Cycle Time

[pandamonium]

What will the fastest cycle receiving full (Assist, Truss, and Catch) points be?

[z_beeblebrox]

That's an interesting question. Once we get a couple of robots running, I'd like to time various configurations of cycles to get some empirical data.

It is likely possible that you'll get more total points with a faster but lower scoring cycle.

[Bryce2471]

Are you asking about the fastest average cycle time far any alliance? Or are you asking what the fastest full cycle in the entire season will be?

I think the fastest full cycle we will see is going to be 10-15 sec,

[Jibri Wright]

The fastest time: 30secs at best. Probably more. An opposing alliance is smart enough to not let this happen without a fight.

[Wayne TenBrink]

The fastest time: 30secs at best. Probably more. An opposing alliance is smart enough to not let this happen without a fight.

An alliance that puts too much focus on defense is not scoring, at least not with a high assist count. With two of the right robots and a fairly simple third bot, a 60 point cycle is possible in 20-30 seconds. If you can achieve a couple of these cycles, any attempt by the defense to slow you down will prevent them from ever catching up.

[Jibri Wright]

An alliance that puts too much focus on defense is not scoring, at least not with a high assist count. With two of the right robots and a fairly simple third bot, a 60 point cycle is possible in 20-30 seconds. If you can achieve a couple of these cycles, any attempt by the defense to slow you down will prevent them from ever catching up.

You may be right, but when you see you're opponent go for a 60 point cycle, you're gonna send one of your teammates that don't have the ball to to slow it down regardless of score. It's just instinct.

[Pjohn1959]

There will be matches where alliances will be able to complete a 60 point cycle (that's inbound and score) in less than 10 seconds. :yikes:

Defense can be played, but there will be teams that will be ready for it.

[Chris_Elston]

IMHO...

The fastest cycle time will be TWO ROBOTS and ONE defense robot.
10 seconds.

Robot #1 will be parked near the human player right against the side wall.
Robot #2 will be parked along the same side wall near the goal on the other side of the truss.
Robot #3 will be the "defender" that will "check" all other alliance robots.

Human player will give ball to robot #1, more than likely a full court catapult. Robot #2 is a catch robot with a toss into the goal.
2-3 seconds human player load
2-3 seconds robot #1 truss to robot #2 catch
2-3 seconds robot #2 in the goal.

Alignment along the walls will aid in catching and depth perception efficiency. Never dropping the ball will be key to fast cycle times. Dropping the ball and chasing it down will be bad in this game.

This game is about efficiency and cycle times for sure. Who can cycle the fastest with the best partner robot.

10 second cycle never dropping the ball.
2:20 = 14 cycles possible
above points:
20 goal
10 truss
10 catch
40 point cycle times 14 = 560 possible, undefended.

(if you did full assists and truss and catch)
30 second cycle never dropping the ball.
2:20 = 4 cycles possible
60 point cycle times 4 = 240 possible, undefended.

maybe you are better than that..
(if you did full assists and truss and catch)
20 second cycle never dropping the ball.
2:20 = 7 cycles possible
60 point cycle times 4 = 420 possible, undefended.

[magnets]

The elimination rounds are going to have vastly different scores than qualification. When the good teams have a cycle set up, there's no stopping them...

[DMike]

I'm not fully understanding strategy for this game ?? If you are standing still dosn't this make you and easy target for some level of disrupive contact. It would be difficult to accurately long range pass the ball with another bot slamming into you. Or for that matter sit in one spot and lob balls into the high goal. No safe, shooter or loading zones, right? Weaker performing alliances can even things up fairly well with a "Man to Man" style of play. How do you re-open your collector (need be) when another bot has you "covered. In most team sports I have witnessed, the ball is being passed and shot while everyone is moving. Theoretical cycle times might not prove out, no " indefensible, stationary, machine gun" style full court shooters this year.

[Ginger Power]

I'm not fully understanding strategy for this game ?? If you are standing still dosn't this make you and easy target for some level of disrupive contact. It would be difficult to accurately long range pass the ball with another bot slamming into you. Or for that matter sit in one spot and lob balls into the high goal.

This is the trick. There are ways of avoiding defense that you may not be thinking about. If you figure out the ways to effectively evade defense then you will see why this strategy could be viable.

[pandamonium]

If you are flush against a wall or a wall and a goal good luck getting moved.

[Chris_Elston]

If you are flush against a wall or a wall and a goal good luck getting moved.

Exactly. Other than "height" or a blocker.

[Calvin Hartley]

You may be right, but when you see you're opponent go for a 60 point cycle, you're gonna send one of your teammates that don't have the ball to to slow it down regardless of score. It's just instinct.

I have a feeling that not everyone is going to follow instinct and play defense on a high scoring cycle. For example, if you are scoring more/fast than your opponents with your three robots, why send one of them to play defense? I hope teams will know enough to follow a working strategy and not change that based on instinct. If their strategy is NOT working, then defense may be what makes it work. Though I wouldn't consider that instinct.

I would be hesitant to make a blanket statement such as yours, though I do see your point being viable in some cases.

[Ty Tremblay]

A few weeks ago, I made a little tool to calculate estimated score based on which cycle you do. It's not 100% accurate and makes some pretty big assumptions. Feel free to make a copy of it and edit as you wish.

One of the biggest assumptions is that a 50% shooting percentage only gets you 50% the points for that goal per cycle. I'd like to change it so that 50% of your cycles are longer by the X additional seconds it takes to reacquire the ball.

Google Spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApnS2Ay4cThNdC01NUJkMk1OR2U1ODVLWlRNOG93R Xc#gid=0)

Variables are blue, constants are grey, and calculated output is green. Cycle time is used to determine the max number of cycles you can get if you only use that type of cycle. Points are then calculated based on how many cycles you can do. If you want to change a formula, please make a copy of the spreadsheet first (aka, don't change the formulas in this spreadsheet).

[Ty Tremblay]

To answer the question, though, I think we'll see a sub 15 second full cycle (from the time the ball enters the field to the time it's scored) at one point.

[Justin Shelley]

I see several different scenarios for cycling.

#1,2,3 are Championship Elimination Matches
Rest are Regional Matches

1) Perfect alliance of 3 offensive robots that has no defense being played on them. 60 point cycle

10 seconds

2) Above with defense being played on them. 60 point cycle

30 seconds

3) Perfect alliance but one robot keeps alliance members safe 40 point cycle

10 seconds

4) Most Qualification alliances where Defense is not strong 30 point cycle

40 seconds

5) #4 but defense is played

Lucky to get one 40 point cycle in during a match

7) Elimination Match's 3 Offensive Robots- Opponent has 1 member play Defense. 40 point cycle

60 seconds

8) #7 but opponent doesn't play defense 40 point cycle

20 seconds

9) Elimination Match's 2 offensive Robots and one protector/defense robot 30 point cycle

20 seconds

This covers most of the scenarios I can think of. Hope this helps!

[Jibri Wright]

I see several different scenarios for cycling.

#1,2,3 are Championship Elimination Matches
Rest are Regional Matches

1) Perfect alliance of 3 offensive robots that has no defense being played on them. 60 point cycle

10 seconds

2) Above with defense being played on them. 60 point cycle

30 seconds

3) Perfect alliance but one robot keeps alliance members safe 40 point cycle

10 seconds

4) Most Qualification alliances where Defense is not strong 30 point cycle

40 seconds

5) #4 but defense is played

Lucky to get one 40 point cycle in during a match

7) Elimination Match's 3 Offensive Robots- Opponent has 1 member play Defense. 40 point cycle

60 seconds

8) #7 but opponent doesn't play defense 40 point cycle

20 seconds

9) Elimination Match's 2 offensive Robots and one protector/defense robot 30 point cycle

20 seconds

This covers most of the scenarios I can think of. Hope this helps!

I agree completely. I don't know why people think it will be so easy to get a 60 point cycle with defense on them. Just a little defense on say a catcher or shooter can easily change 4 seconds to 12

[tr6scott]

Took Derrick's (in the sheet tab posted) idea that the miss costs you time, and worked out another look at it. The values are my guess as to what we will see up to MSC, then you get into some super-alliances, that will probably blow these times away.

Go ahead and edit if you want, or make comments, what you think about timings.

I added a 2nd col. for the Catch scenarios, the first one is the catch was made, the second is the catch was missed.

I kind of fought with the sheet, coming from excel the google sheet did not dynamically update some formulas as expected, but I think they are right now. Let me know if I something is missed.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7mrwmOc3cnXUVcxTkdNT1ZUX0E&usp=sharing

[Ty Tremblay]

I've added your tab to the original spreadsheet. I meant to say copy the tab, not the entire spreadsheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApnS2Ay4cThNdC01NUJkMk1OR2U1ODVLWlRNOG93R Xc&usp=drive_web#gid=4