View Full Version : Volunteering at an event you have a team at?
What are some experiences that people have being a mentor for a team, and then volunteering at the event that they compete at?
I'm seriously considering applying to become a ref next year (I think I'd be awesome at the job myself), and aside from the obvious conflict of interest problems (which could be worked around by having me on break when my team plays), would there be logistical issues such as the team asking you questions (unrelated to the game) etc?
Just wondering what folks experiences with this are and if I'm completely bonkers for wanting to do it :)
Maldridge422
24-03-2015, 22:16
I volunteered at the Virginia Regional. It was a great experience and I had a lot of fun. However, in hindsight, I would've much rather been with my team so that I could help them out when they ran into problems. I felt fairly useless whenever issues with my team arose because I couldn't always drop what I was doing to go help them.
Ooh boy.
May I suggest that you start by reffing at an event that your team most definitely is NOT at? This will give you a chance to find out if you're really up for the job, without the added pressure of having to call your own team correctly. Being a ref is harder than it looks.
I got my start reffing last year, at an event that neither my current team nor the team I was on in high school was at. That's where the head ref for the regional both teams call home (where I was planning to inspect) told me that if someone flaked, he'd be looking for me... and then I heard that the ref allotment had expanded, so I figured I'd better volunteer before I was "recruited". And at the local offseason, I didn't step back fast enough and found myself the head ref. THAT was pressure!
Oh, and did I mention that taking a break when my team was up wasn't an option last year? In those cases, you've got one option: Call the game straight.
This year, I'm reffing two events--one had my current team, one has my former team. At both, I simply turn in the conflict of interest form and inform the head ref. This year, it's simple enough: If there is a potential conflict, you work the other side of the field. In most years, that isn't an option, so break it is.
As far as your team asking questions, unrelated to the game (or not), my best advice would be to tell them upfront that you're reffing, so chit-chat is going to be heavily discouraged.
In my (limited) experience, being on break when your team plays probably isn't an option (what if they make the playoffs?)
Only you can answer the question of whether you're comfortable refereeing when your team is on the field. This includes not letting your biases affect anything (in either direction!), not being able to give any advice or help to your team while on referee duty, and being stuck out on the field if there are any problems or issues. If you truly think you can handle it, feel free to volunteer, just be upfront with your potential conflict of interests.
I refereed an event last year with my former team, which I still feel pretty close to, in attendance. I refereed some sporting events at college with friends involved, so it wasn't a huge deal for me - although I did make one call that tilted a game in their favor (I made 100% sure it was correct...)
rich2202
24-03-2015, 22:43
Last year was my first year volunteering. I have been a Robot Inspector, Ref, and Scorekeeper. In the process, you learn a lot that can help your team.
Fortunately, I am not a lead mechanical or programming mentor, so when there are problems, there are other people to go to.
Regarding Ref'ing, there is usually an extra ref or two, and you cycle so each person gets a break every so often. Last year, if your team was on the field, there is not a problem getting the extra ref to take your spot for one match. This year, I just swapped sides (ref'ed the blue side if my team was on the red side). Lots of the Ref's are related to a team, so we are used to dealing with the potential conflict.
Pro's of Ref'ing or other "field" volunteer:
1) Get to watch the game from the field.
Con's:
2) You are not with the "team" in the stands.
3) You get tunnel vision (watch your area of the field), and may not be able to watch your team's bot.
FYI: At the Regionals I was at, they fed the volunteers.
orangemoore
24-03-2015, 22:44
FYI: At the Regionals I was at, they fed the volunteers.
I thought that it was standard to feed the volunteers.
I thought that it was standard to feed the volunteers.
Pretty certain that it is. Usually breakfast and lunch at a minimum; dinner would depend on what role you're in and how late you're there.
Derek012
24-03-2015, 23:21
I volunteer at some events in New England every year, I try to help out my team when I can giving them ideas on strategy and what not. At the same time its important that the team knows that on the field you are one of the field staff. In precaution if my team needs help I will help them but if it is during a match or a high stress situation I try to send in someone other than myself to handle the situation.
In my own opinion I enjoy going to events I know teams at because its awesome seeing their robots do their thing.
As a lead que I tend to hassel my team when they run late. Other than that there are no real issues.
Jon Stratis
25-03-2015, 00:24
Volunteering for an event while your team is there is completely doable - in fact, most volunteers at events are there with their team as well! The specific role you volunteer for will define your interaction with your team. For example, being a ref mean's you're field-side the entire time, and can't really drop by the pit to pitch in if the team needs help. In fact, you'll barely have time to interact with them at all, as the ref's often have pow-wows by the scoring station between matches, and even when not the drive team should have other things on their mind (like prepping for the match or getting the robot off the field quickly). On the other side, being an inspector means you're in the pits at all times, and if your team needs help you can usually make it to their pit to lend a hand. Generally, any field-side role is going to keep you away from the team, while any role in the pits will free you up for plenty of interaction.
Many VC's I know hesitate to slot team mentors as refs at events their team is at - the conflict of interest potential is just too high. This can change as the VC gets to know the volunteer, though - once they know that you'll handle yourself correctly on the field, they'll be more willing to slot you at the event. One of the mentors I work with went through that, and is now a ref at pretty much all of the events we go to (actually, I get the VC to double-assign him as an inspector so I get him an extra half day on Thursdays :D) In fact, there was one year, at one event, where he ended up reffing during elims while our team was on the field... and called the match-deciding penalty against our team. It was 100% the correct call, and it dropped us out of elims for that event. If you don't think you can handle that situation appropriately, then avoid being a ref at an event where your team is!
kgargiulo
25-03-2015, 00:48
I have been both Robot Inspector (2014) and Judge (2015) at events my team participated in. Volunteering at a regional is a rewarding and energizing experience, and I recommend everyone do it. The view from the field is very nice, but there are some things to be aware of when you are affiliated with a competing team.
Dealing with the team affiliation when inspecting is fairly easy. Notify event staff and head inspector of your team affiliation when you volunteer, remind them at the competition, and don't inspect your own robot. Pretty much it. Ethical behavior when inspecting other robots is table stakes.
Judging is a bit more complicated. Obviously you fill out the team affiliation disclosure form. Prior to the regional I had been told by previous judges as well as regional personnel that a judge affiliated with a competing team does not participate in any discussion in which their team is a factor. It isn't just that you can't talk about your team, this is saying you can't talk at all unless and until your team is out of the discussion.
This means you can hear something negative about another team that you know to be factually incorrect and you can't correct it (helping that team, hurting your own). You can hear something attributed to one team but that was actually done by another team (neither of which is your team) and you can't correct it. If someone asks a question about the game itself (independent of any team) while discussing an award that your team is a candidate for you can't answer the question even if no other judge in the room knows the answer. I'm not trying to subtly imply that judging is rife with these kinds of problems or that misstatements aren't caught and corrected by other judges. The jungle largely self-corrects. I am making these points because I personally found it very difficult to sit on my hands and wait for someone else to notice, even when speaking up would only be to the detriment of my own team.
There is a difference between team affiliation as a mentor and affiliation as a sponsor or employee of a sponsor (as it happens, I am both). In my one and only judging experience, the restrictions applied to a mentor of a competing team do not apply to employees of sponsors of competing teams. There were no restrictions in that regard. Trying to do so would have shrunk the volunteer pool for our regional, so while you can make an equivalence argument there are practical considerations that are carrying the day.
I understand the rules and fully support the hard line approach to avoiding even the perception of bias in judging. I have nothing but praise for my Judge Advisor. There is no good alternative short of disallowing volunteers who are in any way affiliated with competing teams. Which again would likely decimate the volunteer pool.
I enjoy volunteering and am sure I will volunteer again, including judging. However I don't think I will volunteer to judge at an event where my team is participating. I enjoy spending the time with the team and the complications of not being able to fully participate as a judge add up to me taking myself out of that situation in the future by picking a different regional to volunteer at (assuming I can make the time).
One thing I will say: At the event I've reffed at so far this year, only once did my team come under discussion (that I know about) from the refs. As soon as that discussion started, I simply went to the other end of the field to check on prematch setup--figured that if there was something important I needed to know about, or if I needed to say something, I'd hear about it--and as I recall I made some comment about recusing myself.
By the way, I've also inspected where my team was competing. One of my team members saw me heading for another team's pit and asked for inspection. I simply directed him to the inspection station to get an inspector assigned, as I was already on a different call. (And that's the proper procedure anyways--at least at that event it was.)
dtengineering
25-03-2015, 01:48
Volunteering as a Tech Inspector is a great way to go. You never have to inspect your own team, and if there is ever any doubt about another team's infraction you can simply defer to another inspector or refer it to the lead tech inspector. Teams generally appreciate being inspected by someone who knows not just the rules, but the build experience, on a personal level.
Likewise there are dozens of other volunteer opportunities that simply do not present even the slightest potential for a perceived conflict of interest.
Reffing and judging, well... it isn't really the conflict of interest so much as the possible perception of a conflict. I have never judged at an event that my team was competing at, but I have worked on judging panels where a few judges do have affiliations with teams at the event. I have to say that in every case that the affiliated judges not only declared their affiliations, but remained silent whenever their team was in any way associated with an award under consideration. As a judge, who has been in the room, I have to say that team-affiliated judges and FIRST managed the conflict of interest exceptionally well. It simply was not an issue. I can appreciate, however, for those who aren't in the room, that the conflict of interest could be perceived as a greater issue than it was.
Personally, I'd rather have a great ref with a well-managed conflict of interest than a less skilled ref with no potential conflict... but ideally we'd have a great ref with no perceived potential conflict.
A kind of wishy-washy response... but hopefully a rational one,
Jason
BRAVESaj25bd8
25-03-2015, 02:03
Only you can answer the question of whether you're comfortable refereeing when your team is on the field.
This was the best advice I saw in this thread. I've now done queuing and refereeing at an event my team attended. That's my personal line right now. I'm comfortable treating them like any other team on the field, so I was fine taking that role. I suggest that you volunteer if you can say the same, and consider a different role if that's not quite true.
Only you know your comfort level with this, but I advise against banking on the possibility of switching sides of the field at critical times or any strategy like that. Are you comfortable making a decision that will cost ANY team a regional win (or an award for judging)? That's really the issue you need to figure out. Best of luck!
MrTechCenter
25-03-2015, 02:13
I was a rookie robot inspector this year at one of the regionals my team went to. I was also the drive coach at that same regional. Since my team spent most of Thursday fixing up the robot with withholding allowance parts, I was free to do a ton of robot inspecting on Thursday. The couple of practice matches that my team DID get to on Thursday I just had somebody else fill in for me. Since inspections were 98% done by Friday morning, I spent all of Friday and Saturday coaching my team, except for a small portion of Saturday after my team's last match where I had to stand by the field exit and tell teams to go get weighed. Whenever I was in "inspector mode" I had my inspector hat on and I covered up my team shirt with a FIRST vest (except Thursday when I just wore a volunteer shirt). I took the hat and vest off whenever I was coaching.
If you want to still be able to do things with your team, volunteer for a role that has you able to work in shifts with other volunteers of the same role, that way you can still be with your team for portions of the competition.
The Ref portion isn't in me, but have only so far volunteered at events my team was present and competing in a few times in the machine shop. Then last year signed up to just tend the practice field in Las Vegas (often help assemble and disassemble the field also).
Well, we arrived last year (my eldest Son was FTAA so we arrived together), and set up the field Wednesday night. Thursday morning I was helping set up the practice field elements, get the sign up sheets ready, and that lasted a whole 5 minutes...Then I was collared & elevated to Field Supervisor. Given a crew, lucky I knew the game. Most of the crew didn't, but we met, gave them a quick rundown, and we went at it. (I do fairly well supervising people, so it was a good fit).
Being that close to the field gives anyone a new appreciation for the game, the FTA and FTAA, and all the others that make the show go on, and allow it to go live, then you are in it up to your neck.
While you never forget your team, there are not problems w/ the element of conflict of interests...You are flat too busy for any of that stuff (and there are plenty of others around to check any actions that would lean that way). You do your job, and do not ever play favorites either.
The game required all outbound balls to get returned very quickly back to the closest HP of that color alliance, and it doesn't matter what team that was, or whether my team was playing against them or not, they were returned to each alliance as quickly and safely as humanly possible. (Half the time, I didn't really notice my team was even on the field until the match was over...I was just too busy! And the rest of the time my team in the stands were sitting right behind me, so we communicated often).
You pay attention to your job (but you must understand when wearing that FIRST Volunteer shirt, you personally & directly represent FIRST, and you do the best job for FIRST as an organization, that you can in performing that job....Period.
I personally enjoy the volunteer duties tremendously no matter where I am put (in any organization), but I really enjoyed that position the most so far. I was closer to most of the action than the students behind the glass. Though not the Refs or HP's.
And for a near sighted guy...It was perfect. It was a job, I was pretty sore for a week as it was also a real workout, and the nights were a lot shorter than normal, as it was virtually non-stop Wednesday afternoon, until late Saturday night when the truck pulled away w/ the field.
In the future I want to try one when not with the team also. It is fairly hard not cheering outright for the students you directly mentor...LOL. (At least I tried not to personally). So, I just cheer for them all.:D
techhelpbb
25-03-2015, 07:02
I have been an FLL Judge for years with no issue because I have no other involvement in FLL.
I help start Team 11 in 1996 and still mentor programming and now CNC for them.
I have been a CSA/FTAA for several years at the district event we host and nearby on/off season events Team 11 attends.
I do not care who wins the competitions. I have said that many times on ChiefDelphi and I mean it. I have gone all out as CSA to patch up a competitor in quarters, semis and finals even if it means trouble for Team 11.
My job is to be impartial and deliver the service expected of my volunteer function as best as possible. If your team or you can not manage this duplicity without some morale or ethical impass best to think it over before doing it.
So far it has not been an issue for me. Nothing I have done was unusual for/against them. Certain jobs like Judge/Referee I could see the moment being heated if things goes against your team.
One year we had some match replays to consider and there was obvious interest by each team (including Team 11) for that to go one way or the other. I told the FTA, removed myself from the decision and let them figure it out. The match was replayed to the same outcome because often the better designs/better drivers/stronger alliance still had those strengths to pull on regardless of luck.
My team has been directly affected twice by refs who favored their own team. While this is very rare it is extremely frustrating.
The more common problems are a ref being harder on their own team than other teams and being distracted by watching their own team instead of what they are supposed to be watching. I have seen this many times.
I enjoy reffing but I won't were my team is competing. I prefer to be an inspector when my team is playing.
Al Skierkiewicz
25-03-2015, 08:05
I cannot get enough robot inspectors without having volunteers that are present with their team at that event. I have a few rules for inspectors. Number one is you may not inspect your own team. I personally extend this to teams I have become very close to (that number is growing each year). In other words I won't inspect 'friends'. I ask inspectors to present their team affiliation to the team their are inspecting prior to starting an inspection. If the team has any concern that they will not receive a fair evaluation, they can ask for another inspector, no questions asked. I also ask that inspectors that can't be objective (due to a previous interaction or team affiliation) ask another inspector to take over that team's inspection.
Teams depend on inspectors, refs and judges to be impartial, and I want that to continue. Additionally, we want your team to succeed. It kills us to deliver bad news and we will try everything to get you on the field for every match.
Andrew Schreiber
25-03-2015, 09:08
I have judged numerous events where my team is competing. Conflict of Interest form goes in to Judge Advisor and if 125 is up for an award I'm quiet during that award. This is pretty standard practice. This weekend I'm the Judge Advisor for Northeastern where we are also competing and I don't expect any issues.
The biggest downside to me is not being able to help my team at events.
While you never forget your team, there are not problems w/ the element of conflict of interests...You are flat too busy for any of that stuff (and there are plenty of others around to check any actions that would lean that way). You do your job, and do not ever play favorites either.
How I wish this were true. Some teams seem to use their team member volunteers to gain advantage over others. One of the most egregious examples of this I witnessed last year at a regional we traveled to. Our team always gets up extra early to get in line at the door so we get good seats for scouting. At this event, despite being some of the first in the arena, we found the best seats already occupied by another team's stuff. I couldn't figure out how this had happened, but learned later that one of the volunteers from that team had taken advantage of his position as a volunteer to reserve his team the best seats before the arena opened.
At another event, I saw a volunteer trading buttons with an adult pit crew member so the pit crew member could watch his team's matches from right next to the field. After the match was over, they would trade back their buttons and the pit crew member would give their drive team feedback that would not have been possible without that field side access.
Our team records matches and uses the videos to improve drive team performance after every match. Last year I saw some great fieldside video playing in another team's pit. It was way better than ours, recorded from the stands, so I made inquiries. I learned that the "official" event photographer was a volunteer from that team and was supplying his team with field side video of their matches, without doing the same for other teams.
While I'm sure that the vast majority of volunteers are completely ethical, these incidents left me feeling shaken. I've concluded that there exists an "insider culture" where there is some amount of nudge-nudge, wink-wink going on which results in some teams having competitive advantages over others. If you do volunteer at an event where your team is competing, I would ask you not to engage in this type of behavior, and to report it if you observe it happening.
Jon Stratis
25-03-2015, 09:43
How I wish this were true. Some teams seem to use their team member volunteers to gain advantage over others. One of the most egregious examples of this I witnessed last year at a regional we traveled to. Our team always gets up extra early to get in line at the door so we get good seats for scouting. At this event, despite being some of the first in the arena, we found the best seats already occupied by another team's stuff. I couldn't figure out how this had happened, but learned later that one of the volunteers from that team had taken advantage of his position as a volunteer to reserve his team the best seats before the arena opened.
At another event, I saw a volunteer trading buttons with an adult pit crew member so the pit crew member could watch his team's matches from right next to the field. After the match was over, they would trade back their buttons and the pit crew member would give their drive team feedback that would not have been possible without that field side access.
Our team records matches and uses the videos to improve drive team performance after every match. Last year I saw some great fieldside video playing in another team's pit. It was way better than ours, recorded from the stands, so I made inquiries. I learned that the "official" event photographer was a volunteer from that team and was supplying his team with field side video of their matches, without doing the same for other teams.
While I'm sure that the vast majority of volunteers are completely ethical, these incidents left me feeling shaken. I've concluded that there exists an "insider culture" where there is some amount of nudge-nudge, wink-wink going on which results in some teams having competitive advantages over others. If you do volunteer at an event where your team is competing, I would ask you not to engage in this type of behavior, and to report it if you observe it happening.
If you see stuff like this, I recommend bringing it to the attention of the Volunteer Coordinator at the event. I can assure that, at least for the events I've volunteered at, there is no "insider culture" like what you describe. We're serious about keeping everything on a level playing field for teams. When something does occasionally happen that we see, we take corrective action immediately. Most of the time, it's nothing intentional, just someone being too excited and not thinking things through. A gentle reminder and a little coaching is usually enough to correct the situation.
Most of the time, it's nothing intentional, just someone being too excited and not thinking things through. A gentle reminder and a little coaching is usually enough to correct the situation.
That's good. I'll keep that in mind in the future.
billbo911
25-03-2015, 12:08
My roles as a volunteer have been as an RI last year at an event where my team participated, and as an FTAA at two events this year where we participated as well. Of the two, I can tell you it is BY FAR easier to be an RI and remain independent from and impartial toward your team.
When there are multiple RI's, it is very easy to have someone else inspect your team. You can still give your team advice on modifications and repairs, but ALWAYS have another RI sign of on the re-inspection.
As an FTAA, it's not quite that easy. There are not always multiple FTAA's available to have someone else interact with your team. If you are fortunate enough to work with two or more FTAA's, it get's a bit easier. (We actually had all 4 FTAA's at one event from our team, and 3 FTAA's at the other this year. Fortunately the FTA at both events were from different teams, so it made impartiality possible.)
The bottom line is, don't hesitate to volunteer, just know that you may be in situations where you need to walk away. It's not always easy to do, but sometimes it is necessary.
mklinker
25-03-2015, 12:18
I volunteered at the Purdue District last week where my team was competing. I served as an official scorer and had a great time. I enjoyed having other mentors take charge and not having the stress of the event upon my shoulders. My position was not one where there was any chance at bias. Either a tote was on the step and I clicked a button or it was not on the step.
I liked doing this so much that I have already volunteered for the Indiana District Championships (my team is a participant) and will volunteer at ALL future district events and let other adult mentors handle the day to day grind of the event.
I am still able to interact with the team in very small bursts to provide a suggestion or positive comment.
This also forces my students to think and act more independently which I see as a major benefit. In every case they will always have more than one adult to lean on as needed and the adults are always monitoring things and stepping in when needed.
......and you get free food......what could be better?
Richard Wallace
25-03-2015, 12:23
In other words I won't inspect 'friends'.
Al, based on that criterion I think there are going to be quite a few robots that you won't inspect. :)
Kevin Sevcik
25-03-2015, 12:30
Our team always gets up extra early to get in line at the door so we get good seats for scouting. At this event, despite being some of the first in the arena, we found the best seats already occupied by another team's stuff. I couldn't figure out how this had happened, but learned later that one of the volunteers from that team had taken advantage of his position as a volunteer to reserve his team the best seats before the arena opened.Don't you know there's no saving of seats? Or at least there shouldn't be and this is one of the many reasons why.
Back in college I was tagged as scorekeeper for a couple of years at LSR and once at Champs. My biggest problem was occasionally getting distracted watching my team and thus not being prompt on the field reset stuff.
A bit after that I was drafted for LRI at LSR for a year when our mainstay was unavailable. It's about the same as being an RI at your team's competition, except if your team does something that needs an LRI ruling, obviously. I was a good mentor and made sure we didn't have anything questionable on the bot, but if something came up my plan was to conference with the two most experienced unaffliated RIs on hand when making the call.
......and you get free food......what could be better?
Really GOOD free food (especially at the championships)!
I've been doing it for many years and found it to be a great way to have team members get a feel for stepping up and being mmore responsible. While it doesn't always work for every student I've found that the majority of them gain quite a bit of confidence when they realize that they are now responsible. Not that I do everything for the team and have the students watch during build season, - I don't.
But I find that many of the team members gain some maturity after the event and they eventually evolve to become team leaders. It's a great opportunity for them to grow as a person. Of course as they say.... Your mileage may vary.
You will most likely find that it will give you a different perspective on FIRST and help you digest the "big picture"
You will most likely find that it will give you a different perspective on FIRST and help you digest the "big picture"
This is the most important thing. I think every person involved with FIRST should volunteer at least once, whether it's at an official event or an off season. It gives you a perspective outside of your own team and gets you to meet other people who have a different world view of FIRST. I also thinks it helps you to better understand FIRST's vision and will give the the confidence to expand your horizons and even make contacts that could serve you in the future.
I wholeheartedly suggest to anyone who has not tried volunteering at an event to do so. You won't regret it.
Richard Wallace
25-03-2015, 15:19
Really GOOD free food (especially at the championships)!I agree -- have been at several regionals and some districts where the volunteer food was better than what we've had at some Championships. However, I think venue contracts may restrict the Championship options.
I wholeheartedly suggest to anyone who has not tried volunteering at an event to do so. You won't regret it.Well said. Volunteers with team perspective help to make everyone's event experience better, and participants with volunteer experience help build stronger teams.
brandon.cottrell
26-03-2015, 02:34
Would volunteering for a job like field reset or assistant MC (Jobs with minimal to no impact on the actual game), and scouting for teams at the event be considered non-GP?
Would volunteering for a job like field reset or assistant MC (Jobs with minimal to no impact on the actual game), and scouting for teams at the event be considered non-GP?
GP or not it's wrong. You are either a volunteer or you are working with your team, not both. See ToddF posts earlier in the thread.
Jon Stratis
26-03-2015, 08:12
Would volunteering for a job like field reset or assistant MC (Jobs with minimal to no impact on the actual game), and scouting for teams at the event be considered non-GP?
I think it would be wrong to intentionally try to do both. At the same time, it's natural as your seeing teams come through and watching them to form opinions on which one is best. Half the time I'm up at the field between matches, I'm chatting with the MC and game announcer about the relative merits of different robots (it helps that I know both of those individuals very well). But despite forming those opinions, I don't collect any actual data to back them up. That's the job of the people actually tasked with scouting on my team, sitting up in the stands. Since the team alliance decisions are based solely on hard data and not opinions, my opinions never really seem to come up during the teams Friday evening meeting.
Conor Ryan
26-03-2015, 09:35
......and you get free food......what could be better?
Really GOOD free food (especially at the championships)!
i think there should be another thread devoted to finding which event has the BEST Volunteer Food. Food sometimes is a good example of exceptional attention to detail by the event planning committee.
Smoky Mountain was exceptional (great variety of bbq, menu changed daily), Buckeye is usually above average, Pittsburgh was mostly hot dogs, Lake Superior/Northern Lights is ok, I think I remember a lot of pasta, District Events generally don't have exceptional food, but since they are shorter events you don't eat as much, 3 days of regional events mean you get to eat a lot. Some off seasons have exceptional food, others do pizza and call it quits easily. I've heard from a couple of volunteers that Hawaii, Wisconsin and Las Vegas have had some of the best food around.
Food is also a year to year thing, sometimes its good sometimes your stuck with the venue that is hosting the event, but the event committee usually gets to pick the menu. Day to Day variety is key.
Running a new event and need to grow your volunteer base? Have exceptional food and you'll have a happy staff. Field side cookie delivery service is a bonus.
As for volunteering at an event your team is at, try the food, if its good stick around, or stick around because you like it. Then excuse yourself from any decisions where there are conflicts of interest, your fellow volunteers are allowed to ask for your help, but let them make the call.
It's also great for CAS (IB Diploma) or NHS volunteering hours, if you're still in high school. You won't get to be with your team as much, but you meet a lot of cool nice people. I think I got 21 hours over all three days on Field Reset. That's rounding down.
It's also been pointed out that free food is available, which is always good.
I have found the hardest part of volunteering at an event where your team is competing is paying attention to your assignment, to your part of field, to others interacting with you, when your team is on the field. It is very hard NOT to watch your team when it is competing.
Also, you need to develop a thick skin. When you hear someone hotly proclaiming (rightly or wrongly, usually wrongly) "so and so is with team xyz and he/she caused us to lose the match!", can you shake it off? It is more common than you think.
Can you avoid the temptation of talking to your team about certain events or people, to avoid breaking confidences or giving your team an unfair advantage?
But I encourage you to start volunteering. It does take time to "prove" yourself that you are mature and skilled enough to be a key volunteer, so don't get frustrated if you aren't assigned to your preferred position initially. Volunteering does give you a different perception of FIRST than you get as a team member, and you meet and become friends with a wider group of great people.
AdamHeard
26-03-2015, 11:51
GP or not it's wrong. You are either a volunteer or you are working with your team, not both. See ToddF posts earlier in the thread.
I agree for most roles, but there are some reasonable exceptions.
I volunteer as an inspector at pretty much every event we go to in case they need help.
Sometimes I inspect zero teams, sometimes I inspect a bunch...
I always tell the VC and LRI ahead of time.
Food sometimes is a good example of exceptional attention to detail by the event planning committee.
Food at the PNW district events is taken very seriously. The best food is obviously at CMP, but the local co-op at Mount Vernon provided some of the best lunches ever.
Just to add to the actual discussion, I'm a student that volunteers at a few too many events. Volunteering when your team is there is normal here in a district system because we need more volunteers, but might not make sense at a regional where they are likely to have an abundance of people, unless the VC specifically asks for more volunteers for certain positions. If you really want to volunteer go ahead, but remember that you can't be there to help your team, you are there for the entire event.
The best volunteer food I ever had was at Wisconsin, hands down.
The other Gabe
27-03-2015, 01:48
My team has an alumni from a few years ago that routinely refs, even at our competitions. Our Lead Mentor is often a Robot Inspector, My father was a queueer, and we usually have a few current team members doing various volunteerism jobs (especially at PNW Mount Vernon there were a lot of our guys)... as long as you can stay impartial, it really doesnt matter much
The other Gabe
27-03-2015, 01:50
GP or not it's wrong. You are either a volunteer or you are working with your team, not both. See ToddF posts earlier in the thread.
not to mention that you wouldnt have time to do that... or it would at least be quite difficult
i think there should be another thread devoted to finding which event has the BEST Volunteer Food. Food sometimes is a good example of exceptional attention to detail by the event planning committee.
Dallas had the most memorable dinner I had this year with barbecue beef brisket, ranch beans and mashed potatoes with this Italian Confetti cake for desert.
2012 Montreal was probably the best overall. They even had drinks in a cooler that I took whole liters of Passion fruit juice to the field. The red velvet cupcakes were insane.
Al Skierkiewicz
28-03-2015, 12:55
Ed,
You are easily pleased...Red Velvet cupcakes.
i think there should be another thread devoted to finding which event has the BEST Volunteer Food.
I believe that once upon a time we had a DESSERT CART FIELD SIDE at the Connecticut. Probably the best food hands down.
Caleb Sykes
28-03-2015, 18:46
I believe that once upon a time we had a DESSERT CART FIELD SIDE at the Connecticut. Probably the best food hands down.
Did it have cheesecake on it?
Did it have cheesecake on it?
It had all the cakes.
I believe that once upon a time we had a DESSERT CART FIELD SIDE at the Connecticut. Probably the best food hands down.
That was insane! I was an FTAA & there was no dessert at the volunteer lounge at lunch & that it was late. They promised it to us & would bring it down to the field & we could, at our discretion, quietly grab dessert 1 or 2 a t a time. Well that didn't happen. All the volunteers at the field stopped what they were doing at the next reset in between matches & raided the dessert table. Now that was such a sight in front of all the crowd! They never did that again!
Did it have cheesecake on it?
Yes it had multiple cheesecakes!
Volunteering at event that may have your team there shouldn't pose any problems. There are certain volunteers who have to sign a "conflict of interest" form, which you have to divulge your team association if you have a team. That being said as all the others have said, just go in with a neutral mind & treat your team just like all the others. As you can see by my credentials I have been Field Super for the Suffield Scrimmage since 2003 & started volunteering in 2009. Almost all the roles have been key volunteer role & it hasn't caused any conflict. I just tell my team what I expect from them & warn them they will not get any favors. I am usually more stern with them & they expect it. Those who know me find that I am very happy, funny, helpful & give accolades to all teams I meet both on & off the field.
Just remember 1st & foremost, you are there for the students. You will have a great time while volunteering, and that is a bonus. But if you are not having fun, don't do it. They can read you better than you think.
If you want food options... Ventura hit a home run with the volunteer food this year, with a local barbecue place. And the same place that is doing the volunteer food is also doing the snack bar. Not to mention the food trucks outside at lunchtime if you're so inclined...
'Nuff said.
Would volunteering for a job like field reset or assistant MC (Jobs with minimal to no impact on the actual game), and scouting for teams at the event be considered non-GP?
If you are asked for your opinion on robots based upon having been field side and seen a lot of matches, you should feel free to give your opinion and share in the scouting discussion. You should not be sitting down there with scouting sheets collecting data during matches.
I've volunteered a fair bit, both at events where I've been involved with 1 or more teams and at events where I've no connection to any of them. Since I've been on 2914, we've tried to provide 2 volunteers at every event we go to. They have mostly in positions like awards assistant, crowd control, field reset. I've been an FTA at events where I've had teams I've affiliation with, and I don't see any way around that anymore. I've been a mentor for 13 :ahh: years now on 5 different teams and currently work with 7 different teams on a regular basis.
With the need for volunteers increasing as we move to more events, particularly when an area jumps to districts, people associated with a team will end up in positions where they could have a direct impact on a match. Something that I think is important to remember, however, is that all volunteers have a direct impact on the student experience, and the student experience is what I try to keep in the forefront of my decisions and actions, and I would hope all volunteers do as well.
Wetzel
ATannahill
30-03-2015, 07:03
<snip>
If you really want to volunteer go ahead, but remember that you can't be there to help your team, you are there for the entire event.
This is not necessarily true. You do not have to volunteer for the full event.
I know a guy that inspects on Thursday and then works with his team on Friday and Saturday. You can tell the volunteer coordinator the times you are free and they will put you in a position to take advantage of that.
This is not necessarily true. You do not have to volunteer for the full event.
I know a guy that inspects on Thursday and then works with his team on Friday and Saturday. You can tell the volunteer coordinator the times you are free and they will put you in a position to take advantage of that.
We've also provided 2 volunteers for safety glasses, but we rotated team members through on 4 hour shifts so we had 6 or 7 different people fill one position. This doesn't work for everything, but VCs are awesome and can usually fit your needs with the events needs.
Realize that this is something of a necro, but since I'm the OP....just figured I'd let folks know that I've been assigned as a ref at the NYC regional. The VC's know me pretty well from my general involvement, and I'm reffing FTC as well this year (and will continue doing so - it's fun!). Still waiting for the other events I've applied to (Mt. Olive MAR district to get some week 1 experience, and Chesapeake DCMP, and CMP), but NYC is in the books. Looking forward to it!
rich2202
03-01-2016, 15:01
If you have mechanical tendencies, I recommend also volunteering as a Robot Inspector for the 1st day (or 2/3rds of the first day). During the first day, they can use all the RI's they can get. Not much to do as a Ref during the practice rounds when few robots show up. During that time, they can use RI's to get robots passed inspection. If you are doing multiple competitions, then you don't need the Ref practice the first day.
When I am Ref'ng, I don't call RI type faults, but I will tell an RI what I see so they can follow up.
If you have mechanical tendencies, I recommend also volunteering as a Robot Inspector for the 1st day (or 2/3rds of the first day). During the first day, they can use all the RI's they can get. Not much to do as a Ref during the practice rounds when few robots show up. During that time, they can use RI's to get robots passed inspection. If you are doing multiple competitions, then you don't need the Ref practice the first day.
When I am Ref'ng, I don't call RI type faults, but I will tell an RI what I see so they can follow up.
From experience, I will NOT ref and inspect at the same event. It will wipe you out. Will I put in for both? Sure. Will I ref and inspect at different events? Sure. But if push comes to shove, I'm more likely to be on the field.
Now, that may have something to do with my having to help train refs during 2014, having previously reffed the game, but even the first event was rough (and I did both then). Refs need the practice too, particularly at your first event of the season--and robots do show up, particularly with practice starting later.
My personal tendency is that if I have >1 team I am or have been affiliated with at an event, I'll try to stick to inspecting--I only have to avoid those teams (2/40 is actually pretty easy). If I'm reffing, it's a lot easier to work around 1 team than 2, particularly at smaller events when they'll come up every 4-5 matches or so each. (1 or 2 matches out of 6-7 matches is a bit harder to deal with.) And regardless of what teams are in the match, I do my best to call it the exact same way every time. Offseason events are another story--I'll call the same, but the number of teams I'm affiliated with doesn't matter (to me at least).
TL;DR
If your volunteers are affiliated with your team and they are model graciously professional members of the FIRST community, then integrity/bias and conflict of interest should not be an issue. As far as I can tell, it would be pretty hard to form a staff of volunteers at an event where none of them are affiliated with ANY of the teams, especially champs. It's logistically impractical.
______________________________
Members of my team who are parents or graduated students tend to do a lot of volunteering at local and distant events inside and outside FRC, including myself.
Sometimes we have too many 701 affiliated volunteers. I think one dilemma this season that I was discussing with our head coach is that we nearly had all 701 affiliated referees at a regional we would be attending. This is because our members are so eager to referee! Obviously we as a team, and the regional planners, would no allow that. I think it was Sacramento. It's not unusual to have a couple 701 affiliated referees - and sometimes head referee - at a regional we attend (mainly Sacramento and Central Valley) since these regionals are ones we attend regularly if not annually.
When we have a distant regional, we might have a referee or two from our team come with us because they volunteered at that regional for the convenience of coming with the team to the event.
I've never had integrity problems with our affiliated referees. They're super professional, and will not hesitate to call a well deserved foul on our own alliance. If they seem shady, then I'd have to address it personally. But again, this has never been a problem and I am confident that it will never be.
Refereeing an event that has an affiliated team on the roster doesn't have to be a problem, provided that the team's affiliated referee is absolutely GP and doesn't play favorites. This goes for any other volunteer position like inspection and queuing, which we also tend to have a high rate of 701 affiliated volunteers active in such positions. We just like to give back and contribute to the success of a well-run regional.
Now think about this: how many volunteers do you expect to be team affiliated at any given event? Well, if they're volunteering for an FRC event, chances are that they are! If there is a volunteer not team affiliated, then they have to had been contacted by someone from FIRST as an outsider (this is probably most common for judges), has gained a personal interest in the organization and is affiliated with NO teams whatsoever, or is affiliated with a team not attending. This would be impossible at champs, and the only way to keep volunteers away from their own teams at champs is to assign them to a different division.
Logistically, it would be quite impractical to plan an event where all the volunteers are unaffiliated. If this sort of event were to be planned, the first case is that volunteers would probably have to be contacted if they are not a part of FIRST since they may not be aware of event dates as compared to someone actively on a team. As mentioned, I usually see this case with judges. We even sometimes have a few 701 affiliated judges, and we don't let them talk to our team, so sometimes the choices of judges to talk to is further limited for us. It's great that we can provide our own members to judge, but it can get frustrating seeing someone in blue in the pits, and then realizing that they're one of your own and you gotta ignore them.
The other case is that the volunteer has to come from a team that is outside the region or is not attending. Finding the people out of the area willing to volunteer is not as easy as finding people from the area that are active in FIRST, and likely have a team competing at their respective event to which they are a volunteer. This is my own speculation of course, so anyone should correct me if I'm wrong.
When we have a distant regional, we might have a referee or two from our team come with us because they volunteered at that regional for the convenience of coming with the team to the event.
I've never had integrity problems with our affiliated referees. They're super professional, and will not hesitate to call a well deserved foul on our own alliance. If they seem shady, then I'd have to address it personally. But again, this has never been a problem and I am confident that it will never be. I'll vouch for that personally, having been on the same ref crew as at least a couple of 701 refs at an event 701 was at.
If you have mechanical tendencies, I recommend also volunteering as a Robot Inspector for the 1st day (or 2/3rds of the first day). During the first day, they can use all the RI's they can get. Not much to do as a Ref during the practice rounds when few robots show up. During that time, they can use RI's to get robots passed inspection. If you are doing multiple competitions, then you don't need the Ref practice the first day.
When I am Ref'ng, I don't call RI type faults, but I will tell an RI what I see so they can follow up.
This is what I've done for the past several years. I'll RI for the first day, and then ref for the following two. Luckily enough for me, I'm just out of college and still have the energy to do it, and I love it. Our volunteers are all like family at my home regional, so I get to see a bit of everyone.
Also, during ref times, the head ref usually asks me to just keep a general eye out for RI faults that are major while teams are queuing or getting on the field. So that we can try to get those taken care of and let the team still compete in their match :)
rich2202
06-01-2016, 22:16
Also, during ref times, the head ref usually asks me to just keep a general eye out for RI faults that are major while teams are queuing or getting on the field. So that we can try to get those taken care of and let the team still compete in their match :)
I do battery checks to make sure that they are tied down.
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