The 2015 game is... Recycle Rush!

[Briansmithtown]

Leave a comment below on your thoughts.

[alexander.h]

And now the moment of truth we've all been waiting for (drumroll please) ...

Presenting the 2015 FRC Game : Recycle Rush
Any thoughts, tips, ideas or suggestions regarding this year's game?

And for those who didn't catch the encrypted game manual key, here it is : R3C3CL3RU$H2015

If you want the decrypted game manual (so that you don't have to enter the password each time), take a look at the attachment!

Bragging rights go out to me and Harman341 for our small "collaboration" on predicting the game this morning : http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1419564&postcount=689 (I apologize if I missed others with the same speculation)

Good luck & happy building!

[Scoyle]

I may be mistaken but the code seems to be all capital letters

[alexander.h]

I may be mistaken but the code seems to be all capital letters

Whoops, you're right. Thanks!

[minch1396]

This isn't at all what I expected...but I'm excited! The first thing I'm thinking about is how to pick up totes and noodles with the same arm...

[smclean1969]

Interesting game....very difficult to control the tub, barrel and pool noodle. Robots stay on their side of the field. Very different from what we've seen in the past.

[Domenic Rodriguez]

Interesting that it seems to be more of a 3v0 + 3v0 instead of a 3v3. The alliances are not necessarily competing against each other, but the clock.

[TankerRed101]

What surprised me was the extra points for cooperating with the other alliance. I can see this being a very welcome change and may make this game one of the best.

[Mike Marandola]

I am kinda sad there is no robot to robot interaction.

[TankerRed101]

i can see like a suction for the totes but maybe a third arm in the middle for the noodles that is directly connected to the main arms to put the noodles in the bins. Maybe you can put them in before the bin is even stacked and move that to the totes.

[alexander.h]

ALERT ! ALERT ! Bragging rights here !

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1419564&postcount=689

[Jim Giacchi]

No bumpers... cheers of JOY!

Then moments later...

No robot to robot contact... thanks for pumping my dreams up and them ripping my heart out and stepping on it FIRST...

[QuackAttack177]

Having no defense will make the game interesting.

[216Robochick288]

Right now my current thought as a mentor is... RIP my ankles. Bumpers not required?

[TankerRed101]

well what i have not seen is your robot is not allowed to block the noodles from being thrown on your side by the other alliance.

[Sam Westgard]

Disney Made a Game With the Same Name
http://games.disney.com/recycle-rush

[Kevin Sevcik]

You all should read the new "Elims" layout. Quarters and Semis are point based, not best of 3. You can officially score me as currently not a fan. This game is the closest to the horrible 4v0 game we've had in forever, and I'm worried "Elims" are going to get boring fast because of it.

[brandon.cottrell]

The can is wider than the tote

[QuackAttack177]

well what i have not seen is your robot is not allowed to block the noodles from being thrown on your side by the other alliance.

Where does it say this in the rules?

[TankerRed101]

Let me clarify I have not seen that if that happens it is not allowed.

[silas13579]

Does anyone else think this game is going to be boring? Watching it is not going to be fun at all. I for one heartily dislike this game.

[Ether]

Where does it say this in the rules?

He said he has not seen such a rule.

[Jim Giacchi]

You all should read the new "Elims" layout. Quarters and Semis are point based, not best of 3. You can officially score me as currently not a fan. This game is the closest to the horrible 4v0 game we've had in forever, and I'm worried "Elims" are going to get boring fast because of it.

Seconded... I had the same exact thought. This isn't a competition it is an exhibition with points.

[SciBorg Dave]

Does anyone else think this game is going to be boring? Watching it is not going to be fun at all. I for one heartily dislike this game.


I say give this game a chance. In the past some games took awhile before they became exciting.

[brrian27]

Does anyone else think this game is going to be boring? Watching it is not going to be fun at all. I for one heartily dislike this game.

I agree. It will be a good challenge for building, designing, and programming, but as a spectator it will be pretty boring. Just the fact that winning doesn't matter till the finals will make it less interesting.

Even as a member of the drive team, this game would be less exciting without defense and robot interaction.

[David8696]

The problem I have is that FIRST had been making a big deal of moving toward exciting, spectator-friendly "sport"-like games, and then they come out with possibly the least exciting (at least for a non-participant) game in the history of FIRST. I'm... disappointed to say the least.

[James1902]

Seconded... I had the same exact thought. This isn't a competition it is an exhibition with points.

This is my biggest issue with the game based on my first impression. We always say that FIRST is more sport than science fair, but (based on my first impressions and knowledge of the old 4-0 game) this game doesn't support that point at all. In fact it kind of negates it in my eyes.

That's not to say that the design challenge isn't interesting or that the robots will be any less cool, but in my experience a basketball game is way more fun to watch than two people shooting free throws on opposite sides of the court.

[T-Dawg]

RIP WCD :(

[alexander.h]

a basketball game is way more fun to watch than two people shooting free throws on opposite sides of the court.

Well said.

[EricH]

Folks, first impressions are not what a game is judged on in the long run. Give it time.

[JayNico]

IT'S
TOO
COMPLICATED
guess it's time to repeatedly read the rules for the next 24 hours
again

[James1902]

Folks, first impressions are not what a game is judged on in the long run. Give it time.

Fair. We'll find out in 6 weeks. Till then i'm looking forward to seeing everyone's solutions.

[kingc95]

Let me clarify I have not seen that if that happens it is not allowed.

There is no reason to build a defense bot as such. The maximum damage it could accomplish is stopping a possible 40 pts out of 318

[ATannahill]

I'm not sure if blocking is really a viable strategy.

All that matters in ranking is your score, not your score relative to the other alliance. This means you should try to score the litter, but you do not mind the other alliance getting points for unprocessed litter.

[lakecat]

It seems as if FRC has been pushing more for cooperation among alliance members. This competition seems to be the logical conclusion to that considering that each alliance is isolated to themselves and there is no interaction between aliances beside launching litter at them.

[kingc95]

Seconded... I had the same exact thought. This isn't a competition it is an exhibition with points.


The new elimnation system is based off of averages so in the quarter finals you need to do well on both matches or you will not advance.

The only good thing about the new elimination style is all teams in the playoffs have an equal shot and seeding doesnt matter. So the number 8 alliance can have a better chance of advancing in a game against a #1 seed.

Seeing as wins dont matter your average scores do any seeded team can move on.

[George A.]

Wow.

The elimination bracket completely throws the past out the window.

Now you change what alliance you play each match in the quarter finals and semi finals....but the top 4 and top 2 alliances advance regardless if they are the "winner".

Qeueing should be fun....

[ATannahill]

Wow.

The elimination bracket completely throws the past out the window.

Now you change what alliance you play each match in the quarter finals and semi finals....but the top 4 and top 2 alliances advance regardless if they are the "winner".

Qeueing should be fun....
Not to mention a cool down between most semi final match.

[rjmah]

I see this as a "material handling" design challenge. Not having individual game winners makes it less interesting for spectators.

[JosephC]

I'm not sure if blocking is really a viable strategy.

All that matters in ranking is your score, not your score relative to the other alliance. This means you should try to score the litter, but you do not mind the other alliance getting points for unprocessed litter.

I disagree, while it is true that your own score is the most important, you still want the opposition to score a few points as possible. The 40 points you block could be the difference between them having more QA than you when eliminations comes around.

While its true that blocking itself seems like a waste of weight, You still have the last 20 seconds of the match to pick up the trash on the ground and deposit it into the landfill.

[MasterEric]

There is no reason to build a defense bot as such. The maximum damage it could accomplish is stopping a possible 40 pts out of 318

The 40 points you block could be the difference between them having more QA than you when eliminations comes around.


You two do not appear to have a good grasp of the Coopertition points.
Cooperation points go to BOTH teams; they're mainly used to boost your average match score.

[MasterEric]

Disney Made a Game With the Same Name
http://games.disney.com/recycle-rush

Wow. That milk carton looks like he is screaming from the endless and painful agony that is existence.

[JosephC]

You two do not appear to have a good grasp of the Coopertition points.
Cooperation points go to BOTH teams; they're mainly used to boost your average match score.

We are talking about blocking pool noodles thrown by human players, not coop points.

[Briansmithtown]

The thing I see with this game is that it is very boring for spectators.

[KevinG]

I'm... underwhelmed. It's not going to be terribly exciting for the spectators to watch, which was one of my favorite aspects of last year's game. From a design perspective it should be interesting, but the lack of actual competition (save going for the bins and totes in the center) leaves something to be desired.

That said I'm excited to see what my students come up with. I think the design challenge should prove fun for them.

[ArthurA]

I think people are being unfairly critical. I think having a robot being able to pick up crates and stack them autonomously is way cooler than just shooting a ball or firing a frisbee.

[MasterEric]

I think people are being unfairly critical. I think having a robot being able to pick up crates and stack them autonomously is way cooler than just shooting a ball or firing a frisbee.

But not as fun to watch.

I don't disagree, I can't wait to work on autonomous stacking that requires cooperation with other teams, but it won't be as fun to watch as the robots zip around the field to shoot discs.

[excel2474]

That's not to say that the design challenge isn't interesting or that the robots will be any less cool, but in my experience a basketball game is way more fun to watch than two people shooting free throws on opposite sides of the court.


Then you must not have liked 2012 where all we did was essentially shot free throws on the other side of the court. The alliance that shot more free throws won.

[The Doctor]

Many of the people on /r/frc (http://www.reddit.com/r/FRC) are very unhappy with the lack of competition and the boring tasks. (including myself)

[Morgeno]

Then you must not have liked 2012 where all we did was essentially shot free throws on the other side of the court. The alliance that shot more free throws won.

At least in 2012 you could interact with the other people. You could scoot over to their side and try to keep them from shooting, steal their balls and shoot them to your side, generally interfere. Now there is literally NO CHANCE for robot to robot contact. Sure there are coopetition points, but that's nothing radically exciting

[excel2474]

At least in 2012 you could interact with the other people. You could scoot over to their side and try to keep them from shooting, steal their balls and shoot them to your side, generally interfere. Now there is literally NO CHANCE for robot to robot contact. Sure there are coopetition points, but that's nothing radically exciting

Yes, that is true. I completely understand people's disappointment in the lack of opponent interaction, but other than that, the competition is the same as previous years. The only thing that is really different is that you will be less likely to be carried by your alliance, and I think that's a good thing.

[Bmarshall645]

Anyone got a link to the official game logo?

[catholicrobot]

Does anyone else think this game is going to be boring? Watching it is not going to be fun at all. I for one heartily dislike this game.

yeah, i was really sad to not be driving this season since i had graduated but now im kinda glad because all of the defense and robot to robot interaction is what made driving so fun

[xman206]

This "game" is very interesting...but is it really a game?

[blackbrandt]

Anyone got a link to the official game logo?

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTZ-nQSiJChAwe7gVLXB8eKJV6feFM2QjdFEYB4aRI4c_i9IRl8UNl MzaQ

[JosephC]

I've generally been pretty happy to show the FRC games to my non-robotics friends. I even convinced about 15 of them to come to competitions the past 2 years. Several of them were so pumped in fact, that they watched the live stream today just to see what the new game was! To my dismay, all but one of the people who watched, said they would not be coming to competitions this year.

Robot on Robot interactions are a HUGE part in the success of spreading the message of FIRST. People watch Nascar for the crashes, they watch Hockey for the fights, they watch football to watch people get taken out. Its how these sports draw people in, and once you're in, you're stuck. Over the years, you develop favorite teams, and your wanting to watch just for the action, turns into wanting to watch for the gameplay.

FIRST is just starting the the past few years to get huge. Team growth has skyrocketed, viewership has skyrocketed, FRC is being broadcasted on live TV, even ESPN! Now is the time when people want action, we need to suck them in. And keep them.

This game achieves none of that, it takes the hardcore robot hitting other robot action away, and turns it into a science show. There's a reason that tackle football is far more popular than flag football.

And that, is why I don't like this game.

[Harveythellama]

Hey guys just wanted to point something out, correct me if I'm wrong but some of the totes more towards the very center of the field are actually upside down.

[cmrnpizzo14]

Hey guys just wanted to point something out, correct me if I'm wrong but some of the totes more towards the very center of the field are actually upside down.

That is correct. Looking at the field drawings in the manual I believe that there is a layer of totes on either side of the center step that are placed upside down.

[RoboMo786]

My initial impression

http://blog.nextworth.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Wall-E-waste.png

Jokes aside, I'm excited for this year, and I think it's going to give a lot of teams a great challenge and opportunity. However, I don't think it's going to be very exciting for the audience to watch considering that there is no robot to robot interaction between alliances. I have other doubts, time will tell. It's still a new season, new game, and new challenge, so that is something to be happy about.

[RoboMo786]

Anyone got a link to the official game logo?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t31.0-8/s720x720/10626321_863976846958465_2462064498228406996_o.jpg

Found this one on the FIRST Facebook page.

[Yipyapper]

I miss endgames.

[alexander.h]

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTZ-nQSiJChAwe7gVLXB8eKJV6feFM2QjdFEYB4aRI4c_i9IRl8UNl MzaQ

If this is seriously the logo this year ... disappointing. Where's the red and blue from the previous years? Oh right, "change is coming".

[alexander.h]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t31.0-8/s720x720/10626321_863976846958465_2462064498228406996_o.jpg

Found this one on the FIRST Facebook page.

However, this logo, compared to the other one, catches my eye a bit more.

[alexander.h]

So, which logo is official?

http://raptusgames.com/wp-content/uploads/RR-192270_160x160.png

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t31.0-8/s720x720/10626321_863976846958465_2462064498228406996_o.jpg

[alexander.h]

Confirmed, it's the this one : https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t31.0-8/s720x720/10626321_863976846958465_2462064498228406996_o.jpg

Pretty slick if you ask me

[piersklein]

Quick Clarification for anyone who can help: What is the distance between the edge of the scoring platform closest to the landfill and the boundary of the landfill. I am looking at the drawing provided by FIRST and unable to figure it out. I am so far unimpressed by the quality of said field (see figure A on page 6 of the document) drawings so any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[stryker0603]

The first thing our team noticed is that this game is essentially a scaled up FLL game. The only interaction with the other alliance is a small part in the middle.

Also, has anyone tried throwing the pool noodles the 40+ feet required to get the 4 points per noodle? From watching people try today, I feel that if a human player can score more than 1 or 2 a competition, they deserve the points. Since you can't throw them during the last 20 seconds of the macth, you can them push them into the landfill.

[Morgeno]

The first thing our team noticed is that this game is essentially a scaled up FLL game. The only interaction with the other alliance is a small part in the middle.

Also, has anyone tried throwing the pool noodles the 40+ feet required to get the 4 points per noodle? From watching people try today, I feel that if a human player can score more than 1 or 2 a competition, they deserve the points. Since you can't throw them during the last 20 seconds of the macth, you can them push them into the landfill.

You CAN throw them, but then again people might just push them.

[AutoBotAM]

EDIT: never mind, solved this.

[Donut]

My initial impression of this game is they solved the problem of defense in Stack Attack (2003) by playing it 2001 style.

Neither of those games are held in high regard as examples of good FRC game design. Hopefully this one fairs better.

[czielinski]

Guys, I have an idea of the logo if you don't like the old one. Our team is having a lot of fun with this:

[Briansmithtown]

Guys, I have an idea of the logo if you don't like the old one. Our team is having a lot of fun with this:

I think you RUSHed that design (baa da tiss)

[alopex_rex]

When I was talking with the other seniors on my team about this year, we all agreed that we would like our last game to be something different, from the last three throw-things-into-things games. And we certainly got what we wanted. Recycle Rush is really a fundamentally different sort of game from the ones we've grown used to.

The lack of robot interaction frees up some different design possibilities. For example: while I've been on it, my team has always designed a tank drive, with little consideration of other possibilities, because we feel the traction and power of tank drive outweighs the maneuverability of mecanum, holonomic, etc. We want to try other drive trains, but practicality always leads us to choose tank drive early on. But this year, now that we don't have to worry about pushing matches with other robots, we're strongly considering using another kind of drive train. Will I miss robot-robot interactions? Yes. But going without them opens up new opportunities, and of course lets us simplify the rulebook. (We were watching the kickoff video with a lot of lag, and we skipped forward to the live feed just as Woodie Flowers was putting a bumper in the recycling bin. There were many "whaaaaaaaaaaat"s.)

The new ranking system changes how you think about strategy. No longer is taking a point away from the other alliance equivalent to giving one to yourself. And the win-loss system is kind of artificial, strongly reflecting alliance composition. With a points system, teams' qualifying points will more accurately reflect their ability. But at the same time, focusing on accumulating points may be a more positive experience for struggling teams than accumulating losses. Also, we have the return of coopertition in games, which I've been waiting for ever since 2012. (The new ranking creates some weird dynamics though. You're not really competing with the other alliance in any meaningful way--sure you're competing with them in the rankings, but the same is true for your alliance partners. There's no motivation to hurt, or even not help, the "opposing" alliance.)

It's kind of frustrating to see people already complaining about how they don't like the game and it will be bad for such and such reason. We literally just learned what the game was today. None of us has seen it played. How about we be excited for designing robots now, and once we've all seen a competition or two we can talk about the spectator experience of Recycle Rush.

If FIRST decided that every year from now on would be split-field with no interaction, and with ranking that ignored win-loss, I wouldn't be happy. But I don't want to do a sports-y pieces-into-targets game every year either. Kudos to FIRST for shaking things up. All in all Recycle Rush looks like a fun challenge, and I can barely wait for tomorrow's meeting.

[RockerRobot]

When I first saw the video for the game I was like, wow that's kinda simple. And then I started reading through the game manual and almost cried, there are so many details to account for. We have thrown several different ideas out but keep coming up with flaws relating to different game pieces. This is going to be a long day….:ahh:

[RockerRobot]

I agree, I think the change will not only be fun and new but keep teams on their toes by maybe pushing them a little out of their comfort zone, and if we are being honest with ourselves this game has more real life applicability than some of the more sporty games of the past. I personally am very excited for this year :)

[QUOTE=alopex_rex;1420148]When I was talking with the other seniors on my team about this year, we all agreed that we would like our last game to be something different, from the last three throw-things-into-things games. And we certainly got what we wanted. Recycle Rush is really a fundamentally different sort of game from the ones we've grown used to………….

[EricH]

This is a very INTERESTING game. There is a lot that isn't apparent, both in strategy and in design, and the non-interaction aspect makes life very interesting.

[aztecprincess98]

My thoughts on Recycle Rush are that you have to build a very versatile and functional robot. You have to be able to carry totes, stack recycling bins, and be able to truck around a skinny pool noodle that is "litter." The interesting element though, is that we really have to cooperate with our alliance members which will be really cool. I can't wait to see competition!!!

[aztecprincess98]

I don't think that competition should be about points, it is how well you work with your alliances in and out of the arena, a creative approach to the build and playing the game itself.

[Christopher149]

For those who think this game will be boring: I just spent some time watching some elims and IRI footage from 2003 Stack Attack. I think the lack of robot interaction will make Recycle Rush a more interesting game in that stacks will actually be built instead of simply knocked over. The difference in play is so striking that I think it will be hard to find informative designs from that year.

[Zaque]

Also, has anyone tried throwing the pool noodles the 40+ feet required to get the 4 points per noodle? From watching people try today, I feel that if a human player can score more than 1 or 2 a competition, they deserve the points. Since you can't throw them during the last 20 seconds of the macth, you can them push them into the landfill.

We have two members on our team that are able to throw the noodle at least far enough to get it to the other alliance's auto zone.

[KevinG]

We have two members on our team that are able to throw the noodle at least far enough to get it to the other alliance's auto zone.

Reliably? How many crates will it cover going over the closest scoring pad?

[Ian Chin]

This game will be very difficult for any new teams without any experience.

[Tyler Olds]

For those who think this game will be boring: I just spent some time watching some elims and IRI footage from 2003 Stack Attack. I think the lack of robot interaction will make Recycle Rush a more interesting game in that stacks will actually be built instead of simply knocked over. The difference in play is so striking that I think it will be hard to find informative designs from that year.

I believe this constitutes 90% of why there is a divider and limited interaction between alliances. Defense made 2003 a game of just who can push totes around the best and stay on the pyramid platform.

While in the 15 seasons I have been around I like to say not a whole lot has changed when it comes to the robots, I believe that teams will perform much better with totes than they did in 2003.

My rookie year was 2001 and in my 4 years as a student I could not stand 2001 and 2003. Strangely I do not feel all that bad about this years game and am optimistic that stacking will look pretty cool and a decent amount of teams will be able to interact.

[KineticCougar]

Question about stacking. Can the grey totes be stacked upside down?

[cgmv123]

Question about stacking. Can the grey totes be stacked upside down?

A Gray TOTE is scored if it is fully supported by a SCORING PLATFORM and no portion of the TOTE extends above the top of the BACKSTOP.

Is there a mention of TOTE orientation?

[Harveythellama]

Is there a rule against how many totes a human player can bring to the human player station? I didn't see one but I could be mistaken.

[Bmarshall645]

Question about stacking. Can the grey totes be stacked upside down?

I would put that up on the Q&A when it opens. Some totes already located on the field will be upside down. I am not sure if you can stack them that way though.

[Drakxii]

Interesting game, looks fun to play and the noodle field use will be fun to watch, but... 2 things.

Other then team set, auto mode will only be for elite teams. The point values and work required to score just don't seem worth it for mid level teams.

Bumpers are not "optional" they are actively discouraged. Why should my team be penalized for wanting to protect the team robot for unintentional damage from an ally team?

That being said I believe that mecanum may just see the Einstein fields this year.

[IronicDeadBird]

Man you guys don't like PvE...
Like a lot.
Yeah I understand that it might be boring to watch COMPARED to last year at a glance but I find the the real fun in this robotics is having metal through the arts of necromancy/sorcery/caffeine shape itself into a robot that performs in a competitive environment. If you want to have fun in FRC you can have a ton of it from being a participant instead of being a spectator (nothing against those who come to support) but I figure most of you on here are active participants in the build and not just like cheer leaders. I dunno I could be wrong.
You can compare this game to Aerial Assist but I find that insanely unfair due to the fact that it is not a PvP game it is now PvE. There is a video online of a cat playing Jenga on youtube (that I won't link cause TOS and you all can google) Now I dunno if you have ever just watched someone play Jenga but it is kinda boring until you have difficulty spikes then you have fun based around the tension in it. This game will seem low key to spectators but the feelings that the participants have will differ vastly. Fun doesn't have to be fast paced. This kind of fun is designed to be tense. It is designed to be a crowd watching a a robot attempt to put that recycling bin on the max stack in a hushed tone punctuated the roaring applause that accompanies success or the sting of "ohhhhhhh's" that signal you dun goof'd.
Give it a chance, of fun was determined by fast paced billion piece puzzles wouldn't exist.

[CTbiker105]

I've always thought it was interesting how each season's game causes you to begin using a somewhat uncommon word a lot more frequently than you've ever had to before.

In 2013, I used the words "Frisbee" and "pyramid" more than ever.

In 2014, I think I said "truss" more times in one day than I've ever done so prior.

This year, the somewhat uncommon words "tote," "litter," and "noodle," come to mind.

Completely irrelevant to the game itself, but something I found interesting nonetheless.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Other then team set, auto mode will only be for elite teams. The point values and work required to score just don't seem worth it for mid level teams.If you can program a robot to drive forward for 5 seconds, you can surely program it to drive forward for 5 seconds into a crate. The auto stack and container set will definitely be trickier, though. Especially since the easiest path to the stack is a 1 robot stack and carry, which is going to have to plow through the containers to make it happen.

Personally, I'm guessing Champs is going to see several full set autos, with 2 robots shoving containers and an elite robot shoving/launching a container, then backing up to grab, stack, and carry the 3 crates for the auto stack. Or possibly grabbing the container and carrying it along with the stack.

[James1902]

Then you must not have liked 2012 where all we did was essentially shot free throws on the other side of the court. The alliance that shot more free throws won.

Well, not really.

The alliance that collected basketballs, negotiated the opposing alliance's defense, got to the safe zone (if they shot from the key), had a high completion percentage, and managed to do this multiple times in a match, won.

And even if what you said was true there would still at least be a winner at the end of the match. This year the opposite alliance isn't even really a factor in match considerations (unless you're coopertitioning or collaborating in some other way.)

Anyway these are just my initial impressions. I'm looking forward to seeing the designs and solutions the teams come up with. I just hope that all of the non-FIRSTers who have taken note of the program because of the exciting gameplay recently aren't bored with the gameplay this year.

[Drakxii]

If you can program a robot to drive forward for 5 seconds, you can surely program it to drive forward for 5 seconds into a crate.

I am sure our team will be able to do this but as last year showed asking all teams to move in auto mode is a tall order. While this year we are asking teams move 3 robots in a zone or no points, at least year it was points per robot moved.

Additionally for the 3 totes which are all or none, 1 tote will be easy to push just forward over the carpet. The the other 2 totes required to score will need to be pushed over the plastic covered scoring platform or will need to moved around them. Either of which is a tall order, to get the traction right or the pathing right, for a mid-level team and very unlikely for a low level/rookie team to be able to complete in auto.

Additional with the tote set only worth 6 points, I feel that the time developing and testing code to move a tote around or up a scoring platform could be better spend on new mechanisms or just tele-op practice.

The auto stack and container set will definitely be trickier, though. Especially since the easiest path to the stack is a 1 robot stack and carry, which is going to have to plow through the containers to make it happen.

Personally, I'm guessing Champs is going to see several full set autos, with 2 robots shoving containers and an elite robot shoving/launching a container, then backing up to grab, stack, and carry the 3 crates for the auto stack. Or possibly grabbing the container and carrying it along with the stack.

I will agree auto mode at champs will be fun to watch though.

[jtrv]

Last year, I told my (now) 11 and 7 year old cousins about Robotics. They were super excited to come to a competition, but the local one ended up happening on a week that they were on vacation. I said no big deal, you can come next year!

So they're super excited at Christmas.

And now they get to watch robots stack boxes for 2.5 minutes.

I don't know. If I was 11 I'd find it boring and stupid. I don't think 2016 will bring the best turnout nationally for new kids, but there could have been some improvements, I think. (No defense? :confused: )

I am sure our team will be able to do this but as last year showed asking all teams to move in auto mode is a tall order.

I'm sorry, but it really shouldn't be, its approximately four lines of code.

[Koko Ed]

The actual name of this game should have been the Have and the Have Nots.
Elite teams are gonna look even more elite without any defense (aka high speed ramming til they break) being played on them while teams are now required to actually do something useful and manipulate game pieces to be successful which I don't always recall seeing a high degree of at most competitions until you reach championship level.

[asid61]

The actual name of this game should have been the Have and the Have Nots.
Elite teams are gonna look even more elite without any defense (aka high speed ramming til they break) being played on them while teams are now required to actually do something useful and manipulate game pieces to be successful which I don't always recall seeing a high degree of at most competitions until you reach championship level.

I agree with Have and Have Nots, but high-speed ramming was not the only solution. For example, at the Silicon Valley Regional last year, a swerve team from Hawaii (368 IIRC) effectively locked down 254 for a good portion of times during elims just by blocking.
This was not a game built for rookies, to be sure. Stacking is a major part of the game, and not every team can build a lift so easily.

[fargus111111111]

I am slightly disappointed with the game this year, last year our robot could push others if needed and it was really fun to watch a robot get shoved backward. Also I am worried about teams who are not mechanically inclined and would typically build a robot designed for defense. With that not being an option this year they may, unintentionally get in the way of teams who can stack. I can help someone program a robot from scratch on practice day, but building a manipulator on the limited resources found at a competition would be extremely difficult.:( :confused: With that said, the Challenge, because that is what it is, should be interesting to play and watch.

[JPBalogh]

I'm not sure if this is already clarified. But can we load the pool noodles before we stack the bin on the totes?? Also can a robot bring a bin to the human player to have the human player load it through the wall and then stack it?
Thanks,

[Harveythellama]

Where can you buy containers for this game?

[Nathan Rossi]

Where can you buy containers for this game?

Follow the manual, and you'll find the part number "1788472" or "FG263200GRAY" and for the lid "1788471"

http://www.rubbermaidcommercial.com/rcp/products/detail.jsp?rcpNum=1788472
http://www.rubbermaidcommercial.com/rcp/products/detail.jsp?rcpNum=1788471
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/rubbermaid-brute-fg263200gray-gray-32-gallon-trash-can/690FG2632GY.html

[porterma64]

Did someone notice the bananas on the field drawings?

[orangemoore]

Follow the manual, and you'll find the part number "FG263200GRAY"

I bet they tried but may have found the shipping of those containers to be a problem.

[tindleroot]

I'm not sure if this is already clarified. But can we load the pool noodles before we stack the bin on the totes?? Also can a robot bring a bin to the human player to have the human player load it through the wall and then stack it?
Thanks,

1. The order in which anything happens does not matter, since the points are scored at the end of the match. It will be much easier to score litter on a grounded bin rather than putting it on top of a stacked bin.

2. Yes, the human player can load the litter into the bin that a robot is holding.

[Loncharich]

Why are the game pieces getting so big? Where are we supposed to keep the recycle bins and totes in the pits?

[artdutra04]

I really like this game for a few reasons.

1. No bumpers + elimination of most robot size constraints. We're going to see some really interesting and unique robots this year, the likes of which hasn't been a part of FRC in over a decade. If people thought that most robots in 2014 looked the same, this will be the year of massively different (and potentially just massive) robots.

2. Little direct interaction between the two alliances. For a stacking game, this is a must. Anyone with memories of 2003 remembers what a stacking game without protected stacking areas was like.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4724795/bowling-a-perfect-strike-o.gif

Last year was a very defense heavy game, so it's refreshing to have a very offense heavy game.

This also means that generally most of the "rules of thumb" of FRC can be thrown out the window and you can use a blank slate this build season (or at least re-evaluate every thing). Generally most years, you design and build a drivetrain and chassis, then put the robot on top of that. This year you can design your mechanisms, then stick your drivetrain around it.

3. Relaxation of more robot rules. Unlimited Mini CIMs? Yes!

4. Hugely varied game elements and objectives. Coupled with #1, this will lead to a huge diversity in robot designs, along with specialization of strategies. The lack of defense also means that most teams who build robots that work in their shop should also work on the field; in most other years robots struggle with even the slightest bit of defense.

[cgmv123]

Unlimited Mini CIMs? Yes!

Did VexPRO lobby for that rule? :D

[orangemoore]

Did VexPRO lobby for that rule? :D

I think the community including Vex wanted more mini-cims.:ahh:

[GaryVoshol]

Is there a rule against how many totes a human player can bring to the human player station? I didn't see one but I could be mistaken.

I didn't see any rules limiting the number of game pieces a HP can touch. Nor did I see any rule about two HP's touching the same game piece. But I've just read the rules so far, I haven't studied them.

[Briansmithtown]

The rules seemed kinda rushed this year.

[orangemoore]

The rules seemed kinda rushed this year.

What makes you say that? To me I think they put a lot of time into the rules and making sure they made sense (other than the noodles)

[KevinG]

I think the major source of entertainment for the audience is going to be watching robots get demolished by falling boxes. A solid plastic eight pound box falling from a 5' height is not friendly towards unprotected electronics.

[SoulianPride]

The rules seemed kinda rushed this year.

Is that a pun I see there?

I think the game with be very interesting and I can't say I don't like the idea of removing win/loss records from the competition to even out the field a bit. There are quite a few ways (and that's just the ones discussed among my team) to go about the game and I'll be interested to see what everyone come up with this year.

[ThePremium6]

Well, when they said that change was coming, they weren't kidding. the new rules on scoring are sort of confusing but at least we don't have to worry about an outrageous amount of defense now :)

[nxtmonkeys]

Did someone notice the bananas on the field drawings?

I looked ::rtm:: and didn't see them. Screenshot it so I can see, please.

[Ether]

The rules seemed kinda rushed this year.

Is that good or bad? Or more precisely, what do you mean by "rushed" in this context?

[XadexSquared]

I'm also a senior this year and I completely agree with the not a throwing game idea. It was old for this year;s seniors who have had nothing but throwing things into things games.

[Briansmithtown]

I'm also a senior this year and I completely agree with the not a throwing game idea. It was old for this year;s seniors who have had nothing but throwing things into things games.

I think this video is pretty much going to sum up this years game... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLwXF-eJ0Y8