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View Full Version : Pneumatics board for 2015, is it in the KOP?

MrBasse
10-09-2014, 17:57
I haven't been able to find an answer for what I need to know and my google-fu seems to be lacking a bit lately. Is the pneumatics board included inthe kit of parts this year? With the move to most pneumatics stuff to FIRST Choice lately and the announcement to reserve a board from Andymark to guarantee you get one, I just want to make sure that I don't miss my opportunity.

Thanks!
cgmv123
10-09-2014, 18:04
Kate Pilotte said at Championship that whatever is required to run a robot will be in the Kickoff Kit. Since the Pneumatic Control Module will not be required to run a robot, it will most likely not be in the Kickoff Kit, but I expect it to be available via FIRST Choice.
Joe Ross
10-09-2014, 18:12
The following was posted by Kate on 8/20 at http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-2015-Control-System-KOP-Survey

Hi Aidan,

Generally, the contents of the Kit of Parts is remain confidential until Kickoff - that being said, we do think we'll be making an announcement to teams later in the fall regarding control system components that will and will not be distributed to teams via the Kickoff Kit. Items available in FIRST Choice will be visible to teams before the site goes live for ordering. Stay tuned to this blog for that detail as it's published.
AdamHeard
10-09-2014, 18:13
Kate Pilotte said at Championship that whatever is required to run a robot will be in the Kickoff Kit. Since the Pneumatic Control Module will not be required to run a robot, it will most likely not be in the Kickoff Kit, but I expect it to be available via FIRST Choice.

For what it's worth, the equivalent of it was in the previous KOP for the cRIO.

I'd be pretty miffed if we don't get it.
MrBasse
10-09-2014, 18:18
For what it's worth, the equivalent of it was in the previous KOP for the cRIO.

I'd be pretty miffed if we don't get it.

That's what I'm worried about, I know we can build a robot and compete without pneumatics but we have grown pretty confident in our use of them and have a very good supply of cylinders and tubing. It would be a shame to not be provided the board with the new control system...
Tom Line
10-09-2014, 18:37
Keep in mind that there are relays on the roboRIO, and that you can run the pneumatics system from those in the same way you do currently. In fact, the same VI's for running the pneumatic system are still present in the Beta version of LabVIEW for FRC. Of course, this is pending the 2015 rules, but I can't imagine a reason not to allow it.

I agree having the pneumatic control module included would be nice though, if only to free up relays for other things.
MrBasse
10-09-2014, 19:29
Keep in mind that there are relays on the roboRIO, and that you can run the pneumatics system from those in the same way you do currently. In fact, the same VI's for running the pneumatic system are still present in the Beta version of LabVIEW for FRC. Of course, this is pending the 2015 rules, but I can't imagine a reason not to allow it.

I agree having the pneumatic control module included would be nice though, if only to free up relays for other things.

Will the relays on the roboRIO support 24V? I was under the impression they were only 12V.
cgmv123
10-09-2014, 19:51
Will the relays on the roboRIO support 24V? I was under the impression they were only 12V.

The "relays" on the RoboRIO are relay outputs for Spikes. Spikes only support 12v.
MrBasse
10-09-2014, 20:01
The "relays" on the RoboRIO are relay outputs for Spikes. Spikes only support 12v.

That's what I thought, thanks for confirming. So basically we should hope for continued transparency come later in the fall. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will not be a FIRST Choice item. I don't know if I could ever consider my luck with FIRST Choice to be good...
FrankJ
10-09-2014, 22:32
You will need the pneumatic board for the compressor. Presumably. Available for preorder from andymark along with the new PD board.

If I never use another spike, I will die happy.
EricH
10-09-2014, 22:47
My $0.02: If the pneumatics board is not in the KOP next year, it will be the very first time that any portion of the robot control system has not been included in the KOP in at least its introductory year*. I have a very hard time picturing no board in the KOP totes.

That said, this is also the first time pneumatic control has actually been completely optional (in previous years, it came bundled as part of the RC, Sidecar, or Breakout functionalities, depending on system and preferred option).



*Aside from the years when the control system had to go back to FIRST after the competition season, of course, and even then they were reissued every year.
Bob Steele
12-09-2014, 15:21
The "relays" on the RoboRIO are relay outputs for Spikes. Spikes only support 12v.

I believe that the Pneumatics module can be set for either 24 volt or 12 volt but I am not completely sure.

If you have pneumatics they will NOT be able to be run exclusively through the RoboRio without the pneumatics board as far as a I know. The RoboRio CAN handle 4 spike relays for pneumatics BUT you will need the pneumatics board to run the pressure switch, and to control the compressor.

I would find it highly unlikely that this would not be included in the KOP.

For a comparison of the two systems go to:
http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2014/2015_CS_Handout.pdf
Joe Ross
12-09-2014, 15:36
I believe that the Pneumatics module can be set for either 24 volt or 12 volt but I am not completely sure.
Correct

If you have pneumatics they will NOT be able to be run exclusively through the RoboRio without the pneumatics board as far as a I know. The RoboRio CAN handle 4 spike relays for pneumatics BUT you will need the pneumatics board to run the pressure switch, and to control the compressor.


The roboRIO supports Digital inputs and spike relay outputs just like the cRIO. They can be used to read the pressure switch and run the compressor, just like the cRIO. It's 1 line of code to control the compressor based on the pressure switch.

I haven't seen the 2015 rules, but I wouldn't necessarily draw the conclusion that the PCM will be the only way to run a compressor and pressure switch. My opinion is that it will probably be the only legal way to run 24v solenoids.. The only reason I could think of for the rules to require the PCM for compressor and pressure switch is for ease of inspection.
Bob Steele
12-09-2014, 16:29
Correct



The roboRIO supports Digital inputs and spike relay outputs just like the cRIO. They can be used to read the pressure switch and run the compressor, just like the cRIO. It's 1 line of code to control the compressor based on the pressure switch.

I haven't seen the 2015 rules, but I wouldn't necessarily draw the conclusion that the PCM will be the only way to run a compressor and pressure switch. My opinion is that it will probably be the only legal way to run 24v solenoids.. The only reason I could think of for the rules to require the PCM for compressor and pressure switch is for ease of inspection.

I guess we will find out.
jfitz0807
18-09-2014, 18:28
The following link has pictures of the VRM, PCM, PDM and RoboRio. The PCM shows a jumper that looks like it can be used to select 12V or 24V output.

http://www.fightingpi.org/Resources/Controls/Beta/2015_Beta/Introduction.shtml