Registration 2015

[Mark McLeod]

2700 teams (7 shy of last seasons final)

[JB987]

Wonder how many signed up last year between now and Kickoff?

[Mark McLeod]

Wonder how many signed up last year between now and Kickoff?
341
but they didn't all stick around.
Net ended up being 251.

[Mark McLeod]

Here is where the missing 312 teams are from.
Some, like Israel, are traditionally later to register, so it's not unusual for them.
And some are undoubtedly hidden on waitlists to appear later when their event assignment comes through.

88.5% have returned from last year.
11.5% are still missing.

Longest missing resurrected veteran team is Team 1481, RoboRaiders from Farmington Hills, MI who last played 8 years ago in 2007.

P.S.
Based on typical team retention rates, ~244 of last seasons team's will not put in an appearance this season.
But on a lighter note, about 12% or 29 of these teams that go missing this year will reappear during the next four seasons.

[Nathan Rossi]

Typically, at what time do teams get registered or rejected for an event from the wait-list? Does it vary greatly from region to region?

[Mark McLeod]

It's pretty region dependent.
Sometimes a bunch of them do it at the same time, so the RDs may be triggered by a push from FIRST HQ.

Case in point were the two Minnesota events North Star & 10,000 Lakes where the waitlists were pretty cleared by the beginning of October.

FIRST doesn't have a rejection step for teams (which benefit the teams involved), so you have to watch out for yourself.

[allgoodthehood]

Today my coach, who is a member of the Double DECCer planning committee, told me that both the Northern Lights and Lake Superior regionals are full. However on FIRST's website, along with Blue Alliance, show they aren't full. Why is that, is my coach mistaken, are they just slow to updating, or what?

[EricH]

Today my coach, who is a member of the Double DECCer planning committee, told me that both the Northern Lights and Lake Superior regionals are full. However on FIRST's website, along with Blue Alliance, show they aren't full. Why is that, is my coach mistaken, are they just slow to updating, or what?
I'm seeing zero open capacity at 42 and 49 teams respectively on the FIRST site.

Now, I'm willing to bet that that isn't actually the max capacity, but rather that some teams are a little slow coming off of the waitlist and thus aren't shown yet.

[Jon Stratis]

Today my coach, who is a member of the Double DECCer planning committee, told me that both the Northern Lights and Lake Superior regionals are full. However on FIRST's website, along with Blue Alliance, show they aren't full. Why is that, is my coach mistaken, are they just slow to updating, or what?

There are enough teams on the waitlist to fill both events to capacity. The wait, currently, is probably due to the RD waiting for a couple last rookies to sign up before clearing the list. I believe final capacity for both events is going to be around 60 teams- that was the plan last year, we just didn't quite make it that high.

[Boe]

Today my coach, who is a member of the Double DECCer planning committee, told me that both the Northern Lights and Lake Superior regionals are full. However on FIRST's website, along with Blue Alliance, show they aren't full. Why is that, is my coach mistaken, are they just slow to updating, or what?

A bunch of teams were brought in off the wait list this morning bring the totals to 52 at Northern Lights and 57 at Lake Superior.

[Alpha Beta]

Here's a link. (http://173.255.246.196/)

Right now it updates every hour. Starting tomorrow at noon EDT it will update every 5 minutes or so, tapering back off to every hour.

Loving this quick view of open availability. We're in the market for a 3rd regional event this year.

[Allison K]

Looks like Michigan might be needing that rumored 17th district event, as FiM is at 316 teams (the 16 current district events have a capacity for 320 teams). Spreadsheet with details here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r5S4hem5_14fOz979EUEd2U-i1jELerbEDJtJ7rxr_Y/edit?usp=sharing). Other tidbits...


FiM is still missing 20 veterans that competed in 2014. 8 of those were rookies in 2014. I expect at least of few of the missing teams are hidden on waitlists. The overall retention rate at the moment is 92.8%.
Michigan currently has 58 rookies, 21% of all 2015 current rookies.
About 160 Michigan teams are on waitlists for at least one event. This doesn't include missing teams, so the actual number is higher.

[stufflikethat]

Is anyone having trouble signing up for a third district right now. When we go to the signup page we see all of the available regionals but do not see any district events.

[Mark McLeod]

Today unrestricted Regional signup opened.

Additional District signup won't be until Dec. 11

-----------
Pre-waitlist Regionals are disappearing.
Those with remaining advertised slots 20 minutes after noon are:
Mexico
Israel
Waterloo
Central Illinois
Hub City
Windsor Essex

[Travis Hoffman]

Loving this quick view of open availability. We're in the market for a 3rd regional event this year.

Welcome to Queen City. I see 233 will be taking their talents to Ohio as well. Should be a fun event!

[AdamHeard]

What events still have openings?

[Travis Hoffman]

What events still have openings?

http://173.255.246.196/

[Wetzel]

What events still have openings?

These are the only ones without a waitlist at this time.
Mexico
Israel
Waterloo
Central Illinois
Hub City
Windsor Essex

[sanddrag]

Still can't wait list for a previously dropped event.

[lynca]

These are the only ones without a waitlist at this time.
Central Illinois
Hub City

Only two USA Regionals with available spots, and Central Illinois only has 1 spot left.

Who wants to travel to Lubbock, Texas - Week 5 for the only available Regional in the country ?

[AdamHeard]

Still can't wait list for a previously dropped event.

Have you talked to the RD?

[Wetzel]

Only two USA Regionals with available spots, and Central Illinois only has 1 spot left.

Who wants to travel to Lubbock, Texas - Week 5 for the only available Regional in the country ?

2914 traveled to Lubbock last year. The regional itself was great. Plenty of space in the pits and close by hotels. We had to split into two groups for the flight home though, with different layovers, and the school business manager put me as the only adult with 8 freshmen/sophomores, whilst the other three adults were with the 7 juniors/seniors. :mad:

Wetzel

[Rick]

Looks like Michigan might be needing that rumored 17th district event, as FiM is at 316 teams (the 16 current district events have a capacity for 320 teams). Spreadsheet with details here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r5S4hem5_14fOz979EUEd2U-i1jELerbEDJtJ7rxr_Y/edit?usp=sharing). Other tidbits...

FiM is still missing 20 veterans that competed in 2014. 8 of those were rookies in 2014. I expect at least of few of the missing teams are hidden on waitlists. The overall retention rate at the moment is 92.8%.
Michigan currently has 58 rookies, 21% of all 2015 current rookies.
About 160 Michigan teams are on waitlists for at least one event. This doesn't include missing teams, so the actual number is higher.

When is FiM going to split? North/South or East/West?

If FRC allows 600 teams for the championship, and gives districts spots based on % of overall teams (eventually), the FiM State Championship will qualify nearly every team at the state championship.

Cleary Michigan is doing something right with grants when a single state can boast over 11% of all teams worldwide. It's a good problem to have.

[Basel A]

When is FiM going to split? North/South or East/West?

If FRC allows 600 teams for the championship, and gives districts spots based on % of overall teams (eventually), the FiM State Championship will qualify nearly every team at the state championship.

Cleary Michigan is doing something right with grants when a single state can boast over 11% of all teams worldwide. It's a good problem to have.

The short (and unofficial) answer on splitting is no. I simply can't think of a single proponent of such a plan. Also, at this point it's likely that even with 11%, Michigan won't qualify everyone at MSC.

I've heard rumors of 2 districts (weeks 1 & 2), but so far they're been just that, rumors. Hopefully FiM can get their act together before 3rd district registration. Would love for teams to switch to earlier events so there's more space for us to play a local 3rd in week 5 or 6 (local being especially important what with the travel to MSC).

[PayneTrain]

2914 traveled to Lubbock last year. The regional itself was great. Plenty of space in the pits and close by hotels. We had to split into two groups for the flight home though, with different layovers, and the school business manager put me as the only adult with 8 freshmen/sophomores, whilst the other three adults were with the 7 juniors/seniors. :mad:

Wetzel

Layovers out of Texas into the northeast are really fun when you go to an early Texas event (Week 1 Alamo for us, Week 2 Hub City for 2914) with 70 degree temps only to get flights delayed or cancelled from major snowstorms in Newark... :D

Lubbock looks like it has a good venue for an FRC event, but I imagine travel can be a little challenging like it was to SA.

[Cory]

The short (and unofficial) answer on splitting is no. I simply can't think of a single proponent of such a plan. Also, at this point it's likely that even with 11%, Michigan won't qualify everyone at MSC.

I've heard rumors of 2 districts (weeks 1 & 2), but so far they're been just that, rumors. Hopefully FiM can get their act together before 3rd district registration. Would love for teams to switch to earlier events so there's more space for us to play a local 3rd in week 5 or 6 (local being especially important what with the travel to MSC).

11% of 600 is 66 spots. MSC is 64 spots, no?

[Richard Wallace]

11% of 600 is 66 spots. MSC is 64 spots, no?
MSC has had 64 spots for several years now. In the first year that was about half the teams in Michigan. Now it is about one-sixth.

When California has a state championship, what fraction of teams will earn invitations?

[MrBasse]

The short (and unofficial) answer on splitting is no. I simply can't think of a single proponent of such a plan. Also, at this point it's likely that even with 11%, Michigan won't qualify everyone at MSC.

I've heard rumors of 2 districts (weeks 1 & 2), but so far they're been just that, rumors. Hopefully FiM can get their act together before 3rd district registration. Would love for teams to switch to earlier events so there's more space for us to play a local 3rd in week 5 or 6 (local being especially important what with the travel to MSC).

What do you mean by "get their act together" exactly? What isn't going well right now from your point of view? And are you being serious about the travel to MSC?

[EricH]

When California has a state championship, what fraction of teams will earn invitations?
California is listed as 298 teams (including 16 un-numbered rookies). Last number Mark gave for total registration was 2700.

Taking out those rookies for now: 10.4% of FRC.
Leaving the rookies in: 11% of FRC.

600 teams at Championship gives somewhere between 60 and 66 slots to CA depending which number you're using at the moment. Currently, the 7 regionals (that are all full) in CA supply 42 teams.

Assuming CA runs a state championship as large as its largest current event (66 teams at Los Angeles), that's about 22% of teams in the state, and most of 'em would be just about guaranteed a spot at CMP. OTOH, I'd anticipate the number of teams going up as word got around--might see some former teams returning, driving percentage down.

[Anthony Galea]

Kentwood FIM District added Week 2

[Basel A]

11% of 600 is 66 spots. MSC is 64 spots, no?

The location for MSC is listed as "to be determined," and I don't believe it'll return to its current location. I'm not at all affiliated with FiM, but anyone from Michigan who's been paying attention to the goings-on would tell you the most pressing reason to move away from the past location would be to make MSC larger. A 64-team MSC brings in the top ~20%, which is too low. In my opinion, the ideal is around ~30%, which this year would be over 90 teams. My guess is as good as anyone's, but I'd put money on a significant increase in the number of teams at MSC this year.

What do you mean by "get their act together" exactly? What isn't going well right now from your point of view? And are you being serious about the travel to MSC?

This addition of Kentwood now mostly alleviates my concerns. When trying to plan a team's schedule, it's nice to know the options ahead of time. Also when events are added late, they tend to create large disparities in level of competition between districts. These are both bad for the teams at large.

As for MSC, if we don't know where it is, we have to at least consider every possibility. I am choosing not to assume it'll be where it always has been in the past.

[GaryVoshol]

VIMS told me I was volunteering for MSC in Ypsilanti.

[MrBasse]

That makes sense on all counts. The addition of kent wood would have been nice before 2nd event registration for us as we could have avoided a hotel stay altogether.

I can't even think of another location for MSC. You know it will be close to the east side though, there are just so many teams in the metro Detroit area. Usually it is better to keep the masses happy. Although somewhere in the Lansing (MSU, wink wink nod nod) area would be just fine by me.

[Basel A]

That makes sense on all counts. The addition of kent wood would have been nice before 2nd event registration for us as we could have avoided a hotel stay altogether.

I can't even think of another location for MSC. You know it will be close to the east side though, there are just so many teams in the metro Detroit area. Usually it is better to keep the masses happy. Although somewhere in the Lansing (MSU, wink wink nod nod) area would be just fine by me.

There's a site here (http://www.worldstadiums.com/north_america/countries/united_states/michigan.shtml) that lists all the stadiums and arenas in Michigan. Removing the outdoor venues and the small venues (below 7,000 seating capacity; Convocation Center is 8,800) leaves ten. Several probably wouldn't have the requisite pit space. There are some possibilities outside the list - convention centers, mostly - but you're right, there simply aren't many options.

Here are those ten:
Name Location Tenants Capacity
Pontiac Silverdome Pontiac Multi-use 80 311
Ford Field Detroit Detroit Lions 64 500
Palace of Auburn Hills Auburn Hills Detroit Pistons 22 076
Joe Louis Arena Detroit Detroit Red Wings 20 066
Breslin Center East Lansing Michigan State Spartans 14 992
Crisler Arena Ann Arbor Michigan Wolverines 13 609
Van Andel Arena Grand Rapids Grand Rapids Griffins 10 834
Calihan Hall Detroit Detroit Titans 8 837
Convocation Center Ypsilanti E. Michigan Eagles 8 824
Superior Dome Marquette N. Michigan Wildcats 8 000

[EricH]

[snip]
Name Location Tenants Capacity
Palace of Auburn Hills Auburn Hills Detroit Pistons 22 076
Joe Louis Arena Detroit Detroit Red Wings 20 066

If those two are available, I'll be surprised. NBA and NHL would be barely starting to wrap up their seasons. Though if the home team happens to be away for the weekend, it's quite doable (from the "no two events at the same time" standpoint, not the whole "cost of event" standpoint).

[MrBasse]

If those two are available, I'll be surprised. NBA and NHL would be barely starting to wrap up their seasons. Though if the home team happens to be away for the weekend, it's quite doable (from the "no two events at the same time" standpoint, not the whole "cost of event" standpoint).

If only Cobo Arena was still a thing... It almost has to be college level, NCAA basketball would be done by then as it would be the championships. Could land at Van Andel, but I'm not sure about pit space there. I can't see it being anywhere but EMU. They already know the event, the schedule appears to work there. But I don't know how you could fit any more teams into that building without putting pits in the loading area and by the freight elevator.

[BriteBacon]

Name Location Tenants Capacity
Pontiac Silverdome Pontiac Multi-use 80 311


This means a water game right?

http://m.imgur.com/a/UXbNQ

[MARS_James]

This means a water game right?

http://m.imgur.com/a/UXbNQ

I was gonna say, I thought I read a report about the Silverdome being abandoned seems I was right

[Jon Stratis]

11% of 600 is 66 spots. MSC is 64 spots, no?

Honestly, it's starting to sound like Michigan should split into two separate districts. When you have enough teams in the district that everyone that makes it to the district championship also makes it to states, then the district championshipbecomes meaningless. This is something that FIRST really needs to look at and come up with some rules on... It doesn't make sense to habe an event when everyone who attends progresses to the next state-owned it just turns into a required payment in order to then pay for the next level.

[Michael Corsetto]

California is listed as 298 teams...

I think you're mistaking FIRST's website for actually giving accurate numbers. You're probably seeing some duplicates through FIRST's "What's in My Area?" function, or teams that aren't actually registered for this season. I know CA is stretching to hit the 250 team milestone this year, with a goal of 251.

Source: On Sac RPC, talk to RD's once a month.

Meanwhile, FiM continues to grow at an inspiring rate. When something works, it just works.

-Mike

[GaryVoshol]

You can't go only by seating capacity. Calihan hall was the site of the FLL State tournament long ago, until FLL wouldn't fit there any more.

[Mark McLeod]

I think you're mistaking FIRST's website for actually giving accurate numbers. You're probably seeing some duplicates through FIRST's "What's in My Area?" function, or teams that aren't actually registered for this season. I know CA is stretching to hit the 250 team milestone this year, with a goal of 251.

Source: On Sac RPC, talk to RD's once a month.

Yea, I see only 223 California teams registered and in an event so far.

2728 total teams at the moment.

[Anthony Galea]

My thoughts on MSC would be that instead of dividing into two districts, it would become more like CMP by having divisions, allowing it to expand. This way, more teams would get more matches at the championship. My idea would be to have two 40 team divisions for this year, and run the divisions like a normal 40 team district event.

[nikeairmancurry]

From little information I have heard through the grape vine, MSC will 100+ teams with two fields. How it is to be broken up is anyone's guess. Also newest rumors are that the event will be held somewhere on the west side of the state.

[MrBasse]

From little information I have heard through the grape vine, MSC will 100+ teams with two fields. How it is to be broken up is anyone's guess. Also newest rumors are that the event will be held somewhere on the west side of the state.

West side? Where? I'm not trying to bash where I live, but we just don't have the capacity for that anywhere that I can think of. Everywhere that does doesn't have seating and everywhere that has seating doesn't have the capacity for that many teams plus two fields. I've never been to DeVos though, is there anyone here who has inside knowledge of that building?

[BriteBacon]

From little information I have heard through the grape vine, MSC will 100+ teams with two fields. How it is to be broken up is anyone's guess. Also newest rumors are that the event will be held somewhere on the west side of the state.

If it is on the West side of the state I'd say it would be at Van Andel Arena. Not sure how well it would fit two fields though.

[Tungrus]

Holy Moses!

[P.J.]

From little information I have heard through the grape vine, MSC will 100+ teams with two fields. How it is to be broken up is anyone's guess. Also newest rumors are that the event will be held somewhere on the west side of the state.

Interesting. All of the rumors I've heard hint at Ford Field. But those are only rumors, as I have absolutely no connections with anyone involved with making this decision. I'm interested to see how this shakes out.

[Richard Wallace]

VIMS told me I was volunteering for MSC in Ypsilanti.Methinks FiM knows more than VIMs.;)

[MrBasse]

Methinks FiM knows more than VIMs.;)

However, they also haven't updated the pictures on their website since 2010. There is always the chance that they are a little behind...

[GaryVoshol]

Methinks FiM knows more than VIMs.;)

Maybe - but then don't ask for volunteers in Ypsi if it's not going to be there. If it involves travel and hotels because it's in a different location, shouldn't the volunteers know that?

[Allison K]

Maybe - but then don't ask for volunteers in Ypsi if it's not going to be there. If it involves travel and hotels because it's in a different location, shouldn't the volunteers know that?

The same could be said of teams regarding needing to know if there's travel involved. The FiM page has said for awhile now that the location for states is "To Be Determined." Hopefully it'll be announced soon so volunteers and teams can plan, but if the trade-off for waiting is a bigger event I can't complain :)

Edited to add: It would be nice however if they would make an official announcement about current status of the location. Especially whether they are just considering moving and looking into options, or whether it is definitely moving.

[Mark McLeod]

A few events are adding teams this morning from the waitlists.

[Tungrus]

still wait listed.....zzz...zzz....

[Lil' Lavery]

If those two are available, I'll be surprised. NBA and NHL would be barely starting to wrap up their seasons. Though if the home team happens to be away for the weekend, it's quite doable (from the "no two events at the same time" standpoint, not the whole "cost of event" standpoint).

The Pistons have home games on the 8th, 10th, and 12th so the Palace is out.
However the Red Wings last home game is the 7th, and the playoffs don't start until after MSC would wrap up. The arena's website currently doesn't list any concerts or other events that weekend. So Joe Louis is a possibility, schedule-wise. Whether it would fit more teams than Ypsilanti is a separate question. Most hockey-arena events I've been to fit around 50-60 teams if the pit space is also on the arena floor. However, the Cobo Center is adjacent (attached?) to Joe Louis, so the pit space could potentially be moved there, similar to how it is at Championship.

[Joe G.]

Team 5701 has registered from Japan, and is planning to attend the Hawaii Regional. Is this the first Japanese team?

[Mark McLeod]

If they stick around, then they will be the first competing Japanese team.

[BriteBacon]

So Joe Louis is a possibility, schedule-wise.

It would be cool playing in a venue with as much history as the Joe before it gets demolished. As long as nobody throws an octopus on the field during eliminations!

[orangemoore]

It would be cool playing in a venue with as much history as the Joe before it gets demolished. As long as nobody throws an octopus on the field during eliminations!

I am now planning a trip to throw a plush octopus onto the field

[RonnieS]

The Pistons have home games on the 8th, 10th, and 12th so the Palace is out.
However the Red Wings last home game is the 7th, and the playoffs don't start until after MSC would wrap up. The arena's website currently doesn't list any concerts or other events that weekend. So Joe Louis is a possibility, schedule-wise. Whether it would fit more teams than Ypsilanti is a separate question. Most hockey-arena events I've been to fit around 50-60 teams if the pit space is also on the arena floor. However, the Cobo Center is adjacent (attached?) to Joe Louis, so the pit space could potentially be moved there, similar to how it is at Championship.

I have heard talk of this. It holds 20,000 people and with the cobo center there would be room for pits.
I have also thought there might be enough room at Ford Field. I would think there would be enough room on the floor to do pits and a field. Of course this would all be changed if they wanted to do 2 fields.

[Ed Law]

Michigan now has 344 teams with 78 rookies. This means we need 18 district events for sure. Still has 13 veteran teams from last year not registered (or waitlisted) for events. There may even be rookie teams still not assigned an event yet.

[Michael Hill]

I am now planning a trip to throw a plush octopus onto the field

Plush? Amateur...

[The_ShamWOW88]

Team 5701 has registered from Japan, and is planning to attend the Hawaii Regional. Is this the first Japanese team?

Awesome the international growth this season. Hopefully it continues.

5553 from France I believe is the first French team, unless I'm mistaken.

[Mark McLeod]

Past 2800 teams this morning.
74 teams have been added to event rosters over the past 24 hours.

[Tungrus]

REf FIM: Kentwood district event (new this year) is open of registration now.

[Christopher149]

Michigan now has 344 teams with 78 rookies. This means we need 18 district events for sure. Still has 13 veteran teams from last year not registered (or waitlisted) for events. There may even be rookie teams still not assigned an event yet.

18 events? With Kentwood that makes only 17 as of now.

Escananba has 28 teams right now, and Traverse City has 31. If I counted correctly, there are about 12 teams who have Esky as home event that are probably waitlisted for Traverse (31 + 12 = 43 > 40). I wouldn't mind an 18th event somewhere up north.

Edit: With some newer additions at Esky, that's more like 15 UP teams that are likely waitlisted at Traverse (the 16th is going to West Michigan).

[nikeairmancurry]

18 events? With Kentwood that makes only 17 as of now.

Escananba has 28 teams right now, and Traverse City has 31. If I counted correctly, there are about 12 teams who have Esky as home event that are probably waitlisted for Traverse (31 + 12 = 43 > 40). I wouldn't mind an 18th event somewhere up north.

Edit: With some newer additions at Esky, that's more like 15 UP teams that are likely waitlisted at Traverse (the 16th is going to West Michigan).

344 Teams x 2 Events each = 688 total spots needed (barring any more teams)

688 spots needed. 17 Events x 40 Spots = 680 spots available.

18th Event needed.

[Alan Anderson]

344 Teams x 2 Events each = 688 total spots needed (barring any more teams)

688 spots needed. 17 Events x 40 Spots = 680 spots available.

18th Event needed.

It is not out of the question to have 41 or 42 teams at a District competition, is it?

[BrendanB]

It is not out of the question to have 41 or 42 teams at a District competition, is it?

Its possible but they need an 18th event to facilitate third plays.

[Lil' Lavery]

Its possible but they need an 18th event to facilitate third plays.

There is no requirement for 3rd plays.

[Allison K]

It is not out of the question to have 41 or 42 teams at a District competition, is it?

Michigan is now at 350 teams, so the theoretical 18th event is half full. Also the previously stated demand for 3rd events. (Edited to add: Not that the 3rd play is required or anything, but FiM seems to have a unstated goal of getting as many teams as much play time as possible. This is based upon previous statements from multiple board members, and multiple years of many 3rd play spots).

If they ever ended up really in a jam, or team counts were only over capacity by one or two teams, I could see that being a last resort sort of option.

[BrendanB]

There is no requirement for 3rd plays.

There isn't but considering registration fees for third plays do not go to FIRST but instead stay in the district it is in the district's best interest to have those slots available.

[Taylor]

Third plays do not need to be in the state of Michigan. With the new inter-district play option, there are many opportunities for MI teams to play more than twice without the $4k registration fee.

[Mr V]

Third plays do not need to be in the state of Michigan. With the new inter-district play option, there are many opportunities for MI teams to play more than twice without the $4k registration fee.

Yeah but from my understanding the 3rd play fee goes to the district where the play occurs. 3rd play fees are counted on in a district's annual budget. While small overall every bit helps and is needed to make this work.

From the team standpoint the cost of a 3rd play in another district ramps up travel costs significantly in many cases, so most would probably rather play in their home district from that stand point.

[Alan Anderson]

...considering registration fees for third plays do not go to FIRST but instead stay in the district it is in the district's best interest to have those slots available.

I'm having difficulty making the math work out in favor of adding a district event. 40 district teams paying third-event fees, set against the cost of putting on a competition, seems unlikely to be a money-positive proposition to me. But if the organizers can make it happen, the benefits to the teams in the region are good.

[BrendanB]

I'm having difficulty making the math work out in favor of adding a district event. 40 district teams paying third-event fees, set against the cost of putting on a competition, seems unlikely to be a money-positive proposition to me. But if the organizers can make it happen, the benefits to the teams in the region are good.

The money a team pays towards its first two district events do not go to the district to fund that event. Those go to FIRST which does not give a district event money to run your event (in our case the Reading and UNH district events). The money to run those events the district has to raise.

This is what I have been told if this is not the case someone can set me straight. :)

Also in the wake of adding a new event some teams may drop their first or second events to they can attend the new event if it is closer so it would become a "primary" event for a good number of teams.

[Andrew Schreiber]

The money a team pays towards its first two district events do not go to the district to fund that event. Those go to FIRST which does not give the specific event money to run your event (in our case the Reading and UNH district events). The money to run those events the district has to raise.

This is what I have been told if this is not the case someone can set me straight. :)

Alan is saying

40 X Registration Fee < Cost of District

You are correct that the money goes to the District System. But Alan is saying that's not economically viable as the sole reason to do another district.

[TikiTech]

Howzit!

Team 3880 – The Tiki Techs - Have received their final conformations and will be competing at the Australia, Hawaii and Silicon Valley regionals!

Looking forward to an exciting season.

Aloha!

[Allison K]

I'm having difficulty making the math work out in favor of adding a district event. 40 district teams paying third-event fees, set against the cost of putting on a competition, seems unlikely to be a money-positive proposition to me. But if the organizers can make it happen, the benefits to the teams in the region are good.

This is super fuzzy information, nobody quote me on this, but I recall districts being in the 7K-14K range. This post here from 2009 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=854136&postcount=31) used to link to a presentation that showed the breakdown of how much was spent on each event. Does anybody have that document, or a more recent equivalent?

That said, there's a lot more to running an event that just the dollar cost, there's also drain on volunteers and limits on time and field availability to consider. The actual "cost" of an event is much higher than the dollar amount spent, and thus even if there is a slight financial gain from 3rd plays the biggest value is probably in team experience/satisfaction gained from more time on the field.

Edited to add: Okay I was wrong, average cost for a district (in 2009 anyway) was 24K. That's what I get for trying to remember things from 5 years ago. In my defense, the event I was involved in came in at around 10K :) Thanks Christopher149 for finding that. I wonder if there is more recent data in a similar vein?

[Christopher149]

This is super fuzzy information, nobody quote me on this, but I recall districts being in the 7K-14K range. This post here from 2009 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=854136&postcount=31) used to link...

Here ya go (https://web.archive.org/web/20090430093408/http://www.firstinmichigan.org/filemgmt_data/files/1%20presentation%20FINAL.pdf). It says "Total expenses for the 7 events: $170,000".

I'm amused to see our robot in the Traverse picture.

[MrBasse]

When we were in the running for another West Michigan event last year, I was quoted absolute minimum of $14-18k from FiM. I don't think that FiM would care much about the cost of a district event as it is the event organizers that have to raise funds for the event. The 3rd event registration money would go straight to FiM. The money for running the event would be raised through local sponsorship and donations.

[dag0620]

This is super fuzzy information, nobody quote me on this, but I recall districts being in the 7K-14K range. This post here from 2009 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=854136&postcount=31) used to link to a presentation that showed the breakdown of how much was spent on each event. Does anybody have that document, or a more recent equivalent?

Edited to add: Okay I was wrong, average cost for a district (in 2009 anyway) was 24K. That's what I get for trying to remember things from 5 years ago. In my defense, the event I was involved in came in at around 10K :) Thanks Christopher149 for finding that. I wonder if there is more recent data in a similar vein?

They also vary region to region and by the standards set by the district leadership. i.e. NE District events tend to come in between $30-40k, while what you typically hear from MI, their events come in under $30k if not less.

[Mr V]

I'm having difficulty making the math work out in favor of adding a district event. 40 district teams paying third-event fees, set against the cost of putting on a competition, seems unlikely to be a money-positive proposition to me. But if the organizers can make it happen, the benefits to the teams in the region are good.

It depends on both the cost of that particular event, which does vary and how much the district charges for additional plays. Based on the average PNW district event costs and our additional play fee ($1000) adding another district event, assuming you get enough teams to actually have an event, would result in a net "profit".

The money a team pays towards its first two district events do not go to the district to fund that event. Those go to FIRST which does not give a district event money to run your event (in our case the Reading and UNH district events). The money to run those events the district has to raise.

This is what I have been told if this is not the case someone can set me straight. :)

Also in the wake of adding a new event some teams may drop their first or second events to they can attend the new event if it is closer so it would become a "primary" event for a good number of teams.

For each team in a District the district gets to keep $1000. And yes adding an event could certainly cause some teams that are already registered for 2 events dropping one of those and adding the new event.

[Mr V]

When we were in the running for another West Michigan event last year, I was quoted absolute minimum of $14-18k from FiM. I don't think that FiM would care much about the cost of a district event as it is the event organizers that have to raise funds for the event. The 3rd event registration money would go straight to FiM. The money for running the event would be raised through local sponsorship and donations.

It is the district that has ultimate fiscal responsibility for all the events in their district. I'm not sure how FiM does it but in the PNW we don't raise money for a specific event we raise money for all district events and the costs for all district events come out of the same account. Now we do have a title sponsor for our DCMP for which they receive naming rights and all of their funds are applied to the DCMP. Of course FiM has their own procedures for handling their finances.

[Jim Zondag]

Average District Event cost for FIRSTinMichigan was $18,000 for 2014. We ran 15 district events last season.

[Richard Wallace]

Average District Event cost for FIRSTinMichigan was $18,000 for 2014. We ran 15 district events last season.
I was not the first one to reach for the spotlight button, and probably not the last.

To put this in the volunteer's perspective: FiM ran 1200 qualifying matches and fifteen elimination brackets, for the same budget some regionals have burned through to run 96 qualifying matches and one bracket. This is possible because FiM musters and manages an insanely dedicated corps of volunteers. We really, really like to play robots. :]

[Mark McLeod]

New chart fun.
Team count (vet/rookie/total) by country/state/province
2823 teams right now.

[Christopher149]

New chart fun.
Team count (vet/rookie/total) by country/state/province
2823 teams right now.

Wow Michigan, wow. And in case anyone didn't notice, FIM has penciled in an 18th event (http://firstinmichigan.org/FRC_2015/frc_2015_season.html) for week 1, location TBD.

[Richard Wallace]

Wow Michigan, wow. And in case anyone didn't notice, FIM has penciled in an 18th event (http://firstinmichigan.org/FRC_2015/frc_2015_season.html) for week 1, location TBD.
Just to observe the obvious:

1) 18 district competitions will support 360 teams, if no team takes a third play in-state before MSC.

2) 18 events means three per week for six weeks.

The first of these obvious observations points back to one of the main reasons FiM was formed -- to ensure enough playing slots for all Michigan teams. The second obvious observation makes us think about how to ensure this when the number of Michigan teams exceeds 360, which seems likely very soon. Extend the season, or run more than three events per week?

[nikeairmancurry]

Just to observe the obvious:

1) 18 district competitions will support 360 teams, if no team takes a third play in-state before MSC.

2) 18 events means three per week for six weeks.

The first of these obvious observations points back to one of the main reasons FiM was formed -- to ensure enough playing slots for all Michigan teams. The second obvious observation makes us think about how to ensure this when the number of Michigan teams exceeds 360, which seems likely very soon. Extend the season, or run more than three events per week?

When talking to other robots people, we talked about an extended season. The problem is, which way do you go? Push the season out or have kickoff earlier. Each has there pros and cons. Mainly the holiday season.

[Lil' Lavery]

Just to observe the obvious:

1) 18 district competitions will support 360 teams, if no team takes a third play in-state before MSC.

2) 18 events means three per week for six weeks.

The first of these obvious observations points back to one of the main reasons FiM was formed -- to ensure enough playing slots for all Michigan teams. The second obvious observation makes us think about how to ensure this when the number of Michigan teams exceeds 360, which seems likely very soon. Extend the season, or run more than three events per week?

There's a third alternative. Expand the size of max capacity of district events.

How many "key volunteers" (FTA/FTAA, MC/GA, FS, etc) does Michigan have? How many weeks per season do these folks have to volunteer to make the current schedule work? How many fields does FiM own?

[nikeairmancurry]

There's a third alternative. Expand the size of max capacity of district events.

How many "key volunteers" (FTA/FTAA, MC/GA, FS, etc) does Michigan have? How many weeks per season do these folks have to volunteer to make the current schedule work? How many fields does FiM own?

I can tell you that FiM is continuing to train volunteers, to expand our "key volunteer" pool. We have a really strong group of volunteers already, and it grows with each season.

[Rick]

When talking to other robots people, we talked about an extended season. The problem is, which way do you go? Push the season out or have kickoff earlier. Each has there pros and cons. Mainly the holiday season.

Kickoff in early October.
Robots built by Thanksgiving.
Districts/Regionals January through early March.
WCMP in late March/Early April.

[MARS_James]

Kickoff in early October.
Robots built by Thanksgiving.
Districts/Regionals January through early March.
WCMP in late March/Early April.

At what point do you want us to train new members on everthing they need to know? This only gives us the month of September which is not enough time. The ability to secure venues (at least in Florida) in January-March is a nightmare and we would have to pay a very high amount to said venues when we do.

We can not move the 6 build season to before January it won't work, we can't extend the competition season unless you want to either allow for your first official event to start 2 days after stop build or end 4 days before Champs.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Kickoff in early October.
Robots built by Thanksgiving.
Districts/Regionals January through early March.
WCMP in late March/Early April.

It was like the sound of thousands of hours of sleep crying out and suddenly being silenced.

[wilsonmw04]

Kickoff in early October.
Robots built by Thanksgiving.
Districts/Regionals January through early March.
WCMP in late March/Early April.

Then you run into FTC and FLL season. Won't work.

[MrForbes]

...and teams playing with their practice robots all through holiday break.

[BrendanB]

There's a third alternative. Expand the size of max capacity of district events.


That's possible but could eliminate current venues as 40 teams is the max some venues can facilitate between the pit space and space in the stands. If FIM districts increased capacity by five slots and assuming it has 18 districts with three per weekend it would allow for 45 new teams and 90 new spots.

With how fast Michigan has been growing that solution most likely won't get them through 2016. I'm sure FIM is looking at viable options they can implement.

[Kevin Pardus]

Wow Michigan, wow. And in case anyone didn't notice, FIM has penciled in an 18th event (http://firstinmichigan.org/FRC_2015/frc_2015_season.html) for week 1, location TBD.

PNW added their 10th District Event: Shorewood 20-22 Mar / week 4

[dag0620]

There's a third alternative. Expand the size of max capacity of district events.


Just to play devil's advocate, the other issue that this could bring up is the length of the event. As it is, it's incredible that we fit in 12 matches a team for 40 teams in the time we do. If the 12 match guarantee was to continue, the more teams an event has, the longer the event will end up running.

[MechEng83]

Just to play devil's advocate, the other issue that this could bring up is the length of the event. As it is, it's incredible that we fit in 12 matches a team for 40 teams in the time we do. If the 12 match guarantee was to continue, the more teams an event has, the longer the event will end up running.

Every team adds 2 matches to the event if each team has 12 matches (6 spots per match x 2). Crossroads Regional had 45 teams last year and ran 90 matches, or 12 per team. It's definitely doable.

[Lil' Lavery]

Every team adds 2 matches to the event if each team has 12 matches (6 spots per match x 2). Crossroads Regional had 45 teams last year and ran 90 matches, or 12 per team. It's definitely doable.

Keep in mind the 2-day vs 3-day scheduling differences. A 2-day events, you lose a morning of qualification match time to practice matches.

[RockerRobot]

Team 3021 The Agency has a locked in spot at San Jose, but we were wondering if anyone is willing to trade for a San Diego, Ventura, or Rancho Mirage spot, it would save us a lot of money and time if we could stay local. PM me if your team is interested in a trade.

[Mark McLeod]

Team 3021 The Agency has a locked in spot at San Jose, but we were wondering if anyone is willing to trade for a San Diego, Ventura, or Rancho Mirage spot, it would save us a lot of money and time if we could stay local. PM me if your team is interested in a trade.
I don't think starting a black market in trading event slots is going to work out.
They aren't swappable.

If you drop an event it's the RD who chooses the next team from the waitlist as a replacement.
I suggest that you talk your idea over with them before you do anything rash, like drop an event you won't be able to get back in to.

[The_ShamWOW88]

Keep in mind the 2-day vs 3-day scheduling differences. A 2-day events, you lose a morning of qualification match time to practice matches.

What they could do is run practice matches later on load-in night and start Quals morning of Day 1...

Just a thought...

Team 3021 The Agency has a locked in spot at San Jose, but we were wondering if anyone is willing to trade for a San Diego, Ventura, or Rancho Mirage spot, it would save us a lot of money and time if we could stay local. PM me if your team is interested in a trade.

Yeah I would reach out to your RD and explain the situation, they might be able to talk with another competition director and work out something. But like Mark said, don't just drop out of your current regional in hopes to get into another "Full" one.

[MechEng83]

Keep in mind the 2-day vs 3-day scheduling differences. A 2-day events, you lose a morning of qualification match time to practice matches.

What they could do is run practice matches later on load-in night and start Quals morning of Day 1...

Just a thought...

Not having done a district event before this upcoming season, I thought that's how it ran, with practice matches on load-in/inspection night.

[BrendanB]

Not having done a district event before this upcoming season, I thought that's how it ran, with practice matches on load-in/inspection night.

They try to do practice on load in night but it depends if the field is setup. I know there were no practice matches at the Granite State and UNH districts but we had some at Northeastern near the end of the night. I heard other events had load in night practice but not sure which ones. Depending on when an event can get access to facilities, which for districts can be late in the afternoon on load in day, it can be close to impossible to get the field ready to run for load in practice.

The focus of load in night needs to be on the inspections. For early events where teams are going through the process for the first time of the year you'll be lucky if you get half of the teams inspected by the end of the night. At GSD and UNH a majority of the teams were inspected the following morning. Add in practice matches and the backlog of teams will increase.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Not having done a district event before this upcoming season, I thought that's how it ran, with practice matches on load-in/inspection night.

No, in fact, many venues are just setting the field up on practice night or are installing and testing electronics.

[sanddrag]

What they could do is run practice matches later on load-in night and start Quals morning of Day 1...
Good discussion on practice match hours here (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130241&page=2). Submitted for Frank Answers Fridays but never answered.

[Lil' Lavery]

Not having done a district event before this upcoming season, I thought that's how it ran, with practice matches on load-in/inspection night.

MAR events do allow for some practice matches on the evening of day 0. But those are usually open (no practice schedule) and more focused on getting teams connected to the field for the first time. The teams who pass inspection early can take advantage of this time better than those who don't. Teams are usually encouraged to bring a much smaller crew on day 0, as well. The scheduled practice matches run the morning of day 1.

YMMV by district.

[Deke]

From little information I have heard through the grape vine, MSC will 100+ teams with two fields. How it is to be broken up is anyone's guess. Also newest rumors are that the event will be held somewhere on the west side of the state.

I have heard +100 teams with two fields as well, in Grand Rapids.

My guess is that it would be 128 teams (2x last year), then they can use the same system 2x. Not sure how the elimination rounds would work, maybe a two team Einstein type of championship style, the winners of both fields play.

[JesseK]

FYI, DC & Pittsburgh got updated sometime over the weekend with teams several teams officially off of the waitlist. I suspect other events have been updated as well.

[Karthik]

FYI, DC & Pittsburgh got updated sometime over the weekend with teams several teams officially off of the waitlist. I suspect other events have been updated as well.

Hawaii and Las Vegas are now both showing open capacity of 5 and 4 respectively.

[waialua359]

Hawaii and Las Vegas are now both showing open capacity of 5 and 4 respectively.

Yes, Hawaii has increased capacity.
They have been trying to do so for many years, and after tons of emails from our RD to raise it, they have finally listened.
In the past, we kept having to have teams register on the waitlist and have FIRST switch them over to registered. Our event was capable of having 40+ teams but never could understand why FIRST put a limit of 27 up until now.:confused:

-Glenn

[ebarker]

New chart fun.
Team count (vet/rookie/total) by country/state/province
2823 teams right now.

can you provide a table or spreadsheet with those numbers please? and thanks

[Mark McLeod]

can you provide a table or spreadsheet with those numbers please? and thanks

Here's the spreadsheet for that day's tally.

[ebarker]

That was a useful spreadsheet also

but before I go do some excel work, do you have the table that made the graph,

basically

state, count

example

AK, 1
AL, 8
AR, 16

etc

I want to update a spreadsheet I did about 5 years ago and look at the deltas.

Thanks

Ed

[Mark McLeod]

but before I go do some excel work, do you have the table that made the graph,

See Sheet 3
I neglected to name it anything meaningful.

[ebarker]

I thought to check the tabs but got distracted and forgot. I downloaded the file and when I open the file it gives an error saying the file may have missing data. at first glance it seems to all be there,,,, I don't know if the file upstairs is broken or what.

Ed

[Mark McLeod]

Here are just the totals for the chart in CSV comma delimited form.
I had to give it an extension of .txt to upload it here.

Also an .xlsx format for the whole thing to try.

[ebarker]

normalizing the data against state population, teams per million population

[billylo]

Ed... this is eye-opening. Amazing numbers from Minnesota! Anyone from MN can share their perspectives on how they have managed to get FIRST into so many schools and communities?

[ebarker]

It looks like the 5 years gains, just some sample data points

2009 2014
Michigan 132 350 teams
Minnesota 81 179
California 145 234
Georgia 28 61
New York 122 139
Texas 91 109

I remember in 2009 Michigan was almost desperate to get economic development done, and there was an aggressive push on all fronts..

I'm interested in seeing how this works out in a few years with economic development in that state.

It would be nice to start building charts for each state with plot lines for the following
____teams / million population
____STEM undergraduate degree production
____gross state economic output

There should be some interesting time delays between team startup and degree production. There should be some interesting way to normalize the economic data to make some sense.

I'm working on building models for correlating FIRST with degree production and economic output. This data is key for creating policy support for FIRST.

I need to go dig deeply in Michigan data on STEM degree production rates and technologist production rates. That could be golden information.


Ed

[ehochstein]

Ed... this is eye-opening. Amazing numbers from Minnesota! Anyone from MN can share their perspectives on how they have managed to get FIRST into so many schools and communities?

Check out this thread http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130789&page=2

There is a little bit of discussion there about how MN got to where it is. Let me know if you have any additional questions.

Also to note: we have 600+ FLL teams and 107 FTC teams.

[Mark McLeod]

Here's the rate at which teams have been added to event lists (so far).

The big peaks are on mass opening, 2nd District opening, and 2nd Regional opening.

[ebarker]

Mark,

Can you provide a table of how many teams are competing in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc events ?

It is what I'd call the breadth versus depth analysis.
hmmm, comparing districts and old fashioned regionals' is a little different in that regard.

Ed

[Mark McLeod]

You mean like this?

Event Week --- All -- District -- Regional
week 1 ------- 610 --- 265 ------ 345
week 2 ------- 464 --- 241 ------ 223
week 3 ------- 727 --- 252 ------ 475
week 4 ------- 768 --- 286 ------ 482
week 5 ------- 826 --- 294 ------ 532
week 6 ------- 666 --- 101 ------ 565
week 7 ---------- 0 ------ 0 ---------- 0
week 9 --------- 28 ----- 0 ---------- 0

[Wetzel]

You mean like this?

Event Week --- All -- District -- Regional
week 1 ------- 610 --- 265 ------ 345
week 2 ------- 464 --- 241 ------ 223
week 3 ------- 727 --- 252 ------ 475
week 4 ------- 768 --- 286 ------ 482
week 5 ------- 826 --- 294 ------ 532
week 6 ------- 666 --- 101 ------ 565
week 7 ---------- 0 ------ 0 ---------- 0
week 9 --------- 28 ----- 0 ---------- 0

Pretty sure he was looking for counts of teams participating in multiple events, not how many per week.

[Mark McLeod]

Oh, I see now.
I have that on a computer at home.
I'll post it when I get back around dinner time (ET).

[Mark McLeod]

No District Championship or World CMP included:

(3) 4 events
(52) 3 events
(1094) 2 events
(1705) 1 event

[Wetzel]

No District Championship or World CMP included:

(3) 4 events
(52) 3 events
(1094) 2 events
(1705) 1 event

Are you able to pull out regional only teams? My school district is interested in knowing how many other teams do 2 regional events.

[Mark McLeod]

Total teams = 2854
Regional teams = 2014 (71%)
District teams = 840 (29%)


Regional teams only, no District teams:
(37) 3 events
(513) 2 Events
(1464) 1 eventDistrict Teams Only:
(3) 4 events
(15) 3 events
(581) 2 events
(241) 1 event (I assume mostly waitlisted)Districts sending teams out to play at Regionals:
(1) Indiana
(1) New England
(8) MAR
(11) Michigan

[ebarker]

that too is interesting data, but what I meant but didn't explain well is this,

all teams participate in 1 event
many teams are in 2 events
a bundle are in 3 events
only a few are in 4 events.


so how many is "all", "many", "a bundle" and "only a few"..........

in other words what is the 'play' distribution'

if you are in the district system, you get more 'play'

[dodar]

that too is interesting data, but what I meant but didn't explain well is this,

all teams participate in 1 event
many teams are in 2 events
a bundle are in 3 events
only a few are in 4 events.


so how many is "all", "many", "a bundle" and "only a few"..........

in other words what is the 'play' distribution'

if you are in the district system, you get more 'play'

Well if you add up all his data:

All(1705)
Many(1094)
A Bundle(52)
A Few(3)

[Mark McLeod]

Well if you add up all his data:

All(1705)
Many(1094)
A Bundle(52)
A Few(3)

Or possibly he means:

All = 2854
Many (All-1705) = 1149
Bundle (Many-1094) = 55
Few (Bundle-52) = 3

[Hallry]

Mark,

Do you have the current numbers of how many teams are in each of the district systems? It's interesting to me that MAR seems to have a much higher percentage of teams registered for outside regionals than the other four district systems (possibly even combined?).

(P.S. Thanks for providing all this data every year! :D)

EDIT:
After doing some quick calculations, it appears that 11 out of the 120 MAR teams are currently traveling to outside regionals in 2015, which is 9.17% of all MAR teams. Meanwhile, 8 of the 350(?) FiM teams are registered for outside regionals, or 2.29% of all FiM. Which that data, and the fact that there are only 1 NE FIRST team, 1 Indiana Team, and 0 PNW teams also attending outside regionals, it would appear that MAR has not only a greater percentage of teams competing at outside regionals than any other district system, but also a larger percentage than all of the other district systems combined.

EDIT 2:
Mark corrected me below, I switched up the amount of MAR and FiM teams traveling out-of-district for 2015. But the fact still stands, there are more MAR teams competing at outside regionals in 2015 than from all of the other district systems combined.

[ebarker]

Or possibly he means:

All = 2854
Many (All-1705) = 1149
Bundle (Many-1094) = 55
Few (Bundle-52) = 3

Interesting,,,,, thanks for the data

[Mark McLeod]

EDIT:
After doing some quick calculations, it appears that 11 out of the 120 MAR teams are currently traveling to outside regionals in 2015.
You transposed some numbers, but you're still right.

District - # teams - # outside events - % playing outside
FIM ------- 351 ------------- 11 --------------- 3.13%
MAR ------ 120 -------------- 8 ---------------- 6.67%
NE -------- 167 -------------- 1 ---------------- 0.60%
PNW ------ 149 -------------- 0 ---------------- 0.00%
IN ---------- 53 -------------- 1 ---------------- 1.89%


MAR - 6.67% vs everyone else - 5.62%

[EricH]

It's interesting to me that MAR seems to have a much higher percentage of teams registered for outside regionals than the other four district systems (possibly even combined?).

I would hazard a guess that it's due to the proximity of outside regionals to MAR and MAR teams vs. everywhere else.

PNW: Nearest regional event for PNW teams would be Utah, SVR, or Sacramento, all a full day's driving for the nearest PNW teams.
MI: Sure, you've got MN (Duluth x 2), Toronto (x 2), North Bay, Milwaukee, Midwest, and Queen City within a "reasonable" drive, depending where you are in the state. But those are all a bit of a drive, particularly westbound (MN, WI, Midwest), or across the border (the three Canadian events). Indiana has district events, if you can get in.
NE: You've got NYC, Long Island, and Tech Valley as possibilities, maybe Finger Lakes if you want to push it a bit. All are rather crowded events. Montreal is cross-border; anything beyond NY is getting into MAR territory and thus dependent on the goodwill of the good folks in MAR and their open spots.
IN: Could probably make Midwest or Queen City in about a day, not so sure about anything beyond that.
MAR: You only have NYC, Long Island, Tech Valley (north part of the area), Pittsburgh, DC, Virginia, and Chesapeake within a nice easy drive.

tl;dr: MAR just has more regionals handy. MI has IN districts (and vice versa) or crossing the border; NE has to contend with NY teams at their nearest events; PNW doesn't have much of anything anywhere near their boundaries.



Hey, Mark: Is anybody taking the plunge for the title of "First Cross-District Play" yet?

[AGPapa]

I would hazard a guess that it's due to the proximity of outside regionals to MAR and MAR teams vs. everywhere else.

MAR: You only have NYC, Long Island, Tech Valley (north part of the area), Pittsburgh, DC, Virginia, and Chesapeake within a nice easy drive.



There are literally zero MAR teams at any of those events.

4 MAR teams are in South Florida
1 is in Orlando
1 is in Las Vegas
1 is in Montreal
And 1 is in Waterloo

All of these teams are traveling very far. Two are even leaving the country (and they are the closest ones!)

[Hallry]

I would hazard a guess that it's due to the proximity of outside regionals to MAR and MAR teams vs. everywhere else.

MAR: You only have NYC, Long Island, Tech Valley (north part of the area), Pittsburgh, DC, Virginia, and Chesapeake within a nice easy drive.

tl;dr: MAR just has more regionals handy.

(Antonio stole my point in the previous post). Most would make the same assumption you did Eric, but after looking at the data, you see that the case is not so. Yes, there might be a larger number of regionals around MAR, but all of the MAR teams currently registered for outside regionals are traveling to much further competitions than the ones that you mentioned. The closest regional that a MAR team is going to is Canada (2 teams), followed by Nevada (1 team) and then Florida (5 teams). None of those are 'handy'.

[Gregor]

MI: Sure, you've got MN (Duluth x 2), Toronto (x 2), North Bay, Milwaukee, Midwest, and Queen City within a "reasonable" drive, depending where you are in the state. But those are all a bit of a drive, particularly westbound (MN, WI, Midwest), or across the border (the three Canadian events). Indiana has district events, if you can get in.

You missed Windsor, which has more teams from Michigan within an hour drive than from Ontario.

[Mark McLeod]

Hey, Mark: Is anybody taking the plunge for the title of "First Cross-District Play" yet?
That can't happen before Dec 11 at the earliest.

[MechEng83]

IN: Could probably make Midwest or Queen City in about a day, not so sure about anything beyond that.


Both Queen City and Midwest are week 6 events, which is the same week as the IN State Championship. 234 is going to Buckeye, which is a week 5 event (no Indiana events that week)
Central Illinois is the only other "close" regional, and that's week 4, during our Purdue district event.

[Mark McLeod]

Inland Empire just admitted a slew (12) of teams today.
Scattered additions (and some subtractions) elsewhere brought the total of teams on event lists up by 30.

[sanddrag]

San Diego added 3.

[Allison K]

Michigan now has details on the 18th district event. Week 1 in Standish. Been stable at 351 teams for a few weeks, so it seems as if FiM is done with adding events for the 2015 season now.

[JB987]

LVR opened up 6 more spots this morning...first come first serve!

[JohnSchneider]

Does anyone with inside information know when Arizona is going to pull teams from wait? For AZ West, they show 29 registered teams with 0 open.... but I can't believe that that's the final count.

[Nathan Rossi]

Does anyone with inside information know when Arizona is going to pull teams from wait? For AZ West, they show 29 registered teams with 0 open.... but I can't believe that that's the final count.

1492 just got off the wait-list for Arizona West today (or yesterday, I didn't check). Like you said, 29 teams is unlikely to be the final team count. I imagine more teams will get off the wait-list at some point. But, I don't know that for a fact, contact the RD if you want an official response.

[Mark McLeod]

2876 teams currently
6.2% growth (1.1% less than last year) = 168 additional teams
93% retention (1.5% higher than last year) = 2490 returning teams, 218 teams from last year who haven't reregistered
12.5% new teams (2.2% fewer new teams than last year) = 360 new teams
10.4% resurrected vets (6.4% fewer than last year) = 26 vets who didn't play last year

[PayneTrain]

Mark, have you put together any kind of graph that shows growth and retention rates over the last 5-10 years? Wonder if we'll look back on registration this year as an anomaly or as part of a plateau of overall growth and increased retention (ie the "market" of FRC team development has matured under the traditional regional model). Conversely, does the 2014 season look like an anomaly over the last half-decade?

[Mark McLeod]

Here are the team growth and year-to-year retention (corrected for resurrected vets) charts from the beginning.
Retention is the highest that it has ever been.
Really, it's just the new team growth that's down this year. Hard to tell if that's the fault of marketing, outreach or something else.
I wouldn't describe it as a "plateau."

[gsesny]

Question that is a little off topic the current subject about growth. How can F.I.R.S.T. close registration when they have not cleaned up their wait list? We have been on the wait list since the first day of registering for a second event. We have not heard from first about the wait list, where we stand or even if we have a chance to get in. We would like to go to a second event. It will really hurt our young program not to. We could register at a 3rd event that has a shorter wait list but will that hurt our chances at our first choice wait list? After they clean up the wait list can you still call and get registered at an event that is not full?

On a side not I have talked to a few teams in our area and it seems that many of them are having a harder time registering for a second event. Is anyone else seeing this?

Any advice on this?

[Whippet]

Question that is a little off topic the current subject about growth. How can F.I.R.S.T. close registration when they have not cleaned up their wait list? We have been on the wait list since the first day of registering for a second event. We have not heard from first about the wait list, where we stand or even if we have a chance to get in. We would like to go to a second event. It will really hurt our young program not to. We could register at a 3rd event that has a shorter wait list but will that hurt our chances at our first choice wait list? After they clean up the wait list can you still call and get registered at an event that is not full?

On a side not I have talked to a few teams in our area and it seems that many of them are having a harder time registering for a second event. Is anyone else seeing this?

Any advice on this?

[Shameless plug] The Hub City regional still has plenty of spots open that you could guarantee your team! [/Shameless Plug]

[Alan Anderson]

We have not heard from first about the wait list, where we stand or even if we have a chance to get in...

FIRST HQ does not maintain the wait lists. If you want to ask about your chances to move to the "registered" list, contact the people in charge of the event. The Regional Director is a good starting point.

[gsesny]

Alan,

Thanks for the reply. That has been done. I got a pretty stock reply that there is a long wait list and there would be plenty of unhappy teams. There were no details given about numbers, when they would know etc.

[Bryan Herbst]

Question that is a little off topic the current subject about growth. How can F.I.R.S.T. close registration when they have not cleaned up their wait list? We have been on the wait list since the first day of registering for a second event. We have not heard from first about the wait list, where we stand or even if we have a chance to get in. We would like to go to a second event. It will really hurt our young program not to. We could register at a 3rd event that has a shorter wait list but will that hurt our chances at our first choice wait list? After they clean up the wait list can you still call and get registered at an event that is not full?

On a side not I have talked to a few teams in our area and it seems that many of them are having a harder time registering for a second event. Is anyone else seeing this?

Any advice on this?

Registering for a third event will generally not impact your chances of getting off the waitlist for your second event.

Some of the factors that do typically weigh in to whether you get off the waitlist or not include team age, location, and how many events you are registered (not waitlisted) for.

If you happen to get into the "third" event before the "second" one re-evaluates your position on the waitlist, then you will likely be given lower priority for the "second" one.

[Mark McLeod]

Just an opinion, but that reply sounds like you won't get in to that event.

Rather than just randomly signing up for a third event, I would start directly contacting the RD's of several other events that you might be interested in and asking them about the chances of switching to their event.
Scattered teams have dropped out of events as they don't get funding or for whatever reason, so some events that appear full may actually have open space no one knows about.

[Alan Anderson]

I got a pretty stock reply that there is a long wait list and there would be plenty of unhappy teams. There were no details given about numbers, when they would know etc.

That might be a "stock reply" for that particular event, but it sounds like useful information for teams on that wait list. Did you ask about numbers and timing? More specific questions might elicit more specific answers.

I doubt that the two events' planning committees are sharing information on who's on the wait lists, and I very much doubt that they would give lower priority to a team trying to sign up elsewhere. If you can sign up for another event without withdrawing from this one, I'd suggest you do so. It could be seen as abusing the system, but in the unlikely case that you end up getting registered for both, there's no penalty for withdrawing from a competition before you have paid.

[Wetzel]

Ft Lauderdale, Bayou, Hub City are regionals that you are likely to get off the wait list at (or at least were earlier this week). Many are stacked super deep, with 10+ teams waiting for a handful of slots. I don't know why this information isn't better disseminated.

[Kevin Pardus]

Just a quick note -- the FIRST FRC Events list is now up to a total of 110 events will the official addition of the 18th FiM District event during Week One.

[Basel A]

Just a quick note -- the FIRST FRC Events list is now up to a total of 110 events will the official addition of the 18th FiM District event during Week One.

Just for everyone's information, Gail's email to teams about the 18th district called it Standish-Sterling.

[Mark McLeod]

2900 teams are now registered.

[Mr. Mike]

2900 teams are now registered.

What is the chance we will break 3k?

[Richard Wallace]

What is the chance we will break 3k?
100%.

Oh, did you mean this year? :)

[Whippet]

What is the chance we will break 3k?

I highly doubt that we'll get another 100 teams registered in less than a day, but it's possible.

[Mark McLeod]

What is the chance we will break 3k?
I'd guess the chances are slim to none.
I'd expect some further rise for the next two weeks as HQ works with teams, but then actually a fall back as some teams finally drop out after failing to raise the necessary funds or otherwise pull it all together.

Last year after this point in time we gained an additional 44 teams then lost 88 teams as they dropped out. That also had a later (~2 weeks) registration close.

The year before shows an ultimate net gain of 32 teams after this date. Also with a longer registration period.
Most earlier years showed a modest net gain (<100) after this point.

[Mark McLeod]

So, at Regional Registration Close at noon we had:
2905 teams
4225 total event slots assigned:
534 - MI
244 - MAR
299 - PNW
330 - NE
102 - IN
2716 - Regionals

[Pjohn1959]

So based on those numbers, and my bad math, it looks like between $16 and $20 million for regsitraton fees. Wow!

[Steven Donow]

Do you have the #'s for 2nd/3rd districts on a region-by-region basis?

[Tungrus]

FIM: Any news on wait listed teams?

[MrBasse]

FIM: Any news on wait listed teams?

I haven't heard anything about waitlists, but I was unable to find the grant recipients (http://www.techplan.org/downloads/pdfs/2014-15_first_grant_recipients_20141124_112133_1.pdf) until this morning. Our financial director changed jobs just after our application went in, so it is nice to know for sure that we got it.

[Mark McLeod]

The FIRST team database appears to have changed how access is done. Maybe as a step in the open API effort. It happened between 6 & 7pm yesterday.
Sessions no longer time out.
Oddly enough some counts are now accurate to six decimal places, so we should expect fractional teams in the future, e.g.,
Open Capacity 0.000000
Teams in All Areas (2924 found, 1 - 250.000000 displayed)This also seems to have broken third party tools like Pat Fairbanks' frclinks (http://frclinks.frclinks.com/) and compwiztobe's event team totals (http://173.255.246.196/).
At least until they adapt.

P.S.
All better now. Thanks guys!

[Allison K]

Looks like we have a location for the Michigan State Championship...

DeltaPlex Arena
2500 Turner Ave NW
Grand Rapids, MI 48544
USA

It appears to be a sizable place (http://deltaplex.com/).

Any guesses for final capacity?

[Tristan Lall]

Looks like we have a location for the Michigan State Championship...

DeltaPlex Arena
2500 Turner Ave NW
Grand Rapids, MI 48544
USA

It appears to be a sizable place (http://deltaplex.com/).

Any guesses for final capacity?
http://deltaplex.stage.rockhousepartners.net/files/2012/08/DP-Event-Planning-Guide-1.pdf
https://www.flickr.com/photos/norkusa/15365102932/

About 4 500 fixed seats. Two fields are a definite possibility, if the convention halls are available for pits.

http://www.arenaracinggr.com/about/index.html#track
http://www.arenaracinggr.com/about/techspecs.pdf

Also, here are some dimensions in the "arena racing" configuration of the main hall.

[The_ShamWOW88]

Looks like we have a location for the Michigan State Championship...

DeltaPlex Arena
2500 Turner Ave NW
Grand Rapids, MI 48544
USA

It appears to be a sizable place (http://deltaplex.com/).

Any guesses for final capacity?

Two fields, 60 - 65 teams each? Seems doable, especially if they set it up much like Worlds....pits in the convention center, etc and so forth...

Will be interesting to see how it's handled...

[thatprogrammer]

Team 4592 is now registered for the Bayou Regional! We're going to our first out of state event.

[Mark McLeod]

A lot of FiM teams are being added to events this weekend.
I've counted 50 so far.

In preparation for 3rd District signup on Tuesday I presume.

[Tungrus]

Why are teams not able to switch their district event now? Somehow at least one team is taken out from wait list and moved to another event where other teams were wait listed.

[jwfoss]

Now that 3rd District Reg is open, do we have any stats on teams attending 3 districts, or better question do we have any verified cross district playing?

[Steven Donow]

Now that 3rd District Reg is open, do we have any stats on teams attending 3 districts, or better question do we have any verified cross district playing?

Today was only third event, in district. Cross/Interdistrict doesn't open until January 9th

[page2067]

Now that 3rd District Reg is open, do we have any stats on teams attending 3 districts, or better question do we have any verified cross district playing?

So far 7 NE teams have registered for 3 districts.
174 NE teams registered at 10 districts. More spots available.

We'll be looking forward to seeing you guys at the same 3 districts along with 4055.

The attached spreadsheet shows all NED events and teams registered. 10 teams so far have only registered for 1 district.

[Alan Anderson]

Now that 3rd District Reg is open, do we have any stats on teams attending 3 districts, or better question do we have any verified cross district playing?

Right now, I see three teams signed up for all three Indiana district events.

Four of the 53 Indiana teams have yet to sign up for their second event.

[Link07]

Out of 122 MAR Teams (up from 110 in 2014)


6 Teams registered for 3 districts
116 Teams registered for 2 districts
0 teams registered for 1 district


As far as travel outside the district:

9 teams registered for 1 regional
1 team registered for 2 regionals

[AcesPease]

So far 7 NE teams have registered for 3 districts.
174 NE teams registered at 10 districts. More spots available.

We'll be looking forward to seeing you guys at the same 3 districts along with 4055.

The attached spreadsheet shows all NED events and teams registered. 10 teams so far have only registered for 1 district.

Wait lists have been cleared. Will this be updated? :)

Looking forward to kick off in Wolcott

[page2067]

Here is I believe an up to date spreadsheet for NE districts

I see Deep River may have only 1 event? or I missed.

Please let me know of errors.

Whoa - RI district upped the ante in the last go round!

NE district needs its own thread

Looking forward to KO

[cjl2625]

Here is I believe an up to date spreadsheet for NE districts

I see Deep River may have only 1 event? or I missed.

Please let me know of errors.

Whoa - RI district upped the ante in the last go round!

NE district needs its own thread

Looking forward to KO

5746 (from deep river) is signed up for waterbury and pioneer valley (springfield)

[page2067]

Here is updated/corrected file for NE districts

Deep River now set, but now 3609 from Portland seems to be down to one event.

10 teams have signed up for 3 events, 1 team (246 - Go BU!) has signed up for 4 events!

Potential of 39 more slots to be filled (assuming 40 per event).

C'mon outside district teams! we'd love to see you.

[Mark McLeod]

2908 teams were registered at Kickoff.
Highest rookie number is 5784

Five more than we guessed in October (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1403946&postcount=176) that we would end up with.

I expect a few more will drop out though and take us closer to the lower October estimate. For a multitude of reasons teams drop out all the way through the Regional and District events into April.

Still had 22 teams shuffled into events over the past week, so there is still some activity there.
And there is always the cross-district play opportunity opening up this Friday.

http://team358.org/images/2015Registration-Kickoff-sm.jpg (http://team358.org/images/2015Registration-Kickoff.jpg)

[Mark McLeod]

Inter-District registration opens at noon today.
Curious to see who wants to travel.

Events have been populating their team lists in anticipation.
The Michigan Bedford event added 13 teams.

[Basel A]

Inter-District registration opens at noon today.
Curious to see who wants to travel.

Events have been populating their team lists in anticipation.
The Michigan Bedford event added 13 teams.

FiM held the 3rd district lottery last night. Escanaba added a couple teams as well. With the number of Michigan teams that didn't get into Bedford, I wouldn't be surprised if a few showed up at Indiana districts.

[ATannahill]

As of now these are events with open spots listed. Some are not at 40 but do not have listed open spots.

FIM District - Escanaba Event (Week 5) - 8

IN District -Indianapolis (Week 1) - 1
IN District - Kokomo City of Firsts Event sponsored by AndyMark (Week 3) - 1

MAR District - North Brunswick Event (Week 6) - 1

NE District - Waterbury Event (Week 1) - 2
NE District - Pioneer Valley Event (Week 2) - 1
NE District - Pine Tree Event (Week 3) - 4
NE District - Rhode Island Event (Week 4) - 1
NE District - UMass - Dartmouth Event (Week 5) - 9

PNW District - West Valley Event (Week 2) - 4
PNW District - Philomath Event (Week 5) - 1

[Renee Becker-Blau]

As of now these are events with open spots listed. Some are not at 40 but do not have listed open spots.

The Indiana events have capacity for 40 teams, that means we have:

IN District -Indianapolis (Week 1) - 5 spots
IN District - Kokomo City of Firsts Event sponsored by AndyMark (Week 3) - 10 spots
IN District - Purdue District (week 4) - 1 spot

Andy Baker just posted more information about the Indiana events, feel free to ask questions about the Indiana District there, DM me for more information, or email info@indianafirst.org.



Our Week 1 Indianapolis event is over the weekend, limiting the time missed from school. The Week 3 Kokomo event is an hour and 45 minutes from the Michigan border and IndianaFIRST has been working with local hotels for group discounts. AndyMark is also willing to offer tours of our facility for interested teams.

If you want to learn more about the Indiana District events you can reach out to info@indianafirst.org.

I hope to see some teams from the other districts at our events. It's especially easy for some Michigan teams to scoot on down to Kokomo or Indy for these events.

Sincerely,
Andy Baker
President, AndyMark, Inc.

Renee Becker-Blau
Executive Director of IndianaFIRST

[Andrew Schreiber]

As of now these are events with open spots listed. Some are not at 40 but do not have listed open spots.

FIM District - Escanaba Event (Week 5) - 8

IN District -Indianapolis (Week 1) - 1
IN District - Kokomo City of Firsts Event sponsored by AndyMark (Week 3) - 1

MAR District - North Brunswick Event (Week 6) - 1

NE District - Waterbury Event (Week 1) - 2
NE District - Pioneer Valley Event (Week 2) - 1
NE District - Pine Tree Event (Week 3) - 4
NE District - Rhode Island Event (Week 4) - 1
NE District - UMass - Dartmouth Event (Week 5) - 9

PNW District - West Valley Event (Week 2) - 4
PNW District - Philomath Event (Week 5) - 1

Dartmouth is week 3.

[tindleroot]

135 decided to sign up for the Indy event (meaning we will go to all 3 IN events) since none of the FiM events that we wanted were open. Look out, Indianapolis - here comes Northern Indiana!:p

[Gregor]

What's the lowest numbered rookie team?

[Jacob Bendicksen]

What's the lowest numbered rookie team?

It says 5400 in the first post.

[Gregor]

It says 5400 in the first post.

Well that's embarrassing. Thanks.