View Full Version : Feeding litter into can from human player station?
while we were looking at the manual, a lot of people suggested the idea of just picking up the container, taking it to the human player station, feeding a tube in, and just stacking it for the points. we couldn't find any rule against it, but we aren't entirely sure if it would be legal. thoughts?
seanthompson
03-01-2015, 23:51
We also had a similar idea. The manual clearly states that the litter is only scored when placed into or on a scored recycling can, and a recycling can is only scored when solely supported by scored grey totes. This seems to disallow said strategy.
BBray_T1296
03-01-2015, 23:53
We also had a similar idea. The manual clearly states that the litter is only scored when placed into a scored recycling can, and a recycling can is only scored when placed on top of grey totes in the scoring zones. This seems to disallow said strategy.
What if the human put the litter into the recycle bin, held by the robot, then said bin/litter combo was put onto a tote, thus reducing the complexity of the operation
Thad House
03-01-2015, 23:54
Since scored are only counted at the end of the match, that doesnt make sense. I think it counts as scored as long as its in a container at the end of the match.
To the second poster's point:
To the contrary, this idea may be the BEST strategy for two reasons:
1. It's valid to do what the OP suggests as the scores are assessed at the end of the match. So long as the noodle is in the green can and the green can is on top of a grey tote and that grey tote is fully supported by the scoring platform, then the OP's idea is totally valid. The rules dont' say the order of operations, just that the green can needs to be scored. A noodle in a green can not properly scored doesn't count.
2. It will be awfully hard to get the noodle into the recycling container on top of the stack of grey bins. So, why not just put the really light foam into the big green can before putting the can on top of the stack?
What if the human put the litter into the recycle bin, held by the robot, then said bin/litter combo was put onto a tote, thus reducing the complexity of the operation
that was the idea. the totes would already be stacked, we would take the robot and a bin, feed it the litter, and put on the totes.
seanthompson
04-01-2015, 00:04
As I reread the rule 3-4 times, I'm beginning to think that the strategy is legal and does count for points, because points are awarded at the end of teleop. I'm sure it's already in the Q&A though.
As I reread the rule 3-4 times, I'm beginning to think that the strategy is legal and does count for points, because points are awarded at the end of teleop. I'm sure it's already in the Q&A though.
the Q/A isint open till the 7th, so until then its really open to interpretation.
The way I'm interpreting the rules, you don't even need to "score" the green recycling containers for the litter to count as scored. I.E. You can fill up a container, drop it, pick another one up, fill it, drop it etc. (or even simpler, chuck a piece of litter and hope it lands on one of your bins!)
Each LITTER can be scored in one (1) of three (3) ways:
A. in or on a scored RECYCLING CONTAINER,
...
When a scored RECYCLING CONTAINER fully supports a LITTER, that LITTER is considered scored in or on that RECYCLING
CONTAINER, as demonstrated in Figure 3-5 Parts A and B. A maximum of one (1) LITTER will be scored per RECYCLING
CONTAINER.
Note how there is no conditional for the positioning of the green container.
Note how there is no conditional for the positioning of the green container.
Except that it needs to be in/on a SCORED Recycling Container. Means it has to be on a bin on a scoring platform by the end of the match, when scores are counted.
YEs key word is scored got me the first time through the instructions awell
nixiebunny
04-01-2015, 01:33
The placement of the noodle feeding chute is pretty optimal for this method. It occurred to me as well. I suspect that it's expected.
Except that it needs to be in/on a SCORED Recycling Container. Means it has to be on a bin on a scoring platform by the end of the match, when scores are counted.
You're right on that on that one. Woops :o .
jaykris284
04-01-2015, 01:57
while we were looking at the manual, a lot of people suggested the idea of just picking up the container, taking it to the human player station, feeding a tube in, and just stacking it for the points. we couldn't find any rule against it, but we aren't entirely sure if it would be legal. thoughts?
Since the scoring is done at the end I don't see any issue to doing it this way.
In order for that container and the enclosed or on top litter, to score (in a scored container), it must be on a tote to be in the marked level 1 on the backstop. There currently certainly appears to be no rule against recycling the litter in that specific manner. Notice also a human player field introduced bin first on the floor, then a container stacked on top of that, then human player feeds the litter into the container, then lift the whole shebang very carefully now from the bottom up bin, right up and onto a 4 bin stack...Topped off. (The turn around and drive forward is the trickiest part without dumping that container into all those nicely stacked bins).
If you attempt to recycle litter into a container standing upright on a five grey bin stack without throwing it into it, you will get called for going over a robot height rule for sure. Now, if that Container is laying horizontally on top of a 5 bin stack, you could do so without exceeding that height limitation, but you may be playing w/ fire there too when you cause that container to roll off possibly knocking down your whole stack among possibly other things like crushing your own or alliance partners robots.
TNA under the existing rules will still be a major issue though.:D
rich2202
04-01-2015, 05:54
There is no restriction on a human player placing the litter into, or on, the Container. A luck of a throw can accomplish that. There is also no rule that requires a robot to put the litter into a scoring position. As long as the litter is in a scoring position, it is scored.
During kickoff, I tried, and it is possible to hold the Litter in the Human Player loading hole, and have a robot position the Container so the litter can be inserted into the Container. There is no rule that I found that prevents that.
I brought this up to my team yesterday. They all loved the idea because then the robot doesn't have to be able to pick up the noodles. We even worked out a rough estimate on how far the can would have to be. It seems like this might be the best strategy for scoring the litter.
amesmich
04-01-2015, 12:48
If you attempt to recycle litter into a container standing upright on a five grey bin stack without throwing it into it, you will get called for going over a robot height rule for sure.
How so The robot wont be taller that the 6'6". Where in the rules does it say the container and bins cant exceed that height. They wont be scored if final resting height is above that but it does not say the containers or totes exceeding that is a violation.
AndyBare
04-01-2015, 15:28
How so The robot wont be taller that the 6'6". Where in the rules does it say the container and bins cant exceed that height. They wont be scored if final resting height is above that but it does not say the containers or totes exceeding that is a violation.
The point he was making in that post is that if you have 5 totes and a bin standing on top, the plane of the top of the bin with the hole will be higher than 6'6" and it will be physically impossible to PLACE a noodle into it while making direct contact.
tindleroot
04-01-2015, 15:38
Notice also a human player field introduced bin first on the floor, then a container stacked on top of that, then human player feeds the litter into the container, then lift the whole shebang very carefully now from the bottom up bin, right up and onto a 4 bin stack...Topped off. (The turn around and drive forward is the trickiest part without dumping that container into all those nicely stacked bins).
TNA under the existing rules will still be a major issue though.:D
Except that 6 totes + 1 recycling bin is the max stack, not 5 totes
Alex Webber
04-01-2015, 17:07
I just re read the rules. As there is nothing stated against it, then it is completely legal
DonRotolo
04-01-2015, 17:19
I agree with Alex: There is nothing making the placement of LITTER into the can by a human illegal, therefore it is allowed.
Prove me wrong?
pntbll1313
04-01-2015, 17:28
'Snow Problem's has a pretty good video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH0Gv2w8l0E&feature=youtu.be&a)showing that it's definitely possible.
MJ Miller
04-01-2015, 20:39
We like this scenario for scoring the litter into the bin. Seems the best way to do it - and its legal! Also, I don't see any limitation on stack height. You can keep going up by lifting from the bottom and adding another bin under the stack! Reality catches up at some point, but this is just an idea.
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