2016 Football Game

[RedWing21]

With a lot of people missing the competition that everyone had in rebound rumble, I would be surprised if they didn't create a game that was orientated around creating a team versus team game.
There is no better way to have competition than to have it be sports related and with the NFL being a huge cooperation with lots of ways to influence the game through TV ads and support through Play 60...I would say Football is an amazing game for the upcoming 2016 season.

What do you guys think of a 2016 football game?

[MikLast]

not interconnected enough. needs more spook.


Seriously though, i dont think football would happen. too easy to figure out and i just dont see how that would work well.

[Travis Hoffman]

Hockey means only one thing....THE RETURN OF REGOLITH!

[Jay O'Donnell]

Soccer has already been done so I don't see why it would be done again.

[asid61]

Remember that thread a while back about breaking the world record for how fast a hockey puck could be shot with a robot?
Safety glasses aren't going to stop a puck moving at 120mph.
Same with baseball and softball.
Soccer already happened (2010).

So my vote is for football. I'm surprised we haven't seen that yet honestly.

[The_ShamWOW88]

I see footballs as a game-piece in the near future but not necessarily mimicking the sport exactly. Something like 2006 with different goal set-ups and using same material footballs and not spherical balls.

[Richard Wallace]

Poof Footballs would make excellent gamepieces, IF human players are NOT permitted to touch them.

[SenorZ]

Football! ...wait... american football?

J/k. Just think, we had a year without bumpers. Now we'll have bumpers AND helmets!!!

[kgzak]

Poof Footballs would make excellent gamepieces, IF human players are NOT permitted to touch them.

It'd be cool if human players could touch them but you had to score on the same side of the field as your human player. That way the human player wasn't able to score. It be cool to see long distance reloading though.

Honestly, Soccer or hockey are the best sport to imitate with robots. No down time and a continuous match. A football only game doesn't seem like it would be a good game as footballs are very easy to make them go where you want. hockey would not use hockey pucks as they are very dangerous so the only thing I would think you could pull from hockey is the ice part, but because hockey players skate, the ice really isn't that big of an issue for them so really nothing can be incorporated that would make the game "obviously hockey." Football throwers already exist and would be easy to emulate. Accuracy of the shot wouldn't be hard as that's how footballs are designed. Soccer would be fun but as others have pointed out, it's been done before and unless they make it similar rules to Breakaway, where the ball can only go a little ways inside of the robot, then ball games are really over done. Most of them end up with people rebuilding older robots just slightly modified for the new game.

The best game would be something like this year where the game piece is weirder. Something of a shape we have never seen before that makes it hard to pickup and manipulate. Something like Tetras from before but different. Maybe something like a Penrose Triangle. These games may not be some of the most entertaining to watch but they are by far my favorite games.

[GeeTwo]

I'm trying to figure out what soccer (international football) means in terms of robots. In abstract, soccer is essentially the same as hockey or polo except that you don't use an implement or even your hands to manipulate the game piece. Would soccer mean that robots could not use any manipulators except drive wheels and the chassis? Sorry, but I'm not feelin' it.

American football - the down structure would be utterly unusable unless we had much longer matches. We would have to cut the number of matches down by a factor of ten - sort of like the difference between MLB/NBA and the NFL. And if you get rid of the down structure and other stuff that only makes sense because of it, you're pretty close to rugby - see next paragraph.

Hockey, that's just like Aerial Assist except that you can't actually "posess" the ball. AA was more like rugby than anything else - I even remember the announcer referring to a scrum on the red end of the field.

Baseball/softball - forget it. There were only a few dozen robots that caught the high lob in Aerial Assist - who (except the Cheezy Poofs) could make contact, much less a base hit?

Hockey's the only one that makes any sense, but I"m going to stick with my "many balls" theory and abstain.

[Lil' Lavery]

I'm trying to figure out what soccer (international football) means in terms of robots. In abstract, soccer is essentially the same as hockey or polo except that you don't use an implement or even your hands to manipulate the game piece. Would soccer mean that robots could not use any manipulators except drive wheels and the chassis? Sorry, but I'm not feelin' it.

See Breakaway, 2010's FRC game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEHAj3EmpMw

Balls were not allowed to enter a robot's frame by more than 3". Robots were not allowed to lift balls off the ground. Robots were now allowed to use mechanisms in motion (relative to the frame) to manipulate balls off the ground. Robots were not allowed to extend beyond their frame perimeter for more than a few seconds. Mechanisms were still used to manipulate balls, but they had to meet these requirements.

[carpedav000]

Would hockey involve the return of the Lunacy field?

[galewind]

being that superbowl 50 is next year, I wouldn't be surprised.

Come on now, don't tell me I'm the only one that predicted that this year's game would be football, named "FIRST Down"!

[The_ShamWOW88]

Poof Footballs would make excellent gamepieces, IF human players are NOT permitted to touch them.

Very good point. If these were to be used in some fashion, the HPs should be given a unique task that doesn't involve throwing footballs.

However, to be honest, it would be interesting, if a projectile game, the HPs could only score them in the high goal (assuming it's about the size of the inside diameter of a tire) to simulate throwing a football at a tire swing in your backyard (only from your driver station, over the station wall, across the field). That wouldn't be that easy, even for a traditional Quarterback.

Besides, it doesn't mean they have to be full-size footballs either, FIRST could troll us with the mini-poof footballs that are all but impossible to throw like a traditional football.


American football - the down structure would be utterly unusable unless we had much longer matches. We would have to cut the number of matches down by a factor of ten - sort of like the difference between MLB/NBA and the NFL. And if you get rid of the down structure and other stuff that only makes sense because of it, you're pretty close to rugby - see next paragraph.


As I said, I think they could incorporate the football as a game-piece but not entirely the same rules as American football. I like your idea of Rugby but I would argue that 2014 morphed into something closer to Rugby by the end, what with all the defense being played.

I could almost see having multiple goalposts and having to "kick" the footballs through them to score varied number of points. Similar to field-goals in American football or "drop-goal" in Rugby. Not sure how they would implement multipliers or an end-game but it's a thought.

[carpedav000]

There could be a way to include the down system in endgame. In the last 15 seconds, robots can back up against their alliance wall and "stretch" across the field as far as possible.

3/4 across the field= FIRST down (hey, there's a catchy game name)

FIRST down= 30 points per robot

[rick.oliver]

being that superbowl 50 is next year, I wouldn't be surprised.

Come on now, don't tell me I'm the only one that predicted that this year's game would be football, named "FIRST Down"!

You are not.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1462000#post1462000

I'll give you the name, though

[smart1]

being that superbowl 50 is next year, I wouldn't be surprised.

Come on now, don't tell me I'm the only one that predicted that this year's game would be football, named "FIRST Down"!


I like Flea flicker but First Down is a better name.

[Kuhnahtt]

This year's game was fine, and still competitive, but I feel like FIRST games should be less complicated and more easy to understand for the average person. When FIRST adds all these specific rules and ways to perform an action, it really limits creativity of robot designs. (Not to say there wasn't some really cool ones!)

[ImMoMo]

Having a football oriented game would attract tons of press coverage!
Wouldn't it be cool if it worked like one of the robots was the QB, and other a WR, and the final robot trying to play defense?

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

Having a football oriented game would attract tons of press coverage!
Wouldn't it be cool if it worked like one of the robots was the QB, and other a WR, and the final robot trying to play defense?

I expect more a shooting game involving football-shaped objects with an endgame... just like rebound rumble or ultimate ascent

[Jacob Bendicksen]

Having a football oriented game would attract tons of press coverage!
Wouldn't it be cool if it worked like one of the robots was the QB, and other a WR, and the final robot trying to play defense?

I expect more a shooting game involving football-shaped objects with an endgame... just like rebound rumble or ultimate ascent

I agree with Pikachu...as cool as it would be to have different roles, this would severely limit the number of possible alliances, especially if those roles were FIRST-defined. I'd expect much of the challenge of a football game to come from developing a mechanism that can effectively collect, orient, and shoot a football.

Ultimate Ascent had the only irregular flying game pieces that I can think of, and Frisbees are a lot easier that footballs to deal with.

[dmorewood]

Remember that thread a while back about breaking the world record for how fast a hockey puck could be shot with a robot?
Safety glasses aren't going to stop a puck moving at 120mph.
Same with baseball and softball.


Sooooooo it's called a foam hockey puck. I use them all the time for off ice training and it would make the game far more difficult to design for because they don't react like a normal puck. :D

[kyle_hamblett]

not interconnected enough. needs more spook.


Seriously though, i dont think football would happen. too easy to figure out and i just dont see how that would work well.

Footballs are an entirely new shape, and while they might be easy to figure out, it could allow for them to put in another harder element. Example: 2013. Shooting Frisbees is pretty easy, but climbing 10ft into the air, not so much.

[ImMoMo]

Footballs are an entirely new shape, and while they might be easy to figure out, it could allow for them to put in another harder element. Example: 2013. Shooting Frisbees is pretty easy, but climbing 10ft into the air, not so much.

I agree, with footballs being the irregular shape that they are, it might pose a new challenge, although I'm sure FIRST will think of some other game elements to further complex the field and strategy!

[logank013]

Well hockey and baseball sound extremely dangerous unless the balls are made of rubber or foam and, soccer was done back in 2010 I think so, I think football sounds like the best contender of those options.

[jtrv]

I think it could be field hockey, rather than the typical puck-based hockey. With some durable foam-ish (whatever material, just not something that will be shredded in four seconds) balls, they could put goals at different heights for varying points, much like years past. Ground goal 1pt, mid goal 3pts, maybe a high goal (with a net over that area for safety or whatever) for more points.

I think hockey would really allow for more diversity in strategy and builds. Defensive bots can try to be a powerhouse, with a 6 CIM west coast drive and just push people out of the range of the goal. There could very well be goalies, if the goals are wide enough. Offensive bots could either try to be powerhouses and move defense out of the way (us in 2013...) or agile and try to move around the defense, with something like a lightweight mecanum drive.

Some rules would be you can't have the ball touching your robot more than X inches off the ground for N seconds or more, shooting from beyond half-court is extra points, human players can inbound C amount of balls at a time, robots can only possess or control Z number of balls or less at a time, etc.

I think the strategy involved in beating an alliance would be a VAST improvement over 2015.

[RobLikesRobots]

being that superbowl 50 is next year, I wouldn't be surprised.

Come on now, don't tell me I'm the only one that predicted that this year's game would be football, named "FIRST Down"!

I approve of your name choice!

[Canon reeves]

I could see a football game that didn't allow the kind of manipulation we would expect. As previously mentioned, football launchers already exist, and could be easily mimicked. However kicking a football into a goal or goal post would be harder to mimic, and be kinda interesting, especially if teams had to be so close to shoot, and the end game was climbing the goal post.

I get a feeling that they will shoot for a spectator sport game filled with contact, but I have no doubt there will be plenty of game pieces to manipulate. Maybe a really interesting terrain with shooting footballs into small goals, and the equivalent of a high goal being a very small opening.

[fargus111111111]

I think it would be cool to have a football game where throwing and catching gained extra points but interception was not allowed, like 2014, and the farther the two robots were from each other, the greater the bonus, how this would be measured I am not sure but maybe have several lines in the field, aka yard lines. There would be a rule that would prohibit using wheels to shoot the football, making the shooter design far more interesting. The footballs, with this rule, would be full size foam because my team and I'm sure others have shot many of those little footballs, with relative accuracy, out of our t-shirt shooter. Some of the balls would start on the field while others would start in the human player station. A hole would be provided for the balls to be entered through and human players could only attempt to score during autonomous. The final "goal" for the balls would be like a field goal, between two uprights. The field goal would also provide the end game. Robots could not touch the single pole that supported the two sides. Simply hanging from the cross member would score, say ten points, while managing to climb the sides would score more depending on the final distance from the floor to the robot. And to make this a little harder, robots could only touch two "zones" at a time, meaning that they could not reach from the floor to the side pole, they must hang from the cross member first. Despite some comments on this thread, I think that american football could be adjusted to a robot game. I would love to see the return of the endgame and robot to robot interference and cooperation. While this is a cool idea we must keep in mind that next year is an important year for FIRST. It is the end of the single champs era and it is their 25th year. They are sure to do a FIRST themed game similar to what they did back in 2011.

[MoistRobot]

No football! Skee ball! With bowling balls! Fun!

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

If FRC goes baseball, I'd assume the game would be played with wiffle balls.
PS: I'd love to see a deviation from the normal rectangle field to a diamond shape!

That said, GDC likes to remain unpredictable. As much as my intuition tells me 2016 will be a ball year (and I'm preparing my design students accordingly), I wouldn't be surprised if they throw something completely random at us out of left field.

[allgoodthehood]

I may be slightly biased being I am from Minnesota, but I think a hockey oriented game would be very interesting to see and play.

[Jacob Bendicksen]

I wouldn't be surprised if they throw something completely random at us out of left field.

I see what you did there...:rolleyes: