Is this Legal? Magnetic A/C clutch, AndyMark gearmotor combo

[Ted Andkilde]

Hi guys

I'm a mentor on 4936, a rookie team from Tecumseh Ontario.

We're trying to finalize our mechanical today :) and I was hoping someone might be able to give me a quick legal/not-legal ruling on our winching rig.

It's an AndyMark gearmotor linked to the 12v clutch from a A/C compressor.

Ignore the wiring, it's just "make it function" stuff, it'll all be rewired with relays and limit switches.

http://www.andkilde.com/edcf/winch.jpg

Thanks, Ted

[protoserge]

Are you electrically actuating the clutch or are you just using the setup as a pure mechanical system? R29 should answer your question.

[colin340]

In the grant scheme not sure, but i know you have to set it up so that your not grounding to the big hunk of car.

i'm rooting for you great use of found parts!

[Ted Andkilde]

Are you electrically actuating the clutch or are you just using the setup as a pure mechanical system?

You have to supply/remove 12v to the clutch to lock/unlock the pulley to the shaft.

Cheers, Ted

[Ted Andkilde]

R29 should answer your question.

I'm just going to try to ping him, does @R29 work to notify on this message board?

Thanks, Ted

[Jon Stratis]

Q&A 144:
Q. Are electric clutches allowed? And if so, can they be run from the solenoid breakout card since they are essentially a fancy solenoid?

A. An electric clutch is considered a solenoid actuator, and thus limited by R29.
https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Question/144/are-electric-clutches-allowed-and-if-so-can-they-be-run-from-the-solenoid-breakout-card-since-they-are-essentially-a-fancy-solenoid

[protoserge]

Q&A 144:

https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Question/144/are-electric-clutches-allowed-and-if-so-can-they-be-run-from-the-solenoid-breakout-card-since-they-are-essentially-a-fancy-solenoid

Beat me to it! That's the only limitation I would see from R29.

The other is R11. Is this part considered COTS? And, if so, does it fall under $400? I am going to look some more to see if I can find something regarding automotive parts reuse. if you can price up the part number

EDIT: I don't have access to the black tote automotive parts recycling product donation voucher. See if it has any wording on this type of item. It may only cover motors, though.

I did find this to be a Volvo S40 compressor, and found one source (http://www.volvopartswebstore.com/products/Volvo/S40/Compressor--exch/1231281/36000570.html) for a price of $490 for a new unit


I'm just going to try to ping him, does @R29 work to notify on this message board?

Thanks, Ted

I just check my User CP every once in a while for updates to threads.

[Ted Andkilde]

Q&A 144:

https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Question/144/are-electric-clutches-allowed-and-if-so-can-they-be-run-from-the-solenoid-breakout-card-since-they-are-essentially-a-fancy-solenoid

Thanks Jon

[Ted Andkilde]

Beat me to it! That's the only limitation I would see from R29.

The other is R11. Is this part considered COTS? And, if so, does it fall under $400? I am going to look some more to see if I can find something regarding automotive parts reuse.

It's a junkyard item, owes me $10.

Cheers, Ted

[Jon Stratis]

oh, and the applicable portion of R29:
Electrical solenoid actuators, no greater than 1 in. stroke and rated electrical input power no greater than 10 watts (W) continuous duty at 12 volts (VDC)

You will need to bring in and provide a datasheet for the clutch that specifies stroke and input power.

[Jim Wilks]

I seriously doubt this solenoid is 10w or less.

[Ted Andkilde]

I seriously doubt this solenoid is 10w or less.

Hmmn, this could be a problem.

Google is all over the map on expected amperage draw for A/C clutches. everything from 0.75A to the teens...

[Jim Wilks]

How about measuring it?

[cgmv123]

Hmmn, this could be a problem.

Google is all over the map on expected amperage draw for A/C clutches. everything from 0.75A to the teens...

You could try measuring it yourself, but I don't think that counts for anything. The inspector will want hard documentation from the manufacturer.

[FrankJ]

I don't think it is legal. It have to be a solenoid @ less than 10 W. Hard to document. It would not fall under the Automotive recyclers PDV since it is not a motor.

It should be though based on it being a really cool idea nicely done.

[Ted Andkilde]

I'm just going to try to ping him, does @R29 work to notify on this message board?

Thanks, Ted

Oh boy, R29 is Rule 29, not a person -- one more indication I'm too old for the internet :)

Cheers, Ted

[Ted Andkilde]

How about measuring it?

I'll do that this afternoon, but, as others have mentioned, documentation will be a challenge...

Cheers, Ted

[MrForbes]

Oh boy, R29 is Rule 29, not a person

I was wondering if you had figured that out yet....

[Ted Andkilde]

I was wondering if you had figured that out yet....

Well, I may be old, but at least I'm slow, so I got that going for me, which is nice...

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