Fantasy Product's-what u wish was made

[Munchskull]

So I have come to points in my time in first where I will encounter a problem that certain slight variations would fix. My question for you is what product do you wish that Andymark, Vex pro, Cross The Road Electronic, ect, would make to assist teams.

My two products that I would love to see are Banebot gear box adapters that could use Bag Motors because many teams have a number of both banebot gearboxs and Bag motors and I sure know I could like to use both together.

Second is a variation of the traditional CIM motor that had a small back shaft and mounting points. This is because encoder mounting is sometimes a pain. With the right encoders we could just stick the one the back of CIM motors and be finshed.

[AdamHeard]

3/8 bearing rounded shaft with a .191 hole.

[asid61]

3/8" hex bore versahubs. I ask for this every time lol.
3/8" hex bore sprockets and timing pulleys.
Pre-lightened gears (the 32p ones from WCP would be be useful if they were lighter).

3/8 bearing rounded shaft with a .191 hole.

What would you use that for? Elevator?

[AdamHeard]

3/8" hex bore versahubs. I ask for this every time lol.
3/8" hex bore sprockets and timing pulleys.
Pre-lightened gears (the 32p ones from WCP would be be useful if they were lighter).



What would you use that for? Elevator?

Axles and standoffs. Pretty much everywhere.

[josesantos]

....

What would you use that for? Elevator?

Most likely. I suppose for lower-load applications you could make 10-32 dead axle gearboxes, axles, etc.?

[BJT]

90 degree gearbox the size of a versaplanetary, 3/8 hex output.

[AdamHeard]

Most likely. I suppose for lower-load applications you could make 10-32 dead axle gearboxes, axles, etc.?

As well as high load applications.

[Andrey K.]

A good COTS brake solution. Perhaps one from VEX that would interface with their versaplanetary system. This would have saved our team a lot of time and resources this past season.

[EricH]

You know... Y'all are learning engineering. I'm aware that AM at least will take design ideas from teams (they've done it in the past).

So... You want something to be a COTS offering, how about you make a prototype, do a bit of market research, and see about making a deal with the appropriate company?

Just a thought.


One final item: Back in my day, we didn't have these newfangled 3-CIM gearboxes! All we had was drill motors, with drill gearboxes! Had ta make 'em shifting ourselves! COTS parts? HA! Had to build the entire robot, 'cept the KOP! More than 2 CIMS? HA! We was lucky to get that! You young whippersnappers have everything handed to you! Ya wouldn't last 2 days if you had to build all this stuff yourself! Incidentally, there's some truth to that... 4 CIMs weren't an option until my third year on a team.

[jwfoss]

3/8 bearing rounded shaft with a .191 hole.

Yes please. And while were at it, I'd enjoy Colson wheels with integrated sprocket bolt pattern and a 1.125" through hole.

[Brandon Holley]

3/8 bearing rounded shaft with a .191 hole.

Consider this a gigantic second to the above suggestion. Given the choice I would prefer a 0.159" hole option over a 0.191" only because I can easily open the hole up if I need that variety. However, BOTH would be absolutely amazing to have.

The time savings for us if we had this variety of shaft would be unreal. Making standoffs is one of the last full blown manual operations we have to do each year.

-Brando

[IronicDeadBird]

Captive Ball omnis that can lock and unlock.

[mman1506]

An incremental encoder "stage" for a VersaPlanetary that is linked directly to the output shaft.

[JesseK]

3/8" hex bore versahubs. I ask for this every time lol.

AndyMark makes a 3/8" hex hub. It isn't as thin as a versahub, but shortening it is trivially simply on a lathe (plus you're left with a 3/8" hex ID, 1" OD billet which has some utility in unexpected places).

I'd love the new shaft ideas, both 0.159 & 0.191 holes. Our #7 bit is so overworked...

[Monochron]

An incremental encoder "stage" for a VersaPlanetary that is linked directly to the output shaft.

I was talking to a 900 mentor about this idea this season. Honestly I think one of the biggest barriers to team's using encoders is the mechanical mounting and something so simple to integrate like this would be huge.

[Munchskull]

I was talking to a 900 mentor about this idea this season. Honestly I think one of the biggest barriers to team's using encoders is the mechanical mounting and something so simple to integrate like this would be huge.

More encoder mounting for all motors.

[Pault]

An incremental encoder "stage" for a VersaPlanetary that is linked directly to the output shaft.

Step 1: Drill a 1/4in hole 3/4in deep into the center of the output shaft

Step 2: Use a hacksaw to cut down the center of the shaft to the same depth as the hole.

Step 3: Assemble VersaPlanetary and mount onto robot.

Step 3: Put a 1/2in hex shaft collar around the end of the shaft.

Step 4: Cut a piece of thin polycarb and drill a 3/8in hole near one end.

Step 5: Use a nut to screw an incremental encoder (http://www.grayhill.com/assets/1/7/Opt_Encoder_63R.pdf), absolute encoder (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2899.htm), single turn potentiometer*, or 10 turn potentiometer (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2619.htm) into the hole in the polycarb.

Step 6: Insert shaft of sensor into hole in the output shaft.

Step 7: Tighten shaft collar.

Step 8: Attach the loose end of the polycarb to any nearby piece of the robot.

We did this on 9 out of 11 of the VersaPlanetaries on our robot. It was so simple, and just worked. Should accomplish what you want fairly well.

*I don't have the link for where we bought these, but I doubt it would be difficult to find them with the right shaft size.

[2544HCRC]

Richer variety of cheap Aluminum pressed gears and sprockets. The AndyMark hex gears and sprockets are a bargain but I wish there was just more of a variety in size. Also a set of right angle gears that one could build a gearbox around. Also adapter gears for the shafts of many of the First motors.

A more inexpensive pneumatics valve for FIRST applications along with a compressor that delivered a slightly larger cfm in a similar sized package (Its MY wishlist).

[Kevin Ray]

One final item: Back in my day, we didn't have these newfangled 3-CIM gearboxes! All we had was drill motors, with drill gearboxes! Had ta make 'em shifting ourselves! COTS parts? HA! Had to build the entire robot, 'cept the KOP! More than 2 CIMS? HA! We was lucky to get that! You young whippersnappers have everything handed to you! Ya wouldn't last 2 days if you had to build all this stuff yourself! Incidentally, there's some truth to that... 4 CIMs weren't an option until my third year on a team.

Man! Now THOSE were the days... We'd spend 2-3 weeks just getting the drive train to work.

Now, so as to not hijack this thread, I'd like to have a set of hole cutters like these: http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/98332570 but 5 thou undersized so that we could press fit bearings into the hole.

[RoboChair]

Man! Now THOSE were the days... We'd spend 2-3 weeks just getting the drive train to work.

Now, so as to not hijack this thread, I'd like to have a set of hole cutters like these: http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/98332570 but 5 thou undersized so that we could press fit bearings into the hole.

Toolpost Grinder? I recently ran into an issue tapping a 1/4-20 hole, had to tap past the shoulder and had no reduced shank tap. Put my tap in the Bridgeport spindle and a Die Grinder in the vise and reduced the shank in about 15 minutes.
Good times.

[Munchskull]

How about a servo version of the CIM everyone would love that.

[marshall]

Step 1: Drill a 1/4in hole 3/4in deep into the center of the output shaft

Step 2: Use a hacksaw to cut down the center of the shaft to the same depth as the hole.

Step 3: Assemble VersaPlanetary and mount onto robot.

Step 3: Put a 1/2in hex shaft collar around the end of the shaft.

Step 4: Cut a piece of thin polycarb and drill a 3/8in hole near one end.

Step 5: Use a nut to screw an incremental encoder (http://www.grayhill.com/assets/1/7/Opt_Encoder_63R.pdf), absolute encoder (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2899.htm), single turn potentiometer*, or 10 turn potentiometer (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2619.htm) into the hole in the polycarb.

Step 6: Insert shaft of sensor into hole in the output shaft.

Step 7: Tighten shaft collar.

Step 8: Attach the loose end of the polycarb to any nearby piece of the robot.

We did this on 9 out of 11 of the VersaPlanetaries on our robot. It was so simple, and just worked. Should accomplish what you want fairly well.

*I don't have the link for where we bought these, but I doubt it would be difficult to find them with the right shaft size.

Can you provide pictures for this?

Personally, I'd rather see more integrated options made available to teams than us using the same old hacks to make our existing solutions work. Yes, they work, but they aren't pretty. I think I have a good idea of what you are describing and the encoder/sensor being exposed is still the biggest problem for longevity (read: durability).

[Jared]

Double 25 sprockets, 3mm pitch belts/pulleys with 3/8" hex and press fit for common FRC motor shafts, steel on brass worm gearbox, and half inch hex sleeve.

Some sort of simple system for large diameter hollow tube axles/bearing for arm joints.

[ajlapp]

Double 25 sprockets exist...in one tooth size at least. :)

http://www.team221.com/viewproduct.php?id=132

[Scott Kozutsky]

I'd like to see vex or AM make sprockets compatible with bike chain.

It's really strong, more resistant to misalignment, more readily available, has much better breaking/joining tools and is lighter than 35 chain per linear distance. There are also a few existing mechanisms that could potentially be pulled from bikes for it.

[Electronica1]

How about a 2 inch colson wheel with hex hub (I know it is a tad random, but would help with my teams octocanum)

Plus, on the more unrealistic side:
locking mecanum wheels
A disk brake stage that stacks with other gearboxes that have a hex output shaft

[Mike Marandola]

I'd like to see vex or AM make sprockets compatible with bike chain.

It's really strong, more resistant to misalignment, more readily available, has much better breaking/joining tools and is lighter than 35 chain per linear distance. There are also a few existing mechanisms that could potentially be pulled from bikes for it.

Why not buy them from Mcmaster? Bike chain is ANSI #40 and 1/2" pitch right?

[Munchskull]

A disk brake stage that stacks with other gearboxes that have a hex output shaft

That is not unrealistic at all. I would love a modular hex disk break.

[Scott Kozutsky]

Why not buy them from Mcmaster? Bike chain is ANSI #40 and 1/2" pitch right?

Not compatible with existing wheels (versapattern/1.875 hexagonal bolt pattern) and no cheap hex options. Additionally, #40 chain is physically thicker than bike chain making the sprockets incompatible.


That is not unrealistic at all. I would love a modular hex disk break.

I've seen teams mount disks to the 1.875 hole pattern adapters so that's a pretty good starting point. It's a pretty simple thing to execute and is not necessary for most games so it would be too specialized IMO.

It would also be cool to see versablocks to mount to standard lumber sizes to make prototype and otherwise cheap robots easier.

[Mike Marandola]

Not compatible with existing wheels (versapattern/1.875 hexagonal bolt pattern) and no cheap hex options. Additionally, #40 chain is physically thicker than bike chain making the sprockets incompatible.

Ahh, I am not very familiar with bikes. I never knew there were various bike chain roller widths. Neat!

[DampRobot]

You know... Y'all are learning engineering. I'm aware that AM at least will take design ideas from teams (they've done it in the past).

So... You want something to be a COTS offering, how about you make a prototype, do a bit of market research, and see about making a deal with the appropriate company?

Just a thought.

I've talked with some people that did this and actually got their product to market. I know that they learned an absolute ton, and enjoyed the experience of developing the product, but from a financial perspective really got screwed over by the company they were working with. It sounded like a learning experience, both in design and business skills.

To people commenting on this thread, if you really want something, go ahead and design a product that's suitable for mass mfg (injection molding, extrusion, minimum mill passes, etc), estimate how much it might cost, and see if there's any money to be made. If there is, draw up a solid business plan (why teams need it, how much it will cost, how much investment it will take, how much money there is to be made, etc), and talk to people. If it really will make them money, businesses will sometimes listen.

[Monochron]

Step 1: Drill a 1/4in hole 3/4in deep into the center of the output shaft

Step 2: Use a hacksaw to cut down the center of the shaft to the same depth as the hole.

Step 3: Assemble VersaPlanetary and mount onto robot.

Step 3: Put a 1/2in hex shaft collar around the end of the shaft.

Step 4: Cut a piece of thin polycarb and drill a 3/8in hole near one end.

Step 5: Use a nut to screw an incremental encoder (http://www.grayhill.com/assets/1/7/Opt_Encoder_63R.pdf), absolute encoder (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2899.htm), single turn potentiometer*, or 10 turn potentiometer (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2619.htm) into the hole in the polycarb.

Step 6: Insert shaft of sensor into hole in the output shaft.

Step 7: Tighten shaft collar.

Step 8: Attach the loose end of the polycarb to any nearby piece of the robot.

Step 1: Assemble VersaPlanetary with "VersaEncoder Stage" and mount on robot.

Done.



This also has the benefit of not requiring a male style encoder as in your method. The downside is, I imagine you would be stuck with whatever kind of encoder Vex wanted to use.

[Everett33]

Can you provide pictures for this?

Personally, I'd rather see more integrated options made available to teams than us using the same old hacks to make our existing solutions work. Yes, they work, but they aren't pretty. I think I have a good idea of what you are describing and the encoder/sensor being exposed is still the biggest problem for longevity (read: durability).

Here is a photo of a very clean example of mounting an encoder in this manner. You are basically using the end of the shaft as a collet. Very ingenious and easy to do with the simplest of tools.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/josephschaar/17173188361/in/album-72157649689515713/

- Everett

[nuclearnerd]

Here's a new one: Hardware to make 1" tube an FRC "standard" for drive shafts.

Currently 1/2" hex bar is very popular for torque carrying shafts because it's common to many FRC parts. Unfortunately, you quickly find that 1/2" 7075 aluminum is pretty flimsy if you overhang the load by more than an inch or so, or if the angle of twist is important. A 1" OD x 1/16" wall aluminum tube is easy to source, about the same weight as 1/2" hex, 2.5 times as stiff in bending and torsion, fits through a 1.125" bore wheel*. Thicker tube can be used for even higher stiffness and strength. There are also plenty of lightweight pillowblock bearings (http://www.igus.com/wpck/3766/igubal_Stehlager?C=US) available for 1" shafts.

If someone made a two piece hub that clamped tightly enough on a 1" tube to transfer torque, and had a 1/2" hex bore and/or a versahub/AM bolt pattern, it would enable teams to use 1" tubes for drive shafts where the loads would twist 1/2" hex bar (dual chain lifts, four bar linkages, roller intakes etc).

...and go.

*Vex Wheels anyway. AM HiGrip wheels are actually 0.96" bore at their smallest, so they wouldn't work on the shaft without modification

[marshall]

Here's a new one: Hardware to make 1" tube an FRC "standard" for drive shafts.

Currently 1/2" hex bar is very popular for torque carrying shafts because it's common to many FRC parts. Unfortunately, you quickly find that 1/2" 7075 aluminum is pretty flimsy if you overhang the load by more than an inch or so, or if the angle of twist is important. A 1" OD x 1/16" wall aluminum tube is easy to source, about the same weight as 1/2" hex, 2.5 times as stiff in bending and torsion, fits through a 1.125" bore wheel*. Thicker tube can be used for even higher stiffness and strength. There are also plenty of lightweight pillowblock bearings (http://www.igus.com/wpck/3766/igubal_Stehlager?C=US) available for 1" shafts.

If someone made a two piece hub that clamped tightly enough on a 1" tube to transfer torque, and had a 1/2" hex bore and/or a versahub/AM bolt pattern, it would enable teams to use 1" tubes for drive shafts where the loads would twist 1/2" hex bar (dual chain lifts, four bar linkages, roller intakes etc).

...and go.

*Vex Wheels anyway. AM HiGrip wheels are actually 0.96" bore at their smallest, so they wouldn't work on the shaft without modification

As a team that does absolutely terrible things to gearboxes and output shafts with overhung loags, we would totally buy these and likely in large quantities.

[Lil' Lavery]

The same thing I've answered on surveys the past couple years: cycloidal gearboxes. Would be the biggest game changer in FRC design since COTS planetaries became common.

Also, more support for keyed round shaft. The constant shortage of hex bearings and not having a hex broach can be quite a pain. We do just fine with keyed shaft, but more and more new products come with hex output shafts.

[thatprogrammer]

1. A thunderhex with a standarized hub size, as well as bearings with proper mounting plates.

2. A gearbox with a modular case of some sort.

3. A special versaframe optimized for belt or chain in tube drive systems.

[Munchskull]

I've talked with some people that did this and actually got their product to market. I know that they learned an absolute ton, and enjoyed the experience of developing the product, but from a financial perspective really got screwed over by the company they were working with. It sounded like a learning experience, both in design and business skills.

To people commenting on this thread, if you really want something, go ahead and design a product that's suitable for mass mfg (injection molding, extrusion, minimum mill passes, etc), estimate how much it might cost, and see if there's any money to be made. If there is, draw up a solid business plan (why teams need it, how much it will cost, how much investment it will take, how much money there is to be made, etc), and talk to people. If it really will make them money, businesses will sometimes listen.

I know that my team actually did develop a product that we would he loved to market how ever we got stuck in case manufacturering. Now that we have cnc we can finally look in to reviving the project.

It was something we called a supertester. An electrical testing device we designed. I know we sold one kit in the past to 971.