2015 HINT DISCUSSION

[Bochek]

GO!

[cmrnpizzo14]

Hint here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAETANAiLw0&feature=youtu.be

"Change is coming"

Woah, this hint is weird.... what do you think?

[SoulianPride]

So, opinions on the official release of the 2015 game hint?

[DonRotolo]

You know: Pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters absolutely frighten me.
You see, I am afraid of change...:rolleyes: :p

[lucas.alvarez96]

Recycling of the changes present in all the mentioned years?

[VacioArconte]

They are recycling something... and the water cycle recycles water... water game confirmed?

[SoulianPride]

Recycling game pieces? Adding a 3rd alliance?

[smarthimandrew]

The timestamps are important.

[Refresh]

Alright, let me see if I can follow the clues...

Change is coming is a riff off of Winter is coming from Game of Thrones...
Winter is the 4th season of the year...
Water freezes in the winter...
Water game confirmed?

[matthewdenny]

What did you think?

What does throwing away the manual mean?

Not all years were in there...

Thoughts?

[SoulianPride]

Alright, let me see if I can follow the clues...

Change is coming is a riff off of Winter is coming from Game of Thrones...
Winter is the 4th season of the year...
Water freezes in the winter...
Water game confirmed?

This logic is hard to beat.

[beefbobjones]

Well, I know some people think the recycling thing will involve reusing old game pieces/ mechanics but I just feel like that would give new teams a real disadvantage.

[dodar]

2002 Stack Attack + 2009 Lunacy = 2015 Game Confirmed

[indubitably]

Recycling the 2014 game:

adding endgame
some other major change

[BenBraun3090]

Can anyone list all the years that they made changes and what they are? that might help if there is a pattern.

[Anthony4004]

Well, I know some people think the recycling thing will involve reusing old game pieces/ mechanics but I just feel like that would give new teams a real disadvantage.

Not quite, considering how much footage and material is on the web. They can easily do well.

[JohnFogarty]

the return of the end game

[Minten]

Water game

[guniv]

Video is up on FRC's YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAETANAiLw0&feature=youtu.be

[BenBraun3090]

Recycling the 2014 game:

adding endgame
some other major change

I doubt that they're going to do that. That would just be really boring and against anything creative.

[NHoffmann]

All the years were covered, just lag was bad enough that a few appeared to get skipped.

[Anthony4004]

Also, next years FLL game has to do with recycling......pattern? I would think so.

[NWalker]

Change is coming
change
coins
circles
hockey pucks
ice
water
WATER GAME CONFIRMED!!!

He recycles the 2014 Manual
recycling
blue
water
WATER GAME DOUBLY CONFIRMED!!!

Change is coming
16 letters
FIRST
5 letters
5*2=10
16-10=6
6 upside down looks like 9
Water Game has 9 letters
WATER GAME TRIPLY CONFIRMED!!!

[Minten]

I can't tell if water or pizza. But pizza = triangle = Illuminati confirmed.

[who716]

alot of dumping into biins

[The_ShamWOW88]

two different gamepieces....

[nfhammes]

So, "Change is coming" prefaced by a list of games, their major rules changes to basic elements of how the games work, most of which occurred in odd years. So the field is changing shape, composition, or dimensions, or something else.

I don't see how this is substantially more information than when Frank mentioned earlier in the year to take nothing for granted, that anything might change. If the recycling bin is relevant, it might be saying "We're bringing something old back, that we've long-since changed". Perhaps the 3v3 model is changing? That could relate to the way Einstein is being run, since the footage seemed to be all from Einstein.

[indubitably]

I doubt that they're going to do that. That would just be really boring and against anything creative.

There was a whole thread discussing the possibility, the GDC had considered 3 year game cycles way back when but perhaps a surprise 2 year game cycle?

They literally recycled the 2014 game manual in the video lol

[tindleroot]

Frank is standing on an FRC field when he recycles the manual

[TAlholm]

I added the intervals and got 19. The number 19 has been retired the most in the NHL

[thatprogrammer]

It looks to me like frank flipped 2 pages. That means he was on the page with assists and cycles. Add in the fact that he threw it into a recycling bin, and it seems like we might be looking at how cycles are done changing.

[BenBraun3090]

1993: robots increase in size and go wireless
1996: robot weight increases
1999: robot alliances begin
2001: robots race against the clock
2003: autonomous mode introduced
2005: 3 vs. 3 introduced
2009: primary field surface isn't carpet for the first time since 1992
2013: field perimeter changes

Those are all the changes listed in the video

[matthewdenny]

All the years were covered, just lag was bad enough that a few appeared to get skipped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAETANAiLw0&feature=youtu.be

You are correct.

[StAxis]

Is there something not part of the field walls in the very bottom right part of the frame at the very end?

I'm also curious if recycling might have something to do with more relaxed rules for reusing parts?

[weaversam8]

I believe I heard that all of the footage in this video was from Einstein fields.

[matthewdenny]

Frank is standing on an FRC field when he recycles the manual

Does the rail look higher than usual?

[dodar]

Is there something not part of the field walls in the very bottom right part of the frame at the very end?

I'm also curious if recycling might have something to do with more relaxed rules for reusing parts?

I saw that too but cant tell because of the reflection of the gate.

[markmcgary]

2013: field perimeter changes

I think it was the robot perimeter that changed.

[magnets]

A list of all FRC games with changes called out emphasizes the weird changes/twists FIRST has done in the past. This makes me think this year's game will be a unique one. Next, he claims "change is coming", then recycles the 2014 rules.

I really, really, really, really hope they aren't recycling the 2014 rules and adding some changes. It's one of my biggest fears :ahh:

[BenBraun3090]

There was a whole thread discussing the possibility, the GDC had considered 3 year game cycles way back when but perhaps a surprise 2 year game cycle?

They literally recycled the 2014 game manual in the video lol

Even though they did this, there are still a lot of other ways to take that.

[AlexChoi]

There is a single instance of the word "recycle" in the 2014 game manual.
http://i.gyazo.com/9a10fb70557196f556276052d5dd3613.png

This is in the permitted motors section. Maybe their's something to do with windows? ie. drivers don't get a window any more. That one guy on the phone that mentioned it may be on to something.

[artK]

Not all the footage is from Einstein. The 2012 footage comes from the Archimedes finals, the 2009 footage is from something other than Einstein.

[Anthony4004]

There was a whole thread discussing the possibility, the GDC had considered 3 year game cycles way back when but perhaps a surprise 2 year game cycle?

They literally recycled the 2014 game manual in the video lol

Exactly. Frank didnt simply throw it away, he recycled it.
Also, care to take a wager that the fact he was on the game field relevant?

[tindleroot]

Has anyone considered that Frank simply used a recycling bin simply because he wants to help save the environment? I think the "change" is more pertinent to the game than the recycling.

[BenBraun3090]

Is there something not part of the field walls in the very bottom right part of the frame at the very end?

I'm also curious if recycling might have something to do with more relaxed rules for reusing parts?

I'm not sure if there is anything, but that's that seems like it could be pretty good for the recycling.

[theCADguy]

The Greek Letter delta represents change in math, and is a triangle. A recycling symbol also is a triangle. Maybe triangular game pieces?

[Ekcrbe]

That could relate to the way Einstein is being run, since the footage seemed to be all from Einstein.

It's not. The 2012 clip is from Archimedes, as evidenced by the scoreboard note at the bottom.

[cmrnpizzo14]

He recycles the hint but says change is coming. "The more things change, the more they stay the same"?

[SoulianPride]

Is there something not part of the field walls in the very bottom right part of the frame at the very end?
It looks like it's just the gate for exiting the field to me...

[Donut]

alot of dumping into biins

Let's just take the literal approach.

Recycling bins are the 2015 game piece. The bin is on the field for the hint after all.

[Jared]

I believe I heard that all of the footage in this video was from Einstein fields.

2012 is from archimedes finals with 1114, 2056, and 4334.

Compared to Frank, the recycling bin appears to be a tall and skinny one (up to his hips), but compared to the field border, it seems quite short.

I might just be seeing things though...

[mrnoble]

Almost every bit of the footage showed something happening at the highest height that each year shown reached for. It seems pretty straightforward on that front: we will be going high this year, probably with an elevator. Taller maximum starting configuration? High goal at 15'?

I suspect that they are serious that there will be unprecedented changes to the robots and game play this year. We won't be cruising through build season, I think.

[DavisC]

The Greek Letter delta represents change in math, and is a triangle. A recycling symbol also is a triangle. Maybe triangular game pieces?

True! Also, the recycling bin of course has a triangle on it!

[JeffersonMartin]

The paperclip on the game manual looked somewhat triangular. 3 team alliances?

[Anteprefix]

Recycle the letters in "change is coming" and you get "mechanics going".

[Jarren Harkema]

Has anyone considered that Frank simply used a recycling bin simply because he wants to help save the environment? I think the "change" is more pertinent to the game than the recycling.

He forgot to take out the giant paperclip holding the pages together. Any recycler would know not to mix your materials.

[Anthony4004]

1993: robots increase in size and go wireless
1996: robot weight increases
1999: robot alliances begin
2001: robots race against the clock
2003: autonomous mode introduced
2005: 3 vs. 3 introduced
2009: primary field surface isn't carpet for the first time since 1992
2013: field perimeter changes

Those are all the changes listed in the video

3-3-2-2-4-4?
Also, Frank was on the 2nd page which (as someone pointed out) is the page about assist and cycling. What if this points back to this cycle? Which would be now

3-3-2-2-4-4-2

Does this mean were looking at 2003?

[mrnoble]

The Greek Letter delta represents change in math, and is a triangle. A recycling symbol also is a triangle. Maybe triangular game pieces?

I think you may be right. Game will be called "First Delta", with triangular game pieces.

[DHP7320]

2015 Jr FLL and FLL challenges both have to do with waste & recycling. Waste Wise and Trash Trek are the respective challenge names. Maybe the FRC game theme will follow suit.

http://juniorfirstlegoleague.org/2015-waste-wise-challenge.html
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/challenge/2015trashtrek

[brandon.cottrell]

the 2009 footage is from something other than Einstein.

2009 Michigan FIRST Robotics Competition State Championship Quarter Finals 3-?, cant tell which one, also this was Michigan's First Season with Districts.

[BenBraun3090]

2003 would be a good game to recycle for this year. there hasn't been any manipulation games for any of the current high school FRC participants. so a manipulation game would be a big chang

[SoulianPride]

A Delta is a piece of land shaped like a triangle that is formed when a river splits into smaller rivers before it flows into an ocean. Water game confirmed?

In all seriousness I think the field will be triangular this year and will add a 3rd alliance whether it be 2v2v2 or 3v3v3

[Jared]

A Delta is a piece of land shaped like a triangle that is formed when a river splits into smaller rivers before it flows into an ocean. Water game confirmed?

In all seriousness I think the field will be triangular this year and will add a 3rd alliance whether it be 2v2v2 or 3v3v3

FIRST approved this field by andymark for the 2015 game, and it's still our favorite 27'x54'.
http://www.andymark.com/Field-p/am-2800.htm

[Maine951]

I made a list of all the games showed and what were said under the year and title. Over all these are all the ones that had some type of caption to the title.

1992 Maize Craze: Inavgural Competition
1993 Rub Rage: Robots increase in size and go wireless
1996 Hexagon Havoc: Robot weight increase
1999 Double Trouble: Robot Alliances begin
2001 Diabolical Dynamics: Robots race against clock
2003 Stack Attack: Autonamous mode introduced
2005 Trupple Play: 3v3 Introduced
2009 Lunacy Primary field surface isn't carpet for first time since 1992
2013 Ultimate Ascent : Frame perimeter changes

The pattern is the sizes of the robots and the alliances.

[Anthony4004]

A Delta is a piece of land shaped like a triangle that is formed when a river splits into smaller rivers before it flows into an ocean. Water game confirmed?

In all seriousness I think the field will be triangular this year and will add a 3rd alliance whether it be 2v2v2 or 3v3v3

I feel this woukd be too far of a stretch, as it would be harder to hold competitions, as well as new fields would have to be created for just this.

[BenBraun3090]

FIRST approved this field by andymark for the 2015 game, and it's still our favorite 27'x54'.
http://www.andymark.com/Field-p/am-2800.htm

and if the field is still 27'x54' then i doubt that we would have 3 alliances

[mrnoble]

I'd be willing to say the field could go to a "delta" shape and have three alliances, except for the fact that the AndyMark field has been pre-approved for the 2015 game. They just can't go back on that, unless there is an alternate way to build the field (which I don't think is the case). We will stay with two alliances.

[dodar]

How has no one brought up the biggest change!?! No more safety glasses needed while on the field.

[E Dawg]

No game rules will change, but the FRC game will begin to receive "themes" like FLL does - in this case, waste and recycling.

Metahint.

[BenBraun3090]

No game rules will change, but the FRC game will begin to receive "themes" like FLL does - in this case, waste and recycling.

Metahint.

so how would this be a hint to the game itself?

[Michael Hill]

What if by "change", he means money?

[E Dawg]

so how would this be a hint to the game itself?

We know that the game this year is about recycling?

[mrnoble]

What if by "change", he means money?

I cheaper game to play? Noice.

[GKrotkov]

This video is exactly 1 minute long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAETANAiLw0&feature=youtu.be

Is match time becoming one minute? That would certainly be a change.

[magnets]

What if by "change", he means money?

I would be okay if he was telling us that money is coming:rolleyes:

[EricH]

and if the field is still 27'x54' then i doubt that we would have 3 alliances

I don't even need a field size to tell me that there will never, ever, ever be 3 alliances on the field. Just hearing about what happened in 1998--and the reaction from FIRST, in 1999--is more than enough. Won't be 3 alliances... but might be 4-team alliances.


My opinion:

We will see some prior game, from 1992-2014 inclusive, or some combination of such games, with changes for XvX, where X>=3, and enough changes to make it unrecognizable.

Anybody wanna play 2000 with footballs and the option to shoot?

[Michael Hill]

I would be okay if he was telling us that money is coming:rolleyes:

Maybe they found a way to drastically reduce the cost of running a regional and are going to refund everyone $1000!!! I'll take it.

[tindleroot]

Many game hints are actually just name reveals. 2011 revealed "Logomotion" and last year revealed "Assists", and I think 2013 did a similar thing.

[IronicDeadBird]

If you listen carefully to the noise the paper makes as it hits the recycling bin it sounds like its saying.
Water game....
HALF LIFE 3 CONFIRMED!!!!!!

[Michael Hill]

Many game hints are actually just name reveals. 2011 revealed "Logomotion" and last year revealed "Assists", and I think 2013 did a similar thing.

"Recycled Robots"

[Anthony Galea]

People have paper balls wadded up and throw them into recycling bins and play it like basketball. 2014 rules were thrown into the basket, so assists are being recycled. 2011 didn't have the change in the video.

2012 basketball, with scoring, 2014 assists system, 2011 endgame.

[StAxis]

A lot of people seem to be on the triangle hype train right now. Triangular paper clip, change being symbolized by delta, and to add to that, the interior angles of an equilateral triangle are 60 degrees, which is exactly how long the video is in seconds.

[Beaker]

2015 Jr FLL and FLL challenges both have to do with waste & recycling. Waste Wise and Trash Trek are the respective challenge names. Maybe the FRC game theme will follow suit.

http://juniorfirstlegoleague.org/2015-waste-wise-challenge.html
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/challenge/2015trashtrek

Also in FLL this year, the field surface changed from canvas (higher traction) to a slippery paper surface.

The recycling bin could be recycling old surfaces from (hopefully not) 2009 Lunacy. Otherwise: water game confirmed.

[brandon.cottrell]

Actually, touching back on my earlier point that the 2009 and 2012 clips weren't Einstein, there were some things that "Changed" that year too.

2009 was the first year for Districts in Michigan, and sure enough a clip from Michigan was shown.

2012 was the first year a team from somewhere outside the U.S. won the Chairman's Award, and sure enough 1114 was shown.

[mrnoble]

[QUOTE=StAxis;1416100]A lot of people seem to be on the triangle hype train right now. /QUOTE]

Count me in that group. The name of the game will include the word "delta".

[David8696]

The song from the video is a royalty-free track called "Social Disgrace" from a stock music website called Wavtracks music:

http://www.wavtracks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=41&products_id=251

[zachrobo1]

Okay, here is my personal breakdown of the topic from what has happened so far. I tried to sort it based on assumptions.

Hint: "Change is Coming"

Assumption: Change is taken to mean "the act or instance of making or becoming different."

Conclusion: Drastically different game than we've seen before. Perhaps no high goals; maybe a hockey game? This could be a multitude of things, especially due to the fact that they referenced a whole bunch of previous games.

Assumption: The game has something to do with paper/bins.
Conclusion: Perhaps we are scoring elements in bins, and then moving the bins? Maybe there will be goals attached to robots? Perhaps the recycling aspect will have something to do with re-scoring already scored elements.

Assumption: Change is taken to mean currency or coins.

Conclusion: Really small game pieces?

These are just my scattered thoughts right now.. more to come later

[Jade Z]

Last year much grief was given to FIRST about the overuse of penalties in the game. Numerous essays were written on the subject and posted on this very forum. The biggest complaint about Aerial Assist, the 2014 game, was that the rules were too strict.

He's throwing away the game manual- perhaps the penalties are going back to a more reasonable volume. They've realized the referees can't reasonably watch for an entire book of infractions at once.

[Nate Laverdure]

http://www.manchesternh.gov/Recycle-Manchester/What-Can-I-Recycle

[BriteBacon]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but most, if not all, of the clips have to do with how scoring took place in that year.

[PopeRyanI]

If you rearrange the letters in "change is coming" you get mechanics going among other.

Anyway I support the triangle idea.

[Pratik Kunapuli]

The last year where there were mobile goals not attached to robots was in 2004. Perhaps the recycling bin on the floor means there will be mobile goals.

[matthew_martin]

What are things that have stayed constant through ALL past games?
Drivebases. DRONE GAME CONFIRMED.
But seriously, that consistency thing might be something worth looking into.

[brandon.cottrell]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but most, if not all, of the clips have to do with how scoring took place in that year.

1997 and 1999 weren't

[BenBraun3090]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but most, if not all, of the clips have to do with how scoring took place in that year.

All of them were about scoring.

Sorry, my mistake. all but a couple

[Christopher149]

Maybe it's not change, but Chang'e, China's lunar exploration program and the name of the moon goddess. Lunacy coming back? </cringe>

[phantomace]

So this whole game has to with change. The people in robotics usually are nerdy kids. We are going to change them so they can have swagger like me. #Diversty
#swag #CantBeFlyLikeMe

[magnets]

All of them were about scoring.

1995 is a robot lifting a ball, 1997 is a robot driving, 1999 is two robots driving, 2002 is a robot driving, 2009 has no scoring, and 2011 has no scoring.

[beefbobjones]

If the recycling bins are game pieces I officially call dibs on making Junk Bot :)

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081120135605/lego/fi/images/f/f4/Junkbot.png

[RegaCaska]

I would like to point out that lunacy's caption states, "Primary field surface isn't carpet for first time since 1992."

Both "Primary" and "first time since 1992" read out to me.

maybe two different field surfaces.

They better not be recycling the material they used for the regolith in lunacy.

[Christopher149]

If the recycling bins are game pieces I officially call dibs on making Junk Bot :)

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081120135605/lego/fi/images/f/f4/Junkbot.png

I so miss that game. Hey Lego! Put him back.

[zinthorne]

I would like to point out that lunacy's caption states, "Primary field surface isn't carpet for first time since 1992."

Both "Primary" and "first time since 1992" read out to me.

maybe two different field surfaces.

They better not be recycling the material they used for the regolith in lunacy.

I was just going to point that out. Why use that wording? None of the other captions say FIRST TIME or SINCE 1992. May I point out that the part about the carpet field is in section 2.2.1 of the 2014 manual. He was on the second page, and then he seems to put back a page...

[TimTheGreat]

The pattern is the sizes of the robots and the alliances.

Should we expect bigger alliances and/or robots?

[dodar]

I would like to point out that lunacy's caption states, "Primary field surface isn't carpet for first time since 1992."

Both "Primary" and "first time since 1992" read out to me.

maybe two different field surfaces.

They better not be recycling the material they used for the regolith in lunacy.

Primary is used because in 2006 they had a "secondary" field surface of metal for the platforms used for the endgame.

[Jarren Harkema]

If the recycling bins are game pieces I officially call dibs on making Junk Bot :)

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081120135605/lego/fi/images/f/f4/Junkbot.png

MY CHILDHOOD!!!

[April_robo]

Champs is getting bigger if they go to 600 teams you can't have 6 divisions so something has to give. Also MSC is doubling the amount of teams. Both of these events take place in the same timeframe as before but with many more teams.

[PopeRyanI]

I think smaller alliances but three (triangle)

[Oblarg]

I will bet with very good odds that the size/number of alliances is not changing.

[tcallan]

Lets all remember after last years game reveal how everyone thought the game was unfinished. Teams halfway expected the GDC to add something midway through the season, especially since the truss was so over-designed for something we weren't allowed to touch. What if something caused the GDC to use that game prematurely and now this year they are going to add to it and "finish" it, therefore recycling the game. I mean frank did recycle the *2014* manual...

Mini bots on the truss anyone:D

[mman1506]

I was just going to point that out. Why use that wording? None of the other captions say FIRST TIME or SINCE 1992. May I point out that the part about the carpet field is in section 2.2.1 of the 2014 manual. He was on the second page, and then he seems to put back a page...

Technically a number of games have had secondary field surfaces that were not carpet (bridges 2012, ramps 2006 .ETC)

[Jacob Bendicksen]

Almost every bit of the footage showed something happening at the highest height that each year shown reached for. It seems pretty straightforward on that front: we will be going high this year, probably with an elevator. Taller maximum starting configuration? High goal at 15'?

I suspect that they are serious that there will be unprecedented changes to the robots and game play this year. We won't be cruising through build season, I think.

The height thing is an interesting observation, and I think one that we should pay attention to. Could this be related to the oddly long and thin item in the Kit of Parts?

[AdamStockton]

Primary is used because in 2005 they had a "secondary" field surface of metal for the platforms used for the endgame.
The 2009 field surface also had a 1ft perimeter of carpet. This could also be why the word primary was used, since there were technically 2 field surfaces that year.

[Wayne TenBrink]

First (and only) Rule of Game Hints: They are useless for figuring out the game.

Purpose of Game Hints: Create some excitement about the new game (the theme of which cannot be determined from the clue). This hint accomplishes that task.

My guesses on the game clue: It isn't about the specific game. Something about the robot rules or tournament format will change:

1) The controller is new this year. (Old news. Moot point for a clue)
2) Match length will change.
3) New floor (something that lasts longer than carpet in the 6 CIM age)
4) No more 6 CIM drive trains.
5) No more 6 week build deadline - no "bag day"
6) OK to "recycle" fabricated components. Re-use old drive trains.
7) Moderately different field size. They are modular and it would be easy to change.
8) Four robot alliances on a wider field.
9) The DJ's will not be allowed to play "Cotton Eyed Joe", "YMCA", or "The Chicken Dance"

[dodar]

First (and only) Rule of Game Hints: They are useless for figuring out the game.

Purpose of Game Hints: Create some excitement about the new game (the theme of which cannot be determined from the clue). This hint accomplishes that task.

My guesses on the game clue: It isn't about the specific game. Something about the robot rules or tournament format will change:

1) The controller is new this year. (Old news. Moot point for a clue)
2) Match length will change.
3) New floor (something that lasts longer than carpet in the 6 CIM age)
4) No more 6 CIM drive trains.
5) No more 6 week build deadline - no "bag day"
6) OK to "recycle" fabricated components. Re-use old drive trains.
7) Moderately different field size. They are modular and it would be easy to change.
8) Four robot alliances on a wider field.
9) The DJ's will not be allowed to play "Cotton Eyed Joe", "YMCA", or "The Chicken Dance"

9b)In lieu of these song restrictions, only Darude-Sandstorm is to be played.

[Oblarg]

9) The DJ's will not be allowed to play "Cotton Eyed Joe", "YMCA", or "The Chicken Dance"

There would be a mutiny.

[icecube45]

9b)In lieu of these song restrictions, only Darude-Sandstorm is to be played.

I nominate walk the dinosaur as well

[JB987]

First (and only) Rule of Game Hints: They are useless for figuring out the game.

Purpose of Game Hints: Create some excitement about the new game (the theme of which cannot be determined from the clue). This hint accomplishes that task.

My guesses on the game clue: It isn't about the specific game. Something about the robot rules or tournament format will change:

1) The controller is new this year. (Old news. Moot point for a clue)
2) Match length will change.
3) New floor (something that lasts longer than carpet in the 6 CIM age)
4) No more 6 CIM drive trains.
5) No more 6 week build deadline - no "bag day"
6) OK to "recycle" fabricated components. Re-use old drive trains.
7) Moderately different field size. They are modular and it would be easy to change.
8) Four robot alliances on a wider field.
9) The DJ's will not be allowed to play "Cotton Eyed Joe", "YMCA", or "The Chicken Dance"

With so many events taking place in smaller venues (high school gyms) it would be hard to make field wider.

[mdituri]

change ball
http://www.theodmgroup.com/2010/11/01/magic-ball-gift-with-purchase/

[Wyatt Jordan]

Ok so I think the Hocky game holds some merit, its a big sport that FRC has overlooked, I mean we've had soccer and basketball, baseball is kind of overlooked because it's really just throwing a ball and Aim High was kind of that game. Also if you google "most popular sports" you get this:

"Overview[edit] The most popular team sports in the United States are American football, basketball, baseball/softball, soccer, and ice hockey."

So we're only missing hockey also a shout out to TalHolm who added up all the differences between the years with subtitles and got 19, the most retired NHL number. And I also believe we will see the Lunacy surface again if it is a hockey game.

Also for the 2001 game Diabolical Dynamics the subtitle was "Robots race against the clock" you're telling me none of the challenges before that had a time limit? How did they end? Can someone check this for me, did you have to score a certain amount to end the game?

[pandamonium]

I am 99% positive the first part of the video was literally recycled. They played that exact video at championships!

Why would they do that?
A. To further emphasize Recycle
B. To fill time the length of the video 1 min is important

Thoughts?

[dellagd]

We all know FIRST wasn't very happy with the amount of paper airplanes on the field at eninstied last year, and they said they were going to do something about it. To make it fun for everyone, the new game literally WILL BE recycling. The crowd throws paper airplanes onto the field and the robots have to pick them up as fast as possible and put them into recycling bins.

Alright well one game hint down start the timer for next year :D

[XenObliv]

The phrase
"Change is Coming."
Could easily refer to the name of the game or maybe a change in the way we play the games. Possibly a change in the alliances or how we compete to get points.
Your thought?

[HelloRobot]

This might be a stretch... but he was standing on the game field, so maybe human players can get be in the field at some point in the game? I know a lot of fouls were called last year because of human players reaching in. So it's just a thought.

Anyway, I think maybe it's got something to do with 3D printing. Several teams got environmentally-friendly 3D printers from Ekocycle, right? And a lot of the discussion has been focused around triangles, yes? Maybe the game pieces will require a specialized "grabbing" or "loading" mechanism that might not be as widely-available, so we have to design it ourselves. It gives the CAD crew a chance to shine, like how auton is kind of the programmers' claim to fame.

I feel like they wouldn't do anything too complex and outrageously different, like change the field design.

Oh,

9) The DJ's will not be allowed to play "Cotton Eyed Joe", "YMCA", or "The Chicken Dance"
(*Jams out to Cupid Shuffle, Sandstorm, and La Macarena)

[Duffy509]

I went through the video and didn't see any interactions between human players and the bots. Could they be getting rid of human players as a result of some of the essays and posts about the penalties that were given last year?

[Oblarg]

This might be a stretch... but he was standing on the game field, so maybe human players can get be in the field at some point in the game? I know a lot of fouls were called last year because of human players reaching in. So it's just a thought.

Due to safety concerns, I can pretty much assure you this will never happen.

[maxwellt]

Can anyone list all the years that they made changes and what they are? that might help if there is a pattern.

I watched the video and here is what I got

1992: First game
1993: Bigger Robots and they go Wireless
1996: Robot's weight increase
1999: Alliances Begin
2001: Robots race against the Clock
2003: Autonomous introduced
2005: 3v3 introduced
2009: Field Surface isn't carpet for the first time since 1992
2010: field back to carpet
2013: Frame perimeter changes (it was an elongated stop sign)
2014: Had side human players to put game pieces back in to play and each alliance could only have one game piece at a time
2015: "Change is Coming" and the 2014 manual is thrown into the Recycling bin

The video at certain points as what was added to the game

[Nemo]

The changes listed included three size/weight constraints (93,96,13), and four related to competition match structure (99,01,03,05).

If the hint is meant to showcase the evolution of robot constraints and match structure, maybe those aspects of FRC will take another significant evolutionary step this year.

Messing around with the match timing structure is definitely something they could do, such the autonomous endgame idea. In fact, they could do an autonomous end game without adding any additional scoring objectives - just figure out a way for the robot to continue playing for the last n seconds.

While 4vs4 seems like an appropriate change, I can't think of a good way to modify the 3v3 alliance structure when the fields have 3 alliance stations on each side. All of the ideas I can brainstorm are problematic. Maybe they use one or both human player stations as a driver's station. One of the robots on a 4 team alliance could be fully autonomous. 4v4 seems unlikely to me, but it would be cool if they have a way to do it.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a decreased weight limit. It has gotten easier to stay below 120 lbs, and our frame perimeter decreased. Smaller robots would be safer to lift and would perhaps be slightly less able to damage each other in collisions (unless everyone just gears faster to keep a constant KE=1/2mv^2). I think the rough play from last year could have prompted robot rule changes aimed at reducing robot carnage.

Honestly, the hint should have just said this:
1992-2014: no footballs used as game piece
2015: footballs used as game piece

[JB987]

Google search of "Change is Coming" leads to Youtube video of song with those lyrics and 2 things that stand out..."world is crumbling down....and hold on", so maybe we knock things down like Stack Attack and have another hanging style end game (using last years "recycled" truss)???

[Anstrilator]

The changes listed included three size/weight constraints (93,96,13), and four related to competition match structure (99,01,03,05).

If the hint is meant to showcase the evolution of robot constraints and match structure, maybe those aspects of FRC will take another significant evolutionary step this year.

Messing around with the match timing structure is definitely something they could do, such the autonomous endgame idea. In fact, they could do an autonomous end game without adding any additional scoring objectives - just figure out a way for the robot to continue playing for the last n seconds.

While 4vs4 seems like an appropriate change, I can't think of a good way to modify the 3v3 alliance structure when the fields have 3 alliance stations on each side. All of the ideas I can brainstorm are problematic. Maybe they use one or both human player stations as a driver's station. One of the robots on a 4 team alliance could be fully autonomous. 4v4 seems unlikely to me, but it would be cool if they have a way to do it.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a decreased weight limit. It has gotten easier to stay below 120 lbs, and our frame perimeter decreased. Smaller robots would be safer to lift and would perhaps be slightly less able to damage each other in collisions (unless everyone just gears faster to keep a constant KE=1/2mv^2). I think the rough play from last year could have prompted robot rule changes aimed at reducing robot carnage.

Honestly, the hint should have just said this:
1992-2014: no footballs used as game piece
2015: footballs used as game piece

I can definitely see the footballs thing

[Jacob Bendicksen]

Honestly, the hint should have just said this:
1992-2014: no footballs used as game piece
2015: footballs used as game piece

We should keep in mind the other hint - the KOP hint. Whatever we come up with needs to reconcile with the absurdly long and skinny thing, and I'm not quite sure how football would do that.

[dodar]

We should keep in mind the other hint - the KOP hint. Whatever we come up with needs to reconcile with the absurdly long and skinny thing, and I'm not quite sure how football would do that.

3x3x60 = football goal posts

[mman1506]

We should keep in mind the other hint - the KOP hint. Whatever we come up with needs to reconcile with the absurdly long and skinny thing, and I'm not quite sure how football would do that.
Parts for a Football goal post :D

[Jacob Bendicksen]

3x3x60 = football goal posts

Fair enough, but I'd think that goal posts would be possible to make on your own, without FIRST sending you special stuff.

(Not trying to shoot anyone down, just trying to make sure that all the facts are considered.)

[Nemo]

We should keep in mind the other hint - the KOP hint. Whatever we come up with needs to reconcile with the absurdly long and skinny thing, and I'm not quite sure how football would do that.

The long package is just weird. Could just be pool noodles because volunteers are sick of teams showing up without bumpers, or it could be a roll of the new hyper-durable/low density unobtanium field surface.

[EricH]

Due to safety concerns, I can pretty much assure you this will never happen.
WRONG! In 2003, the HPs were on the field, every single match.

However, the robots were disabled while the humans were on the field.

Also for the 2001 game Diabolical Dynamics the subtitle was "Robots race against the clock" you're telling me none of the challenges before that had a time limit? How did they end? Can someone check this for me, did you have to score a certain amount to end the game?
You're reading it wrong, but I can't blame you because you weren't there (at least, I'm pretty sure you weren't). In all games before and since, there was a time limit to how long the game went, and you competed against your opponents to score the most points. In 2001, there were NO opponents except the clock. 4v0. Also, one of the least-liked FRC games of all time.

[Christopher149]

Also for the 2001 game Diabolical Dynamics the subtitle was "Robots race against the clock" you're telling me none of the challenges before that had a time limit? How did they end? Can someone check this for me, did you have to score a certain amount to end the game?

In 2001, the faster you finished the match, the more points you got. I think this is what it means.

Due to safety concerns, I can pretty much assure you this will never happen.

In 2003 (Stack Attack), human players walked onto the field for 10-seconds pre-match to set up stacks.

Edit: very ironically ninja'd just above.

[tStano]

I am 99% positive the first part of the video was literally recycled. They played that exact video at championships!

Why would they do that?
A. To further emphasize Recycle
B. To fill time the length of the video 1 min is important

Thoughts?


I think the 1 min is important. I think the match length will be drastically changed. Maybe 1 min auto, maybe 1 minute match altogether. Although, match length changes all the time, just not very drastically...



Another unrelated thought. the game hints, in my expierience, correct me if I'm wrong usually get at the game that will be played, and not so much like the intricacies behind it(robot size, robot part restrictions, season length, game length, etc)...

[Short Stuff]

A big change that I can think of is either moving the autonomous period to the end of the match, or they will add an autonomous period at the end of the match in addition to the period at the beginning.

[tindleroot]

Ok so I think the Hocky game holds some merit, its a big sport that FRC has overlooked, I mean we've had soccer and basketball, baseball is kind of overlooked because it's really just throwing a ball and Aim High was kind of that game.

...

Also for the 2001 game Diabolical Dynamics the subtitle was "Robots race against the clock" you're telling me none of the challenges before that had a time limit? How did they end? Can someone check this for me, did you have to score a certain amount to end the game?

In 2001 only 1 "alliance" played at a time. The 4 robots had to work together to complete certain tasks (balancing goals on bridge, etc.), and when they were complete the match would end automatically. Teams would get point bonuses based on the time left on the clock. This is different than other years since teams WERE racing against the clock to get points.

As for hockey, 2009 had "ice" surface, and the idea of controlling a puck was used in 1999 Double Trouble. So FRC has actually had hockey games before.

[Saool]

In 2009 the regolith was white and was pretty reflective. In the end of the hint you can see the reflection of the floor and its clearly not white.(This is assuming he was standing on the playing field).

[Boe]

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/57401467.jpg

[maxwellt]

Does the rail look higher than usual?

It did seem that way remember how high the walls were for 2012 but they were not that high back then in the video the walls are just below his hips

[MichelB]

Just gonna point out that Obama's slogan was Change...maybe it has something to do with Obama, or the government. The government has three parts so maybe three alliances?

[Nemo]

I think the 1 min is important. I think the match length will be drastically changed. Maybe 1 min auto, maybe 1 minute match altogether. Although, match length changes all the time, just not very drastically...

Another unrelated thought. the game hints, in my expierience, correct me if I'm wrong usually get at the game that will be played, and not so much like the intricacies behind it(robot size, robot part restrictions, season length, game length, etc)...

I think shortening matches would be going in the wrong direction because of the setup time. The shorter you make matches, the lower percentage of time you get to see any robots on the field.

2014 was nice in that regard. Fewer moving pieces led to short field reset times, so the extra 20 seconds of match time didn't make the events longer.

[Abhishek R]

To further support the autonomous endgame theory, the recycling symbol could be a sign of that, i.e moving the phases from one part to the other in rotation.

[Ginger Power]

1.75 1992
1.63 1993
2.09 1994
2.10 1995
2.18 1996
2.32 1997
2.19 1998
2.10 1999
2.43 2000
2.24 2001
2.30 2002
3.02 2003
2.20 2004
2.51 2005
2.59 2006
2.58 2007
2.41 2008
2.44 2009
2.67 2010
2.53 2011
3.01 2012
2.97 2013
2.89 2014

Here is a list of the the time in seconds each clip was shown during the video. Each was hand timed at least twice and averages were taken to ensure accuracy. I really find it interesting that 2003 as well as the 3 most recent games were distinctively longer than all the rest. Each was very near 3 seconds... do with that what you wish:D

What I think: I believe it could be a mashup of different aspects from each of the bolded games. Coopertition/Assisting/bins from 2003 etc. Hence recycling.

[dodar]

It did seem that way remember how high the walls were for 2012 but they were not that high back then in the video the walls are just below his hips

It does look higher than normal.

You can also see a field marker reflected onto the wall behind the recycling bin. It looks as if the field may be split into 3 sections again.

[Brennan4256]

(real opinion) First loves the number 3. A three part logo etc. So i am also on this triangle bandwagon. whether that means "delta" in the name or triangle games pieces. The change may not be huge. I mean some of the changes they list are minor.

(false opinion) water molecule is the shape of a triangle-- thus a water game

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Something that stood out to me was the recycling bin and the fact that safe zones were not mentioned as a game change. Have safe zones always been in the games because it seems like it is something that became popular in mostly the recent games except for 2014? If I had to go on a long shot, I would guess a version of stack attack but with safe zones so that stacking is actually the goal of the game.

[theawesome1730]

Did anyone else catch that the video is in 4:3 aspect ratio? FIRST has posted 16:9 videos for a while now. 4:3 could be a throwback to older games?

[Mike Marandola]

Did anyone else catch that the video is in 4:3 aspect ratio? FIRST has posted 16:9 videos for a while now. 4:3 could be a throwback to older games?

They probably just didn't want black bars for 3/4s of the clips.

[Chief Hedgehog]

I would like to see a triangular field with each side playing host to both a Red and Blue driver's station. That would mix things up a bit.

[Duffy509]

Did anyone else catch that the video is in 4:3 aspect ratio? FIRST has posted 16:9 videos for a while now. 4:3 could be a throwback to older games?

43 seconds is 2012, rebound rumble in which there where 4 nets and a 3pt line.
4 times 3=12

[arizonafoxx]

In 97 and 99 was the field and game piece really the same. In the video it looks like the exact same game. The camera shot is even almost the same. Field size appears to be the same. Can someone verify that played those years.

[Kwolfe]

Did anyone else catch that the video is in 4:3 aspect ratio? FIRST has posted 16:9 videos for a while now. 4:3 could be a throwback to older games?

This could be hinting at 4 alliances of 3 teams.

[MichelB]

Or with each side having an alliance (three alliances) or having one not per side with three bots totally (doing away with alliances).

[sarahbellum123]

in 2005, they introduced 3v3. with the way the program is growing, i would not be at all surprised if they change it so alliances now have 4 teams each...4v4??? yikes.

[Short Stuff]

You can also see a field marker reflected onto the wall behind the recycling bin. It looks as if the field may be split into 3 sections again.

It depends on what part of the field the video was filmed on. It does seem that parts of old games will be recycled. The triangle comments that have been made throughout may be referring back to the tetrahedrons that will be used again, along with possibly the lack of end game from last year

[Landonh12]

in 2005, they introduced 3v3. with the way the program is growing, i would not be at all surprised if they change it so alliances now have 4 teams each...4v4??? yikes.

I could definitely see this happening. Worlds is going to have more teams this year, quoting Frank "540 to 600". Add another team on each winning alliance and you get more teams in St. Louis.

[XenObliv]

Maybe auto mode will be different
Longer?

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

I could definitely see this happening. Worlds is going to have more teams this year, quoting Frank "540 to 600". Add another team on each winning alliance and you get more teams in St. Louis.

I don't think that's quite right. If I understand, the issue is space and adding more teams per alliance wouldn't really allow for more teams at St. Louis.

[RegaCaska]

In 97 and 99 was the field and game piece really the same. In the video it looks like the exact same game. The camera shot is even almost the same. Field size appears to be the same. Can someone verify that played those years.

Looking at the video you are right.

Also, looking at old videos on youtube for those years, it looks like 1999 is wrong based off of this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0CDop_IwW8

[Mr V]

I don't think that's quite right. If I understand, the issue is space and adding more teams per alliance wouldn't really allow for more teams at St. Louis.

It has already been determined that there will be between 540 and 600 teams at CMP. Making 4 team alliances would mean that most Regionals would send 7 teams. So that is a way to get more teams to earn a spot at CMP w/o dipping into the wait list too significantly.

On the other hand with districts a 4 team alliance will not work to have a full 4 round elimination bracket in a number of cases.

[Duffy509]

Looking at the video you are right.

Also, looking at old videos on youtube for those years, it looks like 1999 is wrong based off of this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0CDop_IwW8

Could this just be a mistake that they used the 97 game for 99 clip, or is this supposed to direct us back two years aerial assist?

[EricH]

In 97 and 99 was the field and game piece really the same. In the video it looks like the exact same game. The camera shot is even almost the same. Field size appears to be the same. Can someone verify that played those years.

No, they most emphatically were NOT. Not in any way, shape, or form.

1997 was played in similar manner to 2007 and 2011: place tubes on scoring structure. Only... it was 1v1v1 on a hexagonal field.

1999, better known as Double Trouble, was 2v2 on a square field. Take your "floppies" (think a flat bean-bag chair full of styrofoam peanuts with some velcro), raise 'em over 8' from the floor and hold 'em there at the end of match. Move large flat "puck" around the field and park on it for more points (2x for puck position, not sure about parking on it).

[Poseidon5817]

I was just going to point that out. Why use that wording? None of the other captions say FIRST TIME or SINCE 1992. May I point out that the part about the carpet field is in section 2.2.1 of the 2014 manual. He was on the second page, and then he seems to put back a page...

And on that note, has anyone noticed the white floor at the very end of the video?

in 2005, they introduced 3v3. with the way the program is growing, i would not be at all surprised if they change it so alliances now have 4 teams each...4v4??? yikes.

That could happen, what with alliances having 4 teams and all at nationals.

[tindleroot]

Looking at the video you are right.

Also, looking at old videos on youtube for those years, it looks like 1999 is wrong based off of this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0CDop_IwW8

1999 is DEFINITELY wrong now you mention it. That year was floppies (Bean bag discs), not toruses. Why would FIRST use the wrong footage? Just a mistake, or deliberate?

[Abhishek R]

And on that note, has anyone noticed the white floor at the very end of the video?

Don't do this to us FIRST...please...

[Ginger Power]

1999 is DEFINITELY wrong now you mention it. That year was floppies (Bean bag discs), not toruses. Why would FIRST use the wrong footage? Just a mistake, or deliberate?

I couldn't see them doing that on accident. I think you may be onto something.

[Hallry]

I couldn't see them doing that on accident.

I can. I guess I need new glasses.

[avanboekel]

And on that note, has anyone noticed the white floor at the very end of the video?

No, can you get a screen shot of this? I didn't think they ever showed the floor at the end.

[Rypsnort]

Where do you think the 3x3x60 box comes into this. Sorry if this is a repeat, but I don't want read through 11 pages to see if this repeat. If it is then I am sorry and can you tell me what page to look on for info regarding this topic.

[Austin2046]

The game pieces are sheets of paper and the goals are recycling bins.

[Poseidon5817]

No, can you get a screen shot of this? I didn't think they ever showed the floor at the end.

In order to be able to see the white floor, you need to go to the youtube link at the beginning of the thread, full screen it, and run it at 0.25x speed. You can't see it if the scrolling bar with the current time is open. It is between the recycling bin and him at the very end.

[arizonafoxx]

So does that mean the floppies will return as the game piece? How can FIRST just mess up and not show 1999.

I don't think they will recycle just one thing and Franks mention of "slowing down" still has me thinking Regolith.

SO

stacking floppies in a movable goal on Regolith sure seems like stacking pizza topping while moving really slow.

[Abhishek R]

I guess someone got fed up with the paper airplanes at Championships and decided to do something about it.

[runneals]

Has anyone mentioned anything about the build season? Maybe the rules around it will change? Maybe split in half?

I think Auton at the end game will be highly likely

[Lil' Lavery]

2002 Stack Attack + 2009 Lunacy = 2015 Game Confirmed

Stack Attack was 2003.

[avanboekel]

In order to be able to see the white floor, you need to go to the youtube link at the beginning of the thread, full screen it, and run it at 0.25x speed. You can't see it if the scrolling bar with the current time is open. It is between the recycling bin and him at the very end.

I still don't see it...

[Schnabel]

It did seem that way remember how high the walls were for 2012 but they were not that high back then in the video the walls are just below his hips

They seem normal, also I do not see a white floor at the end.

I think having auto mode at the end of a match would be awesome! How many times when teams are setting up their robots for auto mode do humans actually aim the robots at a stationary target. Seriously I don't think half of teams would score in auto-mode if they couldn't go position their robot perfectly before hand. What if the match is exactly opposite of literally every other auto-enabled year.
2 minutes teleop followed by 10-20 seconds of an auto-mode end game.

[Anthony Galea]

In order to be able to see the white floor, you need to go to the youtube link at the beginning of the thread, full screen it, and run it at 0.25x speed. You can't see it if the scrolling bar with the current time is open. It is between the recycling bin and him at the very end.

That is the bar on the bottom of the field. If you look at the field wall, you can see a field tape reflection, and a normal colored carpet.

[arizonafoxx]

2 minutes teleop followed by 10-20 seconds of an auto-mode end game.

That would be cool. You would need to spend 10 sec or so of teleop to position the robot in the correct spot before Auto. I could see many teams needing to utilize the Estop if the robot was not in the correct position though. Would want dead reckoning to be executed when the robot is facing the side field scoring station.

[Jack_O]

Going back to the whole '97 '99 thing. During the supposed 1999 clip it says something about alliances being introduced. Maybe by leaving out the 1999 footage they are hinting that alliances will be disbanded. Not sure what that would mean for eliminations and such but it just hit me. This sounded much better in when I started typing...

[Schnabel]

That would be cool. You would need to spend 10 sec or so of teleop to position the robot in the correct spot before Auto. I could see many teams needing to utilize the Estop if the robot was not in the correct position though. Would want dead reckoning to be executed when the robot is facing the side field scoring station.

Can you imagine the pain of the veteran teams who position their robot perfectly just to have a kitbot pull in front of them last second using momentum.

It's an evil thought yet (http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/9c/9c8b5133593820e28ca22a1d0f9f2c4a7d27e2e96684787b0d f393d4e2a38c20.jpg)

[GeeTwo]

I think most of the replies are overthinking the situation. "Change is Coming" is also reflected in the history - each clip showed some change taking place, and this year will be no exception.
Not trying to be a pisher, but given that the venues are already selected, we can pretty much count on the following assumptions being preserved:
Game played on a surface which can be laid over a concrete floor -- not a "water game" (or a "space game" or an "air game", for that matter) -- my personal favorite concept of launching rockets to harvest comets to deliver water to a moon colony is right out!
Field size not too much larger (certainly no larger than a basketball court)

We know up front that the control system will change (roboRio vs cRio, new PDB, pneumatic board, and so forth), but the game hint says that ain't all:
Rules we have come to accept as canon but which we can probably figure that at least one will change:
robot size (changed from 120" to 112" frame perimeter just 2 years ago, di'n't it?)
2 alliances of 3 teams
weight limit
bumper rules
carpet as a surface
And finally, the rule I hope they really are keeping: "if it ain't forbidden, it's allowed"

The bottom line is that SOMETHING changes every year, and this year is no different. This isn't a clue as much as a reminder (or perhaps a warning)!

My personal take on the real clues so far (large lightweight and long units in the KOP) is some sort of game in which the opposing alliance(s) robots (or trailers towed by those robots) are targets of a peculiar attack involving 60" long arms. 'Taint worth much, but that's my take so far.'

GeeTwo

[Short Stuff]

I do not think that is white floor in the video. I think it is the aluminum base of the field perimeter

[arizonafoxx]

Can you imagine the pain of the veteran teams who position their robot perfectly just to have a kitbot pull in front of them last second using momentum.

It's an evil thought yet (http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/9c/9c8b5133593820e28ca22a1d0f9f2c4a7d27e2e96684787b0d f393d4e2a38c20.jpg)

Its not the kitbots fault. The veteran team should have anticipated the positioning and had a sensor that would detect the bot and enable to crab drive to move 3ft to the left and then execute Auto. Its never the kit bots fault. LOL

[who716]

after reading through every single post so far i have concluded on four possible scenarios:

1. game using recycled game elements from previous game different one

2. recycling theme similar to jr. fll and fll

3. possible white floor idk if i see it or not can't tell

4. the mix-up with the 1997-1999 game


these seem to me t be the most valid scenarios so far

[Wayne TenBrink]

Four team alliances create some interesting possibilities:
1) More "teamwork" based games like Aerial Assist. Four teams could help insulate alliances against a weak or broken member.
2) With more of the robots on the field at any time, match times could be longer. The total number of matches could be reduced, while giving each team the same number of matches.
3) Elimination alliances could be 5 teams (one as the backup bot). That would allow all 40 teams at a district qualifier to be in the eliminations. (I'm not necessarily in favor of that).
4) A four-team alliance would require the field to be about 6 feet wider (one more driver station panel at each end). Doesn't work for two strips of standard width carpet rolls, but maybe the floor won't be carpet...
5) They probably had to modify the field control system to work with the new RoboRio. Convenient time to add a couple more channels for larger alliances.

[Bryce Paputa]

2. recycling theme similar to jr. fll and fll

That was a joke, the 2014/2015 (jr) FLL game is based around education.

[gavmac928]

So, my input so far:
1. The field perimeter will be basically the same (ie. Not triangular), but who's to say there won't be some sort of triangular zone within the field?
2. There is no way that they accidentally RECYCLED footage from 1997 for the 1999 section of the video.
3. The recycling has to be important. As my previous point implied, maybe something from the 1997 game will be reused this year?
4. That long box in the kit of parts, as many people have said on that thread, has to be something we can't easily replicate and is critical to the game, or its donated raw materials.
5. I really, really hope they're not recycling and modifying the 2014 game, because if not it means theres a huge change coming, which is what I was hoping for this year.

[tindleroot]

3) Elimination alliances could be 5 teams (one as the backup bot). That would allow all 40 teams at a district qualifier to be in the eliminations. (I'm not necessarily in favor of that).


Indeed, that's how it worked in 2001. 5 teams were crowned champs that year I believe.

[Poseidon5817]

Here's a screenshot of the white floor, possibly a rail though... But looking at 2014 there was no rail there on the guard wall...

https://onedrive.live.com/embed?cid=9CB04414BB0948A3&resid=9CB04414BB0948A3%21776&authkey=AGdsoa3LlkCDF5s

[mateoland]

The recycle bin was a red herring. It simply meant that Aerial Assist is trashed for now but will be reused again someday in the future.

In apocalyptic terms, "Change is coming" could possibly be translated to "The End Is Nigh". (The recent Mayan "end of days" was supposed to be a "change" rather than doomsday. "Nigh" is translated to "near" or "close".)

End game confirmed.

[Mr V]

3) Elimination alliances could be 5 teams (one as the backup bot). That would allow all 40 teams at a district qualifier to be in the eliminations. (I'm not necessarily in favor of that).

But there are no district events in PNW MAR and IN with 40 teams, only half of the NE events have 40 teams and there are even a couple of the FiM events that don't have 40 teams.

The capacity of the PNW events was set at 32 teams, and there are 2 that haven't filled up.

[crafty]

That was a joke, the 2014/2015 (jr) FLL game is based around education.

But the 2015/2016 FLL/JrFLL game themes are based on recycling.

[tindleroot]

But there are no district events in PNW MAR and IN with 40 teams, only half of the NE events have 40 teams and there are even a couple of the FiM events that don't have 40 teams.

The capacity of the PNW events was set at 32 teams, and there are 2 that haven't filled up.

That's true - FIRST could make only 4 finals alliances too.

[Mr V]

Here's a screenshot of the white floor, possibly a rail though... But looking at 2014 there was no rail there on the guard wall...

https://onedrive.live.com/embed?cid=9CB04414BB0948A3&resid=9CB04414BB0948A3%21776&authkey=AGdsoa3LlkCDF5s

Since this field perimeter was introduced there has always been a piece of angle at the bottom of the side rails.

[Schnabel]

...even a couple of the FiM events that don't have 40 teams....

The lottery hasn't happened yet. All FIM districts will have 40 teams.

[Abhishek R]

One of the programmers on our team found that in the administrative manual, in section 4.5.1, it talks about how the number of practice matches must be divisible by 6, basically confirming 6 robots on the field.

He also found this: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1416230&postcount=67

[randantor]

Looks like there will still be 6 teams per match at least - from the 2015 administrative manual:

Practice Matches are randomly assigned and each team is assigned an equal number of Practice Matches unless the number of teams multiplied by number of Practice Matches is not divisible by six.

[April]

This might be a stretch... but he was standing on the game field, so maybe human players can get be in the field at some point in the game? I know a lot of fouls were called last year because of human players reaching in. So it's just a thought.



hmmm...They did use the same music as the FLL promo video, "Get in the Game"

[Poseidon5817]

The recycle bin was a red herring. It simply meant that Aerial Assist is trashed for now but will be reused again someday in the future.

In apocalyptic terms, "Change is coming" could possibly be translated to "The End Is Nigh". (The recent Mayan "end of days" was supposed to be a "change" rather than doomsday. "Nigh" is translated to "near" or "close".)


Or this could be the last year of FRC :(

[EricH]

Here's a screenshot of the white floor, possibly a rail though... But looking at 2014 there was no rail there on the guard wall...

https://onedrive.live.com/embed?cid=9CB04414BB0948A3&resid=9CB04414BB0948A3%21776&authkey=AGdsoa3LlkCDF5s

That's NOT floor. That's the inside of the side rail, where the side panels rest against the rail.


Folks, Frank (and the recycling bin) are on the near side of a field, near midfield or the "near" border. The bin is raised up a bit, I'll assume on a small table, or is a tall bin. The field rail in view is not the near side rail; it is the FAR side rail, inside of the field view. Note the gate ramp visible in the bottom right corner of the linked picture: It's down, obscuring the rest of the bottom rail from view. (You can see the "rest" that's used when it's up quite clearly--the "rest" is sticking up.) See the attachment for the general arrangement: orange is camera, blue is the bin, black dot is Frank, and the black box is the field border.

Now, I'm going to guess that the field section shown (a small one) is not representative of the 2015 FRC game. I'm guessing that they used an empty field--all the stuff that was on or in that field can change (and does, year-to-year).

[Mrcope9]

One of the programmers on our team found that in the administrative manual, in section 4.5.1, it talks about how the number of practice matches must be divisible by 6, basically confirming 6 robots on the field.

He also found this: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1416230&postcount=67

Good. There would be no way to handle more than 6 robots. I just hope it doesn't go to 3 alliances at a time. They would have to re-write the rules for eliminations. The change can't be to something other than 3 on 3

[Jim Wilks]

The phrase
"Change is Coming."
Could easily refer to the name of the game

This makes the most sense to me.

[Mr.BeepBoop]

I looked through the thread a little but I was wondering if anyone else noticed at 0:12 how they used the wrong clip for '99 "Double Trouble". The one shown in its place is from '97 "Troid Terror".

Also, am I the only one who finds it ironic how he is recycling something right after he says change is coming?

[caboosev11]

What is the song in the video?

[tStano]

The song from the video is a royalty-free track called "Social Disgrace" from a stock music website called Wavtracks music:

http://www.wavtracks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=41&products_id=251

Thats the song in the video. It doesn't seem particularly interesting. Except its from a website called wav tracks. wav = wave = water, tracks = racing, its a water racing game. Clearly.

[arizonafoxx]

I looked through the thread a little but I was wondering if anyone else noticed at 0:12 how they used the wrong clip for '99 "Double Trouble". The one shown in its place is from '97 "Troid Terror".

Also, am I the only one who finds it ironic how he is recycling something right after he says change is coming?

Yes it has been noted. Personally I think this is one of the biggest clues. Or a huge mistake by someone at FIRST.

Maybe we just need to forget everything that happened in 99. For those of you not born yet should be easy.

[owenli10]

Yes it has been noted. Personally I think this is one of the biggest clues. .

In 1999 (Double Trouble), alliances scored points by positioning "pucks" on the playing field. :rolleyes:

Hockey game anyone? ;) :D

[Poseidon5817]

I think you guys are overthinking it. It's obviously a game where you score points by dropping copies of the 2014 game manual into recycling bins.

But seriously, except for the 1997-1999 thing, I think all the hint is saying is that there will be some rule changes for 2015.

[JB987]

For those who think auto will move to the end of matches try to remember how many robots are unable to operate under autonomous conditions. Given the goal of the GDC to create games with consistent/increasing action and excitement for spectators I think it's highly unlikely they would move autonomous to the end so we can watch some of the robots just sit idle as the clock winds down.

[Henrique Schmit]

I wouldn't be surprised to see that super expensive and rather unused truss be recycled for 2015 somehow...

[Jarren Harkema]

People seem to be using the word "recycle" incorrectly, or interpreting it to mean what it may not.

When I "recycle" a plastic bottle, it goes through a process by which it can be turned into pretty much anything else, it may be a similar bottle, but it could also become a chair.

When I "reuse" a plastic bottle, I can usually taste what was left of the coke that I had in it the first time. Ew.

Frank said "change is coming", as well as dumping last years game in the recycling bin. These two things must be in agreement with each other.

[Samwaldo]

I would be money that this hint had very little** to do with the actual game itself. I think the hint has to do with the format of how we play. The 3 vs 3 will remain, but elimination format might be changed, or maybe time duration, or maybe another period in addition to auton. and telop.

Note: You could tell in the background that he was on the field, and that IF it was the 2015 field, the sides looked identical to all other years (even looked like an andymark one).

**MAYBE their was a game hint in it, concerning what the game was about. If their was a game hint, i think the bin had something to do with it

[AK Koaster]

Does anyone who was in for Lunacy remember how the field material samples were packaged? If they were rolled up, it's feasible that that could be our mysterious 3x3x60 package.

I also think the swapping of the 97-99 footage is an important clue, but I'm not sure what to make of it.

[EricH]

Does anyone who was in for Lunacy remember how the field material samples were packaged? If they were rolled up, it's feasible that that could be our mysterious 3x3x60 package.

No way you COULD roll them that tight. The field stuff was tough to roll into anything smaller than the OD of the carpet rolls. No way, no how on it being Glasliner FRP.

As I recall, the field samples were tiles, not rolls. Most teams going for practice areas got tiles.

[Mr V]

I wouldn't be surprised to see that super expensive and rather unused truss be recycled for 2015 somehow...

The trusses were rented and they have long since been returned to the rental company. We took the ones used in the PNW district to CMP to give them back to FIRST so they could return them. We asked if we could keep them for use in the off-season events and they said no.

[Willem Bohrer]

[QUOTE=Anthony4004;1416073]3-3-2-2-4-4?
Also, Frank was on the 2nd page which (as someone pointed out) is the page about assist and cycling. What if this points back to this cycle? Which would be now

3-3-2-2-4-4-2

If you take these numbers as sets of two (3.3,2.2,4.4,2) and look at those sections in the 2014 game manual you will be at these sections:

Revision History
The ARENA
Fabrication Schedule
The Arena

Maybe the "change is coming" to these sections?

[Mr V]

I would be money that this hint had very little** to do with the actual game itself. I think the hint has to do with the format of how we play. The 3 vs 3 will remain, but elimination format might be changed, or maybe time duration, or maybe another period in addition to auton. and telop.

Note: You could tell in the background that he was on the field, and that IF it was the 2015 field, the sides looked identical to all other years (even looked like an andymark one).

**MAYBE their was a game hint in it, concerning what the game was about. If their was a game hint, i think the bin had something to do with it

Definitely not an AM field as you can see zip ties holding the polycarb to the round top rails. On the AM field those panels are permanently attached to the square top rails with rivets.

[Michelle692]

No way you COULD roll them that tight. The field stuff was tough to roll into anything smaller than the OD of the carpet rolls. No way, no how on it being Glasliner FRP.

As I recall, the field samples were tiles, not rolls. Most teams going for practice areas got tiles.

Yes, field sample was a tile. You could buy it in 4'x8' sheets from hardware stores, and they did not roll.

[JB987]

I wouldn't be surprised to see that super expensive and rather unused truss be recycled for 2015 somehow...

See my post #128:D
They can always be rented out again by FIRST and support posts raised to elevate it even more.

[marcusbernstein]

He's not wearing safety goggles on what looks to be the field. I guess the change will be that we don't have to. Also, that rail looks suspiciously high which should mean big game pieces.

[thatnameistaken]

Well. This hint is... interesting, perhaps because its focus is on how the game relates to FRC as a whole instead of the theme of the game itself (presumably). But as for recycling the 2014 game - an idea that's been bounced around for a while now - it's certainly plausible at this point.

Reasons why:
-Frank literally recycled the 2014 game
-Not changing the core game is, ironically, a major change to FRC in and of itself
-Bit of a stretch, but the Double Trouble footage "mistake" could be viewed as repeating a game.

Now, to counter the 2 biggest counterarguments I've seen:

1. Veterans have too big of an advantage
Why? Rookie teams can easily view last year's competition for strategy, and no one said the game piece had to be the same, or that the goals had to be the same size/location. I'm fairly confident changing the exercise balls to some sort of rigid, 5 foot long object would throw a wrench in the majority of last year's mechanisms ;)
(Oh, you could also add an endgame. Would require major redesigns.)

2. FIRST would never do that/It's an unprecedented change
Precisely. Change is coming.

Think about it. Not only could this explain the mystery KOP box, but that would change a lot of how the basic robot-to-robot interaction is accomplished. Intake devices would have to be much more precise, which requires more precise passing by alliance members; a game piece coming 3 inches high off the ground doesn't even get over your bumpers (probably). No rolling it into their intakes, if it even can roll. Or into the low goals, for that matter, unless they're specifically redesigned for this purpose; they're both too wide to fit longways and over twice as high as the piece itself. Catching could also be easier/more valuable, depending on the specifics of the game piece and/or rules.

As a driver, I, for one, would be down for it. Aerial Assist was a VERY fun, strategic game to play.

Of course, this will probably sound crazy to me after I get some sleep. Oh well.

[Loxmyth]

I don't see anyone pointing this out. Frank has mentioned the same thing in the past. See: http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-NASA-Grants-and-Something-New-for-2015

So, this hint is not new, just reworded from "something new" to "Change is coming"

FRC teams may experience a big enough change that he feels it should be said twice . . . or the video is more cryptic ;)

[blazeflipper]

Of course, this will probably sound crazy to me after I get some sleep. Oh well.[/SIZE]

What you just described is a brand new game. New goals, new game piece, new match setup. That is already what they do and I personally like it that way. Plus, you can't use last years robot or any assembly built before kick off. Unless that rule changes too but I don't think that would happen.

[thatnameistaken]

What you just described is a brand new game. New goals, new game piece, new match setup. That is already what they do and I personally like it that way. Plus, you can't use last years robot or any assembly built before kick off. Unless that rule changes too but I don't think that would happen.

I suppose. In my mind, though, Aerial Assist is a game which is played with a single game piece that's passed around between the alliance before being scored at the opposite end of the field; the rest of the rules are just details.

[221Sarahborg]

FIRST approved this field by andymark for the 2015 game, and it's still our favorite 27'x54'.
http://www.andymark.com/Field-p/am-2800.htm

Do you have a source to FIRST approving this field?

[waialua359]

See my post #128:D
They can always be rented out again by FIRST and support posts raised to elevate it even more.
I totally agree.
Maybe I shouldnt say this. Rumors from last season said that the truss was part of ............;)

[*Rachelle*]

If we see any big parts of Aerial Assist "recycled", wouldn't it be in 2-3 years being how long it takes to fully develop a game?

Maybe this is why they said change is coming, specifically showing the 2014 manual. Perhaps we won't see (major) assisting or no end game this year because by the time they knew if it was a successful venture, the 2015 game was already in major development.

Are there really coincidences in the game hints, I mean how could they accidentally put the wrong video for 1999? We have been shooting projectiles for three years in a row, if we go to a fourth most FRC students won't have experienced anything but shooting. 1997 and 1999 both included inner tube type objects- so we might be seeing a very heavily modified version of the past inner tube games.

[thatnameistaken]

Do you have a source to FIRST approving this field?

It's right there in the link.
From http://www.andymark.com/Field-p/am-2800.htm :
FIRST® has determined that this Field Perimeter has the ‘fit and function’ necessary for use in the 2015 FRC.

[asid61]

16 pages in five hours... on three words.
Huh.

[Ginger Power]

If we look at both the 1997 game and the 1999 game, the objectives were fairly similar. Raise the game piece to a great height. In 97 big points were received for placing the toroid (an inner tube) on the top peg. In 99 a lot of points were received for raising "floppies", another tube-like game piece, over 8 feet in the air. Going off of that, and the thought that FIRST wouldn't send out a game hint with an error in it, I would guess that we are lifting a tube-like object high off the ground.

[WiggumshireIV]

The paper clip represents those who hold everything together: refs.

Paper recycling plants remove paper clips.

Here's the catch - not all paper clips are always removed.

Frank is recycling the 2014 game (and the very visible paper clip) completely - no changes at all, we get to play aerial assist again (prolly).

But this time around, there will be half as many referees (or no refs) on the field for efficiency.

Cant wayt fo 2015 the yere of the sheep

[Marc S.]

Emphasis on robot size and weight increases, alliances including more robots, and a different field surface and shape.

Also hinting that the majority of the rules are different from last year by throwing away the game manual (ok yes he threw it in the recycling but that is what he would have done anyways if the recycling part had nothing to do with the hint).

Subtle hint that 1999 wasn't worth showing. 1999 was quite a bit different than any other game in first, the game pieces were floppy and a lot harder to pick up than any other game piece that I can think of.

The side rails of the field that Frank was on was almost waist high, much higher than previous years.

Give me until the 3rd of next year and I'll have figured it out by then.

[Michael Hill]

Emphasis on robot size and weight increases, alliances including more robots, and a different field surface and shape.


FIRST has already tinkered and changed those things. I think something will change that hasn't been changed before; possibly drastically. If it IS one of those things, I can imagine it being something like completely getting rid of the robot weight requirement. However, I'm not sure how likely it is. Also, let's not forget that several well-established rules could drastically change.

[GKrotkov]

Many game hints are actually just name reveals. 2011 revealed "Logomotion" and last year revealed "Assists", and I think 2013 did a similar thing.

Then the game name will have something to do with change? I wonder how the showing of previous years could fit in with that.

[dibblec]

Could the reference to "Change" be as simple as sorting game pieces based on size or color like sorting change? Still could leave open for shooting or picking up and placing. If the 1997 and 1999 video repeat was not a mistake, it was based on placing game pieces. Add into this the new linear actuators that iR3 has come out with along with the linear actuator that was in First Choice, could support a pick and sort type of game. I also find it interesting FTC's game is "Cascade Effect" which if you have a change sorter, they have a "cascade effect" when sorting. Has FIRST ever had similar games between FRC and FTC in the same year?

[Wyatt Jordan]

I do not believe the GDC will re-use the 2014 game because:
1. It would be SO boring, even with a major change, and if they are going to make a major change they might as well call it a new game
2. Huge advantage for veterans (again unless there was a major change but again that would just be called a new challenge
3. They already returned the trusses to whatever company they rented them from, someone said this earlier in the thread I forget where

If we follow the pattern of the past 3 years' challenges:
2012: shooting round balls, easy to pick up/manipulate/shoot
2013: shooting frisbees, harder to pick up/manipulate, still easy to shoot
2014: shooting massive ball with tons of drag, much more difficult
2015: shooting some object that is oddly shaped, hard to pick up and shoot, a football, maybe a football challenge, my team (3941) has been discussing this idea for about a month now

However there is something to be said for having 4 years of shooting in a row. This does mean people like me (in their senior year) will have had a shooting challenge every year in FRC, Do you think the GDC would think it was bad to have all shooting challenges and try to mix it up? Or keep what was working in the past regardless of the lack of variety?

Now looking at the hint. I believe the footage mix-up for the 1997 and 1999 challenges was not a mistake, definitely something there. Also I believe there might be a hint in the scores of the matches, however would FIRST have enough footage to search through to find specific numbers for the beginning games? Probably not, however they definitely have enough footage from the past few years to get the scores they want, so at some point the scores in the challenges may start to have more meaning. I'm suggesting that point is 1999 because that is where the mix-up is.

Of course we are assuming someone spent some time making this hint if the there is a message in the game scores. Maybe I'm over-analyzing but if you remember the 2013 game hint that definitely took several complex steps to solve, just a thought, let me know what you guys think

[Tinmint1]

The field shape and size won't be changing. Andy mark know has a deal with first to reproduce the field so teams would be spending thousands of dollars for a field they can't even use. First wouldn't do that to anyone

[Duffy509]

Now looking at the hint. I believe the footage mix-up for the 1997 and 1999 challenges was not a mistake, definitely something there. Also I believe there might be a hint in the scores of the matches, however would FIRST have enough footage to search through to find specific numbers for the beginning games? Probably not, however they definitely have enough footage from the past few years to get the scores they want, so at some point the scores in the challenges may start to have more meaning. I'm suggesting that point is 1999 because that is where the mix up is.

I M almost certain that FIRST has all of the major matches from all the years recorded. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they had every match recorded.

[g_sawchuk]

The statement about the field size not changing is correct. If they reused the game, I would hate it unless they modified it well enough. Guess what though? They showed all the years of change. Change happens every year. What if the change is that there is no change? That would be a change. However, I feel that change could refer to the 6 division at Einstein. I think different alliance sizes would be cool, but making it work with the same size field seems unrealistic.

[K-Dawg157]

Agreed

[Riverdance]

Someone might have said this already... but after reading a lot of this thread, my teammates and I took another look at the game hint video and although Frank is totally standing on a 2015 field, they don't show the field surface...

lends to the idea that it might not be carpet this year. :ahh:

[g_sawchuk]

Someone might have said this already... but after reading a lot of this thread, my teammates and I took another look at the game hint video and although Frank is totally standing on a 2015 field, they don't show the field surface...

lends to the idea that it might not be carpet this year. :ahh:
After Lunacy, I'm really hoping that they're smart enough to not have that kind of thing again. However, what would be interesting is patches of different surfaces throughout the field, or the field divided into sectors, each with a different surface. That would make driving different and open surface based strategies.

[dradel]

The more things change the more they stay the same !!

[RScottW]

Can anyone list all the years that they made changes and what they are? that might help if there is a pattern.

1992 - Maize Craze - Inaugural Year
1993 - Rug Rage - Increase in size and go wireless
1994 - Tower of Power
1995 - Ramp ‘n Roll
1996 - Hexagon Havoc- Weight Increases
1997 - Toroid Terror
1998 - Ladder Logic
1999 - Double Trouble - Alliances begin
2000 - Co-opertition First
2001 - Diabolical Dynamics - Race against Clock
2002 - Zone Zeal
2003 - Stack Attack - Autonomous Mode
2004 - Raising the Bar
2005 - Triple Play - 3 v 3 introduced
2006 - Aim High
2007 - Rack and Roll
2008 - Overdrive
2009 - Lunacy - surface isn't carpet for first time since ‘92
2010 - Breakaway
2011 - Logomotion
2012 - Rebound Rumble
2013 - Ultimate Ascent - frame perimeter changed
2014 - Aerial Assist
2015 - ???????????

[g_sawchuk]

1992 - Maize Craze - Inaugural Year
1993 - Rug Rage - Increase in size and go wireless
1994 - Tower of Power
1995 - Ramp ‘n Roll
1996 - Hexagon Havoc- Weight Increases
1997 - Toroid Terror
1998 - Ladder Logic
1999 - Double Trouble - Alliances begin
2000 - Co-opertition First
2001 - Diabolical Dynamics - Race against Clock
2002 - Zone Zeal
2003 - Stack Attack - Autonomous Mode
2004 - Raising the Bar
2005 - Triple Play - 3 v 3 introduced
2006 - Aim High
2007 - Rack and Roll
2008 - Overdrive
2009 - Lunacy - surface isn't carpet for first time since ‘92
2010 - Breakaway
2011 - Logomotion
2012 - Rebound Rumble
2013 - Ultimate Ascent - frame perimeter changed
2014 - Aerial Assist
2015 - ???????????
As I stated in the interview last night, there's also a pattern rotating from perfectly spherical objects to non spherical objects or spherical objects with holes in them. By objects I mean game pieces. This has been going on since about 2000.

[Duffy509]

On the frc blog Frank made a comment titled 97 footage for 99 game that read whoops. I guess they did just make a mistake. Here is the link for anyone interested. http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-this-is-a-game-hint