Must Read - Seriously, You'll love it.

[rick.oliver]

Please, do yourself a huge favor and read this blog post, especially if you coach or mentor a team.

http://leadwithastory.com/top-10-differences-between-high-school-sports-and-robotics/

This was written by one of our parents who attended CIR this past weekend.

[Koko Ed]

Please, do yourself a huge favor and read this blog post, especially if you coach or mentor a team.

http://leadwithastory.com/top-10-differences-between-high-school-sports-and-robotics/

This was written by one of our parents who attended CIR this past weekend.

The more involved he gets with robotics the more he'll realize the diffrences aren't all that wide.

[Jaywalker1711]

Thanks for sharing, that's great!

[wilsonmw04]

The more involved he gets with robotics the more he'll realize the diffrences aren't all that wide.

That may be true to some extent, but we must guard against the pressures of sports entering our community. If we see behavior that is not what we think belongs, we must speak out.

[Boltman]

Had to chuckle at no brain injuries...yet team's HS insisted I pass online concussion training to be an "official" robot mentor of the district.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Had to chuckle at no brain injuries...yet team's HS insisted I pass online concussion training to be an "official" robot mentor of the district.

Well, during Aerial Ascent, there were plenty of volunteers wearing helmets field-side to prevent concussions from frisbees flying at 60+ mph. haha

[MamaSpoldi]

This is a GREAT article from the perspective of a parent at an event for the first time. I truly appreciate that they see what we are trying to do. I have been sending this link to everyone! It is awesome.

[Koko Ed]

Well, during Aerial Ascent, there were plenty of volunteers wearing helmets field-side to prevent concussions from frisbees flying at 60+ mph. haha

Paul Copioli's son Gio nearly got his head taken off by a ball that caught him off guard working field reset. Fortunately he has very quick reflexes and snagged the ball just before it hit him. Another volunteer working nearby significantly injured his fingers catching a ball (He may have broken them. They swelled up pretty good. It didn't help that after getting his fingers bent back by the ball he tried to catch the next ball coming in the goal right after it and aggravated the injury). 2013 was really a bad year for volunteer injuries. Those frisbees were brutal!

[rick.oliver]

The more involved he gets with robotics the more he'll realize the diffrences aren't all that wide.

I think that the ten specific differences he identified are real; and I think that until the culture changes, the gap will remain, if not increase.

That assumes that we guard the culture of our FIRST community and do not allow it to drift towards the closing of those gaps and continue to strive to live the values of Gracious Professionalism and Coopertition.

I am not at all disparaging sports; I am also a big fan. I also recognize that there are great coaches and programs in the world of sports which exemplify similar values.

The culture of the fan base is the target and I do not see the professional sports organizations adopting a focus on changing the culture of their fan base.

For me, this is an example of FIRST fulfilling its stated objective and perhaps a few of the readers will be influenced.

I shared it with this community so that we all could celebrate the success of having influenced the culture.

[Koko Ed]

The culture of the fan base is the target and I do not see the professional sports organizations adopting a focus on changing the culture of their fan base.

.
There are some pretty awful things fans do at sport (mainly due to drinking and the arrogant assumption of entitlement because they paid for a ticket) but the teams are caught between a rock and a hard place. Unless it's an outright blatant act they would be going after paying customers which could hurt their bottom line (after all they are businesses).
When I usually see "fan culture" it's usually aggressive parent saving seats for their kid's team more often then not.
I think that the alliance model is what sets FIRST apart. It not only makes you work with against other teams but teaches you to negotiate, strategize and take interest in the well being of other teams at the event. Outside of multi car race teams I can't really think of anything else in sports that comes close to what FIRST does at the competitions. I think it's one of the coolest things FIRST does.

[Alyssa]

This is so true. Thank you for sharing.

[Caleb Sykes]

Had to chuckle at no brain injuries...yet team's HS insisted I pass online concussion training to be an "official" robot mentor of the district.

On the topic of brain injuries: Galileo 2014 Q3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UnbIfYoIVQ#t=6s)

Actually, I just wanted an excuse to watch that again.

[wilsonmw04]

or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnE0j69_gYk

[PayneTrain]

or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnE0j69_gYk

The 1610 bot to 2363 HP is hilarious because the robot turns, and you imagine him thinking "hmm, that's differe-BAM". On the other hand if I'm on 1519 I could win every major award in the book and the most vivid memory of my time in FIRST would be the time we beamed the founder of the program straight in the nose.

[notmattlythgoe]

The 1610 bot to 2363 HP is hilarious because the robot turns, and you imagine him thinking "hmm, that's differe-BAM". On the other hand if I'm on 1519 I could win every major award in the book and the most vivid memory of my time in FIRST would be the time we beamed the founder of the program straight in the nose.

We watched that every morning on the way to the arena last year and laughed every time. The best part of the video is the fact they hand him the ball and he has to feed it back into the robot that just beamed him with it.

[BrendanB]

...[/url]

...

...

How this still gets brought up in relevant discussion every year is beyond me. :rolleyes:

[PayneTrain]

We watched that every morning on the way to the arena last year and laughed every time.

Needless to say this video provided a very teachable moment for our Human Player and I'm certain the hands/face-on experience was also good for y'all
and I still laugh audibly in public places when I am reminded of this video

[YAK'ker]

39 at a Regional?

thanks for sharing this....as an alumni parent, I can remember feeling that same way and being so pleasantly surprised.

I have also dealt with parents who brought their "little league" competitiveness to our events and were disappointed and overwhelmed with trying to understand how the scoring worked. It always amazes me that the next year I see them at competition, they are the ones bragging about how much better robotics is than sports and explaining the scoring to the newbies.

[Koko Ed]

39 at a Regional?

thanks for sharing this....as an alumni parent, I can remember feeling that same way and being so pleasantly surprised.

I have also dealt with parents who brought their "little league" competitiveness to our events and were disappointed and overwhelmed with trying to understand how the scoring worked. It always amazes me that the next year I see them at competition, they are the ones bragging about how much better robotics is than sports and explaining the scoring to the newbies.

Resistance is futile.

[Koko Ed]

FIRST should extend an invitation to the author to check out the FIRST World Championships. I think he would appreciate it very much!

[rick.oliver]

FIRST should extend an invitation to the author to check out the FIRST World Championships. I think he would appreciate it very much!

I suspect that he will be attending. Our team was fortunate to receive an invitation last week. And we were blessed to have folks step up with sponsorship to cover the entrance fee.

[Dave Campbell]

Great article Rick! Thanks for sharing. I'll pass it on to the team, parents and mentors of FRC Team 144!

[PVCpirate]

or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnE0j69_gYk

I knew exactly what this was but I still clicked and watched the whole thing!

[YAK'ker]

I knew exactly what this was but I still clicked and watched the whole thing!

so is this our equivalent of Rickrolling? I had not seen it before, but I am still chuckling...

[DonRotolo]

Had to chuckle at no brain injuries...yet team's HS insisted I pass online concussion training to be an "official" robot mentor of the district.Our drive team wears hard hats to support our driver, who got a concussion last year. She mustn't get a second one...

Resistance is futile.
No Ed, Resistance is Voltage over Current. Sheesh, where'd you get that futile thing? :p

[Grim Tuesday]

What ever happened to robotics is a sport?

[PAR_WIG1350]

No Ed, Resistance is Voltage over Current. Sheesh, where'd you get that futile thing? :p

Actually, that is impedance. Resistance is Re{V/I}:p

[dv/dt]

Great article. I often have a hard time explaining to people why I am so passionate about being a mentor in robotics (FLL, then FTC, then FRC). Also, it's a good reminder about what's important and what we are trying to teach the students. Thanks!

[rsegrest]

The culture of the fan base is the target and I do not see the professional sports organizations adopting a focus on changing the culture of their fan base.

For me, this is an example of FIRST fulfilling its stated objective and perhaps a few of the readers will be influenced.

I shared it with this community so that we all could celebrate the success of having influenced the culture.

Hit the nail right on the head. :D

[jvriezen]

I read the article, generally liked it and posted a link to it on a social media page. I got some strong negative comments about the blog post, some of which are quite valid. Many of the 'differences' cited are not comprehensive among high school sports, and if you consider sports such as swimming, diving, golf, and others, I suspect the stabs at sports is quite off the mark.

Most fans are behaved, girls issue is dealt with via boys and girls teams. Teamwork, dedication and perseverance are useful life skills, not all teams/players have foul language and so forth.

But the post is certainly good at promoting discussions about the aspects of FIRST Robotics.

[YAK'ker]

as much as I know we aren't in this solely to win, the only way our admin will ever take our team seriously would be if we do win.

we have seen nearly every hands-on STEAM program cut at our school, beginning with giving our huge and successful auto shop program to the wrestling team. our incredible photography/pottery studio was transformed into a special ed room. now we are losing our woodshop/drafting/robotics classes to an uncertified track coach who plans on teaching 1 period of commercial art.

it's ironic, because our school has been held up as the district flagship highschool, we are IB, so we attract kids who want a more challenging program. now we will be the only HS in the district without a robotics program.

winning the district might help change his mind...if not, 4-H is waiting for us!

[jvriezen]

as much as I know we aren't in this solely to win, the only way our admin will ever take our team seriously would be if we do win.
...
winning the district might help change his mind...if not, 4-H is waiting for us!

Any way you can get your admin to attend an event and give them a tour of the pits and talk to teams/kids ?

[YAK'ker]

I wish!!! In the 9 years we have been going, our principal hasn't come to a single match, awards ceremony, or any team event.

We have even had athletic coaches come and be blown away by the whole milieu...one of our lead coaches says he "hopes his kid joins our team" next year, even if it cuts into his basketball time.

Ironically, our "thank you" plaque to the school is the only one our admin has displayed in his spotless room. He is an active Rotarian, and every year at least one of our robotics students get selected as "student of the month" so he helps haul the robots to the luncheons where Rotary can see them.

I don't think it's a question of him not liking us, but maybe getting pressure from our athletic boosters? There has been talk of having them support robotics, but it would take money away from traditional athletics, so they abandoned that idea right away. Also, some of the district higher-ups are coaches (like the wrestling coaches) so they pretty much get to take whatever they want from the schools. Sad.

[jvriezen]

I don't think it's a question of him not liking us, but maybe getting pressure from our athletic boosters? There has been talk of having them support robotics, but it would take money away from traditional athletics, so they abandoned that idea right away. Also, some of the district higher-ups are coaches (like the wrestling coaches) so they pretty much get to take whatever they want from the schools. Sad.

At this point it has been a marketing/lobbying issue, it seems.

Here are some ideas:

Put together a great presentation about the benefits of Robotics
Include quotes and/or video testamonials from students and parents and any others who 'get it'
Be able to give the presentation 'live' and also have a video of the presentaiton.
Present this at Boosters club meeting-- even most 'athletics' parents will get the academic benefit of the program.
Present it anywhere else that you need to influence people.
Have each student and/or their parents write a personal letter to the decision makers calling for support.
Present at the school board meeting or at least privately to school board members.

[Munchskull]

I got chewed out by a athlete for sharing this on Facebook.

[Katie_UPS]

I got chewed out by a athlete for sharing this on Facebook.

No one likes hearing what they do is futile or worthless, especially when compared to this other thing (even if it is robots). Student athletes work just as hard as, if not harder than, robotics kids, and it kind of stinks to have someone belittle your hours of dedication/passion. Also, as already mentioned, not every sport or team is bloodthirsty with ref-bemoaning spectators (and I don't think FIRSTers are actually thaaat much better about refs).

[Sperkowsky]

Inspiring to hear

[The other Gabe]

No one likes hearing what they do is futile or worthless, especially when compared to this other thing (even if it is robots). Student athletes work just as hard as, if not harder than, robotics kids, and it kind of stinks to have someone belittle your hours of dedication/passion. Also, as already mentioned, not every sport or team is bloodthirsty with ref-bemoaning spectators (and I don't think FIRSTers are actually thaaat much better about refs).

we try. it's hard sometimes :rolleyes:

[Libby K]

No one likes hearing what they do is futile or worthless, especially when compared to this other thing (even if it is robots). Student athletes work just as hard as, if not harder than, robotics kids, and it kind of stinks to have someone belittle your hours of dedication/passion.

This is a really concise way of stating the reason I can't stand when we propose FIRST as the alternative to sports. I was an athlete in high school, in addition to captaining my robotics team. Sports aren't evil, being a student athlete doesn't mean you're dumb/aggressive/don't know how to be a decent human being/any other stereotype you want to attach to athletes.

It's frustrating when high school sports programs overtake the budgets and attention of FIRST teams, sure - but there's nothing inherently wrong with playing a sport, or celebrating student athletes.

Sports teams teach students teamwork, discipline, dedication... just like FIRST teams do. Are there parts of sports-culture that we probably don't want to start including in FIRST? Absolutely. That's why FIRST pushes hard on the core values of gracious professionalism and co-opertition. There are going to be bad apples in any community - we've all seen unsportsmanlike behavior in football and FIRST alike. That doesn't make either program, or the work people put into their team, invalid.

I think this article is a great set of first impressions about FIRST, and has certainly been making the rounds online (In fact, our school superintendent sent it to me - he'd found it on his own!) - but that doesn't mean we (generally - I'm not referencing this specific case at all, I promise) have to tear down other teams of hardworking students to give FIRST the spotlight.

Edit:: Just found a section near the bottom of the article that I hadn't seen before - the author gets it, and I really hope he stays involved.
My goal here isn’t to denigrate or turn anyone away from sports. They can be a wonderfully positive part of any young person’s upbringing. But after this experience, I’ll almost certainly be holding the athletes, coaches, and fans to a higher set of expectations, now that I know what’s possible.

[rsegrest]

Whenever my robot kiddos complain about more money/attention/etc. going to the football team I remind them of something: every program our high school offers means something to someone.

I know kids, (one of them is now a highly visible, well-paid professional athlete) who graduated from high school for one reason; football. For this young man I know that football was the only thing that kept him coming to school, passing classes (we are a 'no pass no play' state), and out of trouble (for the most part anyway). In my school there are many others like him; we are a football town.

I would hazard a guess that the majority of us who are associated with robotics through a school know at least one student who only makes it through due to their dedication to a particular extra-curricular. Heck, I know kids (once again as I am sure we all do) who only make it through high school because of robotics.

I think perhaps the frustration some have arises from the feeling that it is acceptable to shun/ridicule those who are interested in things different from your interests. Many times the robotics (and STEM) kids are ridiculed by their peers (athletes and other students alike) in the hallways. In school we push kids to be smarter, learn more, and score higher on tests. When those kids find something that takes a whole lot of brainpower, dedication, and is the coolest thing in the world to them they feel that their school administration is ridiculing them as well by not allocating funding and recognizing their accomplishments just as they do the others. Heck, you can even take equal funding and recognition off the table. Some would shoot for any funding or recognition based on what I have read posted by others.

In short I agree with Libby (and am glad you read to the bottom of Mr. Smith’s article regarding sports). We are so well trained to read snipets of articles (big bold print) that we miss the fine print sometimes. I understand your frustration with the phrase ‘alternative to sports’. We should be just as valued though.

[Alan Anderson]

I got chewed out by a athlete for sharing this on Facebook.

I don't know exactly what "chewed out" means in this context, but if it's what it sounds like, it's ironic. That would be the kind of behavior that the blogger was talking about as being absent from the robotics competition he observed.

[notmattlythgoe]

I don't know exactly what "chewed out" means in this context, but if it's what it sounds like, it's ironic. That would be the kind of behavior that the blogger was talking about as being absent from the robotics competition he observed.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/65/65d5c075597aca15738c02d9b31416ee2ab6dba4d8cd47b985 4ba51553968099.jpg

[popnbrown]

I read the article, generally liked it and posted a link to it on a social media page. I got some strong negative comments about the blog post, some of which are quite valid.

I had a lengthy discussion about this with a good friend of mine, who's also an alumni. I must say that after the discussion, I do think that the article actually wasn't as well written as it could have been. While he does mention as the fine print that he does not mean to denigrate sports the tone used in the article suggests the contrary.

I think I was blinded because of my involvement and only saw what he promoted in FIRST, but I believe in FIRST as one other sport or activity that should be made available to everyone. This article conflicts with me a little bit.

It's a lot about how you say it. On a second read, I discovered a lot of assumptions about sports that combined give a very unfair picture of High School Sports.

Some examples:
If you spend any time in the stands at a basketball or football game, for example, you can’t help but notice the constant barrage of verbal abuse hurled at the referees

At a typical high school sporting event, the only role girls play is to cheer for the boys

Learning skills they’ll actually use later in life

You won’t catch a robotics coach in an angry, red-faced tirade yelling at their players or slamming clip boards on the ground.

#4 Brain injuries

It's great to have a supporter of FIRST, but if we're to make FIRST successful and keep its values (like so many have talked about), I think broadcasting inaccurate assumptions about competing activities isn't the best way.

[Sperkowsky]

I had a lengthy discussion about this with a good friend of mine, who's also an alumni. I must say that after the discussion, I do think that the article actually wasn't as well written as it could have been. While he does mention as the fine print that he does not mean to denigrate sports the tone used in the article suggests the contrary.

I think I was blinded because of my involvement and only saw what he promoted in FIRST, but I believe in FIRST as one other sport or activity that should be made available to everyone. This article conflicts with me a little bit.

It's a lot about how you say it. On a second read, I discovered a lot of assumptions about sports that combined give a very unfair picture of High School Sports.

Some examples:










It's great to have a supporter of FIRST, but if we're to make FIRST successful and keep its values (like so many have talked about), I think broadcasting inaccurate assumptions about competing activities isn't the best way.
And some of that isn't true for first teams. In some teams all girls do is cheer, in some teams mentors scream red faced, and in some cases there are people screaming curses in the stands of Frc events. It isn't perfect.
I had a lengthy discussion about this with a good friend of mine, who's also an alumni. I must say that after the discussion, I do think that the article actually wasn't as well written as it could have been. While he does mention as the fine print that he does not mean to denigrate sports the tone used in the article suggests the contrary.

I think I was blinded because of my involvement and only saw what he promoted in FIRST, but I believe in FIRST as one other sport or activity that should be made available to everyone. This article conflicts with me a little bit.

It's a lot about how you say it. On a second read, I discovered a lot of assumptions about sports that combined give a very unfair picture of High School Sports.

Some examples:










It's great to have a supporter of FIRST, but if we're to make FIRST successful and keep its values (like so many have talked about), I think broadcasting inaccurate assumptions about competing activities isn't the best way.