View Full Version : The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game
alextac98
14-01-2014, 22:58
I honestly think that its all because of those full-court shooters last year. Maybe this year is an "In your face" challenge, so to say, from FIRST. Also, you have to remember that next year, there is the new RoboRio that is comming out. Maybe this year was a filler year so they can test the new controller out. But personally, a secret end game would totally make the year :yikes:
I know, I know, Frank said it wouldn't happen. But how do you explain the sudden appearance of this new game piece?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q74/s720x720/1522163_10151816381161816_1835063631_n.jpg
-dave
.
Jay O'Donnell
17-01-2014, 16:40
I know, I know, Frank said it wouldn't happen. But how do you explain the sudden appearance of this new game piece?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q74/s720x720/1522163_10151816381161816_1835063631_n.jpg
-dave
.
So the reason the pedestals are green is because they represent the pigs and we have to knock them down with the angry birds ball! It all makes sense now!
I know, I know, Frank said it wouldn't happen. But how do you explain the sudden appearance of this new game piece?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q74/s720x720/1522163_10151816381161816_1835063631_n.jpg
-dave
.
Dave, you're instigating again....
I know, I know, Frank said it wouldn't happen. But how do you explain the sudden appearance of this new game piece?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q74/s720x720/1522163_10151816381161816_1835063631_n.jpg
-dave
.
We have to knock down the truss with the ball! It all makes sense now!
waialua359
17-01-2014, 16:54
I've been so busy (well, who isnt?) that I missed the 1/10 blog that confirms NO endgame!
Then I read further down about the story behind having 4 team alliances for eliminations at CMP.
I am glad Frank reads CD!!!!!!!:)
Kristian Calhoun
17-01-2014, 16:56
I know, I know, Frank said it wouldn't happen. But how do you explain the sudden appearance of this new game piece?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q74/s720x720/1522163_10151816381161816_1835063631_n.jpg
-dave
.
C'mon Dave, we don't need to give the GDC even more crazy ideas (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/31986)... :rolleyes:
C'mon Dave, we don't need to give the GDC even more crazy ideas (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/31986)... :rolleyes:
That's fantastic!
I know, I know, Frank said it wouldn't happen. But how do you explain the sudden appearance of this new game piece?
A Lavery--not going to guess which--with an airbrush... or maybe MissInformation up to some old tricks.
First isn't technically buying these- they're being rented. Saves cost all around, and the technicians at most district tournaments are experienced playing around with that exact stuff.
End part missed? :mad:
http://i.imgur.com/HRPAtvG.jpg
It seems very much.
Also, we’re just about ready to reveal that secret end game folks have been talking about (and we’ve been denying). Just kidding!
Frank
Latest blog post. (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-2014-Week-1)
Dylan_Barton
17-03-2014, 17:32
Team 4269 picked up on this as well. Wonder if it has anything to do with FIRST completely redesigning the 2013 game (Ultimate Ascent), and this was recycled from the original 2013 game. So to make up for lost time, FIRST threw out this generic game with the intention of adding something halfway through the build season.
Just a thought though...
If you really want to see a similar game, I would suggest looking up the 2008 game, Overdrive, as we (2987) found that it is quite similar to Aerial Assist. We have gotten some helpful tricks from game videos of Overdrive, as well as mixing our knowledge of Aerial Ascent last year.
Michael Hill
13-04-2014, 13:50
Still not too late for FIRST to announce a secret end game!
Hear me, FIRST? IT'S NOT TOO LATE.
Still not too late for FIRST to announce a secret end game!
Hear me, FIRST? IT'S NOT TOO LATE.
Maybe we should suggest some: land the ball on the truss - 50 pt bonus.
Caleb Sykes
13-04-2014, 19:54
Maybe we should suggest some:
Last second game-winning truss shots worth 100 points.
Rangel(kf7fdb)
13-04-2014, 20:13
Last second game-winning truss shots worth 100 points.
What's funny is that doesn't change the outcome of the match since its only game winning shots. :D
Last 10 seconds hot goals.
dubiousSwain
13-04-2014, 22:33
Make a goal or truss in the last 10 seconds and get an amount of points based on your team number.
Caleb Sykes
13-04-2014, 22:40
What's funny is that doesn't change the outcome of the match since its only game winning shots. :D
Shhh. That's the secret within the secret endgame.
Last 10 seconds hot goals.
This one is interesting on the surface. May be right in line with a truss-shot bonus in the last 10 seconds.
Not specific to the end game, but for the Championships, truss catches should have their point value raised from 10 points to at least 20.
Not specific to the end game, but for the Championships, truss catches should have their point value raised from 10 points to at least 20.
20 is the max it can be changed to. That said, I expect catches to move up to 15 or 20, but would not be surprised if they stayed the same.
As competition at the FIRST Championship is typically different from that during the competition season, FIRST may alter each scoring value at the FIRST Championship by up to ten (10) points.
PayneTrain
14-04-2014, 11:36
Not specific to the end game, but for the Championships, truss catches should have their point value raised from 10 points to at least 20.
It is the one scoring aspect that is totally out of line with risk to reward. However I don't know if it was intentional or not, like shooting into the pyramid goal last year or climbing up to the third rung in a time longer than 25-30 seconds.
rich2202
14-04-2014, 15:58
End game:
1) Get the other Alliance's ball and shoot it into your hot goal.
2) All the balls are put into play by the Field Personnel, and shots into the Hot Goal are worth x points.
3) One ball of a different color is put into play. The ball can only be bulldozed (can't load the ball into your bot). Score the ball in your low goal for 75 points.
Sorry if this was mentioned in the last 20 pages but. St Louis has a really big arch. Truss/arch? Arch/truss?
JamesTerm
14-04-2014, 16:20
You know... in pinball there was a multi-ball mode... that would be a cool ending... that would be easy to implement... say 2 or 3 balls to score per alliance in the last 15 seconds. :)
pntbll1313
14-04-2014, 17:02
You know... in pinball there was a multi-ball mode... that would be a cool ending... that would be easy to implement... say 2 or 3 balls to score per alliance in the last 15 seconds. :)
Great idea! The refs seem to be standing pretty idle all match so maybe giving them 3 times the balls, possession, and scores to keep track of would help them stay busy :p
rich2202
15-04-2014, 14:36
Sorry if this was mentioned in the last 20 pages but. St Louis has a really big arch. Truss/arch? Arch/truss?
So, for the finals on the Einstein Field, the Truss is replaced by a replica of the St. Louis Arch.
Or,
During the last 30 seconds of a match, a replica of the St. Louis Arch is lowered onto the field. Bots are able to drive onto (and fall off of) the arch. X points for each bot that ends the match on the arch. Bonus points if you shoot a ball into a goal while on the arch.
Qbot2640
15-04-2014, 14:54
A white coopertition ball introduced for the last 30 seconds which gives all alliances on the field an additional 2 quality points if one colored alliance throws it over the truss and the other color catches it.
Before everyone piles on...I'm kidding...just trying to stir up the anti 2012 crowd!
Joe Ross
15-04-2014, 15:22
294 has been practicing and getting ready for the end game.
David8696
22-04-2014, 04:16
Any robot that, in the last 5 seconds of the game, bounces the ball off the truss, catches it, and scores it in the high goal immediately wins Einstein.
cmrnpizzo14
22-04-2014, 07:52
294 has been practicing and getting ready for the end game.
Bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see how this pays off for them.
Not an end game but how about the catch gives you 10 points and a hot goal or something of the sort. Maybe 2x on the base score of the goal (without assists)?
The end game should have been like the golden snitch in quidditch (sp?):
(1) Start with a yellow game piece sitting top center of the truss
(2) It may get knocked off during teleop, but cannot be "manipulated" by either team. Could be a penalty if "clearly" manipulated.
(3) At 20 seconds remaining in teleop, the snitch can be manipulated. Get points for passing if desired like regular game pieces. THEN 50 pts if scored high and 20 pts scored low.
OR
(1) Each alliance can introduce thier own snitch at 20 sec remaining.
(2) Passing points apply, scoring points apply
(3) Both snitches are available to both teams
The snitch option could have significantly changed the strategy as the end game approached. Seeing refs and human players occasionally getting whacked by the regular game pieces sure remind me of the bludgers (sp?).
One can dream. . . .
So I was at the Airport today during a layover on my way to St. Louis when I happened to chance on meeting one of the head refs also headed towards the game.
I related to him the entire controversy regarding the truss and simplified game and all the fun jazz and shenanigans that were listed above, and asked him what his take was on it.
His response?
"This year's game was designed by a different group of people than previously."
That's right. It was actually really interesting; a different group of FRC Staff did the game this year, which was why they reverted from sensor scoring back to ref scoring, and the game 'felt' different. It also explains the lack of an endgame.
As for the truss, he didn't offer a direct answer, but it seems to be that it was designed simply to resist hits as well as be sturdy. It was simply the best thing they had that was available and durable.
Nothing he said indicated the addition of an endgame, or even that an endgame was intended to begin with and later removed. It's just a different design of game made by a different group of designers, and there's nothing to fuss over.
I'll see all y'all in St. Louis tomorrow, and hopefully we can see some great games without climbing! ;)
BBray_T1296
23-04-2014, 01:42
Endgame is revealed! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ&feature=player_detailpage)
DampRobot
23-04-2014, 02:10
I related to him the entire controversy regarding the truss and simplified game and all the fun jazz and shenanigans that were listed above, and asked him what his take was on it.
His response?
"This year's game was designed by a different group of people than previously."
That's right. It was actually really interesting; a different group of FRC Staff did the game this year, which was why they reverted from sensor scoring back to ref scoring, and the game 'felt' different. It also explains the lack of an endgame.
Well, I guess that's the reason why this year went the way it did. Can Frank make sure to get a lot of real FRC vets onto the GDC next year? You know, people that actually know what makes for a good/bad game?
Well, I guess that's the reason why this year went the way it did. Can Frank make sure to get a lot of real FRC vets onto the GDC next year? You know, people that actually know what makes for a good/bad game?If this is true (I find it hard to believe that the group was entirely different, and that nothing was lost in translation between JLiang, this head ref, and whoever he talked to), I think that the "new" and "old" groups can both bring something to the table. Yes, this game has a couple of major flaws, but I don't think anyone can deny that there are other areas where it is strong.
Well, I guess that's the reason why this year went the way it did. Can Frank make sure to get a lot of real FRC vets onto the GDC next year? You know, people that actually know what makes for a good/bad game?
FWIW, I think that other than the problems with reffing and the pedestals this is the best FRC game of recent memory. It's certainly far more interesting than Ultimate Ascent or Rebound Rumble.
FWIW, I think that other than the problems with reffing and the pedestals this is the best FRC game of recent memory.And I would say that the major problem with the reffing was that the refs were understaffed and overworked--and everything was a judgment call.
Now if only there'd been 4-6 scorekeepers and 4-6 refs at each event...
David8696
23-04-2014, 21:10
And I would say that the major problem with the reffing was that the refs were understaffed and overworked--and everything was a judgment call.
Now if only there'd been 4-6 scorekeepers and 4-6 refs at each event...
Apparently, that's just what they're doing this weekend. There'll be 10 refs for each field, with 8 of them active a game. Imo, this game as played at champs will be the best game in FRC history, even better than last year.
StillDefective
28-04-2014, 17:15
Endgame is revealed! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ&feature=player_detailpage)
I should really learn to stop clicking on YT links on CD... :p
Jon Stratis
28-04-2014, 17:17
Well, now that Champs is over, does that mean IRI is going to reveal the true secret end game to us all?
waialua359
29-04-2014, 07:07
So I was at the Airport today during a layover on my way to St. Louis when I happened to chance on meeting one of the head refs also headed towards the game.
I related to him the entire controversy regarding the truss and simplified game and all the fun jazz and shenanigans that were listed above, and asked him what his take was on it.
His response?
"This year's game was designed by a different group of people than previously."
That's right. It was actually really interesting; a different group of FRC Staff did the game this year, which was why they reverted from sensor scoring back to ref scoring, and the game 'felt' different. It also explains the lack of an endgame.
As for the truss, he didn't offer a direct answer, but it seems to be that it was designed simply to resist hits as well as be sturdy. It was simply the best thing they had that was available and durable.
Nothing he said indicated the addition of an endgame, or even that an endgame was intended to begin with and later removed. It's just a different design of game made by a different group of designers, and there's nothing to fuss over.
I'll see all y'all in St. Louis tomorrow, and hopefully we can see some great games without climbing! ;)
Now that the season is over, I will interject here.
This isnt the original game that was intended.
If what you are saying is true about the scoring, I think this year above all others indicate that we need to change/improve it due to the hundreds of missed assist points that alliances did not earn.
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