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View Full Version : Relay Solenoid vs. Double Solenoid? Double Solenoid Wired to Relay in DSC.

chigskonkwo
08-02-2014, 19:06
What is the difference between a relay solenoid and a double solenoid? Can regular double solenoids be wired to the relay in the digital sidecar if it is programmed this way, such as what is here where it says "Relay Solenoid Example" here?

http://team358.org/files/programming/ControlSystem2009-/LabVIEW/
JamesCH95
08-02-2014, 19:13
A relay, like a spike, is very different from a single- or double-acting solenoid.

If you're interested in the difference between single-acting and double-acting solenoids it's pretty simple: a double-acting solenoid is stable in whatever state it is in, whereas a single-acting solenoid always reverts to one particular state unless it is energized.
chigskonkwo
08-02-2014, 19:21
So what is meant here where they have "Relay Solenoid Example"?

http://team358.org/files/programming/ControlSystem2009-/LabVIEW/
JamesCH95
08-02-2014, 19:29
I'm no lab-view expert, but it looks like they're driving a solenoid with a relay (Spike) instead of the solenoid break-out-board. This was the only option before solenoid break-out-boards existed, and useful for driving multiple valves at the same time in the same direction.
Mark McLeod
08-02-2014, 20:40
12v solenoids can be run via Spikes (Relays in code) in place of using the Solenoid Module.
Only 12v solenoids can work this way.

Wiring goes like this for Single Solenoids:
http://www.team358.org/files/pneumatic/SingleSolenoidSpikeWiring.jpg

Wiring like this for Double Solenoids (each solenoid block just represents one side of the Double Solenoid):
http://www.team358.org/files/pneumatic/DoubleSolenoidSpikeWiring.jpg
chigskonkwo
08-02-2014, 20:44
12v solenoids can be run via Spikes (Relays in code) in place of using the Solenoid Module.
Only 12v solenoids can work this way.

Wiring goes like this for Single Solenoids:
http://www.team358.org/files/pneumatic/SingleSolenoidSpikeWiring.jpg

Wiring like this for Double Solenoids (each solenoid block just represents one side of the Double Solenoid):
http://www.team358.org/files/pneumatic/DoubleSolenoidSpikeWiring.jpg

Oh okay, so just to clarify, there is no way to do this with 24v solenoids?
cgmv123
08-02-2014, 20:46
Oh okay, so just to clarify, there is no way to do this with 24v solenoids?

Spikes will most likely fry if you try to run them off of 24v. You need to use the Solenoid breakout board.
JamesCH95
08-02-2014, 20:46
Speaking from personal experience, a Spike will blow up if powered with much more than 14V.
chigskonkwo
08-02-2014, 20:50
Oh okay thanks, it's just that we are experiencing problems with our Solenoid Module/Solenoid Breakout/Code/cRIO (we don't know what exactly the problem is) and are looking for any other way to power our solenoids.
JamesCH95
08-02-2014, 20:53
There are some specifics about 24V solenoids in the 2014 manual, blue box on [R42] states a power limit for the solenoid breakout board, you should ensure that your solenoids aren't over-powering it.
chigskonkwo
08-02-2014, 21:05
The solenoids that we are using are the same solenoids that we used last year with no problem, with the same cRIO, Solenoid Module and Solenoid Breakout.
orangemoore
08-02-2014, 21:10
Are you regulating your pressure properly? This year our solenoid did not work at all because we had our regulator set to over 100 psi versus the max of 60 psi.
chigskonkwo
08-02-2014, 21:11
Are you regulating your pressure properly? This year our solenoid did not work at all because we had our regulator set to over 100 psi versus the max of 60 psi.

Our solenoids are not even being recognized by the cRIO/Module. None of the lights on the module are lit even before the compressor is turned on.
Gregor
08-02-2014, 21:18
Our solenoids are not even being recognized by the cRIO/Module. None of the lights on the module are lit even before the compressor is turned on.

Unplug the ribbon cable from the sidecar, and see if all three power lights on the sidecar are lit up.
Alan Anderson
09-02-2014, 00:29
Our solenoids are not even being recognized by the cRIO/Module. None of the lights on the module are lit even before the compressor is turned on.

Which slot is your NI 9742 module installed in?

To help rule out hardware problems with the cRIO or the module, run one of the examples (e.g. Solenoid with Compressor). If the green LED on the module still doesn't light when you turn on the solenoid output, I suggest that you should talk to NI about getting a replacement.

Unplug the ribbon cable from the sidecar, and see if all three power lights on the sidecar are lit up.

That's good advice for problems controlling a Spike relay, but the Digital Sidecar is not involved at all in the problem being described here.
chigskonkwo
09-02-2014, 07:39
Which slot is your NI 9742 module installed in?

To help rule out hardware problems with the cRIO or the module, run one of the examples (e.g. Solenoid with Compressor). If the green LED on the module still doesn't light when you turn on the solenoid output, I suggest that you should talk to NI about getting a replacement.

Thanks, we will try this on Monday.
Gregor
09-02-2014, 10:41
That's good advice for problems controlling a Spike relay, but the Digital Sidecar is not involved at all in the problem being described here.

Totally missed the 24v solenoid part... Thanks.