2015 Champs Predictions

[LDiDomenico]

With the release of divisions, who will come out on top?
(Lets see how off I am by Saturday :D)

Archimedes
1023-1538-503-51
Carson
254-1730-1711-1058
Carver
971-1986-2337-3507
Curie
1114-148-1816-5572
Galileo
2056-1619-365-5498
Hopper
987-548-4265-223
Newton
118-1678-5012-3137
Tesla
624-2481-319-1323

Quarterfinalists- Tesla,Hopper, Archimedes, Carver
Semifinalists- Galileo, Curie
Finalists- Newton
Winners- Carson

Honestly, predictions for Einstein are very hard because of the variables generated by the can wars. I think all of these alliances have a shot of winning Einstein.

[Bryce Paputa]

Us as third pick of the first alliance? I wish but I think we'll get picked before then.

That or it's possible that someone beats 1023 out for first seed, but with their three capped stacks and twenty point auto I don't foresee that happening.

I'm predicting that a alliance with two Michigan teams will win Archimedes, but which two we'll have to see.

[Brooks_jonathan]

I think a tether bot, either 1296 or 4587, is going to come out of Carson with 254.

[Cash4587]

I think a tether bot, either 1296 or 4587, is going to come out of Carson with 254.

I agree. lol. :p

[Link07]

With the release of divisions, who will come out on top?
(Lets see how off I am by Saturday :D)

Archimedes
1023-1538-503
Carson
254-1730-1711
Carver
971-1986-2337
Curie
1114-148-1816
Galileo
2056-1619-365
Hopper
987-548-4265
Newton
118-1678-5012
Tesla
624-2481-319

Quarterfinalists- Tesla,Hopper, Archimedes, Carver
Semifinalists- Galileo, Curie
Finalists- Newton
Winners- Carson

Honestly, predictions for Einstein are very hard because of the variables generated by the can wars. I think all of these alliances have a shot of winning Einstein.

No 4th bots?

[LDiDomenico]

No 4th bots?

Whoops, I forgot about that I will have to edit that once I get some spare time. :ahh:

[LiamN2046]

Curie
1114-148-1816


I don't really think that a two can grabber is going to last until the 24th pick but I guess it depends on how many two can grabbers are on the field

[John_freemen]

I agree. lol. :p

1296 put up 5 stacks of 5 in OKC a couple times I believe. And 4587 has improved greatly since their first regional. it will be fun to watch those teams battle for that 2nd seed.

[Jaywalker1711]

Carson
254-1730-1711


Thanks for the mention!

The things I would do for this to happen though....

[CaityDawh]

I think a tether bot, either 1296 or 4587, is going to come out of Carson with 254.

Do you mean as a first pick or second?
I don't really think it would matter if the robot was tether or not. There are amazing teams that are tethered and not tethered. There isn't a substantially big difference between how good tethered robots are vs. non-tethered in general. If 254 is the #1 seed I think they will pick a team that can either make 3 stacks of 6 capped, or a team that can at minimum make 2 stacks of 6 capped and grab containers from the step, for their 1st pick. And cheesecake their second pick. That will optimize the points they can make. Weather the robot is tethered or not I don't think will make a difference.

[Brooks_jonathan]

Do you mean as a first pick or second?
I don't really think it would matter if the robot was tether or not. There are amazing teams that are tethered and not tethered. There isn't a substantially big difference between how good tethered robots are vs. non-tethered in general. If 254 is the #1 seed I think they will pick a team that can either make 3 stacks of 6 capped, or a team that can at minimum make 2 stacks of 6 capped and grab containers from the step, for their 1st pick. And cheesecake their second pick. That will optimize the points they can make. Weather the robot is tethered or not I don't think will make a difference.

I mean as the first pick. Both of these teams can put out 18 totes minimum from the HP. I agree that there isn't a large difference between tether bot and non tethered bot, that being said the difference can be 1 5/6 stack and those 30-42 points can be very helpful in seeding. Will Be interesting to see how everything plays out! Best of luck to your team!

[MikLast]

i cant be the only one looking for a PNW team to go to Einstein...

[Bluman56]

i cant be the only one looking for a PNW team to go to Einstein...

Yeah seriously, how is 4488 not even mentioned? They are such a consistent team it blows my mind how they are still overlooked.

[King Boopington]

I completely agree... what 254 needs is a partner that has hella quick burglars, can make 3-4 stacks, and can stay OUT of their way.

[Jacob Bendicksen]

Yeah seriously, how is 4488 not even mentioned? They are such a consistent team it blows my mind how they are still overlooked.

I think that 4488 has the best shot of any PNW team for making it to Einstein - despite their (relative) youth, they know exactly what they're doing. Also, I wouldn't consider them 'overlooked' at this point, seeing as they made it to IRI last year as a second-year team :rolleyes:

[Kevin Leonard]

Archimedes: 1310-4451-188-4334 QF
Carson: 254-973-1241-5122 SF
Carver: 4967-1625-829-216 QF
Curie: 148-1114-341-900 F
Galileo: 1690-27-191-237 QF
Hopper: 2826-987-4265-223 W
Newton: 195-3310-190-1111 SF
Tesla: 2481-3824-1323-3847 QF

I like predicting crazy upsets that are going to be totally wrong.
Plus I personally just want to see a few of these teams go to Einstein. Maybe if I just will it hard enough... :P

[MichaelBick]

I completely agree... what 254 needs is a partner that has hella quick burglars, can make 3-4 stacks, and can stay OUT of their way.

Agreed. I think tether bots actually are a negative in that respect as they cannot run can burglars and so instead must be able to do a 3 tote auto and ideally have extra weight to tether a partner's ramp.

[King Boopington]

[QUOTE=Kevin Leonard;1471846]Archimedes: 1310-4451-188-4334 QF
Carson: 254-973-1241-5122 SF
Carver: 4967-1625-829-216 QF
Curie: 148-1114-341-900 F
Galileo: 1690-27-191-237 QF
Hopper: 2826-987-4265-223 W
Newton: 195-3310-190-1111 SF
Tesla: 2481-3824-1323-3847 QF QUOTE]

WOW!! No 118-1678 combo from newton?

[King Boopington]

Agreed. I think tether bots actually are a negative in that respect as they cannot run can burglars and so instead must be able to do a 3 tote auto and ideally have extra weight to tether a partner's ramp.
And if you're playing with a team like the poofs who put up hella stacks, the 3 tote auto isn't nearly as good as the bonus from cans

[Kevin Leonard]

Archimedes: 1310-4451-188-4334 QF
Carson: 254-973-1241-5122 SF
Carver: 4967-1625-829-216 QF
Curie: 148-1114-341-900 F
Galileo: 1690-27-191-237 QF
Hopper: 2826-987-4265-223 W
Newton: 195-3310-190-1111 SF
Tesla: 2481-3824-1323-3847 QF QUOTE]

WOW!! No 118-1678 combo from newton?

I like upsets.

[Greg Needel]

And if you're playing with a team like the poofs who put up hella stacks, the 3 tote auto isn't nearly as good as the bonus from cans

I think the 20 pt autons are going to play a factor in elms.

Don't for get about the 3rd and 4th robot. There will be cheesecake all over the championship.

I could see top tier teams bringing a spare set of <.25 second whips that easily bolt on a kitbot, and those alliances intentionally picking 3rd rounders with almost no functionality just to modify. They don't even need to play in most matches, just the ones where all 4 cans are contested. If an alliance can consistently make 5 - 6 stacks with cans + noodles they make it to Einstein.

Winning the big show it will be more important to get the center cans, just to deprive the other alliance of scoring potential, but you won't need all the cans advance.

[dodar]

Archimedes: 1023, 2338, 3322, 4334

Carson: 254, 1296, 1711, 3256

Carver: 971, 1717, 2337, 2630

Curie: 1114, 148, 3193, 4595

Galileo: 2451, 27, 2168, 111

Hopper: 987, 469, 125, 2530

Newton: 195, 118, 175, 1111

Tesla: 1806, 624, 319, 1523

[The other Gabe]

I think a tether bot, either 1296 or 4587, is going to come out of Carson with 254.

nah... have you seen 4488? them and 254 would be nigh unstoppable together

[The other Gabe]

I don't really think that a two can grabber is going to last until the 24th pick but I guess it depends on how many two can grabbers are on the field

Looking through so far, I think you're right. it might end up being us as that 3rd pick, actually...

[Michael Corsetto]

Carson
254-1730-1711
Newton
118-1678-5012

Finalists- Newton
Winners- Carson

Ugh, we have to loose to 254 in the finals again? :rolleyes:

[Jeremy Germita]

Carson
254-1730-1711
Newton
118-1678-5012

Finalists- Newton
Winners- CarsonUgh, we have to loose to 254 in the finals again? :rolleyes:

We'd be happy to help you change that. :)

[Dan Petrovic]

Ugh, we have to loose to 254 in the finals again? :rolleyes:

What I would give to have that honor...

[marshall]

Archimedes: 1310-4451-188-4334 QF
Carson: 254-973-1241-5122 SF
Carver: 4967-1625-829-216 QF
Curie: 148-1114-341-900 F
Galileo: 1690-27-191-237 QF
Hopper: 2826-987-4265-223 W
Newton: 195-3310-190-1111 SF
Tesla: 2481-3824-1323-3847 QF


Totally honored that you think we are good enough as a 4th pick. We shall just have to see. In the meantime, here's our new autonomous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqHk50xX1_A

[MichaelBick]

I think the 20 pt autons are going to play a factor in elms.


It still seems like 254's best option is to pick another fast can grabber. There is the possibility of 3 tote autos being left later in the draft and they always have the option to cheesecake with their already fast can grabber.

[ijonny5]

Archimedes: 1310-4451-188-4334 QF
Carson: 254-973-1241-5122 SF
Carver: 4967-1625-829-216 QF
Curie: 148-1114-341-900 F
Galileo: 1690-27-191-237 QF
Hopper: 2826-987-4265-223 W
Newton: 195-3310-190-1111 SF
Tesla: 2481-3824-1323-3847 QF

I like predicting crazy upsets that are going to be totally wrong.
Plus I personally just want to see a few of these teams go to Einstein. Maybe if I just will it hard enough... :P
I like the way you think!

[JohnSchneider]

[QUOTE=Kevin Leonard;1471846]Archimedes: 1310-4451-188-4334 QF
Carson: 254-973-1241-5122 SF
Carver: 4967-1625-829-216 QF
Curie: 148-1114-341-900 F
Galileo: 1690-27-191-237 QF
Hopper: 2826-987-4265-223 W
Newton: 195-3310-190-1111 SF
Tesla: 2481-3824-1323-3847 QF QUOTE]

WOW!! No 118-1678 combo from newton?

You could just be supportive :(

[MrJohnston]

I need to do some more scouting before having an actual prediction, but I do think that many of these "guesses" are missing a major point: Canburgling.

Look at most of the Curie predictions: 148 and 1114 top everybody's list. There is no doubt in my mind that they are the two strongest robots in that division. However, neither has much canburgling ability (at least as of yet). If they work together as the #1 alliance in Curie, their third pick is not likely to have a great canburgler. In other words they could be facing the prospects of frequently only having access to 3 recycling containers. So... 3 x 42pt stacks + 20 auto + 30 more tote points (?) = 176 pts. That won't get them out of the quarterfinals.

So, let's say 1114 is #1 out of qualifications. Do they dare pick 148? That question comes down to: Have they developed a fast enough autonomous can-grabber to be able to afford to do so? Or, do they need to grave for the fastest two-can auto grabber in Curie, whomever that might be? Of course if 148 is #1, they are going to have to look at 1114 and determine if they have the ability to win the center bin wars. If not, do they dare pick 1114?

The fact of the matter is: That first pick in alliance selection is, in all likelihood, going to be the fastest and most accurate can grabber available. With countless teams developing grabbers right now, it is impossible to know who that will actually be.

In all divisions, I predict that the #1 captain will be somebody who individually puts up 120-140 points per match - three stack capability. That captain will then pick the fastest/best two-can grabber in the division so long as it can put up about 40 points. The third pick will be the best available two-can grabber. The fourth - a robot that can put up some points, but may only have the ability to grab one recycling container.

What I like about this: The competition is wide open. Starting right now, if you can build the fastest two bin grabber, you have a legitimate shot at getting yourself onto Einstein.

What I find both scary and exciting: The world's fastest canburgler may not present itself until elimination rounds - or even division finals.

Yes, this year's championships could be decided by cheesecake.

[orangelight]

I expect all consistent and fast canburglars to be gone before second pick begins

[Kevin Leonard]

I expect all consistent and fast canburglars to be gone before second pick begins

I don't.
For two reasons:
1) There are a lot of good canburglars
2) Teams don't scout well as a rule

[Abhishek R]

I don't.
For two reasons:
1) There are a lot of good canburglars
2) Teams don;t scout well as a rule

Plus the fact that you have to be able to convert those cans to stacks, and it's entirely possible some of the fastest canburglars are not very good stackers.

[Pretzel]

I wonder if anyone's been developing some crazy autonomous that is both a canburglar and a 3-tote auto. Some of the teams like 1114 and 254 certainly stack fast enough to make it a possibility, even if it would be quite the programming challenge (or it could be impossibl, I don't know).

[Ty Tremblay]

With the release of divisions, who will come out on top?
(Lets see how off I am by Saturday :D)

Archimedes
1023-1538-503-51
Carson
254-1730-1711-1058
Carver
971-1986-2337-3507
Curie
1114-148-1816-5572
Galileo
2056-1619-365-5498
Hopper
987-548-4265-223
Newton
118-1678-5012-3137
Tesla
624-2481-319-1323

Quarterfinalists- Tesla,Hopper, Archimedes, Carver
Semifinalists- Galileo, Curie
Finalists- Newton
Winners- Carson

Honestly, predictions for Einstein are very hard because of the variables generated by the can wars. I think all of these alliances have a shot of winning Einstein.

Exciting to see 319 on here! We'll be bringing our 20-point auto, landfill stacks, and fast capping to Tesla!

[Gweiss96]

I wonder if anyone's been developing some crazy autonomous that is both a canburglar and a 3-tote auto. Some of the teams like 1114 and 254 certainly stack fast enough to make it a possibility, even if it would be quite the programming challenge (or it could be impossibl, I don't know).

That seems really difficult. I think you would need to do one or the other, but have an alliance partner that can do the other task.

[kathrynmariel]

Archimedes: 1310-4451-188-4334 QF
Carson: 254-973-1241-5122 SF
Carver: 4967-1625-829-216 QF
Curie: 148-1114-341-900 F
Galileo: 1690-27-191-237 QF
Hopper: 2826-987-4265-223 W
Newton: 195-3310-190-1111 SF
Tesla: 2481-3824-1323-3847 QF

I like predicting crazy upsets that are going to be totally wrong.
Plus I personally just want to see a few of these teams go to Einstein. Maybe if I just will it hard enough... :P
I like this! ;)

And I definitely see team 195 going to Einstein!

[M1KRONAUT]

I don't exactly know how the championships work, but I wouldn't be surprised if 1114 and 254 end up together and dominate.

[Hot_Copper_Frog]

I don't.
For two reasons:
1) There are a lot of good canburglars
2) Teams don't scout well as a rule

This is so painful. 503 has been living and breathing data this season, and we've gotten to the point where we can churn out an ideal pick list for every alliance captain. Watching teams with great bots squander their picks on incompatible alliance partners makes my head hurt.

...#scoutlifeproblems?

[Peyton Yeung]

I don't exactly know how the championships work, but I wouldn't be surprised if 1114 and 254 end up together and dominate.

They are in different divisions so it won't happen unfortunately.

[Lidor51]

Archimedes: 1023, 1640, 4334, 836

Carson: 254, 4488, 3339, 2283

Carver: 971, 1717, 2337, 2630

Curie: 1114, 148, 1816, 228

Galileo: 2056, 1690, 237, 2168

Hopper: 2826, 987, 223, 78

Newton: 118, 1678, 1111, 3940

Tesla: 624, 1806, 340, 1323

[Jay O'Donnell]

Carson
254-1730-1711-1058

Winners- Carson

It's nice to see our team get noticed! We're hoping to get picked a little higher in the draft but we wouldn't mind this alliance at all!

[Anthony Galea]

I will only predict alliance captain and first pick because I have no idea what teams are looking for in their third/fourth bots.

Archimedes: 1023-1538
Carson: 254-4488
Carver: 359-1024
Curie: 1114-148
Galileo: 2056-27
Hopper: 987-469
Newton: 1678-3310
Tesla: 624-3476

[howdosheeplamp]

I need to do some more scouting before having an actual prediction, but I do think that many of these "guesses" are missing a major point: Canburgling.

Look at most of the Curie predictions: 148 and 1114 top everybody's list. There is no doubt in my mind that they are the two strongest robots in that division. However, neither has much canburgling ability (at least as of yet). If they work together as the #1 alliance in Curie, their third pick is not likely to have a great canburgler. In other words they could be facing the prospects of frequently only having access to 3 recycling containers. So... 3 x 42pt stacks + 20 auto + 30 more tote points (?) = 176 pts. That won't get them out of the quarterfinals.

So, let's say 1114 is #1 out of qualifications. Do they dare pick 148?..


Really? From what I have seen, it is pretty reasonable to think that 1114 and 148 can use every single tote on their side of the field, especially since they are not capping all their stacks. 1114 uses all landfill totes for 3 stacks of 6 and then another from their ramp from HP load. 148 uses the remaining 24 totes in the HP to make 4 stacks of their own.
-They definitely have 3 containers, and will make 42(3) = 126 pts
-Since both have a 3 tote auto it is likely that they will get the 20 pts bonus
-After their first 3, they make 5 other stacks of totes 6 high = 30(2) = 60 pts
-They have 7 noodles left over, which I will assume they will just save

results in 206 points if they are completely robbed of cans.
each recycling container that they get will convert 6 totes (12) to a capped 6-stack (42), so a 30 point bonus.

TL;DR
for 1114 and 148, they score:
with no step cans: ~206 (7 litter in reserve)
with 1: ~236 (6 litter in reserve)
with 2: ~266 (5 litter in reserve)
with 3: ~296 (4 litter in reserve)
with 4: ~326 (3 litter in reserve)

They have incentive to pick each other. To beat them, you need to steal all 4 step cans and at least put up points equivalent to 5 stacks of 6 worth of points. (210)

Any predictions at this point for canburglars are pointless because so many teams will have better and faster ones. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Kevin Leonard]

Really? From what I have seen, it is pretty reasonable to think that 1114 and 148 can use every single tote on their side of the field, especially since they are not capping all their stacks. 1114 uses all landfill totes for 3 stacks of 6 and then another from their ramp from HP load. 148 uses the remaining 24 totes in the HP to make 4 stacks of their own.
-They definitely have 3 containers, and will make 42(3) = 126 pts
-Since both have a 3 tote auto it is likely that they will get the 20 pts bonus
-After their first 3, they make 5 other stacks of totes 6 high = 30(2) = 60 pts
-They have 7 noodles left over, which I will assume they will just save

results in 206 points if they are completely robbed of cans.
each recycling container that they get will convert 6 totes (12) to a capped 6-stack (42), so a 30 point bonus.

TL;DR
for 1114 and 148, they score:
with no step cans: ~206 (7 litter in reserve)
with 1: ~236 (6 litter in reserve)
with 2: ~266 (5 litter in reserve)
with 3: ~296 (4 litter in reserve)
with 4: ~326 (3 litter in reserve)

They have incentive to pick each other. To beat them, you need to steal all 4 step cans and at least put up points equivalent to 5 stacks of 6 worth of points. (210)

Any predictions at this point for canburglars are pointless because so many teams will have better and faster ones. We'll just have to wait and see.

And I guarantee 1114 has a fast canburglar by now.
So there's that.

[Brandon Holley]

I don't exactly know how the championships work, but I wouldn't be surprised if 1114 and 254 end up together and dominate.

I would be completely surprised- as these two particular teams are in different divisions with literal impossibility of being on the same alliance.

Teams are divided into 8 divisions- each division plays itself out just like a 'regional'. The 8 winning alliances play their own elimination tournament on Einstein to crown the World Champion.

If you are not in the same division, you have no way of playing on the same alliance. There is much more detail in the manual on this.

-Brando

[M1KRONAUT]

Thanks, Brandon. I thought that each name was for an alliance (like the top 8 at regionals).

Is there a list of teams in each division?

[Gweiss96]

Thanks, Brandon. I thought that each name was for an alliance (like the top 8 at regionals).

Is there a list of teams in each division?

http://championship-notifier.evanforbes.net:3000/
Click on a division to see which teams are in it.

[Greg Needel]

Plus the fact that you have to be able to convert those cans to stacks, and it's entirely possible some of the fastest canburglars are not very good stackers.

THIS. Just winning the can race is not enough to win, you have to use the cans. Because the elims all the way through the divisions and Einstein are average based and round robin, you are still going to have to put up big points as an alliance to advance. If you win all 4 cans but only put up 3 -6 stacks you are not going to advance. In the Einstein quarter finals you only see 2 of 8 teams, so a fast can grabber alliance who can't stack could easily get knocked off by the other side of the bracket where the cans split 2-2 and both teams throw up 5 stacks of 6.

I actually think that in the quarter finals and semi finals of both sub-divisions and Einstein you might see some alliances agreeing to let the cans go 2-2 to better their chances at making it to the final dance.

Which asks the question, how many alliances do you all think will have the capacity to put up more than 5 - 6 stacks? I think very few, especially at the sub division level, and even in the quarterfinals on Einstein it will be an issue for most.

[CaityDawh]

I wonder if anyone's been developing some crazy autonomous that is both a canburglar and a 3-tote auto. Some of the teams like 1114 and 254 certainly stack fast enough to make it a possibility, even if it would be quite the programming challenge (or it could be impossibl, I don't know).

254 is tethered to their ramp, so they can't grab containers form the step during Auto. That means that they will either pick a team that can grab containers or cheesecake a team to do so.

[Jay O'Donnell]

254 is tethered to their ramp, so they can't grab containers form the step during Auto. That means that they will either pick a team that can grab containers or cheesecake a team to do so.

Or tether an alliance partner to their ramp.

[FIMAlumni]

I actually think that in the quarter finals and semi finals of both sub-divisions and Einstein you might see some alliances agreeing to let the cans go 2-2 to better their chances at making it to the final dance.



Can you explain to me why you would split the RCs 2-2? If I have the faster can grabbers, I'm going to grab all 4 to lower your alliance score even if I can only score two of them. This elimination structure is brutal and 1 bad match by 2 teams in the QFs (from my alliance stealing the RCs) is two less teams I have to beat to move on. By splitting the RCs, you may move on to the SF while I'm stuck trying to find a good seat for the next round.

[Abhishek R]

254 is tethered to their ramp, so they can't grab containers form the step during Auto. That means that they will either pick a team that can grab containers or cheesecake a team to do so.

It's not like they really need the ramp to clear the landfill... And if they want they can tether it to another alliance partner who is running the auto (given weight allows).

[Neima]

Curie: 1114, 148, 1816, 228


I don't think 1816 would be a pick for this alliance because they go from the land fill and this alliance would want a second feeder station robot.

[Woolly]

Can you explain to me why you would split the RCs 2-2? If I have the faster can grabbers, I'm going to grab all 4 to lower your alliance score even if I can only score two of them. This elimination structure is brutal and 1 bad match by 2 teams in the QFs (from my alliance stealing the RCs) is two less teams I have to beat to move on. By splitting the RCs, you may move on to the SF while I'm stuck trying to find a good seat for the next round.

It will be less of an agreement, and more of an alliance deciding to take the cans they know they can get with their faster can theft device that happens to be attached to their best stacking robot, because they don't want to risk said stacking robot. Spending half the match or more tied up in some can battle disaster can kill your alliance much more easily than not having 7 cans to use.

[Greg Needel]

Can you explain to me why you would split the RCs 2-2? If I have the faster can grabbers, I'm going to grab all 4 to lower your alliance score even if I can only score two of them. This elimination structure is brutal and 1 bad match by 2 teams in the QFs (from my alliance stealing the RCs) is two less teams I have to beat to move on. By splitting the RCs, you may move on to the SF while I'm stuck trying to find a good seat for the next round.

It all comes down to not being able to guarantee that you are faster. Fast can grabbers are a relative game, if .25 seconds is the mean time that we are using for reference and every alliance has 2 robots that can do it that fast, how often will you KNOW that you are going to get all 4.

Assuming your team can use all the cans look at the point potentials

step cans Points (all 42 point stacks)
0 126
1 168
2 210
3 252
4 294

I would rather bet on getting 210 pts in a match carrying me forward than risk 126 and know I will be out.

Now this is only in the situation where winning the can race is in doubt. If you know you will win, you never agree to this deal, as it lowers your scoring potential for no reason.




It will be less of an agreement, and more of an alliance deciding to take the cans they know they can get with their faster can theft device that happens to be attached to their best stacking robot, because they don't want to risk said stacking robot. Spending half the match or more tied up in some can battle disaster can kill your alliance much more easily than not having 7 cans to use.


This brings up another point. I say you always put your 3rd robot (cheese caked or organic) with whips up against the best scorer (with whips) on the other alliance. In the chance that they do get caught up the impact could be huge regardless of who gets the cans.

[MrJohnston]

And I guarantee 1114 has a fast canburglar by now.
So there's that.

Yes, I'm sure they do. However, the real questions are: How fast is it? and "Is somebody clever enough to build a faster one?" 1114 is a great team top to bottom. However, they are all human. They can be beaten. If they don't have the fastest canburgler, they are vulnerable.

Do I think they will most likely win? Certainly. However, I really believe that FRC is a competition and I plan to compete - there is no reason to roll over. Am I 90% likely to lose? Yup. 99%? Probably. However, I am going to do everything I can to try to beat them.

Let's not deify that pair and, instead, find some way to better them. If we prevent them from gaining any center bins, they will lose. I'll give them the 206 points calculated above. That won't get them out of the quarterfinals either. They need at least one (likely two) center bins just like the rest of us.

[Cash4587]

254 is tethered to their ramp, so they can't grab containers form the step during Auto. That means that they will either pick a team that can grab containers or cheesecake a team to do so.

Or tether their ramp to a team say, somebody like us or 1296 who has weight left over and needs to be in that zone anyway who can also make lots of stacks. Who knows how it will play out though. We are working on our autonomous sequence the next few days To see if we can do a thing or two with those gold ones with those extra 15 seconds.

[Basel A]

The fact of the matter is: That first pick in alliance selection is, in all likelihood, going to be the fastest and most accurate can grabber available. With countless teams developing grabbers right now, it is impossible to know who that will actually be.

It's not quite so simple. Let me give the example from MSC. 1023, a HP bot, seeded first and had three realistic choices:

33 - Best landfill bot
548 - Most consistent 2-can grabber, very capable HP stacker
469 - Arguably a better can grabber than 548 when functioning, similar speed for 4 cans. Caveats: only used once in a match, takes a bit too long to set up


No single team, even with a little help, can put up enough points to win, no matter how many cans are available. Picking the team with the best can grabber available might have worked at MSC, because a team like 1023 plus 469 (not that great a stacker) plus the last pick of the draft could probably have put up enough points. But 1023 made the obvious choice in picking an arguably worse can-grabber but better stacker in 548, because 2 cans is enough if you can put up the stacks.

Fast-forward to CMP, there's no guarantee a great stacker seeding 1st will have a 548 available to them (except in Hopper, I suppose). Picking a dedicated can-grabber could work if there's a good enough stacker coming back around, but the last picks at MSC were higher quality than they will be at CMP, and even at MSC this was barely a viable strategy*. Maybe they'll be able to rely on one stack from their 3rd bot.

But a top alliance knows they need to win their division before they win Einstein. Picking a can grabber that can't do much else will result in that alliance doing neither, because one team, with a little help, simply can't create enough stacks to win.

tl;dr Even can grabbers need to score stacks if they want to be picked first


*573, as the 5th captain, took a big gamble picking 27, a dedicated canburglar/capper, as their first pick. But it paid off like crazy because they were able to get a phenomenal 3rd bot, 3098 (Watch them score 20 totes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF8rbBPmmfk)). It should not have worked, 3098 should've been picked way earlier.

[Loose Screw]

Can you explain to me why you would split the RCs 2-2? If I have the faster can grabbers, I'm going to grab all 4 to lower your alliance score even if I can only score two of them. This elimination structure is brutal and 1 bad match by 2 teams in the QFs (from my alliance stealing the RCs) is two less teams I have to beat to move on. By splitting the RCs, you may move on to the SF while I'm stuck trying to find a good seat for the next round.

If you can beat that alliance so easily, wouldn't you want to play against them in the finals? If you help an alliance that you know you could beat advance, then they're knocking out an alliance that could beat you.

Using rock-paper-scissors as a guide;

You (rock) could easily beat scissors (slow RC grabber). However, there's another alliance that has quicker RC grabbers than you, but can't score as many 6-stacks as you. They'll be paper. If you can help scissors improve their average (sharing RCs), then there's a chance they'll knock paper out of elims. Then when Finals come, you could easily beat scissors.

It's a different strategy, but you can see why you'd do it.

[FIMAlumni]

Archimedes: 1023-314-3602
Carson: 67-85-3604
Carver: 4967-66-2834
Curie: 5046-107- 70
Galileo: 1189-494-3618
Hopper: 548-33-4362
Newton: 1918-3641-3539
Tesla: 2137-2959-226

I started making this as a joke, but some of these have a legitimate chance to form and win their division.

[CaityDawh]

I am very well aware that this will never happen. But just out of curiosity how do you all think the divisions would do in Einstein if the top 4 teams from each division was in an alliance. I am basing the top 4 teams off of OPR. OPR isn't the most accurate when it combines multiple events, but still is accurate enough that I am using it.

Archimedes:
1023, 2338, 314, 1538
Carson:
254, 1519, 1730, 4488
Carver:
368, 1986, 2852, 1768
Curie:
1114, 148, 4143, 3309
Galileo:
2056, 1619, 330, 525
Hopper:
2826, 987, 33, 3683
Newton:
118, 1678, 1756, 3130
Tesla:
2481, 2122, 3824, 1806

[Pretzel]

I am very well aware that this will never happen. But just out of curiosity how do you all think the divisions would do in Einstein if the top 4 teams from each division was in an alliance. I am basing the top 4 teams off of OPR. OPR isn't the most accurate when it combines multiple events, but still is accurate enough that I am using it.


Carver:
368, 1986, 2852, 1768
Curie:
1114, 148, 4143, 3309
Galileo:
2056, 1619, 330, 525
Hopper:
2826, 987, 33, 3683
Newton:
118, 1678, 1756, 3130
Tesla:
2481, 2122, 3824, 1806
I would predict Newton winning in that scenario with their canburglars by starving the other teams of cans while still being able to put up a large number of stacks.

[MrJohnston]

It's not quite so simple. Let me give the example from MSC. 1023, a HP bot, seeded first and had three realistic choices:

33 - Best landfill bot
548 - Most consistent 2-can grabber, very capable HP stacker
469 - Arguably a better can grabber than 548 when functioning, similar speed for 4 cans. Caveats: only used once in a match, takes a bit too long to set up


No single team, even with a little help, can put up enough points to win, no matter how many cans are available. Picking the team with the best can grabber available might have worked at MSC, because a team like 1023 plus 469 (not that great a stacker) plus the last pick of the draft could probably have put up enough points. But 1023 made the obvious choice in picking an arguably worse can-grabber but better stacker in 548, because 2 cans is enough if you can put up the stacks.

Fast-forward to CMP, there's no guarantee a great stacker seeding 1st will have a 548 available to them (except in Hopper, I suppose). Picking a dedicated can-grabber could work if there's a good enough stacker coming back around, but the last picks at MSC were higher quality than they will be at CMP, and even at MSC this was barely a viable strategy*. Maybe they'll be able to rely on one stack from their 3rd bot.

But a top alliance knows they need to win their division before they win Einstein. Picking a can grabber that can't do much else will result in that alliance doing neither, because one team, with a little help, simply can't create enough stacks to win.

tl;dr Even can grabbers need to score stacks if they want to be picked first


*573, as the 5th captain, took a big gamble picking 27, a dedicated canburglar/capper, as their first pick. But it paid off like crazy because they were able to get a phenomenal 3rd bot, 3098 (Watch them score 20 totes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF8rbBPmmfk)). It should not have worked, 3098 should've been picked way earlier.


I do disagree. If you are a great stacker (such as 4488) as the #1 captain and pick a great robot - whose not a can grabber, by the time you get your second pick you may not have any good can grabbers left. You have now limited yourself to 3 RC's for elimination rounds: A formula for an exit in the quarter finals. Sure, you might have the worlds fastest piece of cheesecake, but that will still limit you to getting two additional RC's - assuming your cheesecake truly is the fastest.

Nay... Unless that #1 captain is an autonomous RC grabber or has some very fast cheesecake waiting, it needs to choose an RC grabber.

[dodar]

I am very well aware that this will never happen. But just out of curiosity how do you all think the divisions would do in Einstein if the top 4 teams from each division was in an alliance. I am basing the top 4 teams off of OPR. OPR isn't the most accurate when it combines multiple events, but still is accurate enough that I am using it.


Carver:
368, 1986, 2852, 1768
Curie:
1114, 148, 4143, 3309
Galileo:
2056, 1619, 330, 525
Hopper:
2826, 987, 33, 3683
Newton:
118, 1678, 1756, 3130
Tesla:
2481, 2122, 3824, 1806

I can tell you now, there is 0% chance of any of those happening.

[Gweiss96]

I can tell you now, there is 0% chance of any of those happening.

Never say never :)

[MrJohnston]

tl;dr Even can grabbers need to score stacks if they want to be picked first




I do agree with this... If the can grabber is truly so good it will get 2 every time and winning every possible match, I would want it to be able to put up at least 40 points on its own...

[CaityDawh]

I can tell you now, there is 0% chance of any of those happening.

I know this will never happen. I was just curious. That would be a really exciting Einstein if it did. Lol

[Kevin Leonard]

He literally listed the 4 best teams in each division and asked which would win if they had to face off. No where did he say those were anywhere near realistic.

And he didn't list all the divisions. What?

[Gweiss96]

I am very well aware that this will never happen. But just out of curiosity how do you all think the divisions would do in Einstein if the top 4 teams from each division was in an alliance. I am basing the top 4 teams off of OPR. OPR isn't the most accurate when it combines multiple events, but still is accurate enough that I am using it.


Carver:
368, 1986, 2852, 1768
Curie:
1114, 148, 4143, 3309
Galileo:
2056, 1619, 330, 525
Hopper:
2826, 987, 33, 3683
Newton:
118, 1678, 1756, 3130
Tesla:
2481, 2122, 3824, 1806

Not to be biased, but I think Curie would win.

[CaityDawh]

He literally listed the 4 best teams in each division and asked which would win if they had to face off. No where did he say those were anywhere near realistic.

And he didn't list all the divisions. What?

I had them all typed out but apparently they were lost... I'm going to edit that.

[CaptainKirby]

I am very well aware that this will never happen. But just out of curiosity how do you all think the divisions would do in Einstein if the top 4 teams from each division was in an alliance. I am basing the top 4 teams off of OPR. OPR isn't the most accurate when it combines multiple events, but still is accurate enough that I am using it.


Carver:
368, 1986, 2852, 1768
Curie:
1114, 148, 4143, 3309
Galileo:
2056, 1619, 330, 525
Hopper:
2826, 987, 33, 3683
Newton:
118, 1678, 1756, 3130
Tesla:
2481, 2122, 3824, 1806

We would have an amazing set of quarterfinal rounds, where five teams would be eliminated instead of the usual 4. In the slot left open the Woodie Flowers, Dean Kamen and Donald Bossi alliance would enter and sweep through to win the whole thing.

But on a more serious note, most of teams would be much less effective than they look. Even if they manage to get all the bins off the step, most have the capacity to stack more than seven 6 stacks. We would have probably one of the least exciting einsteins ever because they would finish stacking way before the time is up (except for when Dean Kamen lobs a game winning noodle into an unfinished six stack).

[cjl2625]

And I guarantee 1114 has a fast canburglar by now.
So there's that.
http://www.simbotics.org/files/photos/windsoressex2015_0.jpg
From 1114's website, it looks like they had a cool canburglar from windsor essex. I can't find any video though.


Assuming your team can use all the cans look at the point potentials

step cans Points (all 42 point stacks)
0 126
1 168
2 210
3 252
4 294


0 step cans means 126 points?
In QF8 at NECMP, our canburglars missed, so all four went to the other side.
With 0 step cans, we (1519-195-2067) scored 214 points.

[Andrew Schreiber]

http://www.simbotics.org/files/photos/windsoressex2015_0.jpg
From 1114's website, it looks like they had a cool canburglar from windsor essex. I can't find any video though.



0 step cans means 126 points?
In QF8 at NECMP, our canburglars missed, so all four went to the other side.
With 0 step cans, we (1519-195-2067) scored 214 points.

Missed... looked more like "got beat"

[cjl2625]

Missed... looked more like "got beat"

In QF4, we got beat by your alliance.
In QF8, we just missed.

[Andrew Schreiber]

In QF4, we got beat by your alliance.
In QF8, we just missed.
Yes, that's what happens when the can isn't there any more.

[cjl2625]

Yes, that's what happens when the can isn't there any more.

Well, we were misaligned, so we were off target for both cans.
If we were aligned, 237 indeed would have beaten us to the first can, but we would have taken the second one.

[Dragonking]

Yes, that's what happens when the can isn't there any more.

Burn

[Loose Screw]

http://www.simbotics.org/files/photos/windsoressex2015_0.jpg
From 1114's website, it looks like they had a cool canburglar from windsor essex. I can't find any video though.



0 step cans means 126 points?
In QF8 at NECMP, our canburglars missed, so all four went to the other side.
With 0 step cans, we (1519-195-2067) scored 214 points.

Those are max points per RC, ex 0 step would mean 3 stacks of 42pts, 3*42=126. If you got 214, there's another 28pts in auto (max), 28 in litter, then you would have scored an additional 16-20 totes (depending on 28 or 20 pt auton). Seeing how there's 18 in the landfill and another 12 in the HP zone, completely possible. Scoring another 3 6-stacks, that would be scary if you did get those containers. That sounds like a very good alliance.

But for every RC you don't secure, you would have to put up 21 totes to match your opponents.

[Jay O'Donnell]

Yes, that's what happens when the can isn't there any more.

I think you definitely need to go back and watch QF8 before you argue about it. 2067 clearly just missed their second can, 237 only beat them to one.

[Loose Screw]

With all the talk about canburglars OP, I want to check the math to see if it's possible to win a 1-3 RC loss at very high competitive play. Assuming auto points to be equal, and both alliances can make 42pt stacks with every container they have.

Alliance 1: 3RC grab auto
6*42+4*4=268

Alliance 2: 1RC grab auto
4*42+4*6=192

268-192=76, an additional 38 totes must be scored. With 4*6 totes being used by RC stacks, that leaves only 24 totes left to be scored. With auto points being matched, it is impossible to win at this insane level.

Now if Alliance 2 had a perfect 32pt auto mode, it would make it closer.

Alliance 1: 6*42+4*4=268

Alliance 2: 4*42+4*6+32=224

268-224=44, meaning 22 additional totes need to be scored to match scores.

So, in theory, it is possible to win, but highly unlikely. In this scenario where Alliance 1 can score 6 42pt stacks (wow!), it is highly likely that they also have a good autonomous mode score.

If an alliance in Finals steals 3 or 4 containers (and be able to score them), there is nothing Alliance 2 can do to win. It is very possible that two top teams could score 3 42pt stacks independantly, meaning that this scenario is very much possible.

TL;DR: RCs OP

[Kettering]

*573, as the 5th captain, took a big gamble picking 27, a dedicated canburglar/capper, as their first pick. But it paid off like crazy because they were able to get a phenomenal 3rd bot, 3098 (Watch them score 20 totes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF8rbBPmmfk)). It should not have worked, 3098 should've been picked way earlier.

It was actually 21 totes :yikes:. And we were doing stacks of 6 just as fast in Semis and Finals.

[Loose Screw]

It was actually 21 totes :yikes:. And we were doing stacks of 6 just as fast in Semis and Finals.

I really liked that alliance. In a game where the top OPR teams score 42pt stacks by themselves, it was really cool watching your alliance work together to score. Teams like 27 that focused on perfecting one element of scoring struggled in the rankings because they are extremely partner-reliant. However, when they were paired together in that alliance, they went far. They had a very good chance of beating #1, and they proved that the #1 alliance isn't a garunteed win. I hope to see more alliances like theirs at worlds.

[ks68]

Archimedes: 1023, 1640, 836, 4334 QF
Carson: 254, 5406, 2534, 1885 W
Carver: 1986, 368, 144, 337 QF
Curie: 1114, 148, 70, 120 SF
Galileo: 2056, 2451, 1619, 2836 SF
Hopper: 33, 2826, 5413, 2614 QF
Newton: 1678, 118, 1756, 4522 F
Tesla: 2481, 624, 48, 2587 QF

[Mitchell1714]

Archimedes 2338-68-217 SF
Carson 1519-67-93 W
Carver 368-971-216 QF
Curie 1086-701-176 QF
Galileo 330-525-365 SF
Hopper 2826-548-1218 F
Newton 195-3130-537 QF
Tesla 2054-2062-706 QF

[themccannman]

Archimedes : 1023 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Carson: 254 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Carver: 1986 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Curie: 1114 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Galileo: 2056 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Hopper: 2826 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Newton: 118 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Tesla: 2122 or 1806 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber

I'm fairly confident in all of those first pick guesses.

Teams are eliminated on einstein in order of can grabber speed.

[orangelight]

Archimedes : 1023 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Carson: 254 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Carver: 1986 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Curie: 1114 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Galileo: 2056 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Hopper: 2826 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Newton: 118 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Tesla: 2122 or 1806 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber

I'm fairly confident in all of those first pick guesses.

Teams are eliminated on einstein in order of can grabber speed.
But first they have to get to Einstein

[XaulZan11]

But first they have to get to Einstein

And speed doesn't matter if it isn't consistent.

[CaityDawh]

I am very well aware that this will never happen. But just out of curiosity how do you all think the divisions would do in Einstein if the top 4 teams from each division was in an alliance. I am basing the top 4 teams off of OPR. OPR isn't the most accurate when it combines multiple events, but still is accurate enough that I am using it.

Archimedes:
1023, 2338, 314, 1538
Carson:
254, 1519, 1730, 4488
Carver:
368, 1986, 2852, 1768
Curie:
1114, 148, 4143, 3309
Galileo:
2056, 1619, 330, 525
Hopper:
2826, 987, 33, 3683
Newton:
118, 1678, 1756, 3130
Tesla:
2481, 2122, 3824, 1806

Updated version for those of you who don't look at previous comments.

[themccannman]

But first they have to get to Einstein

grabbing all 7 cans and making 5 stacks lock you into making it through quarters, and semis, then you obviously win finals. The only possible way for you to not make it out of quarters or semis is to do the absolute bare minimum (i.e. 5 stacks and nothing else) and for all of your opponents to be stacking through the roof.

Example: there are 4 alliances in semis. Alliance 1 has the fastest can grabbers, alliances 2 and 3 have the next fastest, alliance 4 doesn't have any. Alliance 1 grabs all 4 cans in every match and puts up 5 stacks, alliance 4 grabs zero in every match. In order for alliance 1 to not make the finals alliances 2 and 3 have to grab all 4 cans and put up 7 stacks when they play against the 4th alliance, and they have to go 2 and 2 on the cans when they play each other building 5 stacks a piece. If any of these conditions are not met, alliance 1 has a free by into the finals.

[jajabinx124]

Updated version for those of you who don't look at previous comments.

Its nice to see 3130 on the updated list. If there is a MN robot that makes it to Einstein this year I would bet it would be 3130.

[Deke]

I think we saw this at MSC, it doesn't matter how fast the can grabber is if you don't race anybody. The best can grabber wasn't the fastest, but one that could stack afterwards with the newly acquired cans. If you can get both speed and stacking(see 548) even better. There were very few races at MSC in the tournament, and most teams didn't want to risk messing up their average by racing and messing up their cycles. I don't think we will see many races until divisional finals and Einstein finals.

The other thing two can grabbers mess up is auto. If you want to run auto, you can't move your can grabber on the bump side without careful planning or in Tele op. You move into the space the yellow totes end up. Octo match 5 at MSC we raced 469 because we had no choice to move, fortunately we did get the can. Teams are going to have to decide if they want auto, or grab from the bump side.

[CTbiker105]

I like upsets.

Given your Newton prediction, so do I.

[Citrus Dad]

But first they have to get to Einstein

At the highest level regionals, the finalists have been the most predictable in years. Yes there have been upsets but they've mostly been at regionals where the very top teams have had OPRs in the 70s and 80s. Once the OPRs go past 90 the events go to form. It's an unfortunate aspect of this year's game.

[Kevin Leonard]

Archimedes : 1023 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Carson: 254 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Carver: 1986 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Curie: 1114 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Galileo: 2056 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Hopper: 2826 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Newton: 118 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Tesla: 2122 or 1806 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber

I'm fairly confident in all of those first pick guesses.

Teams are eliminated on einstein in order of can grabber speed.

What if the picking robot IS the fastest can grabber in the division?
I'm not saying I disagree with you, I'd probably still pick the next fastest can grabber, but there are other options. If I were 1114 and I had the fastest can grabber in my division, I might pick 148 for the pure scoring they offer.
Also, teams on Einstein might choose to forgo the direct can battle in favor of a 2-2 split of cans. Anything is possible. Maybe some of these team's can grabbers break and they lose to an alliance with a slower can grab.

I also really like to root for the underdog (I'm one of THOSE people that thinks serpentine drafts are AWESOME).

[Kpchem]

Galileo: 2056, 2451, 1619, 2836 SF


Having seen 1619 in action... if they fall to be a 3rd bot on an alliance, then their robot is broken (the only reason they'd seed outside the top 8) or a lot of scouts need to find new jobs.

I expect 1619 to challenge 2056 and 2451 for the top seed.

[Abhishek R]

Having seen 1619 in action... if they fall to be a 3rd bot on an alliance, then their robot is broken (the only reason they'd seed outside the top 8) or a lot of scouts need to find new jobs.

I expect 1619 to challenge 2056 and 2451 for the top seed.

+1

Also, someone should make like a March Madness Bracket thing for this (I know there has been one in the past, not sure if it's happening again though).

[Jaywalker1711]

My completely unbiased predictions for 2015:

Archimedes: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Carson: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Carver: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Curie: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Galileo: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Hopper: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Newton: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Tesla: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711

Finalists: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Winners: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711 after pulling off an amazing upset

:D

In all seriousness though, I do expect for some serious upsets. Not just in Einsteins, but in qualifications and divisions as well. Some of the divisions run deep with great teams; expect unexpected alliances to form and win.

[Kevin Leonard]

My completely unbiased predictions for 2015:

Archimedes: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Carson: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Carver: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Curie: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Galileo: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Hopper: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Newton: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Tesla: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711

Finalists: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Winners: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711 after pulling off an amazing upset

:D
There's no way the 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711 alliance would lose to the 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711 alliance. 1711 is just too good at stacking and 1711 would definitely beat 1711 to the cans every time. Unless 1711 missed the can, then maybe 1711 and 1711 would have a chance.
I don't think 1711, 1711, and 1711 would be able to get together in Tesla. And 1711 as a third pick in Hopper? Not even possible. They're more likely to get a robot like 1711 on the backside of the draft than 1711.

Be a little more realistic with your predictions Jaywalker1711.

[Woolly]

My completely unbiased predictions for 2015:

Archimedes: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Carson: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Carver: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Curie: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Galileo: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Hopper: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Newton: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Tesla: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711

Finalists: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Winners: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711 after pulling off an amazing upset

:D

In all seriousness though, I do expect for some serious upsets. Not just in Einsteins, but in qualifications and divisions as well. Some of the divisions run deep with great teams; expect unexpected alliances to form and win.

Dang, that's more clones than Melee's character list.
Also, this is why I'm not making predictions of the "what 4 robots will win each division" variety.

[Jaywalker1711]

Dang, that's more clones than Melee's character list.
Also, this is why I'm not making predictions of the "what 4 robots will win each division" variety.

It is impossible to accurately predict alliances, let alone the winning ones. Instead of listing off random hypotheticals, we should do more in-depth analysis of the teams! Or we could just wait...

[Ginger Power]

Or we could just wait...
Blasphemy! This is FRC we must over analyze everything!

[themccannman]

What if the picking robot IS the fastest can grabber in the division?
I'm not saying I disagree with you, I'd probably still pick the next fastest can grabber, but there are other options. If I were 1114 and I had the fastest can grabber in my division, I might pick 148 for the pure scoring they offer.
Also, teams on Einstein might choose to forgo the direct can battle in favor of a 2-2 split of cans. Anything is possible. Maybe some of these team's can grabbers break and they lose to an alliance with a slower can grab.

I also really like to root for the underdog (I'm one of THOSE people that thinks serpentine drafts are AWESOME).

Still to their advantage to get the other fastest grabber, they're not racing the rest of their division anymore, they're racing the other division winners, 1114 would have to comfortably have the fastest most reliable grabber in the world to feel safe with no other grabbers on their alliance, if they ever don't go 5 and 5 with the cans they lose that match immediately, that's a big risk to take for an alliance that puts up 8 stacks just for show.

[Green Potato]

Somebody's likely going to break their canburglar during a war on the step well before the finals, and I wouldn't be suprised if we see some pretty bloody battles in elims and Einstein over those cans. I propose an over-under of 4 canburglars broken in the elims as a whole, maybe more. Will be interesting to watch.

[ScottM]

My predictions

1. At least 6 alliances on Einstein will have a Michigan team
2. Most of the division champions will be a combination of #1 and #2 teams
3. One of the divisional champions will be made up of a non-obvious combination of robots that hasn't been made before, and could potentially win it all.

[microbuns]

Somebody's likely going to break their canburglar during a war on the step well before the finals, and I wouldn't be suprised if we see some pretty bloody battles in elims and Einstein over those cans. I propose an over-under of 4 canburglars broken in the elims as a whole, maybe more. Will be interesting to watch.

I suspect there will be a lot more than 4 broken - canburglars are typically light, thin, fast moving things that will be fighting against other light, thin, fast moving things, only fighting with the drivetrain instead of the arm. Not only that, but I'd be surprised if you didn't see them being used in every eliminations round. I suspect overall, there should at least be 2 broken on each field (mind you many of them will be very easy fixes).

[marshall]

Will mecanum wheels finally make it to the Einstein carpet this year? That's the real question. ;)

[SeanFitz]

+1

Also, someone should make like a March Madness Bracket thing for this (I know there has been one in the past, not sure if it's happening again though).

I'd love to see that happen, but the logistics involved are just awful. If anything was made, it would have to be right after alliance selections so the alliances are set. Trying to make it so people can pick the alliances before they're picked would be near impossible to organize. You would then either need to put it up online to have people fill out, or bring a dozen printers and start printing as soon as you know you can to hand out to people to fill out.

That being said, if anyone wants to make this happen, I'll help as much as I can.

[CJ_Elliott]

the first person with legitimate strategy

[Citrus Dad]

(I'm one of THOSE people that thinks serpentine drafts are AWESOME).

I agree. It makes scouting much more valuable, so the whole team, not just the drive team, can feel it has contributed.

[Citrus Dad]

Having seen 1619 in action... if they fall to be a 3rd bot on an alliance, then their robot is broken (the only reason they'd seed outside the top 8) or a lot of scouts need to find new jobs.

I expect 1619 to challenge 2056 and 2451 for the top seed.

And someone else suggested 330 on the alliance with two other powerhouses, but who also will be an alliance captain and in the mix.

[CaptainKirby]

And someone else suggested 330 on the alliance with two other powerhouses, but who also will be an alliance captain and in the mix.

That post was from the "If all the best teams by OPR got on the same alliance" prediction.

[Ubiquity]

Top 25 at Champs.

254 The Cheesy Poofs 1400 carson
1114 Simbotics 1387 curie
2056 OP Robotics 1247 galileo
118 Robonauts 1053 newton
1678 Citrus Circuits 993 newton
624 CRyptonite 676 Tesla
2826 Wave Robotics 658 hopper
1986 Team Titanium 498 carver
1023 Bedford Express 469 archimedes
33 Killer Bees 461 hopper
1325 Inverse Paradox 431 carson
1690 Orbit 409 galileo
971 Spartan Robotics 389 carver
2338 Gear It Forward 373 archimedes
2122 Team Tators 310 tesla
2085 RoboDogs 298 carson
1756 Argos 295 newton
3683 Team Dave 288 hopper
368 Team Kika Mana 271 carver
1538 The Holy Cows 269 archimedes
469 Las Guerrillas 252 hopper
701 RoboVikes 241 curie
525 Swartdogs 209 galileo
548 Robostangs 199 hopper
3824 HVA RoHAWKtics 191 tesla

118/1678 in Newton seem pretty formidable, especially since they have played together and have the expertise to cheesecake both their 3rd and 4th picks. Whoever gets to Einstein, the competition will be both sublime and intense. Both 254 and 1114 are very strong, and depending how they pick their allies, can be hard to beat. There seems to be a big gap between 1678 (993 QA) and 2826 (658 QA), but it is the strength of the alliance, not the individual top seed that counts. It might actually help to have both your third and 4th picks to be can grabbers, since it possible to sustain damage in a tug-of-war as 971 found out at SVR.

Anyway, it will be fun to watch. Go Teams!

[CaptainKirby]

Top 25 at Champs.

254 The Cheesy Poofs 1400 carson
1114 Simbotics 1387 curie
2056 OP Robotics 1247 galileo
118 Robonauts 1053 newton
1678 Citrus Circuits 993 newton
624 CRyptonite 676 Tesla
2826 Wave Robotics 658 hopper
1986 Team Titanium 498 carver
1023 Bedford Express 469 archimedes
33 Killer Bees 461 hopper
1325 Inverse Paradox 431 carson
1690 Orbit 409 galileo
971 Spartan Robotics 389 carver
2338 Gear It Forward 373 archimedes
2122 Team Tators 310 tesla
2085 RoboDogs 298 carson
1756 Argos 295 newton
3683 Team Dave 288 hopper
368 Team Kika Mana 271 carver
1538 The Holy Cows 269 archimedes
469 Las Guerrillas 252 hopper
701 RoboVikes 241 curie
525 Swartdogs 209 galileo
548 Robostangs 199 hopper
3824 HVA RoHAWKtics 191 tesla

118/1678 in Newton seem pretty formidable, especially since they have played together and have the expertise to cheesecake both their 3rd and 4th picks. Whoever gets to Einstein, the competition will be both sublime and intense. Both 254 and 1114 are very strong, and depending how they pick their allies, can be hard to beat. There seems to be a big gap between 1678 (993 QA) and 2826 (658 QA), but it is the strength of the alliance, not the individual top seed that counts. It might actually help to have both your third and 4th picks to be can grabbers, since it possible to sustain damage in a tug-of-war as 971 found out at SVR.

Anyway, it will be fun to watch. Go Teams!

So, that's the FRC top 25 five list for the top teams who competed in week 6, so it's missing a few teams (148, 987 and 1730 are some that come to mind). The official top twenty five for the entire season is coming out tonight during the show.

[Sean4488]

I honestly think that this year is the year a PNW team goes to Einstein. I hope it's us but I'd be thrilled to see any PNW team make it. :rolleyes:

[Poseidon5817]

Top 25 at Champs.

254 The Cheesy Poofs 1400 carson
1114 Simbotics 1387 curie
2056 OP Robotics 1247 galileo
118 Robonauts 1053 newton
1678 Citrus Circuits 993 newton
624 CRyptonite 676 Tesla
2826 Wave Robotics 658 hopper
1986 Team Titanium 498 carver
1023 Bedford Express 469 archimedes
33 Killer Bees 461 hopper
1325 Inverse Paradox 431 carson
1690 Orbit 409 galileo
971 Spartan Robotics 389 carver
2338 Gear It Forward 373 archimedes
2122 Team Tators 310 tesla
2085 RoboDogs 298 carson
1756 Argos 295 newton
3683 Team Dave 288 hopper
368 Team Kika Mana 271 carver
1538 The Holy Cows 269 archimedes
469 Las Guerrillas 252 hopper
701 RoboVikes 241 curie
525 Swartdogs 209 galileo
548 Robostangs 199 hopper
3824 HVA RoHAWKtics 191 tesla

118/1678 in Newton seem pretty formidable, especially since they have played together and have the expertise to cheesecake both their 3rd and 4th picks. Whoever gets to Einstein, the competition will be both sublime and intense. Both 254 and 1114 are very strong, and depending how they pick their allies, can be hard to beat. There seems to be a big gap between 1678 (993 QA) and 2826 (658 QA), but it is the strength of the alliance, not the individual top seed that counts. It might actually help to have both your third and 4th picks to be can grabbers, since it possible to sustain damage in a tug-of-war as 971 found out at SVR.

Anyway, it will be fun to watch. Go Teams!

FRC Top 25 might not be the best way to rank teams due to it being based off of voting rather than stats. A better way to rank would be Max OPR or even Average OPR.

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

The official top twenty five for the entire season is coming out tonight during the show.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/55187616.jpg

[MrJohnston]

There are a couple of teams in the PNW that very much belong in any "Top 25" list - 4488 and 1983 come to mind specifically.... There are also a handful that are strong enough (though may have been a bit inconsistent during the season) that they could potentially disrupt their divisions, depending on how the pairings work out.... 2471, 955, 1318, 2550, 3663, 4061 and 948 come to mind.

[Andrew Schreiber]

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/55187616.jpg

"Top"

[Tim_Andrews]

Agreed but Team 379 for curie is pretty good also! Iv'e seen their videos. My prediction for Curie is 1114, 379 and 3193

[MrJohnston]

Agreed but Team 379 for curie is pretty good also! Iv'e seen their videos. My prediction for Curie is 1114, 379 and 3193

Why would 1114 pick 379?

Assuming 1114 is the top captain, why would they not pick 148? I've only just begun to scout and don't know 379 well, but my first impression is that they are a strong feeder station bot - able to put up two full stacks plus a little more during teleop, but nothing more.... There several robots in Curie with that ability - some of which can add some autonomous points and/or center can grabbing....

I'm not criticizing. I'm just wondering if there is something interesting about 379 that I have not seen yet.

[StAxis]

Why would 1114 pick 379?

Assuming 1114 is the top captain, why would they not pick 148? I've only just begun to scout and don't know 379 well, but my first impression is that they are a strong feeder station bot - able to put up two full stacks plus a little more during teleop, but nothing more.... There several robots in Curie with that ability - some of which can add some autonomous points and/or center can grabbing....

I'm not criticizing. I'm just wondering if there is something interesting about 379 that I have not seen yet.

I think they'll end up with 148 personally, but I can see the benefit in 379. They're a very good robot and if 1114 doesn't want to have to deal with the tether issue of 148 then they might go with them.

[bkahl]

Got bored sitting home post-surgery, so here it goes!

Archimedes: 1310-503-360
Carson: 254-4488-20
Carver: 1986-368-1768
Curie: 1114-148-1923
Galileo: 2056-1619-2168
Hopper: 2826-987-11
Newton: 1678-118-5188
Tesla: 2481-3476-1323

Don't trust me too much. I sure don't.

Also, way too lazy to do 4th picks and junk.

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Why would 1114 pick 379?

Assuming 1114 is the top captain, why would they not pick 148? I've only just begun to scout and don't know 379 well, but my first impression is that they are a strong feeder station bot - able to put up two full stacks plus a little more during teleop, but nothing more.... There several robots in Curie with that ability - some of which can add some autonomous points and/or center can grabbing....

I'm not criticizing. I'm just wondering if there is something interesting about 379 that I have not seen yet.

Agreed. If 1114 needed a human player station specialist, 148 would be the most solid choice since it basically splits their sides of the field in half with neither of the two having to cross paths for cans or totes unless 1114 decides to litter the landfill cans. I think 1114's pick might be really hard though if there is can grabbers faster than them. Who they pick will be determined by can grabbing speed as well as the would be captains for the other alliances.

[Gregor]

Tesla: 2481-3476-1323


1323 will be an awesome second pick that will definitely fly under the radar if no one hypes them.

[Clayton Summerall]

I think they'll end up with 148 personally, but I can see the benefit in 379. They're a very good robot and if 1114 doesn't want to have to deal with the tether issue of 148 then they might go with them.

Tether issue? What is the issue you speak of?

[Clayton Summerall]

Agreed. If 1114 needed a human player station specialist, 148 would be the most solid choice since it basically splits their sides of the field in half with neither of the two having to cross paths for cans or totes unless 1114 decides to litter the landfill cans. I think 1114's pick might be really hard though if there is can grabbers faster than them. Who they pick will be determined by can grabbing speed as well as the would be captains for the other alliances.

I see this alliance with a really really nice cheesecake on the 2nd pick.

[Gregor]

They won't even be noticed amongst the Curie talent. Frankly, I seriously doubt they'll be playing in eliminations on Curie at all!

They are playing on Tesla.

My quote is from Tesla?

[MrJohnston]

My quote is from Tesla?

Oops... My brain was in Curie and I forgot I was not on that thread.

[Electronica1]

I think they'll end up with 148 personally, but I can see the benefit in 379. They're a very good robot and if 1114 doesn't want to have to deal with the tether issue of 148 then they might go with them.

I am curious what weight 148 is at after removing Alfred. 1114 could attach their ramp to Robin.

[AndrewPospeshil]

Archimedes: 1310-503-360

nice :D

Regarding 1114's pick, I think the only possible way they would pick 148 is if they can get a stealer on Sideswipe that's competitive on Einstein - aka one of the top dozen or so in the world. An alliance with only 3 bins is not going to go very far at all in playoffs. Simbotics knows this, and is going to pick a binstealer if they don't have one (that can go toe-to-toe with the likes of 548 and 1678). Even if 1114 and 148 can stack faster than any combination in FRC, their stacks are effectively worth a third as much once they've used all their cans (12pts for a 6stack vs 36/42pts). As much as we'd all like to think/believe, those two are not 3x faster than everyone.

[waialua359]

Nice little discussion. But in the end 1114-148-xxxxx or 148-1114-xxxxx.

[themccannman]

Nice little discussion. But in the end 1114-148-xxxxx or 148-1114-xxxxx.

Nice little discussion, but anyone who understands the can race will just disagree. I'm sure 1114 realizes that making 9 stacks doesn't help when you have 3 cans.

[PayneTrain]

Nice little discussion, but anyone who understands the can race will just disagree. I'm sure 1114 realizes that making 9 stacks doesn't help when you have 3 cans.

Nice little discussion, but we all know one or more of these fields is just going to go brain-dead for alliance selections and someone is going to get a late 3rd robot that's going to take them over the top. Not to mention all of these fields are by default shallow this season, I honestly couldn't tell you how any of this is going to pan out.

[themccannman]

Nice little discussion, but we all know one or more of these fields is just going to go brain-dead for alliance selections and someone is going to get a late 3rd robot that's going to take them over the top. Not to mention all of these fields are by default shallow this season, I honestly couldn't tell you how any of this is going to pan out.

I can tell you exactly how is going to pan out, the winning alliance in each division will have one of the fastest can grabbers if not two of them.

[XaulZan11]

I can tell you exactly how is going to pan out, the winning alliance in each division will have one of the fastest can grabbers if not two of them.

Doesn't a 1114-148 alliance fulfill that description? (assuming 1114 does what we all expect and bring a fast can grabber).

[stens987]

I agree. It makes scouting much more valuable, so the whole team, not just the drive team, can feel it has contributed.

Agreed!

[themccannman]

Doesn't a 1114-148 alliance fulfill that description? (assuming 1114 does what we all expect and bring a fast can grabber).

1114 would have to have *the* fastest can grabber on the planet to justify this alliance. If they ever run into any team that is faster they will only have 3 cans. If they have a back up bot (cheesecake) which I assume they will, then they could get by without picking another can grabber.

[JB987]

Willing to bet all eight division winning alliances will include a very fast burglar cheescaked 3rd bot...the question remains, who will have the fastest/most consistent canburglars? And I wonder which winning alliances will have examples of a winning alliance's bot using a top canburglar from another alliance in their division that didn't advance? The ultimate vicarious Einstein experience for some team?

[BrendanB]

After watching 1519, 195, & 2067 destroy the elimination rounds at the New England Championship with an elimination average of 228.43 sometimes only using 3-4 RCs I think some people are making a bigger deal out of the can wars compared to what we will actually see.

Will it be important? Yes.

Do you need the fastest? Maybe not if the rest of your game involves using the other game pieces to their maximum scoring potential.

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

After watching 1519, 195, & 2067 destroy the elimination rounds at the New England Championship with an elimination average of 228.43 sometimes only using 3-4 RCs I think some people are making a bigger deal out of the can wars compared to what we will actually see.

Will it be important? Yes.

Do you need the fastest? Maybe not if the rest of your game involves using the other game pieces to their maximum scoring potential.

the maximum scoring potential with 3 RCs, without upside-down totes, is 240 points.

An average alliance that puts up 5 capped stacks can beat this eveytime, so getting all RCs means victory in finals

[BrendanB]

the maximum scoring potential with 3 RCs, without upside-down totes, is 240 points.

An average alliance that puts up 5 capped stacks can beat this eveytime, so getting all RCs means victory in finals

True but if you can't assemble those stacks all of those RCs are useless. Believe me our alliance of 237, 501, and 3467 made away with 3-4 RCs in autonomous during the quarter finals and semi finals at NEDCMP and didn't put up scores high enough to beat an alliance with only three. Another alliance at NE champs of 88, 125, and 246 had even faster can arms and didn't make it out of the quarter finals.

Not to mention even if you can drop your arms faster than your opponents it doesn't mean they can't grab on before you drive away and snatch them away from you. We saw that a few times when a team who was fast but didn't have a good grip on the cans was beat out because another team who was slower caught on with a more secure mechanism.

On Einstein where all of the teams are high caliber putting up 2-3+ stacks each the RCs are very valuable and we'll know the winner of the match in the first 2 seconds if someone gets more than two off of the step. I will predict that in several divisions the team with the fastest arms won't make it out of the division and it won't be your ticket to Einstein if you walk in with the fastest.

[Pretzel]

Not to mention even if you can drop your arms faster than your opponents it doesn't mean they can't grab on before you drive away and snatch them away from you.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. I imagine some teams have thought up solutions to this problem and implemented them by now.

[MCarron]

I predict that team 343 (Metal-In-Motion) will beat team 111 (Wildstang) to finally get revenge for the tote game of 2003!!! Wooo hooo..... of course we will both be 3rd or 4th picks, on an awesome alliance, from our respective divisions. Hey....can't a guy dream and have a little fun??? :)

Good luck to all the teams competing in St. Louis and I really hope everybody has a safe trip there and back home.

[George Nishimura]

Willing to bet all eight division winning alliances will include a very fast burglar cheescaked 3rd bot...

1114 would have to have *the* fastest can grabber on the planet to justify this alliance. If they ever run into any team that is faster they will only have 3 cans. If they have a back up bot (cheesecake) which I assume they will, then they could get by without picking another can grabber.

"Picking the fastest burglar" strategy only works through divisions, unless the fastest burglar is in your division. It also depends on whether can wars are deterministic, which at the highest levels may not be so true.

It's interesting that this year, every alliance has a back-up bot to cheesecake throughout division playoffs.

Having two 188pt bots (a robot capable of scoring 188 pts on their own) on an alliance does give you an advantage considering:

- cheesecaking (or any off-the-field improvements)
- the play-off structure
- possible non-deterministic nature of can wars
- blue side advantage

Such an alliance would only need to win two cans to win, and can play with only two robots, or without one of their best robots, and still proceed through division playoffs. If they had blue side advantage, then they would have to play against two burglars who are faster than them in order to lose all four.

Any alliance that plays a final against an alliance that win all four cans and caps 5/6 stacks will lose. On Einstein, besides improving your own mechanisms off-the-field, there's very little you can do.

An 1114/148 alliance, being both great teams and robots, could theoretically cheesecake two incredibly fast burglars, if they need to.

[themccannman]

"Picking the fastest burglar" strategy only works through divisions, unless the fastest burglar is in your division. It also depends on whether can wars are deterministic, which at the highest levels may not be so true.
I'm not sure where you've been for the last 12 weeks but I believe everyone is in agreement on this one. There literally aren't enough game pieces on the field for you to outscore a team that grabs all 7 can from you and make 5 stacks. That's an 84 point differential you have to make up.


Such an alliance would only need to win two cans to win

It seems to me that you're conceding that you do need to win at least 2 cans to win the match. Winning the can wars doesn't mean getting all 4, it just means not letting your opponents get at least 3. Of course you can beat the other team if you both get 2 cans. The entire point of the chokehold strategy is to not let that happen.

then they would have to play against two burglars who are faster than them in order to lose all four.


All it takes is two grabbers faster than you and you just lose every match immediately.

Any alliance that plays a final against an alliance that win all four cans and caps 5/6 stacks will lose. On Einstein, besides improving your own mechanisms off-the-field, there's very little you can do.

This is the entire point of the whole can race debate, the very debate that you were trying to discount at the beginning of your post.


An 1114/148 alliance, being both great teams and robots, could theoretically cheesecake two incredibly fast burglars, if they need to.
This is what everyone has been making conjectures about, whether these teams will build good enough can grabbers to justify teaming up. All it takes is one robot that's faster than both of them to make that 1st seed think twice about their pick.

[George Nishimura]

I wasn't discounting the importance of the can wars. If I did, it was unintentional and I retract the statement. I also wanted to build on what was said, not disagree with it.

My point was that if one of 1114 and 148 finish first, they can't pick the fastest can grabber if the fastest can grabber is on Carson or Archimedes or wherever. The strategy of picking the fastest can grabber only works in Division eliminations for 7 out of 8 alliances that make it to Einstein, and then will stop working.

The other point is there might not be one fastest can grabber, ie that the difference between two grabbers might be so minuscule that it would be difficult to predict even after two matches head-to-head.

The third is the strategic advantage of being able to outscore an opponent with two cans each. That puts pressure on the other team to secure (as in prevent the opposition from reaching) three cans, which requires (most likely) two good robots, not one. IE the 1114/148 alliance can put their best burglar against the other team's weaker burglar (with blue side advantage), whereas the other alliance has to match up best to best.

The chokehold strategy is having the two fastest burglars in all 800 teams. My contention is that it might not be the case that an alliance can form such a partnership, and it might be easier to engineer a 3rd/4th robots that can compete with at least one of every other alliance's burglars.

[themccannman]

I wasn't discounting the importance of the can wars. If I did, it was unintentional and I retract the statement. I also wanted to build on what was said, not disagree with it.

Sorry I guess that was a misunderstanding on my part, your post made it sound like 1114 + 148 could beat everyone with only 3 cans.


My point was that if one of 1114 and 148 finish first, they can't pick the fastest can grabber if the fastest can grabber is on Carson or Archimedes or wherever. The strategy of picking the fastest can grabber only works in Division eliminations for 7 out of 8 alliances that make it to Einstein, and then will stop working.

The other point is there might not be one fastest can grabber, ie that the difference between two grabbers might be so minuscule that it would be difficult to predict even after two matches head-to-head.

The third is the strategic advantage of being able to outscore an opponent with two cans each. That puts pressure on the other team to secure (as in prevent the opposition from reaching) three cans, which requires (most likely) two good robots, not one. IE the 1114/148 alliance can put their best burglar against the other team's weaker burglar (with blue side advantage), whereas the other alliance has to match up best to best.

The chokehold strategy is having the two fastest burglars in all 800 teams. My contention is that it might not be the case that an alliance can form such a partnership, and it might be easier to engineer a 3rd/4th robots that can compete with at least one of every other alliance's burglars.
Now I see where your coming from. And yes, I pretty much agree with your thought process here, there really is only 1 fastest grabber, and it's hard to know who it is until you actually race them.

[Ichlieberoboter]

One team pretty much everyone is overlooking is team 1714 (M.O.R.E. Robotics). They have a fast four canburglar that they used at Lake Superior regional. Their alliance didn't really use them, unfortunately, but...

[Pretzel]

With all the discussion of fast canburglars, I'm curious as to what the fastest canburglars currently are. I know I heard that 3310 can hook into the can in under a quarter second, but does any other team even come close to that?

[sodizzle]

I know I heard that 3310 can hook into the can in under a quarter second, but does any other team even come close to that?

I don't know their time, but 548 has some crazy fast burglars.

[EricLeifermann]

One team pretty much everyone is overlooking is team 1714 (M.O.R.E. Robotics). They have a fast four canburglar that they used at Lake Superior regional. Their alliance didn't really use them, unfortunately, but...

1714 has to shoot the gap to get the cans and take quite a long time to real in their arms if they go for 4.

[Bryce Paputa]

With all the discussion of fast canburglars, I'm curious as to what the fastest canburglars currently are. I know I heard that 3310 can hook into the can in under a quarter second, but does any other team even come close to that?

We were at a quarter second a few weeks ago. Not going to quote an exact number now but an eighth second is much closer than a quarter.

[FIMAlumni]

With all the discussion of fast canburglars, I'm curious as to what the fastest canburglars currently are. I know I heard that 3310 can hook into the can in under a quarter second, but does any other team even come close to that?

You would have to get the times from their respective teams but 27, 503, 548, and a cheesecake 1711 were among the fastest at MSC.

[Jaywalker1711]

You would have to get the times from their respective teams but 27, 503, 548, and a cheesecake 1711 were among the fastest at MSC.

The cheesecake is gone, but we have replaced it with dual canburglars, similar to the cheesecake design, that steal in about 300 milliseconds.

And it should only get faster. We have some sort of delay in our code or communication that is costing us time.

[Abhishek R]

Felt like making some off the wall predictions in addition to some of the more likely alliances. so here goes (only gonna do first two robots, after that, it's down to who messes up their scouting or certain niche picks):

Archimedes: 1023 + 2338
Carson: 254 + 4587
Carver: 971 + 368
Curie: 148 + 1114
Galileo: 1619 + 2056
Hopper: 2826 + 987
Newton: 1671 + 118
Tesla: Legitimately no clue...

[Kevin Leonard]

Archimedes: 1310-4451-188-4334 QF
Carson: 254-973-1241-5122 SF
Carver: 4967-1625-829-216 QF
Curie: 148-1114-341-900 F
Galileo: 1690-27-191-237 QF
Hopper: 2826-987-4265-223 W
Newton: 195-3310-190-1111 SF
Tesla: 2481-3824-1323-3847 QF

I like predicting crazy upsets that are going to be totally wrong.
Plus I personally just want to see a few of these teams go to Einstein. Maybe if I just will it hard enough... :P

Can we talk about the kind of prophet I am?
148-1114-900, 2826-987-4265,
I also predicted 1690 and 27 would team up.
I've had so much luck this week.

[1493kd]

I've had so much luck this week.

Turn that luck into a World Championship.... 1493 pulling for you back in the 518

[Ichlieberoboter]

Pretty sure nobody predicted the 254 thing. ): RIP Cheesy Poofs

[mrnoble]

Pretty sure nobody predicted the 254 thing. ): RIP Cheesy Poofs

I've not been watching today. Family life takes over sometimes. What happened?

[Ichlieberoboter]

I've not been watching today. Family life takes over sometimes. What happened?

The lost in the quarterfinals.

[orangemoore]

I've not been watching today. Family life takes over sometimes. What happened?

As one of their matches ended one of the teams was trying to place a 6 stack with RC and noodle but instead they knocked that over along with another 6 stack with RC and noodle.

[themccannman]

As one of their matches ended one of the teams was trying to place a 6 stack with RC and noodle but instead they knocked that over along with another 6 stack with RC and noodle.

973 put a stack down at the last second and there was a noodle underneath, it tipped and knocked over another stack. Match two their 3rd bot tipped over and blocked the landfill. Just a series of very unfortunate events and bad luck.

[Jared Russell]

Pretty sure nobody predicted the 254 thing. ): RIP Cheesy Poofs

We aren't dead you know :)

[Lil' Lavery]

We aren't dead you know :)

Poofs members aren't required to commit seppuku if they lose? :ahh:

[Ichlieberoboter]

We aren't dead you know :)

Ha yeah. You guys did great this year; that really was unfortunate.

[asid61]

I don't think anybody could have predicted this championships. The semifinals were so intense I just lost it. I thought the chess match on Einstein last year was intense, but the can grabber wars and stacking was just unbeatable.

[matthew_martin]

Hopper: 2826-987-4265-223 W


It turns out Kevin predicted this year's champs, with the exception of the 3rd pick. We didn't win, but we were finalists! Thanks Kevin, you brought our team far!

[stens987]

Can we talk about the kind of prophet I am?
148-1114-900, 2826-987-4265,
I also predicted 1690 and 27 would team up.
I've had so much luck this week.

No need to scout all the teams anymore... I'll just ask you for your prediction and go straight to strategizing for that alliance! ;)

[marshall]

Archimedes: 1310-4451-188-4334 QF
Carson: 254-973-1241-5122 SF
Carver: 4967-1625-829-216 QF
Curie: 148-1114-341-900 F
Galileo: 1690-27-191-237 QF
Hopper: 2826-987-4265-223 W
Newton: 195-3310-190-1111 SF
Tesla: 2481-3824-1323-3847 QF

I like predicting crazy upsets that are going to be totally wrong.
Plus I personally just want to see a few of these teams go to Einstein. Maybe if I just will it hard enough... :P

3 out of 4 on Curie ain't bad. Got to say though, I didn't see it coming.

[Sunnykx]

I honestly think that this year is the year a PNW team goes to Einstein. I hope it's us but I'd be thrilled to see any PNW team make it. :rolleyes:

We made a good run at it, Sean. You were captain of your alliance in the Finals in your division and we (Team 3663) were captain of our alliance in the Finals in Curie. Team 492 made it as a 4th pick to Einstein.

I think it's going to take the PNW's continued presence at World's to have the rest of the teams in the country sit up and take notice. PNW makes up 6% of the active teams in FRC. 12.5% of Captains in divisional Finals were from PNW. PNW doesn't seem to be on their radar much - you (4488) would get a mention here and there but not nearly what your record warranted. The rest of us weren't really mentioned at all - anywhere outside of PNW, that is.

That's okay. We'll just keep showing up and performing.

Great job at World's 4488. You did the PNW proud.

[howdosheeplamp]

NOBODY saw the 118-1678-1671-5012 alliance happening. Frankly I was shocked that 1671 was still available, but hey, I'm not complaining. :rolleyes: