TIMS Down - 2/19/14

[sanddrag]

Is TIMS broken for anyone else? Can we get an extension on Dean's List please?

[MissDaisyGirl]

Its down for me too! :(

[Kevin Kolodziej]

Sorry...it broke while I was submitting. Oops!!

[Kyle A]

it is down for me too.

That is what I get for procrastinating on my Dean's List essays.

[MissDaisyGirl]

I mean technically we're early, there's still 12 hours left. ;)

[SteveGPage]

Same here ... I had saved part of my submission, and was trying to finish up a second essay when it crashed. I won't have access to the system when I'm at work tomorrow. I hope it comes back up soon.

[geomapguy]

Same here ... I had saved part of my submission, and was trying to finish up a second essay when it crashed. I won't have access to the system when I'm at work tomorrow. I hope it comes back up soon.

Maybe try getting the info to another mentor and have them log into the account tomorrow to submit it if this downtime continues

[Bob Steele]

Same problem here.... I was putting pictures in and it went down.
So I have not hit submit... so I have no submissions.
I will email FIRST about it... see what happens here is the message I got

[holygrail]

Same here. No planning time in the morning before 11am (Noon Eastern), so assuming they get it back up, looks like I'll have to do the ol' "here kids, why don't you work on this while Mr. Wood uploads this to TIMS."

And I was almost done with the submission too.

[bachster]

I guess 9 pm - 12 am the night before is a popular time to submit. I was trying to get my pictures loaded ...

[Joe Ross]

No extension, but you get 50% more characters.

[EStokely]

Still down as of 11:20PST
Knowing me I'll pop up a few time tonight and look...
FIRST NH
Opens before we do and I suspect they have a lot of email about this.

Should be OK by morning...

[Danny Diaz]

Yup, still down. (1:20AM CST). Grrrr, I really do hope it's back in the early morning. The servers are probably reacting to all those pictures of team members working on the robots without safety glasses on - even I can only handle so much of that.

-Danny

[MrTechCenter]

STIMS is down too :eek: ouch! I guess I have to get up early tomorrow and try again.

[packers76]

I was also trying to complete the submission for Team #3729 around 9:00 PM MT last night and now I'm up at 3:00 AM this morning and I still can't log in. :ahh: I will call when FIRST is open tomorrow and ask for an extension.

[MysterE]

So - TIMS is still down. I guess I'll just have to hop on my school's Lear Jet and fly the submission to NH. Anyone need a ride on the way? :]

[kevin.li.rit]

Still down apparently. Is there actually a process to get an extension?

[tim-tim]

It appears the problem is not only related to TIMS and STIMS. I can't get to any of the event or team information pages like this one: http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/regional-events

[Tungrus]

TIMS status:
7:53AM ET 2/20/2014, still down.

[tim-tim]

It appears most everything is back live.

[SteveGPage]

And I was able to complete my submission, at 8:36 AM EST.

[Alpha Beta]

Submitted this morning. Looks like it's working again.

[Tungrus]

TIMS up!

[billbo911]

Submitted our nomination at 6:40 AM PST today.
Thanks for getting this back up FIRST!

[Madison]

The instructions on the Dean's List page read, across, the top, "Once your submission is complete, click the Submission Complete button below. If you discover an error in your submission, you can still make changes up until the deadline."

I don't see a button labeled as 'Submission Complete,' but I have checks for all of the fields below. What am I missing?

-Madison

[bachster]

Hi Madison,

I think the "submission complete" button only appeared once. Once you've clicked it for the first time, you just have the "edit details" and "back to team summary" buttons. I take it that the submission is always considered "complete" after that initial submission, regardless of your changes.

If you go back to your team summary, it should show "Last submitted by ..." and a check mark next to Dean's List.

[Madison]

Hi Madison,

I think the "submission complete" button only appeared once. Once you've clicked it for the first time, you just have the "edit details" and "back to team summary" buttons. I take it that the submission is always considered "complete" after that initial submission, regardless of your changes.

If you go back to your team summary, it should show "Last submitted by ..." and a check mark next to Dean's List.

Ah -- thanks. I thought that might be the case, but it wasn't clear.

I'm glad to see that someone got there before I did. Relying on me to beat deadlines before 10am is never a good idea. :)

[Bob Steele]

Ah -- thanks. I thought that might be the case, but it wasn't clear.

I'm glad to see that someone got there before I did. Relying on me to beat deadlines before 10am is never a good idea. :)

It's good you got it in when you did Madison... it was a 9:00 am deadline.:)
(for us west coast types at least)

I did write to FIRST and ask them to consider an extension for teams on the west coast that tried for a long time last night to get in and could not...
I had already gotten ours in this morning...so this was not for our team...

Here was the response from them:
*****************************
We understand that last night’s technical issue negatively impacted teams, and we are very sorry for the inconvenience. We thank you for sharing your feedback about this, but we will not be considering a deadline extension as the Dean’s List Award was open for submissions from November 14th-February 20th.

******************************

interesting and not what I expected... but I understand their point....
If I did not extend a deadline in my classroom after I was the one that had problems accepting an assignment on the last day that the assignment was due...... I would have major problems....

[waialua359]

It's good you got it in when you did Madison... it was a 9:00 am deadline.:)
(for us west coast types at least)

I did write to FIRST and ask them to consider an extension for teams on the west coast that tried for a long time last night to get in and could not...
I had already gotten ours in this morning...so this was not for our team...

Here was the response from them:
*****************************
We understand that last night’s technical issue negatively impacted teams, and we are very sorry for the inconvenience. We thank you for sharing your feedback about this, but we will not be considering a deadline extension as the Dean’s List Award was open for submissions from November 14th-February 20th.

******************************

interesting and not what I expected... but I understand their point....
If I did not extend a deadline in my classroom after I was the one that had problems accepting an assignment on the last day that the assignment was due...... I would have major problems....
I am a little disappointed with this response from FIRST.
While our team submitted a week ago and recently had added/revised a few parts with success, I hope others didnt miss the deadline due to this.
The build season is a big factor when considering students. I fail to see how any good writeup, especially for a 1st year student can be done during the November 14th opening when school isnt even 1/2 way through yet nor was the experience of the student in an FRC program at its peak during build season.
Some of the posters here are also mentors who help build robots. Its not like they are procrastinating with so much free time to spare.
My only suggestion would be to extend it the same amount of time that it was unavailable for teams to submit.

[Madison]

It's good you got it in when you did Madison... it was a 9:00 am deadline.:)
(for us west coast types at least)

I did write to FIRST and ask them to consider an extension for teams on the west coast that tried for a long time last night to get in and could not...
I had already gotten ours in this morning...so this was not for our team...

Here was the response from them:
*****************************
We understand that last night’s technical issue negatively impacted teams, and we are very sorry for the inconvenience. We thank you for sharing your feedback about this, but we will not be considering a deadline extension as the Dean’s List Award was open for submissions from November 14th-February 20th.

******************************

interesting and not what I expected... but I understand their point....
If I did not extend a deadline in my classroom after I was the one that had problems accepting an assignment on the last day that the assignment was due...... I would have major problems....

I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation that FIRST's systems would function as intended -- particularly near the deadline. It's a little silly for them to pass the blame onto others (You could've done this when it wasn't broken!) rather than admit culpability and atone for it.

I knew it was a 9AM deadline; I usually don't get up until after 9 because I'm both lazy and lucky that my employer is awesome. Expecting me to function before 10 is a bad idea. :) I happened to wake up earlier today because build season wiped me out and I fell asleep at 7 last night.

[TKM.368]

Here was the response from them:
*****************************
We understand that last night’s technical issue negatively impacted teams, and we are very sorry for the inconvenience. We thank you for sharing your feedback about this, but we will not be considering a deadline extension as the Dean’s List Award was open for submissions from November 14th-February 20th.

******************************


I guess waiting to get feedback from mentors busy building and programming the robot until after the robot was bagged turned out not to be a good thing. They could have just shut it down on Kickoff Day and said "you had since November."

Sad. Very sad.

[magnets]

It's good you got it in when you did Madison... it was a 9:00 am deadline.:)
(for us west coast types at least)

I did write to FIRST and ask them to consider an extension for teams on the west coast that tried for a long time last night to get in and could not...
I had already gotten ours in this morning...so this was not for our team...

Here was the response from them:
*****************************
We understand that last night’s technical issue negatively impacted teams, and we are very sorry for the inconvenience. We thank you for sharing your feedback about this, but we will not be considering a deadline extension as the Dean’s List Award was open for submissions from November 14th-February 20th.

******************************

interesting and not what I expected... but I understand their point....
If I did not extend a deadline in my classroom after I was the one that had problems accepting an assignment on the last day that the assignment was due...... I would have major problems....

Sorry, but this is totally unacceptable and completely unprofessional. This sort of response makes the organization look like it is being run by a bunch of clowns. I am extremely angry about how FIRST handled this situation. Imagine if they told teams "Sorry, but only robots bagged before week six may compete, you had from the beginning of build to make robots, and those who did not submit early can't submit at all." It would not work out.

FIRST was unable to run their website, which can be an understandable problem, but was just too darn lazy to address the problem.

[Snapshot]

As a west-coast team, I know that our team missed the deadline because of the networking issues and TIMS. It made a lot of people very upset (myself being one of them). I do hope they reverse the decision on not having an extension.

[Carolyn_Grace]

This is not the first time that servers have crashed around Awards time. FIRST has sent out multiple reminders about when Dean's List projects are due. In college, most of us are taught that deadlines mean hard deadlines. It's real life. There was plenty of time to submit early. I expect my students to submit essays before the deadline (goal is a week before, though this year one team did them the day before and another team did them 12 hours before).

If I had not gotten my Dean's List submissions in on time because of server issues, I would have to go to my team and say, "I had time to write these essays early and submit early, and I failed to do that. I'm sorry, but it is my fault that these did not get submitted." It would be embarrassing to do this, but it would also show students the right way to apologize for something, instead of blaming something/someone else. It's frustrating, yes, but the servers crashing are ALWAYS a possibility around awards submission times.

[TKM.368]

It would be embarrassing to do this, but it would also show students the right way to apologize for something, instead of blaming something/someone else. It's frustrating, yes, but the servers crashing are ALWAYS a possibility around awards submission times.

I'm sorry... Sorry that I trusted FIRST to be the gracious professionals they ask everyone else to be. When the government shut down, NASA graciously extended their deadline to submit for their grant even though there was time prior to submit. When snow storms affected numerous teams, FIRST graciously upped the withholding allowance even though, apparently, you can build a whole robot in three days.

If I told my students they had a deadline to turn something in and then I had a substitute on the day it was due who, for some reason, wouldn't collect their assignments, I would graciously accept their work the following day to accommodate for the unexpected circumstance rather than tell them too bad.

Yes, this is the real world. Graciousness abounds in the real world. I'd expect FIRST, of all organizations, to live up to those ideals in this situation, and I'm sorry that in this case they are not.

[Carolyn_Grace]

If I told my students they had a deadline to turn something in and then I had a substitute on the day it was due who, for some reason, wouldn't collect their assignments, I would graciously accept their work the following day to accommodate for the unexpected circumstance rather than tell them too bad.

Yes, this is the real world. Graciousness abounds in the real world. I'd expect FIRST, of all organizations, to live up to those ideals in this situation, and I'm sorry that in this case they are not.

The difference in your scenario is that the substitute refused on the SINGLE day the students were told to turn in an assignment.

The site has been open to accept essays for MONTHS now, giving us mentors plenty of days to submit before the 18 hours it was due. PLUS, the site came back up with at least 3 hours to spare.

I've had many teachers, professors and bosses tell me, "This is the deadline. Get it done early and turn it in, and that's fine, but I will not accept it after the deadline, no matter what," and they stick to that.

[TKM.368]

PLUS, the site came back up with at least 3 hours to spare.

Three hours to spare in Indiana, no problem. Three hours to spare in Hawaii? The site was closed before I was even able to wake up.

Kudos to you and all those who submitted early. However, you dismiss cold heartedly a number of extremely worthy students that are being denied an opportunity for recognition that they deserve. If it wasn't about the students, I, and I'm sure many others, wouldn't be so upset.

[Taylor]

I'm thoroughly confused by all of this. We know that FIRST has trouble handling big server loads. Game Manual on kickoff day. FIRST Choice. Chairman's due date. It's been well-documented that these are common problems, and we need to be proactive to mitigate the repercussions.
Besides, it's like Carolyn_Grace said, the site was up and running and accessible at the time of the deadline. So, no, it's not analogous to the government shutdown or a sub who wouldn't accept work. Because when FIRST said it was due, they took it.

Having said this, I agree the system needs work. It's not acceptable. But it happens.

Logistically, let's look at the situation. If FIRST had given an extension, they likely would not have had time to properly process the Dean's List nominations before Week 1 events. So even if they really really wanted to, I suspect in this case, their hands were tied.

[Joe Ross]

Sorry, but this is totally unacceptable and completely unprofessional. This sort of response makes the organization look like it is being run by a bunch of clowns. I am extremely angry about how FIRST handled this situation. Imagine if they told teams "Sorry, but only robots bagged before week six may compete, you had from the beginning of build to make robots, and those who did not submit early can't submit at all." It would not work out.

FIRST was unable to run their website, which can be an understandable problem, but was just too darn lazy to address the problem.

Thank you for volunteering to review Deans List essays for week 1 events. Your volunteer coordinator will be contacting you shortly.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Having said this, I agree the system needs work. It's not acceptable. But it happens.

The system definitely needs work. That's undeniable. I agree.

That said, if I was in a position where I needed to post essays by a certain time, I would set five different alarms to make sure that I woke up an hour before the deadline to try at least one more time. I'd do everything in my power to make it happen, and THEN if it still didn't work I would complain about the system. In fact, I've done this with online university classes more than a couple times.

[Bald & Bearded]

I work as a government contractor. Now that most proposals are submitted through web sites or email the government puts all kinds of notices in the RFPs that contractors need to submit early and that the government is not responsible for delays caused by technology.

That said, I have seen them waive or extend dealines when the technical issue was clearly on their side and something they could have addressed.

What this tells me is get a decent draft submitted early and update the submission often.

Although in this case, I think FIRST either needs to have 24x7 IT support for those servers (so the problems can be fixed quickly) or be prepared to extend what is in effect and artificial deadline.

[Bob Steele]

Submitting a draft early is certainly something that could be done but it was plainly stated on the website that your submission would not be evaluated until the submission was finalized. So doing a draft is nice but it would not have counted.

I am also an educator and I would find it totally unacceptable REGARDLESS of statements made previously if as a professor, I would not have been in my office the day something was done or had arranged to have someone there to accept those assignments.

I think it goes both ways...

I don't think anyone was asking for a week extension or anything.... just enough time yesterday... say until the end of the day... to be able to turn in the document.

Mentors and coaches were all under the gun to get a robot in the bag the night before this.... so on the West Coast we had exactly one night to finish up the Dean's List nominations and get them in because some of us have day jobs.

Granted we might have done it early but the fact remains that we all plan our time out and schedule activities....

It was unfortunate that it happened....but it could have been fixed...

[Snapshot]

I don't think anyone was asking for a week extension or anything.... just enough time yesterday... say until the end of the day... to be able to turn in the document.

This is precisely what we wanted. Even just a couple of hours open to give teams that missed it enough time to turn in their final submissions would be greatly appreciated.

It seems that the topic is incredibly divided between opinions of the East-coast robotics teams and the west-coast robotics teams. I just want to remind people that, with the deadline that currently exists for Dean's list, teams that are incapable of determining team members to be nominated for Dean's list until near the deadline find the time a lot harder to turn in essays at 9 AM in the morning, as opposed to noon on the east coast.

I know our team missed the deadline, and our Dean's list nominees (I myself, a junior and one of our team's nominees), parents, and coach are upset, but I can't help but feel even worse for the likelihood that some rookie team on the west-coast had been denied the opportunity because of issues with TIMS.

[Carolyn_Grace]

This is precisely what we wanted. Even just a couple of hours open to give teams that missed it enough time to turn in their final submissions would be greatly appreciated.

It seems that the topic is incredibly divided between opinions of the East-coast robotics teams and the west-coast robotics teams. I just want to remind people that, with the deadline that currently exists for Dean's list, teams that are incapable of determining team members to be nominated for Dean's list until near the deadline find the time a lot harder to turn in essays at 9 AM in the morning, as opposed to noon on the east coast.

I know our team missed the deadline, and our Dean's list nominees (I myself, a junior and one of our team's nominees), parents, and coach are upset, but I can't help but feel even worse for the likelihood that some rookie team on the west-coast had been denied the opportunity because of issues with TIMS.

All I want is time to make up for what was lost due to being locked out of my team's shop due to uncontrollable weather issues. 7 days of Build Season lost. I don't want 7 days time worth, just enough to test our chassis. Sure, we can withhold 45 lbs, but we didn't have time to test our drive-train before bagging it. And the west-coast teams got at least 3 extra hours during Build Season. With those three hours we may have been able to test the programming.

How about people who couldn't submit Dean's List get an extra three hours to submit their essays, and people who lost valuable time on their robot because of snow days get an extra three hours to work on their robots?

[mathking]

I think the comparisons to the end of build season are not really fair. This problem is more akin to the old days when weather or some other issue would prevent FedEx from getting to a build site to pick up the robot. I guess the part I really do not like is the glibness of saying "Submission has been open since November..." We never decide for sure on our nominees until toward the end of the build season. If we are nominating our best two candidates, we want to include what they did this year. Both of our candidates had things we included in the essay that they did in the latter part of this season. We did have both essays uploaded ahead of time. But when we were ready submit the system was down. And it didn't get back up until after both of the mentors who can submit were busy with work. Yes it is our fault, in that we could have done it a couple of days ahead of time. But we would not have had nearly as good a submission. In the grand scheme of things, this might make us decide on candidates earlier in order to make sure that this doesn't happen again.

I would love for FIRST to pursue some simple technical solutions. Perhaps you can save and if the system is down the saved essay would be submitted. This would make me feel a lot better about starting ahead of time, as it would be possible to update with good things without running the risk of timing out in submission.

[Madison]

All I want is time to make up for what was lost due to being locked out of my team's shop due to uncontrollable weather issues. 7 days of Build Season lost. I don't want 7 days time worth, just enough to test our chassis. Sure, we can withhold 45 lbs, but we didn't have time to test our drive-train before bagging it. And the west-coast teams got at least 3 extra hours during Build Season. With those three hours we may have been able to test the programming.

How about people who couldn't submit Dean's List get an extra three hours to submit their essays, and people who lost valuable time on their robot because of snow days get an extra three hours to work on their robots?

Maintaining server uptime is a solved problem. Controlling the weather is not. I'm not sure how the two are equivalent and this comparison is a bit ridiculous.

[Taylor]

Maintaining server uptime is a solved problem. Controlling the weather is not. I'm not sure how the two are equivalent and this comparison is a bit ridiculous.

So is the assertion that expecting a professional to function before 10a is preposterous.

[Bob Steele]

All I want is time to make up for what was lost due to being locked out of my team's shop due to uncontrollable weather issues. 7 days of Build Season lost. I don't want 7 days time worth, just enough to test our chassis. Sure, we can withhold 45 lbs, but we didn't have time to test our drive-train before bagging it. And the west-coast teams got at least 3 extra hours during Build Season. With those three hours we may have been able to test the programming.

How about people who couldn't submit Dean's List get an extra three hours to submit their essays, and people who lost valuable time on their robot because of snow days get an extra three hours to work on their robots?

How would you have felt if your weather conditions closed the school on Tuesday and you could not have put your robot in the bag and FIRST told you you could not compete? It is a deadline after all...

These teams were ready to submit... it was not a matter of needing extra time to finish the submissions.... this ball was dropped by FIRST....

[AdamHeard]

All I want is time to make up for what was lost due to being locked out of my team's shop due to uncontrollable weather issues. 7 days of Build Season lost. I don't want 7 days time worth, just enough to test our chassis. Sure, we can withhold 45 lbs, but we didn't have time to test our drive-train before bagging it. And the west-coast teams got at least 3 extra hours during Build Season. With those three hours we may have been able to test the programming.

How about people who couldn't submit Dean's List get an extra three hours to submit their essays, and people who lost valuable time on their robot because of snow days get an extra three hours to work on their robots?

Except FIRST ruled that teams who missed bagging due to weather were allowed to bag after the date...

[Carolyn_Grace]

I would love for FIRST to pursue some simple technical solutions. Perhaps you can save and if the system is down the saved essay would be submitted. This would make me feel a lot better about starting ahead of time, as it would be possible to update with good things without running the risk of timing out in submission.

I think this is a great suggestion for future improvements!

[Carolyn_Grace]

How would you have felt if your weather conditions closed the school on Tuesday and you could not have put your robot in the bag and FIRST told you you could not compete? It is a deadline after all...

These teams were ready to submit... it was not a matter of needing extra time to finish the submissions.... this ball was dropped by FIRST....

There was plenty of time to submit. The site came back up with at least 3 hours to spare. It wasn't convenient. It probably was a pain in the butt for people who did set alarms for 5:00 AM, BUT it was possible.

IF the system had STAYED crashed through Noon Eastern time and never came back up before the deadline passed, THEN I would call foul by FIRST.

[Madison]

So is the assertion that expecting a professional to function before 10a is preposterous.

I'm not complaining that the deadline was at 9am. I'm upset because I set aside time from my schedule to do EXACTLY as people here are suggesting -- submit it early -- and the system was unavailable to me.

I asked another of our mentors to set aside more of her time to check on the system and submit it the following morning after I spent more than an hour trying to do the same the evening before.

It's not unreasonable to ask that the system work reliably, especially near the end of submission window and the fact remains that FIRST (yet again) doesn't seem to value the time I spend trying to work around and accommodate their failures.

[Ryan Dognaux]

IF the system had STAYED crashed through Noon Eastern time and never came back up before the deadline passed, THEN I would call foul by FIRST.

I believe this was the case for our team. We attempted to submit with 20 minutes remaining and the website wasn't accepting it. We e-mailed FIRST the entry and hope to hear a reply soon. Technically we were done prior to the deadline and the website didn't accept our entry.

[Carolyn_Grace]

I believe this was the case for our team. We attempted to submit with 20 minutes remaining and the website wasn't accepting it. We e-mailed FIRST the entry and hope to hear a reply soon. Technically we were done prior to the deadline and the website didn't accept our entry.

That could be a possible issue. What day/time did your team attempt to submit?
According to this thread, the site was back up as of 8:36 AM Eastern time.

[Nirvash]

There was plenty of time to submit. The site came back up with at least 3 hours to spare. It wasn't convenient. It probably was a pain in the butt for people who did set alarms for 5:00 AM, BUT it was possible.

IF the system had STAYED crashed through Noon Eastern time and never came back up before the deadline passed, THEN I would call foul by FIRST.

So, your school is closed due to weather the day of bag day, no one can get in to bag the robot and if you don't bag by 11:59pm you can not compete. But then in the last few hours of the day, the school updates their website and says, sure you can come in.
Is that reasonable?

[Ryan Dognaux]

That could be a possible issue. What day/time did your team attempt to submit?
According to this thread, the site was back up as of 8:36 AM Eastern time.

We tried around 10:40 AM CST. I just found out that FIRST also did not accept our appeal. It would be one thing if we were past the deadline to submit the entry, but technically it was before noon EST and the failure was on their end. I guess next year we'll make sure not to include some of the build season successes of our students and submit much earlier. Thanks FIRST!

[Carolyn_Grace]

So, your school is closed due to weather the day of bag day, no one can get in to bag the robot and if you don't bag by 11:59pm you can not compete. But then in the last few hours of the day, the school updates their website and says, sure you can come in.
Is that reasonable?

I don't understand your scenario. Can you explain it in a different way?

[waialua359]

I would love for FIRST to pursue some simple technical solutions. Perhaps you can save and if the system is down the saved essay would be submitted. This would make me feel a lot better about starting ahead of time, as it would be possible to update with good things without running the risk of timing out in submission.
This is already how the system is setup.
The problem is that FIRST should have explained that, OR if they did, I didnt see it. Perhaps teams would have planned to have submitted early for the just in case scenarios.
When we submitted early, we thought it was final. Instead, the system actually allowed us to make changes even after clicking the submit button.

[TKM.368]

The system definitely needs work. That's undeniable. I agree.

We'd just like FIRST to do as your Custom User Title suggests: Build bridges not walls.

[waialua359]

We tried around 10:40 AM CST. I just found out that FIRST also did not accept our appeal. It would be one thing if we were past the deadline to submit the entry, but technically it was before noon EST and the failure was on their end. I guess next year we'll make sure not to include some of the build season successes of our students and submit much earlier. Thanks FIRST!

Wow, so you tried to submit right before the deadline, you contacted FIRST about the situation, and could do nothing about it.

I cant believe its not being rectified.

[Carolyn_Grace]

We tried around 10:40 AM CST. I just found out that FIRST also did not accept our appeal. It would be one thing if we were past the deadline to submit the entry, but technically it was before noon EST and the failure was on their end. I guess next year we'll make sure not to include some of the build season successes of our students and submit much earlier. Thanks FIRST!

This is definitely the first that I've heard of this. All that I've read so far is that TIMS was down during the night and came back on sometime between 7:30-8:30 AM Eastern time. My understanding (and what my reasoning was based on) was that there was a solid 3-4 hour window when it was working, not that it was spotty during that time.

[Snapshot]

Our coach tried to turn them in at 7:40ish PST but the system refused to log them in, so that's why we couldn't get ours in.

When we initially contacted FIRST, they were considering an extension, but then later emailed us that they would not be extending the nominations.

[rees2001]

Has everyone checked to make sure their submissions are still in as checked? I submitted ours on Tuesday during a down time before bag-n-tag. Put in a Robot picture and robot name. Was all set.
I went in shortly after noon on Thursday and my check-marks were gone. I immediately contacted FIRST and was told to e-mail FRC teams support. I was then told that my submission was not complete. I called again today and was told that the essay was there, pictures were there but an event was not selected and a grade was left out (I may have missed that one on the 2nd essay)? Do I have to keep selecting an event every time I make changes? This was one of the first things I did. Everything else stayed selected, student info, essay, pictures? This really wasn't that difficult. Like the rest of the prepared people I had it all in early, just Tuesday early for the 2nd essay. But early.
I have contacted FIRST again. It seems a bit uninspiring to not give kids the chance at this award because of issues on their end.

[jsasaki]

If I were a volunteer for FIRST reading essays for submissions like Deans list or Woddie Flowers I wouldn't be upset at the fact that I had to read a couple more inspiring essays to be able to choose the best of the best in FIRST. These students deserve a chance at being recognized for the hard work they do to make FIRST loud and it's sad that we aren't going to see these student rise to the top with the rest of the submissions because of a crashed server and "upset evaluators". All teams wanted was a small window to submit essays, not an extension to be able to polish essays. I really hope FIRST makes things right, if not this year, at least for next year.

[Michael Blake]

Huh? I'm not sure why FIRST is taking this position this year?

In 2012 the morning of the deadline TIMS was down, couldn't submit Dean's List nomination. I called FIRST and they acknowledged the problem and told me to email them the submission _before_ the time deadline and they would take that as our official entry.

IT WORKED, because our nominated student WON Dean's List Finalist at Alamo Regional.

Can't help but wonder if there's a student(s) locked-out from consideration that would have won had the exception been made in 2014 like it was in 2012...

--Michael Blake

EDIT: I believe later that day, they extended the deadline (using TIMS for submission) after receiving many emailed entries.

[Andrew Schreiber]

So is the assertion that expecting a professional to function before 10a is preposterous.

Woah, low blow. Some of us don't function too hot before certain hours for a variety of reasons. I don't know Madison's exact scenario (and I frankly don't think it's relevant here) but I know there've been plenty of times I've not been functional before 10am due to work reasons. When you are up until 4am babysitting a server expecting you to be functional the next day is preposterous.

So, as a professional who doesn't function before 10 am frequently - a 9-5 job isn't what makes you professional, doing your dang job is. And the idea that we have to work on someone else' schedule is ridiculously narrow minded.

Mike, I expected better than this from you.

[loyal]

Its clear to me that FIRST is using the same server as Obama Care.
But look at the bright side we can bring 15 extra pounds of prebuilt stuff because of some chilly weather. How much graciousness and professionalism do you expect? (sarcasm if you didn't know)

Granted we had plenty of time to submit but as mentor we have jobs, family's, bills to pay, kids to evaluate for this award, robots to build, just a crap ton of things to deal with. Our team gave every child the opportunity to be nominated by waiting till a week before the dead line. We did get them in on time but I truly think that FIRST should make this good. We do this as volunteers and this is one of the single greatest ways we can show our kids and FIRST we notice the sacrifices, hard work and dedication they gave to the team. If this happened to us I would be heart broken and cry and so would our kids.
Bad form FIRST.:(

[MadeAtMidnight]

How sad.

Not all people can take time off of work to keep checking if the site is back up.
It seems like FIRST is forgetting that the people trying to submit are volunteers. They have spent a lot of their time writing the best essays they can and trying and retrying to upload their essays. I know if I treated my volunteers like that, I wouldn't get others eager to help.

Others have mentioned that people should know that the site goes down during submission times. I'm not sure that everyone would be aware of that. I do think that if it has been such a problem in the past, that FIRST should have also known that and had someone watching out for the situation.

I do agree that deadlines should not be taking lightly, but I think this deserved a different outcome.

Just my .02

[mathking]

I can't speak to others, but for me I hit submit in the morning, maybe 9:30ish (the system was back up and running) and it timed out. Didn't get another break to try again. One of those days.

[Karthik]

We know that FIRST has trouble handling big server loads. Game Manual on kickoff day. FIRST Choice. Chairman's due date. It's been well-documented that these are common problems, and we need to be proactive to mitigate the repercussions.

I don't think this is fair. Yes, many people who read Chief Delphi and have been in FIRST for a long time are well aware of FIRST's past server issues, however there are many more that are blissfully unaware. That second group would have no reason to think they needed to submit days in advance just to be safe. (Full Disclosure, we submitted ours on Tuesday evening, partly because we were nervous about past server issues.)

[Chris is me]

"You had since November" is a pathetic excuse. So we're supposed to have written a Dean's List entry for a junior based on one or two build seasons? We're supposed to just assume that the servers will go down and do it early?

FIRST has decided an arbitrary deadline is more important than honoring deserving students. Students are getting shut out of awards because of THEIR mistake, and they somehow twist logic in a way to blame it on us?

It's inexcusable to not at least extend the deadline by, say, half a day or so. I'd love to hear what is so excruciatingly crucial about the time they picked that they are unwilling to budge even in the face of their own mistake in the last 24 hours the award could be submitted. Unacceptable.

[PayneTrain]

Looks like FIRST wasn't feeding the interns enough so they stopped peddling to power the toaster-server.

I guess we could use the defense of FIRST sites going down before in crunch... the most similar example being 2012 STIMS submission deadlines... except that deadline was extended by, I believe a full day (or maybe even 36 hours?)

[Jared Russell]

There was plenty of time to submit. The site came back up with at least 3 hours to spare. It wasn't convenient. It probably was a pain in the butt for people who did set alarms for 5:00 AM, BUT it was possible.

We are talking about volunteer mentors nominating outstanding students for recognition. Not accepting a late submission because of a server issue sends the message that FIRST doesn't value mentors' time.

If the issue is that week 1 events won't have time to read all the entries if the deadline is extended, I will gladly personally review as many as I need to this or next weekend, and I'm sure others will help as well.

[magnets]

Earlier I posted in here, and got kind of a negative response. My first post was a bit rude, so I feel like I should explain why I was a little upset. A mentor on our team was going to submit, but when he couldn't get on to TIMS, he gave up. Later than night (while I was sleeping), he gave me a phone call saying TIMS was back up. But, the mentor didn't have a copy of the submission at his house. So, I got in the car, and started driving to the office that holds the key for our build space. I was told we couldn't get into the space late at night, but I headed down there anyway, where I found that the janitor happened to be doing a late night cleaning of the nearby offices, who could let us in.

I wasn't really happy to miss most of my sleep that night and instead spend about two hours driving around to grab the submission to submit it. I feel like FIRST has this thing where they expect all teams to be always checking the website, which isn't always super reasonable. Most of us do other things besides first.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Just wanted to post an update. We appealed FIRST's decision and they accepted our Dean's List submission for the St. Louis regional. Thank you FIRST!

[Snapshot]

Just wanted to post an update. We appealed FIRST's decision and they accepted our Dean's List submission for the St. Louis regional. Thank you FIRST!

We had an issue much like yours. Hopefully we'll hear back soon from FIRST.

[Tom Line]

Just wanted to post an update. We appealed FIRST's decision and they accepted our Dean's List submission for the St. Louis regional. Thank you FIRST!

Well that opens a can of worms. Why are some teams being told 'no extension' and others allowed? Perhaps yours was partially submitted or something?

[Ryan Dognaux]

Well that opens a can of worms. Why are some teams being told 'no extension' and others allowed? Perhaps yours was partially submitted or something?

I believe it was because we were attempting to submit prior to the deadline and we could not because of a technical problem with their website. We sent our initial appeal 8 minutes after the deadline as well so I think that helped.

[TKM.368]

Update: Frank Merrick, FRC Director, has reconsidered and a number of requests submitted (but not all) are going to be granted. Thanks, Frank!

[waialua359]

Update: Frank Merrick, FRC Director, has reconsidered and a number of requests submitted (but not all) are going to be granted. Thanks, Frank!

That's good to hear!
In the future, I hope they plan to take steps to avoid the online submission meltdown similar to that of previous event signups.

I would suspect that for many teams, the intent was to submit early (24 hours earlier), instead of 20-30 minutes before the deadline. This was clearly the system that had a problem as I doubt hundreds and hundreds of teams were cramming to get it in a day in advance all at the same time.

[Snapshot]

Update: Frank Merrick, FRC Director, has reconsidered and a number of requests submitted (but not all) are going to be granted. Thanks, Frank!

Any idea how we can find out if ours was granted?