Drive Team Decisions

[Canop3n3r]

Our team is having a hard time with making up its mind on who is going to be our drive team and we dont know how to settle it either. We only have one team member who has experience on the drive team. We do not have a robot to practice on until we get to competition and we fear that is way too late to decide our drive team. How does your team usually decide decisions like this?

[donnie99]

Our team usually has the same problem with not having a practice bot and if we need a new drive team, we usually have who we believe to be the best drive during practice matches and/or on the practice field at events.

If you're team absolutely needs to decide a drive team before the competition, I would personally make sure the drivers understand how your team wants to play the game and is able to work with other teams on your alliance, both on the field and pre-match strategy. As a driver for 3 years, and a coach for part of this year, teams that work well together can pull off amazing feats, even if the drivers aren't necessarily the best out there.

I hope you do well with whoever you have drive!

[Sperkowsky]

see who knows the rules the best. seems fair.

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

1- I suggest you find people who know well the robot (and the code), so if something goes wrong, they will know how to deal with it.

2-you need someone who knows how to work with the driver station (connection issues, dashboard, joysticks)

3- you need you drivers to play well under pressure. It's not because they are good in practice that it will be the same on a real field.

4- you need to trust your drive team; you give them absolute control over the outcome of your season

5- your drivers MUST have read the rules AT LEAST 100 times

[Wetzel]

Must have someone fluent in the code, someone fluent in mechanical repairs, someone that is competent at driving. All must know the rules.

[SeanFitz]

We had this same problem last year. What we did is we rotated the drive team with the top candidates (gamers tend to be the better drivers) through our first few matches. We reached a decision at the end of day one of qualifications by which team preformed best, and stuck with that team for the rest of the year.

[KosmicKhaos]

check this power point out by Karthik a mentor from 1114. He does a lot with strategy and building a team. Page 25 is when he starts talking about Drive Team and such. http://www.simbotics.org/files/pdf/runteam.pdf

[angelah]

It needs to be students who can handle multiple tasks under pressure, are sharp enough to remember rules and game plans, know the robot well (ideally one person who is heavily involved in programming and one who is heavily involved in the build,) and who can represent your team well. What a good drive team does goes far beyond the 2:15 most people are thinking of.

The controls are the least part of it, honestly, and that part can be learned with no previous experience. Other things that aren't important to driver skill: gender, seniority (other than a possible link with experience), or having the most desire to be the driver.

[Nemo]

Your drivers publicly represent the team, so they need to be able to deal with the alliance partners and volunteers and each other in positive ways.

In my opinion, the importance of communication and interpersonal skills trump the driving skills.

[SJaladi]

This year we decided who our driveteam would be via a two part testing/tryout process. First we gave all students who wanted to be driveteam members a written rules/general team policy/strategy test. Then anyone who met a certain cutoff (75% IIRC) moved on to the practical tryout. For this part the students used the practice robot and worked with the coach to determine who makes the final cut. At this point we had two full driveteams and after more practice we decided which was the competition drive team and which was the backup driveteam.

[IronicDeadBird]

Pre-season I went and let people drive a course I designed to test different skill levels. After seeing base skill level I brought in a technique I wanted them to learn and saw how receptive they are to learning complex mechanical driving skills. I took the best of them and then went and trained one group on high speed driving and the other I had specialize in high precision driving.

[FrankJ]

They all need to understand the rules.
Understand how to get the most points with your robot. That might be in a helping role for a more capable alliance partner.
The coach needs to understand strategy and how to negotiate with the alliance partners.
Human player needs to know what the penalties are and how not to get them.
The drivers need to know what the robot is capable of and understand the controls.

Suggest you get inspected early and get in as many practice matches as you can. Use the matches to work on skills.

[IronicDeadBird]

Also make it clear that its not a pretty job either. As good as you look doing things right out on the field I've seen things turn sour. A lot of time drivers mistake programmers disappointment in code not running for disappointment in a driver ability. Drivers get the most flak out of any role I have seen on a team. "Why didn't you score this or rush that?" Drivers get that a lot.

[Ether]

Our team is having a hard time with making up its mind on who is going to be our drive team and we dont know how to settle it either.

Watch these videos:

http://youtu.be/ALASWt2uDqw?t=47m10s Driver Qualities

http://youtu.be/ALASWt2uDqw?t=54m31s Drive Coach Qualities

http://youtu.be/ALASWt2uDqw?t=58m24s Selecting a drive team

[EricH]

I would say that previous posters have it just about right.

Skill can be learned... but you'll need time to do that. You should be first to unbag and first to go for inspection at your event. The sooner you have that full pass, the sooner you can hit the filler line. If you're in early enough, you just might be able to get 2-3 matches in a row.

Communication, on the other hand, is difficult to learn. If you find a drive team combination that appears to read each other's minds, you probably have a good drive team.

Cool under pressure... goes without saying.

The COACH should be the one to take the heat from everybody else that's aimed at the drivers. Ideally, the coach has some experience... or not... but needs a thick skin.


And finally... know the rules. The drive team should know the rules inside and out, specifically the Game and to a lesser extent the Tournament sections. And the Q&A as well, at least anything pertaining to those sections.

[Chris is me]

At this point, you're at best a week from your event? Pick the guy with experience, and then pick mature, level headed people that can work with the experienced guy under pressure. Don't pick anyone who doesn't know the rules. Work on this aspect of your team for next year.

[Caleb Sykes]

At this point, you're at best a week from your event? Pick the guy with experience, and then pick mature, level headed people that can work with the experienced guy under pressure. Don't pick anyone who doesn't know the rules. Work on this aspect of your team for next year.

This.

[Gweiss96]

Next time, build 2 robots. Bag one, practice with the other. See who are the best drivers by practicing with the practice bot. For now just practice with previous year robots and see who is the best/most comfortable.

[SousVide]

This is definitely discussed a lot over the seasons. See below thread for an example:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125252

We don't necessarily pick our drivers for the best driving skills. Our drivers must know the rules of the game well - backwards and forwards. They must be able to communicate with the other drive team members *and* be able to follow the drive coach's instructions without discussion or argument (talk about what happened after the match, not during). They must also be GP at all times - we consider them to be our team's ambassadors... A lot of these skills are more character qualities - they can be learned and practiced. However, we feel that, robot driving can improve during the season with some practice... The other selection criteria are more improvements over years.

[GeeTwo]

Must have someone fluent in the code, someone fluent in mechanical repairs, someone that is competent at driving. All must know the rules.

The drive coach (which has been a student on our team since a few matches into our rookie year) must be a tough negotiator, who can assert the team's strengths but is capable of recognizing a good compromise.

The human player must be good at whatever the HP does that year (this year, it may be either tote feeding or littering, depending on your robot design).

All of them must be able to handle the pressure and put a good face forward for the team.

I also agree with the post about making two robots next year. Last year, we had a prototype (Woody, named after his structural elements) and competition 'bot (Buzz, an aluminum-chassis 'bot named after Andy's other favorite toy). Practicing with Woody was a lot better than not practicing at all, but this year we built two (nearly) identical robots and bagged the incrementally better one. If it hadn't been for the hours and hours of driver practice between bag and regional, we'd never have figured out that we could pick up and carry and stack two totes at a time on the same level (totally serendipitous) or how to roll totes over (we had flipping as a thing we wanted to do, but the way that works is not at all what we planned). Without those abilities, we would not have been picked up to be part of a championship alliance.

[Ozuru]

The drive coach (which has been a student on our team since a few matches into our rookie year) must be a tough negotiator, who can assert the team's strengths but is capable of recognizing a good compromise.

The human player must be good at whatever the HP does that year (this year, it may be either tote feeding or littering, depending on your robot design).

All of them must be able to handle the pressure and put a good face forward for the team.

I also agree with the post about making two robots next year. Last year, we had a prototype (Woody, named after his structural elements) and competition 'bot (Buzz, an aluminum-chassis 'bot named after Andy's other favorite toy). Practicing with Woody was a lot better than not practicing at all, but this year we built two (nearly) identical robots and bagged the incrementally better one. If it hadn't been for the hours and hours of driver practice between bag and regional, we'd never have figured out that we could pick up and carry and stack two totes at a time on the same level (totally serendipitous) or how to roll totes over (we had flipping as a thing we wanted to do, but the way that works is not at all what we planned). Without those abilities, we would not have been picked up to be part of a championship alliance.

Two robots is substantially better but almost impossible for teams with a budget. How do you handle the costs of the season with the costs of doubling your parts?

[SJaladi]

Two robots is substantially better but almost impossible for teams with a budget. How do you handle the costs of the season with the costs of doubling your parts?

This was the first year we successfully built a proper identical practice robot. The biggest things we did to manage the budget were to buy everything in doubles so as to save shipping in the future and of course LOTS of fundraising. We set a goal for ourselves in the off-season of what it would take to do everything we want to this season and then the kids worked hard to fundraise.

[Lij2015]

I don't want to downplay the role of an operator but you can pick anyone you trust for the secondary driver and with training it'll turn out just fine.

Unless you need the tote chute for your robot, pick a tall person with a good arm for your hp.

Driver, pick based on half skill/intuition and half maturity.

Coach, pick someone who can lead or you trust. The strategy part can be researched.

[hunterteam3476]

What we do on Code Orange is tell our students at the starting of season if you want to be on the drive team you must be coming during build season at least 80% of the time to even qualify. This is a good way so you don't have parents complaining about why their kid isn't on drive team, you give them a fair chance. Once we know who is qualified then we have tryouts. We asked the students if they will be able to commit to do drive practice every day. We also look at there attitude and how they acted, your drive team meets a lot of teams you don't want to know your team didn't get picked because they are rude. And of course see how there driving skills are and how they are under pressure.

Good Luck!

[angelah]

This was the first year we successfully built a proper identical practice robot. The biggest things we did to manage the budget were to buy everything in doubles so as to save shipping in the future and of course LOTS of fundraising. We set a goal for ourselves in the off-season of what it would take to do everything we want to this season and then the kids worked hard to fundraise.

This was our first year building one, too. We are not a team with a large budget, either. We just made it a highest priority this year. We asked materials sponsors for more, we cut other things, and we picked off old robots. We share the most expensive control components between the two. It has made all the difference in the way we place at competitions.

[pujeethmeruva]

If the drive coach is a student, what all can they do in terms of handling game pieces and the controls

[DarkRune]

Regardless of the coach being a student or adult, the coach is never allowed to touch the controls or game pieces once the match has started.

[IronicDeadBird]

Regardless of the coach being a student or adult, the coach is never allowed to touch the controls or game pieces once the match has started.

They can touch game pieces in self defense.

[EricH]

Regardless of the coach being a student or adult, the coach is never allowed to touch the controls or game pieces once the match has started.

Right there.

You see, the only thing the refs (who are enforcing that rule set) have to tell the coach from the rest of the drive team is that nice yellow dot on the coach's badge. Doesn't matter if they're a student or an adult, the refs will call a foul if they see a yellow dot badge on the person driving or handling totes or handling litter.

[GeeTwo]

Two robots is substantially better but almost impossible for teams with a budget. How do you handle the costs of the season with the costs of doubling your parts?

Fundraising. In addition to some collections at local grocery stores, we sold tool kits, have done two piggybackr campaigns (similar to kickstarter but with an infrastructure to allow tracking which student brings in funds while obeying child safety laws), several local businesses, and a few big-ticket sponsors. The piggybackr type campaigns should be for a specific purpose - our first was to raise money for a duplicate 2015 control system, the second to raise money for our trip to St. Louis. We also have a number of steady contributors (for example, I buy parts online and from local stores occasionally, and usually only turn in the receipts for BoM purposes). We have found that it usually does not make sense to make two parts originally, but to go through a bit of prototype-and-tweak phase before making the second copy; both faster to develop, and less expensive. It also helps that we intentionally go for relatively simple designs - I believe our BoM came in about $2500, so we didn't spend much more than if we'd made one $4000 robot. The key is to make fundraising nearly as important as building or programming skills as far as making the team and lettering, then get the kids' competitive spirit aroused with fundraising. You won't get it from everyone, but hopefully enough to have enough money to fund two robots.

It also helps that we only do one regional per year, and that's about an hour drive from the school. But, when we earned a trip to St. Louis, we realized we'd need about $20,000 to get 25 students and 8 mentors and our trailer (purchased with a grant from Ingersoll Rand Foundation) there. Our $5k entry fee came from the schoool board. In the last 10 days, we've raised $10k of the other $15k, nearly half through individual contributions at piggybackr. We've also made a bunch of contacts with businesses that can't help us in the next few weeks, but are almost certain to sponsor us next year.