View Full Version : BattleBots Return - And They're Powered by VEXpro!
Grant Cox
17-06-2015, 18:10
http://content.vexrobotics.com/images/battlebots2015-440px.png (http://content.vexrobotics.com/images/battlebots2015.jpg)
Bob Mimlitch III (IFI Co-Founder and Chief Technology Officer), Tony Norman (IFI Co-Founder and CEO), Paul Copioli (President of VEX Robotics)
If you haven't heard, BattleBots is back (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v05Eu6NicaI)! Believe it or not, BattleBots has played an exciting role in the history of VEX and our parent company, Innovation First International. In anticipation of the season premiere this Sunday, we thought we would share some of this history with the Chief Delphi community.
When the Victor 883 was introduced back in 1999, it was the first motor speed controller developed specifically for use in the growing competitive robotics world. FRC teams reaped the benefits of smaller size/weight and increased current capacity; it revolutionized the way that their 130 lb robots were designed and controlled.
Soon, other competitive robotics enthusiasts took note of this new technology, and in the early 2000's, Victor 883 controllers even started appearing on BattleBots. In addition to continuing their development of 12V motor controllers for FRC, IFI responded to this unique new demand with higher-powered products for these massive, 340 lb machines.
A 60A / 24V version of the Victor 883
The 120A / 24V "Thor" controller, now called the "Victor 885 (http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/IFI-V885.html)"
The "Victor-HV" series at 120A / 36V and 90A / 48V
These electronics could be found in an estimated 80% of robots in the BattleBox, and IFI also provided official sponsorship to several teams (including my personal favorite combat robot, Nightmare (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OK_dwd3gwg)).
Over time, IFI Robotics progressed into VEX Robotics and the VEXpro product line, but our passion for all forms of large-scale competitive robotics has remained constant. As seen above, Bob, Tony, and Paul had the opportunity to attend a taping of the new 2015 season - we are thrilled to share that Victor 885's are still the speed controller of choice, and can be found on nearly every robot competing this year! VEX is also proud to be sponsoring three of the teams that you'll be following on TV:
Inertia Labs - Bronco
Creators of the legendary Toro (https://youtu.be/_KSGFVocp1M?t=26), winner of a BattleBots superheavyweight world championship and two Royal Rumbles
Aptyx - Bite Force
Creators of the championship-winning Barrage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFZy8iibMD0) and featured in this "Meet the Robots (https://youtu.be/GnACo3zgI5k?t=167)" video
Mutant Robots - Lockjaw
Creators of Diesector (https://youtu.be/VXY6KaIrUuQ?t=65), two-time superheavyweight champion and featured in "Meet the Robots (https://youtu.be/GnACo3zgI5k?t=527)"
Keep an eye out for Bronco, Bite Force, and Lockjaw as they enter the new BattleBox on Sundays, 9pm EST on ABC!
Michael Corsetto
17-06-2015, 18:48
Go Team Aptyx!
Now I'm kicking myself for not attending the taping last month, but I'm pumped to watch the action this Sunday!
-Mike
If you're watching this weekend you'll see three 254 mentors with Aptyx Designs' Bite Force!
(https://www.facebook.com/AptyxDesigns)
Myself and Travis were part of Paul Ventimiglia's pit crew at the event. It was a lot of fun and we're looking forward to the first episode, where they will show our qualifying match vs Warhead (https://scontent.fsjc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/11182700_669954839775892_7474259345339858826_o.jpg ), one of the most iconic battlebots from the original series.
http://i.imgur.com/NcH321E.png
FRC-Battlebot merger confirmed.
=Martin=Taylor=
17-06-2015, 21:55
Your robot reminds me of Charles Guan's Uberclocker:
http://www.etotheipiplusone.net/pics/cb2/cb2_234.jpg
waialua359
17-06-2015, 22:17
If you're watching this weekend you'll see three 254 mentors with Aptyx Designs' Bite Force!
(https://www.facebook.com/AptyxDesigns)
Myself and Travis were part of Paul Ventimiglia's pit crew at the event. It was a lot of fun and we're looking forward to the first episode, where they will show our qualifying match vs Warhead (https://scontent.fsjc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/11182700_669954839775892_7474259345339858826_o.jpg ), one of the most iconic battlebots from the original series.
Wow! Nice job!!!
Your robot reminds me of Charles Guan's Uberclocker:
way to big image
Did you know Charles has a team too: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=907874199272365&fref=ts
With a design that featured uberclocker as a spirit animal.
Billfred
17-06-2015, 22:35
As if I needed more reasons to nerd out like I was 14 again...
Can't wait to see those three go at it!
I could have swore I saw an Andymark AM14U2 chassis in their promo video.....
https://youtu.be/v05Eu6NicaI?t=55s
I could have swore I saw an Andymark AM14U2 chassis in their promo video.....
https://youtu.be/v05Eu6NicaI?t=55s
The shot you're referring to is of a team near us. It's not an AndyMark base though.
timytamy
19-06-2015, 07:50
"The uploader has not made this video available in your country."
:(
"The uploader has not made this video available in your country."
:(
This version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LahPYo1TfAY) does not appear to be region locked.
carpedav000
19-06-2015, 17:05
Definately cheering for any crusher or spinner-type robots.
waialua359
21-06-2015, 03:03
I just saw a mentor from Team 1572, the Hammerheads in the video interview, our partners at Inland Empire during Week 1.
I forget his name, but at Champs, I recall the other team members saying he couldnt attend because he was working on this upcoming Battlebots event.
I just saw a mentor from Team 1572, the Hammerheads in the video interview, our partners at Inland Empire during Week 1.
I forget his name, but at Champs, I recall the other team members saying he couldnt attend because he was working on this upcoming Battlebots event.
You're probably thinking of Donald Hutson. He (and other mentors from 1572/1266) were involved with Disesctor.
Tom Bottiglieri
21-06-2015, 04:00
Let's go team Aptyx!!!
The premiere is tonight! Very Excited!!! :ahh: :yikes: :D
Team Mutant Robots consists of 4 FRC Mentors from San Diego:
Donald Hutson (Captain) and Alex K from team 1572, The Hammerheads.
Paul Ferrell from team 4583, Robosaurus.
Jonathan Medina from team 1266, The Devil Duckies.
Michael Hill
21-06-2015, 20:58
FYI, it's about to start.
Also, will this bring in another surge of "Is it like BattleBots" when someone asks about your participation in FRC?
Akash Rastogi
21-06-2015, 21:15
FYI, it's about to start.
Also, will this bring in another surge of "Is it like BattleBots" when someone asks about your participation in FRC?
Yes, most likely. But honestly that's a good thing. Especially if it gets more people interested in building more machines like battlebots.
Akash Rastogi
21-06-2015, 21:16
Guys....Plan X has minibots.
John Retkowski
21-06-2015, 21:19
After watching icewave vs razorback it definately seems scouting is crucial. I'm a little dissapointed to see subjective stats like aggression instead of things like weight, motors, and drivetrain. I'd like to see how thats calculated. I guess thats the price of being on tv :)
After watching icewave vs razorback it definately seems scouting is crucial. I'm a little dissapointed to see subjective stats like aggression instead of things like weight, motors, and drivetrain. I'd like to see how thats calculated. I guess thats the price of being on tv :)
Yeah, those battlebots TV producers should take a few hints from FRC Scouting. I'd love to see what powers some of the spinning arms/saws and crushing devices. :)
Guys....Plan X has minibots.
And like most FRC versions, they did nothing and when tasked, they didnt do anything.
If you're watching this weekend you'll see three 254 mentors with Aptyx Designs' Bite Force!
(https://www.facebook.com/AptyxDesigns)
Myself and Travis were part of Paul Ventimiglia's pit crew at the event. It was a lot of fun and we're looking forward to the first episode, where they will show our qualifying match vs Warhead (https://scontent.fsjc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/11182700_669954839775892_7474259345339858826_o.jpg ), one of the most iconic battlebots from the original series.
What an incredible match by Bite Force. Amazing job, Team Aptyx!
Of course 254 owns Battlebots too
Nice work team Aptyx! That was awesome.
Electronica1
21-06-2015, 21:44
Of course 254 owns Battlebots too
Against the team that also built Razer (http://robotwars.wikia.com/wiki/Razer). Epic!!!
John Retkowski
21-06-2015, 21:47
You can definitely tell bite force was designed by people who know what they're doing. They didn't just build a good robot; they designed strategically and analyzed the game. And they're crushing it. (literally!)
Billfred
21-06-2015, 21:49
FYI, it's about to start.
Also, will this bring in another surge of "Is it like BattleBots" when someone asks about your participation in FRC?
The first surge never abated.
Michael Hill
21-06-2015, 21:56
The first surge never abated.
Ok, I'll give you that...but there should have been a generation gap dang it!
I'll give the first episode a solid A-.
To slightly rephrase a relevant quote : "There are those that understand BattleBots. And there are those that don't matter."
-dave
.
Team Aptyx for the win. It was mentioned earlier in the thread, but I am curious; how much scouting and robot modification actually goes on for Battle Bot competitions? The show kinda alluded to it when they were talking about Project X and her multitude of weapons, but it was never clear.
Didn't even know about the 254 mentors before I deemed Bite Force as my favorite battlebot! Still don't know why circle swerve ramp bot isn't here yet though...
Ryan Dognaux
21-06-2015, 22:56
So question to the people helping teams competing in this - how did you get selected to be on the show? I bet there are a few others that will want to compete next season (hopefully there is a next season.)
Awesome episode but a few of those robots would have benefited from the KOP chassis. Some pretty weird drive choices with a high center of gravity.
Bite Force is going to go far. The magnetic tank treads seemed to do the trick, it didn't even budge when hit.
Tom Line
21-06-2015, 23:13
Some very questionable design choices........ The commentary leaves a lot to be desired. In a car race they have a lot of commentary about the car technology. This was dumbed way down.
Abhishek R
22-06-2015, 00:16
What an incredible match by Bite Force. Amazing job, Team Aptyx!
With no lack of style in the bot design. Looks slick out there!
Lil' Lavery
22-06-2015, 00:24
I think some of the people are viewing this from a too FRC-specific mindset. A large part of Battlebots, and especially televised Battlebots, is the "cool factor." Some of the design choices may not be ideal, but they set the robot apart and made them a noteworthy machine that plays well on TV. Otherwise we'd just see a bunch of sturdy wedges and defensive spinners.
sanddrag
22-06-2015, 00:51
It took a decade of it not beong televised to get people to not associate FIRST robots with BattleBots. Looks like the association will be back on the upswing.
Nonetheless, it's pretty entertaining and it was fun to see Cory and Travis on there.
Torrance
22-06-2015, 02:05
So question to the people helping teams competing in this - how did you get selected to be on the show? I bet there are a few others that will want to compete next season (hopefully there is a next season.)
Paul told me that ABC contacted well known builders and asked them to either build a brand new bot or upgrade an old one. They didn't make it an open competition because they only started contacting people back in December 2014 and wanted to make sure that they would have tried-and-true builders who could manage to make epic robots in that time frame that would work and look cool on TV.
I'm rooting for BiteForce and Plan X. Also what did you all think of the commentators, I personally thought they were very scripted...
Jared Russell
22-06-2015, 02:14
Team Aptyx for the win. It was mentioned earlier in the thread, but I am curious; how much scouting and robot modification actually goes on for Battle Bot competitions? The show kinda alluded to it when they were talking about Project X and her multitude of weapons, but it was never clear.
Quite a bit. It is a lot like FRC...plus the weight limit is enforced only for your current configuration, so you can mix and match modular systems without any real penalty (whereas in FRC, all components must be weighed together).
Munchskull
22-06-2015, 02:51
Bit Force for the win. I just love the fact that FIRST mentors just pwned a "legend". Also some one should start a March Madness style lineup for the top 16 robots once they have the top 16.
Caleb McCune
22-06-2015, 08:43
After yesterday's episode I am super hyped for next Sunday. I also can't wait to see Whysachi's minibots get destroyed again.
Kevin Leonard
22-06-2015, 08:57
Does anyone know where I could find the full rules for building one of these?
I'd love to see both the robot rules (weight, height, power/speed limitations), as well as the "game rules" (What am I allowed to/not allowed to do in the arena, how cool does my robot need to be/how aggressive/defensive do they need to be).
I think it would be an interesting exercise mentally building a robot for this "game".
Kevin Leonard
22-06-2015, 09:01
(The rules aren't there right now.)
Does someone have the rules for this current season that the robot fighters had to abide by?
The rules are likely similar to those used by http://robogames.net/rules/combat.php (RoboGames).
Most combat events in the US, outside of Battlebots and RoboGames, use some variation of the SPARC rules and specifications.
http://sparc.tools/
Paul Copioli
22-06-2015, 11:58
Bit Force for the win. I just love the fact that FIRST mentors just pwned a "legend". Also some one should start a March Madness style lineup for the top 16 robots once they have the top 16.
OK, I have to step in here. I am not picking on you, but I want to nip this in the bud.
FIRST mentors did not pwn a legend. Paul Ventimiglia, a seasoned battle robots veteran, just pwned a legend. Look at some combat robotics results from 2009 and you will see Paul V. on top there.
I just don't want this to get out of hand with the whole "FIRST mentors who also now pwn in BB" rhetoric.
Additionally, Donald Hudson is a Battle Bots legend and now helps an FRC team in his area. He was one of the original BB champions from the original tv series. Can't wait to see his robot, Lockjaw, compete.
Jared Russell
22-06-2015, 12:28
Yes, this is Paul V.'s baby, and Paul has been doing this for a long time.
My favorite moment from the first episode:
http://giant.gfycat.com/BrownMildDouglasfirbarkbeetle.gif
EricDrost
22-06-2015, 12:38
My favorite moment from the first episode:
http://giant.gfycat.com/BrownMildDouglasfirbarkbeetle.gif
Coincidentally, that minibot moment was how I felt by the end of 2011.
OK, I have to step in here. I am not picking on you, but I want to nip this in the bud.
FIRST mentors did not pwn a legend. Paul Ventimiglia, a seasoned battle robots veteran, just pwned a legend. Look at some combat robotics results from 2009 and you will see Paul V. on top there.
It's still pretty awesome to see that three of the four people shown with Bite Force are involved in FIRST robotics.
Eugene Fang
22-06-2015, 13:02
Spotted:
http://i.imgur.com/lV9tVHel.png
Spotted:
http://i.imgur.com/lV9tVHel.png
Haha, didnt see that during the show.
Kevin Leonard
22-06-2015, 13:51
After reading quite a bit about battlebot design here (http://www.riobotz.com.br/riobotz_combot_tutorial.pdf), I'm curious what limitations there are on Battlebot action during their 3 minute matches.
Can robots climb or entangle with the field or field elements?
Could a battlebot be totally defensive? Or would that be a poor design choice due to one of the tiebreakers being "aggression"?
How large can these battlebots be when they start the match? How large can these battlebots be during the match?
How much of the robot can I change between matches? It seems that modularity is allowed, but when does removing a module become removing what mkes the robot itself?
Do the Battlebots participants get free corndogs?
If the last answer is yes, goodye FRC, hello BATTLEBOTS!
Jared Russell
22-06-2015, 13:57
Do the Battlebots participants get free corndogs?
If the last answer is yes, goodye FRC, hello BATTLEBOTS!
Not free, but a food truck with pretty decent $1 corndogs was on site.
Travis Covington
22-06-2015, 14:17
OK, I have to step in here. I am not picking on you, but I want to nip this in the bud.
FIRST mentors did not pwn a legend. Paul Ventimiglia, a seasoned battle robots veteran, just pwned a legend. Look at some combat robotics results from 2009 and you will see Paul V. on top there.
I just don't want this to get out of hand with the whole "FIRST mentors who also now pwn in BB" rhetoric.
Additionally, Donald Hudson is a Battle Bots legend and now helps an FRC team in his area. He was one of the original BB champions from the original tv series. Can't wait to see his robot, Lockjaw, compete.
Truth. This was Paul's robot. There was a group of people helping here and there (some associated with 254 ) but this was his baby.
Richard Wallace
22-06-2015, 14:22
Not free, but a food truck with pretty decent $1 corndogs was on site.I saw no corndogs at Michigan districts. Corndogs available at MSC and CMP were priced much higher than $1. IRI has excellent corn, but not corndogs, if memory serves.
FRC, are we going to let BattleBots go unchallenged in the corndog competition?
Who drove the robot? Great job whoever it was.
mman1506
22-06-2015, 15:27
I saw no corndogs at Michigan districts. Corndogs available at MSC and CMP were priced much higher than $1. IRI has excellent corn, but not corndogs, if memory serves.
FRC, are we going to let BattleBots go unchallenged in the corndog competition?
IRI had corndogs last year, albeit pretty small ones
OK, I have to step in here. I am not picking on you, but I want to nip this in the bud.
FIRST mentors did not pwn a legend. Paul Ventimiglia, a seasoned battle robots veteran, just pwned a legend. Look at some combat robotics results from 2009 and you will see Paul V. on top there.
I just don't want this to get out of hand with the whole "FIRST mentors who also now pwn in BB" rhetoric.
Additionally, Donald Hudson is a Battle Bots legend and now helps an FRC team in his area. He was one of the original BB champions from the original tv series. Can't wait to see his robot, Lockjaw, compete.
Thanks, Paul, and thanks everyone! TLDR: Battlebots is awesome.
I am not an active of a poster here on CD, but I have been an active reader behind the scenes for about 10 years :)
I was super excited for this event to ask some of my friends and fellow mentors on the Cheesy Poofs to help me with this crazy project. I could not have done it without them! Travis, Cory, Colin, Andrew, and Mani were especially crucial Poofs which enabled my team to compete; they all worked hard for long hours, on a whim, and without question. Having Cory and Travis at the event was huge, really put me at ease and able to just drive the robot, and worry less about fixing it and getting it ready after having little to no sleep for weeks.
It was great to partner with VEX Robotics, and WPI for this event. I have used IFI control products, and speed controllers, in so many winning robots over the years. There is a reason I keep using them, super reliable, and tiny well made products. It was great fun getting to see Bob/Paul/Tony out in CA and cheering us on at the event filming! I am proud to have gotten their logos out on primetime TV! I was able to convince ABC to do some filming with us as FRC mentors with the Poofs, as some back story, and hope they use some of that footage.
I love Battlebots, and FIRST. I have been building combat robots for about 15 years now, since I was 13, competed all over the country, in official Battlebots events and Robogames, others, etc. It has been a fantastic journey, and taught me almost everything I know about engineering and building robots.
Combat robots introduced me to FIRST. At WPI, the lab I was given some space in also house Team 190, and I quickly became friends with those mentors and I tried my hand at mentoring with them from 2006 and on. FIRST was huge for me, because I loved working with the mentors and students. Competitive robotics is my passion in life, eat, breathe, and sleep robot events. After moving to the west coast in 2013, I knew I had to join the Poofs!
For anyone that dislikes Battlebots, I feel bad for you, you just don't "get it." It is OK to love FIRST, and Battlebots, Robogames, and whatever other competition pops up. It is all fun, and certainly all inspiring, and all very educational. My favorite part about Battlebots? When I was 13, I was calling industrial companies, sourcing parts, creating a budget, researching how to cut metal and drill holes, learning how to organize travel and shipment of a team and robot, and what can go wrong (everything). My favorite part, is that you actually learn those things the most when the project is a small effort, a 1 person or 3 person team for example. Nobody is just "along for the ride" or "part of the team", you are the team. I think there is much to be learned from working in teams, and team projects, but even more when you go out on your own some time for something you are truly passionate about.
I am a huge advocate of having students go out and try some projects on their own, I think it is the only part missing from FIRST. I would love to see kids going out to find sponsors, design their own machines, compete, make products, anything, on their own for a personal project, as the culmination of the FRC experience. Combat robotics is just one simple area which lets people try that.
If you want to follow along and learn more about my current team, this page will be the most active: https://www.facebook.com/AptyxDesigns
Please respect that we have signed some very restricting documents, and the season is still airing on TV, so there are many things we cannot talk about. The rules and details around the event were made not public for various reasons, but I am sure more information will be available in the coming months.
-Paul Ventimiglia
Thanks, Paul, and thanks everyone! TLDR: Battlebots is awesome.
I am not an active of a poster here on CD, but I have been an active reader behind the scenes for about 10 years :)
I was super excited for this event to ask some of my friends and fellow mentors on the Cheesy Poofs to help me with this crazy project. I could not have done it without them! Travis, Cory, Colin, Andrew, and Mani were especially crucial Poofs which enabled my team to compete; they all worked hard for long hours, on a whim, and without question. Having Cory and Travis at the event was huge, really put me at ease and able to just drive the robot, and worry less about fixing it and getting it ready after having little to no sleep for weeks.
It was great to partner with VEX Robotics, and WPI for this event. I have used IFI control products, and speed controllers, in so many winning robots over the years. There is a reason I keep using them, super reliable, and tiny well made products. It was great fun getting to see Bob/Paul/Tony out in CA and cheering us on at the event filming! I am proud to have gotten their logos out on primetime TV! I was able to convince ABC to do some filming with us as FRC mentors with the Poofs, as some back story, and hope they use some of that footage.
I love Battlebots, and FIRST. I have been building combat robots for about 15 years now, since I was 13, competed all over the country, in official Battlebots events and Robogames, others, etc. It has been a fantastic journey, and taught me almost everything I know about engineering and building robots.
Combat robots introduced me to FIRST. At WPI, the lab I was given some space in also house Team 190, and I quickly became friends with those mentors and I tried my hand at mentoring with them from 2006 and on. FIRST was huge for me, because I loved working with the mentors and students. Competitive robotics is my passion in life, eat, breathe, and sleep robot events. After moving to the west coast in 2013, I knew I had to join the Poofs!
For anyone that dislikes Battlebots, I feel bad for you, you just don't "get it." It is OK to love FIRST, and Battlebots, Robogames, and whatever other competition pops up. It is all fun, and certainly all inspiring, and all very educational. My favorite part about Battlebots? When I was 13, I was calling industrial companies, sourcing parts, creating a budget, researching how to cut metal and drill holes, learning how to organize travel and shipment of a team and robot, and what can go wrong (everything). My favorite part, is that you actually learn those things the most when the project is a small effort, a 1 person or 3 person team for example. Nobody is just "along for the ride" or "part of the team", you are the team. I think there is much to be learned from working in teams, and team projects, but even more when you go out on your own some time for something you are truly passionate about.
I am a huge advocate of having students go out and try some projects on their own, I think it is the only part missing from FIRST. I would love to see kids going out to find sponsors, design their own machines, compete, make products, anything, on their own for a personal project, as the culmination of the FRC experience. Combat robotics is just one simple area which lets people try that.
If you want to follow along and learn more about my current team, this page will be the most active: https://www.facebook.com/AptyxDesigns
Please respect that we have signed some very restricting documents, and the season is still airing on TV, so there are many things we cannot talk about. The rules and details around the event were made not public for various reasons, but I am sure more information will be available in the coming months.
-Paul Ventimiglia
I saw a youtube video for Battlebots where one of the tv guys went around to each of the pits and talked to the builders. When he came to you, you said that you put magnets on your tracks to get better traction in the arena. Did you do that after you saw the arena or was that a pre-designed/pre-knowledge of the arena decision?
I saw a youtube video for Battlebots where one of the tv guys went around to each of the pits and talked to the builders. When he came to you, you said that you put magnets on your tracks to get better traction in the arena. Did you do that after you saw the arena or was that a pre-designed/pre-knowledge of the arena decision?
I have used magnets to help hold my robot to the arena floor since 2004. Many others have done this before me too, not my own original idea.
The floor of the Battlebox has always been steel, with traction paint, and Robogames etc also have steel floors.
However, the magnets in Bite Force are not adding a whole lot of additional downforce. There wasn't time to properly tune or test that, or the entire robot. The robot was only finished the night before, no driving testing on steel.
The tank treads are primarily for TV. They look cool, and people like them, that is it! For engineering purposes, they are horrible. Heavy, expensive, time consuming to make, single point of failure, etc.
But... tank treads are neat, and Battlebots is an entertaining show for the masses! I want their to be a toy made with tank treads for Happy Meals.
-Paul Ventimiglia
Lil' Lavery
22-06-2015, 17:23
For engineering purposes, they are horrible. Heavy, expensive, time consuming to make, single point of failure, etc.
https://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1rxz8oOSx1rraqwbo1_500.jpg
Brandon Holley
22-06-2015, 18:37
Yes, this is Paul V.'s baby, and Paul has been doing this for a long time.
My favorite moment from the first episode:
http://giant.gfycat.com/BrownMildDouglasfirbarkbeetle.gif
Looks like that minibot hit 88MPH. It's probably roaming around the wild west or something.
-Brando
waialua359
22-06-2015, 18:41
Additionally, Donald Hudson is a Battle Bots legend and now helps an FRC team in his area. He was one of the original BB champions from the original tv series. Can't wait to see his robot, Lockjaw, compete.
I had no idea that Donald did this before. That's awesome!
We won Inland Empire with him this season and back in 2011, we teamed up also losing in the Vegas Finals to 987 and company. Donald was pretty hyped since it was their very 1st regional win in the 11 years he's been with 1572. I just forgot his name earlier.:p
evanperryg
22-06-2015, 19:34
FRC/battlebot merger confirmed again: That's awesome... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VXY6KaIrUuQ#t=201)
Hjelstrom
23-06-2015, 03:14
Wow, Battlebots is back! That was a fantastic show. I can't wait for next Sunday!
Does anyone know where I could find the full rules for building one of these?
I'd love to see both the robot rules (weight, height, power/speed limitations), as well as the "game rules" (What am I allowed to/not allowed to do in the arena, how cool does my robot need to be/how aggressive/defensive do they need to be).
I think it would be an interesting exercise mentally building a robot for this "game".
I can add some details here from what I heard... and know from past events that seem to have carried over.
Team's were pooled mostly from existing groups of known builders that were still semi-active, groups that competed in such things as ComBots/Robogames and smaller events around the USA/world). I believe teams had to submit a video/designs for a robot/updated robot, some which are floating around on the youtubes.
Battlebots 2015 has a 250 LBS weight limit, and no weight bonuses given to walkers (like it did way back during the first few seasons of the original ie: son of whyachi). "Mini bots" are factored into weight, all "bots" are weighted together and the total weight has to be under 250lbs. As stated earlier the 250lbs is calculated on what you have sitting on the arena floor, so you can reconfigure all you want, just what you fight with is under 250lbs. (Unlike FRC the 250lbs includes batteries/etc)
The best thing about battlebots imho is that it has a very OPEN set of rules. Almost any motors/ESC/power system/building material/etc is fair game, along with no budget limitations. (I could be wrong about the new show but it seems every "battlebot" competition has been like this). Some competitions have stricter rules on weapons (places that don't have a battle cage) such as no flame throwers, no spinners/etc obviously because of the cage most of that area is pretty free for battlebots itself as far as I can tell. Also I don't know numbers but I assume there are some basic dimension rules so the bots can fit through doors and such, as well as basic safety guides (IE no firearms/bombs/EMP/radio jammers/etc).
Matches are 3 minutes, if any robot is disabled within the 3 minutes (ie cannot move) the other robot wins. If both robots are still functional the panel of judges decides who is the winner of the match based on number of hits, severity ofs the hits, who dominated etc. And I believe there's a button where you can forfeit the match if it's going that badly for you.
Now I know a lot of people seem to be bashing certain robot(s); not all builders are driven with the main goal of building the most engineery/techy solid killer robot possible. Some people build them for fun and express creative designs and weird fun things often just for TV, sure they don't do as well as the hardcore battlebots but that's not the point. Sometimes a design just doesn't work out, happens all the time, often time/season(s) builders iterate just like in FRC! I don't want to speak for anyone but aftering seeing some of the posts on reddit/fb/etc I felt like mentioning something along these things here.
I have followed all the "battlebots" alike competitions (battlebots, robotwars, robotica, combots, robowars) since I was a little kid, and am glad to see it back. And pretty happy with how it went, sure there was some TV fluff and drama added in but some great flights as well. All of just just reminds me I need to go finish designing my 30lber- for the competitions around me...........
PS: Most of the teams have pages on FB if you wanna see more photos/etc hit them up since as the show is now on air some NDA restrictions have lifted.
Munchskull
23-06-2015, 10:43
OK, I have to step in here. I am not picking on you, but I want to nip this in the bud.
FIRST mentors did not pwn a legend. Paul Ventimiglia, a seasoned battle robots veteran, just pwned a legend. Look at some combat robotics results from 2009 and you will see Paul V. on top there.
I just don't want this to get out of hand with the whole "FIRST mentors who also now pwn in BB" rhetoric.
Additionally, Donald Hudson is a Battle Bots legend and now helps an FRC team in his area. He was one of the original BB champions from the original tv series. Can't wait to see his robot, Lockjaw, compete.
Thank you for correcting me on this. I appreciate that people on CD are always willing to help correct misinfomation.
I would like to add that it is always cool to know about all the FIRST associations that people have in these engineering competitions.
carpedav000
23-06-2015, 12:40
Do you think (assuming there are future seasons) that BattleBots will ever become an open competition?
Also: Definitely cheering for Capt. Shredderator next week!
Do you think (assuming there are future seasons) that BattleBots will ever become an open competition?I just found out that I'm working alongside a competitor from the previous seasons.
He built No Tolerance 3 (and 2, and 1).
See time 14:30 and time 20:30 in this video No_Tolerance_vs_Toe_Crusher (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brXYqE7wkzs)
He said that he was planning to go watch, and found out that the entry fee was not much more than the cost of a spectator ticket, so he quickly whipped together his first robot using IFI (now VEX) and Black & Decker parts, and headed west (I remember being young, employed & single ... those were the days).
If the past is prologue, and if the show lasts more than one season, the producers might have casting calls.
My colleague's robot was purposefully built to be both eye candy, and have some chance at winning. He echoed the previously posted comments that the show is about good TV as much or more than it is about good/effective robots.
Build a robot. Make a demo video. Have someone get it in front of the right person, and maybe you will get invited next season...?
Blake
Do you think (assuming there are future seasons) that BattleBots will ever become an open competition?
Yes, I do think that for sure. Every single other Battlebots event has been open since the beginning.
This one was simply unique because they had so little time from announcing, and couldn't firm up details with the network deal. Additionally, they wanted to work with people they knew would have functional robots to make the filming a success for the pilot episodes, and not risk first timers showing up with non-functional, or non-exciting robots.
-Paul Ventimiglia
Best robot there was Ice Wave, there's not really any way to beat it... The mower blade is awesome.
Brian Selle
25-06-2015, 12:52
Best robot there was Ice Wave, there's not really any way to beat it... The mower blade is awesome.
I flipper extension may do the trick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVsQoM-i4mw
Ryan Dognaux
25-06-2015, 13:08
Best robot there was Ice Wave, there's not really any way to beat it... The mower blade is awesome.
Get to it before it can fully spin up to speed and never let it spin back up. Constant contact could beat it.
carpedav000
25-06-2015, 13:09
Best robot there was Ice Wave, there's not really any way to beat it... The mower blade is awesome.
If you drive fast enough before the blade spins up, you can drive up the ramp on the front and (potentially) knock the engine out (or off).
I think the most likely to take out IceWave is either Witch Doctor and Shaman, Bite Force, or LockJaw
Lil' Lavery
25-06-2015, 13:19
IceWave was on fire by the end of its match, remember?
Spinners frequently do similar amounts of damage to themselves as the opponents. This is especially true after multiple previous matches have already put a toll on them.
Spinners can and do lose. I don't think IceWave is the favorite. It's not even the best spinner (IMO). That would be Tombstone.
carpedav000
25-06-2015, 13:31
That would be Tombstone.
Nah, Capt. Shrederator.
Lil' Lavery
25-06-2015, 13:44
Nah, Capt. Shrederator.
Unless they made it much larger for the ABC show (250 lb weight limit), Tombstone has a big weight advantage on Capt Shrederator.
carpedav000
25-06-2015, 13:57
Unless they made it much larger for the ABC show (250 lb weight limit), Tombstone has a big weight advantage on Capt Shrederator.
There was already a 250lb version (Shrederator Supreme). Wouldnt be surprised if they were using that. Even if they aren't, I still think Captain is better because they dont have to face a certain way to attack, so if their drive gives out they just become an increadibly dangerous navigational hazard.
Kevin Sheridan
25-06-2015, 14:20
There was already a 250lb version (Shrederator Supreme). Wouldnt be surprised if they were using that. Even if they aren't, I still think Captain is better because they dont have to face a certain way to attack, so if their drive gives out they just become an increadibly dangerous navigational hazard.
Shrederator just isn't that good anymore. Last Rites/Tombstone is a much more destructive robot and is probably the premier modern spinner bot. Here are some recent videos of the two robots against the same opponent Polar Vortex where Sherederator fails to do any damage and gets man handled while Last Rites destroys Polar Vortex
Polar Vortex vs Shrederator (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc17OaCZFGI)
Polar Vortex vs Last Rites (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYkg5jVoBuA)
Icewave does have an advantage over Last Rites, because Icewave's spinning blade covers all edges and faces of the robot, giving it defense on all sides. However, Last Rites' blade only covers the front half of the robot, and because of this, the other half can be easily accessed by a wedge or flipper.
Lil' Lavery
25-06-2015, 17:01
Icewave does have an advantage over Last Rites, because Icewave's spinning blade covers all edges and faces of the robot, giving it defense on all sides. However, Last Rites' blade only covers the front half of the robot, and because of this, the other half can be easily accessed by a wedge or flipper.
Conversely, Tombstone/Last Rights has the advantage of being able to drive after being flipped. ICEWave would require knocking itself back upright using its spinning blade.
Ichlieberoboter
25-06-2015, 17:22
I'm a HUGE fan of bite force. Their match against warhead was AMAZING! Granted they could have a bit more offense, but they're going to be hard to beat for sure.
carpedav000
25-06-2015, 18:06
I'd say Death and Taxes (or Witch Doctor and Shaman) is another very good bot that could go all the way
Lil' Lavery
28-06-2015, 22:32
Nah, Capt. Shrederator.
You were saying? ;)
Zebra_Fact_Man
28-06-2015, 22:38
Anyone else not super happy about how they handled Ep. 2?
I mean, I'll take some super-awesome killing robots to no super-awesome killing robots any day, but if you can't fit all 8 matches into 1 episode, why not split it up more evenly to accommodate (6-6 or 5-7), or better yet, just tack on another episode (entirely up to the broadcaster abc; I totally get it if their hands were tied to 6 episodes)?
But to montage through 1/3 of the round and then spend almost 10 minutes on a cheat/no-cheat net? meh.
I'm not complaining; I get to watch super-awesome killing robots, which is more than I could say for the past 12 years. At least that won't happen in the Round of 16.
3/4 bots that got the wildcard spots didnt deserve them. Other than the Tombstone fight, this episode was really lackluster.
Electronica1
28-06-2015, 22:40
Going to be honest, I saw the net coming. But that is because I had just watched this (https://youtu.be/FQaWpj0zySo?t=2m41s) a few days ago.
BBray_T1296
28-06-2015, 22:58
For months my favorite robots coming into this competition are Last Rites (Renamed Tombstone) and Sewer Snake (IDK what its new name is but it is the one in tonight's episode during the montage with the yellow wheels)
Michael Hill
28-06-2015, 22:59
Anyone else not super happy about how they handled Ep. 2?
I mean, I'll take some super-awesome killing robots to no super-awesome killing robots any day, but if you can't fit all 8 matches into 1 episode, why not split it up more evenly to accommodate (6-6 or 5-7), or better yet, just tack on another episode (entirely up to the broadcaster abc; I totally get it if their hands were tied to 6 episodes)?
But to montage through 1/3 of the round and then spend almost 10 minutes on a cheat/no-cheat net? meh.
I'm not complaining; I get to watch super-awesome killing robots, which is more than I could say for the past 12 years. At least that won't happen in the Round of 16.
Pretty annoyed they replayed the net match. If it's not in the rules, it's not in the rules...then again, they've never released the rules to the public (terrible idea, btw). I don't really see this show staying on the air very long. There's no real analysis or commentary. It's all so...shallow "Oh, these robots are SO DIFFERENT!". I guess that's what you get when none of the commentators have any technical experience.
BBray_T1296
28-06-2015, 23:02
Pretty annoyed they replayed the net match. If it's not in the rules, it's not in the rules...then again, they've never released the rules to the public (terrible idea, btw). I don't really see this show staying on the air very long. There's no real analysis or commentary. It's all so...shallow "Oh, these robots are SO DIFFERENT!". I guess that's what you get when none of the commentators have any technical experience.
Not to mention the editing is really poor. As the robots collide: "Let's Show the commentators!" because they're relevant too right?
This show almost certainly is only a Summer schedule filler, but maybe it well catch lighting in a bottle.
Remember who the target audience is, and it will make sense. Don't over analyze it, just enjoy it!
Munchskull
29-06-2015, 01:33
The three strongest robots would have to be (IMHO) Lockjaw, Bite Force, and Tombstone (aka Last Rites).
Lockjaw seems to have the grappling down, and it looks like it could use its teeth (is that what they would be called?) as a wedge. I did notice that it looked like it had some trouble with flipping overhaul making me wounder about its torque, who will it flip first its self or the other bot.
Bite Force (my personal favorite) seems to be a very strong contender. To me it seems similar to Lockjaw in claw/teeth(?) design. One edge that it does have over Lockjaw is the configuration change. Bite Force's biggest weakness is its treads. As stated earlier (by the designer of Bite Force?) treads are good for show not practicality. I could see them getting destroyed leaving Bite Force immobile, assuming that they do not have any thing up their sleeve (WCD under those treads?).
Last and most certainly not least is Tombstone. Tombstone appears to be an unstoppable harbinger whose entrance into the arena is a herald of tiny bits of broken bots. Dramatics aside Tombstone does pack the strongest punch of my top three. I can see em going all the way but not with out others putting up a fight. I think that wedges could deflect the blades blows and jam its spinner is used right.
My honorable mentions have to go out to Bronco and ICEwave.
Bronco's flip will certainly pack a punch but how maneuverable is it when it comes to defending its back side? Plus with two blade bots out there how will it hod up if they go head to head.
ICEwave has a great showing and as mentioned has a 360 blade, but how strong is the the spinners engine? It did catch fire according to the show, and how will it deal with being stalled?
Chief Hedgehog
29-06-2015, 02:36
This show almost certainly is only a Summer schedule filler, but maybe it well catch lighting in a bottle.
Remember who the target audience is, and it will make sense. Don't over analyze it, just enjoy it!
I agree partially. However, the target audience should be for those that are interested in Robotics. The WWE format is a bit of a turn-off for me, but my 7- and 8-year-old boys love the robots in action!
On the same note that others have identified: it would be better if they gave real stats rather than the arbitrary ones that they give. Maybe as this gains some steam, they can evolve these given stats into some that are more reflective of the robots themselves.
It will be interesting to see if more FRC related teams become involved in future seasons. I know that my team is looking into it.
All in all - I am grateful for some Robot action during the summer! Let's keep the Neilsen ratings up there!
P.S. We are all for Bite Force in my house!
3/4 bots that got the wildcard spots didnt deserve them. Other than the Tombstone fight, this episode was really lackluster.
There's a reason 4 matches were shown as highlights... Because you weren't missing much by not seeing the entire match.
Going to be honest, I saw the net coming. But that is because I had just watched this (https://youtu.be/FQaWpj0zySo?t=2m41s) a few days ago.
I actually thought it would just be a box full of a bunch of cardboard that would act as an energy absorber. IE, it would take a lot of damage, but slow down the spinner enough that it would not cause real significant damage. and allow the other robt to push it around.
As much as I hate the net It was a pretty interesting concept that worked but was against the rules (kinda).
vrcprogrammer
29-06-2015, 10:35
As much as I hate the net It was a pretty interesting concept that worked but was against the rules (kinda).
If it is true that entanglement was not against the rules (which would be a huge mistake), then it was wrong to replay the match based on "historic rules." It wasn't the most crowd pleasing idea, but neither was refusing the hand shake. I didn't like it, but it was thinking outside of the box.
Rosiebotboss
29-06-2015, 11:22
If it is true that entanglement was not against the rules (which would be a huge mistake), then it was wrong to replay the match based on "historic rules." It wasn't the most crowd pleasing idea, but neither was refusing the hand shake. I didn't like it, but it was thinking outside of the box.
The LRI in me wants toread the rule.
Caleb Sykes
29-06-2015, 11:49
If it is true that entanglement was not against the rules (which would be a huge mistake), then it was wrong to replay the match based on "historic rules." It wasn't the most crowd pleasing idea, but neither was refusing the hand shake. I didn't like it, but it was thinking outside of the box.
Agreed, so far all I have learned about the rules of this competition is that the rules don't really matter.
msaunders
29-06-2015, 12:03
Was a bit surprised, my wife (who is not into FIRST at all) sat there and watched the whole show. She seemed to enjoy it and thought the net was a unique idea though was a bit puzzled with the ruling of historical rules. Will have to see if she returns next week.
She was wondering how the judges did their evaluation.
I know some of it was broadly mentioned in the first episode.
I was expecting to see only a small set of matches like the first episode, appeared some of this weeks matches did not last long enough or were not exciting enough.
Necroterra
29-06-2015, 12:07
On the battlebots subreddit, a member of Team Mohawk said the following when asked about the entanglement:
It was one of those situations where entanglement weapons were included into an "...etc" section of the rules. "No fishing lines, ball bearings, etc..."
Now, in my (and I think most people's) opinion, a net is clearly within that etc. but I understand the argument that it isn't. The real mistake CC made was not clearing it with a judge first (perhaps they went and asked a producer who said "sure! sounds exciting" without really caring about the rules), and I think resetting the match was the correct move. It's unfortunate that the match went poorly for both bots after the reset.
As a side note, would some sort of thick foam work to catch a horizontal spinner? It wouldn't be entanglement, per say, but rather absorbing all the kinetic energy...
As a side note, would some sort of thick foam work to catch a horizontal spinner? It wouldn't be entanglement, per say, but rather absorbing all the kinetic energy...While the foam is deccelerating the spinning blade, the will be plenty of equal and opposite reactions going on that will affect both robots.
Also, in general, anything that does a lot of deccelerating in a short distance starts to be more like tire rubber, or loops of steel cable, than it is like foam.
I think I would prefer trying a mixture of sloped armor, mechanisms that would anchor me to the floor when struck, and/or actively grabbing the spinner while it is slow after a hit.
carpedav000
29-06-2015, 12:40
I actually thought it would just be a box full of a bunch of cardboard that would act as an energy absorber. IE, it would take a lot of damage, but slow down the spinner enough that it would not cause real significant damage. and allow the other robt to push it around.
I thought we were gonna see a minibot drive through the box at the beginning of the fight.
I agree partially. However, the target audience should be for those that are interested in Robotics.Why? (That's a rhetorical question).
Do the potential viewers who are interested in Robotics spend more money on advertised products than other viewers do?
Or to look at it another way, doesn't ABC already have your eyeballs using the existing format? It makes perfect sense for them to try to attract as many other consumer eyeballs as they can, and for them to push the format as far in those other directions as they are able, without losing your eyes.
Ideally the target audience should be people NOT interested in robotics.Again a rhetorical "Why?"
STEM inspiration advocates would certainly agree; but according to ABC, I'll bet the target audience should include whoever they can attract (more than once if possible) that has the most disposable income burning a hole in their pocket.
ABC isn't PBS.
Is ABC an important example of "changing the culture"?
Discuss...
AdamHeard
29-06-2015, 12:58
I agree partially. However, the target audience should be for those that are interested in Robotics. The WWE format is a bit of a turn-off for me, but my 7- and 8-year-old boys love the robots in action!
Ideally the target audience should be people NOT interested in robotics.
The show is awesome, and I hope my team gets a chance to compete next season.
Amanda Morrison
29-06-2015, 13:12
I don't really see this show staying on the air very long. There's no real analysis or commentary. It's all so...shallow "Oh, these robots are SO DIFFERENT!". I guess that's what you get when none of the commentators have any technical experience.
Actually, Battlebots has debuted to strong ratings (http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/celebrity-family-feud-battlebots-premiere-ratings-1201525039/) against its competitor networks (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/programming/primetime-ratings-abc-s-celebrity-family-feud-battlebots-premiere-strong/141927) and has had some pretty (http://www.fastcompany.com/3047032/at-the-intersection-of-design-and-destruction-abc-re-ignites-battlebots-with-creative-combat) great reviews (http://observer.com/2015/06/battlebots-the-show-where-robots-kill-each-other-is-absurd-and-amazing/) thus far (http://theyoungfolks.com/television/back-to-the-box-a-back-and-forth-on-the-return-of-battlebots/58413). I liked this article best, personally (http://killscreendaily.com/articles/new-battlebots-harder-better-faster-and-finally-all-grown/).
My opinion appears to differ sharply from yours. I'm no engineer but have worked for companies in robotics education, production, or engineering consulting for my entire professional career. As a result I hold myself as a fairly decent barometer between the never-exposed, technically clueless and the well-versed robotics community.
At first I was uncertain when I saw that they are using sports reporters alongside STEM personalities. That changed sharply when I saw Bobak Ferdowsi featured, and when I heard Kenny Florian explain the transfer of kinetic energy in the first episode (he's actually very articulate without the appearance of dumbing it down for the masses and I've come to appreciate his weigh-in on the matches). While for nostalgia's sake I was sad to not see Mark Beiro return, they've captured that boxing introduction element perfectly with Faruq Tauheed.
See, if we keep touting that we're participating in a sport for the mind and if we keep trying to get our schools to lend robotics the same legitimacy that sports programs enjoy, we have to include that sports community in what we're trying to accomplish. I'm not saying the whole of America are completely stupid, but Jim Jefferies said it best in that "we have to walk as slow as our slowest person to keep society moving". You cannot introduce someone to Battlebots for the first time and assume that they understand the complicated intricacies and history of robotics competitions. The net-in-a-box was a great example - the casual viewer probably thought the birthday surprise by Complete Control was awesome, but the rest of us knew that there was no way the refs were going to let that fly. Made for great TV, though!
Yes, they weigh categories such as "Defense" and "Aggressiveness" which are somewhat subjective, general, and atypical metrics that you would use to analyze a combat robot. As a community of strategists and robot builders, we know that. America may not know that. Those arbitrary stats are a great general indicator for, say, a small child who has never been exposed to robotics before Battlebots. This show can be a starting point without having exhaustive analysis and still get the point across.
In the blurbs that have featured women engineers/builders on the show, they have all been shown as equals to their male peers without expressly calling that out. There's very little of the special, rare unicorn mentality and these women have done an amazing job of spreading the message of "I wanted to do this, so I did it." The message from all builders, from all backgrounds, of all genders and ages, has been that they are interested in competitive robotics and they do this because they think it is cool. I could go on and on about how I think ABC is doing this particular part of the show so very, very right, but I'll keep that for another post at another time.
By showing the builders, by explaining their professions and backgrounds, the masses will start to see that building a robot is an attainable goal that isn't just for the super-nerdy male engineering stereotype. It gives them the opportunity to build allegiance to a team and that will keep viewers coming back week after week to see how "their" robot has done. It's the same as shows like Amazing Race or the Bachelorette or whatever, right? You always want "your" contestant to win. So even those that are watching with no intention of getting involved themselves, they become invested in the outcome. Maybe they have kids who watch alongside, and discover the robotics team in their school. And just like that, you have a new generation invested in learning about technology application and getting ready for their big trip to Louisville or St. Louis.
I think they have found the perfect intersection between those who have no technical expertise and usually tune in to watch Honey Boo Boo-esque programming, and those who are professional engineers who are dying to build their own Battlebot. What you're perceiving as shallow is playing Mozart to the masses in the starting format of a children's lullaby. It will catch on, and the show can improve on some of the technical commentary once it has been further established and approved for more than just 6 quick episodes. This is an exceptionally difficult middle ground to navigate, and frankly I'm pretty pleased that ABC has done it so well. It could have been rebooted very poorly and the sport would have significant hurdles to overcome before being televised ever again, but the program's success is shared success for the acceptance and beginning of mainstream competitive robotics.
Fingers are crossed for Season 2 to be announced any day now!
Necroterra
29-06-2015, 13:20
While the foam is deccelerating the spinning blade, the will be plenty of equal and opposite reactions going on that will affect both robots.
Also, in general, anything that does a lot of deccelerating in a short distance starts to be more like tire rubber, or loops of steel cable, than it is like foam.
I think I would prefer trying a mixture of sloped armor, mechanisms that would anchor me to the floor when struck, and/or actively grabbing the spinner while it is slow after a hit.
I'll admit I don't know much about the topic, but if you used the right density of foam (or maybe layers of scaling density), wouldn't the deformation absorb the impact and send you flying less? Solid steel won't get shredded by a spinner, but instead it just launches you away.
I'll admit I don't know much about the topic, but if you used the right density of foam (or maybe layers of scaling density), wouldn't the deformation absorb the impact and send you flying less? Solid steel won't get shredded by a spinner, but instead it just launches you away.
Shock absorber deformation slows/reduces the accelerations, but doesn't decrease the total energy involved. So, yes, shock absorbers tend to attempt to reduce shock magnitudes by spreading energy over longer times and distances, but they don't make the energy disappear (some is turned into heat, the rest shows up in rebounds, etc.).
If a spinning blade does hit a large, inflexible mass, BOTH the item that gets hit AND the device holding the blade experience roughly similar shocks. A difference is that the spinning blade device's designer knew exactly where that shock would hit, and could build in compensation for the shock.
Protecting (in the sense of surviving a head-on hit without being affected) the exterior of anything physical from attacks that can come from any direction an attacker chooses is usually hard to do.
Becoming a more difficult target to hit head-on, or finding a hole in the attacker's strategy is often easier than choosing to be on defense and then going toe-to-toe with them.
Blake
Agreed, so far all I have learned about the rules of this competition is that the rules don't really matter.
I have no desire to violate my NDA by posting the rules in question, but rest assured there was a rule which would in fact disallow the use of the net.
For anyone who is interested in the specifics of the rules involved, they have now been made publicly available, (http://www.docdroid.net/152oj/battlebots-2015-design-rulesrev-11a.pdf.html) in response to a viewer email along the lines of the questions in this thread. They were released along with a disclaimer that they expect these to change for any further seasons, and that the highly experienced intended audience allowed them to be more concise (and unfortunately, apparently vague) than they would otherwise be.
Ryan Dognaux
29-06-2015, 18:55
I think the show is great. It's entertaining to kids and adults alike and is awesome for someone who doesn't know anything about robots. You have to remember that we aren't their target audience - they assume we will watch. It's the other 99% that they need to reel in. I think ABC is killing it and I hope season 2 happens!
Those rules are a lot looser than I expected them to be. They don't appear to put limits on springs.
Also, you can fly. I thought there would be more quadcopter robots.
Those rules are a lot looser than I expected them to be. They don't appear to put limits on springs.
Also, you can fly. I thought there would be more quadcopter robots.
Copters would satisfy the crowd-appeal criterion, but what payload would they carry that would help a team win a match?
Those rules are a lot looser than I expected them to be. They don't appear to put limits on springs.
Also, you can fly. I thought there would be more quadcopter robots.
I think part of the reason they were so loose is that they only had competitors who had been there before. So the first line of the rules to me seemed like an unspoken: "you already know the rules"
Copters would satisfy the crowd-appeal criterion, but what payload would they carry that would help a team win a match?
I was thinking of powered drilling with (if you can get the tech) synthetic gecko feet to stay on top, but I guess that would be counted as damaging the electronics.
EDIT: you could go for the power switch, but that could be hard to get.
You could try to lift them off the ground! And then drop them from a height of 8-10 ft! If you can clamp on that well, anyway.
Copters would satisfy the crowd-appeal criterion, but what payload would they carry that would help a team win a match?
Depending on superstructure armor and location of certain critical items, of course, if some copter had a payload on a quick-release (probably want it on a winch as well) and a targeting camera aka "bomb sight", I suspect that a fair number of robots could be damaged or disabled in their internals--see "frisbee on power switch" in FRC 2013. Naturally, the power switch would be the primary target, or anything that happened to be moving.
That being said, I rather suspect that that would be rather difficult given armor considerations and best-guess payload-carrying capacity.
Darkseer54
29-06-2015, 21:36
Everyone here saying tombstone is the best, but you gotta remember, tombstone was beaten by mecanum wheels. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acqKWVaB1Lo) :P
EDIT: My brother just pointed out that on the battlebots website, the tombstone builder said Alcoholic Stepfather is his favorite robot.
Darkseer54
29-06-2015, 22:35
I found this on the battlebots reddit, and it about encompasses everyone here's complaints (or so I believe). http://www.reddit.com/r/battlebots/comments/3ax944/contacted_battlebots_was_not_disappointed/
Everyone here saying tombstone is the best, but you gotta remember, tombstone was beaten by mecanum wheels. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acqKWVaB1Lo) :P
EDIT: My brother just pointed out that on the battlebots website, the tombstone builder said Alcoholic Stepfather is his favorite robot.
::ouch:: What in the world was the other robot made out of??
::ouch:: What in the world was the other robot made out of??Straw.
It was the straw that broke the camel's blade.
Zebra_Fact_Man
30-06-2015, 01:30
Straw.
It was the straw that broke the camel's blade.
Boo.
Loose Screw
30-06-2015, 08:20
After watching episode 2, I can tell most of the controversy was manufactured, just to build up "drama". A veteran would know better to do a blatant late hit. A grey area in the rules about entanglement? That all seems like stuff the producers shoehorned in to build up hype.
I do wish they would get into the more technical side of robots such as drivetrains and maximum momentum/energy of weapons. I remember watching the show as a kid and wondering why some weapons did better than ones that looked identical. That level of detail would answer those questions, and even inspire students to try to figure out how to improve upon some of their favorites. Plus maximum energy could give an actual stat to compare robots before a match, instead of arbitrary numbers with no basis.
pmangels17
30-06-2015, 08:34
For a slightly more advanced look at the robots, check out this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnACo3zgI5k) video, as well as the few other Battlebots videos on the Tested Youtube page. These videos go into more detail about every robot at the competition, as well as the arena, and at least a bit more about the construction processes behind the different build teams. It's might not be the full CAD post that we are all secretly hoping for, but it is definitely more informative than the show's stories on the robots, from a technical aspect.
*Derails Thread*
For those of you who haven't heard of Tested, it is a channel produced primarily by Norman Chan and Will Smith (the tech guy, not the Independence Day guy), along with occasional contributions from Jamie Hyneman, and more frequent contributions from Adam Savage (AKA The Mythbusters). I've spent a lot of my summer watching this channel, especially the Adam Savage pieces. Adam has the coolest shop I've ever seen for just one guy, and he has all sorts of amazing things to show off. Will and Norm do a lot of reporting on nerdy stuff, including Maker Faire, trade shows, prop building, Arduino, and just about every aspects of tech stuff. For all the FIRST-ers out there, check it out, it's awesome.
*ReRails Thread*
Billfred
30-06-2015, 09:06
Depending on superstructure armor and location of certain critical items, of course, if some copter had a payload on a quick-release (probably want it on a winch as well) and a targeting camera aka "bomb sight", I suspect that a fair number of robots could be damaged or disabled in their internals--see "frisbee on power switch" in FRC 2013. Naturally, the power switch would be the primary target, or anything that happened to be moving.
That being said, I rather suspect that that would be rather difficult given armor considerations and best-guess payload-carrying capacity.
And the fact that these guys don't have standardized switches. Some have buttons, some have removable links, some may have more than one of each. You'd need to do something special to pull that stunt off.
Michael Hill
30-06-2015, 09:25
Adam has the coolest shop I've ever seen for just one guy, and he has all sorts of amazing things to show off.
His tool and hardware organization system makes me drool a little: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OPSbF6kM9k
Ryan Dognaux
30-06-2015, 09:51
After watching episode 2, I can tell most of the controversy was manufactured, just to build up "drama".
Apparently not according to one of the teams doing an AMA on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/battlebots/comments/3bgqcd/mohawk_robot_team_member_here_ama/cslznuc?context=3
It doesn't really seem like there's any FMS type system so there's nothing really to stop someone from driving after the buzzer.
Jared Russell
30-06-2015, 11:12
Naturally, the power switch would be the primary target, or anything that happened to be moving.
None of the robots have externally accessible power switches for obvious reasons.
After watching episode 2, I can tell most of the controversy was manufactured, just to build up "drama". A veteran would know better to do a blatant late hit. A grey area in the rules about entanglement? That all seems like stuff the producers shoehorned in to build up hype.
I'm surprised you can tell all of that was manufactured, because it was in fact real.
I guarantee the producers and audience and event staff didn't know what was in the box because it would have messed up that team's strategy to reveal it to everyone. Furthermore, when you have a borderline legal devise, an "ask for forgiveness" situation will almost always help you. If you ask ahead, it will usually be looked at more closely and a gap in the rules closed.
The late hit stuff just isn't a big deal (when you're not a spinning weapon robot). Some people are just more sensitive and their are emotions involved. Both teams are good guys, I've known them both for forever, but they both get very sucked up into the competition.
The sort of hokey or "fake" looks stuff is still the builders being people. It's just a show.
Battlebots has a neat goal, to make robot builders be famous and look like rock stars. So kids look up to them like Michael Jordan or Britney Spears. My idols when I grew up? Battlebot builders. Isn't that strangely similar to another one of my passions?
/sarcasm Also, yes please come up with wacky designs to stop spinning weapons, especially if I am fighting you with a spinning blade! Please use anything besides angled hard steel plates. /sarcasm As a spinner builder, I would love to hit absolutely anything over just angled steel plates :)
Everyone here saying tombstone is the best, Hmmm, I wonder if a sturdy main bot could cooperate with one or two minibots to pin Tombstone long enough for the minibot to latch a pincer onto a Tombstone tire (and later onto the other tire).
The pincer's job would be to destroy the tire, not to become entangled with it.
A Tombstone that can't easily point it's nose at you (no tires) is a one-trick pony without a trick....
Blake
Citrus Dad
30-06-2015, 13:48
I do wish they would get into the more technical side of robots such as drivetrains and maximum momentum/energy of weapons. I remember watching the show as a kid and wondering why some weapons did better than ones that looked identical. That level of detail would answer those questions, and even inspire students to try to figure out how to improve upon some of their favorites. Plus maximum energy could give an actual stat to compare robots before a match, instead of arbitrary numbers with no basis.
That could be a version of "Up close and personal" that ABC started with its Olympics broadcasts in the '70s. It just would have a different focus, and could be oriented toward kids rather than housewives (which was the original target back then.)
carpedav000
08-07-2015, 17:19
Anyone care to predict the final fight? Im going for IceWave vs. Sting with Sting winning.
Anyone care to predict the final fight? Im going for IceWave vs. Sting with Sting winning.
I'll predict the final four: Tombstone vs Bronco and Icewave vs Aptyx.
But I like all 4 of them and honestly could see any matchup in the finals from those four.
Is there a link to the most updated bracket ?
Wikipedia BattleBots (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BattleBots) has some great information but its not updated to the latest results.
AdamHeard
09-07-2015, 13:06
Is there a link to the most updated bracket ?
Wikipedia BattleBots (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BattleBots) has some great information but its not updated to the latest results.
Is this (http://battlebots.com/bracket/) what you're looking for?
Zebra_Fact_Man
09-07-2015, 14:39
I'll predict the final four: Tombstone vs Bronco and Icewave vs Aptyx.
But I like all 4 of them and honestly could see any matchup in the finals from those four.
I agree with 100% of this statement.
Eugene Fang
09-07-2015, 15:30
The clips at the end of episode 3 seem to spoil a lot of the results. Or maybe they're throwing us off.
The other Gabe
09-07-2015, 17:28
The clips at the end of episode 3 seem to spoil a lot of the results. Or maybe they're throwing us off.
and now we need to know... so we have to tune in next week :rolleyes:
The trailers do seem to be intentionally deceiving. There's been a very high concentration of good moments for the robot that ends up loosing, which out of context, sometimes look like decisive moments. For example, Bronco hung up on the side rail being rammed by Witch Doctor was prominently featured, as was Ghost Raptor's blade destruction vs. Complete Control.
There's definitely a lot that can be deduced from them based on match-ups shown alone though.
Eugene Fang
09-07-2015, 17:57
Actually, they're almost certainly throwing us off.
These two images were from episode 1:
http://i.imgur.com/VboSfw5.png
http://i.imgur.com/WyXbXYd.png
Being on opposite sides of the bracket, Tombstone and Bite Force shouldn't meet until finals (first image).
However, Icewave and HyperShock wouldn't meet unless Bite Force was defeated by HyperShock (second image).
There must have been additional filming after the competition (like a free-for-all rumble or something) to get footage that wouldn't spoil the results.
I guess we'll just have to watch to find out what's going on. :p
EDIT:
Prediction: Icewave vs HyperShock in semifinals. Both KE weapons destroy each other beyond repair. Biteforce is a sub for finals because other robots are also beyond repair due to facing KE weapons. Tombstone loses.
carpedav000
09-07-2015, 18:40
If TombStone and Sting meet up, sting will likely win because Last rites vs. Sewer Snake has always ended in a Sewer Snake win.
The other Gabe
10-07-2015, 15:37
If TombStone and Sting meet up, sting will likely win because Last rites vs. Sewer Snake has always ended in a Sewer Snake win.
to be fair, the one on 2011 doesnt really count because last rites broke their spinner motor the match before that, and couldn't fix it before the match
carpedav000
10-07-2015, 15:50
to be fair, the one on 2011 doesnt really count because last rites broke their spinner motor the match before that, and couldn't fix it before the match
Im talking about times when Last Rites' weapon worked.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that there are 28 robots listed on the Battlebots website (http://battlebots.com/robots/) and four of them (BETA, Bull Dog, Chronic, and Splatter) have not been featured on the show. Is there a reason for this?
logank013
11-07-2015, 13:36
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that there are 28 robots listed on the Battlebots website (http://battlebots.com/robots/) and four of them (BETA, Bull Dog, Chronic, and Splatter) have not been featured on the show. Is there a reason for this?
Hmmm... Not sure. In the first round on the show, they had 24 robots
AdamHeard
11-07-2015, 13:41
Hmmm... Not sure. In the first round on the show, they had 24 robots
They were alternates and/or robots that couldn't compete for various reasons (like BETA) and were replaced by alternates.
If anyone wants to take a short side trip into 1 lb and 3 lb battlebots (and small autonomous vehicles), our good friends over at SparkFun recently held a Saturday of fun at their HQ.
The Battle bots show up about halfway through this video
SparkFun AVR summary video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ3fpZFWHDM&utm_source=SparkFun+Customer+Newsletter&utm_campaign=2ca58c52dd-July_17thNewsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa5287abaf-2ca58c52dd-61718749)
Barry Bonzack
17-07-2015, 23:36
Been very busy and haven't had the time to watch much TV, so I'm catching up on episodes on ABC's website (http://abc.go.com/shows/battlebots/episode-guide/season-01).
This brings me back to being a huge fan of the series when I was in middle school. My dad and I watched and recorded every episode, I still have the first 3 seasons on VHS tape. A few years later when I learned my high school was starting a robotics team, I wanted to join because I was exposed from this television show.
After being involved in FIRST for 12 years, I wasn't sure if I'd still enjoy a show about a destructive competition. The verdict after watching: It's still awesome, and brings back memories of watching when I was a kid.
This is great exposure for engineers doing cool things, and I hope it inspires future kids to participate. I'm willing to answer "no, our FIRST robots don't battle other robots" for another 10 years if BattleBots reaches students and audiences not yet reached by FIRST.
Even more thrilling is to see a someone who you mentored as a student, now on national TV. Jamison Go is a 1902 Exploding Bacon alumni, class of 2009. He was our human player in 2009, received his undergrad at Georgia Tech, and is now part of Team Overhaul.
2009 http://www.explodingbacon.com/forums/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=media;id=215;preview
2015 http://static.east.abc.go.com/service/image/ratio/id/VDKA0_t7x4k15e/dim/220.16x9.jpg?cb=0032
Oink Oink Boom! Lets go Overhaul!
pmangels17
19-07-2015, 21:23
Oh my Tombstone....
Barry Bonzack
19-07-2015, 21:40
Spectacular match. 254 mentors vs a 1902 alumni. Instant classic, good showing from both teams.
Oink Oink Boom! Go Jamison Go.
Spectacular match. 254 mentors vs a 1902 alumni. Instant classic, good showing from both teams.
Oink Oink Boom! Go Jamison Go.
Also a 469 alum. They clearly know what they're doing!
i seriously should not be on this thread, someones going to post spoilers and ruin it for me...
(9 minutes till it starts for me. till then stuck watching family feud...)
Barry Bonzack
19-07-2015, 21:52
Also a 469 alum. They clearly know what they're doing!
Can you shed more light? Who was the 469 alumnus? How cool.
i seriously should not be on this thread, someones going to post spoilers and ruin it for me...
(9 minutes till it starts for me. till then stuck watching family feud...)
Bill Engvall wins
carpedav000
19-07-2015, 22:05
I love how every prediction ever about ICEWave just got pulverized (BattleBots pun intended)
Electronica1
19-07-2015, 22:08
I love how every prediction ever about ICEWave just got pulverized (BattleBots pun intended)
I guessed it after watching the tested video. But I couldn't really tell if that shock absorbing frame ghost raptor talked about in the tested video actually did anything.
Kevin Leonard
19-07-2015, 22:20
I might just remind people on this forum that West Coasters see the Battlebots episode after us East Coasters (#eastcoastbeastcoast).
Please, if you're going to discuss the episode, do so with a spoiler tag. This is a spoiler tag!
Lil' Lavery
19-07-2015, 22:26
West coasters should just stay out of this thread until tomorrow. Or move East.
Or move East.
but the west coast doesn't have hurricanes. also we have 254. and 1678. good enough.
Thad House
19-07-2015, 22:48
but the west coast doesn't have hurricanes. also we have 254. and 1678. good enough.
And the best video streams in FIRST.
carpedav000
19-07-2015, 22:50
Aight, now I know how to use spoiler tags. And now that I have re-watched the tested video, they did kinda spoil the De-icer (I spent all this time wondering why it said that on it).
carpedav000
19-07-2015, 22:53
And the best video streams in FIRST.
I would disagree with this statement. Michigan has best livestreams.
I would disagree with this statement. Michigan has best livestreams.
I would disagree (https://youtu.be/qZJFf7ouOyg?t=4m21s)
Shouldn't we be talking about battlebots anyways...?
connor.worley
20-07-2015, 01:25
What a good episode. I think we'll see a Tombstone vs Bite Force finals.
Short Stuff
20-07-2015, 01:26
The deicer prevented icewave from getting close enough to do any real damage. the one good hit icewave got flipped them over. Also the bot that tombstone just got really luck defeating witch doctor. Witch doctor was dominating that match.
I guessed it after watching the tested video. But I couldn't really tell if that shock absorbing frame ghost raptor talked about in the tested video actually did anything.
spoiler...it was totally worthless.
cbale2000
20-07-2015, 04:52
The deicer prevented icewave from getting close enough to do any real damage. the one good hit icewave got flipped them over. Also the bot that tombstone just got really luck defeating witch doctor. Witch doctor was dominating that match.
IMO the only damage done to Tombstone it did to itself. Witch Doctor just had a thick enough armor plate to prevent any real damage to it. Kinetic energy did the rest.
Bryce2471
20-07-2015, 05:07
IMO the only damage done to Tombstone it did to itself. Witch Doctor just had a thick enough armor plate to prevent any real damage to it. Kinetic energy did the rest.
In my opinion, what you just described is the best strategy for defeating a powerful spinner...
I would disagree with this statement. Michigan has best livestreams.
MSC is professionally done by a local TV crew and paid for by sponsors. I don't know about 2014/2015, but when I was still in Michigan, livestreams for the districts were often done with a GoPro.
Can you shed more light? Who was the 469 alumnus? How cool.
469's 2010 operator/de facto team captain. Charles Guan is also a 1771 alumnus, I believe. Jamison Go said on Facebook that 190 was also represented in that semifinal match.
Munchskull
20-07-2015, 12:26
Wow, Ghost Raptors evolution reminds me of the evolution that FRC robots saw this year.
AdamHeard
20-07-2015, 12:28
What a good episode. I think we'll see a Tombstone vs Bite Force finals.
You spelled Bronco wrong.
connor.worley
20-07-2015, 13:14
You spelled Bronco wrong.
Tombstone seems to be able to turn in place pretty well and I don't see them letting Bronco get position for a flip on them. Tombstone destroying itself on the other hand...
Michael Hill
20-07-2015, 13:28
It seemed like Bronco's driver isn't exactly the best one there. Watching the match last night, it looked like he didn't have much field awareness (kept running into obstacles on the field and walls), but perhaps it's just a small sample size issue. Also, I'm going to assume that Tombstone has at least one more weapon and that they have time to put it on, so I'm leaning pretty heavily on Tombstone winning that match.
Also, it wasn't abundantly clear what happened with Ghost Raptor. Was their main weapon permanently damaged or did they just take it off to face against Icewave? If it was permanently damaged, I don't really see what they can do to stop Bite Force, but I suspect they'll do something to make it a good fight. I'm going to give Bite Force the benefit, because I seem to recall the announcers saying something about Ghost Raptor weapon being irreparably damaged.
Unfortunately, if Bite Force faces off with Tombstone, I think it's a pretty easy fight for Tombstone unless Bite Force throws on their heavy armor, which seems to be about the only defense against Tombstone. Let it destroy itself.
Loose Screw
20-07-2015, 13:42
Also, it wasn't abundantly clear what happened with Ghost Raptor. Was their main weapon permanently damaged or did they just take it off to face against Icewave? If it was permanently damaged, I don't really see what they can do to stop Bite Force, but I suspect they'll do something to make it a good fight. I'm going to give Bite Force the benefit, because I seem to recall the announcers saying something about Ghost Raptor weapon being irreparably damaged.
Ghost Raptor's horizontal spinner was sheared in half during one of their previous fights.
I don't know how much time they have between rounds, but the deicer seemed to be perfectly designed for Icewave. Did they bring that to the event, or design and manufacture it entirely between rounds? If the latter is the case, then it's highly likely that they'll have another redesign tailor made for their opponent. I like how much freedom they have when it comes to redesigns.
tindleroot
20-07-2015, 15:13
Tombstone seems to be able to turn in place pretty well and I don't see them letting Bronco get position for a flip on them. Tombstone destroying itself on the other hand...
I think Bronco would have a pretty good chance of defeating Tombstone if they extend the flipper arm a little more. It rides so close to the ground that they could get underneath Tombstone (spinner or not) and flip.
I have a feeling there will be a Bronco vs. Bite Force finals.
Kevin Leonard
20-07-2015, 15:19
I think Bronco would have a pretty good chance of defeating Tombstone if they extend the flipper arm a little more. It rides so close to the ground that they could get underneath Tombstone (spinner or not) and flip.
I have a feeling there will be a Bronco vs. Bite Force finals.
I really wanna see Bronco vs. Bite Force or Ghost Raptor in the finals. I think Bite Force would have a better time against Bronco than Ghost Raptor would, but I don't know.
I think Tombstone is the weakest of the remaining four robots.
Am I the only one who finds Ghost Raptor matches boring?
wesbass23
20-07-2015, 16:15
Am I the only one who finds Ghost Raptor matches boring?
The matches themselves might not be the most exciting but the strategy the Ghost Raptor team uses is the best of all robots. They lost their main weapon in their first fight of the event and still made it to the semis. The de-icer was particularly clever and reminds me of the blockers teams would use in 2013 to stop FCS.
connor.worley
20-07-2015, 17:09
Am I the only one who finds Ghost Raptor matches boring?
No. I feel like the de-icer is getting overhyped. It didn't stop Icewave from hitting them. Ghost Raptor was able to take the hit, but the match was pretty much over in 15 seconds. Not very exciting.
Ghost Raptor's horizontal spinner was sheared in half during one of their previous fights.
I don't know how much time they have between rounds, but the deicer seemed to be perfectly designed for Icewave. Did they bring that to the event, or design and manufacture it entirely between rounds? If the latter is the case, then it's highly likely that they'll have another redesign tailor made for their opponent. I like how much freedom they have when it comes to redesigns.
It was made on site between matches.
Loose Screw
21-07-2015, 06:32
It was made on site between matches.
Wow, that's very impressive. Do you know how much time they have in between matches?
Monochron
21-07-2015, 10:10
No. I feel like the de-icer is getting overhyped. It didn't stop Icewave from hitting them. Ghost Raptor was able to take the hit, but the match was pretty much over in 15 seconds. Not very exciting.
It was basically a last ditch effort from a team not willing to let a huge setback kill them. It probably . . . shouldn't have won it for them, but I think the fact that Icewave's blade had to bounce around between Ghost Raptor's ramp and the de-icer made all the difference. The fact that Icewave was lifted off the ground while its blade bounced around against Ghost Raptor and it's de-icer threw it off balance too much.
Though I was rooting for Icewave, the de-icer was one of those great "not going down without a fight" / "crazy enough to work" moments.
... the de-icer was one of those great "not going down without a fight" / "crazy enough to work" moments.I tend to look at more in terms of what they should have been doing all along, whenever facing a spinner.
Po-taa-toe vs Poe-tah-toe
Tastes great vs Less filling
etc.
The other Gabe
21-07-2015, 12:59
In my opinion, what you just described is the best strategy for defeating a powerful spinner...
+1: in a battle with Tombstone; tombstone will cause most of the damage. now whether it causes this to itself, or its opponent...
The other Gabe
21-07-2015, 13:03
It seemed like Bronco's driver isn't exactly the best one there. Watching the match last night, it looked like he didn't have much field awareness (kept running into obstacles on the field and walls), but perhaps it's just a small sample size issue. Also, I'm going to assume that Tombstone has at least one more weapon and that they have time to put it on, so I'm leaning pretty heavily on Tombstone winning that match.
Bronco's driver is great: look up T-minus or Toro from the old battlebots- there's some more extended battles that show his skill better. I think that he just assumed that the field hazards wouldn't come up, since they were pretty much non existent in previous matches. and tombstone used his shorter blade vs witch doctor, so he still has 1 left
Amanda Morrison
21-07-2015, 13:59
Turns out the writers at Vice produced an article that provides the meat of my earlier argument, albeit in much more eloquent fashion. Beware strong language in some parts of the article.
Battlebots is Sports All Right, and It's Amazing (https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/battlebots-is-sports-all-right-and-its-amazing)
Literally the only thing I've been upset about has been the lack of ABC announcing the second season. I think this experiment in bringing back Battlebots to prime-time television has been an incredible success.
Wow, that's very impressive. Do you know how much time they have in between matches?
Depended on what point in the tournament it was. Probably 18 hours between the first fight and second fight, then around 2-4 hours for each subsequent one.
I really hope VEX considers giving FIRST and run for their money by getting a large robot competition going. I believe First needs some competition and we need more choices in the large robot format.
PayneTrain
26-07-2015, 21:58
You're in for a treat West Coast!
See y'all next week to see who wins BattleBots in Detroit!
Wait...
You're in for a treat West Coast!
See y'all next week to see who wins BattleBots in Detroit!
Wait...
Ha!
Ginger Power
26-07-2015, 22:03
You're in for a treat West Coast!
See y'all next week to see who wins BattleBots in Detroit!
Wait...
Remember what site you're on! CD members have been known to go off on people for comments like that :D
Remember what site you're on! CD members have been known to go off on people for comments like that :D
You obviously have never met Wil Payne before... :rolleyes:
You're in for a treat West Coast!
Liking the sound of that!
Ginger Power
26-07-2015, 22:09
You obviously have never met Wil Payne before... :rolleyes:
His comments are some of my favorite :cool:
pmangels17
26-07-2015, 22:12
I WON'T POST ANY SPOILERS BUT I'M SO HAPPY RIGHT NOW!!!
John Retkowski
26-07-2015, 22:14
*spoilers not really though*
Let's not forget to give Mr. Ventimilgia and team aptyx the credit they deserve. Biteforce dominated in the finals! Paul is truly a talented builder and driver. They deserved that trophy.
Remember what site you're on! CD members have been known to go off on people for comments like that :D
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1449071&highlight=anna+kendrick#post1449071
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1491355#post1491355
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1491142#post1491142
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1490522#post1490522
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1487857#post1487857
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1482271#post1482271
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1481626#post1481626
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1480362#post1480362
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1479123#post1479123
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1384619#post1384619
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1383958#post1383958
PayneTrain
26-07-2015, 22:32
If the numbers I have been seeing are right, BattleBots maintained about 70% of the key demo from the premiere and throughout its run. It also was pulling in about 83% of its premier audience throughout the run. This show had a pretty solid lead-in and was rarely contested among the networks in the realm of new programming (not reruns), which enabled their success. I would put renewal chances pretty favorably right now (2/3 chance). It would be interesting to see how they could stand up to winter programming on network TV, but I think another 6-8 episode pickup for next summer is probable.
/snip
You missed my favorite. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1459950#post1459950)
And a bonus. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1459077#post1459077)
It would be interesting to see how they could stand up to winter programming on network TV, but I think another 6-8 episode pickup for next summer is probable.
Considering the time frame that network TV typically works on, a second summer season is the most the most realistic option. The fall is very much locked in at the moment, and there's only a small amount of wiggle room for cancellations in the winter. Now if ABC is looking for content for one of their cable properties (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney%E2%80%93ABC_Television_Group) then the schedule opens up completely.
PayneTrain
26-07-2015, 22:55
Considering the time frame that network TV typically works on, a second summer season is the most the most realistic option. The fall is very much locked in at the moment, and there's only a small amount of wiggle room for cancellations in the winter. Now if ABC is looking for content for one of their cable properties (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney%E2%80%93ABC_Television_Group) then the schedule opens up completely.
I should have been clearer, I was implying a best case scenario would be a pickup for a summer 2016/winter 2016 pickup. However, you point out that ABC has a lot of networks under its belt, including the ESPN family of networks that has seen both its studio and live event coverage chipped away at in chunks over the last year. A return to the loosely esoteric for ESPN with something like BattleBots can't be totally out of left field.
You missed my favorite. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1459950#post1459950)
And a bonus. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1459077#post1459077)
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1490342#post1490342
PayneTrain
26-07-2015, 23:59
Remember what site you're on! CD members have been known to go off on people for comments like that :D
Most everyone on this board is smart enough to stay out of the robotics black hole I currently live in. They can usually live with the satisfaction they don't live here, I guess.
AdamHeard
27-07-2015, 00:07
We used these Chinese encoders (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Incremental-Rotary-Encoder-360p-r-6mm-Shaft-5-24vdc-/290778909653?) in place of S4's for practice bots to save some money.
They're way bigger, but worked well for us. Took about two weeks to get to us.
We used these Chinese encoders (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Incremental-Rotary-Encoder-360p-r-6mm-Shaft-5-24vdc-/290778909653?) in place of S4's for practice bots to save some money.
They're way bigger, but worked well for us. Took about two weeks to get to us.
I think you have the wrong thread, Adam.
I think you have the wrong thread, Adam.
He's chief sniping on mobile :P
AdamHeard
27-07-2015, 00:36
Congrats Paul! Awesome Job
I think you have the wrong thread, Adam.
These things happen....
These things happen....
Someone needs to create a CD app so these tragedies don't occur.
If the numbers I have been seeing are right, BattleBots maintained about 70% of the key demo from the premiere and throughout its run. It also was pulling in about 83% of its premier audience throughout the run. This show had a pretty solid lead-in and was rarely contested among the networks in the realm of new programming (not reruns), which enabled their success. I would put renewal chances pretty favorably right now (2/3 chance). It would be interesting to see how they could stand up to winter programming on network TV, but I think another 6-8 episode pickup for next summer is probable.
Battlebots 2015 ratings:
# Viewers A18-49
1 5.44 1.9
2 4.84 1.4
3 4.15 1.2
4 4.07 1.2
5 4.45 1.3
6* 4.61 1.4
Viewers are in millions, A18-49 are ratings (http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/09/02/what-is-a-tv-rating-and-who-is-it-dating-2014-15-edition/298788/).
Episode 6 ratings are preliminary and subject to adjustment.
A18-49 ratings matter, not total viewers. This actually works in Battlebots' favor because it skews younger than most other shows on TV.
Grant Cox
27-07-2015, 12:06
Go Bite Force! You can read more about VEX's involvement in the 2015 BattleBots season, including some insight from Paul Ventimiglia, here: http://www.vexrobotics.com/battlebots-2015
Personally, I was a huge fan of the season.. I think that ABC nailed it. Perfect blend of cool robots, big hits, high production value, and minimal reality show fluff. It was enticing and appealing to new viewers while also providing enough "raw" action and pit footage for robot fans like us. Much more "professional robotics event" a la Michigan State Championship, much less "America's Got Talent" with constant audience shots and manufactured drama.
For the next season they should do an open casting call for teams to qualify for the big show in regional tournaments. Kind of what American Idol does. It'll weed out any potential lemons and give the audience the best bots on display.
AdamHeard
27-07-2015, 13:07
For the next season they should do an open casting call for teams to qualify for the big show in regional tournaments. Kind of what American Idol does. It'll weed out any potential lemons and give the audience the best bots on display.
The two major downsides to this are the higher cost, and the many builders putting money into their robots that wouldn't get TV time.
For the next season they should do an open casting call for teams to qualify for the big show in regional tournaments. Kind of what American Idol does. It'll weed out any potential lemons and give the audience the best bots on display.Third downside to this is that the (reasonably successful) show didn't appear to select entrants based solely on expected performance in the matches.
IMO the show was about entertainment, as much or more as it was about effective robots. I assume that any follow-up show will be too. When those two notions overlapped, that was good for the show; but when they didn't, eye candy seemed to be just as important as the likelihood that a bot would win matches.
BBray_T1296
27-07-2015, 14:11
Third downside to this is that the (reasonably successful) show didn't appear to select entrants based solely on expected performance in the matches.
You have to realize that Battlebots is playing the long game here. They only had 1 season to prove themselves, before they get possibly a longer contract. They selected robots with audience appeal to got the ratings up to allow season 2. Once the show is re-established I believe they will migrate towards battle-ready vs crowd appeal.
You have to realize that Battlebots is playing the long game here. They only had 1 season to prove themselves, before they get possibly a longer contract. They selected robots with audience appeal to got the ratings up to allow season 2. Once the show is re-established I believe they will migrate towards battle-ready vs crowd appeal.I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with me or not, but I'm confident that if you ask television show producers whether they want crowd appeal or want battle-ready robots, they will say "both". I'm also confident that if they are forced to choose between the two, they will say "crowd-appeal".
Television makes money by entertaining the largest possible collection of viewers in their target demographics. They don't make money by recruiting battle-ready robots. When those two ideas overlap, that's good, and shows like BattleBots are born. When they don't overlap, one wins.
You have to remember to look through the correct end of the ABC telescope. It's the end labeled, "How to make money".
You have to remember to look through the correct end of the ABC telescope. It's the end labeled, "How to make money".
For ABC, it's pretty simple. They paid Whalerock Industries a flat(ish) license fee for the rights to air Battlebots. If the ad revenue exceeded that license fee, they made money. If the ad revenue was less than the license fee, they lost money.
If and how Whalerock made money is a bit more complicated. They get the license fee revenue from ABC, DVD/digital distribution revenue, merchandising revenue, (possible) entry fees from participants..., but they also have to pay for the entire costs of production. Too many unknowns to draw any simple(ish) conclusions.
Too many unknowns to draw any simple(ish) conclusions.Again, I'm not sure if a comment was written to disagree, or not. I don't think that I drew any simple conclusions. Regardless, I'll paraphrase what one of my economics professors taught us. "Businesses don't exist to try to make a profit. They have to make a profit."
In this situation, the businesses involved don't exist to determine a best robot combatant. They exist to make money and they are using robot combat to do it. I'm glad they are, and expanding their audition process would be a great development. I expect showmanship to be an important part of any expansion.
If I audition, expect my robot and team to look good, *and* work well.
Once the show is re-established I believe they will migrate towards battle-ready vs crowd appeal.
I don't. There are ways to make sure you have crowd appeal robots that are actually competent, but you are not going to see a move to purely battle ready...because all you will have is horizontal spinners and wedges. The producers/creators of Battlebots have been very consistent in saying that they absolutely do not want that.
Andrew Schreiber
27-07-2015, 17:06
I don't. There are ways to make sure you have crowd appeal robots that are actually competent, but you are not going to see a move to purely battle ready...because all you will have is horizontal spinners and wedges. The producers/creators of Battlebots have been very consistent in saying that they absolutely do not want that.
Which is good because it'd be Recycle Rush levels of BORING. (which is an accomplishment when we're talking about robots destroying each other)
AdamHeard
27-07-2015, 17:12
Which is good because it'd be Recycle Rush levels of BORING. (which is an accomplishment when we're talking about robots destroying each other)
Whoa whoa... It'd be better than recycle rush.
You'd have to outlaw wedges and all weapons to even come close.
JamesBrown
27-07-2015, 17:21
You have to realize that Battlebots is playing the long game here. They only had 1 season to prove themselves, before they get possibly a longer contract. They selected robots with audience appeal to got the ratings up to allow season 2. Once the show is re-established I believe they will migrate towards battle-ready vs crowd appeal.
You are right on part of this, it is definitely about the Long game. However the only way they will go towards functionality instead of crowd appeal is if the market demands it. As others have said the goal is to make money, and in tv ratings = money. The emphasis is always on crowd appeal, the only hope is that over time it may be the case that a robot like Radioactive that is more form than function will have less appeal to the crowd, that they would rather see a competitive match than watch a horizontal spinner crush a work of art.
While there is a part of me that would love to see the best 16 robots in the country compete, even as an engineer I would rather have Mark Setrakian (http://battlebots.wikia.com/wiki/Mechadon) come back with a masterpiece of a robot that may not win anything.
I would however be interested in seeing the casting expanded. Two methods that I have seen work well in the past that could work here would be to use a preexisting tournament (Robogames Maybe) and reserve a spot in season 2 for the winner of that tournament. This would allow another top robot to make it. ABC or Battlebots could produce digital content based on the qualifying tournament, and it would offer a good backstory for a bot.
Another alternative in the world of social media would be a peoples choice robot, similar to above, announce 15 seeds(or however many), and leave one spot open too voting by the public. Teams could post bios and make videos, and through multiple rounds of voting a final team would be selected to take the final tournament seed. This method has been used on many reality shows.
Either of these are in my opinion much more feasible than opening it up to a single tournament, as they allow the producers more control, and have the added benefit of offering web content that would expand the reach of the show outside of the season, which is becoming more important to Networks as the entire 18-49 demo is shifting towards alternatives to TV for their video consumption.
the only hope is that over time it may be the case that a robot like Biohazard that is more form than function will have less appeal to the crowd, that they would rather see a competitive match than watch a horizontal spinner crush a work of art.
Biohazard (http://battlebots.wikia.com/wiki/BioHazard) was all about form. I'm guessing you mean Radioactive?
Biohazard (http://battlebots.wikia.com/wiki/BioHazard) was all about form. I'm guessing you mean Radioactive?
What exactly was that robot supposed to do outside of being victimized by Tombstone? That thing on top of the bot was useless. The only reason they won their first match was because the robot they were competing against didn't work.
The other Gabe
27-07-2015, 18:48
What exactly was that robot supposed to do outside of being victimized by Tombstone? That thing on top of the bot was useless. The only reason they won their first match was because the robot they were competing against didn't work.
well obviously, the hammer was supposed to work: Im guessing they were going for superior mobility, since they had swerve drive (although why they needed 6 wheels, IDK), letting them keep the hammer towards their opponent easier. it was way to complicated to be effective in a sport where your opponent is trying to rip you in half. (also, reinforced plastic???? why????)
Darkseer54
27-07-2015, 20:00
Most everyone on this board is smart enough to stay out of the robotics black hole I currently live in. They can usually live with the satisfaction they don't live here, I guess.
You mean Virginia? :rolleyes: Yeah, sure am satisfied that I don't live there... wait.
JamesBrown
27-07-2015, 20:08
Biohazard (http://battlebots.wikia.com/wiki/BioHazard) was all about form. I'm guessing you mean Radioactive?
Yeah, my mistake
Mark Sheridan
27-07-2015, 22:55
While there is a part of me that would love to see the best 16 robots in the country compete, even as an engineer I would rather have Mark Setrakian (http://battlebots.wikia.com/wiki/Mechadon) come back with a masterpiece of a robot that may not win anything.
He kinda did. the robot that holds the giant nut in each episode is his:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfQ6ygf7QE4
Paul Copioli
28-07-2015, 11:41
He kinda did. the robot that holds the giant nut in each episode is his:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfQ6ygf7QE4
And that hand is a masterpiece. The software and the software interface he made for that thing was impressive.
I had the pleasure of talking with Mark at the Battlebots filming about his creation. It is mesmerizing to watch up close. A thing of beauty to watch. He has all kinds of different modes, but they really only showed the smooth spinning mode most of the time on tv.
In any case, VEX Robotics and Innovation First International are proud to be a small part of the new Battlebots and look to increase our involvement and support in the coming years.
Paul
He kinda did. the robot that holds the giant nut in each episode is his:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfQ6ygf7QE4
Did Paul V also win the hand to go along with the nut? Because that'd be a pretty sweet pedestal to put it on.
http://www.businessinsider.com/abcs-battlebots-producers-talk-season-2-2015-7
The producers touch upon many things that were mentioned in this thread. Looks promising!
Monochron
30-07-2015, 13:01
For anybody interested Tested (http://www.tested.com/)has two more Battlebots videos up.
One (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JbF79cGc8I) gives a technical look into Hypershock and the other (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0rF_eoCKf8) gives a general behind-the-scenes look at the whole competition and has some really great interviews with the drivers and builders. Definitely a must see.
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