View Full Version : Are there any network protocol that we can use at competition?
Rambunction
15-02-2014, 15:59
Basically, our team wants to set up a LAN at competition, but the rules restrict pretty much forbid all of the 802.11 routers. Does anyone know of any routers which could be used?
I have read about 802.11ad, which is the only one not explicitly banned in the rules. Does anyone know any reason why that one is different? Did they just forget about it seeing as it seems to just come out? Will they ban it in the in the future?
Also, we discussed using Bluetooth; does anyone know any practical problems with that?
Take router. Plug a bunch of laptops in via Ethernet cable. Make sure wireless is OFF. Make sure everything is powered.
Rambunction
15-02-2014, 16:19
Sorry, I should have specified that we need connect over a long distance. Ethernet will likely not be a possibility.
Bluetooth and 3G/4G/LTE have not been expressly disallowed yet.
IIRC, Bluetooth also operates in the 2.4GHZ range; thus, be cautious. I suggest reading T5 as well as T4--they are not kidding about anything in that. The field staff can sniff out networks in the 802.11 band (and other stuff like that)--if they say to shut it off, hit the power switch immediately.
You might be able to use a router that operates in another band entirely. If you can find one. Otherwise, you might want to take a look at the use of cell phone networks, or maybe SneakerNet.
Going to have to agree with Eric here. The purpose of the rule restricting teams setting up wireless access has generally been to cut down on the amount of wireless interference on the field. 802.11ad may get around this problem since it runs at 60GHz, however just because it doesn't directly interfere with b/g/n wireless doesn't mean it can't produce interference with that spectrum. Also, it's such a new standard that I can foresee two problems with you attempting to use it: 1) you can't get equipment to work with it/have to buy all new equipment to use it, and 2) the volunteer staff won't be aware/knowledgeable enough on the standard to know whether or not it interferes with the field wireless, and you'll be asked to shut it down anyways.
Bluetooth could also be problematic. It's range and speed are pretty heavily limited in comparison to the 802.11 standards, and may not be effective for your purposes as a LAN, which is why it's typically only used in Personal Area Networks anyways. Also, while it's much lower power, it does still operate in the 2.4GHz range, and will directly interfere with WiFi.
Cellular data may work, though not easily if you're looking for a LAN setup. You may need to setup a team VPN to make that work as a local network. And depending on the venue that may not be feasible just because of coverage or speed issues, not to mention that you may not have enough team members willing to pay for the data that ends up getting used.
Unfortunately, there's probably not a simple way for you to set this up that does not violate the rules on establishing a wireless network at competition, at least if you're needing a significant amount of range. I'd personally just go the GP route and come up some system that falls completely in line with the rules set out by FIRST, instead of trying to get around them on a technicality. Perhaps a line of sight IR laser transmission?
wesleyac
16-02-2014, 23:33
Not very practical, but https://github.com/Katee/quietnet :P
Walkie talkies all the way.
Walkie talkies all the way.
Except for Section 5.5.8 - E. - v. :rolleyes:
Yup, definitely is explicitly disallowed. Thanks. Missed that. Its been a long season.
IIRC, Bluetooth also operates in the 2.4GHZ range; thus, be cautious. I suggest reading T5 as well as T4--they are not kidding about anything in that. The field staff can sniff out networks in the 802.11 band (and other stuff like that)--if they say to shut it off, hit the power switch immediately.
You might be able to use a router that operates in another band entirely.
Bluetooth does use the 2.4GHz range yes, it however is not a 802.11 protocol (as listed in the rules) and 2.4GHz will not interfere with the field.
For United states competitions 5GHz (http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/1-FRC%20Control%20System-Introduction-Rev-0-4c.pdf) is used, I believe though in some other countries, 5GHz is a restricted band and 2.4GHz is used.
There is no reason one should have to shut off a bluetooth system unless there is an FTC completions also going on, as they do use a 2.4GHz system for their control system (Bluetooth).
Jeffrafa
17-02-2014, 02:55
... and 2.4GHz will not interfere with the field.
For United states competitions 5GHz (http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/1-FRC%20Control%20System-Introduction-Rev-0-4c.pdf) is used, I believe though in some other countries, 5GHz is a restricted band and 2.4GHz is used.
There is no reason one should have to shut off a bluetooth system unless there is an FTC completions also going on, as they do use a 2.4GHz system for their control system (Bluetooth).
2.4 GHz IS used by the field. Every FRC event field has wireless networks in the 2.4 and 5 GHz bands - all the robots are on 5 GHz, but all field systems communicate on 2.4 (all referee touch screens, etc).
So yes bluetooth, and other 2.4 networks may not directly impact robot communications, but that doesn't mean they are okay - and you definitely will be found and told to shutoff any wifi networks on either spectrum. Although Bluetooth may not be explicitly named, if it is in the same frequency range and has a chance of interference then it really should be avoided.
2.4 GHz IS used by the field. Every FRC event field has wireless networks in the 2.4 and 5 GHz bands - all the robots are on 5 GHz, but all field systems communicate on 2.4 (all referee touch screens, etc).
So yes bluetooth, and other 2.4 networks may not directly impact robot communications, but that doesn't mean they are okay - and you definitely will be found and told to shutoff any wifi networks on either spectrum. Although Bluetooth may not be explicitly named, if it is in the same frequency range and has a chance of interference then it really should be avoided.
The only field electronics layout/assembly documentation I can find lists touch panels as hard wired with ethernet, has this changed?
And I agree no one should setup wifi networks, but I don't see bluetooth interfering with common robot communication.
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