Pneumatic Tank Restrictions

[Lemon]

After looking through the manual, I couldn't find any restriction as to the manufacture of pneumatic tanks used for the systems. Specifically, to the best of your knowledge is there anything that would restrict us from using a Viair half gallon or gallon metal tank?

http://www.viaircorp.com/05gallon.html

[orangemoore]

As far as I have read the only restriction on tanks is it must be rated 125 psi or above and they cannot be the White CLIPPARD Plastic Air tanks.

R66
I. Pneumatic storage tanks (with the exception of White Clippard tanks P/N: AVT-PP-41)

R64 All pneumatic items must be COTS pneumatic devices rated by their manufacturers for working pressure of at least 125psi (with
the exception of R66-D).

[AllenGregoryIV]

As far as I have read the only restriction on tanks is it must be rated 125 psi or above and they cannot be the White Plastic Air tanks.

Just for clarification. Only White CLIPPARD plastic air tanks are illegal. There are a variety of plastic air tanks that happen to also be white. Those are still legal.

[Chris_Ely]

One thing to keep in mind is that the typical compressors used in FRC (http://www.viaircorp.com/c-models.html) only have a 9% duty cycle. They get very hot with prolonged use, such as filling a large tank. I would suggest mounting one of the large fans from the KOP next to the compressor to help cool it.

[rich2202]

Just for clarification. Only White CLIPPARD plastic air tanks are illegal. There are a variety of plastic air tanks that happen to also be white. Those are still legal.

Further clarification: The specified tanks had failure problems, and that's why they are not allowed. FRC has nothing against white tanks, plastic tanks, or other Clippard tanks.

[rich2202]

One thing to keep in mind is that the typical compressors used in FRC (http://www.viaircorp.com/c-models.html) only have a 9% duty cycle.

I saw a team last year use a large tank. Note: It has to be pressurized with a legal Compressor (check the specifications for compressors). They charged it with an off-bot compressor (heavy duty legal compressor). It took 2-3 minutes to charge the tank.

[seg9585]

Here's a thought: could the tanks be pressurized while physically detached from the robot (still pressurized by one legal compressor), then installed on the field to comply with transport dimension rules?

I envision a propane-tank-sized accumulator fit to the side of the bot, pressurized off the bot and closed with a valve, then attached to the pressure loop on the bot during the 1-minute field prep.

[Mark Sheridan]

Here's a thought: could the tanks be pressurized while physically detached from the robot (still pressurized by one legal compressor), then installed on the field to comply with transport dimension rules?

I envision a propane-tank-sized accumulator fit to the side of the bot, pressurized off the bot and closed with a valve, then attached to the pressure loop on the bot during the 1-minute field prep.

R70 “Stored” air pressure on the ROBOT must be no greater than 120 psi. No stored air pressure intended for the ROBOT may be located off-board the ROBOT.
So no

[BryceKarlins]

Here's a thought: could the tanks be pressurized while physically detached from the robot (still pressurized by one legal compressor), then installed on the field to comply with transport dimension rules?

I envision a propane-tank-sized accumulator fit to the side of the bot, pressurized off the bot and closed with a valve, then attached to the pressure loop on the bot during the 1-minute field prep.

Also, the tank is a part of the robot, therefore has to be included in the transportation configuration.

[seg9585]

Also, the tank is a part of the robot, therefore has to be included in the configuration.

Well it has to be included within the transport configuration dimensions of the robot (28x42x78) ie physically placed inside that perimeter until the tank can be relocated elsewhere when placed on the field. For example, couldn't the tank sit within an area intended for tote intake/processing during transport, then moved to an external area when placed on the field?
Seems to be this is still in the spirit of "On-board the robot" even if the air isn't physically connected to the regulator/valve inlets until it gets on the field.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Lets just back up for a second here. Why do you want to use one of these viair tanks anyways? The 0.5 and 1.0 gallon tanks are both about 2 lbs heavier than an equivalent storage volume of these clippard tanks (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2649.htm). Are you that tight on space that you'd rather add the 2 lbs?

[BryceKarlins]

Well it has to be included within the transport configuration dimensions of the robot (28x42x78) ie physically placed inside that perimeter until the tank can be relocated elsewhere when placed on the field. For example, couldn't the tank sit within an area intended for tote intake/processing during transport, then moved to an external area when placed on the field?
Seems to be this is still in the spirit of "On-board the robot" even if the air isn't physically connected to the regulator/valve inlets until it gets on the field.


Umm, I would say that kind of stretches the meaning of "on-board storage." I would ask at the Q&A to be sure, but a simple fix would be to just keep the tank hooked up to the system at all times, and simply move it outside the robot while keeping the hoses connected.

[KMeyers]

One thing to keep in mind is that the typical compressors used in FRC (http://www.viaircorp.com/c-models.html) only have a 9% duty cycle. They get very hot with prolonged use, such as filling a large tank. I would suggest mounting one of the large fans from the KOP next to the compressor to help cool it.

You could help reduce the load on the compressor by preloading the tank from an off-board compressor prior to the match.

[Jon Stratis]

You could help reduce the load on the compressor by preloading the tank from an off-board compressor prior to the match.

Please see:
R68 Compressed air on the ROBOT must be provided by one and only one compressor. Compressor specifications may not
exceed nominal 12VDC, 1.05 cfm flow rate.

Using an off-board compressor while having an onboard one is not legal.

[Mr V]

Lets just back up for a second here. Why do you want to use one of these viair tanks anyways? The 0.5 and 1.0 gallon tanks are both about 2 lbs heavier than an equivalent storage volume of these clippard tanks (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2649.htm). Are you that tight on space that you'd rather add the 2 lbs?


With this year's game I could see using the heavier tank purely because it is heavier since properly placed ballast can be something very useful this season.

[rich2202]

properly placed ballast can be something very useful this season.

We are always trying to cut weight. Just properly place what you already have.

There must be a rule about exposed tanks. But, since this is not a contact game, maybe not.

[Jon Stratis]

There must be a rule about exposed tanks. But, since this is not a contact game, maybe not.

There is. It's the same it's always been:
R8 ROBOT parts shall not be made from hazardous materials, be unsafe, cause an unsafe condition, or interfere with the operation
of other ROBOTS.

Having a tank exposed where it's likely to be hit by another robot creates an unsafe condition on the field.

[Mr V]

We are always trying to cut weight. Just properly place what you already have.

There must be a rule about exposed tanks. But, since this is not a contact game, maybe not.


Yes in some games with some designs you need to be extremely conscious about weight, however in this game I predict that I will inspect many robots with a lot of ballast.

As an example for the robot we at Team [REDACTED] built in 3 days we added 44lbs of ballast and were still 2.5lbs under weight.

In the past there has not been a specific rule about tank placement and I have seen many tanks mounted in less than protected locations. Last year with the tanks that had a tendency to explode there was some increased awareness of tank location but no rule specifically stating that the tanks had to be protected from impact.