View Full Version : Talon SRX Data Port Header
SquishyIce
13-01-2015, 10:31
I've been trying to find a header that would work with the ribbon cable that connects to the data port header on the SRX, and I think I've found it: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/N2510-6002-RB/MHC10K-ND/755176 Will this part work? If not, could someone direct me to one that will?
marshall
13-01-2015, 10:33
I've been trying to find a header that would work with the ribbon cable that connects to the data port header on the SRX, and I think I've found it: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/N2510-6002-RB/MHC10K-ND/755176 Will this part work? If not, could someone direct me to one that will?
That part will not work. That is a .1" spaced header. The Talon SRX uses a .05" spaced header. I don't have a link handy to a part but I can find one later if someone doesn't beat me to it.
Also, don't forget your team's digikey voucher if you order anything from them.
EDIT:
Links:
I think these are all valid but double check them. It kind of depends on what you want. The .05 pitch makes these things tiny.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/3220-10-0100-00/1175-1627-ND/3883661
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/3220-10-0300-00/1175-1629-ND/3883266
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/M50-3000545/952-1365-5-ND/2264346
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/M50-3600542/952-1389-ND/2264370
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/M50-3500542/952-1383-ND/2264364
SquishyIce
13-01-2015, 11:01
Thanks a ton! I've been looking at making a custom breakout for the SRX, and depending on the path forward, that female header may come in very handy. Thanks again for your help!
nixiebunny
16-01-2015, 16:14
I am also thinking of making a different (better) SRX encoder breakout board.
Here's what it needs:
A 5 pin 0.1" header to match the Cui AMT103-V pinout, including Index
Two 2 pin 0.1" headers for the limit switches
A 3 pin 0.1" header for the analog pot sensor
A set of mounting screws so you can stick it to the robot!
Who wants some?
nixiebunny
16-01-2015, 17:38
I think a breakout board on the Talon might make more sense than having it at the end of a ribbon cable. A nice connector is this one:
Digikey 609-3754-ND
The board wants to be designed so that it is centered on the Talon when the plug is centered in the header.
Speaking of the data port, the product description lists the Talon as being able to communicate over CAN and PWM, but also SPI and UART. Has anyone seen anything regarding the SPI and UART? The terms don't show up in the manuals.
picklednerd
16-01-2015, 19:39
Our team actually felt the exact same way about the current Talon breakouts; we aren't fans of the ribbon cables. We just finished designing two Talon boards, a breakout and a 5v to 3.3v analog converter, that mount directly to the Talon SRX. I've attached the white paper we've written, which includes all of the parts links on Digikey. If you'd like Gerber files or the Altium project files, I'd be happy to send them.
We just finished designing two Talon boards, a breakout and a 5v to 3.3v analog converter, that mount directly to the Talon SRX.
Are you saying you will be mounting the Talon to a PCB board instead of mounting it to a heat-sink surface?
SquishyIce
16-01-2015, 22:55
Interesting design ideas... We were toying with the idea of mounting directly to the talon, but we went with (ironically) more ribbon cables. We basically feed all the data ribbon cables into one board that puts all the signals into a 34-pin ribbon cable which goes out to a board closer to the actual encoders and whatnot to reduce on messing with getting the encoder wires all the way back. I may end up adapting picklenerd's design into a board that supports multiple talons...I hadn't thought of using a jumper to switch between 5v and 3.3v for the quad. encoders. Maybe I'll revise our current design if we get a bit of pocket change, we JUST ordered boards tonight.
marshall
17-01-2015, 00:40
Are you saying you will be mounting the Talon to a PCB board instead of mounting it to a heat-sink surface?
The breakout will be mounted to the top of the Talon. The Talon will be mounted to the chassis. At least, that is the current plan.
The Talon will be mounted to the chassis.
Don't forget the TIM. It's explicitly permitted in the 2015 rules.
wireties
17-01-2015, 04:18
something like this? needs mtg holes though...
wireties
17-01-2015, 09:11
better version...
marshall
17-01-2015, 09:23
better version...
Interesting. I'm digging the convergent evolution with these designs.
Are you at all worried about shorting on the bottom side of your board?
TheOtherGuy
21-01-2015, 15:40
We're about to order some advanced circuits "barebones" compatible boards (bottom traces/pins steer clear of SRX body). We're going exclusively with AMT102V encoders, so the pinout /voltages matches those. I'll post back with info on how they turn out...
17920
marshall
21-01-2015, 15:49
We're about to order some advanced circuits "barebones" compatible boards (bottom traces/pins steer clear of SRX body). We're going exclusively with AMT102V encoders, so the pinout /voltages matches those. I'll post back with info on how they turn out...
17920
Still waiting on ours at the moment. Should be in soon though. Then it's surface mount with a hot plate time! :)
Mike Copioli
21-01-2015, 19:33
This is an example of what we had envisioned when designing the SRX encoder breakout.
We found that mounting a PCB directly to the Talon's housing is not without risk. Foreign objects such as wrenches, misplaced hands... would damage the PCB and sometimes the Talons data connector.
The other concern, there is no female counter part to the Data connector, at least not one that is keyed. This would make it possible to insert the breakout backwards, which could damage both the Talon and the down-stream device.
Since there is no easy way to enforce polarity we felt it would cause less stress for teams to have a breakout that was inline with the Talons wiring.
wireties
21-01-2015, 21:48
Interesting. I'm digging the convergent evolution with these designs.
Are you at all worried about shorting on the bottom side of your board?
Yeah - we'll need something to prevent it shorting out and act as a thermal barrier. Suggestions?
wireties
21-01-2015, 21:52
We found that mounting a PCB directly to the Talon's housing is not without risk. Foreign objects such as wrenches, misplaced hands... would damage the PCB and sometimes the Talons data connector.
Yeah - it would be nice if the mounting holes were positioned so that they would polarize a top-mounted board. But the data connector will be protected by the board itself. I'm thinking the board is passive and in no more danger that the kinda-thin and vulnerable 0.025 ribbon cable. We are crossing our fingers.
Ideal_Nerd
21-01-2015, 22:07
We are making a board that mounts to the top of the talon. We are just breaking out the the pins. We are then going to print a case to protect it. I will post pics on the 24th when we get the boards.
We are making a board that mounts to the top of the talon....We are then going to print a case to protect it.
Will the case (and the board) interfere with cooling airflow around the Talon?
RyanShoff
21-01-2015, 22:28
There are quite a few shared projects on Oshpark for SRX breakout boards. I haven't seen if any of the designing teams have posted if they actually work.
Ideal_Nerd
21-01-2015, 23:00
Will the case (and the board) interfere with cooling airflow around the Talon?
The board we are mounting it to is aluminum. It will act as a big heat sink.
TheOtherGuy
22-01-2015, 00:38
This is an example of what we had envisioned when designing the SRX encoder breakout.
We found that mounting a PCB directly to the Talon's housing is not without risk. Foreign objects such as wrenches, misplaced hands... would damage the PCB and sometimes the Talons data connector.
The other concern, there is no female counter part to the Data connector, at least not one that is keyed. This would make it possible to insert the breakout backwards, which could damage both the Talon and the down-stream device.
Since there is no easy way to enforce polarity we felt it would cause less stress for teams to have a breakout that was inline with the Talons wiring.
Definitely valid concerns. I imagined it would be easier for teams to damage the ribbon cable though. With the solder pads, if anything between the Talon and encoder fails, there's a good deal of work needed to make a repair (assuming you don't have a spare cable for each of your different encoder setups prepared).
Is there a small piece of plastic you can attach that fits the slot? Or perhaps just an incredibly obvious silkscreen marking? Or some kind of molding around the board? The inline method seems a bit hokey to me :rolleyes: Maybe I just need to play with brushless motor drivers more..
I have some gripes with the boards other than mounting (why not integrate analog + encoder and just sell 1 board? spots for pull-up resistors? etc), but I also imagine a better version will present itself in the future. Until then, ours will suffice.
marshall
22-01-2015, 09:13
This is an example of what we had envisioned when designing the SRX encoder breakout.
We found that mounting a PCB directly to the Talon's housing is not without risk. Foreign objects such as wrenches, misplaced hands... would damage the PCB and sometimes the Talons data connector.
The other concern, there is no female counter part to the Data connector, at least not one that is keyed. This would make it possible to insert the breakout backwards, which could damage both the Talon and the down-stream device.
Since there is no easy way to enforce polarity we felt it would cause less stress for teams to have a breakout that was inline with the Talons wiring.
This definitely helps explain the design but the issue I see is one of COTS and fabrication. These boards are expensive (particularly when you have 8-10 of them on a robot). It would be nice to be able to re-use them from year to year. As the rules are currently written and the fact that they are soldered connections... not sure about that. Not that it much matters being the first year for them... Just a thought.
Perhaps there is some middle ground for a design. I'd like to see a less fragile ribbon cable though and some way to make the part work from year to year or have an easy method for connecting everything... More Weidmullers (kidding)!
The board we are mounting it to is aluminum. It will act as a big heat sink.
Use thermal grease (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1429154#post1429154).
Mike Copioli
22-01-2015, 09:38
I'd like to see a less fragile ribbon cable though and some way to make the part work from year to year or have an easy method for connecting everything... More Weidmullers (kidding)!
As far as I know there have not been any reported issues with the SRX ribbon cable. In fact we use the exact same cable on the Talon EOL(end of line) test.
Have you had any issues with this cable? If so would you mind describing them?
There are quite a few shared projects on Oshpark for SRX breakout boards. I haven't seen if any of the designing teams have posted if they actually work.
We just submitted ours yesterday. We should get them in soon and will report back.
marshall
22-01-2015, 13:06
As far as I know there have not been any reported issues with the SRX ribbon cable. In fact we use the exact same cable on the Talon EOL(end of line) test.
Have you had any issues with this cable? If so would you mind describing them?
We discussed it a lot while beta testing. It's one of the reasons we decided to fabricate a board that could mount in place. It wasn't anything we saw in the field for the beta testing but I've seen issues with these .05" pins being flattened while plugging/unplugging these cables. Unlike the .1" pins, once you bend them, they are gone. I've also seen some issues with ribbon cables ripping near the headers from my PC repair days. Granted, your design does take care of those issues.
Don't get me wrong though... the SRXs are MILES... no, lightyears, ahead of the Jaguars. They are amazing products for FRC.
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