View Full Version : Team 1114 - Simbot SideSwipe
For those who are interested, here's out 2015 robot, Simbot SideSwipe:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/s960x960/10926287_1021645211183370_51959902006131407_o.jpg
We'll see you at GTR Central, Waterloo, and the Windsor-Essex Great Lakes Regionals!
thatprogrammer
03-03-2015, 17:08
My joke about someone making a robot that looks like a crab came true....
Am I right in assuming that the totes are sucked in, before being pushed up a crazy fast elevator? :O
Very nice looking machine. Are you going to be posting a facts sheet for the robot soon?
Andrew Lawrence
03-03-2015, 17:14
I don't know what to be scared of more - this beautiful robot, or the fact that y'all had time to powdercoat the entire thing this year.
thinker&planner
03-03-2015, 17:16
Finally!
We have also joked about our robot's intakes looking like crab claws, and thus they are now officially deemed "the crabs."
smistthegreat
03-03-2015, 17:20
I don't know if it's the camera angle or just the new sizing rules, but this robot looks absolutely huge.
AdamHeard
03-03-2015, 17:21
I don't know if it's the camera angle or just the new sizing rules, but this robot looks absolutely huge.
I have a hunch the elevator rotates or removes, and the robot is stored vertically on the cart.
sviera88
03-03-2015, 17:23
Awesome looking robot, but why isn't it called "Mr. Krabs"!?!
smistthegreat
03-03-2015, 17:24
I have a hunch the elevator rotates or removes, and the robot is stored vertically on the cart.
That could definitely explain why the supports for the mast aren't attached in this photo.
Kyler Hagler
03-03-2015, 17:26
Oh my... I cant wait to see it in action. I have a feeling this thing will stun us all when it hits the field. Another great robot from 1114! #TeamIFI
JohnFogarty
03-03-2015, 17:26
That robot is a crab, and you can't convince me otherwise. Looking forward to seeing how it works.
Wow - that's one fancy robot! How is that elevator driven? What's on the sides?
I can't wait to watch this robot compete this weekend.
Anupam Goli
03-03-2015, 17:32
I spy with my little eyes, omni wheels placed at different angles. Interesting drivetrain choice.
Edit: Is it just me, or do those wheel modules look like they rotate as well? ;)
Jacob Bendicksen
03-03-2015, 17:36
Wow...this thing is just beautiful. Are some pieces missing? It seems odd to have a pretty thin support for a whole stack of totes - I'd expect to see supports on the sides, as well.
MrForbes
03-03-2015, 17:37
Beautiful! My wild guess is that the tall lift only lifts the container, and the totes are stacked and supported by the bottom.
Wow...this thing is just beautiful. Are some pieces missing? It seems odd to have a pretty thin support for a whole stack of totes - I'd expect to see supports on the sides, as well.
I spy some chain loops in the side towers. My guess is that these have hooks on them which work in conjunction with the pneumatic latches to stack totes, and the claw (typically with container in it) is used to provide downwards stabilizing pressure.
Clever design if so. A lot of the chain conveyor based designs have problems with sagging, but doing it on each side of the tote fixes this.
Still something odd going on in the back. Container grabber, maybe?
Also, that roller intake looks like it's been through a LOT of prototype iterations. I'm guessing that the performance of this will play a huge part in setting this machine apart.
JohnSchneider
03-03-2015, 17:48
Wheres the auto bin grabber? ::eek::
I think you forgot a wheel.
wireties
03-03-2015, 18:14
Nice looking machine! No doubt it performs even better than it looks - best of luck! #TeamIFI
Holtzman
03-03-2015, 19:10
I think you forgot a wheel.
I think they forgot 3.
Kevin Leonard
03-03-2015, 19:28
Alright theres the first robot, where are the other two?
Y'all gotta keep up with your southern IFI companions
The other Gabe
03-03-2015, 20:55
you missed the chance to call it Mr. Krabs :(
Good luck, hopefully we see each other at Worlds :P
Dave McLaughlin
03-03-2015, 23:09
http://i.imgur.com/8FMMHfm.png
s_forbes
03-03-2015, 23:59
http://i.imgur.com/a1fakSR.gif
Mysterious lift structure... is there no chain or belt to move the bin claw from the bottom to the top?
Dave McLaughlin
04-03-2015, 00:02
Mysterious lift structure... is there no chain or belt to move the bin claw from the bottom to the top?
My guess is that the can stabilizer claw is on a passive trolley and moves up the rails as a stack of totes is built under it.
Looks like those weighted decision matrices finally spewed out something that is not "tank drive" for 1114.
I didn't think I'd see the day this would happen. Incredible.
cadandcookies
04-03-2015, 00:28
I really hope that's the kiwi drive it looks like.
Whoa, color-coded pneumatics that match the color scheme (red for "pull" and black for "push"). No detail too small. Can't wait to see it in action!
waialua359
04-03-2015, 02:50
Word on the "street" was that you folks went holonomic.
They werent kidding!
Beautiful robot as always, and I bet it'll perform as such.
I really hope that's the kiwi drive it looks like.
crab drive maybe?
Joe Johnson
04-03-2015, 12:50
Not to put too fine a point on it, but they seem to have made a similar trade offs to another team I'm familiar with (cough, cough, Overclocked, cough cough (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135159&highlight=scorpion))
Specifically, large wheel base 3 Wheel Drive with the ability to go in all directions. I haven't seen them in transport configuration but I suppose the right and left wheel modules fold back behind their tower. Am I right or am I crazy?
In any case, it looks like another beautiful robot from a FIRST team with a history of making great robots. Well done.
Cheers,
Joe J.
llamadon
04-03-2015, 15:25
http://i.imgur.com/8FMMHfm.png
Who needs #teamtether when you have...
Chris Hibner
04-03-2015, 15:48
crab drive maybe?
They posted a picture of a new cart they designed for this robot, and it had pronounced walls on the side of of the cart. We once designed a robot with an H-drive and one of the first things we found out is that the robot wanted to roll off the cart so we had to add walls to the cart to keep that from happening. So my bet is on something with omni wheels.
Just watched a practice match.
This machine is incredibly fast at stacking from the landfill.
Also looks like there's a container grabber on the back, if I'm not mistaken.
microbuns
05-03-2015, 13:29
Oh my... Just watched one of 1114's practice matches - crazy. They got 2 capped six stacks out of the landfill with plenty of time to kill. If they aren't going to do anything else, I can see them easily getting 3 capped 6 stacks consistently.
Batterink
05-03-2015, 13:32
It appeared to me that they put some sort of device near the chute door. It fell down during auto, but I wonder if that was part of their plan for post landfill.
cmrnpizzo14
05-03-2015, 13:35
Video anywhere?
EDIT: Rewound the livestream and got it. Wow, they are quick.
Did anyone else see that they were rotating the bins upright from the floor. Any ideas how they are doing that?
http://new.livestream.com/WatchFIRSTNow/events/3839990
Their practice match starts at 44:45 and is very impressive - they score 98 points by themselves in their first match.
FIMAlumni
05-03-2015, 14:25
They're up again right now starting any second on the live stream.
Dan Petrovic
05-03-2015, 14:33
They're up again right now starting any second on the live stream.
What did I just watch? :ahh:
1114 just scored 126 points by themselves...
OWilliamson
05-03-2015, 14:35
They're up again right now starting any second on the live stream.
That was very impressive, I'm currently picking my jaw up off of the ground :eek:
With a bit more practice, I think they can do 4x 6-stack with container.
They did 3x 6stack, 2 of them with litter, plus a 1tote,1container stack.
Matt_Boehm_329
05-03-2015, 14:35
Wow. That's fancy. What is it about 2 seconds per tote? Nice job 1114
1114 just scored 126 points by themselves...
Being totally fair, I think 4343 *did* put the litter in the 3rd recycle bin that 1114 picked up.
Peyton Yeung
05-03-2015, 14:37
2x 6 tote stacks with bin in 60 seconds is pretty fast.
DanielPlotas
05-03-2015, 14:38
With a bit more practice, I think they can do 4x 6-stack with container.
They did 3x 6stack, 2 of them with litter, plus a 1tote,1container stack.
Where would they get the other six totes? It doesn't look like they can stack upside down totes, or stack efficiently from the tote chute.
BrennanB
05-03-2015, 14:38
With a bit more practice, I think they can do 4x 6-stack with container.
They did 3x 6stack, 2 of them with litter, plus a 1tote,1container stack.
One could say they are just warming up.
1114 just scored 126 points by themselves...
And had 30 seconds on the clock after dropping off the 3rd 6-stack...
Where would they get the other six totes? It doesn't look like they can stack upside down totes, or stack efficiently from the tote chute.
Did you not see them flipping the recycle containers upright? I wouldn't be surprised if later in the season we see them flipping those upside down totes. Alternatively, their alliance mates could get 6 more out of the chute for them while they're stacking the first 18.
Connor Mulkey
05-03-2015, 14:43
You guys devour that landfill, and the speed at which you right the containers is impressive. So fun to watch.
The more I think about it:
I've watched 1114 dominate year in and year out for 13 years now.
I would find it highly suspect if they hadn't examined the ability to right those upside down containers or stack them as-is, given their demonstrated prowess at eliminating the first 18 right-side-up ones.
They'd have to know that to beat the best of the best at championship that 3x 6stacks won't be enough. There will be several teams by champs that can do what 1114 just did. Karthik has routinely stated that 1114 doesn't build robots to win regionals, they build robots to win Championship.
There's a bin-flipper or upside-down-bin-stacker in Sideswipe somewhere. Or at the very least, a plan to add one.
bharrison6
05-03-2015, 15:02
Anyone know what that big aluminum structure is that they put on the field by the alliance station?
The more I think about it:
I've watched 1114 dominate year in and year out for 13 years now.
I would find it highly suspect if they hadn't examined the ability to right those upside down containers or stack them as-is, given their demonstrated prowess at eliminating the first 18 right-side-up ones.
They'd have to know that to beat the best of the best at championship that 3x 6stacks won't be enough. There will be several teams by champs that can do what 1114 just did. Karthik has routinely stated that 1114 doesn't build robots to win regionals, they build robots to win Championship.
There's a bin-flipper or upside-down-bin-stacker in Sideswipe somewhere. Or at the very least, a plan to add one.
There's zero benefit to the upside down totes in the landfill come champs elims. Get the 4 cans off the step and you don't need to touch them at all. Don't get the 4 cans off the step and you can't win even with the upside down ones.
If you can make 3 capped and noodled stacks of 6 you've done exactly enough to win championships...as long as you can acquire those 4 bins.
But keep watching...they had a device they tried to use that would make a line of totes for them to gobble up at the HP station.
DanielPlotas
05-03-2015, 15:08
Did you not see them flipping the recycle containers upright? I wouldn't be surprised if later in the season we see them flipping those upside down totes. Alternatively, their alliance mates could get 6 more out of the chute for them while they're stacking the first 18.
I totally agree with you, but you said with more practice, i.e. tomorrow/saturday.
Electronica1
05-03-2015, 15:12
Just watched the practice match after hunting around in the stream. That was probably the coolest thing I have seen so far this year. Their amazing stack system plus their great driving has made this my favorite robot so far.
Just saw the human player tether bot, love it :D
BrennanB
05-03-2015, 15:19
There's a bin-flipper or upside-down-bin-stacker in Sideswipe somewhere. Or at the very least, a plan to add one.
Like their 2013 floor pickup (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114678&page=2).
Robots don't need to do everything to win world championships. :)
martin417
05-03-2015, 15:27
Just watched the practice match after hunting around in the stream. That was probably the coolest thing I have seen so far this year. Their amazing stack system plus their great driving has made this my favorite robot so far.
What match number was it?
The chute thingy must potentially attach to an alliance partner for regulation play, right? It doesn't tether to them or anything from what I can see on the webcast.
Electronica1
05-03-2015, 15:29
What match number was it?
Well, the human player thing was around 1:31:00 ish. And the match they put up a ton of points was around 0:38:00 ish.
prismiko
05-03-2015, 15:29
Anyone know what that big aluminum structure is that they put on the field by the alliance station?
It's a ramp to load the totes. Is it tethered to the robot?
George Nishimura
05-03-2015, 15:30
There's zero benefit to the upside down totes in the landfill come champs elims. Get the 4 cans off the step and you don't need to touch them at all. Don't get the 4 cans off the step and you can't win even with the upside down ones.
If you can make 3 capped and noodled stacks of 6 you've done exactly enough to win championships...as long as you can acquire those 4 bins.
But keep watching...they had a device they tried to use that would make a line of totes for them to gobble up at the HP station.
What happens if both alliances get two bins off the step? Or do you envision that as unlikely?
Watching the livestream, 1114's robot, even at practice matches on Day 1, looks to be playing beautifully. And the HP contraption, regardless of whether it continues to work, is brilliant out-of-the-box thinking.
waialua359
05-03-2015, 15:31
Just watched a match doing 3 capped stacks using both landfill and feeder station.
This by far is the best robot I've seen in 2015. Chances are it wont change even after everyone else unveils/plays this season.
Peyton Yeung
05-03-2015, 15:36
What match number was it?
17 i believe
What happens if both alliances get two bins off the step? Or do you envision that as unlikely?
Watching the livestream, 1114's robot, even at practice matches on Day 1, looks to be playing beautifully. And the HP contraption, regardless of whether it continues to work, is brilliant out-of-the-box thinking.
There's 8 stacks worth of upright totes in the landfill and the human loading station. Hard to imagine depleting all those regardless of your can situation.
There's zero benefit to the upside down totes in the landfill come champs elims. Get the 4 cans off the step and you don't need to touch them at all. Don't get the 4 cans off the step and you can't win even with the upside down ones.
If you can make 3 capped and noodled stacks of 6 you've done exactly enough to win championships...as long as you can acquire those 4 bins.
But keep watching...they had a device they tried to use that would make a line of totes for them to gobble up at the HP station.
By my count: There is 245 points you cannot defend against.
3 capped and noodled stacks of 6 ((6x2 totes x 3) + (6x4 container x3) + (6 noodle x3)) = 126
20 pts stacked autoset + 8 point container set + 4 point robot set = 32
10 inverted totes put in scoring position = 20 points
30 alliance wall totes in scoring position = 60 points
7 remaining litter in LANDFILL = 7
126+32+20+60+7 = 245.
245 is the max other alliance score if you don't let the other alliance have any of the 4 step recycling bins or any of the 12 step totes.
If you only take the 4 bins, you leave a max possible of 269 (another 24 tote points possible).
6x capped and littered 6stacks = 256
CTbiker105
05-03-2015, 17:04
205 is the max other alliance score if you don't let the other alliance have any of the 4 step recycling bins or any of the 12 step totes.
If you only take the 4 bins, you leave a max possible of 229 (another 24 tote points possible).
It's odd to think the maximum score possible is set by the amount of game pieces available in a match.
Whereas last year, the maximum score was only limited by the speed at which teams could score the ball.
Speed is still a factor in positively outscoring your opponent, but only to a certain degree.
thatprogrammer
05-03-2015, 18:06
Any videos of them? Stream seems to be down.
It's a ramp to load the totes. Is it tethered to the robot?
I sure didn't see a tether the one time I saw the ramp being used. It appears to be a passive ramp, so if the tether is necessary for the sake of rules it probably isn't very big.
Who needs #teamtether when you have...
#teamnotether ?
The chute thingy must potentially attach to an alliance partner for regulation play, right? It doesn't tether to them or anything from what I can see on the webcast.
If it tethered to another alliance member, that alliance member would have to at least get weighed and possibly get inspected with the chute attached.
This robot is the real deal.
Can anyone link to a video of it in action? The link earlier in the thread doesn't have any archived videos of the matches yet.
The ramp is simply a hopper its long enough to have 4 totes at the ready and the hp simply tops it up until they have 6. It allows them to intake 6 totes in 12 seconds with the limiting factor being the speed that the totes slide down the ramp. Completely passive, weighs barely anything, it's attached by some orange string.
So far this robot is too small and cute to be terrifying, but do not be fooled.
This robot is the real deal.
Can anyone link to a video of it in action? The link earlier in the thread doesn't have any archived videos of the matches yet.
Here's a bit of a practice match I was capable of taking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emDUF6HXG6U
Here's one I found courtesy of Brennan Bibic from 4476:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFPITcD6Sos
Here's a bit of a practice match I was capable of taking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emDUF6HXG6U
Here's one I found courtesy of Brennan Bibic from 4476:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFPITcD6Sos
Thanks! Couldn't see much in terms of the ramp that I keep hearing about but I understand the gist of it. Their landfill stacking is extremely impressive - wow.
Mike Marandola
05-03-2015, 23:12
Here's a bit of a practice match I was capable of taking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emDUF6HXG6U
Here's one I found courtesy of Brennan Bibic from 4476:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFPITcD6Sos
That is incredible. :yikes:
Thanks! Couldn't see much in terms of the ramp that I keep hearing about but I understand the gist of it. Their landfill stacking is extremely impressive - wow.
There isn't much to talk about regarding the ramp. I think that you can kind of see it at Red's left feeder station in the second video. The few matches I caught, they never used it and they even bumped into it once rendering it useless. I talked to one of their members afterwards, and it appears that it is there to help alliance members feed from the station as if they are feeding from the landfill.
This robot is the real deal.
Team to beat at GTRC. They'll immediately be tested by 4001 and 3360 in match 1 too.
Scott Kozutsky
06-03-2015, 00:08
The thing that surprises me the most is how effective the kiwi drive is. I hadn't considered how beneficial 3 points of contact would be. they can basically just drive anywhere.
cadandcookies
06-03-2015, 00:11
The thing that surprises me the most is how effective the kiwi drive is. I hadn't considered how beneficial 3 points of contact would be. they can basically just drive anywhere.
It makes me so happy that there's a kiwi on what is probably one of, if not the best robots in the world now.
Brandon Holley
06-03-2015, 00:14
15 years of doing FRC, and every year there is still an "OH SH*T" moment of an awe inspiring robot.
Thanks for this year's version, 1114.
-Brando
PayneTrain
06-03-2015, 00:22
I'm only a fangirl over 4039 and can be pretty needlessly critical and always willing to shut down a bandwagon.
So when I say that if any robot, if perfectly executed, could easily 1-man BTFO an entire regional, it'a 1114 at GTRC. Pick 1310 to get the other 3-tote auto off the board and they could probably get through to finals until they needed a 2nd, much less third robot if they perfectly executed. That being said, I don't expect that to actually happen. Just saying I think it could happen.
When 1114 is ready enough to powdercoat the whole robot, people should rightly be terrified.
:26 seconds to stack 6+RC and score IMPRESSIVE! I think that's faster than 118.
One has to wonder though the video started at :55 so what were they doing the other :80 seconds? I did not see more than one existing 6stack + RC making it slower than 118??
They should have had more based on that video and :26 second stacks? At least another stack based on the stack built speed.
Love the design and intake though and the color!
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153197801239444&pnref=story
Richard Wallace
06-03-2015, 07:53
I should have been a pair of ragged claws. Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.
Nathan Streeter
06-03-2015, 08:21
Absolutely fabulous robot! The only other team that seems to be able to put up as many game pieces is 148... and 1114 presents the freedom of gathering from the landfill or from the HP station.
So glad to see 1114 come out of the gate setting the bar incredibly high, particularly after last year's slow start (for 1114 standards).
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153197801239444&pnref=story
And your video is the reason I saw their step grabber.... Man... and to think they didn't have one! lol
thatprogrammer
06-03-2015, 13:46
How do they flip the RC's that are tipped? Livestream is too low-quality to make this out.
How do they flip the RC's that are tipped? Livestream is too low-quality to make this out.
To me, looks like they use the two sets of wheels (front and back) to suck in the RC, then flip it upright.
thatprogrammer
06-03-2015, 13:52
To me, looks like they use the two sets of wheels (front and back) to suck in the RC, then flip it upright.
Yeah, I get that part. I'm confused by what they're using TO flip them. It happens so fast... like magic :O
waialua359
06-03-2015, 14:03
Yeah, I get that part. I'm confused by what they're using TO flip them. It happens so fast... like magic :O
I was assuming that in the act of sucking the RC in, it pivots at the stop on the bottom of the RC causing it to move upward.
pntbll1313
06-03-2015, 14:14
Yeah, I get that part. I'm confused by what they're using TO flip them. It happens so fast... like magic :O
Yep, confirmed it's magic. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emDUF6HXG6U&t=0m46s)
audietron
06-03-2015, 16:02
Yeah, I get that part. I'm confused by what they're using TO flip them. It happens so fast... like magic :O
Possibly they pull it in and catch the bottom to tip it up. Using the polycarb pieces they have in the front of the robot. I believe they added them after the original picture was taken.
How do they flip the RC's that are tipped? Livestream is too low-quality to make this out.
I'll take a close up picture of it today.
orangemoore
07-03-2015, 10:43
Simbotics has a Qualification average 142.9 while 2nd place has an average of 73.6...
Doug Frisk
07-03-2015, 14:46
Yeah, I get that part. I'm confused by what they're using TO flip them. It happens so fast... like magic :O
I think they're moving the "lift belts" on the side downward which pushes the back of the can down while the wheels pull the container in.
Kyle_1881
07-03-2015, 14:58
Does anyone know how simbots ramp is tethered in the GTC Regional?
Dave McLaughlin
07-03-2015, 15:23
Does anyone know how simbots ramp is tethered in the GTC Regional?
Uhhh... Strap?
JamesBrown
07-03-2015, 15:40
Does anyone know how simbots ramp is tethered in the GTC Regional?
In eliminations it has been tethered to 1547. Before the first final you could see a member of 1114 set up the ramp then lay out a cord of some sort along the back wall, then the 1547 drivers connected a cord /cable from their bot to the one 1114 ran. Not a bad strategy, assuming 1547 was under weight.
I posted in the regional thread as well, but the other alliance having a team disabled in the finals for not being brought on field in the transport configuration made me wonder how this strategy is legal. 1114 clearly carried the ramp on the field independent from any robot, and then connected it to the 1547 bot once on the field. Doesn't this violate the transport configuration rules?
In eliminations it has been tethered to 1547. Before the first final you could see a member of 1114 set up the ramp then lay out a cord of some sort along the back wall, then the 1547 drivers connected a cord /cable from their bot to the one 1114 ran. Not a bad strategy, assuming 1547 was under weight.
So was 1547 not moving on purpose? Was their only role to hold the ramp with some string?
Or is their lack of movement something else
JamesBrown
07-03-2015, 16:22
So was 1547 not moving on purpose? Was their only role to hold the ramp with some string?
Or is their lack of movement something else
According to the Webcast chat it was strategy, but I would wait to hear from the teams to be sure.
I posted in the regional thread as well, but the other alliance having a team disabled in the finals for not being brought on field in the transport configuration made me wonder how this strategy is legal. 1114 clearly carried the ramp on the field independent from any robot, and then connected it to the 1547 bot once on the field. Doesn't this violate the transport configuration rules?
2994 was disabled for extending into the landfill without a quick fix being possible (if they had moved back they would have been in auto zone).
We were instructed since Thursday to extend out of transportation configuration in queue as long as it was safe. That wasn't why they were disabled.
JamesBrown
07-03-2015, 16:32
We were instructed since Thursday to extend out of transportation configuration in queue as long as it was safe. That wasn't why they were disabled.
Can't say I like this provision, but Thanks for the info, I found it hard to believe it would have been an oversight by 1114.
Navid Shafa
07-03-2015, 16:36
We were instructed since Thursday to extend out of transportation configuration in queue as long as it was safe. That wasn't why they were disabled.
Can't say I like this provision, but Thanks for the info, I found it hard to believe it would have been an oversight by 1114.
It seems to be coming a more and more common provision.
NatashaWhyte
07-03-2015, 21:31
In eliminations it has been tethered to 1547. Before the first final you could see a member of 1114 set up the ramp then lay out a cord of some sort along the back wall, then the 1547 drivers connected a cord /cable from their bot to the one 1114 ran. Not a bad strategy, assuming 1547 was under weight.
I posted in the regional thread as well, but the other alliance having a team disabled in the finals for not being brought on field in the transport configuration made me wonder how this strategy is legal. 1114 clearly carried the ramp on the field independent from any robot, and then connected it to the 1547 bot once on the field. Doesn't this violate the transport configuration rules?
I addressed the concerns of our strategy in this thread here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135429&page=3
Stephen Liggett
14-03-2015, 15:30
Yep, confirmed it's magic. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emDUF6HXG6U&t=0m46s)
I have watched a every 1114 match closely. I still cannot see exactly how the RC's stand up watch this! (https://youtu.be/r7-NigYFrWo?t=2m). I assume that it is a combination of the intake wheels, the conveyor lift and the central claw as a pivot point. Can someone explain how this works?
The other thing that amazes me about this robot is the way the RC is so stable in the center claw while 6 totes high and then simply slides out when scoring. See here. (https://youtu.be/r7-NigYFrWo?t=50s) Are the black pads on the central claw active?
DanielPlotas
14-03-2015, 16:06
I have watched a every 1114 match closely. I still cannot see exactly how the RC's stand up watch this! (https://youtu.be/r7-NigYFrWo?t=2m). I assume that it is a combination of the intake wheels, the conveyor lift and the central claw as a pivot point. Can someone explain how this works?
Theres a black thing that comes down when they go for RC's, which you can see here (https://youtu.be/r7-NigYFrWo?t=1m57s), which may have something to do with righting the can when they retract.
Theres a black thing that comes down when they go for RC's, which you can see here (https://youtu.be/r7-NigYFrWo?t=1m57s), which may have something to do with righting the can when they retract.
Oh, maybe they harvest the RCs into that black thing, which catches on the bottom of the container, forcing it to right itself as the intake runs. That's my best guess.
Oh, maybe they harvest the RCs into that black thing, which catches on the bottom of the container, forcing it to right itself as the intake runs. That's my best guess.
From talking to them and seeing it in action, that is the case. It's apparently called "The Boot" :p .
akoscielski3
03-12-2015, 22:50
We have added the CAD file of Simbot Sideswipe to our list of resources on our website.
HERE (http://www.simbotics.org/resources/cad) is a link to the CAD webpage.
We have also included a render of the robot, the engineering book, and the display board found at championships.
orangemoore
03-12-2015, 22:52
We have added the CAD file of Simbot Sideswipe to our list of resources on our website.
HERE (http://www.simbotics.org/resources/cad) is a link to the CAD webpage.
We have also included a render of the robot, the design book, and the display board found at championships.
Yay!
EDIT:
The engineering notebook link appears to be broken.
akoscielski3
03-12-2015, 23:05
Yay!
EDIT:
The engineering notebook link appears to be broken.
Thank you, we're trying to fix this. Hopefully will work soon.
Rachel Lim
04-12-2015, 00:46
Thank you, we're trying to fix this. Hopefully will work soon.
It's working for me now. Thank you so much for releasing these. They're amazing resources, and I'll definitely be spending a lot of time looking through them.
How did 1114 settle on its unusual intake geometry during prototyping?
Monochron
04-12-2015, 09:35
How did 1114 settle on its unusual intake geometry during prototyping?
I'm interested in this too. It kind of seems like all these great ideas were the first things you all thought to prototype which, if true, is really impressive.
How did 1114 settle on its unusual intake geometry during prototyping?
I'm interested in this too. It kind of seems like all these great ideas were the first things you all thought to prototype which, if true, is really impressive.
The intake prototype happened on the first Monday of build season. We'll get some video uploaded to YouTube this weekend so you can see how it all came together.
The intake prototype happened on the first Monday of build season. We'll get some video uploaded to YouTube this weekend so you can see how it all came together.
Here's the video of our initial intake prototype. You'll notice the rudimentary nature of the setup; it's built with cupboard doors, old intake wheels, hand drills, and two old four caster carts.
https://youtu.be/jH4n1X1Oz7c
MooreteP
05-12-2015, 12:31
Wow, that was quick. You have great people working with you.
We are going to show this at our next team meeting as we prepare for the new challenge.
This is a great example of prototyping that will be relevant for the students who worked on last years game.
I can't thank you enough for the resources that Simbotics provides to help make our team better.
Darkseer54
05-12-2015, 14:19
Is there any reason that you decided to use banebot wheels over the blue urethane wheels on the final robot?
akoscielski3
05-12-2015, 14:48
Is there any reason that you decided to use banebot wheels over the blue urethane wheels on the final robot?
We used many different wheels while prototyping. With the Banebot wheels we were able to intake almost any tote, in any orientation. We even had it picking up a tote that was almost completely sideways (from what our normal orientation for totes was). The only downside was that the orange rubber would wear out pretty quickly. I believe we ended up changing them almost everyday during competition.
The blue wheels were not as effective, however they did not wear out as quickly. They were still pretty good though. We used the blue urethane wheels on our practice bot because they didn't wear out, and we wouldn't have to change them. It also made our driver try and drive with intakes that weren't as good as the competition ones, making him struggle a bit and make sure he lined up with the totes properly.
For our team we will use what ever the best option is, no matter what colour it is, or if it takes a little more work to maintain the robot.
Here's the video of our initial intake prototype. You'll notice the rudimentary nature of the setup; it's built with cupboard doors, old intake wheels, hand drills, and two old four caster carts.
https://youtu.be/jH4n1X1Oz7c
Very cool. Were there other approaches to intaking before this prototype? Any chance of more videos being uploaded?
Is there any reason that you decided to use banebot wheels over the blue urethane wheels on the final robot?
In addition to the reasons that Aaron mentioned, the Banebot wheels were considerably lighter than the blue urethane wheels.
Darkseer54
05-12-2015, 18:14
We used many different wheels while prototyping. With the Banebot wheels we were able to intake almost any tote, in any orientation. We even had it picking up a tote that was almost completely sideways (from what our normal orientation for totes was). The only downside was that the orange rubber would wear out pretty quickly. I believe we ended up changing them almost everyday during competition..
Any reason as to why the banebot wheels were able to pick them up better? Did they just have better traction, or was there too much compression on the urethane wheels? Was it some other factor?
EDIT: I've been informed it was most likely the difference in durometer.
Chris is me
06-12-2015, 10:31
Any reason as to why the banebot wheels were able to pick them up better? Did they just have better traction, or was there too much compression on the urethane wheels? Was it some other factor?
EDIT: I've been informed it was most likely the difference in durameter.
disclaimer: i'm not 1114, i just played with intakes for six weeks
The Banebot polyurethane rubber seems like a very different material than the blue McMaster wheels. The consistency is closer to that of a pencil eraser than of a smooth rubber like the blue McMaster wheels, and the BB wheels will start to fail before they break traction with a game piece. The McMaster wheels are more durable so they'll slip before they fail, and they also seem subjectively a bit less sticky.
Durometer isn't an absolute measure of traction by any means. You can get the McMaster wheels in a durometer lower than the orange Banebot wheels. So I would not take a durometer number as gospel in terms of tractive force applied to a game piece - especially if you are comparing two different rubbers.
Another variable this year is that the amount of compliance your intake had affected what wheels worked optimally. 1114's intake was mostly rigid with a small degree of compliance in the outermost wheels for picking up cans. More compliant intakes seemed to prefer the blue McMaster or even the harder blue BaneBot wheels over the orange BaneBots (I was really surprised to see that the harder BB wheel would grip a tote better...). Intake design this year was definitely not something you could afford to guess on without prototyping extensively.
mman1506
06-12-2015, 11:03
disclaimer: i'm not 1114, i just played with intakes for six weeks
The Banebot polyurethane rubber seems like a very different material than the blue McMaster wheels. The consistency is closer to that of a pencil eraser than of a smooth rubber like the blue McMaster wheels, and the BB wheels will start to fail before they break traction with a game piece. The McMaster wheels are more durable so they'll slip before they fail, and they also seem subjectively a bit less sticky.
Durometer isn't an absolute measure of traction by any means. You can get the McMaster wheels in a durometer lower than the orange Banebot wheels. So I would not take a durometer number as gospel in terms of tractive force applied to a game piece - especially if you are comparing two different rubbers.
Another variable this year is that the amount of compliance your intake had affected what wheels worked optimally. 1114's intake was mostly rigid with a small degree of compliance in the outermost wheels for picking up cans. More compliant intakes seemed to prefer the blue McMaster or even the harder blue BaneBot wheels over the orange BaneBots (I was really surprised to see that the harder BB wheel would grip a tote better...). Intake design this year was definitely not something you could afford to guess on without prototyping extensively.
For comparison we found our custom 30A durometer urethane wheels to have about the same or slightly better traction than orange banebot wheels. The BB wheels are aerated rubber not urethane.
Bryce2471
07-12-2015, 02:16
Very cool. Were there other approaches to intaking before this prototype? Any chance of more videos being uploaded?
I am also interested to hear the answer to these questions.
Very cool. Were there other approaches to intaking before this prototype? Any chance of more videos being uploaded?
No, this was the first approach that any real effort was put into. There were many subsequent prototypes with different wheel spacing, wheel sizes, wheel types, tension in the surgical tubing, etc.
No, this was the first approach that any real effort was put into. There were many subsequent prototypes with different wheel spacing, wheel sizes, wheel types, tension in the surgical tubing, etc.
The big lesson that carries from this year to the next is that there must be an active intake, and if the game piece doesn't conform to it then the intake must conform to the game piece. Having that design paradigm on day 1 would have set us up a bit better this year. I'm really impressed you guys had such a successful prototype on Day 3.
Bryce2471
07-12-2015, 17:42
No, this was the first approach that any real effort was put into. There were many subsequent prototypes with different wheel spacing, wheel sizes, wheel types, tension in the surgical tubing, etc.
If you don't mine me asking, how did you come to the conclusion that this would be the best intake to test, when you hadn't even made any previous prototypes? What was the thought process that lead to this unconventional intake geometry being your first attempt? Did you lay out the performance goals for the intake before hand? If so, what were they?
I am sorry if these questions come off to pushy. I'm just really interested in how you came to such an effective prototype so early.
Thanks again for all the information and resources that have been posted already.
akoscielski3
07-12-2015, 18:06
If you don't mine me asking, how did you come to the conclusion that this would be the best intake to test, when you hadn't even made any previous prototypes? What was the thought process that lead to this unconventional intake geometry being your first attempt? Did you lay out the performance goals for the intake before hand? If so, what were they?
I am sorry if these questions come off to pushy. I'm just really interested in how you came to such an effective prototype so early.
Thanks again for all the information and resources that have been posted already.
The thing was, this intake wasn't unconventional to a lot of us. We were expecting a lot more teams with this exact same style of intake in the season. I was surprised to see a lot less teams(or none) come up with this design (until later in the season).
The goals for the intake were:
- Fast at puling in a tote
- reorientate almost any tote, no matter what position it is in (besides up side down totes)
- Hold the tote inside our robot long enough for the indexer to pick up the tote
- Intake Cans, and upright cans
To accomplish these goals we thought that the intakes must somehow be able to pull the totes in towards us to orientate them, the wheels alone will probably not do this (We proved this later by removing the front wheels on this prototype). To pull the tote in you would need to have some sort of elastic pulling force to rotate it. THis is why we thought of the pivoting wheels on the outside. Also to make the totes go into the same position inside of our robot every time we would need to have another set of wheels that are "Fixed" (they actually can move a bit). So after coming up with the idea on the weekend, the students ran with it on Monday and came up with the prototype you can see above.
It worked pretty well at first, but we kept playing with spacing, wheels, elastic force and many other variables that we would think could affect them. After finding out the optimal things we began to CAD them, and they are now what you can see on the robot.
A few days later after the prototype we noticed that it might be possible to upright the Cans with out intake too. To accomplish this we tried adding something to make the can pivot around. Originally this was a just a 2x4 piece of wood someone would step on. We played around to find out if this was possible, and what the approximate distance from the inner wheels, this pivot would need to be. After building the robot the "Boot" as we called it, did not exactly perform as we hoped. During week one of competition (we were not competing) one of the members sketched up a rounded "boot" that would make a better pivot point, and guide the can upright. There is a picture of this in the Engineering Notebook on our website. Also to do this our intake would have to be spaced an extra 2 inches apart, which is why they have Cylinders on them to rotate inward and outward. These cylinders is why the inner "Fixed" wheels are not exactly fixed, they can be pushed outward a bit, but will move the tote back into the center of our robot when we intake it
Also you NEVER need to apologize for asking questions. Asking questions is how you learn. I would not be working on robots for a job, working on completing my Mechanical Engineering Degree and Diploma, and be a mentor on Simbotics if I never asked questions. At one point I was an eager and excited high school student who wondered all of these things too.
Ask questions, ask a lot of questions.
I hope all of this helps, and I wish you and your team a good luck in this upcoming season
At one point I was an eager and excited high school student who wondered all of these things too.
Can confirm.
That latch! Wow! How hard was it to balance the push-up force from below versus the cylinder's resistance, only to need to use the retraction stroke to then lift the entire stack in order to set it down? Was this accomplished via specific prototyping, calculations, a bit of both?
I also see an axle linking the front/rear latches on either side. Were there any issues with the left/right sets not firing at the same time, and if so what eventually solved it?
What are the 2 pieces hanging off the bottom of the claw for?
The long skinny horizontal cylinders that run front-back didn't seem to import correctly. Are they for pushing the tote stack out of the bot?
There are some really great nuggets of wisdom in the details of this CAD - from the nifty sheet metal carriage all the way down to the idler sprocket assembly design. I dunno how I would approach a rear-leaning tower without sheet metal though. It's a really neat design.
Mike Marandola
07-12-2015, 23:17
What are the 2 pieces hanging off the bottom of the claw for?
They for capturing the top of the stack. This picture shows it well:
http://i.imgur.com/xnwxLgn.jpg
Ask questions, ask a lot of questions.
I was given one of your worn out BB wheels at IRI and it's broached for 3/4" with a hex sleeve put in it. Why is that? Was it not originally 1/2" hex, did the plastic start rounding, or something else?
http://i.imgur.com/kcuMs9W.jpg
thinker&planner
07-12-2015, 23:27
I was given one of your worn out BB wheels at IRI and it's broached for 3/4" with a hex sleeve put in it. Why is that? Was it not originally 1/2" hex, did the plastic start rounding, or something else?
I know that you can buy those wheels with a 3/4" hex broach off the shelf. I suspect that they were easier to obtain at that point in the season (they always seem to be out of stock for me).
Mike Marandola
07-12-2015, 23:40
I know that you can buy those wheels with a 3/4" hex broach off the shelf. I suspect that they were easier to obtain at that point in the season (they always seem to be out of stock for me).
Ah ok. The only reason I didn't think that would be the case is because there are voids inside the bore.
http://i.imgur.com/B8mwZBr.jpg
Ah ok. The only reason I didn't think that would be the case is because there are voids inside the bore.
In my experience BaneBots ships their 3/4" hex broach wheels with voids inside the bore - back when they were available, BaneBots indicated that voids within the core of the wheel are normal.
Mike Marandola
07-12-2015, 23:51
In my experience BaneBots ships their 3/4" hex broach wheels with voids inside the bore - back when they were available, BaneBots indicated that voids within the core of the wheel are normal.
That's good to know. Thank you
Do you guys have any analysis that was done on your parts that you can share with us? I'm particularly interested in how you guys ensured that your robot was designed to play a full season of matches and practices for your practice bot. How do you train students up to that level of design (if you're doing analysis with the students)? That's pretty high level for most of FRC. I would assume it's the mentors doing it (ok by me), because most students don't have that type of knowledge just yet.
CJ_Elliott
08-12-2015, 10:03
Did 1114 test any other sorts of wheels or is there some resource that you can see which wheels would be best for this function, obviously banebots worked really well but if there is a way to speed up the process of selecting wheels...
marshall
08-12-2015, 10:28
I would assume it's the mentors doing it (ok by me), because most students don't have that type of knowledge just yet.
At the risk of derailing this thread, making that assumption about any team is something no one in FRC should do. Believe me when I tell you that the students of 1114 are passionate, dedicated, and an amazing and one of a kind group. Their mentors are ok too. ;)
I haven't had a chance to look at this CAD yet. Did the harpoon designs get released?
At the risk of derailing this thread, making that assumption about any team is something no one in FRC should do. Believe me when I tell you that the students of 1114 are passionate, dedicated, and an amazing and one of a kind group. Their mentors are ok too. ;)
I haven't had a chance to look at this CAD yet. Did the harpoon designs get released?
Of course the students are passionate. I'm not questioning that. It's just that most students can't perform meaningful analysis without some help.
akoscielski3
08-12-2015, 21:44
Woohoo, now this is how you ask Questions! Here are some answers:
That latch! Wow! How hard was it to balance the push-up force from below versus the cylinder's resistance, only to need to use the retraction stroke to then lift the entire stack in order to set it down? Was this accomplished via specific prototyping, calculations, a bit of both?
I also see an axle linking the front/rear latches on either side. Were there any issues with the left/right sets not firing at the same time, and if so what eventually solved it?
What are the 2 pieces hanging off the bottom of the claw for?
The long skinny horizontal cylinders that run front-back didn't seem to import correctly. Are they for pushing the tote stack out of the bot?
There are some really great nuggets of wisdom in the details of this CAD - from the nifty sheet metal carriage all the way down to the idler sprocket assembly design. I dunno how I would approach a rear-leaning tower without sheet metal though. It's a really neat design.
I was not a part of the design team for the latches or indexer but I can tell you how I would have done the calculations. First I would find out the least amount of force the motors can exert through our gearing with a full stack of Totes, this way it is lifting all 5 totes (The 6th is never pulled up). Once I find that I would need the amount of force from the cylinders on the latches. I would draw a Free Body Diagram of the latch system, and calculate the force pushing the latch open (Totes pushing up), and the force pushing the latch closed (Cylinder Extending force). The force of the latches being closed would have to be less than the force pushing up.
Regarding the latches pushing the stack up, it never does. Originally the latches had slants on them, so we could pull the latches back easily without having to do anything else. However after GTR Central (We dropped a stack in the finals 1 match I believe) we changed this. We then made them have flats on them so the totes cannot come loose. However, since the cylinder could not push the stack up we had to make the indexer pick up the stack ½ an inch so the latches could be pulled back. We made a “Drop Sequence” Button on the driver’s controller. When we dropped a stack the indexer would pick up the stack a bit, pull back the latches, open the intakes to can pick up position (about 2 inches outwards from normal position) and then the driver would back up.
Regarding the axle across the two latches: No we never used cylinders on our prototype because we only had it going up (not dropping a stack). Instead we used pieced of wood screwed to a 2x4 and an elastic to pull it in. Simple and very affective. I know we talked about possibly removing a cylinder, and having only one on each side, and having this was a possibility. Also we knew that if only one of the two cylinders retracted (Shouldn’t be possible anyways) it would be bad, and we would drop the stack.
Reagarding the two pieces of Angle Iron on the bottom of the claw. Mike Marandola was not correct actually (See quote below). These pieces were so that the claw could sit in the back latches. If you look in the CAD model the claw does not sit on the back latches. Instead we had to add these so it would sit on them for when we picked up a can. The angle iron needed to sit around the top tote, maybe it helped to keep them from flying out, but that is not the original reason.
They for capturing the top of the stack.
I was given one of your worn out BB wheels at IRI and it's broached for 3/4" with a hex sleeve put in it. Why is that? Was it not originally 1/2" hex, did the plastic start rounding, or something else?
The 1/2inch jhex broached wheels were out of stock, so we bought the ¾ Outside to ½ insde Hex extrusion from Mcmaster-Carr and glued them inside of the wheel. We had 1/2inch also, wear and tear wasn’t the reason though.
Do you guys have any analysis that was done on your parts that you can share with us? I'm particularly interested in how you guys ensured that your robot was designed to play a full season of matches and practices for your practice bot. How do you train students up to that level of design (if you're doing analysis with the students)? That's pretty high level for most of FRC. I would assume it's the mentors doing it (ok by me), because most students don't have that type of knowledge just yet.
If you are talking about Stress analysis and Fatigue Analysis on the Robot CAD, I do not remember ever doing any or seeing it done by any member. We try and over build things (while staying light enough). If it is sticking outside of the robot (the intakes) they will be very strong, because we assume someone will hit them. You can see in the CAD that all of the sheet metal is 1/8 inch thick, and when built it is very strong, and would be very difficult to bend/break. The only thing I can see someone doing some real stress analysis on is something that has a very large force on it (a catapult?). Even then you should just try and over built it. To make everything work for a full season, we have spares. If you go to our pits you can see we sometimes will have full replacements built for the robot, such as assembles intakes etc. If we notice something on the practice robot is warping, breaking, or something is going wrong, we improve it on that robot first and then at competition we fix the competition robot.
Did 1114 test any other sorts of wheels or is there some resource that you can see which wheels would be best for this function, obviously banebots worked really well but if there is a way to speed up the process of selecting wheels...
You can look at my past post here (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1509937&postcount=122) for the answer
At the risk of derailing this thread, making that assumption about any team is something no one in FRC should do. Believe me when I tell you that the students of 1114 are passionate, dedicated, and an amazing and one of a kind group. Their mentors are ok too. ;)
I haven't had a chance to look at this CAD yet. Did the harpoon designs get released?
Of course the students are passionate. I'm not questioning that. It's just that most students can't perform meaningful analysis without some help.
On 1114 we may do things differently than a lot of other teams. While I was on my other team it was different then 1114. It seemed like the mentors would just tell the students to go design the robot, go build the robot, and go program the robot. On Simbotics it is more like Let me help you design the robot, let me show you how you can calculate what part we need for this, let me show you how I would build the robot/let me help you build the robot, or can I show you how I would machine that part and show you how you can program the robot. This is basically what Big Simbot/Little Simbot program is.
For an example: Last year the driver and I designed the intakes. What ended up happening was me sitting next to him directing what he should change, what parts we should/could use, and then me just adding the parts he made to the assembly. He did most of the design work, and I just pushed him along and helped him learn new CAD techniques. We even touched on how to design “In-Context” assemblies. He really seemed to learn more about CAD and enjoyed it more too. He is now applying to university for Mechanical Engineering next year.
Finally, regarding the harpoons, we have not released the CAD yet, but yes we are planning on releasing it, should be up within a week or two.
Woohoo, now this is how you ask Questions! Here are some answers:
...
The 1/2inch jhex broached wheels were out of stock, so we bought the ¾ Outside to ½ insde Hex extrusion from Mcmaster-Carr and glued them inside of the wheel.
Were there any fit or tolerance issues with the 3/4 to 1/2 hex extrusion with the 1/2 Hex shaft? Was this the first time 1114 has used this?
Thanks for all the insight on the robot and more importantly the processes.
Were there any fit or tolerance issues with the 3/4 to 1/2 hex extrusion with the 1/2 Hex shaft? Was this the first time 1114 has used this?
Nope, there were no issues with this. That being said, we only used this method because of the supply issues with Banebots; not really a technique we'd be interested in repeating.
Nope, there were no issues with this. That being said, we only used this method because of the supply issues with Banebots; not really a technique we'd be interested in repeating.
I agree that this is not a go to method, but it is another tool if needed. I'm always being shown or finding new things on McMaster's website.
Any chance of more videos being uploaded?
As requested, here are some more prototypes:
Indexer prototype made of VEX EDR components; Day 4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAI8iAowT0s)
Drill powered, wood indexer prototype; Day 8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkXFq2L5w1Q)
Kiwi drive prototype; Day 8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN9S5GOsnt8)
GreyingJay
21-12-2015, 00:01
As requested, here are some more prototypes:
Indexer prototype made of VEX EDR components; Day 4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAI8iAowT0s)
Drill powered, wood indexer prototype; Day 8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkXFq2L5w1Q)
Kiwi drive prototype; Day 8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN9S5GOsnt8)
This is really great! It shows the speed that your team arrived at its major design decisions and mechanisms, and your wooden prototypes already outperform a lot of the finished robots we saw this year!
The VEX EDR prototype is an interesting insight. I wonder how many teams prototype with scale models like LEGO or VEX!
first_newbie
28-02-2016, 15:49
Their 2016 robot's name is Simbot Sentinel.
Their 2016 robot's name is Simbot Sentinel.
Affiliated or not, lets keep all that information for members of 1114 to disclose. You should not be broadcasting names or anything affiliated with their team.
-Ronnie
LDiDomenico
28-02-2016, 21:27
Affiliated or not, lets keep all that information for members of 1114 to disclose. You should not be broadcasting names or anything affiliated with their team.
-Ronnie
All robot names are public on TBA. I think it is pulled from FIRST's website but I am not 100% sure on that.
first_newbie
28-02-2016, 21:28
Yeah, I got their name from TBA
All robot names are public on TBA. I think it is pulled from FIRST's website but I am not 100% sure on that.
Yeah, I got their name from TBA
Surprised by that but kinda cool? As future practice though, try not to revive an old thread just to post something about their robot name.
-Ronnie
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