2015 Game Hint!

[Flimsor]

At the Washington Girl's Generation event this past weekend, Blair Hundtermark made a surprise visit. He talked to the audience, and revealed that the 2015 game is in the bag, and media for it is currently being filmed. He also gave the following game hint:

"Think big, be big."

It's very uncommon for FIRST to put out a game hint this early, so it's legitimacy isn't completely certain. Seeing as it was at a PNW event, it could be region specific, but no one will know for sure until kickoff.

So, theories?

I think it would be awesome if this means the robots will have to join together to make one big robot, like in the Voltron anime, but of course that's almost impossible, and I'm kidding

Note: this isn't meant to be taken seriously, and is just a way to spark up conversation for the 2015 game as a way to pass the time.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Would they give a hint to only a select group of people? No.

Not a game hint.

[Joe G.]

Sounds like generic advice for being successful in any of FRC's prior 23 games, in any engineering challenge, and in life.

Not something meaningful details of the game can be derived from in the slightest (not that "official" game hints are any different).

[EricH]

Blair also revealed a game hint one year at Championship involving three colored lights.

It had no bearing on the next year's game.

[Oblarg]

It had no bearing on the next year's game.

To be completely fair, this could probably be said for a majority of official game hints.

[EricH]

To be completely fair, this could probably be said for a majority of official game hints.

If it's labeled as "Official XXXX Game Hint #Y", it usually does have some bearing. It just never shows as obvious until Kickoff that year.

[Oblarg]

If it's labeled as "Official XXXX Game Hint #Y", it usually does have some bearing.

For a very loose definition of "bearing." IIRC, the game hint for Lunacy was a picture of a fish (admittedly it was a "moon fish," but still...).

[Joe G.]

For a very loose definition of "bearing." IIRC, the game hint for Lunacy was a picture of a fish (admittedly it was a "moon fish," but still...).

The thing is, for a game hint to be of actual use, fully solving it without any further context must provide tangible insight into how the "solution" could actually manifest itself in the game, or at the very least, steer your pre-kickoff thoughts in a relevantly focused direction. With this in mind, lets look at some solutions to recent game hints:

2014: Assists. Gives us a part of the game name, and the nebulous idea that passing will be useful. Nothing to suggest how this will be put in practice, nothing to suggest big balls, launching, 2008 throwback, etc. As a designer, no benefit.

2013: Reference to a pyramid, disks, and using weight to calculate score. Quite a stretch to go from "pyramid" to "climb this weird pipe structure sequentially with very specific rules". Same with disks, there are a lot of disk objects that could have been used. And what on earth were we supposed to learn about gameplay by knowing that weight would be used for measuring something? As a designer, very marginal benefit requiring lucky guesses.

2012: High speed counters, rapid real time scoring. An element of several very different games before and after 2012. No information whatsoever to point to balls, shooting, or bridges. As a designer, no benefit.

2011: Locomotion + Logo = Logomotion, to a lesser extent, pillar --> minibot pole. No way to determine the minibot task, or even the very concept of minibots. No way to determine the name of the game will be implemented through inner tubes on pegs. As a designer, no benefit.

2010: If I recall, someone actually did reverse engineer the CAD drawing to estimate a gamepiece roughly the diameter of a soccer ball. Soccer-esque rules had to be pulled from thin air, as 2002 showed that soccer balls as a gamepiece didn't necessarily mean kicking mechanisms. And the extra gate nebulously suggested field obstruction, leading to thoughts about rough terrain drives. Absolutely nothing to suggest hanging. As a designer, very marginal benefit from the gate, potentially more benefit from the soccer ball.

2009: Moonfish. Without any more information, very hard to jump from this to a simulation of reduced gravity. Nothing to suggest mass ball game, or the funky design of the Moonrocks. As a designer, no benefit.

For the past 6 years, there has been very little to gain from the game hints even if they are fully solved, and absolutely nothing of value from four of the six when you consider what you can learn from them without the benefit of hindsight. This is why I, and most people who have been around for a while, just filter out the inevitable 500+ post thread each year, and don't expend effort searching for these unofficial "hints," much less trying to solve them.

[RunawayEngineer]

I think all the hysteria over game hints is inherited from a few hints that actually had the possibility to be revealing.
For instance, 2007's game hint:
http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedImages/Community/FRC/Assets/2007Clue1.jpg

actually shows a possible configuration of game piece on its scoring target. It is not obvious by any means, but it was observed as a possibility.
Hints like this spurred on the idea that if you looked hard enough, you would get something advantageous.
However, I have never heard of a team that actually used a game hint - official or otherwise - to even attempt to gain a head start.

[Derpancakes]

Guys, it's space. So many space-related events are happening in 2015, and 'think big'? (Insert Wheatley quote here)

[Whippet]

Guys, it's space. So many space-related events are happening in 2015, and 'think big'? (Insert Wheatley quote here)

SPAAAAAAAAAACE!

[Tungrus]

What could be bigger than 2' exercise ball? Can it be shot or pushed it into crescent shaped goal?

[therobo-titan]

"Think big, be big". So it would have to be something big that when you become part of it, you become as big as it is. When you put an extra drop of water into the ocean, it becomes indistinguishable from the rest of the water, and thus can be as big as the entire body. It can only mean one thing:

WATER GAME CONFIRMED!

[Chadfrom308]

Big, the ocean is ~72% of the world, which to me, is relatively big. Water game :deadhorse:

[EricH]

What could be bigger than 2' exercise ball?

How about a 3.5' exercise ball, from 2008? Same construction and everything, just bigger.

[Oblarg]

How about a 3.5' exercise ball, from 2008? Same construction and everything, just bigger.

That was, by far, my favorite FRC game piece. So much fun!

[weaversam8]

The word Knight can be found in THINKBIGBEBIG

[g_sawchuk]

The word Knight can be found in THINKBIGBEBIG
Underwater jousting?

[Libby K]

Would they give a hint to only a select group of people? No.

Not a game hint.

^This.

[Lil' Lavery]

Would they give a hint to only a select group of people? No.

Not a game hint.

It's happened before.

[Derpancakes]

I'm with the people that write this off as not a clue. Remember last year how the rumor mill was rampant with the 'hint' that glow-in-the-dark measuring tape would help with the 2014 challenge?

[Flimsor]

I'm with the people that write this off as not a clue. Remember last year how the rumor mill was rampant with the 'hint' that glow-in-the-dark measuring tape would help with the 2014 challenge?

That wasn't even stated to be a game hint. It was only said to be useful in the game, which was because it's measuring tape and measuring parts is sort of important in making a robot. It didn't reference the game specifically.

[tindleroot]

The word Knight can be found in THINKBIGBEBIG

Team 135 is fine with that:D

[magnets]

It's happened before.

When? I thought game hints have always been in email blasts/blogs/FIRST website.

[Peyton Yeung]

I'm with the people that write this off as not a clue. Remember last year how the rumor mill was rampant with the 'hint' that glow-in-the-dark measuring tape would help with the 2014 challenge?

FTC has tape measures on the sides of the goals ;)

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

Still October?

Not a hint. Get back to doing your school homework.

[welderman.691]

Big, the ocean is ~72% of the world, which to me, is relatively big. Water game :deadhorse:


OMG, please, please be true. Ideal name for robot: frogger. Even though this theory has been exhausted (for now...) the waterproofing of the cRio was probably for spills and mishaps, like rain. Also, have you considered big to mean anything else other than being literally big? How about a big change in game rules or alliances, what if it is referring to MORE THAN 3 TEAM ALLIANCES?

Better keep all options open just to be (/puts on z87+ sunglasses approved by OCEA) SAFE. :cool: ::safety::

[Lil' Lavery]

When? I thought game hints have always been in email blasts/blogs/FIRST website.

There have been numerous occasions where people affiliated with FIRST HQ and/or the GDC have made comments they claimed to be clues at various FRC events.

[Maxwell777]

Underwater jousting?

And FIRST has 3 shapes
And the game will be in 2015
And 15 + 3 = 18
And 3 and 6 are factors of 18
And 6, 3 times is 666

And jousting knights have lances
And Lances have a point
And a 3 ball auto won the game last year
And Triangles have 3 points

Satanic Underwater Illuminati Jousting confirmed?

[fwoop_fwoop]

How about a big change in game rules or alliances, what if it is referring to MORE THAN 3 TEAM ALLIANCES?


Frank did make a blog post (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-NASA-Grants-and-Something-New-for-2015) where he talked about how each year they review all the rules, and might even change # of alliance members or # of alliances per game...

:ahh: WHAT IF THEY CHANGE THE GAME TO HAVE 3 ALLIANCES OF 2 TEAMS???:ahh:

[cgmv123]

:ahh: WHAT IF THEY CHANGE THE GAME TO HAVE 3 ALLIANCES OF 2 TEAMS???:ahh:

It would turn into a 4v2 game fairly quickly.

[The_ShamWOW88]

What if it was a game hint for the game hint?

:eek:

[fwoop_fwoop]

It would turn into a 4v2 game fairly quickly.

Not necessarily, if they put in place rules to prevent it. For example, they could make it so that during qualifiers you gain bonus points based on the score of the 3rd place alliance. That way, teams would be encouraged not to make 4 v 2 situations, as then they would receive less ranking points.

[ArtemusMaximus]

The word Knight can be found in THINKBIGBEBIG

Gib E Gib Knight? LOL

[ASolovay16]

I honestly think it will be something dealing with volleyball. Last year FIRST had a catching feature to the game to understand it's feasibility.

Take away the net to catch and a mini trampoline. In volleyball, that's your bump and set. The really good teams will be able to spike. Luckily my robotics team has one of the best volleyball players in the state on the mechanical team.

[Caleb Sykes]

Not necessarily, if they put in place rules to prevent it. For example, they could make it so that during qualifiers you gain bonus points based on the score of the 3rd place alliance. That way, teams would be encouraged not to make 4 v 2 situations, as then they would receive less ranking points.

I hope not.

It seems like when FIRST uses any other first seeding sort besides Win/Loss/Tie, all it does is make strange and confusing strategies develop. For example, see 6v0 matches in 2010 and alliances fighting against themselves in 2012 because some members wanted to coop balance and some didn't. FIRST can't even fully control the game-play of two alliances on the field, and they never will be able to do so, so I hope they are done trying. The dynamics of a 3-alliance game are many times more complex than those of a 2-alliance game, and any attempts by FIRST to dictate what teams should or should not do in these situations will probably only cause more pain and confusion in my opinion.

[Henrique Schmit]

I really doubt there would be more than 2 alliances, it would make the game way too complicated. On the other hand, even though 4 team alliances might overpopulate the field, big alliances could be FIRST's solution to occupy the extra space that will come when the FTC and FLL championships change buildings. I guess there will be one big change in the primary rules, like they did with lunacy by changing the floor and allowed wheels.

[75vs1885]

Would they give a hint to only a select group of people? No.

Not a game hint.

I agree, but I almost feel by them saying that, that there will be a big change. A big change would apply perfectly to what he said.

[Briansmithtown]

Think big? You need to build a bear.

[lewislongbottom]

I feel like there will be catching, throwing, or gathering element to the game, including a pick up mechanism because of the history of past games. Also the need for a faster more versatile drivetrain, capable of avoiding defense is becoming more of a game changer. If there is a change in size of anything it could possibly have to do with the field becoming larger since that hasn't happened recently if ever? Who knows!!

[orangemoore]

I feel like there will be catching, throwing, or gathering element to the game, including a pick up mechanism because of the history of past games. Also the need for a faster more versatile drivetrain, capable of avoiding defense is becoming more of a game changer. If there is a change in size of anything it could possibly have to do with the field becoming larger since that hasn't happened recently if ever? Who knows!!

Technically the field did get smaller this year to accommodate the human player zones. :D

[SoulianPride]

Playing off the idea that these words meant something, it could mean that the challenge is bigger than it has ever been before. It could also mean that the game pieces there year are large and bulky compared to years prior. Another student from my team seems to think that tetrahedrons will be used as game pieces although we have no idea what for.

[Lil' Lavery]

Another student from my team seems to think that tetrahedrons will be used as game pieces although we have no idea what for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ePwDtrthWE

[JesseK]

Forget a water game. I'm hoping for a moon bounce game.

[Shrub]

If we get water on the moon,we can have a moon bounce water game! :ahh:

[Briansmithtown]

Forget a water game. I'm hoping for a moon bounce game.

Lunacy?

[Omena Mushale]

Let's see...I'm thinking something about space. There's been a space challenge before, in FLL (Mars Mission 2005), and one in FRC (Lunacy 2009) but I've been hearing some small talk lately. I have a feeling that the 2015 FRC challenge has something to do with space.

[Oblarg]

Lunacy?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Never again.

[Electronica1]

Forget a water game. I'm hoping for a moon bounce game.

Robots with Moon Shoes?

[Jon Stratis]

Hmmmm... A hint tweeted by Dean?

https://twitter.com/deankamen/status/531972801453129729

What could it be?

[Libby K]

Hmmmm... A hint tweeted by Dean?

https://twitter.com/deankamen/status/531972801453129729

What could it be?

Please note the twitter bio.

Inventor of the Segway, Founder of First Robotics. (Account not managed by Dean)

[Jon Stratis]

Please note the twitter bio.

Oh come on, you can't let the kids squirm, theorize, and try to link it to a water game for even a little while?:D

[Kimmeh]

Oh come on, you can't let the kids squirm, theorize, and try to link it to a water game for even a little while?:D

Nope. Because for those of us in the north, a water game turns into an ice game, which becomes Lunacy. And I don't think any of us want that. =P

[SpaceBiz]

"hint hint" two hints
the picture has two big holes

The next game has something to do with 2

[ks68]

"hint hint" two hints
the picture has two big holes

The next game has something to do with 2

2v2v2?

[Whippet]

"hint hint" two hints
the picture has two big holes

The next game has something to do with 2

There are two Hydrogen atoms in a water molecule. Water game confirmed.

[GaryVoshol]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Never again.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Lunacy was SO easy to ref!

[kstl99]

Hmmmm... A hint tweeted by Dean?

https://twitter.com/deankamen/status/531972801453129729

What could it be?

OOPS, it is gone. The tweet was there earlier today but is no longer there. Hmmm...

[75vs1885]

think big, be big.....bigger robot dimensions
as for the 3 colored lights hint that was apparently given out last year...red, yellow, and green. A giant traffic jam is my prediction.
jk,
but there is no real point to making any guesses, although making a cool proposal is different. I was thinking that FIRST will eventually use several game pieces from prior seasons in one game!!

[piersklein]

And FIRST has 3 shapes
And the game will be in 2015
And 15 + 3 = 18
And 3 and 6 are factors of 18
And 6, 3 times is 666

And jousting knights have lances
And Lances have a point
And a 3 ball auto won the game last year
And Triangles have 3 points

Satanic Underwater Illuminati Jousting confirmed?

Am time traveling alien Illuminati founder, can confirm

[Twins Inc.]

Honestly. I really, reallllly hope they bring some sort of Minibot back this year. A quad flying at a target would be sweet, or little racecars wheeling somewhere, just something with a minibot.
And yet....then teams might mass-produce then again....so maybe not.


OR I've always dreamed that there will be a King of the Hill game where we have to jump UP on a raised platform. Well, Ive been daydreaming really, tis the season...:)

[Briansmithtown]

Maybe the robots will be double the legal weight this year... You need to hit the gym from kickoff until the competitions, and you will get big... Just imagine the weight rooms at championships hotels.

[tindleroot]

OR I've always dreamed that there will be a King of the Hill game where we have to jump UP on a raised platform. Well, Ive been daydreaming really, tis the season...:)

2003, Stack Attack had a "King of the Hill" aspect, which is a main reason that 111, 469, and 65 won the championships. There was a big ramp in the middle of the field where teams would get points for being up there at the end. Check out the game animation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEefJljqyQU).

[rich2202]

"Think big, be big."


Hot air balloon robot.

or,

One really big game piece that takes all 3 robots to move.

[Lorianadonovan]

::safety:: Guys, it's space. So many space-related events are happening in 2015, and 'think big'? (Insert Wheatley quote here)
It could be space related but that's highly unlikely
Maybe they are changing the size requirements for the robot

[Eli_1860]

Hello guys! This is my first time here at chief Delphi. I am from the team 1860 from Brazil, we haven't seen the hint yet. Can any of you send me the hint or a link?

Thank you very much!

[Andrew Lawrence]

Hello guys! This is my first time here at chief Delphi. I am from the team 1860 from Brazil, we haven't seen the hint yet. Can any of you send me the hint or a link?

Thank you very much!

There is no hint. People are just making things up with there imagination.

[Mr V]

Hello guys! This is my first time here at chief Delphi. I am from the team 1860 from Brazil, we haven't seen the hint yet. Can any of you send me the hint or a link?

Thank you very much!

It wasn't a hint, it was a MC getting the crowd excited at an off season event. Which of course caused people here to start speculating.

Note the final line of the first post.

Note: this isn't meant to be taken seriously, and is just a way to spark up conversation for the 2015 game as a way to pass the time.

[Eli_1860]

Oh I got it! Thanks!

[alephzer0]

I really love how far people stretch logic to confirm a water game.
Wait a second...Stretching...you have to stretch before you swim...
Water game confirmed!

[Team118Joseph]

And the third letter in stretch is R. Water ends with R. Also pirates love the letter R. Pirates sail in water. The game will be a water game about putting an "end" to internet piracy... and hockey. Under water hockey fighting pirates! ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽/R u ready mates!ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽/

[brandon.cottrell]

And the third letter in stretch is R. Water ends with R. Also pirates love the letter R. Pirates sail in water. The game will be a water game about putting an "end" to internet piracy... and hockey. Under water hockey fighting pirates! ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽/R u ready mates!ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽/

ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ raise your minibots ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ

[cglrcng]

EVERY FIRST FRC GAME is BIG! (And it takes all of you to always make FIRST EVEN BIGGER!)

Frank's FIRST FRC Blog post from Wednesday Oct. 1, 2014 is loaded with hints. (And each says nothing except "Something New!" and CHANGES are on the way...A new change or a series of changes. Nothing new there.

Something New – The 2015 FRC Game

Wait. Isn’t the new game always, well, new? Yes, but that’s the point of this note. Every year we try to do a little something different. Sometimes a lot of something different. No one should look at any rules from prior years and think “They would never change that”, because we may. Number of teams on an alliance, number of alliances in a match, match length, bumper rules, field surfaces, robot size, every element from prior year games is carefully considered anew every year. You should make no assumptions. This is all we can say, and all we plan to say on this. All will be revealed on January 3, 2015!*

Frank

*Looking at this, if I were a team, and knew nothing about the 2015 game, I might be nervous. Knowing the game, though, I think there’s nothing to be nervous about. OK, almost nothing.


Ok, http://www.andymark.com/Field-p/am-2800.htm shows the basic field perimeter...

"Product Overview:
This is a new version of the FRC Field Perimeter used in the past years' FRC games.

FIRST® has determined that this Field Perimeter has the ‘fit and function’ necessary for use in the 2015 FRC. Any changes required for use in subsequent years will be the responsibility of the purchaser. AndyMark, not FIRST, is responsible for product quality, warranty, safety, and all other issues related to this product.

The intent of offering this perimeter is to provide hardware for FRC District and Regional events, FRC teams and communities to have a high quality FRC field for competition, expo, practice, and demonstration purposes.

This perimeter includes side rails, gates, alliance stations, and four (4) shipping crates. The perimeter does not include field carpet, electronics nor the game specific items for each year....."
______________
And, though "not including Game Specific Items," still says a ton if you look really close enough.

Three alliance stations on each end, still. I will take a stab in the dark here and see if it matches after the game reveal Jan 3rd....3 Alliances of 2 (3 Alliance colors of Red, Blue & White), operating as Alliance Station 1 to 1 across the field end to end, (2/2, and 3/3). Still 6 robots on the field at all times. No ideas on the game piece(s), or the game itself.

The biggest hints are ("You should make no assumptions. This is all we can say, and all we plan to say on this)."

Prediction: There will be NO OFFICIAL GAME HINTS this year concerning the actual game. And that is something sort of NEW! (Locomotion was pretty spot on to the Game Title).
______________

They could really change things up (Stand everything from prior years right on it's head), and form 3 alliances from all teams in the competition field, not just on the field at any 1 time (6 single teams competing in each round of the game), with 2 Alliance members of a huge 1/3rd of the the total field of the competing teams (2 red, 2 blue, 2 white, 2 on each end)...And all of the alliance scores are added together, at the end of each round,...Nah, Never Mind...."They would never change that!" LOL.

I just hope the changes of more room in the Dome at St Louis in April, means actually more FRC teams qualifying for Championships & attending...And, that all of the civil unrest locally is finished with in the area, so Championship week is fun (and VERY SAFE), for the students & others attending. Pray for Peace soon.

January 3rd. is exactly 4 weeks away.....It's Almost TIIIIIIIIIIME! (Now.. Fighting out of the Blue Alliance.......Standing At 3'-8" in height, 135 massive lbs, with a reach of 42.8" ...A mass of carefully selected and crafted battery, wires, aluminium, and silicone, it's brand new RoboRio brain at the ready, & wearing the blue bumpers, with a record of 8 wins, 1 loss, and zero ties.....).