View Full Version : Future of Edward Jones Dome?
Conor Ryan
05-01-2015, 10:24
The Rams just announced plans to build & move to a stadium in Los Angeles
http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-0105-nfl-la-stadium-20150105-story.html#page=1
As fantastic as the Dome is for FRC (now that FTC and FLL are moving cross town), what could this mean about the long term plan to stay in St Louis? Currently FIRST is committed through 2017.
I really hope it doesn't go the way of the Astrodome (after the Astros moved out).
The optimistic outlook is that this is just sabre-rattling by the Rams' owner as he tries to get the city of St Louis to pay for stadium upgrades or a new stadium entirely.
This is a pretty common tactic by big sports teams - they threaten to move, and no politician wants to be the guy that let Local Sports Team leave, so they end up extracting huge piles of money from cities that often can't afford it. By making their threat of leaving more credible, the Rams are hoping to get better concessions from the city.
You can see more analysis from that viewpoint on deadspin: http://deadspin.com/report-rams-owner-bought-land-threatening-to-build-l-1677488994
The_ShamWOW88
05-01-2015, 11:03
Currently, the news is that the Rams owner, Stan Kroenke, and his real estate firm are planning a stadium in Inglewood, CA. The Rams have yet to publicly state they are moving their team there. They are still negotiating with St. Louis for updates to the Dome.
Wayne Doenges
05-01-2015, 11:28
Move the Championships to Indiananpolis, IN :D
Jimmy Nichols
05-01-2015, 11:51
Even if they do move, it would take a couple years to actually build a new stadium and the infrastructure for the team to move.
wilderbuchanan
05-01-2015, 11:53
Move championship to Staple Center and Los Angeles Convention Cent?
Zebra_Fact_Man
05-01-2015, 12:37
For the next 4 years min, this is a non issue. Business, politics, and construction all take time, and even if this does become a reality, the Rams won't have moved until well after FIRST's contract with EJD is over.
Story still in speculation mode.
Well dont the St Louis Blues play there too? So the stadium would stay kept up, right?
nikeairmancurry
05-01-2015, 12:51
Well dont the St Louis Blues play there too? So the stadium would stay kept up, right?
Blue's play in a arena down by Busch Stadium.
Well dont the St Louis Blues play there too? So the stadium would stay kept up, right?
Blue's play in a arena down by Busch Stadium.
The Blues play at the Scottrade Center.
XaulZan11
05-01-2015, 12:59
According to several reports, the Rams are looking to move to LA by 2016 before their new stadium is finished in 2018. I'm not sure how much the stadium will degrade in one year. I think the biggest take away is that it is looking unlikely FIRST will hold the championship in St. Louis after 2017. If the Rams cannot agree with the city by the end of this month on stadium upgrades and goes to a year to year contract, FIRST better start looking at other options.
Huge public money going into expensive stadiums bothers me. I wish cities negotiated better deals for themselves. I'll spare everyone the long rant, but I could easily produce one on this topic.
This may all be a moot point. FIRST has a contract to hold their championship event in Saint Louis at the Edward Jones Dome through 2017. 2018 and beyond is still up in the air, Rams or no Rams.
The optimistic outlook is that this is just sabre-rattling by the Rams' owner as he tries to get the city of St Louis to pay for stadium upgrades or a new stadium entirely.
This is a pretty common tactic by big sports teams - they threaten to move, and no politician wants to be the guy that let Local Sports Team leave, so they end up extracting huge piles of money from cities that often can't afford it. By making their threat of leaving more credible, the Rams are hoping to get better concessions from the city.
Exactly they want about $800 Million in upgrades, the negotiations are about $540 million apart. With the St. Louis population the team wants $2,100 per person. :ahh:
Which means about $800 million that won't go into schools, infrastructure, etc.
All the major sports teams do this. In the Philly area the two new stadiums won't be paid off until 2050.
To me it would be like the situation in San Antonio with the Alamodome. There is no NFL team there but they have no plans to demolish the arena. I doubt they would demolish the Jones Dome. In fact they would probably want the championship there even more to have something there.
Richard Wallace
05-01-2015, 13:31
Move the Championships to Indiananpolis, IN :DSince Indy was nearly selected back in 2010, it would be one of the stronger candidates to succeed STL whenever FIRST moves on.
I lived in St. Louis for a long time, and have enjoyed going back for CMP these past several years. I've also enjoyed going to IRI at Lawrence North HS these past several years, so in my imagination Indy is an ideal place to play robots. While I have a personal bias toward the outstanding FIRST volunteer corps in St. Louis, I know from many direct experiences that their counterparts in Indiana can match or exceed any others, anywhere. [And yes, I include Michigan.]
However, the logistical challenge of CMP is an order of magnitude (at least) larger than that of IRI, or any other event Indiana has hosted so far. Is downtown Indy a good place to walk around, near the venue that FIRST would use? Is there metro rail from the airport to that part of town? Enough hotel rooms? I know those were important considerations when St. Louis made its pitch to FIRST, and I think we all have seen how CMP growth has strained St. Louis' capacity.
TL/DR; does Indy have the capacity to handle CMP?
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edit@Foster: Unlike Indy, St. Louis population figures divide into city (~300k) and county (~1M), so the per capita figure for stadium improvements is not as high as you calculated. In any case your main point is correct -- sports teams demand and often get funding concessions that are not justified by their impact on the community.
Since Indy was nearly selected back in 2010, it would be one of the stronger candidates to succeed STL whenever FIRST moves on.
I lived in St. Louis for a long time, and have enjoyed going back for CMP these past several years. I've also enjoyed going to IRI at Lawrence North HS these past several years, so in my imagination Indy is an ideal place to play robots. While I have a personal bias toward the outstanding FIRST volunteer corps in St. Louis, I know from many direct experiences that their counterparts in Indiana can match or exceed any others, anywhere. [And yes, I include Michigan.]
However, the logistical challenge of CMP is an order of magnitude (at least) larger than that of IRI, or any other event Indiana has hosted so far. Is downtown Indy a good place to walk around, near the venue that FIRST would use? Is there metro rail from the airport to that part of town? Enough hotel rooms? I know those were important considerations when St. Louis made its pitch to FIRST, and I think we all have seen how CMP growth has strained St. Louis' capacity.
TL/DR; does Indy have the capacity to handle CMP?
That would be a tough question for even previous places like Atlanta.
I do wonder why Houston was never considered. Reliant Stadium was a fine place to host the championship. It was the Astrodome that I had issue with...
MrTechCenter
05-01-2015, 14:24
That would be a tough question for even previous places like Atlanta.
I do wonder why Houston was never considered. Reliant Stadium was a fine place to host the championship. It was the Astrodome that I had issue with...
Maybe there's no easy access between the convention center and Reliant Stadium? I also think it would be an ideal location, as it also has Reliant Arena in the plaza and Houston is a major hub for United Airlines which means it wouldn't be as hard to get flights as it is for St. Louis.
Lil' Lavery
05-01-2015, 14:32
This may all be a moot point. FIRST has a contract to hold their championship event in Saint Louis at the Edward Jones Dome through 2017. 2018 and beyond is still up in the air, Rams or no Rams.
There may well be out clauses for both FIRST or the Edward Jones Dome. It wouldn't surprise me if losing their main tenant triggered such as clause for the EJD, as it would signal a huge restructuring of their business model.
Conor Ryan
05-01-2015, 15:23
I was very surprised when I saw this:
http://www.10best.com/awards/travel/best-convention-city/
Then I saw this:
http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/americas-best-and-worst-airports
And when you combine the two, you'll get a pretty good idea on what cities are the most qualified. I'd weight the first one more than the second.
rich2202
05-01-2015, 15:28
Over the short-term (few years), loosing the football team is not a big deal operationally (other than revenue). Football is only a guaranteed 8 days per year.
Most of the costs are fixed costs (debt service and maintenance). So, running a full program of non-football events helps to offset the fixed costs.
The first budget item to be cut will be maintenance. That should not materially impact the facility in the short-term (through 2017). Whether non-football revenues are enough to cover required maintenance (health and safety issues) will determine whether it is cheaper to keep the facility open past 2017, or to close it.
If St. Louis does commit to a new stadium, that may have a more immediate impact. If the current facility is closed in order to build the new stadium ... Chicago did something similar a few years ago, and games were played at the Univ of IL in Champagne during the renovation.
Football is only a guaranteed 8 days per year.
10 days. All NFL teams (that don't play a regular season game in London) host 2 pre-season games and 8 regular season games.
If St. Louis does commit to a new stadium
The Rams don't want a new stadium. https://explorestlouis.com/rams-proposal.pdf (Visuals start on Page 20)
Maybe there's no easy access between the convention center and Reliant Stadium? I also think it would be an ideal location, as it also has Reliant Arena in the plaza and Houston is a major hub for United Airlines which means it wouldn't be as hard to get flights as it is for St. Louis.
NRG Center, a large (706,000 sq ft) convention center, is about 200 yards from Reliant Stadium in Houston.
I don't know why, or even if, Houston is being considered as a future site. The facility is certainly large enough. However, that 200 yards is uncovered and exposed to the elements. Given Houston's climate, that may be an issue.
That said, Houston is still considering what to do with the old Astrodome. It's always possible that whatever is done will result in a better venue for FIRST championships.
Craig Roys
05-01-2015, 15:54
This is what can happen to a football stadium in a very short period of time when left alone.
http://youtu.be/vAKCNK5TAiE
Crazy.
NRG Center, a large (706,000 sq ft) convention center, is about 200 yards from Reliant Stadium in Houston.
My team would find it hilarious if Championship were to be held in a place named NRG.
- Beth Moursund, 13 year mentor of team NRG 948
Maybe there's no easy access between the convention center and Reliant Stadium? I also think it would be an ideal location, as it also has Reliant Arena in the plaza and Houston is a major hub for United Airlines which means it wouldn't be as hard to get flights as it is for St. Louis.
What the championship looked like back in 2003. (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/X-Cats/media/Photo%20Archive/2003%20Season/Championship/90743e30.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0) You can see both domes were being used.
The Rams don't want a new stadium.
It appears they want 1/2 of a new stadium. They want to rip the interstate highway side of the building down, move the field over 52' in that direction and then put a new set of seating in place.
The document was pretty interesting. Thanks for posting it.
@Richard Wallace - thanks for the population count update. I was sort of wondering why St. Louis appeared small in the population graphs. The triple sized county around it makes up for it.
It appears they want 1/2 of a new stadium. They want to rip the interstate highway side of the building down, move the field over 52' in that direction and then put a new set of seating in place.
It is an ambitious plan. I'm not surprised the CVC (http://explorestlouis.com/st-louis-cvc/) didn't go for it.
The document was pretty interesting. Thanks for posting it.
Here's the CVC's proposal: http://slcvc.explorestlouis.com/cvc/Final%20-%20CVC%20Proposal%20Design%20Proposal%20August%202 012.pdf
nicholsjj
05-01-2015, 21:17
The dome is not going to be torn down for at least the next 10 years for a few reasons. First and foremost the convention center brings millions if dollars to the Saint Louis area each year and losing the dome would make much of that money go away. Secondly there would be not much the city could do with the space to match the money that the convention center is bringing in without convincing and giving major tax breaks to a large manufacture. Finally Saint Louis has a strong soccer fan base and I wouldn't be surprised if mls would expand for a team in the dome. With all that being said, I still believe that First will leave after 2017 just for a change of scenery. If another location has similar perks of Saint Louis, i.e. Indy, then I thinka move will be in the works. I think it would actually help the Eastern Mo./Western Il. teams as well since it would allow our event organizers to focus more locally, not that they don't do a great job for both but Champs does take focus away.
Christopher149
05-01-2015, 21:28
It is an ambitious plan. I'm not surprised the CVC (http://explorestlouis.com/st-louis-cvc/) didn't go for it.
Here's the CVC's proposal: http://slcvc.explorestlouis.com/cvc/Final%20-%20CVC%20Proposal%20Design%20Proposal%20August%202 012.pdf
The CVC's proposal was a good read (and actually readable compared to the apparent legalese in the beginning of the Rams proposal). Seems like some reasonable renovations (and thankfully no demolishing of the whole building).
Seems like some reasonable renovations
The issue is that the Ram's lease says that the Edward Jones Dome has to be in the "first-tier" of NFL stadiums by this year, and an arbitrator said the Rams' proposal accomplishes that, and the CVC's doesn't.
XaulZan11
05-01-2015, 22:03
The issue is that the Ram's lease says that the Edward Jones Dome has to be in the "first-tier" of NFL stadiums by this year, and an arbitrator said the Rams' proposal accomplishes that, and the CVC's doesn't.
The city will be releasing a new plan by Friday in hopes it will be a "first-tier" stadium.
It is an interesting situation where the owner is prepared to pay for a brand new stadium in LA, but is looking for the tax payers in St. Louis to pay a good chunk of the upgrades to the current stadium. The NFL is really good at a lot of things, especially using LA to get tax payers to pick up the tab on their stadiums.
The NFL is really good at a lot of things, especially using LA to get tax payers to pick up the tab on their stadiums.
QFT.
Although if somebody moves to L.A., the NFL will be using that team's old home city instead.
Looks like Edwards Jones Dome days are numbered.
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/09/st-louis-rams-open-air-stadium-proposal
Looks like Edwards Jones Dome days are numbered.
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/09/st-louis-rams-open-air-stadium-proposal
If that's the case then FIRST's days in St. Louis are numbered as well....
If that's the case then FIRST's days in St. Louis are numbered as well....
Back to Orlando!
ThePremium6
09-01-2015, 16:58
Move championship to Staple Center and Los Angeles Convention Cent?
I don't think either of those are big enough
The new stadium would be on a different site than the Dome (closer to the river). The Dome would stay as part of of the convention complex.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/plan-to-keep-nfl-in-st-louis-to-be-revealed/article_e1e77d44-59e1-50a1-87f4-17b56c6d233b.html
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