2015 CMP Representation by District/Region [Archive]

Navid Shafa

09-04-2015, 22:16

I did this last year, thought it would be fun to do again:

Spreadsheet Link (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18jECWpn4VZ__61AzVZxATqSvUsY5KgU14gCp0x0GOjQ/edit#gid=690246493)

Green denotes an existing district
Yellow are states/regions where size could potentially allow a district/mini-district
Red are smaller regions

Also keep in mind that this is currently under-inflated as it does not include wild-card or waitlist teams, just the allotment established at the beginning of the season. I will update to include this after championship registration has closed.

*Big thanks to Andrew Schreiber for helping me clean up the process this time around.

smistthegreat

10-04-2015, 08:50

Hgree56

10-04-2015, 09:04

I would love to see Israel go to a District model too. They seem ready for it; just like those of us in Indiana were ready for it. Districts work amazingly too! I think any State/Country that can go District should.

notmattlythgoe

10-04-2015, 09:11

I'm curious, what is the reason the rest of the PA teams haven't been pulled into MAR?

Also, can I assume that DC was included in Virginia's count?

mklinker

10-04-2015, 09:14

notmattlythgoe

10-04-2015, 09:19

I think Indiana has proven that a "mini" district model can work very well. I am curious why you listed Indiana as the smallest possible district? I think that the model could be used in even smaller settings.

My guess is because it has been proven to work at that size, so anything smaller is theoretical.

smistthegreat

10-04-2015, 09:22

I'm curious, what is the reason the rest of the PA teams haven't been pulled into MAR?

Also, can I assume that DC was included in Virginia's count?

I've always assumed western PA isn't part of MAR just because of geography. It would make a lot more sense to lump the Pittsburg and Erie teams in with either Ohio or western NY.

Bryan Herbst

10-04-2015, 09:22

Most under-represented regions:
- Minnesota, -16

Some random thoughts I had after seeing this:
- Is there a reason Minnesota hasn't gone districts yet?

From what I have heard from our RPC, the biggest roadblock right now is our volunteer base. While we are actively expanding our key volunteer base, we are simply not in a position to jump from 4 events to ~12 events right now.

notmattlythgoe

10-04-2015, 09:27

I've always assumed western PA isn't part of MAR just because of geography. It would make a lot more sense to lump the Pittsburg and Erie teams in with either Ohio or western NY.

I can buy that, but VA, MD, and DC are going to be separated by basically the same distance. However, the geography would make more sense with Ohio and Western NY and the numbers would probably work out well.

Gregor

10-04-2015, 09:36

From what I have heard from our RPC, the biggest roadblock right now is our volunteer base. While we are actively expanding our key volunteer base, we are simply not in a position to jump from 4 events to ~12 events right now.

Maybe that's because your volunteers are always competing because there are only 2 weeks of events. If I lived in Minnesota I would never be able to volunteer but there are enough events around me that I can volunteer when I'm not competing with my team.

notmattlythgoe

10-04-2015, 09:43

From what I have heard from our RPC, the biggest roadblock right now is our volunteer base. While we are actively expanding our key volunteer base, we are simply not in a position to jump from 4 events to ~12 events right now.

I've always had the opinion that you aren't going to expand your volunteer base until the need is actually there. It may be painful for a year or 2, but without the spots to fill you can only pull in so many new volunteers.

Jimmy Nichols

10-04-2015, 09:52

I've always had the opinion that you aren't going to expand your volunteer base until the need is actually there. It may be painful for a year or 2, but without the spots to fill you can only pull in so many new volunteers.

To prepare for Districts in Ohio we have been doubling and tripling up the Key volunteer positions at the Regional s to on board more folks in those roles. We have been doing the same thing at the Off-season events.

notmattlythgoe

10-04-2015, 09:54

To prepare for Districts in Ohio we have been doubling and tripling up the Key volunteer positions at the Regional s to on board more folks in those roles. We have been doing the same thing at the Off-season events.

That is a good strategy, and one that our region seemed to be doing this year too. What are the plans for Ohio and districts?

mwmac

10-04-2015, 10:00

Most under-represented regions:
- Minnesota, -16
- California, -7
- New York, -6
- Israel, -5
- China, -5
- Kansas, -5

Some random thoughts I had after seeing this:
- Is there a reason Minnesota hasn't gone districts yet?
- Am I the only one who didn't realize China has 23 teams!?
- I'd love to see Israel go to districts on an Indiana scale.
- New York districts ASAP, please.

Not so quick Sparky... as a proud member of the Otherians, I state emphatically that we are the most underrepresented region at the Championship and call on First to implement a plan for the conversion of the Otherian region to the District model forthwith...

(Couldn't resist...humor, its good for what ails you.)

MikeE

10-04-2015, 10:04

Thanks Navid - it's really interesting to see the differences in Regional and team distribution.

I think Indiana has proven that a "mini" district model can work very well. I am curious why you listed Indiana as the smallest possible district? I think that the model could be used in even smaller settings.

Districts don't make as much sense if the team population is lower than ~150% of a event size, allowing 3 district events + district championship. Typically District events are 40 teams although PNW has smaller events.

A district of only 30-40 teams would mean both events + district "championship" had every team competing, so it's not really a championship in any traditional sense*

This puts a practical lower limit of around 50 teams for a District.

* too soon?

Jimmy Nichols

10-04-2015, 10:17

That is a good strategy, and one that our region seemed to be doing this year too. What are the plans for Ohio and districts?

We shared at Buckeye and QCR meetings for OhioFIRST that we are looking at two options:

Ohio, Western PA, WV
Ohio, Western PA, WV, Western NY

We are pulling information together to be able to present to FIRST within the next 6 months our proposal with the hopes of switching for the 2017 competition season.

notmattlythgoe

10-04-2015, 10:18

We shared at Buckeye and QCR meetings for OhioFIRST that we are looking at two options:

Ohio, Western PA, WV
Ohio, Western PA, WV, Western NY

We are pulling information together to be able to present to FIRST within the next 6 months our proposal with the hopes of switching for the 2017 competition season.

Very cool. Good luck.

Jimmy Nichols

10-04-2015, 10:21

Very cool. Good luck.

Thanks, good luck to you all as well!

notmattlythgoe

10-04-2015, 10:22

Thanks, good luck to you all as well!

Thanks, it seems like it is happening no matter what now. Just gotta make the transition as smooth as we can for teams.

Navid Shafa

10-04-2015, 13:02

My guess is because it has been proven to work at that size, so anything smaller is theoretical.

Bingo, the colors are fairly arbitrary...

Not so quick Sparky... as a proud member of the Otherians, I state emphatically that we are the most underrepresented region at the Championship and call on First to implement a plan for the conversion of the Otherian region to the District model forthwith...

(Couldn't resist...humor, its good for what ails you.)

Just for you, Idaho now has it's own category on the spreadsheet. ;)

tindleroot

10-04-2015, 15:41

Navid Shafa

10-04-2015, 15:50

Navid, last I checked Indiana is sending 14 teams, not 10. (3 are from wildcards, though). Also, 11 was theoretical, not 10, since we were given 10 spots from FIRST plus our legacy team (45) goes every year.

Yes, that is correct (waitlist):

Also keep in mind that this is currently under-inflated as it does not include wild-card or waitlist teams, just the allotment established at the beginning of the season. I will update to include this after championship registration has closed.

nikeairmancurry

13-04-2015, 09:24

Michigan is sending 90 teams.

A fair amount of teams got through on the wait-list.

Two world champs from last year and 3 Legacy teams.

Andrew Schreiber

13-04-2015, 10:03

wilsonmw04

13-04-2015, 10:22

Can we get a confirmation that DC was lumped in with VA?

notmattlythgoe

13-04-2015, 10:24

Can we get a confirmation that DC was lumped in with VA?

I'm assuming it is because he has 2 VA regionals listed.

Andrew Schreiber

13-04-2015, 10:26

I'm assuming it is because he has 2 VA regionals listed.

It was. The query that populates the event counts operates off of the Location of the event. DC regional is "Fairfax, VA USA" which means it snags VA USA as the state.

notmattlythgoe

13-04-2015, 10:28

It was. The query that populates the event counts operates off of the Location of the event. DC regional is "Fairfax, VA USA" which means it snags VA USA as the state.

Did the DC team count get lumped in with Virginia then?

Jon Stratis

13-04-2015, 10:30

For MN, I can tell you that our key volunteer base is actively growing, and is also our biggest concern with switching to districts. Back in 2011, there was 1 PRO in the state, and 3 events. Let that sink in for a minute.

Since then, I became an LRI in 2012, and have identified (so far) 5 additional LRI's, two of which handled events this year, one was in training this year and will have an event next year, one is figuring out work stuff this year, an will hopefully be able to commit next year to training, and the last is getting ambushed at champs next week to be asked to step up.

Thats huge growth in the key volunteer base (from an inspection point of view), and it means that we're approaching feasibility (I see feasibility as requiring no volunteer to do more than 2 events, plus the championship). The remaining problem is... Which key volunteers (almost all of whom live in the cities) are going to be the ones to drive up to Fargo or Duluth (for example) to handle events? A vast majority of our events are staffed by volunteers from the team's at that event - if the teams from the cities don't travel, then we have a real staffing issue in those out-state events. I probably wouldn't have been volunteering in Duluth all these years without my team competing there. It will be painful the first few years we go to districts, but will hopefully then resolve itself.

Andrew Schreiber

13-04-2015, 10:32

Did the DC team count get lumped in with Virginia then?

I would assume so, but I'd have to wait for Navid to comment on that one. I didn't help him with that chunk.

wilsonmw04

13-04-2015, 10:36

It was. The query that populates the event counts operates off of the Location of the event. DC regional is "Fairfax, VA USA" which means it snags VA USA as the state.

If a DC team went to the "DC" event they are counted as VA. If they went to Chesapeake they are MD>

Lil' Lavery

13-04-2015, 10:44

If a DC team went to the "DC" event they are counted as VA. If they went to Chesapeake they are MD>

What if they went to both?

Wetzel

13-04-2015, 10:50

If a DC team went to the "DC" event they are counted as VA. If they went to Chesapeake they are MD>

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt84/SVT-GT500/smileys/mob-smiley.gif

wilsonmw04

13-04-2015, 10:56

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt84/SVT-GT500/smileys/mob-smiley.gif

That escalated quickly...

Nate Laverdure

13-04-2015, 11:03

If a DC team went to the "DC" event they are counted as VA. If they went to Chesapeake they are MD>
No, this can't be right. The spreadsheet is not that elaborate. There are truly ~75 active teams in VA (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=searchresults&programs=FRC&reports=teams&sort_teams=number&results_size=250&omit_searchform=1&season_FRC=2015&area=va-usa), like the spreadsheet says. The 13 DC teams (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=searchresults&programs=FRC&reports=teams&sort_teams=number&results_size=250&omit_searchform=1&season_FRC=2015&area=dc-usa) are probably filed under "Other" (sorry Wetzel).

jvriezen

13-04-2015, 11:15

The remaining problem is... Which key volunteers (almost all of whom live in the cities) are going to be the ones to drive up to Fargo or Duluth (for example) to handle events? A vast majority of our events are staffed by volunteers from the team's at that event - if the teams from the cities don't travel, then we have a real staffing issue in those out-state events. (emphasis mine)

Just to clarify for those outside of MN, 'cities' is local short hand for 'Twin Cities' which is short hand for Minneapolis/St. Paul (and in this case, surrounding suburbs)

Oh, and with the exception of Fargo (ND), Duluth, MN and other potential future locations in MN are actually 'in' state, not 'out' state. (A peeve of some of us from MN but not from the 'cities')

forbes

13-04-2015, 11:40

Here is a spreadsheet of ACTUAL championship representation by State/Country:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XokqrLPsw7b5dD7fvRYqb7favVMIdNvz-l4PpbsgFM0/edit?usp=sharing

Navid Shafa

13-04-2015, 13:52

No, this can't be right. The spreadsheet is not that elaborate. There are truly ~75 active teams in VA (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=searchresults&programs=FRC&reports=teams&sort_teams=number&results_size=250&omit_searchform=1&season_FRC=2015&area=va-usa), like the spreadsheet says. The 13 DC teams (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=searchresults&programs=FRC&reports=teams&sort_teams=number&results_size=250&omit_searchform=1&season_FRC=2015&area=dc-usa) are probably filed under "Other" (sorry Wetzel).

Yep, nailed it Nate.

forbes

13-04-2015, 14:40

Here is a spreadsheet of ACTUAL championship representation by State/Country:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XokqrLPsw7b5dD7fvRYqb7favVMIdNvz-l4PpbsgFM0/edit?usp=sharing

Using the same strategy, I built a quick map (http://championship-notifier.evanforbes.net:3000/representation) showing the USA team representation visually at championship.evanforbes.net (http://championship.evanforbes.net).

lynca

13-04-2015, 15:03

Using the same strategy, I built a quick map (http://championship-notifier.evanforbes.net:3000/representation) showing the USA team representation visually at championship.evanforbes.net (http://championship.evanforbes.net).

This is amazing stuff ! it would be awesome if we could do this year by year to see how the colors change.

forbes

13-04-2015, 16:44

This is amazing stuff ! it would be awesome if we could do this year by year to see how the colors change.

I don't have historical data at my fingertips currently.

If someone does and can provide me with a spreadsheet in a form similar to below I can add it to the map eventually.

Year | 2 Letter State Abbr. | Total Number of Teams | Number of Teams at Championship
2015 | OK | 48 | 2
.
.
.

BigBen

13-04-2015, 20:51

Poor Nebraska, someone really should help them at least get started down this wonderful rabbit hole of a journey.

cadandcookies

13-04-2015, 20:57

Poor Nebraska, someone really should help them at least get started down this wonderful rabbit hole of a journey.

They have a rapidly growing FTC program-- this time last year, there were almost no teams in the state (I think there may have been one), and now I believe there are more than 10. I'd be surprised if a new FRC team didn't spring up sooner rather than later.

Dunngeon

13-04-2015, 22:57

Using the same strategy, I built a quick map (http://championship-notifier.evanforbes.net:3000/representation) showing the USA team representation visually at championship.evanforbes.net (http://championship.evanforbes.net).

One request, could you change the states with no teams from grey to black? The grey is very similar to the light pink that many states have.

Mr.Paulson

13-04-2015, 22:58

Just to clarify for those outside of MN, 'cities' is local short hand for 'Twin Cities' which is short hand for Minneapolis/St. Paul (and in this case, surrounding suburbs)

Oh, and with the exception of Fargo (ND), Duluth, MN and other potential future locations in MN are actually 'in' state, not 'out' state. (A peeve of some of us from MN but not from the 'cities')

As an 'out' state team, we would be willing to travel for the district model. It would be NICE to have a local event but not necessary. We would definitely sacrifice to go to the district model!

forbes

13-04-2015, 22:59

One request, could you change the states with no teams from grey to black? The grey is very similar to the light pink that many states have.

Nebraska is the only state with no teams, and it seems pretty distinct from the rest as far as I can tell.

Alex2614

14-04-2015, 04:26

Thanks Navid - it's really interesting to see the differences in Regional and team distribution.

Districts don't make as much sense if the team population is lower than ~150% of a event size, allowing 3 district events + district championship. Typically District events are 40 teams although PNW has smaller events.

A district of only 30-40 teams would mean both events + district "championship" had every team competing, so it's not really a championship in any traditional sense*

This puts a practical lower limit of around 50 teams for a District.

* too soon?

True, however, these areas can be lumped in with nearby districts. For example, here in West Virginia, we only have 4 teams. We hosted the state's first ever FRC event last summer in the off-season. But as stated above, we will likely be going into districts with Ohio and Western PA in 2017.

Districts will eventually happen everywhere. Because it's a hard sell to rural teams (who are already disadvantaged in that aspect) to pay 5,000 to go to an event and an additional several thousand if you want to go to another event that is really far away (think the next closest area with a regional), when more "urban" teams (or teams in districts) get a cost break, and more matches for less money. Districts will happen everywhere, even if that means that the "remaining" teams will lump into a nearby district. It is not really sustainable otherwise.

Alex2614

14-04-2015, 04:29

Andrew Schreiber

14-04-2015, 08:39

I don't have historical data at my fingertips currently.

If someone does and can provide me with a spreadsheet in a form similar to below I can add it to the map eventually.

Year | 2 Letter State Abbr. | Total Number of Teams | Number of Teams at Championship
2015 | OK | 48 | 2
.
.
.

I guess this means I should fire up postgres and write that query.

Navid Shafa

15-04-2015, 03:39

Navid, speaking of West Virginia, why are we not represented in the spreadsheet? Is it because there is no event in WV? There are four teams here, and three of them are registered for the championship.

Because West Virginia is small and doesn't have an event. I added it to the spreadsheet now for you though :P

Alex2614

15-04-2015, 08:46

Because West Virginia is small and doesn't have an event. I added it to the spreadsheet now for you though :P

Haha, I was just curious, I figured that was the reason; no biggie. Thanks though :)

Usually, it's because people don't know that WV is a state (you'd be surprised) or they lump us in with VA by mistake.

It's small now, but just wait :ahh:

BSV

15-04-2015, 11:05

Using the same strategy, I built a quick map (http://championship-notifier.evanforbes.net:3000/representation) showing the USA team representation visually at championship.evanforbes.net (http://championship.evanforbes.net).
Be sure to show that to our Regional Director. It makes a great argument for OK going to a district model.