Brand New Electrical People Make this

[Sperkowsky]

Hello I am from 2869,

Basically last year our electrical guy graduated and when on to M.I.T. We were all very happy for him but it meant we had only one electrical person. The issue is she does not have much free time and only came once maybe twice a week for a few hours. SO me and My friend who's dad is an electrician decided to learn. I had no experience and he had a little but no FRC experience. Basically we learned everything from online in one day. Neither of our mentors know electrical so we were really on our own. So I proudly present what we did. We still have to shorten the Network cable and connect the light and two cameras but that's for final robot assembly. All constructive criticism will be taken but I am still really proud. http://postimg.org/image/u8divpdq7/
http://postimg.org/image/u8divpdq7/ (Not Sure If the Picture Posting Worked)

[Ben Wolsieffer]

It looks nice: its neater than ours and I've been doing ours for three years. The one comment I have is that you need to make sure that your main breaker is easily accessible when you mount your board on the robot.

[Sperkowsky]

It looks nice: its neater than ours and I've been doing ours for three years. The one comment I have is that you need to make sure that your main breaker is easily accessible when you mount your board on the robot.

Do you think having it right there is ok? The electrical is all completely exposed on the back of the robot countering some of the weight of the fork.

[Ben Wolsieffer]

Do you think having it right there is ok? The electrical is all completely exposed on the back of the robot countering some of the weight of the fork.

Yeah, its fine as long as the board is easily accessible.

[Ky0t3]

I'd say y'all did pretty good from the looks of it! Just make sure that the main breaker is always easily accessible from the outside of the bot!

[Thromgord]

Do you think having it right there is ok? The electrical is all completely exposed on the back of the robot countering some of the weight of the fork.

Your board may need a bit of shielding from above and from the sides (wouldn't want an errant tote or bin falling on this fine piece of work). I think that the main breaker is in a reasonably good location, it shouldn't be too hard to turn the robot off if it starts driving off as fast as it can possibly go ("I don't like your team anymore, and I'm moving to Team 254... and there's NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP ME!" It's happened before.) If this happens again and again, I would recommend placing the robot in a cage. A Faraday cage would work fine for this.

All joking aside, excellent electrical board! Nice job. I hope you feel very proud.

[Sperkowsky]

Your board may need a bit of shielding from above and from the sides (wouldn't want an errant tote or bin falling on this fine piece of work). I think that the main breaker is in a reasonably good location, it shouldn't be too hard to turn the robot off if it starts driving off as fast as it can possibly go ("I don't like your team anymore, and I'm moving to Team 254... and there's NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP ME!" It's happened before.) If this happens again and again, I would recommend placing the robot in a cage. A Faraday cage would work fine for this.

All joking aside, excellent electrical board! Nice job. I hope you feel very proud.

I think 254 would be too embarrassed to take in our robot even as their 2,000th foster bot. However we are still quite proud of it....Now lets hope we finish it in time. Again all joking aside Ill bend a piece of lexan in the same shape tomorrow and put in over everything. Then Ill hinge it so its still easy to access. I think that will add enough protection while still not being too intrusive. Thanks for the input.

[Cecil]

Looks good!

I have a few suggestions. Please make sure you insulate the copper terminals coming from the main breaker. You don't want an errant falling tool to short out your nice control board!

Also, make sure the two fuses for your RoboRIO and VRM are seated fully (you shouldn't be able to see any metal on them. You don't want them bouncing out and shutting down your robot in the middle of the match.

Also, forgive me for not being able to see (the picture is just a bit too small to tell) but where is your radio plugged into? I see wires coming out of the 5v 2a port of the voltage regulator module, but they don't seem to match the colors on the radio plug. If it's crimped somewhere in between, ignore this one and carry on!

Other than that, it looks good!

[Sperkowsky]

Looks good!

I have a few suggestions. Please make sure you insulate the copper terminals coming from the main breaker. You don't want an errant falling tool to short out your nice control board!

Also, make sure the two fuses for your RoboRIO and VRM are seated fully (you shouldn't be able to see any metal on them. You don't want them bouncing out and shutting down your robot in the middle of the match.

Also, forgive me for not being able to see (the picture is just a bit too small to tell) but where is your radio plugged into? I see wires coming out of the 5v 2a port of the voltage regulator module, but they don't seem to match the colors on the radio plug. If it's crimped somewhere in between, ignore this one and carry on!

Other than that, it looks good!

Thanks for the suggestions I am really glad to hear some! Ok so as for the fuses your completely right I didnt even notice that. And as for the radio power it is heatshrinked to a new cable. As for the battery terminals how should we insulate it(Sorry for being a noob) but I have no Idea what works. Thanks again!

[Ben Wolsieffer]

Another thing I noticed, is that you might want to change out the connectors on the breaker to crimp ones. The ones you are using are legal, but they have a tendency to vibrate loose over time.

[Sperkowsky]

Another thing I noticed, is that you might want to change out the connectors on the breaker to crimp ones. The ones you are using are legal, but they have a tendency to vibrate loose over time.

Ill check to see on monday if we have any big enough.

[Ben Wolsieffer]

Ill check to see on monday if we have any big enough.

I think we received some in the KOP.

[Cecil]

Thanks for the suggestions I am really glad to hear some! Ok so as for the fuses your completely right I didnt even notice that. And as for the radio power it is heatshrinked to a new cable. As for the battery terminals how should we insulate it(Sorry for being a noob) but I have no Idea what works. Thanks again!

Heat shrink or electrical tape are the easiest ways to insulate them. I think the heat shrink that came in the kit is too small to go over those terminals, but there was plenty of electrical tape supplied.

Another thing I noticed, is that you might want to change out the connectors on the breaker to crimp ones. The ones you are using are legal, but they have a tendency to vibrate loose over time.

I also do agree with this to some extent. They can work loose over time, so if you stick with them, make absolutely sure they are as tight as you can get. If you decide to switch to the crimp ones that came in the kit, they have to be crimped right or they can fall off. We use this crimper (http://www.powerwerx.com/crimping-tools/pp75-sb50-powerpole-crimper.html) and haven't had a problem. We crimp in two places and don't worry about it. If you don't have a crimper that will work on that size terminal, I have heard of teams using a vise to crush them down. Whatever you do, do a pull test on them to make sure they are absolutely secure and won't fall apart during the match.

[evanperryg]

Hello I am from 2869,

Basically last year our electrical guy graduated and when on to M.I.T. We were all very happy for him but it meant we had only one electrical person. The issue is she does not have much free time and only came once maybe twice a week for a few hours. SO me and My friend who's dad is an electrician decided to learn. I had no experience and he had a little but no FRC experience. Basically we learned everything from online in one day. Neither of our mentors know electrical so we were really on our own. So I proudly present what we did. We still have to shorten the Network cable and connect the light and two cameras but that's for final robot assembly. All constructive criticism will be taken but I am still really proud. http://postimg.org/image/u8divpdq7/
http://postimg.org/image/u8divpdq7/ (Not Sure If the Picture Posting Worked)

Just so you know, using that IR controller (or at least using it in-match) is illegal because it counts as an external signal that does not pass through the router. Otherwise, this looks really, really good for your first time! Also, I wouldn't suggest shortening your ethernet cable. Those things can be very, very difficult to crimp, especially if you don't have the right tool.

[Sperkowsky]

Just so you know, using that IR controller (or at least using it in-match) is illegal because it counts as an external signal that does not pass through the router. Otherwise, this looks really, really good for your first time! Also, I wouldn't suggest shortening your ethernet cable. Those things can be very, very difficult to crimp, especially if you don't have the right tool. Do we have to take it off durring the match? OR can we just not use it during the match. Its the led ir reciever and we planned on using it before the match to put the alliance color on. It has built in memory so it remembers what color it was on last. Thanks

[Sperkowsky]

Heat shrink or electrical tape are the easiest ways to insulate them. I think the heat shrink that came in the kit is too small to go over those terminals, but there was plenty of electrical tape supplied.



I also do agree with this to some extent. They can work loose over time, so if you stick with them, make absolutely sure they are as tight as you can get. If you decide to switch to the crimp ones that came in the kit, they have to be crimped right or they can fall off. We use this crimper (http://www.powerwerx.com/crimping-tools/pp75-sb50-powerpole-crimper.html) and haven't had a problem. We crimp in two places and don't worry about it. If you don't have a crimper that will work on that size terminal, I have heard of teams using a vise to crush them down. Whatever you do, do a pull test on them to make sure they are absolutely secure and won't fall apart during the match.

Alright. We have some large heatshrink so we will use this (our goal was to use zero electric tape because last year everything was held in with electric tape and it fell apart completely) as for crimping we have no problem, the "help desk" or it guys at our school use our room sometimes for its tools but they also allow use to us their tools which includes all sorts of industrial grade crimpers. Thanks for the help.

[evanperryg]

Do we have to take it off durring the match? OR can we just not use it during the match. Its the led ir reciever and we planned on using it before the match to put the alliance color on. It has built in memory so it remembers what color it was on last. Thanks
I'm really not sure. It might vary from inspector to inspector or event to event, but I'd bet you could get away with covering the receiver during matches.

[BitTwiddler]

I'm not 100% sure but it appears your PWM connectors are plugged in backwards. If I recall correctly the black wire of each connector should be toward the outside of the RoboRIO.
Nice wire routing work though at times you may regret using all of those tie-wraps when changes need to be made.
You can help wire our team's robot anytime.

[Sperkowsky]

I'm not 100% sure but it appears your PWM connectors are plugged in backwards. If I recall correctly the black wire of each connector should be toward the outside of the RoboRIO.
Nice wire routing work though at times you may regret using all of those tie-wraps when changes need to be made.
You can help wire our team's robot anytime.

Im not sure if its the right way but whatever its an easy fix. Thanks

[Pretzel]

It looks nice for your first ever electrical panel! My only recommendation, and this is purely aesthetic, would be to look into the possibility of using zip-ties to secure the wires leading from the PDB to the Talons down to the board in a similar fashion to how your PWM cables are fashioned. It's a minor thing that could help clean up the appearance of the board just that little bit extra without making the panel unserviceable.

One minor thing that would make it easier to use at competitions is the orientation of your router. I'm not quite sure how much clearance you have between your main disconnect (power switch) and your open ethernet ports. Since you have to tether to your robot at competition when you're not on the field, I would double check that you have enough room to comfortably plug an ethernet cable into the currently unused ports. If not, you may want to see if you have enough length on your cables to flip the router around 180* to make tethering to the robot easier.

Overall though I think it's a very nice job! A lot of robots show up to competition with what my team has dubbed "spaghetti monster" wiring that kind of goes all over the place. This wiring is well organized into little "highways" of sorts such that all your wires are routed along one main loop between components, and it really make the wiring look a lot cleaner than it would otherwise!

Good luck at the competition!

[Sperkowsky]

It looks nice for your first ever electrical panel! My only recommendation, and this is purely aesthetic, would be to look into the possibility of using zip-ties to secure the wires leading from the PDB to the Talons down to the board in a similar fashion to how your PWM cables are fashioned. It's a minor thing that could help clean up the appearance of the board just that little bit extra without making the panel unserviceable.

One minor thing that would make it easier to use at competitions is the orientation of your router. I'm not quite sure how much clearance you have between your main disconnect (power switch) and your open ethernet ports. Since you have to tether to your robot at competition when you're not on the field, I would double check that you have enough room to comfortably plug an ethernet cable into the currently unused ports. If not, you may want to see if you have enough length on your cables to flip the router around 180* to make tethering to the robot easier.

Overall though I think it's a very nice job! A lot of robots show up to competition with what my team has dubbed "spaghetti monster" wiring that kind of goes all over the place. This wiring is well organized into little "highways" of sorts such that all your wires are routed along one main loop between components, and it really make the wiring look a lot cleaner than it would otherwise!

Good luck at the competition!
Thanks I will zip tie the talon wires as much as possible. As for the router there's really no way to put it anywhere else but I tested it and everything can comfortably connect to it. Thanks again

[jvriezen]

I think 254 would be too embarrassed to take in our robot even as their 2,000th foster bot. However we are still quite proud of it....Now lets hope we finish it in time. Again all joking aside Ill bend a piece of lexan in the same shape tomorrow and put in over everything. Then Ill hinge it so its still easy to access. I think that will add enough protection while still not being too intrusive. Thanks for the input.

I believe your main breaker needs to be accessible without having to remove or open any hinged cover. Its not clear if this is what you meant or not. You can put a hole in the Lexan cover that will allow a hand/finger to get in to push the main breaker button. (just make sure the hole is small enough to not a allow a tote or bin through it :-) )

[MrRoboSteve]

A couple notes I see:

Radio: good location. Can't quite tell from photo whether the other Ethernet ports on the radio are accessible -- you should set it up so that you can tether your driver station to the radio, not to the roboRIO. It's cheaper/easier to replace the radio when someone trips over your tether.

Use electrical tape to fasten the barrel connector into the radio. They occasionally come out.

Most teams use Velcro to attach the radio to the board -- easier to remove the radio and take it to the programming station at competitions. We mount ours with the white side to the robot. Use a sharpie and write your team number and 2015 on the radio and your roboRIO. Do not cover up the label on the radio that indicates the model and version number -- needs to be visible for inspection purposes.

If you make a short cat5/6 cable, be sure you're using stranded and not solid wire (more reliable). Personally I'd buy one rather than making it.

You'll want your vertical board fairly rigid if you're going to have the navX installed in that location.

Be sure you have good tie down locations for the load side wiring on your speed controllers -- not a lot of room in the photo you're showing. You'll want to both make those wires into bundles and have them tied down within a couple inches of the controller -- the screw terminals tend to work themselves loose.

[Alan Anderson]

The NavX doesn't want to be in that orientation. It's programmed to assume it's mounted flat.

[Sperkowsky]

The NavX doesn't want to be in that orientation. It's programmed to assume it's mounted flat.
We aren't using it anyway haha we just didn't bother taking it off.

[Sperkowsky]

A couple notes I see:

Radio: good location. Can't quite tell from photo whether the other Ethernet ports on the radio are accessible -- you should set it up so that you can tether your driver station to the radio, not to the roboRIO. It's cheaper/easier to replace the radio when someone trips over your tether.

Use electrical tape to fasten the barrel connector into the radio. They occasionally come out.

Most teams use Velcro to attach the radio to the board -- easier to remove the radio and take it to the programming station at competitions. We mount ours with the white side to the robot. Use a sharpie and write your team number and 2015 on the radio and your roboRIO. Do not cover up the label on the radio that indicates the model and version number -- needs to be visible for inspection purposes.

If you make a short cat5/6 cable, be sure you're using stranded and not solid wire (more reliable). Personally I'd buy one rather than making it.

You'll want your vertical board fairly rigid if you're going to have the navX installed in that location.

Be sure you have good tie down locations for the load side wiring on your speed controllers -- not a lot of room in the photo you're showing. You'll want to both make those wires into bundles and have them tied down within a couple inches of the controller -- the screw terminals tend to work themselves loose.
Thanks we were out of Velcro and did what we could the other side an be taken off pretty quickly tho because it's just tie wire that's heatshrinked. Thanks again Ill take all that into consideration.

[BitTwiddler]

Thanks we were out of Velcro and did what we could the other side an be taken off pretty quickly tho because it's just tie wire that's heatshrinked. Thanks again Ill take all that into consideration.

The mushroom style tape that 3M provided in this year's KOP works well in holding down our router. Our's sits right on top of our electronics box and doesn't budge an inch despite some rather aggressive driving maneuvers experienced during testing.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Nice job!
I agree with...
I'd say y'all did pretty good from the looks of it! Just make sure that the main breaker is always easily accessible from the outside of the bot!

As to the screw type of connectors, the most often made mistake with these is not stripping enough insulation from the wire. These terminals want some copper to extend through the terminal and out the other side before tightening the clamp. If wire strands ride up the threads, they are not conducting current. Most electrical suppliers, (Home Depot included) will have terminals that do not use a screw against the wire for clamp. Those terminals are meant for large diameter strands and solid wire. The type that uses the screw to push on a metal clamp work better for fine stranded cables.

[Sperkowsky]

The mushroom style tape that 3M provided in this year's KOP works well in holding down our router. Our's sits right on top of our electronics box and doesn't budge an inch despite some rather aggressive driving maneuvers experienced during testing.
Yes that may have been the batter way but oh well we learned. We did do it the more secure way so atleast we know it's not going to fall out :).

[Sperkowsky]

Nice job!
I agree with...
I'd say y'all did pretty good from the looks of it! Just make sure that the main breaker is always easily accessible from the outside of the bot!

As to the screw type of connectors, the most often made mistake with these is not stripping enough insulation from the wire. These terminals want some copper to extend through the terminal and out the other side before tightening the clamp. If wire strands ride up the threads, they are not conducting current. Most electrical suppliers, (Home Depot included) will have terminals that do not use a screw against the wire for clamp. Those terminals are meant for large diameter strands and solid wire. The type that uses the screw to push on a metal clamp work better for fine stranded cables.
Alright thanks for the advice.

Do you think making a lexan cover and cutting a hole in it for the breaker Is good.

[EricH]

Do you think making a lexan cover and cutting a hole in it for the breaker Is good.

Yep. Just make sure it's a nice big hole, preferably marked.

Here's a guideline: If your robot were going crazy and charging your family, could you hit the button before it got there? If the answer is "no", make a bigger hole.