View Full Version : 2014 Greater Toronto East Regional
audietron
06-03-2014, 11:50
I have not found any thread for this regional yet.
Here is the Team list: GTR-E Teams (http://www.usfirst.org/whats-going-on/event/10805/teams?ProgramCode=FRC)
Here is the webcast: http://www.watchfirstnow.com/
Good luck at the competition!
I have not found any thread for this regional yet.
Here is the Team list: GTR-E Teams (http://www.usfirst.org/whats-going-on/event/10805/teams?ProgramCode=FRC)
I have not been able to find a webcast anywhere.
Good luck at the competition!
http://www.watchfirstnow.com/
Christopher149
07-03-2014, 09:52
Did anyone just see Q4? I think we have a new match high score of 420! 250 from teleop, 170 from fouls. Red alliance.
It flowed like the 290 pt match at Palmetto, but with 3 bots.
Mastonevich
07-03-2014, 09:55
The webcast appears offline. bummer
Christopher149
07-03-2014, 09:57
The webcast appears offline. bummer
Well, not on TBA for me.
Mastonevich
07-03-2014, 10:01
Glad to hear it is working for some. Could be an issue for just me being behind firewalls and such.
Tem1514 Mentor
07-03-2014, 10:04
For me the video link is on and off. Just saw parts of the 420 score, lots of fouls.
Matt_Boehm_329
07-03-2014, 10:11
30 auto
220 tele
170 fouls
420 total... Wow
Is there any way to watch this on android without having to pay for the justin.tv app?
Is there any way to watch this on android without having to pay for the justin.tv app?
Twitch.tv (same original company) relatively recently made their streams able to stream from browser on mobile. Not sure if the justin.tv player has caught up yet.
Is there any way to watch this on android without having to pay for the justin.tv app?
Install a flash enabled browser (i suggest FlashFox)
All matches are available for re-viewing just minutes after ending.
Check http://www.watchfirstnow.com/archives frequently.
Thanks Adam, flashfox is working great.
sammyjalex
07-03-2014, 11:38
Did anyone catch what produced the Red Alliance score in Match 4?
plnyyanks
07-03-2014, 11:53
All matches are available for re-viewing just minutes after ending.
Check http://www.watchfirstnow.com/archives/ frequently.
This is 404ing currently...
audietron
07-03-2014, 11:56
Did anyone catch what produced the Red Alliance score in Match 4?
That was just good cycle times with all three robots and a truss toss. Which was the 250 points of the total. The 170 were fouls. It was a really exciting match!
Still not much effective defense going on.
Robotmmm
07-03-2014, 12:39
Still not much effective defense going on.
Exactly.
The MAR event I was at last week was like Battle Bots. Those robots that could not shoot just beat the heck out of those who could. And NE will be even worse. I predict heavy damage to occur and the refs, even with an extra set of eyes, to have a hard time catching all the fouls.
Cullenwelch88
07-03-2014, 12:45
Webcast Down?
Thanks
Cullen
Webcast Down?
Thanks
Cullen
Lunch break. Matches scheduled to resume at 1:04 per thebluealliance (http://www.thebluealliance.com/event/2014onto).
Webcast Down?
Thanks
Cullen
Both streams appear to be running for me. The event is, however, at lunch (being that its 12:45pm here now). Stream 1 is showing the field's slideshow, Stream 2 is just showing the Vexpro logo.
Webcast Down?
Thanks
Cullen
It's lunch break. Streaming the field has stopped
Webcast was working just before the break.
Cullenwelch88
07-03-2014, 12:52
Hello,
Okay thanks for letting me know!
Cullen
My bad, Fixed the url in my original post.
According to the Justintv page for me it's saying there was a copyright DMCA violation and the watchfirstnow channel was taken down :(
Tem1514 Mentor
07-03-2014, 13:27
We heard that a team from Calgary has had their robot lost in transit for this event. :eek: :confused:
Team 2935 that competed in GTRW and went to finals 3-3 with their bot offered to the Calgary team to allow them to borrow 2935's robot. Unfortunately HQ stated that this would have been the greatest GP they have witnessed but have disallowed this to occur as it would be unfair to the other contestants at the event.
Team 2935 fully respects HQ's decision and wishes the best of luck to all our fellow team members at GTRE.
According to the Justintv page for me it's saying there was a copyright DMCA violation and the watchfirstnow channel was taken down :(
We're working on it. We where suposed to be expempt from the DCMA robots. but i guess they forgot.
idahorobot
07-03-2014, 13:44
Any chance of getting the live score on. There is no scoreboard showing.
Tem1514 Mentor
07-03-2014, 13:51
Any chance of getting the live score on. There is no scoreboard showing.
the only place i can find it so far is here;
http://www2.usfirst.org/2014comp/Events/ONTO/matchresults.html
Same here
Both webcasts are down
I have moved the streams to ustream for now. You can find them at
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/gtr-east-2014
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/frc-gtr-east-2013
GTRE1 video froze and GTRE2 page doesnt exist on ustream.
Like, the GTRE1 stream is froze in place and vibrating, but sound is working perfectly fine.
Cullenwelch88
07-03-2014, 14:12
All webcast down now
Fixed now!
Cheers!
GTRE1 video froze and GTRE2 page doesnt exist on ustream.
Like, the GTRE1 stream is froze in place and vibrating, but sound is working perfectly fine.
I'm having the same issue - thought it was my internet (traveling) but yeah - I can't see anything but can hear.
Neither are working. They must be working on the issue as the first one went totally down.
Cullenwelch88
07-03-2014, 14:24
Stream went out again! :(
Watchfirstnow.com is on now
seannoseworthy
07-03-2014, 14:31
Justin.tv had our accounts blocked due to a DCMA request, they have now featured our channels, this shouldn't happen again.
Everything should be running fine now, watch at http://www.justin.tv/watchfirstnow and for the full feild view http://www.justin.tv/watchfirstnow2
Cullenwelch88
07-03-2014, 14:32
Justin.tv had our accounts blocked due to a DCMA request, they have now featured our channels, this shouldn't happen again.
Everything should be running fine now, watch at http://www.justin.tv/watchfirstnow and for the full feild view http://www.justin.tv/watchfirstnow2
Thanks a lot!:yikes: :yikes:
The full field (without scores ) still not online. Showing Offline
seannoseworthy
07-03-2014, 14:34
The full field (without scores ) still not online. Showing Offline
Fixed.
seannoseworthy
07-03-2014, 14:37
Neither page loads.
All should be back to normal now. Try the direct links to the broadcast posted above or at watchfirstnow.com
All should be back to normal now. Try the direct links to the broadcast posted above or at watchfirstnow.com
Thats where I did go. The Justin TV layout loads but the middle part(where the streams should be) stays gray and doesnt load.
Both working on watchfirstnow.com
idahorobot
07-03-2014, 14:38
this works now
http://www.thebluealliance.com/gameday#view_0=2014onto-1&view_1=2014onto-2
Matt_Boehm_329
07-03-2014, 14:48
Does anyone have a score breakdown from match number 18? I believe one of the scores was 261 but i missed it and was unable to see tele-op, auto points, and foul points.
audietron
07-03-2014, 15:31
Does anyone have a score breakdown from match number 18? I believe one of the scores was 261 but i missed it and was unable to see tele-op, auto points, and foul points.
Blue Auto points included 2 10 point goal balls with the second double auto ball from simbotics missing. Only one red ball was scored.
Blue strategy was 2 assists with a truss and high goal 2 technical fouls were called on the red alliance , not sure what for (there is a jump in the stream).
Final score 261 blue , 16 red. around 100 foul points were given to the blue alliance.
Does anyone have a score breakdown from match number 18? I believe one of the scores was 261 but i missed it and was unable to see tele-op, auto points, and foul points.
From the FMS Twitter:
TY Q MC 18 RF 16 BF 261 RA 3988 1075 1547 BA 2198 3386 1114 RFP 0 BFP 100 RHS 15 BHS 50 RTS 1 BTS 111
Red
3988
1075
1547
15 Auto
1 Teleop
0 Foul
Blue
2198
3386
1114
50 Auto
111 Teleop
100 Foul
Blue wins, 261-16
Matt_Boehm_329
07-03-2014, 15:42
From the FMS Twitter:
Fantastic, thanks!
Jonathan Norris
07-03-2014, 18:21
Any update on when the archived matches are going up??
They already are.
EDIT: the search feature doesn't seem to work for events, but it works for teams for me. You could use that if you are having troubles on the WatchFirstNow site.
Duncan Macdonald
07-03-2014, 19:30
They already are.
EDIT: the search feature doesn't seem to work for events, but it works for teams for me. You could use that if you are having troubles on the WatchFirstNow site.
"onto" is the one you want "gtre" leads to no man's land
Duncan Macdonald
07-03-2014, 20:08
Are any of the matches archived yet?
See posts 52-54
"onto" is the one you want "gtre" leads to no man's land
Upon further investigation, it looks like the search feature gets stuck in an infinite loop whenever something that is not the 4-letter regional code is entered. "ONTO" works, but "Greater Toronto East" doesn't, for example.
Michael Hill
08-03-2014, 07:35
I watched a few of these matches yesterday and the gameplay was SO BORING! Do they even play defense in Canada? :D *hides behind a fire door*
Ha ha.. #sobait #simbotrisestothechallenge #fightthroughthetraffic
Tem1514 Mentor
08-03-2014, 13:42
Okay now I don’t get what an assist is, may be someone could help me out.
If robot B passes to the Human player and then the HP passes back to robot C, how did robot C get an assist from robot B?
Just saw it happen in QF1-2
Jay O'Donnell
08-03-2014, 13:46
Okay now I don’t get what an assist is, may be someone could help me out.
If robot B passes to the Human player and then the HP passes back to robot C, how did robot C get an assist from robot B?
Just saw it happen in QF1-2
I think you're misinterpreting what an "assist" really is. It's not about the pass between robots, it's about different robots possessing the ball in different zones. Therefore it doesn't matter if robot B didn't directly pass to robot C as long as they each possessed the ball in a unique zone.
Okay now I don’t get what an assist is, may be someone could help me out.
If robot B passes to the Human player and then the HP passes back to robot C, how did robot C get an assist from robot B?
Just saw it happen in QF1-2
Unique robot in a unique zone.
Because ASSISTs are only related to unique ROBOT/ZONE pairs of POSSESSION.
To use QF1-2 as an example, HP inbounds to 4718 in the blue ZONE. 4718 passes to 3683 in the blue ZONE. 3683 drives to white ZONE, then throws over the TRUSS to the HP. HP passes back to 1114 in the red ZONE, who scores it. 4718/BLUE, 3683/WHITE, 1114/RED. 3 ASSISTs.
Tem1514 Mentor
08-03-2014, 13:59
Unique robot in a unique zone.
Okay fine, then a robot A gets the cycle start ball from the HP then travels through each zone with the ball and scores the ball. So according to “unique zone” robot A did just that so that should be three assists, correct?
Justin Shelley
08-03-2014, 14:01
Okay fine, then a robot A gets the cycle start ball from the HP then travels through each zone with the ball and scores the ball. So according to “unique zone” robot A did just that so that should be three assists, correct?
Must be a unique robot in a unique zone
Okay fine, then a robot A gets the cycle start ball from the HP then travels through each zone with the ball and scores the ball. So according to “unique zone” robot A did just that so that should be three assists, correct?
You might want to go back and take a closer look at the manual. ::rtm::
Tem1514 Mentor
08-03-2014, 14:42
You might want to go back and take a closer look at the manual. ::rtm::
Since the manual, (and yes I did read it) is unclear, I'm asking here since I don't have posting rights on the Q&A.
JohnFogarty
08-03-2014, 14:43
How bout them penalties tho.
eddie12390
08-03-2014, 14:43
Since the manual, (and yes I did read it) is unclear, I'm asking here since I don't have posting rights on the Q&A.
It's unique robot in a unique zone. You can only get an assist for one of the zones that a robot was in. If another robot had possessed the ball at any point they would have two assists.
engunneer
08-03-2014, 14:46
Simbotics just got knocked out in the SF. They haven't missed a finals for a regional since 2009 at the midwest regional.
They were knocked out in the second SF by a opposite possesion error.
and by the #5 alliance even (captained by the 6th seed), which shut the red alliance down pretty effectively in the first SF.
insane matches all around, showing again the super high quality of the ONTO region teams.
pwnageNick
08-03-2014, 14:51
Simbotics just got knocked out in the SF. They haven't missed a finals for a regional since 2009 at the midwest regional.
They were knocked out by a opposite possesion error, and by the #5 alliance even (captained by the 6th seed)
insane matches.
They've only missed the final round of eliminations at a regional 8 times total in their entire history. I bleive they've only missed eliminations all together twice.
Congrats to the blue alliance. A couple of great matches to watch.
-Nick
Being totally fair to 1285/4476/2198,
Blue won SF1-1 on strategy and defense once ahead, and they were forced to play SF1-2 with 2198 disabled.
Cullenwelch88
08-03-2014, 14:53
Pure epic!!!
1285/4476/2198 knocked out the #1 alliance. They knocked out the #1 alliance with 1 robot (2198) disabled too. Wow!!!
What a match!!
I love this years game!!!
Cullen
They were knocked out in the second SF by a opposite possesion error.
They accidentally caught the blue ball after it was shot over the truss. And quickly (as they could) removed it from their robot. I'm not 100% on the rules on this one. But shouldn't that not be a T-Foul?
cmwilson13
08-03-2014, 15:09
They accidentally caught the blue ball after it was shot over the truss. And quickly (as they could) removed it from their robot. I'm not 100% on the rules on this one. But shouldn't that not be a T-Foul?
i agree
They had possession. T foul
Tem1514 Mentor
08-03-2014, 15:14
Wow :ahh: Blue just played F1 with only two bots :yikes:
I wonder why they didn't call for a backup bot:confused:
They had possession. T foul
But it could be argued that the other alliance caused them to take the foul.
Wow :ahh: Blue just played F1 with only two bots :yikes:
I wonder why they didn't call for a backup bot:confused:
1241 spent the match fixing their robot.
1241 spent the match fixing their robot.
Suspect they didn't call for a backup cause winning 2 against 4476/2198/1285 replacing 1241 with a backup would have been more impossible than coming back from losing the first match of the finals.
Duncan Macdonald
08-03-2014, 15:20
It's really hard to replace the second overall pick.
PriyankP
08-03-2014, 15:29
They accidentally caught the blue ball after it was shot over the truss. And quickly (as they could) removed it from their robot. I'm not 100% on the rules on this one. But shouldn't that not be a T-Foul?
i agree
But it could be argued that the other alliance caused them to take the foul.
The rules state that if you possess the wrong ball, it is a technical foul. It explicitly states in the rules that you should design your robot to never possess the opponent's ball - even accidentally.
Now, if the blue team intentionally put the blue ball in the red robot, it would be causing them to take a penalty. But they just went for the truss shot that bounced into the red robot.
Either way, it is really heart breaking when the top seed loses before the finals. Kudos to the blue alliance for playing good defence and having a really well rounded alliance!
engunneer
08-03-2014, 15:33
and now they have taken out the #2 alliance in the finals. Fantastic work all around. Congrats 2198/4476/1285!
But it could be argued that the other alliance caused them to take the foul.
https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Question/104/what-penalties-if-any-will-be-assessed-if-a-robot-unintentionally-catches-an-opponent-s-ball-while-attempting-to-defend-an-opponent-what-if-this-robot-makes-a-good-faith-effort-to-immediat
This q&a addresses the direct question. It does leave the exact situation open to interpretation to the referees, but it does let you know what the GDCs line of thinking is on this situation.
Crazy matches. Crazy tournament.
Not surprised that members of both 4476 and 1285 were at GTRW and took some of the strategic play back east with them.
Gaurav27
08-03-2014, 15:52
Crazy matches. Crazy tournament.
Not surprised that members of both 4476 and 1285 were at GTRW and took some of the strategic play back east with them.
We definitely used strategies both employed and learned from the Greater Toronto West Regional.
Crazy to say the least. I've never seen an eliminations bracket like this, with such extreme circumstances. The penalty values make every match a swing match. Thus, making it heavily reliant on alliance synergy and strategies!
Paul Copioli
08-03-2014, 18:43
The penalty values make every match a swing match.
I agree with this above, but ...
Thus, making it heavily reliant on alliance synergy and strategies!
This makes no sense.
To me, it's more like this: "The penalty values make every match a swing match. Thus, making it heavily reliant on referees implementation and interpretation of the rules."
C'mon guys. 50 pt penalty for inconsequential ball in another teams robot. I understand what the rule says, but think it is stupid. A rule like this should make it so the refs can determine if it was inconsequential to the score or not. Anyone watching this particular situation in SF1-2 could see what happened and the ball was immediately ejected from the robot. It was ejected much faster than even field reset can give the ball back to the human player.
These rules and point values are out of whack. Seriously out of whack. My comments after week 1 still stand.
Crazy game? That's one way of saying it.
I agree with this above, but ...
This makes no sense.
To me, it's more like this: "The penalty values make every match a swing match. Thus, making it heavily reliant on referees implementation and interpretation of the rules."
C'mon guys. 50 pt penalty for inconsequential ball in another teams robot. I understand what the rule says, but think it is stupid. A rule like this should make it so the refs can determine if it was inconsequential to the score or not. Anyone watching this particular situation in SF1-2 could see what happened and the ball was immediately ejected from the robot. It was ejected much faster than even field reset can give the ball back to the human player.
These rules and point values are out of whack. Seriously out of whack. My comments after week 1 still stand.
Crazy game? That's one way of saying it.
I take an opposite view point. It's as important to be able to score as it is to be smart and avoid these types of penalties. I believe any ref at any event would have likely called that possession (which in this case I don't think is very open to interpretation), so it would have been in the best interest of the team to avoid it. Saying that they couldn't is like saying they couldn't effectively do another task like scoring. The penalties in this game put a big emphasis on playing cleanly and designing your robot to play cleanly. Have there been inconsistencies with the refs? Sure, but that happens every year. Bottom line, it was the right call in the way the rules have been written for a game that placed heavy importance on playing cleanly from the very beginning. Some may not like that the game is designed this way, but it's the reality.
Anupam Goli
08-03-2014, 19:04
i know this isn't a YMTC thread, but since we're bringing the point of possesion up...
If I'm lined up for a catch, my ally and opponent both fire, my ally misses, but my opponent's ball ends up in my catcher, what would you call that? I don't see how in a game where catching is an objective, you can design something that doesn't catch opponent's balls on accident.
mman1506
08-03-2014, 19:12
I don't see how in a game where catching is an objective, you can design something that doesn't catch opponent's balls on accident.
254, 1114, our robot and probably quite a few more have mechanisms in place to prevent catching the ball unless they are in their "catching position".
I agree with this above, but ...
This makes no sense.
To me, it's more like this: "The penalty values make every match a swing match. Thus, making it heavily reliant on referees implementation and interpretation of the rules."
C'mon guys. 50 pt penalty for inconsequential ball in another teams robot. I understand what the rule says, but think it is stupid. A rule like this should make it so the refs can determine if it was inconsequential to the score or not. Anyone watching this particular situation in SF1-2 could see what happened and the ball was immediately ejected from the robot. It was ejected much faster than even field reset can give the ball back to the human player.
These rules and point values are out of whack. Seriously out of whack. My comments after week 1 still stand.
Crazy game? That's one way of saying it.
Yes.
My biggest problem with this game isn't just that it is too easy to get fouls. It is that you can get easily get fouls for things which barely hurt the opposing alliance, all these common fouls are technical fouls, technical fouls are worth 50pts a piece, and 50pts are enough to change the outcome of most matches.
Richard Wallace
08-03-2014, 19:16
...A rule like this should make it so the refs can determine if it was inconsequential to the score or not. I'm with you on this, Paul.
However, if we want the refs to determine which robot actions are consequential, we have to let them follow the big picture. As it stands now, they are too busy staring at trees (possessions, trusses, catches, goals) and then waiting for their scoring tablet lags to clear. So they miss the forest. That would not matter in the particular case being discussed here since the rule is very clear -- even if many of us agree it is "out of whack".
Being a ref is hard, any year. This year it is harder because they are also part of the real time scoring system. That is the GDC's mistake.
Abhishek R
08-03-2014, 19:37
254, 1114, our robot and probably quite a few more have mechanisms in place to prevent catching the ball unless they are in their "catching position".
He said the bot was lined up for a catch. I'm not sure what 254 and 1114 have that prevents catching the ball, do they distinguish between the color of the ball and then close the catcher to stop possession of the ball before it enters the bot? I doubt any teams have anything like that, it's unnecessary. I think you interpreted his question in the wrong manner.
Since this is not the catching thread...
Congratulations are in order for 4476, 1285 and 2198 for winning GTRE and 781, 3161 and 5036 for advancing to champs!
I'm wondering if 5036 knows yet that they qualified for champs...
781 has the best Chairman's award video I have ever seen.
mman1506
08-03-2014, 20:20
I'm not sure what 254 and 1114 have that prevents catching the ball, do they distinguish between the color of the ball and then close the catcher to stop possession of the ball before it enters the bot?
The driver should be trained to do that. Not incurring fouls is an important part of the game.
781 has the best Chairman's award video I have ever seen.
I'm not sure I would give it the "best ever" award. But it was absolutely top notch! Congrats to 781!
Yipyapper
08-03-2014, 20:30
781 has the best Chairman's award video I have ever seen.
I could not believe how well it turned out; the members of our awards team made something that I couldn't believe myself. I think by winning the Chairman's award two years in a row, we proved that we weren't just a one-off, and the video is huge proof of that. This isn't just a thing that started this year either--every year, we've been working towards our excellence on both the admin and the build side of our team, and every year of the team deserves incredible mention for their outstanding contributions (from our kilt days to our boring jeans of today).
I won't comment on the game, but I think my feelings are like Gregor's, but even stronger after this competition. The eliminations at the very least were exciting, and it was fun working with our alliance partners 3988 and 3386--I'm sure if 1241 wasn't pulling off that great defence with that fantastic chassis, we would've been able to shoot a lot more goals in the top.
I would also like to thank Karthik for being, once again, a great MC for how often I saw him. He really got our team pumped for the match, regardless of my prior mood or the importance of said match.
Oh, and if anyone was curious, our first few matches were iffy because the sprockets for the left drive's chain had gotten chewed out. I'm sure people noticed the vast improvement afterwards--too bad that took up the time that I (the programmer) could've used for a 2 or 3 ball auto test :rolleyes:
On that note, thanks to Team Dave for delaying the match by like 20 minutes. We would've missed our match for 1114 with the stuff we had to fix if they hadn't delayed.
Tom Line
08-03-2014, 21:02
I take an opposite view point. It's as important to be able to score as it is to be smart and avoid these types of penalties. I believe any ref at any event would have likely called that possession (which in this case I don't think is very open to interpretation), so it would have been in the best interest of the team to avoid it. Saying that they couldn't is like saying they couldn't effectively do another task like scoring. The penalties in this game put a big emphasis on playing cleanly and designing your robot to play cleanly. Have there been inconsistencies with the refs? Sure, but that happens every year. Bottom line, it was the right call in the way the rules have been written for a game that placed heavy importance on playing cleanly from the very beginning. Some may not like that the game is designed this way, but it's the reality.
Have you been on the receiving end of some of these penalties? We've been forced into taking penalties that you literally had no choice about. Getting pushed into an opponents goal, pushed out of bounds, or had a another robot ram your collector while you are motionless, smash it, and YOU receive the 50 point foul for incursion into their bumper region.
The GDC worked on it some, but the penalty points are out of whack, and the refs are still overworked. That said, I suspect this is the game we're playing for the rest of the year. We're in the process of modifying our robot accordingly.
Undertones
08-03-2014, 21:11
781 has the best Chairman's award video I have ever seen.
Is there a link somewhere?
Yipyapper
08-03-2014, 21:19
Is there a link somewhere?
We'll post a link on CD once it gets posted.
Have you been on the receiving end of some of these penalties? We've been forced into taking penalties that you literally had no choice about. Getting pushed into an opponents goal, pushed out of bounds, or had a another robot ram your collector while you are motionless, smash it, and YOU receive the 50 point foul for incursion into their bumper region.
The GDC worked on it some, but the penalty points are out of whack, and the refs are still overworked. That said, I suspect this is the game we're playing for the rest of the year. We're in the process of modifying our robot accordingly.
Yes, our human player once took a 50 point penalty catching a poorly thrown ball from the Field Reset Crew. His hand extended for a short period past the yellow tape.
We've had our intake out to pick up a ball, and been slammed into from the side, and had the intake swipe an opponent's robot inside the frame perimeter as a result. Again a 50 pt penalty.
I'm being 100% honest in saying that both the situations above are very different than what happened in SF1-2. 4718 had the entire half of the field themselves when the opposing ball landed. No other robots pushed them or forced them to go towards the ball. The ball landed feet away from them, and they chose to drive towards it. I've told my drive crew not to play defense on the opposing ball, only the opposing robots - that's how the rules are written due to these tech fouls. We asked the Q&A quoted earlier in this thread to clarify too. "Accidentally" catching a ball was a risk just not worth taking.
I find it hard to say that 4718 was forced into taking this penalty.
My opinion is that they made a mistake driving towards the ball, that ended up being a very costly one.
10/10 times my strategy guys would've said the better move would've been to drive towards the robot expected to pick up the ball and score it, to seal them off from the ball.
I agree there are some "forced" penalties in this game that I have seen, that are less than fair...
...but this is NOT one of them.
Tom Line
08-03-2014, 21:43
Yes, our human player once took a 50 point penalty catching a poorly thrown ball from the Field Reset Crew. His hand extended for a short period past the yellow tape.
We've had our intake out to pick up a ball, and been slammed into from the side, and had the intake swipe an opponent's robot inside the frame perimeter as a result. Again a 50 pt penalty.
I'm being 100% honest in saying that both the situations above are very different than what happened in SF1-2. 4718 had the entire half of the field themselves when the opposing ball landed. No other robots pushed them or forced them to go towards the ball. The ball landed feet away from them, and they chose to drive towards it. I've told my drive crew not to play defense on the opposing ball, only the opposing robots - that's how the rules are written due to these tech fouls. We asked the Q&A quoted earlier in this thread to clarify too. "Accidentally" catching a ball was a risk just not worth taking.
I find it hard to say that 4718 was forced into taking this penalty.
My opinion is that they made a mistake driving towards the ball, that ended up being a very costly one.
10/10 times my strategy guys would've said the better move would've been to drive towards the robot expected to pick up the ball and score it, to seal them off from the ball.
I agree there are some "forced" penalties in this game that I have seen, that are less than fair...
...but this is NOT one of them.
I agree completely with your statement. I disagree with the idea that you can play clean in this game. No matter how smart you pay there is a good chance the rules are going to bite you in the butt. That's bad.
Yipyapper
08-03-2014, 21:52
I agree completely with your statement. I disagree with the idea that you can play clean in this game. No matter how smart you pay there is a good chance the rules are going to bite you in the butt. That's bad.
I disagree. I know of at least 781 and 1114 that did not once get a single foul in any match despite having rough gameplay, and I'm certain many others didn't at GTRE but I hesitate to name them because I'm not 100% sure which didn't.
mman1506
08-03-2014, 21:57
I agree completely with your statement. I disagree with the idea that you can play clean in this game. No matter how smart you pay there is a good chance the rules are going to bite you in the butt. That's bad.
We played HEAVY defense a GTR West with only a single blockading foul that was 100% our driver's fault. There was also only 3 fouls committed by teams on our alliance and they were all because of driver error. Our coach and drivers spent a lot of time training to avoid possible fouls.
sailer99
08-03-2014, 22:01
I agree completely with your statement. I disagree with the idea that you can play clean in this game. No matter how smart you pay there is a good chance the rules are going to bite you in the butt. That's bad.
This comment bugs me. Our alliance spent a lot of time on strategy for each match and we built strategies that would avoid penalties. We made sure drive teams knew what to avoid and that human players were paying attention. Avoiding penalties in this game is similar to penalties in a close hockey game, when you are rushed and stressed to get points you have to take risks that may result in penalties. If you are comfortable in the lead you can take less risks and avoid penalties. I believe our alliance didn't get a signal foul throughout eliminations.
edit- For those wanting to watch the penalties in SF1-2 you can see it here http://www.watchfirstnow.com/archives/88533519 (possession call around 1:30, pin call slightly after)
Duncan Macdonald
08-03-2014, 23:16
This comment bugs me. Our alliance spent a lot of time on strategy for each match and we built strategies that would avoid penalties. We made sure drive teams knew what to avoid and that human players were paying attention. Avoiding penalties in this game is similar to penalties in a close hockey game, when you are rushed and stressed to get points you have to take risks that may result in penalties. If you are comfortable in the lead you can take less risks and avoid penalties. I believe our alliance didn't get a signal foul throughout eliminations.
edit- For those wanting to watch the penalties in SF1-2 you can see it here http://www.watchfirstnow.com/archives/88533519 (possession call around 1:30, pin call slightly after)
Please take the above comments as general commentary on the game, and that you can be penalized without intention or benefiting from the penalized act. SF1-1 strategically was a perfectly executed match and you earned the blue banner fairly. Your alliance had the right robots, planning and good fortune to win it all. How many second year teams have captained a winning alliance from the 5th spot?!
SF1-1 (http://watchfirstnow.com/archives/88532557)
PriyankP
08-03-2014, 23:59
GTR Regionals are VERY competitive and it has almost become a tradition to end it with some sort of controversy. :/
Don't worry though, as Leafs fans have taught us well, there's always the next season! ;)
Controversy aside - Team 2601 would like to thank teams 2994 ASTECHZ and 3173 IgKNIGHTers for their generosity and help. They didn't win the GP award but certainly showed it.
Also thanks to Karthik for speaking at our team meeting :D
GTR Regionals are VERY competitive and it has almost become a tradition to end it with some sort of controversy. :/
I don't see any controversy here. Teams 4476, 1285, and 2198 won the regional fair and square. They had the three things that every winning alliance needs in FIRST; they played smart, they executed a well defined plan, and they had some good fortune. I commend and congratulate them on their well deserved victory; taking down both the #1 and #2 alliances at an event is a larger feat than most people realize.
Cullenwelch88
09-03-2014, 11:16
Hello,
Does anyone know where I can find the recording of the regional? watchfirstnow doesn't seem to be working. Maybe its just me?
Thanks
Cullen
BrennanB
09-03-2014, 11:23
Talk about an awesome event that exceeded all expectations. Thanks to our alliance partners 1285 and 2198. 2198 had an all rookie drive team, so what a great experience for them! Hope you guys had a blast. 1285 wow! It can be hard to be the "other" 1241 team, but you guys are just as impressive as 1241. Awesome work with helping out with the strategy throughout the eliminations, we certainly couldn't have done it without you.
1114, and 3683, and 4718, you guys had a phenomenal alliance. 1114 has a sweet robot, I expect them to come back swinging harder than ever in Waterloo in two weeks. I have been a 3683 fan ever since their elegant 2012 design that worked every time. You guys are long overdue for a championship appearance. Watch out for them in Waterloo too! 4718 our alliance partners from last year, it's awesome to see you guys doing really well. You guys were close to taking the semifinals to what would have been a phenomenal third match, good luck next year!
3710, 1241, and 3173, so cool to have two Kingston teams, and two Rick Hansen teams in the finals. It speaks to the success of the programs in those areas. Thuvishan way to go on the WFFA award! Also 3173, solid defense with a solid drive train. Good luck at FLR, you guys have one of the most ridiculous shooters I have ever seen. Talk about a powerful shot!
Talk about an awesome event that exceeded all expectations. Thanks to our alliance partners 1285 and 2198. 2198 had an all rookie drive team, so what a great experience for them! Hope you guys had a blast. 1285 wow! It can be hard to be the "other" 1241 team, but you guys are just as impressive as 1241. Awesome work with helping out with the strategy throughout the eliminations, we certainly couldn't have done it without you.
1114, and 3683, and 4718, you guys had a phenomenal alliance. 1114 has a sweet robot, I expect them to come back swinging harder than ever in Waterloo in two weeks. I have been a 3683 fan ever since their elegant 2012 design that worked every time. You guys are long overdue for a championship appearance. Watch out for them in Waterloo too! 4718 our alliance partners from last year, it's awesome to see you guys doing really well. You guys were close to taking the semifinals to what would have been a phenomenal third match, good luck next year!
3710, 1241, and 3173, so cool to have two Kingston teams, and two Rick Hansen teams in the finals. It speaks to the success of the programs in those areas. Thuvishan way to go on the WFFA award! Also 3173, solid defense with a solid drive train. Good luck at FLR, you guys have one of the most ridiculous shooters I have ever seen. Talk about a powerful shot!
Brennan,
I think the biggest congratulation this weekend needs to go out to you. Not only for your team's success, but also for your well deserved Dean's List Finalist Award. You're a shining example of why FIRST made the right decision to allow seniors to be nominated this season.
Hello,
Does anyone know where I can find the recording of the regional? watchfirstnow doesn't seem to be working. Maybe its just me?
Thanks
Cullen
Cullen, If you go to http://www.watchfirstnow.com/archives and search by event, Enter event code ONTO and you will find all of the matches!
iVanDuzer
09-03-2014, 14:47
This is a regional that the Cyberfalcons will not forget for a very long time. I can list off a million people and teams I could thank for making GTRE so amazing, but I need to thank some in particular:
The refs and technical staff: I've never encountered a crew more accommodating. Thank you for listening and addressing our concerns about missed assist points. It's truly appreciated.
Our alliance partners: 1241, it was an honour to work with you. You have a fantastic robot and great game sense. You guys drive your robot like you stole it, and it's amazing to see. Hopefully we can work together to bring home a blue banner in the near future!
To 3173, wow. For those who don't know, they had an amazingly beautiful arm that had quite a punch, but we were looking for a robot we could throw a ramp on for easy assists. There aren't too many teams that would be willing, much less enthusiastic, to dismantle a big chunk of their robot to suit another team's strategy, but you were. What can I say? True team players, and shining exemplars of what FIRST is all about.
To the regional winners, 4476, 1285, and 2198: Congratulations! As much as we wished we were 100% for both finals matches, I'm not sure it would have made a difference! You guys had a great strategy and executed it to a T. To the WAFFLES, if we had to lose, we were glad it was to our Ktown buddies. Also, congratulations Brennan for your Dean's List Finalist Award. See you at North Bay!
This game is very exciting. To our friends south of the border, look out. We have a lot of strength beyond the perennial powerhouses of 1114/2056. The theory6 twins, 1310/610/188 and many others are fast improving. Waterloo, north bay and windsor will be awesome.
jmaxwell
09-03-2014, 18:16
Thank you to everyone who worked to host this excellent regional. What an honor it was to play the game with two great teams...1241 and 1370!
Congratulations to 4476, 1285 and 2198 for putting together the winning alliance and executing a great strategy.
Coming to Canada was great. Everyone of the teams we met were so accommodating and friendly. It was a great experience; we loved every minute.
Yipyapper
09-03-2014, 19:43
What took 2013 so long to get picked (well, they weren't picked, they were 7th alliance captains)? They boasted an incredible robot, and I believe they were 3rd on our pick list right below Dave and Simbotics.
Duncan Macdonald
09-03-2014, 20:04
What took 2013 so long to get picked (well, they weren't picked, they were 7th alliance captains)? They boasted an incredible robot, and I believe they were 3rd on our pick list right below Dave and Simbotics.
Different robots have different values to different teams based on compatibility. A great finisher wants robots with great truss and passing ability for example. That and some teams don't scout or scout well.
We were almost sure someone would pick us up but alas it didn't go that way and were happy we had put together a picklist.
Different robots have different values to different teams based on compatibility. A great finisher wants robots with great truss and passing ability for example. That and some teams don't scout or scout well.
I would love to hear some feedback as to what our machine's weaknesses were or why we weren't a desirable pick so that the team can improve.
The discussion for us on Facebook today has been what to change for North Bay but the team is at a loss as to what needs improving. Aside from a few mechanical improvements aimed at mitigating wear and adding an extra 25lbs to our bumpers and chassis so that we can maximize our drivetrain's pushing abilities combined with driver practice, we haven't had many ideas. To my knowledge we never incurred any penalties ourselves.
We lost a couple matches partly due to mechanical failures caused by 1) bearing failure in reloader drive initiated by someone forgetting to install lock collar during assembly, 2) disconnected battery due to lack of tie-wrapping connector, 3) faulty connector on loaned battery lost connection during gameplay. All have been addressed so hopefully we can do better next time.
Some luck and/or more vigilant referees are my only requests. Or that the GDC lowers the penalty values.
Yipyapper
09-03-2014, 21:31
We were almost sure someone would pick us up but alas it didn't go that way and were happy we had put together a picklist.
I would love to hear some feedback as to what our machine's weaknesses were or why we weren't a desirable pick so that the team can improve.
The discussion for us on Facebook today has been what to change for North Bay but the team is at a loss as to what needs improving. Aside from a few mechanical improvements aimed at mitigating wear and adding an extra 25lbs to our bumpers and chassis so that we can maximize our drivetrain's pushing abilities combined with driver practice, we haven't had many ideas. To my knowledge we never incurred any penalties ourselves.
We lost a couple matches partly due to mechanical failures caused by 1) bearing failure in reloader drive initiated by someone forgetting to install lock collar during assembly, 2) disconnected battery due to lack of tie-wrapping connector, 3) faulty connector on loaned battery lost connection during gameplay. All have been addressed so hopefully we can do better next time.
Some luck and/or more vigilant referees are my only requests. Or that the GDC lowers the penalty values.
I'm not sure if you got your two-ball auto working or not, but if you did, I can't think of anything either. Everything about the robot was very strong and, really, I'd put it in any position--defense, truss, scoring, it can do it all really well.
I'd also try and make a hot autonomous instead if you have the two-ball auto working, since I don't think I remember anything with hot going on on the practice field. Anything to improve, I guess.
I'm not sure if you got your two-ball auto working or not
It's dialed in and working now. It seems the only thing that changes are the variability of the balls. A slightly harder ball (and the field balls were HARD) transfers energy so much better that they hit high. The plan to increase the accuracy, so far, is to increase the power level of the shooter and adjust the release point to take as much parabola out of the shot as possible. All of GTRE we were running the lightest of four settings for the springs on or shooter so we are going to try cranking them up to turn it into a line-drive as much as possible. We're just worried about the affects it will have on the driver's teleop aiming/shooting and the ability of the field staff to retrieve scored balls.
The team has provisions for a camera and code working which detects the hot goal but we are very weak in the programming department and haven't been able to successfully integrate it with our autonomous routine. If anyone is interested in helping us try and get it integrated in North Bay, we're always looking for help! We owe Jeff from the Igknightors 3173 huge for helping us rewrite our reloading algorithm to eliminate errors caused by jostled limit switches.
If anyone is interested in helping us try and get it integrated in North Bay, we're always looking for help! We owe Jeff from the Igknightors 3173 huge for helping us rewrite our reloading algorithm to eliminate errors caused by jostled limit switches.
Feel free to PM me. 610 has some sample code that you may be able to re-use. See you in North Bay!
The Greater Toronto East Regional was nothing short of excellence. With the help of some awesome volunteers, staff and planners, this was an event that was run flawlessly.
We were very happy to be in an alliance with the number two seed captain 3710 and 3173. The moment we saw this alliance form we knew it was going to be a good one. 3710's robot was solid all competition long and was more than what we could have hoped for in a partner. 3173, the team who traveled up all the way from Rochester, thank you for coming down to Canada! You guys were extremely cooperative alliance partners and it was really easy to work with your team. We truly couldn't have made it as far as we did without either of you!
To the regional champions 4476, 1285 and 2198, congrats! You guys had a phenomenal strategy right from the beginning. It was cool to see our close friends the W.A.F.F.L.E.S take home the banner with our "sister" team The Big Bang. You guys got a stellar 2nd pick, 2198, which just goes to show what good scouting can do, especially in a game filled with assists.
To the Chairman's award winners, 781! You guys truly deserved that award with everything you have done. Your video was beautifully laid out, it was one of the most creative videos that I had ever seen. You guys defended your Chairman's title at GTRE successfully, now show the world what you guys are made of in St. Louis!
I also wanted to congratulate both Deans List winners, Brennan Bibic and Darby Watterworth for a very well deserved recognition! I haven't had the opportunity to personally meet Darby, but I did get a chance to talk to her teammates and they had nothing but amazing things to say about you! Brennan, you deserved every bit of that award as Karthik mentioned above. You have been doing so much on and off the field since you got involved, you and your family are an inspiration to us all!
Congratulations to Honson Lam on the Volunteer of the Year Award, you have been helping out FIRST for numerous years now and you have taken on a multitude of positions. I was incredibly happy to hear your name called out as the Volunteer of the Year.
The referees did a fantastic job at this tournament. Referees usually don't get much credit, and this year's game in specific doesn't help with that. Referees have the tough jobs of ensuring that all the game rules are enforced. I understand that referees aren't perfect, but you guys did a really good job of making sure all the calls were accounted for. Big props goes out to the Head Referee Pranit Trivedi, for ensuring all the referees were on the same page, you did a stellar job man!
And to teams 1114 and 3683, both of which have amazing robots, we look forward to competing with and against you in two weeks at Waterloo!
Finally, Thuvishan Rajagulasingam, its a mouth full. But congratulations bud on your WFFA, you were more than deserving of that piece of special hardware. You not only helped form this team into the image we have today but you have helped sustain it. You are an amazing friend, mentor and leader, keep doing what you're doing. I guess big things do really come in little packages.
Jack_poldon
10-03-2014, 22:14
We were almost sure someone would pick us up but alas it didn't go that way and were happy we had put together a picklist.
I would love to hear some feedback as to what our machine's weaknesses were or why we weren't a desirable pick so that the team can improve.
The discussion for us on Facebook today has been what to change for North Bay but the team is at a loss as to what needs improving. Aside from a few mechanical improvements aimed at mitigating wear and adding an extra 25lbs to our bumpers and chassis so that we can maximize our drivetrain's pushing abilities combined with driver practice, we haven't had many ideas. To my knowledge we never incurred any penalties ourselves.
We lost a couple matches partly due to mechanical failures caused by 1) bearing failure in reloader drive initiated by someone forgetting to install lock collar during assembly, 2) disconnected battery due to lack of tie-wrapping connector, 3) faulty connector on loaned battery lost connection during gameplay. All have been addressed so hopefully we can do better next time.
Some luck and/or more vigilant referees are my only requests. Or that the GDC lowers the penalty values.
First of all, I really liked your team's bot ever since your release video on FRC Top 25 and I was surprised by some of the picks in alliance selection. Very solid design and great manufacturing.
I can't speak to what the other alliances were looking for, but our alliance was looking for a robot to play the second robot in a three pass cycle and that could also truss down field. Your team would obviously fill that role but we felt that the truss shot was harder to track down and passing was slightly less efficient than a couple other bots. There were very small differences between your bot and bot we eventually picked in 1285 (honestly, if 1285 was picked up before we had a chance to pick, your team was our next option).
From what I saw in alliance selection was that the alliances above ours were choosing alliances based on very specific strategies (like 1114 with the truss to the human player and 1503 with the catching strategy).
When I first saw the game release, I started to think that very strategic picks will be made for eliminations, more so than in past years and that great robots won't be paired up with necessarily be on the top alliances.
I think to improve, your team needs to show a strategy more centered around passing and the 3 pass cycle. If your team does that and continues to work on your autonomous mode, you are a sure shot for the top alliances in alliance selection. Also, maneuverability of the drive might be comprised if you add additional weight to your bumpers. Just something to think about.
Lastly, 2013 has deserved to have qualified for Champs in the past few years. Keep chugging along and good things will happen. I really hope this year is the year that you guys make it to Champs. See you in North Bay (hopefully champs too) and good luck in Calgary.
Yipyapper
10-03-2014, 22:35
Lastly, 2013 has deserved to have qualified for Champs in the past few years. Keep chugging along and good things will happen. I really hope this year is the year that you guys make it to Champs. See you in North Bay (hopefully champs too) and good luck in Calgary.
I want this so bad. Them and Dave really deserve a shot at champs, and I know I at the very least will be paying close attention to North Bay to see if 2013 makes it. I have a great time talking to them every year, and the guy that did alliance selections at GTRE sounds like one of the most friendly and funny guys you can have on a drive team.
Cybergnomes have such a brilliant robot, though, so I don't think they'll have too hard of a time making champs if they can come up with some sound strategies at North Bay.
Jack_poldon
10-03-2014, 22:44
I want this so bad. Them and Dave really deserve a shot at champs, and I know I at the very least will be paying close attention to North Bay to see if 2013 makes it.
Couldn't agree more with you. Both teams have have great robots the last few years and are all around great teams. If they don't qualify through an award or by winning a regional, I really hope the wild card comes into play.
Teams like 2013 and 3683 are they reason why the wild card was introduced.
Duncan Macdonald
10-03-2014, 23:12
I think to improve, your team needs to show a strategy more centered around passing and the 3 pass cycle.
I sent them the opposite advice by PM :ahh:. I agree that a 3 pass cycle is a valid strategy, but only when you have the robots. Watch some of their matches, they are a very cooperative team and don't complete many qualification cycles because they are waiting for weaker partner to get possession. I advised them to focus on 2 assist cycles with a truss, fewer assists per cycle in exchange for more cycles.
Jack_poldon
11-03-2014, 00:13
I sent them the opposite advice by PM :ahh:. I agree that a 3 pass cycle is a valid strategy, but only when you have the robots. Watch some of their matches, they are a very cooperative team and don't complete many qualification cycles because they are waiting for weaker partner to get possession. I advised them to focus on 2 assist cycles with a truss, fewer assists per cycle in exchange for more cycles.
You bring up a good point. I was speaking more to eliminations where the 3 pass seems to be used as an effective strategy (depending on your alliance).
Additionally, by practicing the 2 pass and truss strategy, you are essentially practicing different elements to a number of other viable strategies (trussing, passing and shooting). I think everyone can agree that the 2013 bot is well suited for this years game and with continued practice and hard work they are bound for success.
beardie88
11-03-2014, 01:32
GTR East sure was an exciting event. Congrats to teams 1285, 2198, and 4476 they really showed how important strategy is this year. It was great to work with team 4476 and 1114 in quals match 4. 420 is a very high score so early in competition even with fouls. I think all three of these robots were operating better on day 3 and had that match happened later the score could have been even higher. Team 781 had an amazing chairmans video, they really defended their title. It was great to compete with and against so many great teams. We'll be ready to compete in waterloo during week 4.
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