Bag and Tag at Worlds

[SciBorg Dave]

Can someone direct me to the info about opening the bagged robot at worlds. I read we can open the bag once the crate is open with out inspection of the tag. Is that true ?

[Jon Stratis]

Section 5.4 of the admin manual states:
You may not open your bag until:
a. it has been checked, approved by an on-site robot inspector, AND
b. the pits have officially been opened for robot work. You must have your Robot Lock-Up Form ready for review at the event. Do not forget to bring it.

It makes no exemptions from this policy for champs. I haven't seen anything from FIRST saying that bags won't be checked. Unless you are informed otherwise by FIRST, don't open your bag at the event without talking to an inspector first!

[FrankJ]

Can someone direct me to the info about opening the bagged robot at worlds. I read we can open the bag once the crate is open with out inspection of the tag. Is that true ?

Where did you read this? Unless it is an official first source, you will need to have your tag cleared by an inspector.

[Bob Steele]

I don't think so... at least not yet.
The permission to do that was for LAST year....

We have not heard that this can be done this year yet.
Given the issues with getting permission to unbag and dissemble robots and such I would be surprised if they will allow it.

My personal opinion is that they should simply do away with bagging for CMP. If you get your robot in your crate and get it shipped after your last event that should be good enough.... obviously you can't be working on it...

Remember when that is all we ever did? for ALL events.... It was not that long ago... we sent robots in crates everywhere... no bags... seemed to work then....

To me it is a useless thing to have to do now when a crate is used. Can't we just use the crate as the bag?...

Maybe next year

[MrForbes]

We had our robot in it's bag for almost a week before the crate got put on a truck headed for St Louis.

Used to be we put the robot in a crate on stop build day, and never had it in our possession outside of a regional event.

[SciBorg Dave]

Thank,s I must remember that from last year.

[jds2001]

Yeah, the no bag inspection was from last year. As others have said, with the large amount of teams receiving permission to unbag to fit in the crate, I would expect an inspection to be required this year.

[Jon Stratis]

According to the FRCTeams Twitter account,

@FRCTeams: THIS JUST IN: No bag or lock up form inspections at @FIRSTChamp. Teams can just unbag and get to work! #omgrobots

https://twitter.com/frcteams/status/590201606412570624

So, get your crate open as soon as you get there Wednesday, no hassle from inspectors!

[dcarr]

According to the FRCTeams Twitter account,



https://twitter.com/frcteams/status/590201606412570624

So, get your crate open as soon as you get there Wednesday, no hassle from inspectors!

We're now just one step away from eliminating bag and tag entirely.

[FrankJ]

According to the FRCTeams Twitter account,
https://twitter.com/frcteams/status/590201606412570624
So, get your crate open as soon as you get there Wednesday, no hassle from inspectors!

A bet a bunch of robot inspectors just issued a sigh of relief. :)

[Bob Steele]

sighhhhh

of relief

[Tom Line]

We're now just one step away from eliminating bag and tag entirely.

I wouldn't say that. The size of the championship event requires streamlining, however the basic bag-and-tag requirement keeps over eager hands off the robot pretty well. Even honest folks can be tempted to 'just take the wire off' or 'just tighten that bolt' when there isn't a barrier.

I'm betting bag and tag isn't going anywhere, and I really don't mind it.

[MrForbes]

I hope not, we like getting a little rest between build and competition.

[Bob Steele]

My opinion is that they will not require bags to go into crates to come to CMP next year. Not much point in doing that.... the crate IS the bag. Seal the crate.

I don't see them eliminating bag and tag for other events though.....

[MrForbes]

Not bagging would have given us an extra week to play with the robot....we had other things to do, like finding money and making travel arrangements.

[Nate Laverdure]

According to the FRCTeams Twitter account,
So, get your crate open as soon as you get there Wednesday, no hassle from inspectors!
Is it weird that this information is on social media (Facebook too (https://www.facebook.com/FIRSTRoboticsCompetition)) but hasn't been blogged yet?

[Jon Stratis]

Is it weird that this information is on social media (Facebook too (https://www.facebook.com/FIRSTRoboticsCompetition)) but hasn't been blogged yet?

Nah...I don't think this is a critical piece of information that teams need to know before they arrive. Heck, last year the decision was announced to inspectors 30 mins before the doors opened, and teams only found out after they got in the building. It's something teams will deal with for all of 5 mins after they get the robot out of the crate and then completely forget about the rest of the event. Other stuff that was blogged, like load in/load out details or match schedule, have bigger implications for teams in terms of bus/trailer scheduling, pre-scouting, and such. Those types of things typically require some amount of planning or awareness ahead of time.

[Toolman]

FYI FIRST sent out a greetings 2015 FRC Championship Teams email to team leaders stating:
NO Robot Bag Inspection after Load in:" There will be no robot bag inspection at Championship this year. Simply unbag and start work on your robot immediately after Load IN."

[MrForbes]

I guess this makes it really official...

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-its-happening

Oh, and in case you haven’t heard, we won’t be doing robot bag or lock-up form inspections at the event. When you get to your robot, just open you bag right up, no need to wait for an Inspector. We want to get through Inspections as quickly (and, of course, as safely) as we can to ensure everyone is ready for their qualifying matches.

[ToddF]

Waiving bag inspection at the CMP makes perfect sense, if it's done after all robot crates have arrived. Letting everyone think it will be required ensures that all robots remain bagged AS IF it were going to be a requirement. Removing the requirement after the crates have been shipped removes the resource cost of actually performing inspections.

Now that this has happened two years in a row, next year it would be wise to actually perform the inspections, just to keep everyone on their toes. Otherwise, bagging for championships is going to go the way of the seat saving rule: official rule popularly ignored.

[zsnow]

Now that this has happened two years in a row, next year it would be wise to actually perform the inspections, just to keep everyone on their toes. Otherwise, bagging for championships is going to go the way of the seat saving rule: official rule popularly ignored.

I think most honest teams would be unaffected regardless of whether they expect their forms to be checked or not. Dishonest teams (or a few dishonest members of an honest team) might just falsify the form if they really wanted to make modifications to their robot. The idea of bagging and tagging to ensure equal robot access time certainly makes sense. While I think loosening restrictions would be inconsequential, I don't see the rule going away any time soon.

[Jon Stratis]

I could see bag and tag officially going away for champs at some point in the future. Per section 5.8.2 of the admin manual, robots going to champs need to be shipped by the Thursday following your last event, which would give all teams earning a spot an equal amount of unbag time between their event and shipping. The problem comes in with wait-listed teams... If your last event is week one and you come off the wait list in week 6, that gives you a significant unbag period that others don't get. Maybe require bagging for wait list teams, up until the weekend before they ship their robot? That would cut down the number of bags that need to be checked significantly, but still require some checked bags, and thus delays for teams at champs.

[MrForbes]

It was well after Tuesday when we finally got through the shipping paperwork email tag game, and found out that the robot really needed to be shipped no later than the Monday a week after our last regional.

[FrankJ]

We got the paperwork Fri afternoon (week 4). They wanted the robot shipped by Sunday. :yikes: The manual says Thursday after your last event. Where you are and when your last event is can make a big difference. Slow LTL from Atlanta to St Louis is 3-4 days. It can be a lot longer in other parts of the states or the rest of the world.

I can see keeping the bag requirement even if every one knows it won't be checked. It keeps honest finger honest & kills the temptation to dump code, measure something, etc. Even if teams as a group are honest, there is always one individual...

[PayneTrain]

I like to think that next year FIRST could allow some unbag time between your last event and your ship time. Something like 4 hours where you can work on the machine before you box it up. This idea has some hang up points but you could potentially start Wednesdays at cmp later.

[MrForbes]

Maybe, but keep in mind that the work expands to fill the available time.

[Jon Stratis]

I like to think that next year FIRST could allow some unbag time between your last event and your ship time. Something like 4 hours where you can work on the machine before you box it up. This idea has some hang up points but you could potentially start Wednesdays at cmp later.

We need the whole time Wednesday to get teams inspected at cmp, and even then we're rushing Thursday morning. To get the last few stragglers. Adding unbag time won't help this, it'll just give teams more time to screw up the robot to the point where it won't pass. Last year, I ended up sitting in a team's pit Thursday morning, wiring their robot before they even arrived (well after pits opened) just so they could pass inspection before their first match. Not something I wanted to do, but without it the team would have missed their first match entirely.

[PayneTrain]

We need the whole time Wednesday to get teams inspected at cmp, and even then we're rushing Thursday morning. To get the last few stragglers. Adding unbag time won't help this, it'll just give teams more time to screw up the robot to the point where it won't pass. Last year, I ended up sitting in a team's pit Thursday morning, wiring their robot before they even arrived (well after pits opened) just so they could pass inspection before their first match. Not something I wanted to do, but without it the team would have missed their first match entirely.

I was expecting someone with inspecting experience to tell me this would probably be the biggest issue.

I'll just keep dreaming.

[Jon Stratis]

I was expecting someone with expecting experience to tell me this would probably be the biggest issue.

I'll just keep dreaming.

Well, we all wish it would go quicker, believe me. Unfortunately, nothing goes smoothly with inspection, it seems. At North Star this year, I almost cleared the board on Thursday... Except for two teams that left early without being inspected. And by early, I mean hours early. You would think cmp would be easy for inspectors, since everyone's already been inspected at least once... But there's changes, teams showing up late, stuff a previous inspector missed... And all those teams think "Well, I passed at my last event, so we'll prioritize something else and get up to inspection in a few hours". When half the division comes up for inspection in the last 2 hours, though, there's not much that can be done to speed things up!

[alexWerner]

Does anybody know what exactly they mean by "There will be no robot bag inspection at Championship this year. Simply unbag and start work on your robot immediately after Load In?" Does this mean that as soon as teams load in they are able to start working on their robots, or does it mean that teams still have to wait until the pits open in order to start? The exact wording of it is rather ambiguous and could be interpreted both ways. Thoughts?

[MrForbes]

Other places (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-Championship-Move-In-Day) they have stated that you can work on your robot immediately when load in starts at 2 pm.

[Richard Wallace]

Now that this has happened two years in a row, next year it would be wise to actually perform the inspections, just to keep everyone on their toes. Otherwise, bagging for championships is going to go the way of the seat saving rule: official rule popularly ignored.What if all those inspectors with no bags to inspect were instead assigned to inspect the stands, and remove seat-saving items? :eek:

[PayneTrain]

What if all those inspectors with no bags to inspect were instead assigned to inspect the stands, and remove seat-saving items? :eek:

This is the greatest idea anyone on this board has ever come up with. Ever. Zero hyperbole.