FRC Blogged-2014 FIRST Championship – Preliminary Changes to FRC Agenda

[Steven Donow]

http:// http://www3.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-2014-FIRST-Championship-Preliminary-Changes-to-FRC-Agenda

As many of you know, we’re planning to schedule 10 matches for each FRC team at the 2014 FIRST Championship. To do this, we need to extend the qualification match time available.

To support extended match time, we need to make some changes to our traditional agenda. The changes below are preliminary, but are likely to be very close to the final changes we make, and are firm enough for you to incorporate in your initial planning:


Pits will open at 3PM for load-in on Wednesday, April 23
From 3PM-5PM, only 5 representatives from each team will be allowed in the pits to start pit setup, uncrate robots, and start inspections. This two hour period will give us time to start clearing crates while the pits are relatively uncrowded
Inspections will start right after 3PM, as soon as teams are ready
At 5PM, pits will be fully open to all team members
Teams will get their practice matches in Wednesday evening, rather than Thursday morning as they have the last few years
Qualification matches will start early Thursday morning, April 24

As more details are nailed down, I will share them.

Frank

[Nick Lawrence]

Yes!!!

.... poor volunteers.

-Nick

[Michael Corsetto]

Yes!!!

.... poor volunteers.

-Nick

Inspectors, all hands on deck Wednesday evening! :D

-Mike

[s_forbes]

I wonder how long it will be before we start uncrating on the Monday of championship week...

[Anupam Goli]

I wonder how long it will be before we start uncrating on the Monday of championship week...

I feel like we're almost at the point of critical mass. I don't see it being possible to squeeze another day into championship week, and if we add more teams, we certainly won't be able to continue with 10 matches per team.

[Basel A]

I wonder how long it will be before we start uncrating on the Monday of championship week...

It will be easier when the district system is mostly everywhere and FIRST can decrease the size of Championship without under-representing any region (like Michigan was in 2010-2013, arguably 2009 too). That is, if FIRST considers a smaller Championship to be acceptable. I would absolutely be a proponent.

[cgmv123]

They'll probably only have time for one practice match per team.

I feel like we're almost at the point of critical mass. I don't see it being possible to squeeze another day into championship week, and if we add more teams, we certainly won't be able to continue with 10 matches per team.

Cycle times are key. Last year's game had a fairly complex reset, which took time. This year's field should be able to be turned around much faster.

[Koko Ed]

I wonder how long it will be before we start uncrating on the Monday of championship week...

Bring it on!

[Blackphantom91]

I am super excited for this for teams. although the volunteer in me is kinda scared! Oh well to echo koko lets go!

[Thad House]

Wow. I love this change. An easy way to add more matches, without adding too much time. I like it.

[Lil' Lavery]

FIRST continues their full-frontal assault on mentor's vacation days.

[MattC9]

Thankfully with this game there is not a lot that goes into field reset. I can see minimal time in between matches, no getting robots of a tower, bridges, putting balls or frisbees in to certain places. They will be able to quickly turn over matches.

[Chris is me]

FIRST continues their full-frontal assault on mentor's vacation days.

Yup. If I've got to be there at 3 PM on Wednesday, that's another day off for me that I'm not sure I can afford to take. I've come down to volunteer the past two years for inspection but I don't know if I can justify it unless my team qualifies this year.

I'm glad we're getting more matches, but this is going to be one exhausting Championship.

[magnets]

This is nice, but very stressful for teams. The ten matches will really be nice though. Only getting one practice match will be tough, especially when it's on Wednesday. Not all of our team is there on Wednesday, so it'll be tough.

[Richard Wallace]

Inspectors, all hands on deck Wednesday evening! :D
I'll be there, ready to rock and roll. All of us like to play robots, and there is ample data to show that playing more matches helps get the seeding right.

Teams, pay attention to Big Al's inspection thread, and crate your 'bot "inspection ready" if possible. Getting all inspections completed Wednesday evening will challenge both teams and volunteers, but we CAN and WILL get this done.

[Damiaen_Florian]

Did they just say 10 matches? That's such a huge bump up from last year's 8, it could probably ensure that the top 8 is more of teams that deserve there and not gotten by an easy schedule. All these changes seem to be for the better, it amazes me how even though FIRST keeps on growing they still continue to offer more playing time to the teams.

[MikeE]

Did they just say 10 matches? That's such a huge bump up from last year's 8, it could probably ensure that the top 8 is more of teams that deserve there and not gotten by an easy schedule.

I anticipate some schedule variance analysis to appear in this thread fairly soon.

[magnets]

Did they just say 10 matches? That's such a huge bump up from last year's 8, it could probably ensure that the top 8 is more of teams that deserve there and not gotten by an easy schedule. All these changes seem to be for the better, it amazes me how even though FIRST keeps on growing they still continue to offer more playing time to the teams.

We had 10 in 2011 (or 2010, I forget) and had 7 in 09, and 7 years past. This is the highest number we've had in a long time.

[Nemo]

This is a great change. I hope the many who were unhappy with last year's eight matches will acknowledge that this is a very positive step.

If you were unhappy with 8 matches then and now you're unhappy with an earlier start on Wednesday, I guess I don't know what to tell you.

[Lil' Lavery]

If you were unhappy with 8 matches then and now you're unhappy with an earlier start on Wednesday, I guess I don't know what to tell you.

Perhaps they want a smaller championship event?

[Nemo]

Perhaps they want a smaller championship event?

A smaller event would be fine. Of course, then they'd have to qualify fewer teams per event, and I can imagine that some of the same people would have complaints about that as well.

[Nick Lawrence]

A smaller event would be fine. Of course, then they'd have to qualify fewer teams per event, and I can imagine that some of the same people would have complaints about that as well.

Can't make everyone happy.

For the current amount of teams that can qualify for the Championship Event, this is probably the best that we can have for now. I expect we'll go back to a shorter Championship once the District system is fully implemented.

-Nick

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Perhaps they want a smaller championship event?
Or 6 divisions.

[Abhishek R]

Or 6 divisions.

I would prefer that, in the long term moving up to 8 divisions. Of course it's a while before that ever happens, especially finding the space to hold double the fields, pits, and teams, as FIRST is still growing at an extremely fast pace.

[waialua359]

This was predictable given the amount of feedback that teams wanted more matches.
Add to the fact that 32 teams make each divisional playoff, this already is going to be a better championship than last year.

[Lil' Lavery]

Or 6 divisions.

6 divisions and Einstein don't work particularly well together. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1295729&postcount=138)

[Domenic Rodriguez]

A smaller event would be fine. Of course, then they'd have to qualify fewer teams per event, and I can imagine that some of the same people would have complaints about that as well.

Another option FIRST has is the concept of the super regional: an intermediate event between Regionals/District Championships and the World Championship. This allows more teams to advance to a higher level of competition while keeping the number of teams at the world championship lower. They're testing the idea with FTC this year, and if it goes well I wouldn't be too surprised to see it implemented in FRC down the road. Of course, this brings in its own set of complications in terms of event staffing and days off for FRC...

[Abhishek R]

6 divisions and Einstein don't work particularly well together. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1295729&postcount=138)

It's an uncomfortable number for an easy way to play it out, but maybe a round-robin style preliminary would work, though it would add more time to an already long competition. You could do the uneven bracket, the divisions already play each other in a unspecified fashion anyway (meaning Archimedes always plays Curie, there's no specific factor determining this other than the fact that's just how FIRST decided it should be).

[DampRobot]

I'm still waiting for two field divisions... you know, field reset on one while a match is played on the other.

This is really great. A lot of people were really ticked off that they only got 8 matches last year, and FIRST has done a good job of addressing their concerns. Kudos.

[Hallry]

Another option FIRST has is the concept of the super regional: an intermediate event between Regionals/District Championships and the World Championship. This allows more teams to advance to a higher level of competition while keeping the number of teams at the world championship lower. They're testing the idea with FTC this year, and if it goes well I wouldn't be too surprised to see it implemented in FRC down the road. Of course, this brings in its own set of complications in terms of event staffing and days off for FRC...

You mean something like....this? ;)
http://image.slidesharecdn.com/nefirsttownhallmeetingsct-120728072646-phpapp02/95/slide-8-1024.jpg?cb=1343478553

http://i.imgur.com/gUAmXmg.png

I'm still waiting for two field divisions... you know, field reset on one while a match is played on the other.

You mean a total of 9 FRC fields, including FTC/FLL? Never gonna' happen. Chief Delphi's already gone through the argument that there would be no way to fit such an idea after last season.

[rick.oliver]

...

Teams, pay attention to Big Al's inspection thread, and crate your 'bot "inspection ready" if possible. Getting all inspections completed Wednesday evening will challenge both teams and volunteers, but we CAN and WILL get this done.

It would be great if everybody had the opportunity to ensure that their robot was crated "inspection ready". A "Fix-it Window" prior to crating and shipping for World Championships seems like it would enhance the process.

I am very pleased to see the changes; it will significantly enhance the experience. Well done, FIRST FRC.

[Conor Ryan]

I'm pretty positive its still capped at 400 teams, 4 divisions, 10 qualification matches each.

Sorry, Tesla isn't getting a field anytime soon.

For all those interested, the most interesting logistic process at Champs is Load Out and frequently its still happening while everyone is still watching Einstein. Very interesting.

[Alpha Beta]

It would be great if everybody had the opportunity to ensure that their robot was crated "inspection ready". A "Fix-it Window" prior to crating and shipping for World Championships seems like it would enhance the process.

Seems like the next logical step, and one that I could support.

[Richard Wallace]

Inspectors, all hands on deck Wednesday evening! :DIt would be great if everybody had the opportunity to ensure that their robot was crated "inspection ready". A "Fix-it Window" prior to crating and shipping for World Championships seems like it would enhance the process.Seems like the next logical step, and one that I could support.+1.

I would support giving CMP teams some robot access time during which they can run through the inspection checklist and get the 'bot ready to sail through Wednesday.

Frank, can you give it some thought please? :)

[Alan Anderson]

Teams, pay attention to Big Al's inspection thread, and crate your 'bot "inspection ready" if possible.

Theoretically, every robot will already have passed inspection at a prior event. It shouldn't be that hard for a team to put a legal robot in the bag at the end of their last competition before it gets shipped to the Championship.

So why is it that so many robots aren't legal when they come out of the bag once they get there? :confused:

[SteveGarward]

Legal/illegal is different to in need of repair..

[Cory]

Theoretically, every robot will already have passed inspection at a prior event. It shouldn't be that hard for a team to put a legal robot in the bag at the end of their last competition before it gets shipped to the Championship.

So why is it that so many robots aren't legal when they come out of the bag once they get there? :confused:

Regional level inspectors are often fairly lenient in letting things slide that the majority of veteran inspectors at Champs will not let teams off the hook for.

[cgmv123]

Theoretically, every robot will already have passed inspection at a prior event. It shouldn't be that hard for a team to put a legal robot in the bag at the end of their last competition before it gets shipped to the Championship.

So why is it that so many robots aren't legal when they come out of the bag once they get there? :confused:

When in doubt, blame the shipping company.

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Theoretically, every robot will already have passed inspection at a prior event. It shouldn't be that hard for a team to put a legal robot in the bag at the end of their last competition before it gets shipped to the Championship.

So why is it that so many robots aren't legal when they come out of the bag once they get there? :confused:

Most probably are legal but like our team for example, we have made heavy modifications to our robot the first day of championships. This includes using our witholding allowance as well as fabricating new parts and adding them to the robot. As such, the robot weight is different and some parts could be deemed unsafe or out of dimension.

[cadandcookies]

Theoretically, every robot will already have passed inspection at a prior event. It shouldn't be that hard for a team to put a legal robot in the bag at the end of their last competition before it gets shipped to the Championship.

So why is it that so many robots aren't legal when they come out of the bag once they get there? :confused:

Example: Last year Team 2220 cut our robot in half in the first hour or so after uncrating at Championship (not that it was a particularly good idea...)

Probably one our all time worst decisions (right after diung swerve in 2011 without ever practicing, and creating a loader using car tires in 2009).

Still, I suppose theoretically there wouldn't be too many changes...

[Domenic Rodriguez]

You mean something like....this? ;)
http://image.slidesharecdn.com/nefirsttownhallmeetingsct-120728072646-phpapp02/95/slide-8-1024.jpg?cb=1343478553


Yup, that's what I was referencing. I recall FIRST mentioning this is not necessarily the path they will take, but just one option moving forwards.

[Joe Ross]

Has anyone heard anything more on the championship Agenda? There's already almost 100 teams registered, but no team agenda.

The spectator agenda shows matches starting at 9am on Thursday, so I can only assume the rest of the changes in the blog are happening also.