The 'Newdle' Agreement

[Grim Tuesday]

With today's team update, the [old] Noodle Agreement (TNA) is no longer effective - you can't just dump the litter through the chute for 40 easy points. A few members of my team were thinking that there may be a new Noodle Agreement. Noodles are worth 1 point when in the landfill and 4 points if unprocessed. What if both alliances agree to:


Throw >8 of their litter to the other side of the field
Not push it into the landfill zone or push it out of the landfill zone if it lands there
Do this mutually so that both alliances get at least 32 points for these 8 litter instead of 8


Both alliances can keep a few litter to put in containers.


This provides a clear benefit for both alliances and it is equally easy to push litter out of the landfill zone (newdle agreement task) as it is to push it in (standard game task).

The noodle agreement is not dead.

[Thad House]

With today's team update, the [old] Noodle Agreement (TNA) is no longer effective - you can't just dump the litter through the chute for 40 easy points. A few members of my team were thinking that there may be a new Noodle Agreement. Noodles are worth 1 point when in the landfill and 4 points if unprocessed. What if both alliances agree to:


Throw >8 of their litter to the other side of the field
Not push it into the landfill zone or push it out of the landfill zone if it lands there
Do this mutually so that both alliances get at least 32 points for these 8 litter instead of 8


Both alliances can keep a few litter to put in containers.


This provides a clear benefit for both alliances and it is equally easy to push litter out of the landfill zone (newdle agreement task) as it is to push it in (standard game task).

The noodle agreement is not dead.

This requires enough skill to actually get a noodle to the other side of the field, so I don't really think there is much to worry about.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

You trollin?

[Jacob Bendicksen]

This requires enough skill to actually get a noodle to the other side of the field, so I don't really think there is much to worry about.

I'd agree with Thad here - with practice, you might be able to get one or two across the field per match, but as events go on and noodles get more damaged, it will get harder to do. I don't think it'll be a huge problem.

[AdamHeard]

You trollin?

He trollin.

[Anupam Goli]

He trollin.

I trollin if you trollin

We trollin den.

But seriously, I wouldn't bank on the human players from both alliances being able to get all the noodles over to the other side of the field.

[PayneTrain]

>post boxxytrollin.gif
>none of the new kids get my old internet maymays
> mfw

http://i.imgur.com/RKANNsw.gif

[JeffersonMartin]

I trollin if you trollin

We trollin den.



You know, we need more CFB references on Chief Delphi.

[plnyyanks]

>post boxxytrollin.gif
>none of the new kids get my old internet maymays
> mfw


No, it's got to be those crazy youts...

http://i.imgur.com/lnfK0f9.jpg

[nighterfighter]

While the math to your solution may be correct, the ability to get the situation for the math to work, will be very difficult... (Getting >8 pieces of litter over the STEP. Remember, only humans are allowed to throw it across, robots are not allowed to.)

[asid61]

Could be possible, but much harder to uphold.

[alopex_rex]

The problem with this idea is that even if the alliances make the agreement, throwing the noodles across is so hard that maintaining the agreement would be difficult. In practice, whichever team was more successful at throwing the noodles would get more points out of the deal. So it would essentially become a competition to see which team was able to throw across more noodles--

Wait, that's exactly how it's supposed to work, isn't it. Well played GDC, well played.

[JohnFogarty]

Throwing the noodles that far is easy.... I may have a bias because both our human player and I are 6'4"+.

[Whippet]

Throwing the noodles that far is easy.... I may have a bias because both I and our human player is 6'4"+.

+1

[pmangels17]

What incentive would a team have to make such an agreement if they had the ability to throw the noodles that far? Why wouldn't it be better for an alliance to throw their noodles to the other side of the field, score whatever lands on their own side in the landfill, and score more points that the other alliance, therefore giving them more points in their qualifying average than three other teams?

It seems as though the rules lend themselves to a strategy where each alliance tries as hard as they can to score as many points as they can, while minimizing the scored points of the other alliance. That would be the point of FIRST Robotics COMPETITION.

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

This are dumb.

Let's just throw our own tubes and agree to try to score the most points for our own alliance.

-Gooooooo blue team!!!

[mrnoble]

Go ahead and write a contract for your idea, OP. Pass it out at your competition and request feedback.

Should go well.

[Trey178]

Looks like they chose to use a marking method on the noodles. After some practice throws, I noticed the best chance at making over the step was to throw the litter like a javelin straight down the length of the field. Even then it has to get past the landfill zone and I can't get a good look on whether or not it landed there.

[jaykris284]

Seems like the "Noodle Agreement" has been fixed. While the Newdle Agreement is a noble concept I think it will overly complicate the game.

[Skyehawk]

No, it's got to be those crazy youts...

http://i.imgur.com/lnfK0f9.jpg

Lol, my cousin Vinney, great movie.

[Vale]

I'd agree with Thad here - with practice, you might be able to get one or two across the field per match, but as events go on and noodles get more damaged, it will get harder to do. I don't think it'll be a huge problem.

I have to agree with Jacob on the low probability of the "newdle agreement" becoming an issue. This agreement seems a bit too harsh on human players as it is something that affects both alliances and would leave a lot more room for error than in the original noodle agreement. Failure in both cases of the agreement could have possibly caused some rifts between teams and alliances. The worst part is that internal issues of a team could even stem from this.

Though this is an interesting reboot of the noodle agreement, I think that most teams will attempt to avoid doing it to not only make their lives a bit easier, but also to keep things fun.

Basically, while the noodle agreement isn't dead, it isn't quite alive, either.

Edit: I had incorrect information. Thank you to Gregor for helping to clarify for me.

[Gregor]

I am kind of questioning how many noodles can someone throw in 20 seconds, though.

What limits the human player to only throwing the noodles for 20 seconds?

[Vale]

What limits the human player to only throwing the noodles for 20 seconds?

Rule G33 from the game manual, I believe.

"G33 LITTER may be introduced onto the FIELD only during TELEOP and only in the following ways:
A. through the LITTER CHUTE, or
B. over the ALLIANCE WALL prior to the last twenty (20) seconds of the MATCH.
VIOLATION: FOUL per LITTER."

EDIT: Wait, opps, I'm sorry. You are right. Thank you for helping me clarify my reading.

[mackenzieg]

While The Newdle Agreement is an interesting idea, I highly doubt that we will see it being. Firstly, simply because the chances of throwing noodles accurately every time are very small, I think many teams will be reluctant to do this.

Also, considering the rules change specifically to prevent TNA, I would imagine that more and more teams would be deciding that this sort of play (agreeing to give each other points) was not what was intended in this game.

Overall, I think most teams wouldn't really want to try this.

______________
Mackenzie Glaser
Robo Lions 1261

[S.P.A.M.er 17]

I wonder how this would work with G24:

Both teams have a "newdle bot" to collect their colored litter, place the it on the step for a swap, and then place the swapped litter in a non-scoring zone on their side.

G24 ROBOTS may not cause TOTES, RECYCLING CONTAINERS, and/or LITTER to completely transfer from their side of the FIELD,
or from the STEP, onto the opposite side of the FIELD.
VIOLATION: FOUL. If egregious or strategic, RED CARD and offending ROBOT will be DISABLED.

[EricH]

I wonder how this would work with G24:

Both teams have a "newdle bot" to collect their colored litter, place the it on the step for a swap, and then place the swapped litter in a non-scoring zone on their side.

The rule is "completely", so I think you'd be OK.

However, you'd need your opponents go to along...

[2130driven]

question all...

so how would you make a new agereement to use it to both of the teams advantage?
:confused:

[EricH]

question all...

so how would you make a new agereement to use it to both of the teams advantage?
:confused:

The only way to do such an agreement would be this:

Both alliances run their noodles to the step, and put them down. Each alliance then picks up their opponents' stack of noodles and moves it beyond the Landfill.


Which agreement will fall to pieces as soon as someone either dumps the stack in their own Landfill, or doesn't pick it up, or is short one noodle, or, worse yet, picks up BOTH stacks of noodles and drops them in their own Landfill.


Long story short, it isn't worth if for most teams. Which, I might add, appears to be exactly what the GDC wants.

[2130driven]

so, does anyone have any ideas to make a new "newdle" agreement?:confused:

[EricH]

so, does anyone have any ideas to make a new "newdle" agreement?:confused:

Why are you asking again?

The GDC has changed the rules specifically to make it VERY difficult to do this. All the easy, and many of the difficult, ways to try a noodle agreement are blocked by a penalty of some form. I outlined the only legal way above: Both alliances put some number of noodles on the Step, and pick up the other alliance's noodles and move them past their own landfill. And pray that the other alliance holds up their end of the deal.

Trust me, while there may be a way around the rules, it's not going to be worth the effort.

[plnyyanks]

so, does anyone have any ideas to make a new "newdle" agreement?:confused:

Trust me, while there may be a way around the rules, it's not going to be worth the effort.

It's pretty clear from the GDC's rule changes (see the Team Update on 9 January) that they don't want the noodle agreement, or any similar method of "free points" to be a thing.

See Frank's note at the top:
This note is from Frank Merrick, Director of FRC

Hello Teams! You will see that several of these updates relate to the Noodle Agreement I talked about in the update from January 6th. As

I said in that update, game design, like robot design, involves many trade-offs. These changes are not perfect, but I believe they will help

ease the controversy over the Noodle Agreement, and encourage more enjoyable game play.

Frank

So it's pretty unlikely there's any kind of agreement left - don't lose any sleep over finding one.