Possibility for 2016 Game

[Yamin]

This year in the reveal video FIRST seemed to lean to how much they wanted people to not only use pool noodles but to pick them up with the robots. In this season I personally did not see a single robot do this and I would not be surprised if this made Dean a bit disappointed. So I am thinking for the 2016 game he may try and reuse the pool noodles and make the game more focused on them. Thoughts?

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

I would be surprised... Did you notice how they break up so easily? Would make such a huge mess on the field, and they would have to replace them more often
:deadhorse:

Edit: I think Football would make a great game

[smart1]

Shooting noodles into goals.

[theCADguy]

Shooting noodles into goals.

And the end game will involve climbing a tote pyramid.

[Scott Kozutsky]

And the end game will involve climbing a tote pyramid.

Balancing on a tote pyramid.

[Jacob4564]

Ultimate assist played on Lunacy flooring with bridges and towers

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

Ultimate assist played on Lunacy flooring with bridges and towers

with minibots placing coop totes

[carpedav000]

I think Football would make a great game

I would imagine that being an FRC-sized version of the 09-10 FTC game, HotShot.

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

I would imagine that being an FRC-sized version of the 09-10 FTC game, HotShot.

i was imagining more of a rebound rumble with footballs and a different end game

[Koko Ed]

In response to the glaring lack of interaction (aka violence) in this year's game FIRST will bring back violence and then some by having robots be the goal/target and score as many hit points as possible on opposing robots. Bonus points for making hard contact dents with bumper to bumper interaction. There will even be an endgame where teams deploy drones to attack drive teams with Nerf darts. Human players armed with baseball bat will stand ready to swat marauding drones from the sky.

[Jorge Ayala]

In response to the glaring lack of interaction (aka violence) in this year's game FIRST will bring back violence and then some by having robots be the goal/target and score as many hit points as possible on opposing robots. Bonus points for making hard contact dents with bumper to bumper interaction. There will even be an endgame where teams deploy drones to attack drive teams with Nerf darts. Human players armed with baseball bat will stand ready to swat marauding drones from the sky.

BEST. GAME. EVER.

[BBray_T1296]

Let me guess:

Hockey Game
Football Game
Water Game
:rolleyes:

[pntbll1313]

they wanted people to not only use pool noodles but to pick them up with the robots. In this season I personally did not see a single robot do this

Here's a match video of 5143 doing that (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsms-A4QKcA&t=1m39s). Unfortunately we had to run off with the RC at the last moment before they put the litter in, but it's still cool to watch :)

[mac]

This year in the reveal video FIRST seemed to lean to how much they wanted people to not only use pool noodles but to pick them up with the robots. In this season I personally did not see a single robot do this and I would not be surprised if this made Dean a bit disappointed. So I am thinking for the 2016 game he may try and reuse the pool noodles and make the game more focused on them. Thoughts?

I believe that next years game is all ready in the bank vault. They are 2 years ahead in design. Mentor Mac

[Shrub]

Oh man, my favorite kind of thread.

I think its going to be every game played in the history of FIRST combined. Get ready for 30 minute matches.

[dpbuttram]

Hovercraft. And they must be maneuvered through a figure-eight race course with an elevated ramp on one section so the robots must jump the gap. Bonus points will be awarded if you drive through a human station and add various size weights between laps.

[Yamin]

They may add more action which I personally would love to see however something that would be hilarious is having to catch hollow Frisbees on pool noodles

[Loose Screw]

2011 was the 20th anniversary of FRC, so they had a FIRST-based game. Scoring the FIRST logo gave you bonus points, and the addition of mini-bots was to try to get FRC teams to work with FTC teams.

2015's game hint showed all the previous games being played, but didn't recycle the games.

Because 2016 will be the 25th anniversary of FRC, a "landmark year", I think we see a combination of previous game elements.

Here's hoping for a 2009 playing field and wheels, playing the 2008 game with 2015 litter, divided in half with 2012 co-op bridges, and 2011 minibots climbing the 2013 pyramid.

What, not a good idea?

[chris-isntlame]

This year in the reveal video FIRST seemed to lean to how much they wanted people to not only use pool noodles but to pick them up with the robots. In this season I personally did not see a single robot do this and I would not be surprised if this made Dean a bit disappointed. So I am thinking for the 2016 game he may try and reuse the pool noodles and make the game more focused on them. Thoughts?


The pool noodles would be great for a water game

[Tim Sharp]

In response to the glaring lack of interaction (aka violence) in this year's game FIRST will bring back violence and then some by having robots be the goal/target and score as many hit points as possible on opposing robots. Bonus points for making hard contact dents with bumper to bumper interaction. There will even be an endgame where teams deploy drones to attack drive teams with Nerf darts. Human players armed with baseball bat will stand ready to swat marauding drones from the sky.

I like the way you think.They need to work some old time Lawn Darts in there as well.

[Pretzel]

I like the way you think.They need to work some old time Lawn Darts in there as well.
Before the drones are deployed, human players may lob Lawn Darts at opposing robots in an attempt to disable them. Point values are assigned as follows:

Damaged mechanism: 10 points
Damaged drivetrain: 20 points
Damaged motor: 30 points
Damaged motor controller: 40 points
Damaged RoboRIO: 50 points
Damaged battery: 50 points and a $75 clean-up fine for the damaged team

In addition, teams are given a five minute period after the end of the match to repair as much damage as they can. You earn the same points for fixing something as you would for damaging it. This provides incentives for elite teams to cripple themselves in a match, evening out the playing field during the course of play.

[tmpoles]

Recycle rush under water and the pool noodles have to be used for robot buoyancy.

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

Recycle rush under water and the pool noodles have to be used for robot buoyancy.

If someone could calculate the number of pool noodles required to keep 120 pounds of aluminum at the surface, i'd be so happy

[Louis_]

If someone could calculate the number of pool noodles required to keep 120 pounds of aluminum at the surface, i'd be so happy

cylinder=pi(r)(r)(length)or 22/7 X 4.445cm X 4.445cm X 30.48cm = 1892.7cc or 1.89L

1.89kg X 2.2=4.16 lbs

1 foot of 3.5" diameter pool noodle should float about a 4lb piece of metal on top of the noodle.

120/4=30. So about 30 1 foot long 3.5" diameter pool noodles.

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

cylinder=pi(r)(r)(length)or 22/7 X 4.445cm X 4.445cm X 30.48cm = 1892.7cc or 1.89L

1.89kg X 2.2=4.16 lbs

1 foot of 3.5" diameter pool noodle should float about a 4lb piece of metal on top of the noodle.

120/4=30. So about 30 1 foot long 3.5" diameter pool noodles.

That was hella fast

[Louis_]

That was hella fast

May of copied that off a website :rolleyes:

[Eric Scheuing]

Did anybody else notice the tetras in the background during the reveal? I bet it'll be Triple Play 2: Robotic Boogaloo.

[dmorewood]

FIRST games in recent years have followed the FTC game the year prior. I'm expecting us to see a lot of small balls on the field (Tennis or Squash) and a relatively open field. There will be defense, and something to put the balls in. Tote maybe? Also there will be high goals like 2013. This is just a guess, but looking at previous games compared to FTC I'd be surprised if this isn't at least a little accurate.

[Matt_Boehm_329]

I just want noodles as launch-able game pieces. Preferably requiring them to travel at least 1/2 the field with considerable accuracy.

[vladtheimpaled]

Given the fact that this year's game had pool noodles, I'm guessing a pool will be part of next years game. The pool noodles were just training for next year's game where you have to pick up pool noodles while inside a pool.

[WillNess]

This year in the reveal video FIRST seemed to lean to how much they wanted people to not only use pool noodles but to pick them up with the robots. In this season I personally did not see a single robot do this and I would not be surprised if this made Dean a bit disappointed. So I am thinking for the 2016 game he may try and reuse the pool noodles and make the game more focused on them. Thoughts?

At the Arizona West regional there was a robot that was made to pick up a noodle. It was a box with an arm on top that grabs noodles and that was it.

[Dan Petrovic]

I'm expecting us to see a lot of small balls on the field (Tennis or Squash) and a relatively open field.

That would actually introduce the very real engineering challenge of having to drive around on the field without having the balls interfere with your drive-train.

It would be especially interesting if they also had ramps or platforms that teams had to climb over.

[Loose Screw]

That would actually introduce the very real engineering challenge of having to drive around on the field without having the balls interfere with your drive-train.

It would be especially interesting if they also had ramps or platforms that teams had to climb over.

So like FTC 2014-15 Cascade Effect?

[Louis_]

Did anybody else notice the tetras in the background during the reveal? I bet it'll be Triple Play 2: Robotic Boogaloo.

We may have tetras but we won't have stacking again.

[Zach101]

This thread is called "Possibility for 2016 Game"...Yes I think there will be a game in 2016:rolleyes: :D

[Yamin]

This thread is called "Possibility for 2016 Game"...Yes I think there will be a game in 2016:rolleyes: :D

Your a genious

[Yamin]

2011 was the 20th anniversary of FRC, so they had a FIRST-based game. Scoring the FIRST logo gave you bonus points, and the addition of mini-bots was to try to get FRC teams to work with FTC teams.

2015's game hint showed all the previous games being played, but didn't recycle the games.

Because 2016 will be the 25th anniversary of FRC, a "landmark year", I think we see a combination of previous game elements.

Here's hoping for a 2009 playing field and wheels, playing the 2008 game with 2015 litter, divided in half with 2012 co-op bridges, and 2011 minibots climbing the 2013 pyramid.

What, not a good idea?

You just blew my mind and most likely my team's wallet

[GreyingJay]

Your a genious

*you're

;)

[ImMoMo]

2016 Football game would be amazing, it'll make senior year so much fun!

[Citrus Dad]

Here's the next game (http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/05/19/407736307/robots-are-really-bad-at-folding-towels). It's part of a campaign by FIRST to teach teenagers how to pick up after themselves.

[kyle_hamblett]

Edit: I think Football would make a great game
Agreed... I may or may not have already drawn out a football launcher...

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

Agreed... I may or may not have already drawn out a football launcher...

yeah... I didn't either :rolleyes:

[Ichlieberoboter]

Here's the next game (http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/05/19/407736307/robots-are-really-bad-at-folding-towels). It's part of a campaign by FIRST to teach teenagers how to pick up after themselves.

You know come to think of it, robots would be really bad at folding towels. Ah! So difficult!

[Citrus Dad]

You know come to think of it, robots would be really bad at folding towels. Ah! So difficult!

Yeah, but teenagers are even worse! I can speak from experience!!!;)

[MichaelMcQuinn]

Yeah, but teenagers are even worse! I can speak from experience!!!;)


Folding towels? How about folding two at the same time!:D

[Yamin]

Given the fact that this year's game had pool noodles, I'm guessing a pool will be part of next years game. The pool noodles were just training for next year's game where you have to pick up pool noodles while inside a pool.

We can only hope XD

[TheBoulderite]

My personal hope is that they use Recycle Rush++, in which the robots must pick up the pool noodles, and are permitted to use tote cannons. The tote cannons would shoot totes onto the other side of the field and knock down the other alliance's stacks.

[chrisfl]

Next years game is going to be something involving triangles or 3's. Look at the buttons they give out with each game; Aerial Assist, the button was a circle, there was a large circular ball. Recycle rush, the button is a square, there were squarish boxes that we had to stack. FIRST probably wants to have next years button be a triangle to make the first logo with all 3 buttons. This means that the game piece will be something with a triangle. If it is FIRST's 25 anniversary in 2016 and they want to use old game pieces then maybe they want to replay Triple Play or make a triangle game.

[Rman1923]

In response to the glaring lack of interaction (aka violence) in this year's game FIRST will bring back violence and then some by having robots be the goal/target and score as many hit points as possible on opposing robots. Bonus points for making hard contact dents with bumper to bumper interaction. There will even be an endgame where teams deploy drones to attack drive teams with Nerf darts. Human players armed with baseball bat will stand ready to swat marauding drones from the sky.

A.K.A, Aerial Assault (with slightly more excitement)

[DrewMatic]

One game that I would love to do in the next few years would be golf :) I am not so sure if it would work well...

[BenGuy]

In response to the glaring lack of interaction (aka violence) in this year's game FIRST will bring back violence and then some by having robots be the goal/target and score as many hit points as possible on opposing robots. Bonus points for making hard contact dents with bumper to bumper interaction. There will even be an endgame where teams deploy drones to attack drive teams with Nerf darts. Human players armed with baseball bat will stand ready to swat marauding drones from the sky.

YES!!!!!!!! Best game ever, I'm so in! I think that FIRST will go back to an offense / defense game though next year just because of how boring this year's game was to spectate than last year's.

[BariSaxGuy]

Wheels aren't allowed. You must make a flying robot.

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

Wheels aren't allowed. You must make a flying robot.

I've seen a team at Montreal back in 2013 that was on wooden blocks... they only climbed the pyramid, so no need for wheels! :eek:

[MDWay]

The PE teacher in me is hoping for robotics dodgeball.

Dodge
Duck
Dip
Dive
and Dodge...
with robots.

[MDWay]

On that happy note, I may have my in-class robotics challenge for next year.

[GeeTwo]

The PE teacher in me is hoping for robotics dodgeball.

Dodge
Duck
Dip
Dive
and Dodge...
with robots.

On that happy note, I may have my in-class robotics challenge for next year.

To simulate dodgeball, you will also need to have minimum size requirements in each dimension at specified heights. Otherwise, you'll get two-dimensional robots that are almost impossible to hit from the thin side.

[MDWay]

Or require robots to display a KOP included target in all four directions in an unobstructed way. Make that worth more points than the robot frame itself. This could also encourage more vision tracking systems and first-person onboard cameras.

This challenge could also include points awarded for catching balls that hit you before they hit the floor, in true dodgeball form.

I find that idea intriguing if only because it turns the robots into the targets.

[Robert Cawthon]

How about a game of 8 ball? Pool is about as close to a water game as we will likely get. :yikes:

[BenGuy]

Definitely going to be FRC Battlebots next year

[GeeTwo]

Definitely going to be FRC Battlebots next year

Not while Woodie's with FIRST. I suspect he preferred Recycle Rush to Aerial Assault because there were fewer opportunities for kinetic attacks.

[ENIAC]

I remember during the 2011 lead-up I was very excited with all of the speculation involving trains. I had it in my head that the game was going to be one where there was no steering, all robots were on rails (think roller coaster track) and there would be heavy focus on object manipulation. Every year since, I have hoped for a game involving trains, if only for the sheer largely-impractical glory of it.

[Michael Hill]

I would be surprised... Did you notice how they break up so easily? Would make such a huge mess on the field, and they would have to replace them more often
:deadhorse:

Edit: I think Football would make a great game

Footballs are the new water game.

[MikLast]

I remember during the 2011 lead-up I was very excited with all of the speculation involving trains. I had it in my head that the game was going to be one where there was no steering, all robots were on rails (think roller coaster track) and there would be heavy focus on object manipulation. Every year since, I have hoped for a game involving trains, if only for the sheer largely-impractical glory of it.

All my years of learning about model trains would be perfect for this.

[MoistRobot]

I'm still holding out for skee ball with bowling balls of different (hidden) weights with a ball balancing aspect for the end game.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

I'm still holding out for skee ball with bowling balls of different (hidden) weights with a ball balancing aspect for the end game.

I'm waiting for a hovercraft game with Ping-Pong balls as the game piece.

[Jacob Bendicksen]

Or require robots to display a KOP included target in all four directions in an unobstructed way. Make that worth more points than the robot frame itself. This could also encourage more vision tracking systems and first-person onboard cameras.

This challenge could also include points awarded for catching balls that hit you before they hit the floor, in true dodgeball form.

I find that idea intriguing if only because it turns the robots into the targets.

I really like this idea. Vaguely like Lunacy, but less stupid :D

This would also help with the lack of emphasis on good programming that's been discussed in other threads recently.

[E Dawg]

I speculate the game will have something to do with this game being the 25th anniversary. Maize Craze reboot with Roombas instead of corn?

But seriously, I think there will be references to some (or all!) past games.

[carpedav000]

I think ball game with 2007-esque end game.

[TheBoulderite]

Whatever the next game is, I think Dean should get the guys from BattleBots to do a show just before Einsteins.

[logank013]

The last 2 years reused similar game pieces

2nd yoga ball game in 2014
2nd tote game (totes were slightly different) in 2015
Can we see Frisbees or Soccer Balls in the next years?

[carpedav000]

The last 2 years reused similar game pieces

2nd yoga ball game in 2014
2nd tote game (totes were slightly different) in 2015
Can we see Frisbees or Soccer Balls in the next years?

Hmm... 2014 uses game peices from 2008, 2015 uses game peices from 2003. If you continue the pattern, 2016 (IN THEORY will re-use game peices from 1998- Ladder Logic

[logank013]

Hmm... 2014 uses game peices from 2008, 2015 uses game peices from 2003. If you continue the pattern, 2016 (IN THEORY will re-use game peices from 1998- Ladder Logic

Haha. What happens after 2017 where they use game peices from 1993. There was no game in 1988. I guess it would rebound and come back. lol

[toppestK3K]

Going back to the topic at hand, most of previous year's games that were interesting to watch were somewhat based off of real sports, such as basketball or soccer. The game has to be both feasible for rookie teams and a challenge for the heavyweights, and by basing it off a real life sport, which also have to be interesting on both a casual and professional level, seems like the most effective strategy for the GDC. When you go through the list of non-contact sports that are popular in the world, volleyball/tennis seems like the next contender for the robot game. It would also likely address some of the concerns about programming not being emphasized enough in FIRST, as many vision tracking robots are likely to be seen at comps if this happens.

[tindleroot]

For some reason, I have the odd feeling that FIRST will introduce a programming challenge that is new to FRC this year (i.e. not vision tracking but something equally challenging)

[Loose Screw]

For some reason, I have the odd feeling that FIRST will introduce a programming challenge that is new to FRC this year (i.e. not vision tracking but something equally challenging)

I remember FTC's Bowled Over game had a thing with magnets in some of the rubber balls, and Ring-it-Up had weighted rings that would give a score multiplier if placed in a different location. Both of these scoring elements went largely unused. These are interesting ideas, but would have to be tested further in FTC to make it into FRC.

Some programming challenges that are common in FRC and FTC are reflective tape and IR beacons. Both of these are used every year now, some more useful than others (who used the reflective tape on the auto totes this year?).

I hope to see more programming challenges in FRC, as there is potential.

[GeeTwo]

I remember FTC's Bowled Over game had a thing with magnets in some of the rubber balls, and Ring-it-Up had weighted rings that would give a score multiplier if placed in a different location. Both of these scoring elements went largely unused. These are interesting ideas, but would have to be tested further in FTC to make it into FRC.

Why would a game element have to be tested in FTC before being introduced into FRC? FTC just came to Louisiana this past year and I have not been involved with it at all, but this sounds backwards to me.

Some programming challenges that are common in FRC and FTC are reflective tape and IR beacons. Both of these are used every year now, some more useful than others (who used the reflective tape on the auto totes this year?).

The reflective tape on the yellow totes would only be useful for a robot that picked up the totes from the long side, and that was interested in maneuvering around the RCs to get to them. The vast majority of teams picked up from the short side this year, and it was more useful to pick one or more of them up, and much easier to just knock the RC aside than to maneuver around them, then go to the long end of the tote (or rotate the tote). Reflective tape is much more likely to be used for goals and objects which are far away and which the robot must drive towards from a distance or launch a projectile into.

[fargus111111111]

I would be surprised... Did you notice how they break up so easily? Would make such a huge mess on the field, and they would have to replace them more often
:deadhorse:

Edit: I think Football would make a great game

while the pool noodles could and did get shredded, the foam balls that FIRST has used time and time again also shred nicely in shooters, especially high power, sudden acceleration shooters. We use our B-Ball shooter for demos and always leave a rather large pile of orange dust.

[bsaleh03]

Dont want to sound like a heckler, but are you just pulling ideas out of the blue, or is there actual evidence? From the way i see it, FRC makes sure that every game is a surprise, and everything can change. While i am extremely ecstatic about robotics 2016, i dont think we'll get anywhere with random guesses.

[EricH]

Dont want to sound like a heckler, but are you just pulling ideas out of the blue, or is there actual evidence? From the way i see it, FRC makes sure that every game is a surprise, and everything can change. While i am extremely ecstatic about robotics 2016, i dont think we'll get anywhere with random guesses.

You obviously haven't been on CD very long. Trust me. It only gets worse from here.

I'll make this short: As soon as the season is over and the offseasons begin, various people start spreading rumors and speculating with absolutely no basis in fact on what the next game will be. Happens every year, regular as clockwork (though some folks try to start it early...).

Every now and again, Frank (the Director of FRC) will drop "non-hints" in the FRC blog (such as the fact that he knows what the game is), which fuel said rumors and speculations.

'Long about registration, someone asks when the hint will come out (answer: sometime in December by tradition). The hint is the official "guess the game, good luck" red herring. If we're (un)lucky, we get more than one. But until Kickoff, nobody* knows what the game will be.


*Unless you count the GDC and whoever has to build field elements--but if you can actually pry it out of them early, they won't be doing that for very long.

[Loose Screw]

Why would a game element have to be tested in FTC before being introduced into FRC? FTC just came to Louisiana this past year and I have not been involved with it at all, but this sounds backwards to me.



The reflective tape on the yellow totes would only be useful for a robot that picked up the totes from the long side, and that was interested in maneuvering around the RCs to get to them. The vast majority of teams picked up from the short side this year, and it was more useful to pick one or more of them up, and much easier to just knock the RC aside than to maneuver around them, then go to the long end of the tote (or rotate the tote). Reflective tape is much more likely to be used for goals and objects which are far away and which the robot must drive towards from a distance or launch a projectile into.

FTC games usually have more scoring options so they can try new things. They can add in a weighted ring bonus or magnetic ball if there already is a solid way to earn points. If teams used those elements for a competitive advantage and won with them, I'm sure we would see that carry over to FRC. They could have easily weighted a few of the landfill totes to offer a bonus like Ring-it-Up did.

To look at the amount of scoring options, compare Cascade Effect to Recycle Rush. Cascade Effect had the most autonomous options I have ever seen in a game. You earned points for moving down a ramp, placing a ball in one or two rolling goals, moving 1-3 rolling goals into your zone, placing a ball in the center goal, and knocking over the kickstand. Recycle Rush you earned points for moving all three robots to the auto zone, moving three RCs to the auto zone, moving all three auto totes into the zone, and stacking all three auto totes in the zone.

For scoring in general, FRC usually focuses on one element where FTC offers multiple objectives. Recycle Rush was entirely dependent on stacking totes. There were teams that specialized in capping, but they couldn't do much if they didn't have a stack to cap. Aeriel Assist was entierly scoring a ball. Ultimate Ascent had two options, Frisbees and pyramid. Cascade Effect had scoring balls into tubes and pushing goals around. Block Party had scoring blocks into a teeter-totter, spinning a crank shaft, and lifting your robot off the ground. Ring-it-Up had a tic-tac-toe peg score board to place rings, weighted rings for a score multiplyer, and lifting your partner up.
FTC has been sort of a "testing grounds" for FRC. Some examples of this include an extra partner for finals and using two fields (MSC 2015).

When it comes to autonomous features, IR beacons have been used in FTC the last few years just as reflective tape has been used in FRC. Both are staples in each game, some years being more useful than others. This year Recycle Rush had the weakest use of reflective tape. The totes started in a set position, so teams used that in their programming. Teams would have used the tape more if the totes were in random places.

I hope I have answered your concerns.

[tindleroot]

FTC has been sort of a "testing grounds" for FRC.

I see it as a two-way street. FTC and FRC have both incorporated elements of each other. For example, Ring it Up shows obvious analogies to FRC Triple Play (Tic Tac Toe bonuses) and Logomotion (rings on pegs) and FTC Cascade effect brings back the moving goals that were popular in FRC in 2001, 2002, and 2004. Of course, the games have differences, but FTC is not just a testing ground for FRC, FTC also uses elements that have been proven by FRC.

[Loose Screw]

I see it as a two-way street. FTC and FRC have both incorporated elements of each other. For example, Ring it Up shows obvious analogies to FRC Triple Play (Tic Tac Toe bonuses) and Logomotion (rings on pegs) and FTC Cascade effect brings back the moving goals that were popular in FRC in 2001, 2002, and 2004. Of course, the games have differences, but FTC is not just a testing ground for FRC, FTC also uses elements that have been proven by FRC.

You're right, I forgot about that side. It does work both ways. I just hope that they learn from Bowled Over and always put a height cap on robots. Could you imagine a FRC robot playing a Bowled Over type game? That would be crazy.

[tindleroot]

You're right, I forgot about that side. It does work both ways. I just hope that they learn from Bowled Over and always put a height cap on robots. Could you imagine a FRC robot playing a Bowled Over type game? That would be crazy.

For the lifting aspect, that's called FRC 1999 Double Trouble. For the quickest example I can find, check out this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdnP8iXpmXM). Floppies (round discs) would score more points at the end of a match based on the height off the ground (sound familiar?)

[Matt C]

For the lifting aspect, that's called FRC 1999 Double Trouble. For the quickest example I can find, check out this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdnP8iXpmXM). Floppies (round discs) would score more points at the end of a match based on the height off the ground (sound familiar?)

Yes, I remember the horrors of 10 foot tall robots falling over. :ahh:

[tindleroot]

Yes, I remember the horrors of 10 foot tall robots falling over. :ahh:

Our 15-foot robot fell over a few times in 2005, too.

[pmangels17]

In the spirit of these types of threads, I haven't read anything in this thread except the first and last pages, but I'd like to pose an idea that I consider original but that somebody mentioned a few pages back. ::rtm::

[EDesbiens]

19243
Nothing else to add...

[Maximillian]

19243
Nothing else to add...

We can all hope

[Peyton Yeung]

19243
Nothing else to add...

I don't think I could play another soccer game again :rolleyes:

[EDesbiens]

I don't think I could play another soccer game again :rolleyes:

Love that comment :)

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

I don't think I could play another soccer game again :rolleyes:

what you did there... i saw that

[Christopher149]

We can all hope

But the kerning between the A and V is bothering me.

[EDesbiens]

But the kerning between the A and V is bothering me.

Same here!

[Darkseer54]

I know! Lets play aerial assist again, but with frisbees! ... or totes!

We get to fling the totes across the field, just like everyone wanted to this year! Or we get to try to catch frisbees, which would mean no driving for half the match chasing it, as it would sit still on the ground!


EDIT: Going through old threads someone pointed something out. This year we will have to lift robots as 2007, 2010, and 2013 involved lifting robots as an endgame, so 2016 could continue this pattern.

[EDesbiens]

That's cool, I hope it's true :)

[GeeTwo]

This year we will have to lift robots as 2007, 2010, and 2013 involved lifting robots as an endgame, so 2016 could continue this pattern.

The pattern appears to go back farther. 2004 (FIRST Frenzy: Raising the Bar) also included robots hanging from a bar. If they do this, it will be the first end game since 2013.

On another note, it appears that the Average Joes (3620) are thinking the next game might be called Laundry Launch (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/42293).

[Noudvanbrunscho]

If they do this, it will be the first end game since 2013.


Pleaaaasee give us an endgame :)

[BenGuy]

This year in the reveal video FIRST seemed to lean to how much they wanted people to not only use pool noodles but to pick them up with the robots. In this season I personally did not see a single robot do this and I would not be surprised if this made Dean a bit disappointed. So I am thinking for the 2016 game he may try and reuse the pool noodles and make the game more focused on them. Thoughts?

They had already planned the 2016 game before 2015 was released, they're always planning for 2 years ahead. So maybe for 2017, but the 2016 game was already decided, so no.

[EDesbiens]

They had already planned the 2016 game before 2015 was released, they're always planning for 2 years ahead. So maybe for 2017, but the 2016 game was already decided, so no.

So we might get another year without any offensive contact? :(

[tindleroot]

So we might get another year without any offensive contact? :(

It all depends. Maybe, maybe not. The 2016 was not finalized during the 2015 season so they may change aspects of the game, but the general ideas and objectives of the game were already planned out well in advance.

[EDesbiens]

It all depends. Maybe, maybe not. The 2016 was not finalized during the 2015 season so they may change aspects of the game, but the general ideas and objectives of the game were already planned out well in advance.

But I want offensive contacts! I felt this year was like FLL... Doing the same task again and again... The other years you could at least have fun bumping the other robots :)

[Darkseer54]

I have a feeling that if we do have a climbing/lifting end game next year we may see a lot more PTOs.
Then again I am no Car Nack. :rolleyes:

[jprapacki]

Two words: Tethered drones. Could have used them in Recycle Rush to place litter in the containers. Don't be surprised if the 2016 game contains more vertical elements in the game with, potentially, the opportunity for the drive team to use their skills flying drones.

[EDesbiens]

Two words: Tethered drones. Could have used them in Recycle Rush to place litter in the containers. Don't be surprised if the 2016 game contains more vertical elements in the game with, potentially, the opportunity for the drive team to use their skills flying drones.

Those cost a lot and break pretty easily... You sure it could happen?

[jajabinx124]

Two words: Tethered drones. Could have used them in Recycle Rush to place litter in the containers.

2826 tried something like this in their pre champs release video (https://youtu.be/To-zvhNA9bY?t=78).

[RomeroFRC5012]

This year in the reveal video FIRST seemed to lean to how much they wanted people to not only use pool noodles but to pick them up with the robots. In this season I personally did not see a single robot do this and I would not be surprised if this made Dean a bit disappointed. So I am thinking for the 2016 game he may try and reuse the pool noodles and make the game more focused on them. Thoughts?

Personally i think that they will reuse the pool noodles but at a later date

[mwmac]

[QUOTE=RomeroFRC5012;1492807]Personally i think that they will reuse the pool noodles but at a later date[/QUOTE

Easy prediction: noodles will be reused next year...Bumpers!

[EDesbiens]

Easy prediction: noodles will be reused next year...Bumpers!

I hope so! No bumpers = no contact = :(

[EricH]

I hope so! No bumpers = no contact = :(

There are so many ways I could respond...But I think I'll go with geezer mode.

Back in my day, bumpers were these things that were totally useless! They took weight away from other components, and nobody else had them either! We had full-speed, metal-on-metal contact that could be heard from the top of the stands, and we liked it! I don't know what this generation is coming to, they think bumpers are required! Well they oughtta build stronger 'bots is all! Nothin' wrong with a robot using welded 1/8" tubing in the drivetrain and not a bumper in sight!


Bear in mind that bumpers were OPTIONAL my last two years as a student ('06 and '07). Before that, you built to take whatever hit you. (Or developed OTHER means of defense--though I do recall hearing something about weight-transferring bumpers from Las Guerrillas back around the '05 timeframe when a lot of teams ran wedges on their robots).

[EDesbiens]

There are so many ways I could respond...But I think I'll go with geezer mode.

Back in my day, bumpers were these things that were totally useless! They took weight away from other components, and nobody else had them either! We had full-speed, metal-on-metal contact that could be heard from the top of the stands, and we liked it! I don't know what this generation is coming to, they think bumpers are required! Well they oughtta build stronger 'bots is all! Nothin' wrong with a robot using welded 1/8" tubing in the drivetrain and not a bumper in sight!


Bear in mind that bumpers were OPTIONAL my last two years as a student ('06 and '07). Before that, you built to take whatever hit you. (Or developed OTHER means of defense--though I do recall hearing something about weight-transferring bumpers from Las Guerrillas back around the '05 timeframe when a lot of teams ran wedges on their robots).

I meant that if bumpers are not required, it's because there will be no contacts... I want contacts and I would prefer metal to metal hits... It's sad that we can't even ram from too far anymore... :(

[EricH]

I meant that if bumpers are not required, it's because there will be no contacts... I want contacts and I would prefer metal to metal hits... It's sad that we can't even ram from too far anymore... :(
I don't think so. I suspect that there will be a thorough retooling of the bumper rules, and that the required bumpers (or at least the amount of required bumpers) will be looked at very carefully...


...Because bumper construction is one of the best indicators of quality out there! And there are a lot of teams out there who can barely make a bumper that is legal as it is, let alone a solidly-constructed, high-quality bumper. OTOH, the teams that take the time to make the bumpers right generally have high-quality robots as well.

[Yamin]

There are so many ways I could respond...But I think I'll go with geezer mode.

Back in my day, bumpers were these things that were totally useless! They took weight away from other components, and nobody else had them either! We had full-speed, metal-on-metal contact that could be heard from the top of the stands, and we liked it! I don't know what this generation is coming to, they think bumpers are required! Well they oughtta build stronger 'bots is all! Nothin' wrong with a robot using welded 1/8" tubing in the drivetrain and not a bumper in sight!


Bear in mind that bumpers were OPTIONAL my last two years as a student ('06 and '07). Before that, you built to take whatever hit you. (Or developed OTHER means of defense--though I do recall hearing something about weight-transferring bumpers from Las Guerrillas back around the '05 timeframe when a lot of teams ran wedges on their robots).

That is a good point however I believe that the bumpers allow for more competitive games though such as arial assist which would not have been as fun without bumpers due to the fact that penalties would be easier to receive and robots would be extremely worn by the end of the competition. However in games like recycle rush or other minimal contact games bumpers should be optional.

[Brrch]

I remember during the 2011 lead-up I was very excited with all of the speculation involving trains. I had it in my head that the game was going to be one where there was no steering, all robots were on rails (think roller coaster track) and there would be heavy focus on object manipulation. Every year since, I have hoped for a game involving trains, if only for the sheer largely-impractical glory of it.

Imagine if Recycle Rush was on rails, and robots could switch the railroad of the opposing alliance.

[ShotgunNinja]

My predictions:


Triangular game piece
Endgame involving lifting
Vision targets or IR beacons which go unused
Option for coopertition points with opposing team
Rubber ducks glued to every single driver station
Bumpers
A football carried by the MC at every event
Emphasis on programmed robot-to-robot comm OR field positioning system
No water or footballs in the actual game

[pandamonium]

If they were going to reuse a game piece I think that inner tubes would be a strong possibility as vertical stacking would be a very different game. If they wanted to fix and improve an old game I think that the 2009 concept of robots carrying or being targets could be done better. Have a 3 foot deep basket attached on top of robots with a smaller game piece like tennis balls. Improving old games is pretty much what they did with recycle rush as it is very close to 2004.

As far as new game pieces go footballs are the next logical choice for a complex sports based challenge that would still be easy enough for rookies.

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

Vision targets or IR beacons which go unused



You don't say :yikes:

[Robert Cawthon]

If you want to shoot things and have an interesting target, have bowling pins (plastic, of course) set up on the field. Shoot tennis balls at them. Robots cannot pass midfield. Scoring is done at the end of the game by how many pins left standing. Defense can either block balls or reset pins knocked over. Simple rules. Speed of ball and vertical angle must be limited but other than that, almost anything would go. ;)

[BBray_T1296]

ISpeed of ball and vertical angle must be limited but other than that, almost anything would go. ;)

Vertical angle could be solved with a wall/ceiling preventing balls at unwanted trajectories.

How would you catch a robot shooting a ball too fast? Refs wielding radar guns? If they did some sort of inspection in the pits, I think people would intentionally force their shooter wheel to spin slower (Software limiting) that they would only engage for the inspection.

[GeeTwo]

How would you catch a robot shooting a ball too fast? Refs wielding radar guns?

The easiest way would be to mandate a maximum distance between launch and the ball hitting the floor, and a maximum distance traveled between bounces. You can't realistically measure it exactly, but it's something you can have a ref watch for.

[Knufire]

They've already had a launch velocity limiting rule before, in 2006.

Muzzle Velocity - No ROBOT may throw a ball with an exit velocity of greater than 12 m/s (26.8 mph).
As a reference, a ball traveling at this velocity when leaving the ROBOT at an angle of 30º from
horizontal with no spin will travel approximately 35 feet. A robot that violates this rule will be considered
unsafe per <S01>.

[BBray_T1296]

The easiest way would be to mandate a maximum distance between launch and the ball hitting the floor, and a maximum distance traveled between bounces. You can't realistically measure it exactly, but it's something you can have a ref watch for.

They've already had a launch velocity limiting rule before, in 2006.

Alright. It could be done.

Also, felt I should link to the 2015-2016 FTC game animation (https://youtu.be/b49Q3kqrSv0?t=3m18s) released today, as it could be relevant in the whole "it seems a lot harder than previous years [of FTC]"

[dirtbikerxz]

Whatever it is, I doubt the field will be separated again. First got hell for not having defense, almost everyone agrees this was one of the not good games.

[BBray_T1296]

Whatever it is, I doubt the field will be separated again. First got hell for not having defense, almost everyone agrees this was one of the not good games.

I am nearly 100% sure the step was added relatively last-minute because there was incessant moaning, groaning, whining and complaining about too much defense in 2014. I think the GDC said "Fine. Let's see how you like NO defense".

Recycle Rush makes lots of sense if you remove the step. Just replace it with another field-spanning line if totes (or fill in the landfill completely). Remove the noodles, make the stack scoring platforms on the far side of the field where you score, make the zone closes to the driver station, as well as the scoring platforms "safe" zones. Would have been a really cool game, though probably far more difficult.

[GeeTwo]

Recycle Rush makes lots of sense if you remove the step. Just replace it with another field-spanning line if totes (or fill in the landfill completely). Remove the noodles, make the stack scoring platforms on the far side of the field where you score, make the zone closes to the driver station, as well as the scoring platforms "safe" zones. Would have been a really cool game, though probably far more difficult.

You'd certainly have to change a lot of other rules as well. A 27-foot wide bulldozer 'bot could probably push the entire landfill into the other field, causing the sort of litter that would make you beg for noodles. The best defense is another 27 foot bulldozer (or at least brace), and then you have the step all over again, this time with an inaccessible landfill.

[dirtbikerxz]

You'd certainly have to change a lot of other rules as well. A 27-foot wide bulldozer 'bot could probably push the entire landfill into the other field, causing the sort of litter that would make you beg for noodles. The best defense is another 27 foot bulldozer (or at least brace), and then you have the step all over again, this time with an inaccessible landfill.

Exactly what I was about to say, there would just be roller skates ramming into the pile as fast as possible. And it would get annoying, ur carrying a six stack with can and noodle, suddenly some one slams u, and it goes down... all over. Lets just not do anything with stacking again.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Exactly what I was about to say, there would just be roller skates ramming into the pile as fast as possible. And it would get annoying, ur carrying a six stack with can and noodle, suddenly some one slams u, and it goes down... all over. Lets just not do anything with stacking again.

Easily corrected.

Create a safe zone near the alliance wall and have scoring there (Note: this would block line of sight) and have any knocked down stack (knocked down by the opponents) count and can be rebuilt for more points.

You'd see teams moving bins on the field, but only stacking in the safe zones (which would get crowded fast).

[dirtbikerxz]

Easily corrected.

Create a safe zone near the alliance wall and have scoring there (Note: this would block line of sight) and have any knocked down stack (knocked down by the opponents) count and can be rebuilt for more points.

You'd see teams moving bins on the field, but only stacking in the safe zones (which would get crowded fast).

Ya, the safe zone will save the stacked ones, but bots that stack from the landfill will be unprotected on the way back to the scoring zone.

[Robert Cawthon]

How would you catch a robot shooting a ball too fast? Refs wielding radar guns? If they did some sort of inspection in the pits, I think people would intentionally force their shooter wheel to spin slower (Software limiting) that they would only engage for the inspection.

This was addressed in the 2006 game. Radar guns at inspection and (as I recall) randomly. I was not aware of any shenanigans. But, I don't think the ball speed would affect knocking down plastic bowling pins very much.

[EricH]

This was addressed in the 2006 game. Radar guns at inspection and (as I recall) randomly. I was not aware of any shenanigans. But, I don't think the ball speed would affect knocking down plastic bowling pins very much.

Well, not quite radar, but close enough.

The inspection gadget was a "box", open at both ends and about 2 feet long as I recall. Each end had a beam-break sensor. You got one shot through the box (usually some "lucky" team member would hold a deflector plate to bounce the test ball away from everybody else's pit).

For those of you who are interested: Calculate the time for a foam basketball to travel 2' when fired at 12m/s. Pretty simple solution to a pretty easy problem, right? Now add in bouncing off the sides on a bad hold...

[runneals]

I think it would be cool to do like what FTC did this year recycling the past 2 game pieces into a whole new game... What could you do with frisbees and yoga balls? :D

[EricH]

I think it would be cool to do like what FTC did this year recycling the past 2 game pieces into a whole new game... What could you do with frisbees and yoga balls? :D

Raise the Bar: Because it isn't high enough already!


I'd come up with some way to recycle the 2004 game, using frisbees and large balls. Don't ask me what yet, but given time I'm sure I could come up with something.

To any GDC members reading this: Please forget you ever saw this post.

[GeeTwo]

I think it would be cool to do like what FTC did this year recycling the past 2 game pieces into a whole new game... What could you do with frisbees and yoga balls? :D

The mass imbalance is greater than between pool noodles and RCs/totes. Yoga balls could deflect frisbees, but frisbees would be ineffective against yoga balls. Perhaps there's a balanced game somewhere in which the yoga balls are used for defense most of the game, but scored somewhere else for an endgame bonus that doesn't occur to me right now.

[Darkseer54]

I think it would be cool to do like what FTC did this year recycling the past 2 game pieces into a whole new game... What could you do with frisbees and yoga balls? :D

How about we do 3 games? Shoot basketballs into the top of pyramids, then for the endgame you can climb the pyramid and place a yoga-ball on top.

[runneals]

How about we do 3 games? Shoot basketballs into the top of pyramids, then for the endgame you can climb the pyramid and place a yoga-ball on top.

YES!!!!!!!! :D

[tealmini]

Has else anyone seen the new Frank Answers Friday (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-Frank-Answers-Friday-Pool-Noodles)? Maybe… maybe you need the noodles on your bumper… to help your robot float… in water… WATER GAME 2016 CONFIRMED! :ahh:

[JB987]

It has been 7 years since we have had a mobile goal...

[Eugene Fang]

It has been 7 years since we have had a mobile goal...

My initial thought was "no, we just had one with Lunacy." Now I feel old.

[EricH]

My initial thought was "no, we just had one with Lunacy." Now I feel old.

Heh. It only took them 5 years between mobile goal games last time.

Now I feel really old...

[ShotgunNinja]

My initial thought was "no, we just had one with Lunacy." Now I feel old.

I've put the time to good use: Finished a Bachelor's (MSOE, Software Engineering, class of '14), got a decent job after graduation, and all the while volunteered at my local competition!

[Arron1999]

We must remember that they already had the 2016 game figured out before we played recycle rush

[EDesbiens]

We must remember that they already had the 2016 game figured out before we played recycle rush

I read in another post (let me find out what it is :) ) that they changed the game for this year to produce better marketing footage... Since the 2015 game was not that exciting to watch, they maybe changed the 2016 game to something cool for the audience...

[roialex]

So First just posted this on there Facebook's page: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/10/151007-woolly-mammoth-michigan-extinction-humans-science/

Is that an Hint ? Hype train continue!!!!


Archeology Rush 2016 ??????

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

So First just posted this on there Facebook's page: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/10/151007-woolly-mammoth-michigan-extinction-humans-science/

Is that an Hint ? Hype train continue!!!!


Archeology Rush 2016 ??????

Woolly Mammoth Unearthed in Michigan—What Killed TheseGiants?

Giants are a football team playing in the NFL... it's the 50th Super Bowl and First's 25th this year

2016 Football game confirmed

[Hitchhiker 42]

The recent game focused on a current issue, so maybe they'll do that again. Or they will go back to sports-theme (basketball, frisbee, track in Overdrive, soccer, etc.)

[EDesbiens]

The recent game focused on a current issue, so maybe they'll do that again. Or they will go back to sports-theme (basketball, frisbee, track in Overdrive, soccer, etc.)

I'd prefer sports I think... :)

[EricH]

Giants are a football team playing in the NFL... it's the 50th Super Bowl and First's 25th this year

2016 Football game confirmed

Sorry, I think you emphasized the wrong word. Mammoth obviously refers to Mammoth Mountain (ski resort) and/or Mammoth Lakes (town hosting said ski resort). What do we ski on? Water, frozen into snow. (The "Lakes" part should be pretty obvious where I'm going.) Therefore...

...2016 water game confirmed. Though I could be wrong, it might be 2017 or 2018.

[DaveL]

I would like to see a football or dodge ball game with footballs or tennis balls.
You score points for hitting targets on other robots and by passing balls to your alliance member bots. Robots could be programmed to dodge or catch balls.

Build Mentor Dave

[EDesbiens]

I would like to see a football or dodge ball game with footballs or tennis balls.
You score points for hitting targets on other robots and by passing balls to your alliance member bots. Robots could be programmed to dodge or catch balls.

Build Mentor Dave

Tennis balls would be awesome... I would love to shoot at other people :)

[mastachyra]

Sorry, I think you emphasized the wrong word. Mammoth obviously refers to Mammoth Mountain (ski resort) and/or Mammoth Lakes (town hosting said ski resort). What do we ski on? Water, frozen into snow. (The "Lakes" part should be pretty obvious where I'm going.) Therefore...

...2016 water game confirmed. Though I could be wrong, it might be 2017 or 2018.

Sorry, but YOU emphasized the wrong mammoth. They are still referring to the animal. The mammoth had tusks made of ivory. Piano keys are ivory. Therefore...

Piano game confirmed! :ahh: I'll be quiet now

[x18181x]

Has any one though of the possibility that this game has something to do with tents? I mean (from FRC blog):

Like the folks that make game trailers, we’re keeping in mind people outside the tent [...] Folks inside the tent have not been forgotten, though!

I was thinking there might be a scenario where the drive team won't be able to see the bot while doing something.

[GeeTwo]

I've been living in a "big tent" (Episcopal Church) so long, I didn't think of this literally. I suspect that "big tent" is actually a near-homonym for "big tint", so it obviously involves Elton John and his sunglasses.

The reference to "reaching outside the tent" is obviously an inverted reference to "letting something inside the tent", in this case the camel's nose, or perhaps the whole camel.

Camels and modern machines meet most commonly at the waterfront, where camels interpose between ships and piers, serving as bumpers.

And we've already been told that pool noodles will be used as bumpers this year! That's two linkages of water and bumpers without working up a sweat.

Elton didn't write much about literal sailors; the closest I can come up with is Rocket Man. The only "bumpers" he mentions are that "It's going to be a long, long time, before touchdown brings me 'round again..".

So clearly, we are going to have much, much longer than 2:30 per match this year, meaning that we will only have one or a very few matches at each event. To misquote the most interesting man in the world, "Make the most of each match, my friends".

[runneals]

2016 Aerial Aqua... Levitating above water