Reusing brackets of Last Year's FRC Bumpers on this Year's FRC Bumpers

[Sergilove]

Hello, I'm new here. I believe i am posting this thread on the right forum, if this is the wrong forum please direct me to the right one. Thank You.

My team made brackets to attach the bumpers to our FRC Robot last year. Is it in violation of any rules to reuse those brackets from last year on the Bumpers we build this year?

[ChuckDickerson]

Yes, R13.

[MechEng83]

Yes, R13.

Hold on there. I'm not so sure the answer is that simple. Bumpers are clearly not part of the ROBOT as they don't count in the weight limit, nor are they required to be bagged.

If the brackets are attached to the robot frame and not the bumpers, then R13 comes into play. If the brackets are part of the bumper assembly, they're probably ok to use (See R20). To wholesale apply R13 to all bumper parts means that teams are not permitted to use the same set of bumpers from year to year. Several teams would be in violation of this rule if applied this way. I suggest submitting a Q&A on this one.

[Bob Steele]

This is an interesting topic

How many teams out there use batteries from previous years that have already been assembled with the proper connectors?

Probably everyone...

The question needs to be asked regarding whether the exemptions mentioned in R18

At an Event, Teams may have access to a static set of FABRICATED ITEMS that shall not exceed 30 lbs to be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT. Items made at an Event do not count towards this weight limit.

For Teams attending 2-Day Events, these FABRICATED ITEMS may be used during the Robot Access Period and/or brought to the Event, but the total weight may not exceed 30 lbs. FABRICATED ITEMS constructed during the Robot Access Period and bagged with the ROBOT are exempt from this limit.

Items exempt from this limit are:

the OPERATOR CONSOLE,
BUMPERS, and
any ROBOT battery assemblies (as described in R5-A).

are part of the ROBOT as defined in R13 or not. I don't think this has ever been definitely established.

Perhaps we are afraid to ask... if they are part of the robot... then every team would have to re-fabricate their battery assemblies every year.

Is it a question that needs to be asked? Do you want to know the answer?

[AllenGregoryIV]

This topic was brought up this weekend at LRI training and it was very clearly stated that team's driver station and bumpers are not part of their robot and thus do not fall under the restrictions in R13.

Teams may reuse bumpers and driver stations from year to year.

[Christopher149]

I too agree that the topic is interesting, and probably has some grey zones.

857 usually cannibalizes robots for parts and space reasons, but very little to nothing ever gets straight reused from year to year. Aside from some bumper reuse (though they've been cut shorter a few times) batteries, and the driver station, we do have a winch that we made for Breakaway, removed a window motor and added an encoder for Logomotion, and then removed the encoder and built a second one for Ultimate Ascent. Looking at it, last year's may have been skirting the rules a bit. However, there wasn't much design to the winch, and it was disassembled and rebuilt I believe.

<off-topic>"FABRICATED ITEM: any COMPONENT or MECHANISM that has been... or conjured partially or completely..." Wait, we can make things using magic?!?

<more-off-topic>We still have the chassis and treads of our 2004 bot (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/18196), the stylized arm (with the "Michigan Tech" text) from the 2003 bot (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/15132), and fragments of the base from the 2002 bot (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/13495).

[Alan Anderson]

<off-topic>"FABRICATED ITEM: any COMPONENT or MECHANISM that has been... or conjured partially or completely..." Wait, we can make things using magic?!?

No, the rules say that you may use magic. They do not address the specific capabilities of your team.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

There are some specific rules regarding parts and assemblies for the "robot" that do not apply to the bumpers.

As to the use of magic, yes you can use it if and only if the same spells, ingredients and procedures are available to all teams. For instance, eye of newt may be considered a protected item in certain areas or countries. That prevents it's use as it doesn't meet the COTS definition. Also please review the hazardous materials text when assembling your kettle materials, and have MSDS sheets on hand for inspection. Please also check game rules. Pumpkin coach wheels, mice turned into human players and items that vanish after midnight do not meet the intent of this year's game.

[ToddF]

Teams may reuse bumpers and driver stations from year to year.

What!? We have been clearly told that bumper reuse is NOT permitted. I would love for Q/A to say otherwise. Although, I hate to think of all the time we've wasted building bumpers for the past number of years if reusing them is actually permitted.

[AllenGregoryIV]

What!? We have been clearly told that bumper reuse is NOT permitted. I would love for Q/A to say otherwise. Although, I hate to think of all the time we've wasted building bumpers for the past number of years if reusing them is actually permitted.

We were told this was changed as of last season and yes I understand the shock, I was very surprised myself as I have been the one forcing teams to remake bumpers at competition in the past. Overall I think this is a good rule change though.

Obviously what I say is not official and the GDC can change it whenever they like but this is how the rule was explained to the LRIs. Please Q&A it for an official response.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Todd,
Bumpers were removed from the robot definition in 2013. They do not need to be included in the bag, they do not need to be fabricated during the build and they are not included in the 30 lbs. of parts that you may bring to events. You may reuse them year to year, provided they meet all robot rules for the event in which they are used.

[ToddF]

Yay!!!!

[jvriezen]

Todd,
Bumpers were removed from the robot definition in 2013. They do not need to be included in the bag, they do not need to be fabricated during the build and they are not included in the 30 lbs. of parts that you may bring to events. You may reuse them year to year, provided they meet all robot rules for the event in which they are used.

Minor clarification that might be worth noting (Al, you'll surely correct me if I'm wrong..) If you make auxiliary "bumpers" that start inside the frame perimeter and are attached to deployed extensions (e.g. to 'widen' your bot), those are robot parts and have to be built from scratch during build season. -- Of course, bumpers aren't required on such extensions. Nor do they have to follow bumper building rules.

[Pjohn1959]

As to the use of magic, yes you can use it if and only if the same spells, ingredients and procedures are available to all teams. For instance, eye of newt may be considered a protected item in certain areas or countries. That prevents it's use as it doesn't meet the COTS definition. Also please review the hazardous materials text when assembling your kettle materials, and have MSDS sheets on hand for inspection. Please also check game rules. Pumpkin coach wheels, mice turned into human players and items that vanish after midnight do not meet the intent of this year's game.

This is why Big Al is the LEAD Inspector! Always respect his decisions. His knowledge that has been gained over the years is enormous, and he does have the final say...

[MechEng83]

Pumpkin coach wheels, mice turned into human players and items that vanish after midnight do not meet the intent of this year's game.

Are you saying that Cinderella stories would not pass inspection?

[Jon Stratis]

Are you saying that Cinderella stories would not pass inspection?

All Cinderella stories are different, but I think by definition it can't be a Cinderella story until after you've passed :)

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Having been in more than one Cinderella story and certainly invited to the annual balls, it is possible to pass inspection.
John is correct, extensions that leave the frame perimeter do not require bumpers and by definition, would not be called a bumper. As such, those items are required to be built within the build season and they must be in the bag or part of the 30lb. exclusion.

[trcsmith]

Unless you are going to kiss the Inspector when he's finished....:yikes: