FIRST Chesapeake Districts [Archive]

PayneTrain

22-06-2015, 22:36

They have been talking about this for years....and years...They finally got
serious this past year about it. From what we've heard its supposed to
happen next year (2016) whether they are ready or not. DC and Md have been
ready for some time..Va. was the hold up. I haven't heard where the district
events will be yet. I have heard that the district championship is supposed
to alternate from year to year between VCU and U of Md.

I heard about the alternating as well. The championship was on the VCU calendar until very recently, but they were for Week 5 dates, which would be a pretty untenable situation. I didn't watch the webcast but I suspect the only thing locked in is a Week 6 DCMP and the locations for districts are unofficially locked in.

Lil' Lavery

22-06-2015, 22:54

http://i.imgur.com/RqgInG7.jpg

Looks like the tentative locations are Fairfax (GMU?), Richmond (VCU?), Blacksburg (VT?), Portsmouth-ish, DC, Baltimore, and Annapolis.

Lij2015

22-06-2015, 23:10

I hope to god that district triangle for the southeast isn't going to be in Suffolk/Isle of wight...

mrmummert

22-06-2015, 23:55

Well for the Hampton Roads area 2363 was working on it being at Menchville, but they have a schedule conflict with it being there from what i understand. There are though a lot of large High schools in the area. At one time Patty Meade from Norfolk State University was talking about a event there...but i think she wanted to see a regional there...not districts. They do hold one of the FTC events there though. A very long time ago (like 8 or so years ago) someone from Old Dominion was talking about a event there...again i think it was for a regional.

In Suffolk you have three High Schools....Nansemond River...which isn't near
anything in the way of food or lodging, Kings Fork (which has a FTC team) while closer to food and lodging is still not really close to it and lastly Lakeland which isn't near much either. Nansemond River is home to FRC team 3168. Not mentioned are any of the private schools like Nansemond-Suffolk Academy which is just down the road from Kings Fork High.

In Isle of Wight only has Smithfield High which is about as close to food as Suffolk's Kings Fork high is...and lodging a even further away and not much of it. It would be better to look for something in Norfolk, Chesapeake or Va. Beach on the Southside. Across the James River you have Menchville, Warwick and Phoebus...and maybe some others. It might be possible to do something at Christopher Newport College if they could be talked into it.

TDav540

23-06-2015, 00:55

I heard about the alternating as well. The championship was on the VCU calendar until very recently, but they were for Week 5 dates, which would be a pretty untenable situation. I didn't watch the webcast but I suspect the only thing locked in is a Week 6 DCMP and the locations for districts are unofficially locked in.

District Champ is locked it; Sally confirmed College Park.

I imagine they are close to locking in the sites as well.

As for locations, I seriously doubt that VCU will house a district event, because I heard that holding VARI was 200k+. I don't know of any high schools in the area that have been approached/are suitable, but it wouldn't surprise me at all (in fact I expect it) that the Arthur Ashe Center near the Diamond in Richmond will hold the district event.

wilsonmw04

23-06-2015, 08:00

Nate Laverdure

23-06-2015, 08:10

The concentration of 5 events (including the champs) in one small geographic location concerns me. Those teams could attend all their events and not have to travel... Champs MUST rotate to VCU for equity's sake.
The event distribution matches the team distribution.

notmattlythgoe

23-06-2015, 08:59

Looks like the tentative locations are Fairfax (GMU?), Richmond (VCU?), Blacksburg (VT?), Portsmouth-ish, DC, Baltimore, and Annapolis.

My guess is that those triangles are guestimates, last I heard they are still deciding on locations.

wilsonmw04

23-06-2015, 09:15

The event distribution matches the team distribution.

Understood. This does not solve the inequity of the travel costs.

Andrew Schreiber

23-06-2015, 09:30

Understood. This does not solve the inequity of the travel costs.

You shouldn't be asking if it solves inequity of travel costs. You should be asking does this make it worse most teams. There will always be inequity of travel costs and Districts can either exacerbate it, be approximately neutral, or be better. I'd like to see us at least make an effort to be neutral for the majority of teams.

I guess, more importantly, we shouldn't be whining about inequity of travel but instead we should be figuring out how to help teams most negatively impacted by these changes.

wilsonmw04

23-06-2015, 10:44

Andrew Schreiber

23-06-2015, 11:06

So I shouldn't point out the inherent inequity to VA teams? This doesn't make sense. For my team this change is going to add a significant financial burden. A quick ballpark figure is an extra $10k a year. I can't imagine how this is going to affect the smaller teams in my state.
I have two ideas to reduce travel costs.
1. give geographic priority to teams out of the DC metro area to their local events.
2. rotate the Champs between Richmond and MD on a yearly basis.

These seems simple enough.

I'd be curious how you derived that 10k number. Did it include DCMP? Was it based off a single regional season? So we can have some semblance of a useful conversation about this, I propose that we speak in terms of estimated cost per match. To compute this, I'd assume it'd involve estimating travel costs to the two geographically closest district events[1] then dividing by 24. Then we can compare this to your actual cost per match at your regionals from last year.

DCMP is, to me, more comparable to your CMP cost as, for many lower resourced teams, it's the culminating event of the season.

[1] From my research, most teams tend to go to the nearest districts if they only attend 2 events. If the area is dense enough to fill up it likely warrants an additional district.

notmattlythgoe

23-06-2015, 11:16

I'd be curious how you derived that 10k number. Did it include DCMP? Was it based off a single regional season? So we can have some semblance of a useful conversation about this, I propose that we speak in terms of estimated cost per match. To compute this, I'd assume it'd involve estimating travel costs to the two geographically closest district events[1] then dividing by 24. Then we can compare this to your actual cost per match at your regionals from last year.

DCMP is, to me, more comparable to your CMP cost as, for many lower resourced teams, it's the culminating event of the season.

[1] From my research, most teams tend to go to the nearest districts if they only attend 2 events. If the area is dense enough to fill up it likely warrants an additional district.

There is one issue with comparing it by cost per match, just because it is cheaper for each match doesn't mean it is cheaper in total. Districts are cheaper by cost per match, but actually more expensive in total in some cases, example below:

Regional
Local regional - 1st registration fee + no travel costs
Travel regional - 2nd registration fee + travel costs

District
Local district - 1st registration fee + no travel costs
Travel district - no registration fee + travel costs
DCMP - 2nd registration fee + travel costs

In the district scenario the total cost ends up being more because the team has to travel twice instead of once. This is not the case for all teams and obviously assumes they qualify for the DCMP. 2363 always had to travel twice and that won't change by moving to the district model so our costs will end up being equivalent.

Lil' Lavery

23-06-2015, 11:41

Champs MUST rotate to VCU for equity's sake.
Why must the minority of teams be catered to for "equity's sake?" The population central of teams in the district is far closer to the MD site than Richmond/VCU. Having the DCMP there makes a lot more sense for the district as a whole, even if it's not ideal for some teams. Why not leave it near the population center for utility's sake?

Yes, there are teams that end up paying more in travel costs when they move from one regional competition to competing two, three, or fours times in a district system. It really shouldn't be as surprising or as controversial that competing in more events ends up costing more money to sparsely located teams.

Also, competing at the DCMP is not a requirement. Technically, you don't even have to compete at two district events (though your initial registration fee buys you into two of them). You can still compete with a comparable travel budget to a regional system, if you so chose.

PayneTrain

23-06-2015, 11:50

You shouldn't be asking if it solves inequity of travel costs. You should be asking does this make it worse most teams. There will always be inequity of travel costs and Districts can either exacerbate it, be approximately neutral, or be better. I'd like to see us at least make an effort to be neutral for the majority of teams.

I guess, more importantly, we shouldn't be whining about inequity of travel but instead we should be figuring out how to help teams most negatively impacted by these changes.

There will perpetually be some give and take with district event locations. MAR is commonly in a situation where the population center of teams is not what many consider an acceptable distance from most events. It appears the case may be that Chesapeake districts may bias too much towards the population center of teams, which can stunt growth and potentially damage team presence in other areas. There is probably a litany of reasons that the Hampton Roads area isn't stacked with FRC teams like it probably should be when you consider the industry there, but a reason that wouldn't be out of the question would be the lack of an official FRC event in a top 40 MSA, a distinction it shares with around 5 others, a situation being rectified this coming season.

I think Chesapeake's setup is more favorable to all teams than other district setups when it comes to balancing distances and therefore travel for all teams, but adding an event around Charlottesville / Waynesboro / Staunton / Harrisonburg / Winchester or along the 95 corridor in Central to North Central VA would be a solid move. I imagine a "tentative" bias towards locations in NoVA stem from the willingness to work with facilities that have been used in official and unofficial capacities in the past. For instance, I hope the Patriot Center stays on as a district location because while it was a pretty pathetic regional location it could easily be the best district location in the system.

Andrew Schreiber

23-06-2015, 11:51

There is one issue with comparing it by cost per match, just because it is cheaper for each match doesn't mean it is cheaper in total. Districts are cheaper by cost per match, but actually more expensive in total in some cases, example below:

Regional
Local regional - 1st registration fee + no travel costs
Travel regional - 2nd registration fee + travel costs

District
Local district - 1st registration fee + no travel costs
Travel district - no registration fee + travel costs
DCMP - 2nd registration fee + travel costs

In the district scenario the total cost ends up being more because the team has to travel twice instead of once. This is not the case for all teams and obviously assumes they qualify for the DCMP. 2363 always had to travel twice and that won't change by moving to the district model so our costs will end up being equivalent.

I guess the TL;DR - I don't care about 2 regional teams when they complain that they have to travel to their second district since the OVERWHELMING majority already have to travel and their costs for the part of the season that everyone gets (districts) will likely go down approximately $4000. I've included 2014 data backing my claim that a large percentage of teams attending only one event and incur travel costs already.

Of the 1258 (46%) teams that attended only one regional in 2014[1] (2709 total teams), 577 (~46% of the 1258) traveled more than 40 miles and thus likely incurred some sort of travel cost (likely hotel stay) for their first event. The big thing I'm trying to get at is that for many teams a single event is ALREADY incurring travel costs and we should be trying to locate districts to minimize that number when locating events.

Edit- I'm more than willing to provide json dumps of my data should you want to recreate it/play with it.

Edit2 - In case anyone is curious, there ARE who attend 2+ regionals and were within 40 miles of both, here's your list: [333, 353, 369, 371, 623, 907, 1230, 1389, 1796, 2421, 2964, 4456, 4464]

[1] This is the last year I have data handy for.

PayneTrain

23-06-2015, 12:02

I guess the TL;DR - I don't care about 2 regional teams when they complain that they have to travel to their second district since the OVERWHELMING majority already have to travel and their costs for the part of the season that everyone gets (districts) will likely go down approximately $4000. I've included 2014 data backing my claim that a large percentage of teams attending only one event and incur travel costs already.

Of the 1258 (46%) teams that attended only one regional in 2014[1] (2709 total teams), 577 (~46% of the 1258) traveled more than 40 miles and thus likely incurred some sort of travel cost (likely hotel stay) for their first event. The big thing I'm trying to get at is that for many teams a single event is ALREADY incurring travel costs and we should be trying to locate districts to minimize that number when locating events.

Edit- I'm more than willing to provide json dumps of my data should you want to recreate it/play with it.

Edit2 - In case anyone is curious, there ARE who attend 2+ regionals and were within 40 miles of both, here's your list: [333, 353, 369, 371, 623, 907, 1230, 1389, 1796, 2421, 2964, 4456, 4464]

[1] This is the last year I have data handy for.

Not for nothing, but Matt Wilson, Matt Lythgoe, and myself all operate out of Virginia where over 2/3rds of teams only compete at one regional, according to my weird document of area statistics I updated earlier in the year.

It's also probably worth noting that both 1086 and 2363 do help and have relationships with teams who are these one event only teams. Teams the size of 422, 1086, and 2363 will likely rise to the challenge of extra fundraising necessary to continue operating in the new system but it's worthwhile to raise concerns for the teams who may have no idea any of this is even happening.

FrankJ

23-06-2015, 12:12

notmattlythgoe

23-06-2015, 12:17

I guess the TL;DR - I don't care about 2 regional teams when they complain that they have to travel to their second district since the OVERWHELMING majority already have to travel and their costs for the part of the season that everyone gets (districts) will likely go down approximately $4000. I've included 2014 data backing my claim that a large percentage of teams attending only one event and incur travel costs already.

Of the 1258 (46%) teams that attended only one regional in 2014[1] (2709 total teams), 577 (~46% of the 1258) traveled more than 40 miles and thus likely incurred some sort of travel cost (likely hotel stay) for their first event. The big thing I'm trying to get at is that for many teams a single event is ALREADY incurring travel costs and we should be trying to locate districts to minimize that number when locating events.

Edit- I'm more than willing to provide json dumps of my data should you want to recreate it/play with it.

Edit2 - In case anyone is curious, there ARE who attend 2+ regionals and were within 40 miles of both, here's your list: [333, 353, 369, 371, 623, 907, 1230, 1389, 1796, 2421, 2964, 4456, 4464]

[1] This is the last year I have data handy for.

I 100% agree with you. My point was, using cost-per-match to say that districts are cheaper is incorrect. However, I think we can both agree that you can use the cost per match to evaluate the value of a district event. Even if you can only afford to go to a single district event you get more value from the event than you do from travelling to a single regional.

Georgia is also going to districts. Highly likely for 2016. Near certainty 2017. This is going to make it extremely difficult for our southeast friends that are not going to the district model to attend 2 events. It also means regional in SC & NC will be sort of land locked surrounded by districts. Sorry for the semi off topic semi rant.

I believe I've heard that NC is in talks to go to districts in a similar fashion to Indiana.

Thad House

23-06-2015, 12:23

Coming from the PNW, I will say that moving the district championship to an area with many less teams actually nets out to costing more teams more money. In 2014, our championship was in Portland. That meant about 12 teams did not have travel costs. This year, they move the championship to Spokane. This increased the travel time for all but 4-5 teams, and actually cost more teams money, since there were less teams in the local area. You really do want the district championship in the most densely populated area of the district. That way if there are teams that need help raising money, its less teams, which should be easier to find money for. Ideally, we would have our championship in Seattle, but the venues in Seattle are not ideal for a championship, and people love the venue we have here in Portland.

notmattlythgoe

23-06-2015, 12:25

Andrew Schreiber

23-06-2015, 12:29

I 100% agree with you. My point was, using cost-per-match to say that districts are cheaper is incorrect. However, I think we can both agree that you can use the cost per match to evaluate the value of a district event. Even if you can only afford to go to a single district event you get more value from the event than you do from travelling to a single regional.

I believe I've heard that NC is in talks to go to districts in a similar fashion to Indiana.

Honestly, my goal with cost per match wasn't to prove it was cheaper. It was so we were talking the same units. If your 10k figure includes DCMP and travel costs to it it's not comparable to one that doesn't.

notmattlythgoe

23-06-2015, 12:35

Honestly, my goal with cost per match wasn't to prove it was cheaper. It was so we were talking the same units. If your 10k figure includes DCMP and travel costs to it it's not comparable to one that doesn't.

Correct. Let's look at one that doesn't include DCMP:

Single Regional - registration fee + travel costs

District 1 - registration fee + no travel costs
District 2 - no registration fee + travel costs

In this situation it should basically come out to even, but if you have to travel twice because there isn't a district event close to you then the cost goes up compared to a single regional. However, you still have the option to only go to one district event, and you still get an increase in value by doing this.

Thad House

23-06-2015, 12:35

Couldn't you just have 2 District Championships?

We only have about 150 teams. About 75-90 in the Seattle Area. about 30-40 more in the portland area, and the rest are spread out, with about 15 located in the spokane area.

Here is a map of the district and its teams. The red dot is spokane, the green dot is portland. Its about a 6.5 hour drive between the 2. Seattle to portland is about a 3.5 hour drive, Seattle to Spokane is about a 5 hour drive.

http://imgur.com/V4gC06f

I can't figure out why the image is not showing up, so here's a link. http://imgur.com/V4gC06f

notmattlythgoe

23-06-2015, 12:37

We only have about 150 teams. About 75-90 in the Seattle Area. about 30-40 more in the portland area, and the rest are spread out, with about 15 located in the spokane area.

Here is a map of the district and its teams. The red dot is spokane, the green dot is portland. Its about a 6.5 hour drive between the 2. Seattle to portland is about a 3.5 hour drive, Seattle to Spokane is about a 5 hour drive.

http://imgur.com/V4gC06f

:cough: 2 champs joke :cough:

Qbot2640

23-06-2015, 12:38

Georgia is also going to districts. Highly likely for 2016. Near certainty 2017. This is going to make it extremely difficult for our southeast friends that are not going to the district model to attend 2 events. It also means regional in SC & NC will be sort of land locked surrounded by districts.

I believe I've heard that NC is in talks to go to districts in a similar fashion to Indiana.

NC is confirmed for an "Indiana style" small district system in 2016. I foresee expanding that district to include SC in the future. From the rumors I've heard, SC was approached early on to join, but resisted...this may or may not be true. GA could also expand, but I'm not close to any of the discussions there.

More toward the original topic - I am liking the thought of two Virginia district events within reasonable driving distance of Northern NC...giving us some potential options for inter-district 3rd events!

PayneTrain

23-06-2015, 12:40

:cough: 2 champs joke :cough:

He's 3 hours behind on the joke, cut him some slack.

notmattlythgoe

23-06-2015, 12:41

NC is confirmed for an "Indiana style" small district system in 2016. I foresee expanding that district to include SC in the future. From the rumors I've heard, SC was approached early on to join, but resisted...this may or may not be true. GA could also expand, but I'm not close to any of the discussions there.

More toward the original topic - I am liking the thought of two Virginia district events within reasonable driving distance of Northern NC...giving us some potential options for inter-district 3rd events!

You know what is also within reasonable driving distance to Northern NC?

:cough: Rumble in the Roads (http://www.rumbleintheroads.com) :cough:

Andrew Schreiber

23-06-2015, 13:26

Correct. Let's look at one that doesn't include DCMP:

Single Regional - registration fee + travel costs

District 1 - registration fee + no travel costs
District 2 - no registration fee + travel costs

In this situation it should basically come out to even, but if you have to travel twice because there isn't a district event close to you then the cost goes up compared to a single regional. However, you still have the option to only go to one district event, and you still get an increase in value by doing this.

There's really a couple other scenarios we should look into, compare, and then see how many teams meet them.

First we need to look at the current state. For 1 or 2 regional teams (3+ regional teams are already an outlier and it makes the scenarios explode) there's 5 states they could be in:

A.Single Regional w/o travel cost
B.Single Regional w/ travel cost
C.Double Regional w/ no travel costs
D.Double Regional w/ 1 travel cost
E.Double Regional w/ 2 travel costs

I'm also conveniently claiming that travel to location A approximately equivalent to location B. I'm fairly confident that this assumption will hold relatively true for local (ground based) travel.

From there we have 3 states they can transition to (I'm ignoring the single district scenario because I think it's a bad scenario and should be actively discouraged):

F.Districts w/o travel cost
G.District w/ 1 travel cost
H.District w/2 travel costs

So, in theory there's 15 different scenarios we need to look at. Of these the following are more than likely cost neutral:

A -> F
B -> G

The following would be cost saving:

B -> F
C -> F
C -> G (assumes local travel cost < $4000)
D -> F
D -> G (assumes local travel cost < $4000)
E -> F
E -> G
E--> H

And the following are increasing cost:

A -> G
A -> H
B -> H
C -> H
D -> H

The next step, which I haven't done, is to find which percentages of teams in your district are in each of these transition groups and ensure you are benefiting the majority.

The big concerns for me are the ones in the A -> G, A -> H and B -> H transition groups because these are already incredibly vulnerable teams.

Lil' Lavery

23-06-2015, 14:12

The big concerns for me are the ones in the A -> G, A -> H and B -> H transition groups because these are already incredibly vulnerable teams.

If the tentative district event placements hold, there will be no teams moving from category A to G or H, as the existing regional areas are all playing host to a new district event.

Andrew Schreiber

23-06-2015, 14:24

If the tentative district event placements hold, there will be no teams moving from category A to G or H, as the existing regional areas are all playing host to a new district event.

It also more or less precludes the (C, D , E) -> H transitions. Leaving only the B -> H transition as a possible in this district. And I'd be willing to bet that it's a very small number of teams in that situation. (if any)

Also, I'm not Payne Train.

TDav540

23-06-2015, 15:57

Why must the minority of teams be catered to for "equity's sake?" The population central of teams in the district is far closer to the MD site than Richmond/VCU. Having the DCMP there makes a lot more sense for the district as a whole, even if it's not ideal for some teams. Why not leave it near the population center for utility's sake?

Yes, there are teams that end up paying more in travel costs when they move from one regional competition to competing two, three, or fours times in a district system. It really shouldn't be as surprising or as controversial that competing in more events ends up costing more money to sparsely located teams.

I think that there isn't any significant way to feasibly reduce the travel costs for teams in Western Virginia and the Hampton Roads area (possibly only exception a second district in Hampton Roads). However, I still believe that, ideally, all teams would have to travel only once within their district. Obviously this isn't possible, as Western VA provides the exception. But I think it would be fair to have the teams in the DC metro area travel for the District Championship. If they had to only travel for the District Championship at VCU (since the other events are nearby and within driving distance), then the Central Virginia and Metro DC area teams would only have to travel one time before Worlds. To help the Hampton Roads teams and some Northern VA teams, the future 8th and 9th district events should be thrown in the Winchester and Norfolk areas. This would ensure that the fewest number of teams possible have to travel twice in the region.

TLDR: In order to make the equity of travel better (hence making team growth easier), the district championship should be at VCU at least 50% of the time.

Lil' Lavery

23-06-2015, 16:03

I think that there isn't any significant way to feasibly reduce the travel costs for teams in Western Virginia and the Hampton Roads area (possibly only exception a second district in Hampton Roads). However, I still believe that, ideally, all teams would have to travel only once within their district. Obviously this isn't possible, as Western VA provides the exception. But I think it would be fair to have the teams in the DC metro area travel for the District Championship. If they had to only travel for the District Championship at VCU (since the other events are nearby and within driving distance), then the Central Virginia and Metro DC area teams would only have to travel one time before Worlds. To help the Hampton Roads teams and some Northern VA teams, the future 8th and 9th district events should be thrown in the Winchester and Norfolk areas. This would ensure that the fewest number of teams possible have to travel twice in the region.

TLDR: In order to make the equity of travel better (hence making team growth easier), the district championship should be at VCU at least 50% of the time.

You didn't answer my question. Why should a minority of teams be catered to in the name of "equity," when the most utility is provided by hosting the DCMP nearer to the population center?

This also isn't even touching on financial and scheduling concerns between the various venue options. We don't know for a fact that VCU is even an option for the appropriate weekends for a DCMP (6 or 7).

connor.worley

23-06-2015, 16:15

You didn't answer my question. Why should a minority of teams be catered to in the name of "equity," when the most utility is provided by hosting the DCMP nearer to the population center?

If I'm reading his post correctly, for the sake of program growth in underrepresented areas. I still think having events near population centers is more important.

TDav540

23-06-2015, 16:24

PayneTrain

23-06-2015, 16:39

You didn't answer my question. Why should a minority of teams be catered to in the name of "equity," when the most utility is provided by hosting the DCMP nearer to the population center?

This also isn't even touching on financial and scheduling concerns between the various venue options. We don't know for a fact that VCU is even an option for the appropriate weekends for a DCMP (6 or 7).

The calendar has opened up for those weeks in the past, and the event was on the VCU calendar until FIRST quietly pushed out that the 2015 kickoff would fall on January 9th, pushing the whole season back a week. The dates would be a Week 6 event any other year (like next year). And unless circumstances have changed, finances are not an issue at VCU.

There is something to be said about equality vs balance, which are not always the same thing. District system implementation is meant to cover a number of objectives, and under the spectrum of event location should exist a fulcrum that balances two objectives that can inherently oppose each other. In this case, balance should be found between "growing in underrepresented areas" and "adequately serving existing teams".

I am of the opinion that the locations that have been proposed do balance out pretty well, but YMMV.

PayneTrain

23-06-2015, 16:40

Regardless, there is no reason (besides convenience and a little break) that a Week 5 championship couldn't occur. Most teams in the state will be playing in Week 4 events anyway.

Please don't give the steering committee ideas like that.

Lil' Lavery

23-06-2015, 16:59

If I'm reading his post correctly, for the sake of program growth in underrepresented areas. I still think having events near population centers is more important.

Yes that was what I was going for.

I agree with you in a general sense that this is important. However, in this case, it isn't like Central VA doesn't have a large number of teams; it's the second largest in team density.

See, here's my disconnect from that viewpoint. The DC metro area still has potential for growth as well. There's only 13 teams in DC for more than 40 high schools in the city. Not to mention the massive population advantage DC (both as a city and metro area) has over Richmond. Putting the DCMP in the DC metro area still allows for plenty of growth in the Chesapeake District, as well as serving the greatest utility towards existing teams and providing a venue with the more exposure.

Regardless, there is no reason (besides convenience and a little break) that a Week 5 championship couldn't occur. Most teams in the state will be playing in Week 4 events anyway.
Compressing the district schedule down that far would make finding venues significantly more challenging, and make the competition season incredibly fast paced/strenuous. I would definitely not recommend a week 5 DCMP. MAR has also seen significantly lower DCMP attendance acceptance rates when there's not a week between the final districts and DCMP.

The calendar has opened up for those weeks in the past, and the event was on the VCU calendar until FIRST quietly pushed out that the 2015 kickoff would fall on January 9th, pushing the whole season back a week. The dates would be a Week 6 event any other year (like next year). And unless circumstances have changed, finances are not an issue at VCU.
Changing to a district format means, by default, that circumstances have changed. Funding has to be allocated to all sorts of things that previously were not the responsibility of the district. Not to mention, just because a regional existed at a venue previously does not automatically mean is was a financially healthy scenario (look into the MAR presentations when the MAR district was announced regarding the cost of the venues for Philadelphia and Trenton).

PayneTrain

23-06-2015, 17:10

Changing to a district format means, by default, that circumstances have changed. Funding has to be allocated to all sorts of things that previously were not the responsibility of the district. Not to mention, just because a regional existed at a venue previously does not automatically mean is was a financially healthy scenario (look into the MAR presentations when the MAR district was announced regarding the cost of the venues for Philadelphia and Trenton).

Last I heard, the venue cost for the Siegel Center was a number that rhymes with zero.

TDav540

23-06-2015, 17:15

See, here's my disconnect from that viewpoint. The DC metro area still has potential for growth as well. There's only 13 teams in DC for more than 40 high schools in the city. Not to mention the massive population advantage DC (both as a city and metro area) has over Richmond. Putting the DCMP in the DC metro area still allows for plenty of growth in the Chesapeake District, as well as serving the greatest utility towards existing teams and providing a venue with the more exposure.

Okay, that makes sense. Regardless, I still think they should have more events in Central/Eastern Virginia to help with the travel. Hopefully they'll expand there soon once more teams are formed.

notmattlythgoe

23-06-2015, 17:37

I'm actually happy that the DCMP is being held at UM. We have thoroughly the regional there the past 2 years. It also isn't increasing our amount of travel any compared to previous years.

AGPapa

23-06-2015, 18:01

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F3IhA6wftY
This presentation projects that it'll cost about 60K for a district event and 140-260K for the DMCP.

Compare this to MAR (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxSZxzUXh_hZV25NNE45ajJyNlk/view), which spends about 22K for a district event and 65K for the DCMP. Why are the costs so different? I understand that MAR is getting the venue for the DCMP for pretty cheap, but why are district events expected to be much pricier than in MAR?

Changing to a district format means, by default, that circumstances have changed. Funding has to be allocated to all sorts of things that previously were not the responsibility of the district. Not to mention, just because a regional existed at a venue previously does not automatically mean is was a financially healthy scenario (look into the MAR presentations when the MAR district was announced regarding the cost of the venues for Philadelphia and Trenton).

Do you happen to have a link to those presentations?

Nate Laverdure

23-06-2015, 18:11

This presentation projects that it'll cost about 60K for a district event and 140-260K for the DMCP.

Compare this to MAR (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxSZxzUXh_hZV25NNE45ajJyNlk/view), which spends about 22K for a district event and 65K for the DCMP. Why are the costs so different? I understand that MAR is getting the venue for the DCMP for pretty cheap, but why are district events expected to be much pricier than in MAR?
Excellent question. Without proof, I predict that these are the major drivers of the cost differences you've identified between here and MAR:

It hasn't been stated explicitly, but it appears that FIRST Chesapeake proposes to purchase professional event management services, e.g. those from Show Ready Events.
It hasn't been stated explicitly, but it appears that FIRST Chesapeake proposes to continue to fund 3 Regional Director-level positions, even after the 1-year transitional support from FIRST for these positions is eliminated.

mrmummert

23-06-2015, 18:18

More than likely our team will probably go to the Hampton Roads district event
which will likely be about a hour away. Central will be like VCU has been in the past. Its about a hour and a half away for us. (we're in Franklin)Teams like 1908 on the Eastern Shore and 388 in far western Virginia
will have a hard time getting to district events. (although not ideal for 388 having a district event in the Blacksburg area puts them closer to home than Richmond has been.) Those two teams struggled this past season just to get to their Regional. Team 1598 is even further west than we are and will have to travel about as far to two events as they did to the one regional in Richmond...they are actually closer to Raleigh, NC (where the NC regional is/ was held) than any of the locations for the Va. district events.

Luckly some Va. teams like 422, 1086, 2363 and ourselves have traveled to two
regionals the past couple of years and have a better handle on the costs. (1086, 2363 and our team attended both VCU and Chesapeake this year. We're a little tiny team. 422, 1086 and 2363 are much larger.

mrmummert

23-06-2015, 18:22

Excellent question. Without proof, I predict that these are the major drivers of the cost differences you've identified between here and MAR:

It hasn't been stated explicitly, but it appears that FIRST Chesapeake proposes to purchase professional event management services, e.g. those from Show Ready Events.
It hasn't been stated explicitly, but it appears that FIRST Chesapeake proposes to continue to fund 3 Regional Director-level positions, even after the 1-year transitional support from FIRST for these positions is eliminated.

Nate don't forget the start up costs for the first year also. I think they are talking about buying two fields and the extra parts and equipment for them.
I would suspect that the next year costs might be lower.

PayneTrain

23-06-2015, 18:22

Foster

23-06-2015, 18:44

Disclamer: I don't have a dog in this fight other than to say I think the Chesapeake District Champs should be at the Naval Academy since that is an amazing venue. So feel free to click through my profound thoughts to the next person.

Background music "The times they are a changing" (www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7qQ6_RV4VQ)

The 1/2 champs are coming. The push to districts is even more than it was 6 months ago. State and regional organizations are working hard to do their best with funds, times, venues and geography to pull things together.

"It's too far, too disperse, too expensive, no pit space, no corndogs at that venue", and on and on. Litany that I've heard with every other district. But the events happen and life goes on. And so far, the districts that have come to life have been wonderful. I think it's cool that MD and VA got together. Hey WVa, whats up? Going to Ohio?

I'm happy to see all the energy and ideas and great thoughts. Pivot off of CD, find your nearest district person and go "Hey, gallons of blood sweat and tears here for you to use".

You are starting to see lots of "done deals" here. For those of you that are not in a done deal, sign up now to help shape it to what you think it should be (oh bring sponsor money, that makes your voice louder).

For those of you currently in a "done deal" that screws your team, sign up to help on the next go around. Oh yea, and you too should also bring sponsor dollars.

For some of you FRC is going to cost more. For some of you it will cost less. Travel more / travel less. But pay attention, districts / states is the way of the future, regional events are going away, 1/2 champs is here to stay for awhile.

I'm all good for sitting in a room remembering how it was. Much happier sitting in a room going "Love this change, how can we build on it"

But the times are a changing, with you, or against you, they are a changing.

Qbot2640

23-06-2015, 18:53

You know what is also within reasonable driving distance to Northern NC?

:cough: Rumble in the Roads (http://www.rumbleintheroads.com) :cough:

I would really love that...but right now, I'm living three hours away from my team, and from the event we host, and after doing THOR I'm exhausted! Too much weekend commuting!

notmattlythgoe

23-06-2015, 19:12

I would really love that...but right now, I'm living three hours away from my team, and from the event we host, and after doing THOR I'm exhausted! Too much weekend commuting!

Pssshhhh that is totally a valid reason. 3 hours? Dear lord.

GaryVoshol

23-06-2015, 20:41

"Build it and they will come." FiM found this to be true when they created a district event in Traverse City (one of the original district locations). There was growth in teams in the northern Lower Peninsula and in the Upper Peninsula at that time.

Later it turned to, "Since they came, we will build it." There finally is an event in the UP at Escanaba.

Far-flung areas have travel costs - and always have had. But Districts can lessen those costs for teams, because travel may be a shorter distance.

And as was previously noted, a team can choose to attend just one event and thus keep costs the same.

kjohnson

23-06-2015, 21:15

If I remember correctly from a Hampton Roads district meeting with VirginiaFIRST staff, VCU was ruled out as host for the 2016 DCMP due to a scheduling conflict, not with the venue, but around the venue. The streets will be closed that Saturday morning for a race (5K or marathon of some kind) and teams would be unable to get to the venue.

For those discussing costs, I worked this spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hOkAko50PZqgJZsIl4FHsgK5NLbFET34W5It_yGYWoA/edit?usp=sharing) up a few months ago. It is estimating registration, travel, and food costs for our small team that typically travels with 15 or less students/mentors total. A few assumptions include event locations, Saturday/Sunday district events, and my knowledge of our costs such as sharing of buses and number of hotel rooms and meals required.

TL;DR: Costs for our small team are approximately $7,800 less for a two district system versus a two regional system. Other teams will of course have varying costs.

TDav540

23-06-2015, 21:58

More than likely our team will probably go to the Hampton Roads district event
which will likely be about a hour away. Central will be like VCU has been in the past. Its about a hour and a half away for us. (we're in Franklin)Teams like 1908 on the Eastern Shore and 388 in far western Virginia
will have a hard time getting to district events. (although not ideal for 388 having a district event in the Blacksburg area puts them closer to home than Richmond has been.) Those two teams struggled this past season just to get to their Regional. Team 1598 is even further west than we are and will have to travel about as far to two events as they did to the one regional in Richmond...they are actually closer to Raleigh, NC (where the NC regional is/ was held) than any of the locations for the Va. district events.

We'll see how it goes. There are a lot of teams in VA that get a tougher road. It's not going to help growth in those areas in the short term. However, having an event at all in Western Virginia helps.

Obviously, the current system favors MD/DC/North-VA, which right now makes sense. However, I do think at some point the planning committee will need to increase focus in the other parts of the district.

Lil' Lavery

23-06-2015, 22:14

Do you happen to have a link to those presentations?

Here's what I could still find. Video.
https://www.anymeeting.com/webconference-beta/RecordingDefault.aspx?c_psrid=E950DC808549

dag0620

24-06-2015, 15:55

I understand that MAR is getting the venue for the DCMP for pretty cheap, but why are district events expected to be much pricier than in MAR?

Nate touched on it in his post for VA/MD specifics but it's the same reason a NE, MAR, PNW, IN, and MI average District event costs are vastly different; local leadership has a lot of flexibility in what their district events will be like. Types of venues chosen, professional vs volunteer A/V, show elements, and professional event support such as ShowReadyEvents are all items that local leadership decides on. There's vastly different opinions on what is and isn't needed to run a district event. As long as that exists, and there isn't set standards, there will be differences between average DE cost between the regions. Same pretty much applies to DCMP.

Nathan Streeter

24-06-2015, 16:46

The concentration of 5 events (including the champs) in one small geographic location concerns me. Those teams could attend all their events and not have to travel.

Here is how I see a typical non-NOVA/DC/MD team trying to deal with the districts.
--1 event will be local (not sure if this will be true. They have not confirmed that geography will be a factor in adding teams to events)

--1 event will be a non-local event more than 2 hours away. travel will be required.

-- Champs. will require travel.

-- Worlds. Will require travel.

"Build it and they will come." FiM found this to be true when they created a district event in Traverse City (one of the original district locations). There was growth in teams in the northern Lower Peninsula and in the Upper Peninsula at that time.

Later it turned to, "Since they came, we will build it." There finally is an event in the UP at Escanaba.

Far-flung areas have travel costs - and always have had. But Districts can lessen those costs for teams, because travel may be a shorter distance.

And as was previously noted, a team can choose to attend just one event and thus keep costs the same.

From my impression/experience in New England with districts, I think it's better to have the events shifted slightly towards favoring the 'rural' or 'low-density' teams compared to what the 'FRC population density' might indicate.

The teams in high-density areas should all be able to attend one event very close to them (<20-40min travel)... they will then need to travel some amount to get to the second event (30-80min).

The teams in low-density areas should be able to attend one event fairly close to them (20-60min travel). They will then need to travel to get to their second event (45-120min).

Teams in high-density areas are accustomed to needing to drive further to get places; teams in low-density areas are accustomed to shorter distances. BUT low-density areas will need events brought to them in order to start to flourish at all... See Gary's 'If you build it, they will come' quote. As examples from New England, especially note what has happened to Maine since 2012/2013. UMass Dartmouth will hopefully be the beginning of something similar in SE Mass. I hope that NEFIRST and local teams can get something similar happening in VT and Central/Northern NH. Generally to fill up these 'outpost' events, higher-resources teams (perhaps from high-density areas) will need to travel further to them for their 2nd or 3rd plays. Even if official direction hasn't been given, high-resource teams will help fill them up...

The DCMP should approximately follow the population center. The teams that are good enough to qualify for the DCMP will generally be able to make things work to get there (particularly if the region makes an effort to help them and be understanding).

Note, district event or DCMP locations may seem weird at first, but wait a year or two for the district to get its feet underneath itself. Be the change!

Lil' Lavery

24-06-2015, 17:43

What Nathan suggested appears to be what the Cheapeake District has done with their tentative district placement. They have events tentatively placed in southeast and southwest Virginia, despite a lower proportion of teams in those areas. There are still a couple corners of Virginia where teams will have to travel, but getting an event near the Tennessee/Kentucky borders would be unrealistic and unnecessary.

The DCMP is near the population center of the district.

GaryVoshol

24-06-2015, 19:39

The teams in low-density areas should be able to attend one event fairly close to them (20-60min travel). They will then need to travel to get to their second event (45-120min).

Well, not quite. Houghton still is 3 hours from their nearest event at Escanaba. Then it's 7 hours (in good weather) to the next closest at Traverse City. (Michigan is a BIG state. It's farther from Detroit to Houghton than it is from Detroit to Baltimore, MD.)

Nathan Streeter

25-06-2015, 10:50

Well, not quite. Houghton still is 3 hours from their nearest event at Escanaba. Then it's 7 hours (in good weather) to the next closest at Traverse City. (Michigan is a BIG state. It's farther from Detroit to Houghton than it is from Detroit to Baltimore, MD.)

Yeah, unfortunately Michigan and the PNW (being broader geographical areas) have a harder time keeping districts close to teams...

Even in New England (which collectively is about 75% as large by area as Michigan, and obviously lacks the isolated effect of the UP) there are tough situations for teams... The most remote team in Vermont (2370 from Rutland) currently has to drive 2hr, 18min and 2hr, 35min to get to their two closest districts. The most remote team in Maine (5122 from Old Town) has to drive 1hr, 53min and 3hr, 8min to their two closest districts.

That obviously doesn't even include teams that don't even exist in the most remote large population centers (let alone more remote areas). A team in Caribou, ME would have to drive 4.5hr and 6hr to get to two districts... Teams in Burlington, VT (the center of the most populous region in VT) would have to travel 3hr to get to their first two districts.

Unfortunately, FRC still hasn't reached far enough into the rural areas of the country... Note though, that this gets better with districts (not worse!) because expensive, large Regionals aren't even feasible in a lot of the regions we can legitimately discuss hosting a district event.

Mr V

25-06-2015, 12:44

The unfortunate fact of moving to the district system is that it is not financially fair to all teams. The most remote teams, particularly those who have traditionally only attended one Regional will most likely have their budget impacted negatively. It is even worse if they move on to the DCMP and the fact is that their chances of doing so are pretty good.

For teams that have traditionally attended two Regionals, particularly those from the team dense areas their costs can go down if they don't move on to DCMP or stay about the same if they do.

Keep in mind that District events are two day events and they usually have a load-in inspection day preceding the actual event days. Because nothing other than inspection and maybe the driver's meeting happens the first evening you can get away with less than the full team attending. That means that you can get away with only 1 night of hotels for part of the team in some cases and 2 for some of the team, so the hotel budget per event should go down purely based on the number of nights. Also note that in general the hotels are less expensive in the outlying areas than in the larger cities where Regionals have been traditionally held. In some cases the cost has been half of what I paid for a room at the Regional I used to travel to.

So yes the cost of transportation will almost certainly go up but between the fewer days and often less expensive hotels the cost of accommodations is not necessarily going to go up for attending two district events that require travel vs one travel regional. However the likelihood is that a large percentage of teams will be able to attend one District event w/o having to travel.

The other factor is that depending on the events in your area the net time away from school or work will stay the same or go down, 2 District events vs 1 Regional. The typical Regional was Thur-Sat meaning two missed days while District events are Fri-Sat or some times Sat-Sun meaning a total of 2 missed days or less.

Overall however the benefit of the District system is huge. Teams that have traditionally only been able to attend a single event now get to answer that question of "if we make these changes how will it perform" or they will finally be prompted to say "what can we do to improve our performance" when they never sat down and had that conversation before. I call it getting the full engineering experience. In real engineering there is usually some sort of ongoing testing and refining until the product/solution if finalized. With FRC the real world testing is the event, yes practice and testing at your shop is beneficial but the fact is none of us really, truly knows how the game will play out overall until we get to an event. This impact is usually greater on those teams from the outlying areas because they typically do not have access to a practice field or teams that they can do at least some form of scrimmage with.

The other thing to consider is that far more teams have a chance to move on to a higher level. I've seen many cases where a community, particularly those outlying areas, have really rallied behind a team when they come to the community and say "we've qualified for the next level". I've heard of teams raising most of the cost of the DCMP entry fee in one night and on very short notice in a very small school in a very small town. Hopefully that is something that will have a lasting impact on the community and the team's finances.

Tl/DR: Yes the financial impact can hit the teams from outlying areas harder but the teams from the outlying areas typically see a greater benefit from the district system.

notmattlythgoe

25-06-2015, 12:58

The unfortunate fact of moving to the district system is that it is not financially fair to all teams.

The regional system isn't fair either.

Christopher149

25-06-2015, 13:17

bearbot

07-07-2015, 16:03

Cant wait for Chesapeake District events going to miss the team that come from overseas.

ehfeinberg

07-07-2015, 18:48

I just thought I would post the slide in the presentation showing the driving distance to the district championship overlayed with the 2015 team map.

http://i.imgur.com/BteVQoa.jpg?1

Each ring is apparently 1 hour out from the district championship at UMD.

Lij2015

09-07-2015, 21:32

PayneTrain

09-07-2015, 22:03

I will be very surprised if 388 will only have to drive 5 hours to UMD

Yeah, it's probably close to 7 for Grundy.

Gotta wonder what's going to happen to a team like theirs where they're no better or worse off competing in NC instead of VA with respect to distance to events, and FTC has as close as FTC can get to a foothold in that part of the state.

:/

Lil' Lavery

10-07-2015, 01:42

I will be very surprised if 388 will only have to drive 5 hours to UMD

They are clearly outside the 5 hour line by a significant margin.

notmattlythgoe

10-07-2015, 07:40

Ugh, the name and logo are so bad.

wilsonmw04

10-07-2015, 08:27

Ugh, the name and logo are so bad.

+1

Hallry

10-07-2015, 09:00

Ugh, the name and logo are so bad.

Something I've learned while competing in MAR: Districts are built by the volunteers that step up to the plate. Rather than just complaining about the name and logo, why not offer a better solution? Based on the information presentation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F3IhA6wftY), it sounded like they got the name after asking the area's teams to send in suggestions. So while that probably won't change, why not create a logo yourself to offer as a replacement? I'm eager to see what you come up with.

notmattlythgoe

10-07-2015, 09:10

Something I've learned while competing in MAR: Districts are built by the volunteers that step up to the plate. Rather than just complaining about the name and logo, why not offer a better solution? Based on the information presentation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F3IhA6wftY), it sounded like they got the name after asking the area's teams to send in suggestions. So while that probably won't change, why not create a logo yourself to offer as a replacement? I'm eager to see what you come up with.

http://i.imgur.com/ywHV8nc.png

http://i.imgur.com/HCGdJYR.png

http://i.imgur.com/h3n5rru.png

Credit for the logos goes to Nate Laverdure

I will admit that I did not send in a suggestion for a name, which I regret. But sticking with the concept they seem to have been going for on the name something better would have been "FIRST on the Chesapeake." FIRST Chesapeake just sounds like a partial name, and not a name for a region.

Nate Laverdure

10-07-2015, 09:20

I want to see a logo that makes the District of Columbia look like the FIRST logo's blue diamond.

Hallry

10-07-2015, 09:25

(/snip) Credit for the logos goes to Nate Laverdure

I like 'em; they're much cleaner than the logo shown in the information presentation: http://i.imgur.com/aXYHBvZ.png.

I would certainly hope that the Steering Committee would be open to possible logo alternatives.

notmattlythgoe

10-07-2015, 09:27

I like 'em; they're much cleaner than the logo shown in the information presentation: http://i.imgur.com/aXYHBvZ.png.

I would certainly hope that the Steering Committee would be open to possible logo alternatives.

And that's even ignoring the fact that the one from the presentation is actually in violation of the FIRST Brand Standards.

wilsonmw04

10-07-2015, 09:55

And that's even ignoring the fact that the one from the presentation is actually in violation of the FIRST Brand Standards.

noticed that as well. Sent an email about it a few days ago.

Christopher149

10-07-2015, 10:24

Hallry

10-07-2015, 10:42

And that's even ignoring the fact that the one from the presentation is actually in violation of the FIRST Brand Standards.

Though, it's not much different from the FIM logo (http://firstinmichigan.org/Images/FIRST_in_MI_banner.jpg).

Actually, it looks like the PNW logo (http://pnwfirst.org/wp/files/PNW-FIRST-Standalone-Logo-Green-e1422917272822.jpg) also goes against the FIRST Branding and Design Standards (http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/FRC_Communications_Resource_Center/Branding_and_Logos/FIRST_BrandGuidelines_web.pdf) by putting the FIRST logo on top of graphic shapes, and the Indiana logo (http://www.indianafirst.org/images/logo.png) may also violate them by altering the triangle in the logo. Additionally, it looks like the New England (http://massmutualcenter.s3.amazonaws.com/img/FIRST-Robotics-Spotlight.jpg) logo might be in violation for improper alignment of the name "FIRST" and the FIRST logo.

The only district logo that does not seem to go against the Branding and Design Standards is the MAR (http://www.midatlanticrobotics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Mar_Logo.png) logo, which does not use the name "FIRST" or the FIRST logo anywhere at all.

notmattlythgoe

10-07-2015, 10:50

Actually, it looks like the PNW logo (http://pnwfirst.org/wp/files/PNW-FIRST-Standalone-Logo-Green-e1422917272822.jpg) also goes against the FIRST Branding and Design Standards (http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/FRC_Communications_Resource_Center/Branding_and_Logos/FIRST_BrandGuidelines_web.pdf) by putting the FIRST logo on top of graphic shapes, and the Indiana logo (http://www.indianafirst.org/images/logo.png) may also violate them by altering the triangle in the logo. Additionally, it looks like the New England (http://massmutualcenter.s3.amazonaws.com/img/FIRST-Robotics-Spotlight.jpg) logo might be in violation for improper alignment of the name "FIRST" and the FIRST logo.

The only district logo that does not seem to go against the Branding and Design Standards is the MAR (http://www.midatlanticrobotics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Mar_Logo.png) logo, which use the name "FIRST" or the FIRST logo anywhere at all.

The PNW logo doesn't violate it because there are far fewer restrictions on the wordmark part of the logo as there are of the icon.

Indiana might also get away with it because by changing the triangle it is actually no longer the FIRST logo.

However, anything that uses one or the other is technically a violation too.

Qbot2640

10-07-2015, 10:59

Should have called it "FIRST District in Chesapeake", then you could all put:

"Member FDIC" after your team number.

notmattlythgoe

10-07-2015, 11:00

Should have called it "FIRST District in Chesapeake", then you could all put:

"Member FDIC" after your team number.

Gold. Hire this guy to choose names from now on.

TDav540

10-07-2015, 11:33

Should have called it "FIRST District in Chesapeake", then you could all put:

"Member FDIC" after your team number.

Stan where are you! We need this name!

Kevin Leonard

10-07-2015, 11:48

Stan where are you! We need this name!

Personally, I liked "FIRST on the Chesapeake", but thats just me. :P

notmattlythgoe

10-07-2015, 11:50

Personally, I liked "FIRST on the Chesapeake", but thats just me. :P

Right? FIRST Chesapeake sounds like a company name and not a description of a region. I get what they were going for, I just think they missed the mark a bit.

wilsonmw04

10-07-2015, 12:52

My favorite was FIRST DMV ;)

ParkerMak

10-07-2015, 13:02

I still think FAMED (FIRST Atlantic Mid-East District) was the way to go.

AGPapa

10-07-2015, 13:20

We have FIM, MAR, NE, PNW and IN as our current districts with GA, NC and "FIRST Chesapeake" coming next year. Kind of a mouthful, what acronym are we going to use for the Chesapeake district area?

Nate Laverdure

10-07-2015, 13:21

Washington FIRST Robotics (https://www.firstwa.org/) isn't really using its name anymore, right? We could use that.

We have FIM, MAR, NE, PNW and IN as our current districts with GA, NC and "FIRST Chesapeake" coming next year. Kind of a mouthful, what acronym are we going to use for the Chesapeake district area?
The abbreviation for FIRST Chesapeake is 'CHE'.
http://i.imgur.com/1DJ7kIQ.jpg

Kevin Leonard

10-07-2015, 13:41

Washington FIRST Robotics (https://www.firstwa.org/) isn't really using its name anymore, right? We could use that.

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BNjI5NDY3MzYxMV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNTYwMDU5Mg@@._ V1_SY317_CR5,0,214,317_AL_.jpg

The "DC Area District" or DCAD? :P

AGPapa

10-07-2015, 14:51

The "DC Area District" or DCAD? :P

Washington FIRST Robotics (https://www.firstwa.org/) isn't really using its name anymore, right? We could use that.

I don't think the area should be renamed (I actually kind of like the name). I just think we need a convenient shorthand when writing it so it doesn't seem out of place in lists with the other districts. Something like "FC" or "CSPK". I don't know what's best. Were there any abbreviations used for the Chesapeake regional?

notmattlythgoe

10-07-2015, 14:52

I don't think the area should be renamed (I actually kind of like the name). I just think we need a convenient shorthand when writing it so it doesn't seem out of place in lists with the other districts. Something like "FC" or "CSPK". I don't know, were there any abbreviations used for the Chesapeake regional? It's event code is "mdcp", but I don't think "CP" is clear enough.

I think you just end up going with FC, although I think FOC would have been better for "FIRST on the Chesapeake"

PayneTrain

10-07-2015, 16:04

I mean for what it's worth FIRST violates their branding standards and flaunts those violations at Champs. Haven't seen any official logo.

EDIT: never mind, I saw it. It's nothing I didn't expect.

PayneTrain

10-07-2015, 17:26

If we're posting things, here's something that wasn't considered or ever received.

The FIRST Colonial Region celebrates the heritage of the United States while looking to the future.

http://a.lucar.io/files/gusvjy.png

The eight stars represent the 8 original events the region will begin with. 7 districts, and one championship. The cannonade in the center represents one of the major technical achievements used in the Revolutionary War. The gear on the outside is... self explanatory. I picked faded shades of traditional FIRST colors because well, the crayola colors looked gross.

In addition, each of the 8 events received a variant of the logo. Here is the first one I found, the Capital District.

http://a.lucar.io/files/xpqchw.png

One thing that has always annoyed me about the district system is how names are so easily dropped and added because a district moved 5 miles east or west. The area has a very rich history and very distinguishable parts that make up the region, so these distinct districts get distinct names. As long as the district stayed in the general area, the name wouldn't change. The Old Line District (western MD) and the Harbor District (eastern MD) are in Maryland, The Capital District is in DC, and Virginia has the Metro (NoVA), Shenandoah (Western VA), Commonwealth (Central VA), and Dominion (eastern VA) Districts.

For the championship, the logo is gold because... well, because.

http://a.lucar.io/files/jtdcnv.png

Nate Laverdure

10-07-2015, 17:56

The FIRST Colonial Region celebrates the heritage of the United States while looking to the future.
Cannon and gear are OK but you need more smokestack and anchor. :)

Lil' Lavery

10-07-2015, 17:56

I feel the need to clarify something. "Districts" are not individual events, but rather the entire area that is districted together into the competition structure. Michigan is a district. The Pacific Northwest is a district. DC, Maryland, and Virginia comprise the FIRST Chesapeake District.

Individual competitions are simply events. Look at the nomenclature used here (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/regional-events). PNW has posted their schedule, with events named using this format:
"PNW District - Auburn Mountainview Event"
I can guarantee you this is consistent with at least last year's naming system as well.

PayneTrain

10-07-2015, 18:13

mrmummert

10-07-2015, 19:14

We have FIM, MAR, NE, PNW and IN as our current districts with GA, NC and "FIRST Chesapeake" coming next year. Kind of a mouthful, what acronym are we going to use for the Chesapeake district area?

We just simply call it (if Brandon doesn't mind ) CD.

You could have Ches D or CBD (Chesapeake Bay District)

One idea i told Kyle Johnson was....
You take the outline of a Chesapeake Bay Skipjack (look it up if you
don't know what that is.) put that to the left. The Skipjack is well known
to this area if you were born and raised near the water. Then have the
First logo to the right and Chesapeake just below the First logo.

Or do like MD. First did and have a robotic crab.

mrmummert

10-07-2015, 19:22

http://www.cambridgemainstreet.com/uploads/images/SkipjackRace2013_4skips_2354_4web.jpg

http://www.jammadesigns.com/beach.metal.wall.art/skipjack.wall.art.sail.boat.art.jpg

Mr V

10-07-2015, 22:25

Washington FIRST Robotics (https://www.firstwa.org/) isn't really using its name anymore, right? We could use that.

The abbreviation for FIRST Chesapeake is 'CHE'.
http://i.imgur.com/1DJ7kIQ.jpg

My business card, those of the Washington FIRST Robotics staff, the building known as the Fieldhouse and all the equipment in that building disagree with the fact that WFR does not use that name any more.

Washington FIRST Robotics is the official, legal, registered name of the non profit organization that is responsible for all 4 FIRST programs in the state of Washington and for running the PNW District of WA, OR and AK.

While we are the PNW District we are not using PNW FIRST any longer. It caused some confusion with donors and sponsors.

My thought is that the official FIRST TLA for the new Chesapeake district will be CPK.

Nate Laverdure

10-07-2015, 23:01

My business card, those of the Washington FIRST Robotics staff, the building known as the Fieldhouse and all the equipment in that building disagree with the fact that WFR does not use that name any more. Sorry, I didn't mean any disrespect :)
Washington FIRST Robotics is the official, legal, registered name of the non profit organization that is responsible for all 4 FIRST programs in the state of Washington and for running the PNW District of WA, OR and AK.

While we are the PNW District we are not using PNW FIRST any longer. It caused some confusion with donors and sponsors. That's VERY interesting to me, as VirginiaFIRST seems to be following the exact same process. Two things are striking:

The VirginiaFIRST administration has explained that FIRST has mandated the "FIRST + <local flavor>" naming scheme for all newly-forming districts. If you "are not using PNW FIRST any longer", then maybe you guys aren't being held to this same standard? Or you decided to reject the standard? Or maybe the naming scheme isn't really mandatory in the first place?
It seems to me that when an organization is attempting to represent the needs of 2 or more uniquely-named places, then the organization shouldn't be named for only 1 of those places. I don't think I would be comfortable with the arrangement, if (say) I were a MD or OR team. How does your organization make sure the Oregonians and Alaskans are appropriately represented in the decision-making processes?

I recently asked the FIRST Chesapeake admin team this question:
http://i.imgur.com/1CGj0B5.png

Is it the same story for WFR? The WFR board just didn't make a determination that an overarching PNW organization was necessary?

wilsonmw04

11-07-2015, 08:01

The change in name of the non-profit can be as easy as changing the "also doing business as:" portion of there tax documentation.

Mr V

11-07-2015, 12:19

Sorry, I didn't mean any disrespect :)
That's VERY interesting to me, as VirginiaFIRST seems to be following the exact same process. Two things are striking:

The VirginiaFIRST administration has explained that FIRST has mandated the "FIRST + <local flavor>" naming scheme for all newly-forming districts. If you "are not using PNW FIRST any longer", then maybe you guys aren't being held to this same standard? Or you decided to reject the standard? Or maybe the naming scheme isn't really mandatory in the first place?
It seems to me that when an organization is attempting to represent the needs of 2 or more uniquely-named places, then the organization shouldn't be named for only 1 of those places. I don't think I would be comfortable with the arrangement, if (say) I were a MD or OR team. How does your organization make sure the Oregonians and Alaskans are appropriately represented in the decision-making processes?

I recently asked the FIRST Chesapeake admin team this question:
http://i.imgur.com/1CGj0B5.png

Is it the same story for WFR? The WFR board just didn't make a determination that an overarching PNW organization was necessary?

It is best explained by this excerpt from PWNFIRST.org.

"Washington FIRST Robotics has a close partnership with Oregon FIRST Robotics. Our states run independent boards. Last year, we were using the moniker PNW FIRST. This created unity for our District, but is also causing some confusion with our donor community. Creating yet another entity for them to think about did lead to some issues.

Washington FIRST Robotics is the legal entity which has fiduciary responsibility for the PNW District and is signing the contracts. We are very sensitive to the fact that a third of our District is based in Oregon, and that our District Championship is in Portland in 2016. We are one big happy District. Currently there is not a 501(c)3 in Oregon who is responsible for the FRC program. That is being worked on.

Essentially WFR is caught in the political middle in respect to the name of the organization and at it is best to make the donor community happy and not confuse them since they provide the funds to make the PNW district happen.

Lil' Lavery

12-07-2015, 22:36

That's not necessarily true. Formatting for these events has never been uniform. For what it's worth though, I don't really care.

The formatting for these events on the FIRST webpage was 100% uniform last season. I can guarantee that.

notmattlythgoe

13-07-2015, 09:08

If we're posting things, here's something that wasn't considered or ever received.

http://a.lucar.io/files/gusvjy.png

http://a.lucar.io/files/xpqchw.png

http://a.lucar.io/files/jtdcnv.png

I do like these a lot, but I agree with Nate. I fee like there needs to be an anchor and some smoke stacks in there somewhere ;)

JesseK

13-07-2015, 09:29

The change in name of the non-profit can be as easy as changing the "also doing business as:" portion of there tax documentation.

I somewhat agree.

The thing that stuck out to me in the responses to questions email that came out last week was that the individual entities must be maintained in order to keep continuity in the non-FRC programs. If that's the case, then the charters & by-laws of the individual programs may need to be re-written once a new entity is stood up, or if the predominant role of one of the entities no longer includes FRC. It all depends on how the charter/by-laws were written to begin with. Otherwise the non-profits are no longer performing their stated duty and would be subject to auditing, long questionnaires from state & federal entities, etc.

Seems to me like there is a lot of time in the year, but most of this year's time has been allocated to finding equipment rather than structuring the organization. This has pros & cons, and I really hope it doesn't wind up hamstringing things down the road.

notmattlythgoe

13-07-2015, 10:56

PayneTrain

13-07-2015, 12:42

I do like these a lot, but I agree with Nate. I fee like there needs to be an anchor and some smoke stacks in there somewhere ;)

I feel like the best representation of the Hampton Roads area is an artist's depiction of the 'Nam-style flashbacks I get when driving east into the HRBT or driving west when goes I-64 from 4 lanes to 2 about 10 miles too early.

RKazmer

13-07-2015, 12:51

I feel like the best representation of the Hampton Roads area is an artist's depiction of the 'Nam-style flashbacks I get when driving east into the HRBT or driving west when goes I-64 from 4 lanes to 2 about 10 miles too early.

A picture of Bridge Tunnels with corks on both ends?

Honestly, maybe the outline of any of the many ships that are built at the shipyard (Carrier specifically), or something having to do with shipbuilding would be appropriate.

notmattlythgoe

13-07-2015, 12:58

Lil' Lavery

13-07-2015, 13:36

Our new logo suggestions have been sent off to VAFIRST. Will, I suggest you send yours in too.

I also like some of the names you've come up with for the "districts", maybe send those in as event name suggestions.

Other Hampton Roads Event name ideas:
Ironclad District Event
Monitor Merrimack District Event
Shipyard District Event
Once again, the "district" is the entire area going into the district format. New England is a district. Mid-Atlantic Robotics is a district. FIRST Chesapeake is a district.

The correct nomenclature for your suggestions would be:
"FIRST Chesapeake District Ironclad Event"
"FIRST Chesapeake District Monitor Merricmack Event"
"FIRST Chesapeake District Shipyard Event"

notmattlythgoe

13-07-2015, 14:43

Once again, the "district" is the entire area going into the district format. New England is a district. Mid-Atlantic Robotics is a district. FIRST Chesapeake is a district.

The correct nomenclature for your suggestions would be:
"FIRST Chesapeake District Ironclad Event"
"FIRST Chesapeake District Monitor Merricmack Event"
"FIRST Chesapeake District Shipyard Event"

Which is why I put district in quotes and called them events. Calm down Sean.

Nate Laverdure

13-07-2015, 14:44

Once again...
"Correct" nomenclature is fun and all, Sean, but to be fair that standard has only been extant for 1 year (http://www.thebluealliance.com/event/2014njfla).

PayneTrain

13-07-2015, 15:04

It's also still not a true standard because to my knowledge there is no official documentation on how to name events, but my apathy towards the discussion is at critical mass.

We can rag on the logo, name, nomenclature, and the road infrastructure that the VDOT gods abandoned, but the unique financial decisions the district is making in its infancy aren't exactly promising. There is a $41k operating cost per district that seems to imply that assets that could be valuable to own through a use of capital are instead being rented, like generators, tables and chairs, radios and A/V equipment. There is some confusion since the presentation slides said that there would be a $19k/event capital outlay for the first year but the $19k per/130-160k capital investment figure isn't in the Q&A. Also, since calculating the depreciation of folding chairs isn't in my wheelhouse, I honestly don't know whether or not rental or ownership is the more fiscally responsible move. I would like to know at least what exactly is being considered. If I remember, I'll ask this question or someone else can.

The district also seems to prioritize spending money on hiring A/V crews and even DJs for all district events instead of turning these positions over to volunteers. Choosing to continue to fund all 3 RD positions while not buying field borders is not something I'm a huge fan of, but my opinion carries as much weight in the offices in the SMV basement as a Glad bag of antimatter. Field borders can actually be a source of income for a district instead of making them a recurring expense, but whatever.

Hallry

13-07-2015, 17:15

"Correct" nomenclature is fun and all, Sean, but to be fair that standard has only been extant for 1 year (http://www.thebluealliance.com/event/2014njfla).

You just had to link to that event... :rolleyes:

TDav540

14-07-2015, 17:26

Has anyone heard any news about where and which week the districts will be?

wilsonmw04

14-07-2015, 21:36

Has anyone heard any news about where and which week the districts will be?

They don't know that because they don't have the sites figured out yet.

dag0620

15-07-2015, 11:13

"Correct" nomenclature is fun and all, Sean, but to be fair that standard has only been extant for 1 year (http://www.thebluealliance.com/event/2014njfla).

And IMHO not the best nomenclature that should be applied either.

North Sailor

17-07-2015, 09:32

I think the sentiment here is pretty common over the last few pages of the forum discussion. The identity of the region and districts is very important. Generally speaking the logo and identity presented at the town hall meeting was disappointing to the greater community. It isn't that the name FIRST Chesapeake is bad, but it needs to be presented in a way that remains professional while celebrating the unique history of our region. There has been some discussion of suggested graphics. While this may not be the place, I would support a small committee for branding the region. While I have been on hiatus as a mentor for ILITE over the last two years, I would gladly bring together those interested and a professional graphics background to put together a more organized proposal for the identity of the region and district events.

As I prefer not to work in isolation and would like this to best represent as large a community of the region as possible, I am open to all interested in aiding in the discussion. Message me, if this kind of meeting is of interest.

Kevin Pardus

19-07-2015, 17:46

They don't know that because they don't have the sites figured out yet.

Maybe they are trying to get a District Event scheduled and approved to take place during 'Week 0.5', so the Palmetto Regional will not be all alone during that competition week.

wilsonmw04

19-07-2015, 18:00

Maybe they are trying to get a District Event scheduled and approved to take place during 'Week 0.5', so the Palmetto Regional will not be all alone during that competition week.

I think that would be a mistake. It also doesn't go with what FIRST said when announcing the Palmetto event. Palmetto would be the exception and not the rule.

TDav540

19-07-2015, 18:21

Maybe they are trying to get a District Event scheduled and approved to take place during 'Week 0.5', so the Palmetto Regional will not be all alone during that competition week.

No in the original webcast about the district, they stated that one competition would be week 1 and two competitions on week 2-4. Probably 1 in VA and 1 in MD/DC each week, with Week 1 being a VA district. I'd bet that one is probably the northern VA one; it allows the most teams to access it within a reasonable time, making week 1 possible for many more teams.

Kevin Pardus

19-07-2015, 20:15

I think that would be a mistake. It also doesn't go with what FIRST said when announcing the Palmetto event. Palmetto would be the exception and not the rule.

No in the original webcast about the district, they stated that one competition would be week 1 and two competitions on week 2-4. Probably 1 in VA and 1 in MD/DC each week, with Week 1 being a VA district. I'd bet that one is probably the northern VA one; it allows the most teams to access it within a reasonable time, making week 1 possible for many more teams.

You both are taking this all way too serious. PNW has posted their event schedule, but they are the only current district region to do so. FIRST Chesapeake is doing just as good as the other remaining district regions (MAR-NE-FiM-IN-NC) so far, nothing officially posted.

There are 9-1/2 weeks until 1st District/Regional Event Registration Opens at Noon on 24 Sept.

wilsonmw04

19-07-2015, 20:32

FIRST Chesapeake is doing just as good as the other remaining district regions.

I wonder...

PayneTrain

19-07-2015, 20:34

You both are taking this all way too serious. PNW has posted their event schedule, but they are the only current district region to do so. FIRST Chesapeake is doing just as good as the other remaining district regions (MAR-NE-FiM-IN-NC) so far, nothing officially posted.

There are 9-1/2 weeks until 1st District/Regional Event Registration Opens at Noon on 24 Sept.

What are you even talking about? Venues and dates get announced when they get announced. That had nothing to do with what they were talking about.

Nate Laverdure

17-08-2015, 18:31

FIRST Chesapeake August Town Hall
Tonight at 7pm eastern time (26 minutes from now)
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/first-chesapeake-august-town-hall-tickets-18096981559
https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/c6fnufbnlhq3mer6tv7psu6l3r8

JOClarke

17-08-2015, 18:52

5 minutes and counting:ahh:

JOClarke

17-08-2015, 18:56

2 minutes and counting:ahh:

JOClarke

17-08-2015, 19:03

7:05 and nothing anybody getting anything yet:eek:

Nate Laverdure

17-08-2015, 19:19

Warning, may contain errors

3/4-6 Battlefield HS Haymarket, VA SS
3/11-13 Blacksburg HS Blacksburg, VA SS
3/11-13 Walt Whitman HS Bethesda, MD SS
3/18-20 Churchland HS Portsmouth, VA SS
3/17-19 Harford Technical HS Aberdeen, MD SS
3/24-26 Meadow Event Park Doswell, VA FS
3/24-26 South River HS Edgewater, MD FS
4/7-9 XFINITY Center College Park, MD FSS

notmattlythgoe

17-08-2015, 19:52

http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/Node_Page/images/1314029819767.png

Michael Kaurich

17-08-2015, 20:06

Warning, may contain errors

3/4-6 Battlefield HS Haymarket, VA SS
3/11-13 Blacksburg HS Blacksburg, VA SS
3/11-13 Walt Whitman HS Bethesda, MD SS TENTATIVE
3/18-20 Churchland HS Portsmouth, VA SS
3/18-20 Harford Technical HS Aberdeen, MD SS
3/24-26 Meadow Event Park Doswell, VA FS
3/24-26 South River HS Edgewater, MD FS
4/7-9 XFINITY Center College Park, MD TFS

Made some edits to the schedule.

NOTE: Woodrow Wilson High School is an option for Week 2, 3/11-13, if confirmation for Walt Whitman is not made as conversations are on going.

PayneTrain

18-08-2015, 01:10

http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/Node_Page/images/1314029819767.png

what did people miss?

notmattlythgoe

18-08-2015, 07:34

what did people miss?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmneE_KUYf0

My takeaways:
1. Logo feed back has been given to the company that made the logo, but in general the crappy logo is staying the crappy logo.
2. "Host Team" = sells concessions.
3. Most of this info could have been done in an email.
4. The teams in our district have no idea how districts work.
5. Pipe and drape.

PayneTrain

18-08-2015, 11:27

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmneE_KUYf0

My takeaways:
1. Logo feed back has been given to the company that made the logo, but in general the crappy logo is staying the crappy logo.
2. "Host Team" = sells concessions.
3. Most of this info could have been done in an email.
4. The teams in our district have no idea how districts work.
5. Pipe and drape.

Par for the course; it all checks out.

Nathan Streeter

18-08-2015, 13:00

4. The teams in our district have no idea how districts work.

This was how it worked in New England too... until districts came. Even then it takes a season or so for people to really get it.

PayneTrain

18-08-2015, 13:04

This was how it worked in New England too... until districts came. Even then it takes a season or so for people to really get it.

I'll go look at the numbers, but I would hazard a guess that there is a higher % of teams in NE who went to two events pre-district system than there is in the DMV area.

Foster

18-08-2015, 13:27

I'm making an assumption that the people planning this have met with the NE, MI and MAR leadership to get lots of pointers on this process. I can't imagine there is lots of "reinvent the wheel" going on.

Bummed that there are not any "Eastern Shore" events, but I can see with the size of the district on why.

Lil' Lavery

18-08-2015, 13:41

There are only five teams in the eastern shore (2 VA, 3MD). Hard to justify an event there currently. Fortunately, it's not as isolated as the Upper Peninsula was when Michigan went to districts.

Christopher149

18-08-2015, 19:36

There are only five teams in the eastern shore (2 VA, 3MD). Hard to justify an event there currently. Fortunately, it's not as isolated as the Upper Peninsula was when Michigan went to districts.

Based on Ocean City, MD, (which seems most remote), it's only about 5 hours either way to get to the opposite side of the Chesapeake (with DC and several events within that trip). If you're trying to get to the Lower Peninsula of Michigan, it's over 5 hours just to get to the Mackinac Bridge from the far west end.

DRH2o

18-08-2015, 22:25

PayneTrain

18-08-2015, 22:26

The sad thing for us down in Southside VA ( The map created shows only one team, but there are are 6 within a ~50 mile radius ) is that we could travel to all events in NC easier than we can get to ANY event in our own district. I have expressed my concern with FIRST. NC wants us also -- just sayin

Would have been swell to bring NC teams into the fold with teams in the DMV area. Why that didn't happen is above my clearance.

DRH2o

18-08-2015, 22:31

Not sure if NC wanted to. I think they wanted to go with SC. We should have been carved out to go with NC as has been done other places. Would REALLY miss the GREAT VA Teams though. Just looking from it as a $$$ thing.

TDav540

19-08-2015, 00:39

The sad thing for us down in Southside VA ( The map created shows only one team, but there are are 6 within a ~50 mile radius ) is that we could travel to all events in NC easier than we can get to ANY event in our own district. I have expressed my concern with FIRST. NC wants us also -- just sayin

That really sucks. Raleigh is especially close to you guys too. Inter-district play will hopefully be more relevant down the line.

notmattlythgoe

19-08-2015, 08:03

That really sucks. Raleigh is especially close to you guys too. Inter-district play will hopefully be more relevant down the line.

I'm looking forward to the Inter-district play along with an 8th district event being added to FCPK. Having a home event on week 3 sucks right now, your choices are to compete back to back or fight for the limited spots at the week 1 event. I wish they had scheduled the single event week to be either week 2 or week 3 to alleviate some of these scheduling issues. I also wish I had seen this problem earlier so I could have brought it up in an early meeting. Who knows, maybe next year they will adjust the schedule to make up for this.

PayneTrain

19-08-2015, 09:08

I'm looking forward to the Inter-district play along with an 8th district event being added to FCPK. Having a home event on week 3 sucks right now, your choices are to compete back to back or fight for the limited spots at the week 1 event. I wish they had scheduled the single event week to be either week 2 or week 3 to alleviate some of these scheduling issues. I also wish I had seen this problem earlier so I could have brought it up in an early meeting. Who knows, maybe next year they will adjust the schedule to make up for this.

I sorta see the approach of having 1 week 1 event as trying to put out any fires that show up inherently with a week one event, but I'm someone who has learned to love the bomb. I'd appreciate 1 week 2 or 3 event, but that's above my clearance.

With the current competition season of 6-7 weeks, there are pros and cons to any of the schedule setups. Run the districts without a week gap before champs and you can put late qualifiers in a real bind. Run the whole system through week 7 and you put late qualifiers to the world champs in a bind. Compact the district schedule to finish the district season in 6 weeks AND give teams a week break between the districts and their championship, and you choke out flexibility for teams.

notmattlythgoe

19-08-2015, 09:24

I sorta see the approach of having 1 week 1 event as trying to put out any fires that show up inherently with a week one event, but I'm someone who has learned to love the bomb. I'd appreciate 1 week 2 or 3 event, but that's above my clearance.

With the current competition season of 6-7 weeks, there are pros and cons to any of the schedule setups. Run the districts without a week gap before champs and you can put late qualifiers in a real bind. Run the whole system through week 7 and you put late qualifiers to the world champs in a bind. Compact the district schedule to finish the district season in 6 weeks AND give teams a week break between the districts and their championship, and you choke out flexibility for teams.

I agree with both statements. I can understand why they did it the way they did it, but I do hope it is something that is thought about in future years. When an 8th event is eventually added we won't have the issue anymore and the same is true when inter-district play is introduced.

I appreciate that they are trying to cram the events in the first 4 weeks to provide some time between the District Championship and the World Championship. There are pros and cons of each way of doing it.

DRH2o

19-08-2015, 09:58

That really sucks. Raleigh is especially close to you guys too. Inter-district play will hopefully be more relevant down the line.

Greensboro is closer -- just 45 miles

TDav540

19-08-2015, 12:08

I'm looking forward to the Inter-district play along with an 8th district event being added to FCPK. Having a home event on week 3 sucks right now, your choices are to compete back to back or fight for the limited spots at the week 1 event. I wish they had scheduled the single event week to be either week 2 or week 3 to alleviate some of these scheduling issues. I also wish I had seen this problem earlier so I could have brought it up in an early meeting. Who knows, maybe next year they will adjust the schedule to make up for this.

Yeah, I feel for all the eastern VA teams. It's not a great draw. However, most of the teams competing for that week 1 event will be the teams that attend the week 3 events. So at pure randomness each team has ~35-40% chance of getting that event (because there are some teams that are local to Haymarket and will choose this one during 1st event registration), and it's higher if you're on the ball.

I imagine most teams that want a week 1/3 event list and don't dawdle with registration will be able to get what they want.

notmattlythgoe

19-08-2015, 12:17

Yeah, I feel for all the eastern VA teams. It's not a great draw. However, most of the teams competing for that week 1 event will be the teams that attend the week 3 events. So at pure randomness each team has ~35-40% chance of getting that event (because there are some teams that are local to Haymarket and will choose this one during 1st event registration), and it's higher if you're on the ball.

I imagine most teams that want a week 1/3 event list and don't dawdle with registration will be able to get what they want.

It's the problem of the 2 week 3 events trying to get into the 1 week 1 event. You'll have the home teams from the 2 week 3 events along with the home teams from the week 1 event all trying to get into the same 40 slots. It might not be an issue, but I hope the committee keeps this in mind when handing out the set of reserved registration slots for that week 1 event.

Alex2614

20-08-2015, 01:43

Will be interesting to see how our friends in western Maryland fare with this. Great news, though!

wilsonmw04

20-08-2015, 21:57

PayneTrain

14-10-2015, 02:38

Uhh, just dropping a line on here tonight before I forget.

I have not heard any news of Chesapeake blocking off hotel rooms for any event and a cursory look through the email blasts via Ctrl+F search didn't yield this nugget of news, but if you are attending the SWVA district, might want to book your rooms last week. If that's not possible, I'd try to do it NOW.

The Blacksburg/Christiansburg area does hold a couple significant events year round. The notorious ones (VT Football and Men's BBall) will not impact our competition in terms of any logistics. However, my job involves working with Virginia Swimming and various other swim agencies to host their events and I know that the Age Group Championships for the state will be at the Christiansburg Aquatic Center the same weekend. As is the case for our event, a vast majority of participants will be doing team travel into the area as there are very few (read: 1) major local swim clubs. However, most VA swim clubs are what I would call monolithic in nature and very sophisticated operations. They probably have entire hotel floors booked up and meals already tightly planned out.

If you are going to this event and you don't want to bus your kids in from Salem or something crazy, there is no time like the present to take care of this.

I don't know if this is information the entirety of FC is aware of or has published but at the very least an extra reminder to whoever sees this won't hurt.

fnsnet

15-10-2015, 00:25

PayneTrain

15-10-2015, 00:43

If others aren't already, they are now.

Yeah, thanks. I'm concerned about the teams who aren't super plugged in to stuff like this. Some of the larger FRC teams traveling (and definitely the swim teams) have the infrastructure to handle working from a hotel further away than the ideal, but the <10 student, <3 adult teams are ones I worry about.

wilsonmw04

15-10-2015, 01:25

Thanks for the heads-up, Will. We have secured our block of rooms. I wonder why this information had to come from you instead on VAFIRST.

JesseK

17-10-2015, 08:12

Wilson I dunno why there is so much silence from VA FIRST. I was told they wanted to take the lead on NCRA this year but we're almost half way through Fall semester and haven't heard anything, and NCRA is meant to be a place for teams to be able to have 1-on-1 talks with each other when they want them. Makes me want to send something anyways (though that'd be against the wishes of my team...). VA FIRST would probably say 'there's a newsletter', but some of the news breaks on CD or FIRST (emails) weeks before the newsletter - so the newsletter is 50% time late and often contains nothing of actionable value.

I will say that the planning committee meeting minutes are pretty detailed and show they're putting forethought into plenty of things. However, room blocking is not one of the things in the minutes. So it's worth it to send an email directly to FIRST.

Hopefully VA FIRST has their stakeholders outlined and in that outline 'teams' isn't represented by some nebulous insignificant block in a corner of the page. Teams have gone to plenty of events before, and have lots of experience in what makes a great experience versus mediocre experience. We also understand what sponsors we're most likely to engage with post-event and which ones we say 'hello' to and move on. I hope they engage more teams as part of this process moving forward.

PayneTrain

21-10-2015, 17:16

Got an email today asking to display gracious professionalism by shifting our registration to Hampton Roads or a Maryland event. Is this happening for anyone else for other events or in other districts?

wilsonmw04

21-10-2015, 18:26

PayneTrain

21-10-2015, 18:34

whaa?? why?

"Presently, there are more teams on the waitlist than spots available and there is still the possibility of late registering rookie teams."

wilsonmw04

21-10-2015, 18:43

"Presently, there are more teams on the waitlist than spots available and there is still the possibility of late registering rookie teams."

for what event? So, someone messed up and they want you to bail them out. nice.

PayneTrain

21-10-2015, 18:46

for what event? So, someone messed up and they want you to bail them out. nice.

Oh, it's for the Doswell event, that should have been more clear.

I was curious if other veterans had gotten the email besides me, I'm the alt for 422.

wilsonmw04

21-10-2015, 19:04

Nope. We haven't received anything. Was it your 1st or 2nd event?

PayneTrain

21-10-2015, 19:18

Nope. We haven't received anything. Was it your 1st or 2nd event?

First event. I'd be surprised if we were not the first or second team to register.

Not really keen on trying to get pushed out of our home event. We already are increasing travel this year.

wilsonmw04

21-10-2015, 21:56

Not really keen on trying to get pushed out of our home event. We already are increasing travel this year.

Agreed on both counts.

TDav540

21-10-2015, 22:04

First event. I'd be surprised if we were not the first or second team to register.

Not really keen on trying to get pushed out of our home event. We already are increasing travel this year.

I'm very surprised to see that, especially because it is your "home" event. If it were your second/farther event, it would be more understandable and acceptable. But as is it seems unfair at best.

wilsonmw04

21-10-2015, 22:21

I'm very surprised to see that, especially because it is your "home" event. If it were your second/farther event, it would be more understandable and acceptable. But as is it seems unfair at best.

shouldn't the teams coming from NOVA have been asked/urged to attend one of the 4 events in their area?

mrmummert

22-10-2015, 00:07

I know 1793 (Norview in Norfolk) is one of the wait listed teams for Doswell.
They signed up for Hampton Roads as their home event (as it should be). There are several more that still only list one event (1908 in Eastville, Northhampton High on the Eastern shore, 2107 in Portsmouth, 3168 in Suffolk and 3359 in Portsmouth (who is hosting Hampton roads) I don't know if this is because they haven't registered for a second one or they are wait listed. 388 way out in Grundy hasn't even registered for anything yet. From what i saw at the meeting last season during the VCU regional they weren't too happy about the whole district thing to begin with.

Oddly 1885 is coming to Hampton Roads and the DC event but not Northern Va. which they are hosting at their own school.

Electronica1

22-10-2015, 00:12

Oddly 1885 is coming to Hampton Roads and the DC event but not Northern Va. which they are hosting at their own school.

I know if I was hosting an event, the last thing I would want to do is attempt to host the event while competing at said event.

mrmummert

22-10-2015, 00:19

I know if I was hosting an event, the last thing I would want to do is attempt to host the event while competing at said event.

Yeah i can see the point of 1885 maybe doing that for that reason....but 1885 is one of the bigger teams. Then again 3359 is hosting and competing at Hampton Roads....BTW there isn't much in the way of food or lodging near Churchland High until you get a few miles from the school so be prepared.

wilsonmw04

22-10-2015, 00:32

PayneTrain

22-10-2015, 00:39

Yeah i can see the point of 1885 maybe doing that for that reason....but 1885 is one of the bigger teams. Then again 3359 is hosting and competing at Hampton Roads....BTW there isn't much in the way of food or lodging near Churchland High until you get a few miles from the school so be prepared.

When I was scouting out all the events I think the northern Maryland event was around a half hour to the closest hotel group. EDIT: That's for a district in North Carolina, all CHS Events have hotels around 15 minutes away.

I'm pretty sure 388 will not be competing this year, but I have not heard an up-or-down on that yet.

I've sorta spent tonight trying to guess who is on the waitlist for the event. As much as people may think I enjoy coming off as a knob, I gotta say that even reasonable and kind people would think this is not great.

A team should not be expected/asked to drop out of their home event and therefore be forced into traveling to 2 districts and potentially 2 championship events, just so someone else who didn't make registration a priority only has to travel to 1 or even zero districts. While the term "sacrifice" has been held over my head re: the district system before, this is not exactly what was advertised. It feels even worse knowing that other teams at the same event did not get the same email 422 got, and "gracious professionalism" was used in an effort to coerce us to fix a mistake we cannot afford to fix, be it directly in financing another additional trip or indirectly in damaging the relationships with parents, alumni, school, and sponsors.

I really want to know if other teams at the event got the same message or if a message of this nature has been sent out to other teams in other district systems before this.

P.J.

22-10-2015, 01:02

I really want to know if other teams at the event got the same message or if a message of this nature has been sent out to other teams in other district systems before this.

I don't know for sure, as I am no expert by any means, but I don't think many other FIRST in Michigan people will be perusing this thread so I'll toss in my experience. But in my 7 years in a district system I have never heard of a situation like this arising. Especially at a home district, as those are guaranteed spots.

EricH

22-10-2015, 01:10

I don't know for sure, as I am no expert by any means, but I don't think many other FIRST in Michigan people will be perusing this thread so I'll toss in my experience. But in my 7 years in a district system I have never heard of a situation like this arising. Especially at a home district, as those are guaranteed spots.

I've heard of it in regionals. Specifically, I've heard that a team that had attended a particular regional as their home regional since it (regional, not team--team predated regional) started was asked to go elsewhere to make room for an out-of-area rookie. I believe space was eventually found, but not at that team's expense. Bear in mind that this information is at minimum second-hand, and not from this year's registration. (I'm also going to note, briefly, that the CLOSEST ROOKIE team to the event, bar nobody, had to register for the second-closest event, a "hotel" event for them, and ended up not competing to my knowledge. That I know from looking at the team lists and being at both events! I don't know why, however.)

Navid Shafa

22-10-2015, 01:22

A team should not be expected/asked to drop out of their home event and therefore be forced into traveling to 2 districts and potentially 2 championship events, just so someone else who didn't make registration a priority only has to travel to 1 or even zero districts.

Agreed, wholeheartedly.

While the term "sacrifice" has been held over my head re: the district system before, this is not exactly what was advertised. It feels even worse knowing that other teams at the same event did not get the same email 422 got, and "gracious professionalism" was used in an effort to coerce us to fix a mistake we cannot afford to fix, be it directly in financing another additional trip or indirectly in damaging the relationships with parents, alumni, school, and sponsors.

I've heard Gracious Professionalism used in so many inappropriate scenarios. The usage of it in this situation is neither Gracious or Professional...

notmattlythgoe

22-10-2015, 06:18

A team should not be expected/asked to drop out of their home event...

Agreed completely, this is pretty messed up. It makes so much more sense to ask a team that is already travelling to the event to just travel the extra 2 hours to HR than it does to ask a home team to travel the two hours.

DaveL

22-10-2015, 06:28

The sad thing for us down in Southside VA ( The map created shows only one team, but there are are 6 within a ~50 mile radius ) is that we could travel to all events in NC easier than we can get to ANY event in our own district. I have expressed my concern with FIRST. NC wants us also -- just sayin

Keep asking. I don't see why FIRST would not let some small percent of teams to opt out of their district to compete in another district. If FIRST agrees to this, they may require your team to attend the district championship in that selected district.

North Sailor

22-10-2015, 07:12

I know if I was hosting an event, the last thing I would want to do is attempt to host the event while competing at said event.

I can confirm that this is the reason. As an added bonus we love the teams down in Hampton Roads!

Nate Laverdure

22-10-2015, 07:16

I really want to know if other teams at the event got the same message or if a message of this nature has been sent out to other teams in other district systems before this.
You should ask them (whoever sent the email) to do the GP thing and vsponsor your registration fee for the alternate event.

Anne Shade

22-10-2015, 07:57

PayneTrain

22-10-2015, 08:44

All,

Just to clarify, all teams registered for the Doswell event were sent the same email. The request was meant to find out if there were any teams currently registered at the event who were willing to move. No one is being forced to move.

As for the Northern Maryland events, there are over 10 hotels within a 15 minute drive of the venue and more within about a 20 minute drive. We are working with Experient to get reduced cost rooms. Hope to have them posted shortly.

There's another team in here registered for the Doswell event that says they didn't get the email, but they might have and it's hearsay, so whatever.

Not once have I ever suggested we were being forced out of the event. My understanding is that being forced from an event would result in me checking TIMS and seeing that the RD de-registered us from the event, if that even is something within the realm of possibility (which I doubt). Do I feel like the message I received attempted to guilt my team out of the event? Yes, I do, and I'm not the only person on my team who thinks that. Do I think that the invocation of "gracious professionalism" was at best poorly placed and in and of itself, counter to the ethos of gracious professionalism and at worst, totally unnecessary? Yes, I do, and I'm not the only person to think that either.

Once again, let me preface what I am about to say by assuring everyone I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here (probably doesn't help the case, but I'm rolling with it): if Chesapeake FIRST wants teams to make a large consideration to drop existing plans to go to an event, taking some bear minimum considerations themselves doesn't seem like a huge ask in return. Asking teams who are not close enough for it to be there "home event" first, then if possible and necessary, asking teams who registered for the event on a second go-round after that. I don't think this information is hard to acquire; if it isn't available through the RD end of TIMS to find out who is closest to the event, Google Maps would also work (at least, that's what I have used). If the organization came out in December and said "listen, we have a rookie team coming out of Richmond that would need a spot in Doswell to compete this season" that's an accommodation most teams would be willing to make. Asking to bail out another veteran team in October is different; for me at least.

On the whole, the situation seems pretty poorly communicated to me, but whatever.

On the hotel availability front with Experient, that's great! I don't recall this nugget of information being brought up in a newsletter or email blast, but I may be mistaken. Looking at all of my information, it looks like every location has hotels within 15 minutes; 20 with traffic. I was scouting for OOD registration at one point and noticed the 30 minute travel was associated with another event there, and incorrectly matched two bits of info.

We have already made hotel reservations for all events we plan to attend through a parent who works as a travel agent so it is not of much use to us. I hope that information is disseminated soon; as discussed earlier, there is a large travel swim meet in the same area the same weekend as the Blacksburg district. I am unaware if there are any other minor event conflicts at other locations.

346CADmen

22-10-2015, 08:55

Oh, it's for the Doswell event, that should have been more clear.

I was curious if other veterans had gotten the email besides me, I'm the alt for 422.

We received an email to that effect, I'm told
I feel the same way regarding “home” events. If the Doswell event is oversubscribed perhaps the future should include another event in the area.

notmattlythgoe

22-10-2015, 08:58

We received an email to that effect, I'm told
I feel the same way regarding “home” events. If the Doswell event is oversubscribed perhaps the future should include another event in the area.

The problem from having have a lot of teams from both HR and SWVA feeding into that one central event along with all of the Richmond teams that use it as their home event. Putting a second event between Richmond and HR or Richmond and SWVA could be a solution in the future. I have a feeling we'll have an 8th event next year with as close as we are pushing the limits this year.

JesseK

22-10-2015, 09:18

Yea ... we host a week 1 and then attending a week 2 & 3. Not ideal from a robot performance perspective, but it helps in that it sets expectations about robot design and functionality at the different milestones. Also gives us room to breathe before District Champs.

We're pretty excited to host the first VA district. Many of the region's best teams will be there, so it'll be great to watch with a front-row seat. My team is 30-35 minutes from my house, so no complaining about a 15 minute drive from the hotel ;)

Turns out that Doswell is during the tail end of the school's Spring Break, so limited access to the shop & robot in the week prior to the event would have been a killer. We did a team meeting about which 2nd event to attend, and the only absolute sway for a week 4 event came from the programmers (of course it would :D).

The problem from having have a lot of teams from both HR and SWVA feeding into that one central event along with all of the Richmond teams that use it as their home event. Putting a second event between Richmond and HR or Richmond and SWVA could be a solution in the future. I have a feeling we'll have an 8th event next year with as close as we are pushing the limits this year.

It'll be interesting to see how Kettering's back-to-back events work out. Since our districts are in high schools (afaik) I don't know if the same thing is plausible.

notmattlythgoe

22-10-2015, 09:29

Yea ... we host a week 1 and then attending a week 2 & 3. Not ideal from a robot performance perspective, but it helps in that it sets expectations about robot design and functionality at the different milestones. Also gives us room to breathe before District Champs.

We're pretty excited to host the first VA district. Many of the region's best teams will be there, so it'll be great to watch with a front-row seat. My team is 30-35 minutes from my house, so no complaining about a 15 minute drive from the hotel ;)

Turns out that Doswell is during the tail end of the school's Spring Break, so limited access to the shop & robot in the week prior to the event would have been a killer. We did a team meeting about which 2nd event to attend, and the only absolute sway for a week 4 event came from the programmers (of course it would :D).

It'll be interesting to see how Kettering's back-to-back events work out. Since our districts are in high schools (afaik) I don't know if the same thing is plausible.

That's an interesting option, I know smaller universities have some of the same issues that high schools have. CNU has been on our radar for a district event and the Rumble in the Roads for years, but getting them to give us their main gym has been difficult because they need it for practice. I can imagine trying to get it for multiple weekend would also be more difficult.

wilsonmw04

22-10-2015, 09:45

All,

Just to clarify, all teams registered for the Doswell event were sent the same email. The request was meant to find out if there were any teams currently registered at the event who were willing to move. No one is being forced to move.

I can confirm we got a bulk email yesterday. I overlooked it. It is worded as Anne stated.
EDIT: I received this email later in the evening. I saw it in my mail box this morning.

346CADmen

22-10-2015, 09:59

The problem from having have a lot of teams from both HR and SWVA feeding into that one central event along with all of the Richmond teams that use it as their home event. Putting a second event between Richmond and HR or Richmond and SWVA could be a solution in the future. I have a feeling we'll have an 8th event next year with as close as we are pushing the limits this year.

I'm sure the shakedown from first year issues will include review of event location vs subscription, to drive the location selections in subsequent years.
I think the District should consider reaching out to schools without teams as hosts. Allows those schools to build excitement thus possibly a team and eliminates the host vs compete scenario.

Lil' Lavery

22-10-2015, 10:05

Teams in MAR have been asked to switch events before.

With the information I've seen in this thread, I don't see anything that the CHP planning committee did out of line.

notmattlythgoe

22-10-2015, 10:07

Rookie numbers to date - 9.

Rookie plays(not including wait list):
NV - 0
DC - 2
HR - 5
SW - 3
NM - 3
CM - 4
CV - 1

notmattlythgoe

22-10-2015, 10:09

Teams in MAR have been asked to switch events before.

With the information I've seen in this thread, I don't see anything that the CHP planning committee did out of line.

I think the main issue people have is them using Gracious Professionalism as a way to guilt a team into switching. They could have also targeted non home event teams instead of a blanket request.

Lil' Lavery

22-10-2015, 10:20

I'm sure the shakedown from first year issues will include review of event location vs subscription, to drive the location selections in subsequent years.
I think the District should consider reaching out to schools without teams as hosts. Allows those schools to build excitement thus possibly a team and eliminates the host vs compete scenario.

In MAR, as far as I know, the host team has always competed at the event they run. In a couple cases, it has involved running a skeleton crew for their competition team. Generally, the hosts teams are among the larger teams and are capable of drawing in help from outside volunteers/other teams to staff positions so that their competition crew is still well staffed as well.

I see 1111 isn't registered to compete in their host event, either. I'm curious if CHP advised these teams to stay away form their own events, or each of these teams decided to be cautious on their own.

I think the main issue people have is them using Gracious Professionalism as a way to guilt a team into switching. They could have also targeted non home event teams instead of a blanket request.

Without knowing the exact wording, I think that's hard to say.

wilsonmw04

22-10-2015, 10:28

Without knowing the exact wording, I think that's hard to say.
from Sally Sylvester:
You are receiving this email because you are currently registered for the Central Virginia event in Doswell, VA. Presently, there are more teams on the waitlist than spots available and there is still the possibility of late registering rookie teams. If your team would consider moving your registration to either the Northern Maryland, Central Maryland or the Hampton Road event that would be a huge help in trying to even out the event registrations across the District. This ensures a fair distribution of points across the District. We are hoping a few teams will show Gracious Professionalism and move to an event that currently has openings. As communicated in the FIRST Chesapeake newsletter on September 21st, we aim to reach the minimum registration level at each event before allowing teams off of waitlists at other events. If you can move your registration to another event, please do so as soon as possible and please let me know your plans. Thanks for your consideration.

Lil' Lavery

22-10-2015, 10:36

Perhaps "graciousness" would be better substituted for GP there, but I see nothing unprofessional about that email. Certainly nothing to suggest anyone is being guilted into changing events.

JesseK

22-10-2015, 10:41

I see 1111 isn't registered to compete in their host event, either. I'm curious if CHP advised these teams to stay away form their own events, or each of these teams decided to be cautious on their own.

I don't know about what we were 'advised', but the majority of our team didn't think we'd be effective competitors if we were also volunteering/running the event. It could literally take two different team infrastructures to do both given the planning & execution involved.

wilsonmw04

22-10-2015, 10:45

Perhaps "graciousness" would be better substituted for GP there, but I see nothing unprofessional about that email. Certainly nothing to suggest anyone is being guilted into changing events.

interesting perspective, but you aren't being asked to move are you? I can see were someone could read into this that you are not showing GP by not moving.

The issue I have is that this is exactly what I feared would happen. Folks in VA are scrambling to minimize travel expenses. The demand for the central event should have been anticipated. This is why I suggested moving one of the NOVA/DC events farther south to Fredricksburg or New Kent/Williamsburg.

wilsonmw04

22-10-2015, 10:49

It could literally take two different team infrastructures to do both given the planning & execution involved.
How much are you involved in this? I was under the impression that CHP would be doing all the planning and execution, "hosts" would only provide manpower.

JesseK

22-10-2015, 11:25

How much are you involved in this? I was under the impression that CHP would be doing all the planning and execution, "hosts" would only provide manpower.

Don't underestimate what it takes to pull off an event that teams enjoy. Some spots in volunteering cannot be filled by students, so even with a big team we're still going to find volunteers. Other spots shouldn't be filled by students who can't handle egos. Then there are little things like
Parking estimation (especially on a SAT weekend)
Signage
Communication between volunteers
Load-in/out flow
Providing power to the room (understanding the outlet situation, etc),
Internet availability (streaming the event, FMS tweets/HQ comms, etc)
Understanding/testing available infrastructure (speakers, etc)
Where specifically volunteers should be in order to manage their portion of the event, etc.
Team social
Event coordinators need X, where do they go to get it? (liason, e.g.)

Competitively, certain adult roles are key to success in keeping students engaged throughout an event, so we really don't want anyone in those roles 'dual-hatted'. There are also some roles only fillable by adults at a typical event, though there are sometimes exceptions to this rule (buying/assembling team lunch, mediation of various decisions/conflicts/ambitions, encouraging kids to go beyond their comfort zones, coaching kids through pressure points, running to the store for a needed material/tool).

wilsonmw04

22-10-2015, 11:51

Don't underestimate

Sorry, I worded the question poorly. It was not my intent to underestimate the work you and your team is doing. Thank you for the information.

JesseK

22-10-2015, 12:12

Sorry, I worded the question poorly. It was not my intent to underestimate the work you and your team is doing. Thank you for the information.

Sorry, it wasn't meant as "DON'T" and more like 'there is more to it'.

By the way, who's not stressing out that he got back 3 minutes late from lunch on the day of 2nd registration?
<---- this guy

Michael Kaurich

22-10-2015, 12:57

I think the District should consider reaching out to schools without teams as hosts. Allows those schools to build excitement thus possibly a team and eliminates the host vs compete scenario.

This has occurred in Maryland this year with Harford Tech. The school previously had a team years ago but hasn't been active for a while. They are excited about having an event at their facility.

However, getting to this stage with the school required us to have a contact from a FIRST community member and a bit of a past history. Getting buy in on the administrative level for the school and the district is more difficult when teams are not present as they don't see the direct impact right away.

This being said, if there are locations, with or without team(s), in CHP District that anyone has contacts with please forward them to your RDs. We are starting the planning process for events next year and the more sites we can look at the merrier.

zcohen

22-10-2015, 12:59

I see 1111 isn't registered to compete in their host event, either. I'm curious if CHP advised these teams to stay away form their own events, or each of these teams decided to be cautious on their own.

We discussed attending our own event, but decided against it. While we're not running the event, the district is doing that, I wanted to make sure our students were available for volunteers if need be. Additionally 1111 will be taking care of concessions and we're hopefully going to be running our shop as a machine shop, so I didnt want to pull students away from those roles in order to compete. Also, while we never would exploit it, and I dont think any other team would either, I dont like even the idea of a perceived home team advantage, so we made the decision to not compete between that possible but unlikely perception and because I wanted my students and parents to be available as volunteers.

zcohen

22-10-2015, 13:10

I forgot about this thread for a bit until one of my students asked me about it. They asked me word for word, "why are there mentors on CD that just keep bashing every decision on going to districts?" This got me to read through the thread a bit and I can totally see where they're coming from. A lot of the posts come off extremely accusatory against the planning committees and steering committee, and many could have been figured out with a simple email to the team's RD instead of going through and complaining about what seems like half the things said by the steering committee. Remember students read these posts too, and if my kids are actively asking me why all the negativity, there must be many more thinking it too.
Many people seem to forget how difficult it must be to switch to districts. Your taking so much that was done by FIRST HQ and, and putting on the backs of largely a volunteer group. While there are paid staff, they still have to do everything they had to do before with running all four programs in their states in addition to the added workload on districts. Instead of complaining about things, how about we help each other out. Instead of saying just "the district should have done this", how about asking, "hey, I think this could have gone better this way, have you looked into it that way, and if not, could I do so?"

Maybe I'm just reading into these posts too much, but again, this is a public forum that our kids are reading, and I know they're having at least the same thoughts as I am on my team.

PayneTrain

22-10-2015, 13:48

Maybe I'm just reading into these posts too much, but again, this is a public forum that our kids are reading, and I know they're having at least the same thoughts as I am on my team.

I just re-read the thread, and outside of the relative inanity over the logo and terminology (which is standard Chief affair; go look at the tired thread about FIRST changing their logo and then please bleach both pairs of our eyes) it's reasoned thought from mentors who have been in FIRST for a long time and I don't think there is any push back moving to the district system within the teams who have posted here. In fact, this is something some of us have been pushing for for 5-6 years. We have had issues of growing FRC in places where it should thrive (I would love to see a day where Hampton Roads has as many teams as NoVA) and it's outside the scope of my team or any individual team to easily remedy something like that. On top of that, competitive drive and team camaraderie are also pretty lousy in the area, and maybe districts can fix that.

I don't doubt that everyone in this thread is also not aware of the sacrifices that have to be made in transitioning to the district system. I know my team has financially and logistically prepared itself to undertake reasonable inherent difficulties. Any perceived shortcoming I see as with lines of communication are usually channeled into private discussions that you don't see and public posts that you do see. It's not a complaint, a diatribe, a long winded litany, a Shakesperean tragedy, or a Homeric epic, it's usually just a question with possible criticism that I want answered.

My perception is that no one here has bashed the inherent idea of districts, but some people who have been around the block with some others before feel their voice is not heard through the proper primary channels and decide to bolster their voice through this forum. No one is dressing down FIRST Chesapeake or VirginiaFIRST/DC FIRST/ Maryland FIRST here. But perception is reality, and if there is a different reality somewhere else there is not much I can do to change it.

notmattlythgoe

22-10-2015, 13:51

On top of that, competitive drive and team camaraderie are also pretty lousy in the area, and maybe districts can fix that.

Hey now!! I take offense to that...oh wait, it's true.

wilsonmw04

22-10-2015, 13:52

Instead of complaining about things, how about we help each other out. Instead of saying just "the district should have done this", how about asking, "hey, I think this could have gone better this way, have you looked into it that way, and if not, could I do so?"

Greetings Zach,
You are coming in at the tail end of a conversation that has been going on for well over a year. Many of us have done those things that you have mentioned. Many of us were worried about being able to complete the needed changes in a short period of time, but we were willing and able to assist in the transition. We were then told we would not have a seat at the table in planning the events.

There is a HUGE wealth of knowledge and people-power that is not being tapped into. This is very frustrating. I think what you are sensing is frustration. I know I am frustrated. With that being said, I am still willing are able to assist in these events. If anyone from CHP is reading, this all you have to do is ask.

wilsonmw04

22-10-2015, 13:55

Hey now!! I take offense to that...oh wait, it's true.

:-)

PayneTrain

22-10-2015, 13:55

Hey now!! I take offense to that...oh wait, it's true.

:-)

: (

notmattlythgoe

22-10-2015, 13:59

There is a HUGE wealth of knowledge and people-power that is not being tapped into. This is very frustrating. I think what you are sensing is frustration. I know I am frustrated.

This right here. There are 3 separate groups with experience running semi-district size events in a high school. And I know for a fact that one of those groups is not being utilized. I'm, sure the same is true for the other 2.

On top of that there are some of us that feel the priorities that have been utilized in deciding how much to spend on each event are way out of wack.

wilsonmw04

22-10-2015, 14:12

: (

Sorry, dude. Just smiling through the pain.

(the pun. it hurts! but I can't resist)

JesseK

22-10-2015, 14:17

Hey now!! I take offense to that...oh wait, it's true.

1 sec, gotta get my glove off....

SLAP!

See you on the 7th!

:D

Lil' Lavery

22-10-2015, 14:21

It's not a complaint, a diatribe, a long winded litany, a Shakesperean tragedy, or a Homeric epic, it's usually just a question with possible criticism that I want answered.

This is the exact tone that causes people to think much of this thread carries a negative attitude. This is dismissive of the other side of the conversation. There have been multiple comments along these lines pretty steadily through this thread.

Conversationally, this may fly. I know a lot of this thread happens between friends and acquaintances who may know how a post is supposed to be read and interpreted, but that rapport doesn't carry over to the general public.

notmattlythgoe

22-10-2015, 14:24

1 sec, gotta get my glove off....

SLAP!

See you on the 7th!

:D

http://shortroundandfast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/challenge-accepted-barney-5619.jpeg

Wish I was able to come up this weekend, having a 7 week old at home makes that difficult. Good luck with IROC this weekend.

With all of the complaints I've had about the handling of districts, they have done a good job of supporting off-season events.

first3234

23-10-2015, 17:37

I can't wait to see how the new Chesapeake district goes this year and good luck to all teams

RoboMom

06-12-2015, 15:13

We are starting to make Lead assignments across the District and will be concentrating on the other assignments starting in Jan.
Interested? http://www.firstchesapeake.org/volunteer
NOTE: preference for the Chesapeake District Championship assignments will be given to those who volunteer at local Chesapeake District events.

Wetzel

06-12-2015, 15:17

We are starting to make Lead assignments across the District and will be concentrating on the other assignment starting in Jan.
Interested? http://www.firstchesapeake.org/volunteer
NOTE: preference for the Chesapeake District Championship assignments will be given to those who volunteer at local Chesapeake District events.

Sounds like fun, maybe I'll sign up!

PayneTrain

05-01-2016, 18:15

From the Jan 5 newsletter:

FIRST Chesapeake has received 25 slots to the 2016 FIRST Championship. Award slots include: 3 Dean's List Awards, 3 Chairman's Awards, 1 Rookie All Star Award and 2 Engineering Inspiration Award.

Championship Slot +/- from 2015 to 2016.

Total Slots: +7
RCA Slots: +0
EI Slots: -1
RAS Slots: -2
Winner Slots: -6*
At-Large Slots: +16*

*backup provision excluded

---
DLFA Slots: -3
WFFA Slots: -2 (I assume)
--

The district seems to have the same award allocation as the Pacific Northwest, with the obvious exception being 3 fewer DLFA slots. Not sure if this was a decision made by HQ or the district...

wilsonmw04

05-01-2016, 22:06

From the Jan 5 newsletter:

The district seems to have the same award allocation as the Pacific Northwest, with the obvious exception being 3 fewer DLFA slots. Not sure if this was a decision made by HQ or the district...

Any info as to how these slots were selected? Have they given out the points system for the district yet?

Wetzel

05-01-2016, 22:24

Any info as to how these slots were selected? Have they given out the points system for the district yet?

Whilst I've not done the math, my understating is that that the number of slots is created by the number of teams in the district to give a proportional amount at the Championship. As for a point system, I've not seen one yet, nor do I expect to see one until after kickoff.

Mr V

06-01-2016, 01:32

Any info as to how these slots were selected? Have they given out the points system for the district yet?

The total number of slots that a District has to award is the precentage of spots at CMP that is proportional to the percentage of teams that district has.

In the past FIRST has dictated 1 to x (sorry I don't remember the value of x) CA, EI and RAS and the 3 teams on the DCMP winning alliance earn spots. The individual district could then decide exactly what number between 1 and x they award. This is done to adjust for the different sizes of districts. For example for CA and EI there will be as many teams competing for those awards at DCMP as the number of district events.

As far as the points system a lot of time was invested in the original unified district points system so I don't expect major changes from the last two years. Yes last year they made an adjustment to account for the lack of win and loss in qualification rounds but otherwise the basics were the same. Of course last years rules are not this years rules so it could always change. I do have a feeling we will know in just a few days.