[FTC]: Teams with >10 members

[F Elliott]

I see photos of teams with 12-20 team members in which they all appear to be on the same team --- >10 students posing with one robot.

I thought the maximum number of students you could have on an FTC or FLL team was ten. This year we had seven members but I am anticipating having more than ten next year. I had assumed I would have to have a second team.

How are teams managing this?

Thanks!

[orangemoore]

Our FTC team technically had more than 10 members on our team but we only had one team. This year we had 11 people on the team. Of those we only had about 9 actually participate with FTC the rest have only showed for FRC.

[MattRain]

In the past, teams usually consisted of ten people or less. I know it was a "rule" in the past, but was never really followed, or enforced. As FTC has been growing, it seems like there are a lot more teams out there that have 10+ people.

For an FTC team, at least how we feel, should be no more than 10 people, as the students don't all get to know the robot as well as they should. When an FTC bot is fully put together, only about 2-3 students can really work on the bot at the same time... due to the size.

I know for our team, we are looking at an "interest" growth for next year, moving from the 10 students this year, to 30 students next year. For us, we will not go over 10 people a team, meaning we are probably going to have two more teams join the family, which is going to be interesting..

[WIREDFTC]

Our team has only 5 members, but we really like it anyway! We don't get cheered for much, but we are really close, and get along very well too!

[CENTURION]

If you look at the rules now, it does actually say that 10 is the recommended size, not a hard limit.

[F Elliott]

Interesting. I was told specifically for our Qualifier we would not be allowed to register and badge more than ten students.

[CENTURION]

From the 2013-2014 Mentor's Guide (http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FTC/FTC_Documents/2013-FTCMentorGuide.pdf):


Team Size

Every team is different and there is no "ideal" number of students on a team.
Ultimately, the size of a team is based upon the Mentor’s preference and the
interest of the students.

• The minimum number of students is 1.
• The suggested maximum number of students is 10, though some teams
will be larger than this.

Note: Some events will have a 10 student limit for access to the pit area, so
larger teams should define roles clearly in advance.


I actually didn't notice the last part until now. We've only been a team for two years, but nobody has ever even monitored how many students we had around, much less regulated it.

If they didn't even let you register more than ten students, then it seems they were breaking the rules.

I can understand not allowing more than ten in the pits, due to space concerns. But the team can be more than ten.

[Wingus&Dingus]

Our team has only 5 members, but we really like it anyway! We don't get cheered for much, but we are really close, and get along very well too!

This season we're only 2 members for a host of reasons but still aim to get as much out of the season as possible. Lots of work so time management is super critical for us.

[cosmo]

Historically we have had 6 or 7 kids. This was an ideal number. This season we have 5 seniors and 1 junior. As a result we needed to get more kids on the team to carry it forward. This year we have 18 kids, which is kind of too many. We have an "A" team and a-bot and a "B" team with their own b-bot. We only register one team for events and bring 1 robot. The "B" kids are a developmental team. In some ways it's good to have a lot of kids (fund raising, media materials...) but you can only get a few hands on an 18" robot.

[sandiegodan]

Our team has 11. Rarely do we see them all at once. We only have one picture of them all in full team attire. To answer the question, we find it difficult to manage and it really is too big. We want to gain 3-4 more and split to two teams. It's always a gamble as to who can stick with it through a season. While members may drop, we find it difficult to add students much past November. Carrying a few more is preferable to turning down students to limit size only to come up short mid season because of drops.

[lylecheath]

Well this is interesting, I am from team 4029, and we just got back from worlds.

This season I was the build captain on a team of 53 registered members (about 40 active). The team has a very interesting dynamic, everyone has a specialty, and the two captains of the team mainly do organizing (My co-captain barely ever touches the robot) and although I am the build captain that mostly means facilitating meetings and choosing the direction of the robot and less brainstorming. Another thing to preface all of this, we are almost 100% student run, all the way down to booking hotels and planning our schedule. I put together a pros and cons list for you guys:

PROS:

The prototyping phases are amazing. Hard to manage, but awesome. Every single person has an idea and they put it on a sticky note and we post them all on the board in categories. We get hundreds and spend the next hour or two going through each one and talking about it. Some people remain anonymous and some get vocal but we see so many ideas. With so many people, every idea can see a prototype built as well.
Outreach can be done in massive amounts. We host classes in local elementary schools, and it isn't too much of a hit on losing members during meetings because only 10 of them need to go. It also helps that everyone this year is very enthusiastic about outreach, and I feel we actually are making a large difference on how hundreds of kids in elementary schools look at robotics and engineering.
Scouting at competition is amazing. This year all the way up to worlds every robot in every match had someone watching and noting it's every move. This was all compiled and then was given to the captains so we could strategize for our next match. I can safely say that this scouting has won us many matches before.
Timing conflicts don't matter as much. Even if 10 people can't make it to a meeting, we still have 30 people there.
Driver selection is extensive. We had tryouts, 15 people went through tryouts, and we ended with 4, an A team and a backup team. Our drivers had nerves of steel because we were able to get the best possible combination.
For me at least, it gives me real world experience in a management position. My co-captain and I spent our season managing this team, and it paid off.
Fundraising, although hard to manage can be very large scale. Our fundraisers are hardcore once we get the whole team involved, you haven't seen a bake sale until you have seen 4029 do a bake sale.
The robot is very well developed and tested. If you look at pictures you will see it is a very "Dense" robot. Every part has been given the attention that it needed (minus the flag raiser, but that was a space constraint, and we never really needed it anyways).
Although some may think it impossible, we are a very tight knit group now, and I love my team (most of the time)


CONS

The team needs at least 2 people working extremely hard just to keep the team running. Things can get very stressful, and it has strained friendships inside and outside the team (I also had to put aside schoolwork once we got to later competition)
Some people don't get much time with the robot. This is an obvious one, it doesn't apply to me much being build captain, but I know many want more hands on experience. This is one reason the robot this year was so modular, we could take a piece off and hand it to a group for modification, but with 20 people on build team some feel left out. This wasn't as large of a problem this year because we started a rookie team this year. They build a robot to scrimmage with our main bot, although they don't actually compete. It was a great opportunity for many, and I am very confident in some of the members moving up from the rookie team.
Organizing our programming is hard, coming from many people it needs to be managed clearly.
Some members are just in it for college resumes. It gets irritating, but because of our open doors policy (That is how we got so large in the first place) we learn to deal with it.
Travelling can be a pain to manage. When you ask for a reservation for 40, they hear 14 every single time. Of course that isn't even close to the hardest part, but a fun little anecdote.


Anyways, I hope you all enjoyed that coming from the biggest team in FTC (correct me if I'm wrong). Feel free to ask questions, it does get interesting being 5x the recommended size.

[CENTURION]

Holy what?! 53?

Obviously I'm not a part of your team, and don't know with certainty what's best for you, but I'd consider splitting. You can still pool together for outreach and fundraising and the like, but there have got to be a lot of your students who are left out of the build process.

I've seen ten-person teams who have trouble with people not getting to work on the robot. 53 sounds like a nightmare to me.

Again, if it works for you, that's great, but it sounds insane to me.

[lylecheath]

People join the team knowing what they are getting into, some join some of the local (relatively) smaller teams as well. We started the year with 64, but by our first competition it was down to 53.

We have considered splitting, but part of it is a funding thing, that initial jump to another team costs plenty of money. Also most of the "valuable" members would want to stick together if we split, leaving an A team and B team, which is not something we want.

You are right though, not everyone gets robot time. This is something that we have accepted, but there are so many other things to do on the team that it isn't always a problem. There are so many side projects going on that keep us competitive year to year. One example is our autonomous, it was one of the most versatile at worlds and we are now remaking it from the ground up, but in a format that would be adaptable to future competitions.

On the management side we have been getting closer to perfecting the large team every year, and this year it was a powerhouse, we were competitive all the way up to Edison semi-finals where we lost because of a broken GB. (We now know the tricks behind not breaking the V2s)

[link]

Such a large team sounds interesting and challenging. I wonder if FRC might be a better fit for that many kids on one team. Have you considered a varsity team with a few junior varsity team feeding into the varsity team?

I have noticed that it seems to be getting harder for smaller teams to advance to the upper ranks. There are many advantages to having a team of only 5 or 6 kids as it forces them to develop skills across all the areas just to survive which I think will serve them well in their future careers. But the amount of effort a small team must expend to come close to the bigger teams on things like outreach and scouting is huge. It can be done but I wonder if a recommended size along with an upper limit on size would help keep FTC teams on a more level playing field an be more in the keeping of the FTC spirit.

[safiq10]

Being on a team of 3 people. I have to say I very much enjoyed the experience. Having 3 people on the team made the process of building the robot very easy and also everyone had to learn to do everything. Making us much more diverse and able to adapt very quickly to sticky situations.

Being from a small team it did become very difficult to scout at competition but we quickly solved this by crowd scouting.

I say it is very possible to be a small team and advance very well in your respected region. We advanced to the South Texas Super Regional and we did all our building after FRC practice.