.e. the game piece must be passed to each team on the alliance) and one team is incapable of performing the task, that means the alliance loses at no fault of the teams who were capable.

I don't think I'm explaining myself clearly.


Maybe something where cooperation is a choice, could be the end game but maybe something where you can feed your teammates something during the match to minimize travel time or something?

[atucker4072]

YOU GUYS ARE ALL WRONG!!! the numbers can be translated into Chinese and then back into English they OBVIOUSLY mean something else. You get the numbers 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 etc... This is Fibonacci's code! Anyone who is anyone can figure that out! It's elementary! SO it means that the game is... LINCOLN LOG CONSTRUCTION!!! #easy

How exactly would that work out? Would it work with the previous set of numbers as well? The assist idea works with both. We shouldn't shoot down every idea that one person thinks is wrong. We need to filter out the obvious wrong answers and solidify the ones that are possible.

[MetalJacket]

YOU GUYS ARE ALL WRONG!!! the numbers can be translated into Chinese and then back into English they OBVIOUSLY mean something else. You get the numbers 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 etc... This is Fibonacci's code! Anyone who is anyone can figure that out! It's elementary! SO it means that the game is... LINCOLN LOG CONSTRUCTION!!! #easy

I realize this is probably a joke but just in case, I think this might be an example of people overthinking the hint ... just maybe

[dellagd]

I think the best cooperation scenario is a task that is quite difficult to do as a single robot, but less difficult to do to a degree. Maybe something where a basket (or multiple) has to be filled to a certain weight before something drops/unlocks. One robot can fill the whole thing but its easier to do with two robots.

[Abhishek R]

You say that winning should have been the priority. Why? It was worth the same as the co-op balance.

Because winning gives 3 teams 2QP, whereas cooping gives 6 teams 2QP. If your option is winning OR cooping, you chose winning because it boosts less people in the ranks, while still giving you the same QP.

Exactly this.

You want to boost yourself, not everyone. If everyone moves up 2 spots in the rankings, yes you went up 2 ranks, but so did everyone else, so your overall relative rank hasn't changed (theoretically assuming there was no ceiling to the ranks).

[Calvin Hartley]

OK, another shot at the whole Game Hint speculation. Quote:

"*Doctor Who is not a hint. I just happen to enjoy the show.

[Please don’t take my saying Doctor Who is not a hint to mean it really is a hint. It’s really not a hint]....

RANT WARNING :o (Pendulum^-1, please do not take this personally. :) )

Okay. I see where you are coming from, and believe me it is a good thought. But... seriously? Frank specifically stated that it is NOT a hint! In fact, he stated that three times! While I applaud your sleuthing, I really really really want to trust Frank on this. Do you really think that he would cloak the hint in such deception? He specifically said that we are over thinking all of this. Let's stop over thinking, and focus on the actual hint. Not the Doctor Who references,* not the Fake GDC twitter feed,** and not the Kickoff filming photo.***

Rant over. Sorry for my unnecessarily long-winded post. I do not intend to direct this at anyone in particular. I think I'm just finally venting.... Let's get back to the hint now, shall we?

*Frank did say that he's simply a fan of the show, after all.
**The humor is awesome, but let's not take it was anything more than that.
***It specifically says "There is no game clue in this photo"

[Pendulum^-1]

RANT WARNING :o (Pendulum^-1, please do not take this personally. :) )[/SIZE]

Fair enough.

[JohnSchneider]

Exactly this.

You want to boost yourself, not everyone. If everyone moves up 2 spots in the rankings, yes you went up 2 ranks, but so did everyone else, so your overall relative rank hasn't changed (theoretically assuming there was no ceiling to the ranks).

Depending on the situation, sometimes it might benefit some lower seeds to prioritize giving middle seeds ranking points. It can force middle teams into the top and create scorched earth scenarios which benefit lower ranked teams.

:)

[Caleb Sykes]

I agree with this general concept. I can picture something like, say, an area that takes some time to get in and out of, but if you can just stay in the middle and throw game pieces out of there, it's faster to score as a two robot job.

I can't picture a good way to make passing game elements between robots figure into the scoring. I wouldn't want to make the referees responsible for keeping track of each time a game piece is passed between robots.

I think that game piece passing could be plausible if there were a small number of game elements. We have had 12+ smallish game pieces for a long time, it might be kind of fun to deal with 6 or fewer larger game pieces again like in 2008.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

I like this Frank guy. Anyone who posts a gif of David Tennant gets a thumbs up in my book.

[DonRotolo]

....so, um, Green isn't the answer? :mad:

tl;dr: Did anyone parse the original hint numbers using the same theory (:assists: ) to see what they got?

[mrnoble]

If "assists" are a major component, and "hockey" is the inspiration, the GDC doesn't need to go through anything so complicated as dividing the field into three zones, with robots restricted to each zone and therefore encourage passing. They could just do something like:

Scoring increases with each "assist" pass. Low goal (or single robot touching the ball/puck/whatever)=1 point. Middle goal (or two robots touch the game piece)=3 points. High goal (or all three robots touch)=9 points.

Or something like that.

[mrnoble]

....so, um, Green isn't the answer? :mad:

tl;dr: Did anyone parse the original hint numbers using the same theory (:assists: ) to see what they got?

Yes, the difference was a reversal of day/month, I think. There was also the issue with Landon Donovan's number of assists being in question.

[Abhishek R]

If "assists" are a major component, and "hockey" is the inspiration, the GDC doesn't need to go through anything so complicated as dividing the field into three zones, with robots restricted to each zone and therefore encourage passing. They could just do something like:

Scoring increases with each "assist" pass. Low goal (or single robot touching the ball/puck/whatever)=1 point. Middle goal (or two robots touch the game piece)=3 points. High goal (or all three robots touch)=9 points.

Or something like that.

Yeah...I'm just wondering how they would keep track of robots passing game pieces to each other.

What they could do is that would be a viable and effective strategy to get around defense, otherwise you double-team the bot with the puck forcing them to pass or lose control of the puck.

Sounds like fun, now that I think about it. More defense and more opportunities to evade defense = more excitement.

[mrnoble]

Yeah...I'm just wondering how they would keep track of robots passing game pieces to each other.

What they could do is that would be a viable and effective strategy to get around defense, otherwise you double-team the bot with the puck forcing them to pass or lose control of the puck.

Sounds like fun, now that I think about it. More defense and more opportunities to evade defense = more excitement.

Keeping track wouldn't be that hard, I think. I went to an Avs game last night, and it was generally easy to keep track of who had the puck.

The more I think about it, the more I like this idea. If one goal of the GDC is getting teams to cooperate, what better way to get high-level teams to reach out to rookies and teams with weaker bots? They would have to work well together, especially off the field, in order to ensure all the bots had a touch.

[crism18]

Guys i figured it out. Olmec from The Legend of the Hidden Temple will be our guide.
-note I'm joking, don't take it seriously
Thanks!

[Abhishek R]

Keeping track wouldn't be that hard, I think. I went to an Avs game last night, and it was generally easy to keep track of who had the puck.

I know it's not that hard, but that leaves it open to human error of the referees. If they aren't paying attention for a few seconds, it could cause swings in the score.

Imagine wall passes - pass the puck to a rookie team who may not be able to score, but then you swing back around and pick it up from them on the other side...whoa...

[atucker4072]

Nope you're wrong.

Because I'm sure that you know the game and all the rules to go with it? You can't tell people that they are just wrong when you don't know for yourself.