View Full Version : Georgia Districts confirmed for 2016!
Anupam Goli
03-07-2015, 21:01
As per an email I received today:
We are excited to announce that Georgia will adopt the District model for the 2016 FRC season. We realize that your team will have many questions about the coming changes. The basic information for the Georgia District model is attached in this email.
Over the next month we will develop a Georgia District FAQ webpage on the GeorgiaFIRST website. Please send us an email if you have questions after reviewing the attached information. We will add your questions to the FAQ's.
Also know that District event locations are being finalized. As soon as we have more information on locations we will share it and post it to gafirst.org.
I'm definitely excited about this. I'm hoping to have enough events where I can take my team to 3 districts + district championship at the least.
Link to attachment in email: Georgia FIRST District system (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1CRor_EhqgDVXN1LTRpY2s0Q3IwajZ4MmVuN0tkSFhhR1BZ/view?usp=sharing)
MARS_James
04-07-2015, 09:33
I am really happy for our neighbors to the direct north. I would love to hear from someone involved with the planning about more of the logistics of the change over as Georgia just got it's second regional last year and are now making the switch to districts.
Within the next few years, NE, MAR, North Carolina, and now Chesapeake and Georgia will all be moving to the district model. That is a very significant portion of the East Coast!
Anupam Goli
04-07-2015, 11:33
I am really happy for our neighbors to the direct north. I would love to hear from someone involved with the planning about more of the logistics of the change over as Georgia just got it's second regional last year and are now making the switch to districts.
I'm not on the planning committee but I can provide a little bit of background on what the state was looking at in 2015:
For starters the second regional did leaps and bounds to improve play in the state and give teams a second shot at competing. However many teams in the state still only played 1 event. After Peachtree many teams were upset at getting only 8 qualification matches, but having to pay so much for the registration and venue associated costs. Given that a large percentage of teams are based in the metro Atlanta area, there was an interesting optimization problem to solve, involving cost per play, team distribution, and individual team expenses. Hopefully the venue selections solve this problem.
Jacob Bendicksen
04-07-2015, 19:41
Great to hear that more regions are moving to the district system. It's been fantastic for teams in the PNW, so best of luck and have fun to our friends in Georgia!
Brandon Zalinsky
04-07-2015, 21:57
I'm hyped! More events to go to that will fit better with my schedule! I hope to see all your wonderful faces at some Georgia Districts and Georgia Champs!
The down side of districts is that you have to be in a district to go an event. I am going to miss the out of state and country teams we have competed with over the years.
ttldomination
04-07-2015, 22:27
The down side of districts is that you have to be in a district to go an event....
Not 100% correct. Looking in the 2015 rules, there is still a decent amount of flexibility.
- In-district teams can travel to other regionals, where they will play under standard regional rules (qualify for all awards, a win gets you to worlds, etc.). However, you do not gain any points from these events.
- In-district teams can also travel to other districts. However, the team will not get any points from that event and they do not qualify for specific awards (Chairmans, etc.).
But the primary restriction still remains that 'regional' teams cannot come 'into the district.'
It will definitely mean that GA will become a little more isolated, but that could be a good thing.
- Sunny G.
Brian Maher
04-07-2015, 23:19
I'm really happy to see more regions going to districts. I've been in MAR on Team 1257 since the district's implementation four years ago.
Being able to compete twice for the same price and having the extra chance to grow, learn, and improve have helped our team escape a rough few years. The intermediate, more reachable level of success (District Championship) increased our drive to be successful on and off the field.
Districts really increase the value of FRC not just in terms of cost per match but in terms of the inspiration and impact FRC makes on teams, especially struggling ones. I'm really glad more teams will be able to take advantage of the system that has helped us so much.
boxerbaby30
05-07-2015, 00:12
Team 108 will sorely miss competing at Peachtree in Atlanta. Our past couple of years traveling to Georgia have been great. Thanks to all of the teams that made competing there such a great experience for us. Special shout out to teams 4188 and 343 for making our last year at Peachtree a victory we will never forget.
logank013
05-07-2015, 01:31
Within the next few years, NE, MAR, North Carolina, and now Chesapeake and Georgia will all be moving to the district model. That is a very significant portion of the East Coast!
Isn't texas going to the district model next year too? I don't know how regionals were since I wasn't on the team last ear but I know being in the IN district this year was great. I felt like I knew almost every Indiana team front to back. Plus, it's a really good representation of who they best bots are all year vs. just 1 event.
logank013
05-07-2015, 01:34
Not 100% correct. Looking in the 2015 rules, there is still a decent amount of flexibility.
- In-district teams can travel to other regionals, where they will play under standard regional rules (qualify for all awards, a win gets you to worlds, etc.). However, you do not gain any points from these events.
- In-district teams can also travel to other districts. However, the team will not get any points from that event and they do not qualify for specific awards (Chairmans, etc.).
But the primary restriction still remains that 'regional' teams cannot come 'into the district.'
It will definitely mean that GA will become a little more isolated, but that could be a good thing.
- Sunny G.
I know at IN Kokomo, we had 2 FiM teams at our event. Team 68 and 107 played in the IN district but it was just for fun. It didn't add any points to there FiM district. Plus, I know that we could have gone to regionals as well.
logank013
05-07-2015, 01:37
I'm really happy to see more regions going to districts. I've been in MAR on Team 1257 since the district's implementation four years ago.
Being able to compete twice for the same price and having the extra chance to grow, learn, and improve have helped our team escape a rough few years. The intermediate, more reachable level of success (District Championship) increased our drive to be successful on and off the field.
Districts really increase the value of FRC not just in terms of cost per match but in terms of the inspiration and impact FRC makes on teams, especially struggling ones. I'm really glad more teams will be able to take advantage of the system that has helped us so much.
I wasn't on the team last year but i know we only went to 2 regionals for the cost of $10,000. This year, our first two districts cost $5,000 and our 3rd district cost only $1,000 more. Then the district championship was $4,000. In my opinion, 4 events for the same price as 2 events is worth it. Plus, it is a better representation of who the true good teams in the districts are. I loved how the point system was layed out for this year.
Congratulations to Georgia! It's great to see more states switching over to the districts system. We're gonna miss competing with you guys, though; we had a great time at GSCE this year!
It is interesting that the announcement says that teams are required to attend two district events. Yes it is unlikely that you can move on to DCMP and then CMP if you only attend one event. You could however do it as winning Chairman's, Engineering Inspiration and Rookie All Star at a district event automatically qualifies you for DCMP. Winning those awards or being on the winning alliance at DCMP automatically qualify you for CMP. However if you can only attend one event you can only attend one event. What is the penalty if you only go to one district event other than it hurting you chances of moving on to DCMP and CMP? I know we have had that happen with one team in the PNW, and no they didn't qualify for DCMP.
bigbeezy
05-07-2015, 12:24
It is interesting that the announcement says that teams are required to attend two district events.
Hmm...maybe its a way to push to teams to register for and go to 2 events. Could be that teams are used to only going to 1 event and as such would just plan on 1 district event. It is also probably so that the X number of district events planned actually have enough teams (from Georgia) compete. If event attendance is too low, then they may have to go back to regional model or scale back on the number of district events offered.
But the primary restriction still remains that 'regional' teams cannot come 'into the district.'
It's a pretty strange restriction too. Why can't regional teams go to a district event and have it "not count" for anything? (like a 3rd play for district teams). What's the reasoning behind this restriction? I can see that maybe FIRST would want more teams to sign up for more expensive regional events, but nearly all of the regionals have been full for the past few years.
It is interesting that the announcement says that teams are required to attend two district events.
I don't think there is a penalty for only going to one event, this is probably just to show teams that they can't just sign up for one event and pay half price or something. It's either $5000 for two events, or $0 for none.
It is interesting that the announcement says that teams are required to attend two district events.
I'm on the committee,,,,,, that was a poorly worded sentence.
The team does not have to attend. They are eligible to attend two events and it is desired that they attend two events.
I don't think there is a penalty for only going to one event, this is probably just to show teams that they can't just sign up for one event and pay half price or something. It's either $5000 for two events, or $0 for none.
It would be $5000 if you go to one or two events.
I'm on the committee,,,,,, that was a poorly worded sentence.
The team does not have to attend. They are eligible to attend two events and it is desired that they attend two events.
I was wondering if it was just poorly worded. That should be fixed though otherwise it may scare off a team that is certain that they can make two events happen. Yes it is highly desired that a team attends two district events but attending one is still better than attending zero.
I'd also suggest that the wording be changed from earning "quality points" to "qualifying points" because you earn points to qualify for DCMP.
I had a rookie team that I was working with this year that almost only attended one event because one of the two events that were close enough for them to attend coincided with another commitment he had. He tried to get me to drop that second event and I told him just to wait and see if something could be figured out. Lo and behold a parent who attended the first event stepped up, jumped through the school district hoops and took the kids. What he saw at the first event convinced him that he was going to make sure that the students were able to attend both events that they were entitled to.
Good luck to all of those involved. Making the transition to the district system is a lot of work but the benefits to the students are massive.
logank013
05-07-2015, 15:54
It is interesting that the announcement says that teams are required to attend two district events. Yes it is unlikely that you can move on to DCMP and then CMP if you only attend one event. You could however do it as winning Chairman's, Engineering Inspiration and Rookie All Star at a district event automatically qualifies you for DCMP. Winning those awards or being on the winning alliance at DCMP automatically qualify you for CMP. However if you can only attend one event you can only attend one event. What is the penalty if you only go to one district event other than it hurting you chances of moving on to DCMP and CMP? I know we have had that happen with one team in the PNW, and no they didn't qualify for DCMP.
In Indiana, only chairman's award allowed you to automatically advance to district champs. Engineering inspiration was an 8 point bonus and rookie all star was a 5 point bonus I believe.
AdamStockton
05-07-2015, 17:29
Isn't texas going to the district model next year too?
I don't think that Texas is moving to districts this year, based on the fact that the Alamo Regional dates has been posted to the 2016 event calendar (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/regional-events). Although it is still possible for this to change.
JohnFogarty
06-07-2015, 00:36
I'm interested to see what events show up considering I might have a hand in helping out a team in Augusta, Ga area this coming season.
robochick1319
06-07-2015, 17:47
Glad to hear our neighbors are moving on to the district model. I also hear NC is doing the same? Wonder what southern state will be next?
I really hope SC can do the same in the near future. Any advice for teams hoping to spark the growth of the district model?
DonRotolo
06-07-2015, 18:08
The down side of districts is that you have to be in a district to go an event. I am going to miss the out of state and country teams we have competed with over the years.Just wait a few years until there are more districts. Of course, inter-district play was allowed in 2015, but not counting towards you district's championship. Not to mention, you are still allowed to go to a regional if you wish in addition to competing in your district events.
The team does not have to attend. They are eligible to attend two events and it is desired that they attend two events....and they'd be crazy not to. It is well-proven that teams are more competitive at their second event compared to the first - with very few exceptions.
I was at first skeptical about Mid-Atlantic districts, but after a few years there is no way any team would want to go back to Regionals. We play a ton more, costs a lot less, and have just as much fun per event. We also can afford to travel 'a distance' to meet international and other teams, when we want.
It is to be celebrated that GA is moving to districts. It is a little scary, but work with the committee and help them iron out the kinks, it will absolutely be far better for all.
In Indiana, only chairman's award allowed you to automatically advance to district champs. Engineering inspiration was an 8 point bonus and rookie all star was a 5 point bonus I believe.
Yes I wasn't very clear. Winning EI or RAS at the district level qualifies the team to compete for that award at the DCMP but not the robot. However winning EI or RAS at DCMP qualifies the team and the robot for CMP. Both EI and RAS are worth 8 points.
The down side of districts is that you have to be in a district to go an event. I am going to miss the out of state and country teams we have competed with over the years.
Don's thoughtful reply (inpart)
Just wait a few years until there are more districts. Of course, inter-district play was allowed in 2015, but not counting towards you district's championship. Not to mention, you are still allowed to go to a regional if you wish in addition to competing in your district events.
I am not really complaining about going to district. Georgia's choice was districts 2016 or 2017, not regional or district. Knowing the costs to put on a regional, I don't think they are sustainable for the long run. My lament is we will not see in any non district teams (FL, SC, TN, international teams, ETC) in Georgia, at least for 2016. We do have a choice of going to another district, but only NC is a reasonable commute. Going to a regional will be difficult cost & logistically wise. (Optimistically planning for 2 districts, & districts finals). Regional registration opens for districts teams late in registration. With the loss of 6 regionals in the south east & the addition of one (Alabama), the number of regionals with space available will be questionable even if we chose that option.
Anupam Goli
07-07-2015, 11:47
I am not really complaining about going to district. Georgia's choice was districts 2016 or 2017, not regional or district. Knowing the costs to put on a regional, I don't think they are sustainable for the long run. My lament is we will not see in any non district teams (FL, SC, TN, international teams, ETC) in Georgia, at least for 2016. We do have a choice of going to another district, but only NC is a reasonable commute. Going to a regional will be difficult cost & logistically wise. (Optimistically planning for 2 districts, & districts finals). Regional registration opens for districts teams late in registration. With the loss of 6 regionals in the south east & the addition of one (Alabama), the number of regionals with space available will be questionable even if we chose that option.
It's a small price we pay in exchange for a better overall experience for our teams.
D.Allred
07-07-2015, 12:35
Don's thoughtful reply (inpart)
I am not really complaining about going to district. Georgia's choice was districts 2016 or 2017, not regional or district. Knowing the costs to put on a regional, I don't think they are sustainable for the long run. My lament is we will not see in any non district teams (FL, SC, TN, international teams, ETC) in Georgia, at least for 2016. We do have a choice of going to another district, but only NC is a reasonable commute. Going to a regional will be difficult cost & logistically wise. (Optimistically planning for 2 districts, & districts finals). Regional registration opens for districts teams late in registration. With the loss of 6 regionals in the south east & the addition of one (Alabama), the number of regionals with space available will be questionable even if we chose that option.
It's going to be an interesting year in SC. Normally NC and GA comprise 15% to 20% of Palmetto Regional teams. I'd be surprised to see any this year. At this point, we don't have a locked in date since the venue is not available week 1.
Good luck with your district events!
David
AllenGregoryIV
07-07-2015, 12:54
I don't think that Texas is moving to districts this year, based on the fact that the Alamo Regional dates has been posted to the 2016 event calendar (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/regional-events). Although it is still possible for this to change.
No it's not, Texas will have the normal regional system for 2016. Venue contracts have been signed. The district committees for Texas are looking at 2017 as the earliest start for district play in Texas. It's nice to see that the smaller regions/states are going to be able to have districts quickly. Moving to districts in the smaller areas where you are replacing 1-2 regionals with 3-4 districts seems easier than in Texas were we are replacing 4 regionals with possibly 10 or more district events.
Qbot2640
07-07-2015, 13:51
It's going to be an interesting year in SC. Normally NC and GA comprise 15% to 20% of Palmetto Regional teams. I'd be surprised to see any this year. At this point, we don't have a locked in date since the venue is not available week 1.
Good luck with your district events!
David
Finally...but too late! We avoided Palmetto in 2013 and 2014 because it was week 1...couldn't schedule any alternatives in 2015, so we came and showed just why we hate week 1 events so much (with our awful performance), and now that NC is switching to districts, Palmetto is finally going to be a different week. Bummer!
Now I'm curious about when and where Palmetto is ?
Billfred
07-07-2015, 21:00
Now I'm curious about when and where Palmetto is ?
I'm not on the committee, but here's what I know:
1) The Palmetto committee and Myrtle Beach Convention Center had the last weekend in February penciled in well in advance for the next few years.
2) FIRST jerked the rug from under everyone and said "Surpriiiiiise! Kickoff is January 9, not January 2." Which doesn't really matter if you're a later week, but if you're Week 1 you're hosed. Naturally, the venue was unavailable for New Week 1.
3) The lion's share of the financial backing for Palmetto is in the Myrtle Beach area, and the convention center is moving heaven and earth to accommodate us. I would be properly shocked if it moved from Myrtle Beach.
4) The last plan I heard--admittedly, about two months ago--is to stage Palmetto Wednesday/Thursday/Friday the first week of March (9-12) in Myrtle Beach.
--------------------------------
Georgia does have a certain special place in my heart, since Peachtree was home to one of my favorite memories (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/36739) in FRC. (The win was just the icing on that cake.) Congrats to our neighbors on reaching the transition point, and as a competitor I am beyond ready for South Carolina to join you there.
robochick1319
07-07-2015, 22:03
I'm not on the committee, but here's what I know:
1) The Palmetto committee and Myrtle Beach Convention Center had the last weekend in February penciled in well in advance for the next few years.
2) FIRST jerked the rug from under everyone and said "Surpriiiiiise! Kickoff is January 9, not January 2." Which doesn't really matter if you're a later week, but if you're Week 1 you're hosed. Naturally, the venue was unavailable for New Week 1.
3) The lion's share of the financial backing for Palmetto is in the Myrtle Beach area, and the convention center is moving heaven and earth to accommodate us. I would be properly shocked if it moved from Myrtle Beach.
4) The last plan I heard--admittedly, about two months ago--is to stage Palmetto Wednesday/Thursday/Friday the first week of March (9-12) in Myrtle Beach.
--------------------------------
Georgia does have a certain special place in my heart, since Peachtree was home to one of my favorite memories (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/36739) in FRC. (The win was just the icing on that cake.) Congrats to our neighbors on reaching the transition point, and as a competitor I am beyond ready for South Carolina to join you there.
Yes, that is what I had heard as well. Right now the Myrtle Beach convention center calendar has FIRST robotics on the calendar for 2/26 - 2/27 (Fri - Sat) which obviously does not work.
But I can't see the next week working either since there is another event scheduled at the same time. Perhaps they could handle both? Or perhaps Palmetto will be a week 2 or 3 event?
I hope they can figure something out. A Wed-Thurs-Friday event is going to be trouble for a lot of teams, especially our long distance friends. This may be a much smaller Palmetto regional as a result.
RufflesRidge
07-07-2015, 22:11
2) FIRST jerked the rug from under everyone and said "Surpriiiiiise! Kickoff is January 9, not January 2." Which doesn't really matter if you're a later week, but if you're Week 1 you're hosed. Naturally, the venue was unavailable for New Week 1.
Hot take given that kickoff has never been held on January 2nd.
It was held January 9th in both 2010 and 1999 and the 1993 manual lists it as January 8th. This makes perfect sense given that the 2nd would put setup for kickoffs, as well as the Founder's Reception on New Year's day.
Shouldn't have been much of a surprise.
Alan Anderson
07-07-2015, 22:20
2) FIRST jerked the rug from under everyone and said "Surpriiiiiise! Kickoff is January 9, not January 2."
I would have been surprised if Kickoff had been January 2. It was "delayed a week" before recently enough that I think the planning committee ought to have known it was a possibility.
Perhaps they could handle both?
If I remember correctly MB has 3 or 4 halls, and the FRC event takes two halls. So yes, it could happen.
MikeBrock
07-07-2015, 22:54
Exciting! Hopefully this means Georgia will have an increase in team strength outside of the current few decent teams who make it to Champs.
Billfred
08-07-2015, 10:57
Hot take given that kickoff has never been held on January 2nd.
It was held January 9th in both 2010 and 1999 and the 1993 manual lists it as January 8th. This makes perfect sense given that the 2nd would put setup for kickoffs, as well as the Founder's Reception on New Year's day.
Shouldn't have been much of a surprise.
I would have been surprised if Kickoff had been January 2. It was "delayed a week" before recently enough that I think the planning committee ought to have known it was a possibility.
I could give the committee a pass for not remembering the 1993 and 1999 dates (only one South Carolina team existed at all in 1999), but I had forgotten about 2010. Perhaps the better phrasing is that the committee was caught off-guard by it.
But I can't see the next week working either since there is another event scheduled at the same time. Perhaps they could handle both? Or perhaps Palmetto will be a week 2 or 3 event?
I hope they can figure something out. A Wed-Thurs-Friday event is going to be trouble for a lot of teams, especially our long distance friends. This may be a much smaller Palmetto regional as a result.
If I remember correctly MB has 3 or 4 halls, and the FRC event takes two halls. So yes, it could happen.
Wednesday-Thursday-Friday is kinda murderous for our 4-H club. I know schools are on a tight leash for time out of the classroom (ridiculous, but another topic), but in our case it's not even a field trip for our kids. Add in the Georgia and North Carolina events coming off the board, and it's going to be tough planning a schedule that lets us compete twice. (Yes, 4901 has always done Orlando as the second event. But with the calendar shift, will that be back-to-back? That's a roughness all its own!)
As for the convention center, there are three halls (http://www.visitmyrtlebeach.com/includes/content/images/MEDIA/convcenter.gif) (plus a grand ballroom) in the building. Palmetto has always used B for the pits, C for the arena (and just as important, the pull-out bleachers).
All that said, I would not shed a single solitary tear if Palmetto shrank by a dozen teams next year. Week 1 and 67 teams means a lot of good teams are getting lost in the shuffle at their home event. (Columbia is a combined 0-for-18 on awards and playoff appearances in the three years it's been in Myrtle Beach. The three years before that, a Columbia team was in the winning alliance. We haven't fallen off that much, have we?)
waialua359
08-07-2015, 14:53
The down side of districts is that you have to be in a district to go an event. I am going to miss the out of state and country teams we have competed with over the years.
Same here about doing events in Georgia.
Last year we were signed up for the new regional but had to cancel, because our robot shipment to Australia at our subsequent event was jeopardized. We also wanted to do Peachtreee at some point.
Looks like we'll never have the chance.
Oh well, another State we are locked out of....:(
Same here about doing events in Georgia.
Last year we were signed up for the new regional but had to cancel, because our robot shipment to Australia at our subsequent event was jeopardized. We also wanted to do Peachtreee at some point.
Looks like we'll never have the chance.
Oh well, another State we are locked out of....:(
Boise regional?
thatprogrammer
08-07-2015, 18:59
If anyone has access to accurate data on the locations of teams (the USFIRST site is horrible at this), would it be possible to find out possible locations for districts if Florida and Georgia shared a district? Really curious about how likely such a thing would be.
Anupam Goli
08-07-2015, 19:51
If anyone has access to accurate data on the locations of teams (the USFIRST site is horrible at this), would it be possible to find out possible locations for districts if Florida and Georgia shared a district? Really curious about how likely such a thing would be.
Most of the Georgia Districts will likely take place in the Northern part of the state, with the exception of something around the Columbus or Albany, GA area. There aren't that many teams in the state that are south of Macon, GA.
If anyone has access to accurate data on the locations of teams (the USFIRST site is horrible at this), would it be possible to find out possible locations for districts if Florida and Georgia shared a district? Really curious about how likely such a thing would be.
The distance from Miami to Atlanta is about 700 miles. (coincidentally the distance from Atlanta to Detroit is about 700 miles.) If the states combined to one district, the logical choice for district champs would be around Jacksonville. A long commute for a good many teams. While you get some teams traveling a long ways district events, it would be more a north district meeting the southern district at district champs. From a competition stand point, it would make a good pool of competitive teams if distance was not an issue.
While I am not part of the planning committee so obliviously do not speak for them, likely location for district events: Atlanta metro, Macon, Athens, Albany, Columbus.
AllenGregoryIV
10-07-2015, 12:00
The distance from Miami to Atlanta is about 700 miles. (coincidentally the distance from Atlanta to Detroit is about 700 miles.)
The distance from Houston to El Paso is about 750 miles. The large districts are going to be interesting. I wonder if we are going to see more small districts with even some of the large ones splitting in the future or will the smaller districts combine as we move forward.
The distance from Houston to El Paso is about 750 miles. The large districts are going to be interesting. I wonder if we are going to see more small districts with even some of the large ones splitting in the future or will the smaller districts combine as we move forward.
I think we eventually go to: Districts, Regions, World. So we would have smaller districts part of a large region. Like we would eventually have 40-50 districts that are then a part of 7-10 regions that build into worlds.
The distance from Houston to El Paso is about 750 miles. The large districts are going to be interesting. I wonder if we are going to see more small districts with even some of the large ones splitting in the future or will the smaller districts combine as we move forward.
That's it. We are just going to have to cut Texas into quarters. :p
Arefin Bari
19-07-2015, 17:39
Its great to see our neighbors adopt the districts. Good luck and we will miss coming up there.
Would have been sweet if we could come back and win one more time.
The_ShamWOW88
21-07-2015, 09:37
Congrats Georgia and good luck!
So some interesting facts
77 teams were listed in GA for 2015 season and only 60 teams competed in 2015. Why did 22.5% (17) not compete last year.
Why hold District Championships (State) in Athens, GA which will require 99% of the teams to travel and bear the brunt of hotel and meals?
I hear "cost per play" mentioned as the reason that district model is better than regional. Well add the expense of travelling into the equation and you will see it will cost teams more per play than prior.
About 60% of the teams in GA are located in the Metro Atlanta area, would it not make more sense to hold the championship in the areas that holds most of the teams? This would require fewer teams travelling expenses.
Minimum cost to go to worlds will now be approximately $9k to go to state and another $4k for world costing $13K under the district model. This assumption is if no travelling is required to district events.
Minimum cost to go to worlds under regional model $9k ( one regional at $5k and worlds at $4k).
I just do not see the benefit when analyzed with all cost per play calculated not just registration fees of FIRST.
I see every teams annual budget increasing by about $10k to cover getting to State to qualify for World Championships in whatever city you get assigned to play in. Now add another $20k to cover worlds and see what cost per play is!
Minimum cost to go to worlds will now be approximately $9k to go to state and another $4k for world costing $13K under the district model. This assumption is if no travelling is required to district events.
Minimum cost to go to worlds under regional model $9k ( one regional at $5k and worlds at $4k).
I just do not see the benefit when analyzed with all cost per play calculated not just registration fees of FIRST.
I see every teams annual budget increasing by about $10k to cover getting to State to qualify for World Championships in whatever city you get assigned to play in. Now add another $20k to cover worlds and see what cost per play is!I won't comment on Georgia travel costs from Pennsylvania, but last year 495 of the 609* teams registered for Worlds went to at least 2 events beforehand. This includes all of the Georgia teams in attendance. Districts increase the hypothetical minimum registration cost for Worlds, but that doesn't apply across the vast majority of reality, particularly when discounting places that are not candidates for districts (e.g. international/low event density).
It's also true that the vast majority of teams do not go to Worlds, and District events themselves are a huge boon to the cost-per-play of all but the most remote teams in district-ready areas. (I'm working under the assumption that Georgia's team distribution is district-ready and their district event placement will reflect that.) That said, we in MAR know what it's like to have a District Championship decidedly not at the population center of teams, and this does take its toll. It doesn't doom the system though, and events can move over time.
*Team count fluctuated a little up to the event; this is using 1114's database. Edit: see Sunny's post. Sorry, I must have missed someone.
ttldomination
21-07-2015, 23:10
Don, that's a good post of concerns. Primarily because we can take quite a few of those concerns, and analyze them with numbers.
I hear "cost per play" mentioned as the reason that district model is better than regional. Well add the expense of travelling into the equation and you will see it will cost teams more per play than prior.
So, I did some quick analysis on this on a number of different scenarios.
Now, please understand that there are quite a few variables at play, and I'm sure that there is a particular combination of team size, matches, performance, travel budget, etc. that'll disagree with what I have here.
Using the figures in OP's attached document, and assuming some basic information, here is the CPP breakdown.
Hotel Room: $100
Rooms: 10/night (28 students and 6 mentors)
Food: $10/meal
Travel: $500
Misc: $500
Team attends GSCR (No Travel, No Eliminations): $547
Team attends P'Tree and GSCR (1 Travel, No Eliminations): $792
Team attends P'Tree and GSCR (1 Travel, All Eliminations): $485
Team attends 2 Districts (2 Travel, No Eliminations): $485
Team attends 2 Districts (2 Travel, All Eliminations): $363
Team attends 2 Districts and State (3 Travel, No Elims at State): $395
Team attends 2 Districts and State (3 Travel, All Elims): $383
The bolded ones above represent the dynamic that your team (a large, successful team) is likely to fall into. As you can see, this move represents a 20% drop in cost per match. For a team that can only afford the registration fee and must travel to both events, there is still a significant improvement in CPM.
However, the number of matches does mask the reality that teams must dedicate more money. Including travel, 1261 would have to bring almost $5,000 more to the table in districts. A 1-regional team would have to bring $5,000 more to the table (assuming that they travel to both events).
The CPM numbers favor districts. The total cost numbers favor regionals.
Minimum cost to go to worlds will now be approximately $9k to go to state and another $4k for world costing $13K under the district model. This assumption is if no travelling is required to district events.
Minimum cost to go to worlds under regional model $9k ( one regional at $5k and worlds at $4k).
So, this point is valid. Your minimum cost in order to get to worlds is higher in the district model.
However, I can't help but feel like this is an obvious point. Like, of course, you're paying for two more events, why wouldn't you pay more? But let's take a look at how many teams this actually effects.
There were 11 teams at worlds from GA. Of those 11, 3 went to one regional. Of those 3, 2 were on the waitlist. That means that hypothetically speaking, 1 team would have faced this cost barrier.
I don't think the numbers diminish what you're saying; they just put your point in perspective
Just looking at the facts,
- Sunny G.
BBray_T1296
22-07-2015, 02:58
That's it. We are just going to have to cut Texas into quarters. :p
So North Texas (DFW), Central Texas (Austin/San Antonio), South Texas (Houston), and Everyone Else (People on 600 miles of open road). One of these covers vastly more land.
Alan Anderson
22-07-2015, 07:29
77 teams were listed in GA for 2015 season and only 60 teams competed in 2015. Why did 22.5% (17) not compete last year.
I don't know. Do you have any insight into the disparate numbers? (17/77 is only 22.1%, isn't it?)
Why hold District Championships (State) in Athens, GA which will require 99% of the teams to travel and bear the brunt of hotel and meals?
Your exaggerated numbers don't make me want to take you very seriously. In order to have 99% of teams travel, you'd need 100 teams at the state championship with only one not traveling. With fewer than 80 teams in total, that isn't very likely.
From a brief look at the map, it seems to me that there are at least four FRC teams in Georgia that wouldn't need to do an overnight trip to Athens. Even if every team in the state made the championship, that's less than 95% who would need to travel. Your point would have been just as strong had you said "more than 90%" instead of the hyperbolic "99%".
About 60% of the teams in GA are located in the Metro Atlanta area, would it not make more sense to hold the championship in the areas that holds most of the teams? This would require fewer teams travelling expenses.
It would make a lot of sense if you could assume two things: all teams are equally likely to attend the state championship, and the costs of the two venues are the same. The first assumption is reasonable, if perhaps a bit generous. Do you have any information on the second?
Minimum cost to go to worlds will now be approximately $9k to go to state and another $4k for world costing $13K under the district model. This assumption is if no travelling is required to district events.
Minimum cost to go to worlds under regional model $9k ( one regional at $5k and worlds at $4k).
I just do not see the benefit when analyzed with all cost per play calculated not just registration fees of FIRST.
If you analyze it again with two regionals, you'll see the benefit clearly. Complaining that it's more expensive to attend twice as many events doesn't strike me as an attitude I should care a lot about.
So, I did some quick analysis on this on a number of different scenarios....
Team attends 2 Districts (2 Travel, No Eliminations): $485
You didn't show the numbers for a team that does not need an overnight trip for one of their events. That would make the cost per play even lower.
So some interesting facts
77 teams were listed in GA for 2015 season and only 60 teams competed in 2015. Why did 22.5% (17) not compete last year.
If you look at the FIRST site for locating teams they show teams that have not competed for up to 3 or more years which is why there is the discrepancy. FIRST keeps them in the system in case they return and because of their rules for determining rookie status. Why that is in the publicly available team listings I'm not sure. So the reality is that only 60 teams registered for the 2015 season. Why those 17 teams dropped of over the last 3-4 years I do not know.
Don, that's a good post of concerns. Primarily because we can take quite a few of those concerns, and analyze them with numbers.
So, I did some quick analysis on this on a number of different scenarios.
Now, please understand that there are quite a few variables at play, and I'm sure that there is a particular combination of team size, matches, performance, travel budget, etc. that'll disagree with what I have here.
Using the figures in OP's attached document, and assuming some basic information, here is the CPP breakdown.
Hotel Room: $100
Rooms: 10/night (28 students and 6 mentors)
Food: $10/meal
Travel: $500
Misc: $500
Team attends GSCR (No Travel, No Eliminations): $547
Team attends P'Tree and GSCR (1 Travel, No Eliminations): $792
Team attends P'Tree and GSCR (1 Travel, All Eliminations): $485
Team attends 2 Districts (2 Travel, No Eliminations): $485
Team attends 2 Districts (2 Travel, All Eliminations): $363
Team attends 2 Districts and State (3 Travel, No Elims at State): $395
Team attends 2 Districts and State (3 Travel, All Elims): $383
The bolded ones above represent the dynamic that your team (a large, successful team) is likely to fall into. As you can see, this move represents a 20% drop in cost per match. For a team that can only afford the registration fee and must travel to both events, there is still a significant improvement in CPM.
However, the number of matches does mask the reality that teams must dedicate more money. Including travel, 1261 would have to bring almost $5,000 more to the table in districts. A 1-regional team would have to bring $5,000 more to the table (assuming that they travel to both events).
The CPM numbers favor districts. The total cost numbers favor regionals.
So, this point is valid. Your minimum cost in order to get to worlds is higher in the district model.
However, I can't help but feel like this is an obvious point. Like, of course, you're paying for two more events, why wouldn't you pay more? But let's take a look at how many teams this actually effects.
There were 11 teams at worlds from GA. Of those 11, 3 went to one regional. Of those 3, 2 were on the waitlist. That means that hypothetically speaking, 1 team would have faced this cost barrier.
I don't think the numbers diminish what you're saying; they just put your point in perspective
Just looking at the facts,
- Sunny G.
Why the assumption that in the District system teams will have to travel for both of their district events but attending one Regional would require no travel? Fact is that district events are typically spread geographically so that hopefully the vast majority of teams will not have to travel to one of their district events.
Also how did you determine the number matches in your calculations? One of the requirements of the District System is that there are 12 qualifying events at each event. I don't know about the events in GA but around here 9 qualifying matches was what we typically got at a Regional. You also have to factor in the fact that a team is more likely to make it to the finals in the District System. I don't know how big the GA events will be and what the Regional events were but in the PNW we typically have ~32 teams at a district event and our Regionals were up to 64 teams. So a 75% chance of playing at least 2 more matches vs the Regional where the probability can be as little as 1/2 of that.
When I ran the rough numbers when the PNW District was started I found that the number of teams that had traditionally attended 2 Regionals was almost as large as the number of teams at our DCMP. In the end those teams did make up a large percentage of those who actually attended the DCMP. When you factor that in most of the teams that made it to DCMP did not have their registration fees go up while seeing their number of matches increase about 50%. The travel costs for a lot of them did go up but since a district event is only 2 days and are typically held in areas where hotels are cheaper than where the Regionals were held their travel costs did not double.
As I've pointed out in previous discussions of the District System FIRST does sell it as lower cost but in the real world it does lower the cost for some teams, keeps it about the same for others and increases the costs for the rest of the teams. On the other hand in my experience the teams that see their costs increase are those that benefit the most from participating in the District system.
ttldomination
22-07-2015, 17:50
You didn't show the numbers for a team that does not need an overnight trip for one of their events. That would make the cost per play even lower.
Why the assumption that in the District system teams will have to travel for both of their district events but attending one Regional would require no travel? Fact is that district events are typically spread geographically so that hopefully the vast majority of teams will not have to travel to one of their district events.
I primarily did this to test Don's theory that travel will tip the scales in favor of regionals. Not having to travel for a district will, of course, reduce the CPM and overall costs much more.
Also how did you determine the number matches in your calculations?
I used the numbers in the document that OP linked to. 12 matches per district, 8 matches for the Peachtree Regional (GA) and 11 matches for GSCR (GA).
I will repeat my disclaimer that I used some basic numbers and scenarios on either end of the extremes (all travel vs. no travel, all eliminations vs. no eliminations, etc.). There are many, many factors/scenarios/events that play into the CPM analysis.
- Sunny G.
There is currently only one team registered near Athens
The events planned are not located near the majority of the teams currently registered
We attended XBots in Albany off season and hotel rooms were 114 plus tax cMe to 126 each
Total cost was 2500 including the entry fee for one night having the kids buy one meal and that was a one night trip with no transportation expenses
Food at 10 per meal is low in my opinion
Sorry just do not see the benefit when First talks of the world experience of international interaction , now they limit to only state interaction unless you make it to worlds
Billfred
22-07-2015, 20:53
There is currently only one team registered near Athens
The events planned are not located near the majority of the teams currently registered
We attended XBots in Albany off season and hotel rooms were 114 plus tax cMe to 126 each
Total cost was 2500 including the entry fee for one night having the kids buy one meal and that was a one night trip with no transportation expenses
Food at 10 per meal is low in my opinion
Sorry just do not see the benefit when First talks of the world experience of international interaction , now they limit to only state interaction unless you make it to worlds
1) Sometimes, when you build it they will come. Palmetto moved to Myrtle Beach for 2013, and Horry County has added at least a good six or eight teams.
2) Between 2008 (when Palmetto moved to Clemson) and 2011 (when we started hosting SCRIW), there was no hotel-free event for us at all. Our home regional is three hours each way and two hotel nights. Nobody said FIRST was fair.
3) Get some parents who are travel fiends helping you out. When we went to Orlando last year--one night in Jacksonville on the way down, two in Orlando--the bill for each room (not per-person, the whole room) was $227.57. Would've been less, but our plans got changed within two weeks of the tournament.
4) Let's be real, how many Georgia teams were going outside the Southeast for events (other than Championship)? I bet you can count them on one hand. How many Peachtree teams were coming from real distance? I see one out of 66 last year (4707, Dominican Republic), while literally every other team was from Georgia or a neighboring state. Georgia Southern Classic? One from Ohio, two from Louisiana. That's a total of four teams out of 107 regional slots that didn't come from Georgia or a neighboring state. You want to meet teams from all over the world? Gas up the bus, they weren't coming to you.
ghostmachine360
23-07-2015, 06:36
There is currently only one team registered near Athens
The events planned are not located near the majority of the teams currently registered
We attended XBots in Albany off season and hotel rooms were 114 plus tax cMe to 126 each
Total cost was 2500 including the entry fee for one night having the kids buy one meal and that was a one night trip with no transportation expenses
Food at 10 per meal is low in my opinion
Sorry just do not see the benefit when First talks of the world experience of international interaction , now they limit to only state interaction unless you make it to worlds
I'm pretty happy it's in Athens. As Billfred mentioned, teams came up after the move to Myrtle Beach, so any additions to the GeorgiaFIRST family are always welcome. Second, we have the privilege of being at one of the top institutions in Georgia & the US to host us. Don, if you want to get international interaction, there are many avenues you can pursue with your team. There are more regionals that don't clash with the Georgia district schedule that your team can attend. I also hear Skype and Facebook are still a thing. MySpace is still a question.
Is it held in Athens because UGA offered a good deal? That would make sense because UGA is definitely trying to promote it's new engineering program.
Billfred
25-07-2015, 22:22
Is it held in Athens because UGA offered a good deal? That would make sense because UGA is definitely trying to promote it's new engineering program.
I have no inside knowledge of the Georgia district system, but my experience with tournaments in FRC and other programs is that you go where the support is (financial, logistical, manpower, or any combination of them).
DonRotolo
27-07-2015, 19:31
Sorry just do not see the benefit when First talks of the world experience of international interaction , now they limit to only state interaction unless you make it to worldsOK, that's a fair statement. But the rest of the arguments just don't hold water, sorry.
Try districts for a year or two, if you don't like them you can choose to put your efforts elsewhere. But I bet a 24-tooth aluminum sprocket with hex bore that in June 2017 you will be a huge proponent of the district system.
I have seen the exact same thing in NJ, and others have seen it elsewhere, and it's always the same. In fact, I am thinking of relocating to Atlanta just to convince everyone how great this is going to be :D
Daniel_LaFleur
28-07-2015, 13:52
OK, that's a fair statement. But the rest of the arguments just don't hold water, sorry.
Try districts for a year or two, if you don't like them you can choose to put your efforts elsewhere. But I bet a 24-tooth aluminum sprocket with hex bore that in June 2017 you will be a huge proponent of the district system.
I have seen the exact same thing in NJ, and others have seen it elsewhere, and it's always the same. In fact, I am thinking of relocating to Atlanta just to convince everyone how great this is going to be :D
I have never been in the district systems.
My concerns aren't with the system itself, but in the details (that we haven't seen yet) such as:
1> Where is the volunteer base coming from (there is a big difference between a volunteer and a team member being told that they must 'volunteer').
2> Where is the growth in the district expected to come from, and how will that growth be handled
Truth be told, the devil is in the details. I'll withhold judgement until I see the system in action. In the end, I believe the district system is the best way to expand FIRST, but it's in its implementation is where the real successes and failures will happen.
I have never been in the district systems.
My concerns aren't with the system itself, but in the details (that we haven't seen yet) such as:
1> Where is the volunteer base coming from (there is a big difference between a volunteer and a team member being told that they must 'volunteer').
2> Where is the growth in the district expected to come from, and how will that growth be handled
Truth be told, the devil is in the details. I'll withhold judgement until I see the system in action. In the end, I believe the district system is the best way to expand FIRST, but it's in its implementation is where the real successes and failures will happen.
Only time will tell exactly how GA implements the District System as far as volunteers go. In the PNW we do not require teams to provide volunteers but we certainly encourage it. There have been a few cases where I stopped just short of begging for Robot Inspectors at one event where I was the LRI to ensure we had enough people to be able to get all teams inspected on load in night.
Fact is that with 10 events + DCMP we had to call on a number of our most dedicated volunteers more than we would have liked to our first season. It got better last season and we hope things will improve more for next season.
Kellen Hill
28-07-2015, 17:10
This is the transition I'm interested in seeing. On average, each team in Georgia will be attending 1.17 more events next year compared to 2015.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3HZZB7Y0Zunm7UAo0aHBUnDlaNlF06HXvZ4Wrf1i2-U=w310-h224-no
This assumes that, like Indiana, our State Championship event will have about 30 teams and that Georgia will have 5 more teams competing compared to 2015. From data I compiled, it looks like 58 teams competed from Georgia in 2015.
I'm excited for the extra event on average. More plays usually leads to higher quality competition. I expect the biggest challenge to be for the 37 teams that only participated in one event in 2015.
Anybody from Indiana have insight on how all of their 1 event teams handled the transition?
**
"Total Events Attended" is calculated using the following:
All teams attend 2 district events + 30 teams attend district champs + 12 teams qualify for world champs = Total Events Attended
This would only increase with the number of teams going to a third district event.
Nate Laverdure
28-07-2015, 17:31
All teams attend 2 district events + 30 teams attend district champs + 12 teams qualify for world champs
Won't it look like this then?
http://i.imgur.com/o8xU5Mq.png
EDIT: somebody please teach me how to count.
Won't it look like this then?
http://i.imgur.com/o8xU5Mq.pngI think you're counting the "4 event" teams in the "3 event" category. Typically these are tabulated exclusively rather than inclusively. (If I go to four events, I didn't go to three.) Presuming every team who goes to Worlds for GA attends State Champs, which isn't strictly but I think is usually true elsewhere.
DonRotolo
28-07-2015, 17:42
Truth be told, the devil is in the details.Absolutely Daniel. MAR does not require volunteers either, and we also work our key volunteers a bit too much. But everyone knows someone, and we've found that if an expectation of more volunteers is set, we rise to the occasion.a few cases where I stopped just short of begging for Robot Inspectors. I had to cross that line and beg at least once. But it worked :p
The real key to getting volunteers is treating them right.
1. Food must be plentiful and high-quality. And volunteers must be assured they have the time to enjoy it. For a Friday night/Sat/Sun event, volunteers get 3* dinners, 2 lunches and 2 breakfasts. (*3rd, on Sunday, if you help break down the field). Plus soft drinks all day.
2. Enlist students. A whole team of 20 kids can set up or break down a field pretty fast. The host school (almost every event is at a high school) and team has all their students volunteer, and other teams have a few kids volunteer for field reset and so on. And, kids need to know that after they leave High School, they'll probably want to volunteer at events, and this is great experience for when they want bigger roles, such as referee or Robot Inspector.
3. Alumni love to volunteer, make it easy for them to do so.
4. Not every mentor must be with the team all day every day. We went to an event where ALL the mentors stayed out of the pits the entire event. The kids loved it and did just fine. 3 hours as a Friday night RI is easy to do and helps tremendously.
Indeed, the devil is in the details. But one thing MAR made clear: There is no "they" - WE are MAR, all of us, together. Nobody else is going to do it.
Nate Laverdure
28-07-2015, 17:44
I think you're counting the "4 event" teams in the "3 event" category. Typically these are tabulated exclusively rather than inclusively. (If I go to four events, I didn't go to three.) Presuming every team who goes to Worlds for GA attends State Champs, which isn't strictly but I think is usually true elsewhere.
Oops, yeah, that was dumb.
The real key to getting volunteers is treating them right.
1. Food must be plentiful and high-quality. And volunteers must be assured they have the time to enjoy it. For a Friday night/Sat/Sun event, volunteers get 3* dinners, 2 lunches and 2 breakfasts. (*3rd, on Sunday, if you help break down the field). Plus soft drinks all day.
QFT. Let's just say that when you run out of food, the volunteers who couldn't break free earlier ain't happy. (OTOH... if you've got a lot of good leftovers after firsts, you got a lot of really happy volunteers!) Snacks also help.
That, and knowing where to recruit from.
Absolutely Daniel. MAR does not require volunteers either, and we also work our key volunteers a bit too much. But everyone knows someone, and we've found that if an expectation of more volunteers is set, we rise to the occasion.I had to cross that line and beg at least once. But it worked :p
The real key to getting volunteers is treating them right.
1. Food must be plentiful and high-quality. And volunteers must be assured they have the time to enjoy it. For a Friday night/Sat/Sun event, volunteers get 3* dinners, 2 lunches and 2 breakfasts. (*3rd, on Sunday, if you help break down the field). Plus soft drinks all day...
Thankfully there will not be a district at the GWCC. Food was not the best. Perry is the right size & place geographically, but Albany & Columbus both have very supportive teams.
Georgia First Volunteers also heavily support the Knoxville regional and presumably the inaugural Alabama Regional.
kristinweiss
29-07-2015, 11:24
QFT. Let's just say that when you run out of food, the volunteers who couldn't break free earlier ain't happy. (OTOH... if you've got a lot of good leftovers after firsts, you got a lot of really happy volunteers!) Snacks also help.
I just want to say that GA FIRST does an awesome job taking care of their volunteers with lots of good food and a snack bar between meals. It also helps that Coke is a sponsor of GA FIRST and volunteers get free unlimited Coke products. I'm pretty sure that most of the alumni college students come back to volunteer from year to year volunteer due to the (free) food.
OK, that's a fair statement. But the rest of the arguments just don't hold water, sorry.
Try districts for a year or two, if you don't like them you can choose to put your efforts elsewhere. But I bet a 24-tooth aluminum sprocket with hex bore that in June 2017 you will be a huge proponent of the district system.
I have seen the exact same thing in NJ, and others have seen it elsewhere, and it's always the same. In fact, I am thinking of relocating to Atlanta just to convince everyone how great this is going to be :D
This really makes me smile as Don R and I had a very similar conversation on the bleachers of the "pit competition field" in 2011.
It isn't all peaches and cream, and there is a lot of work, and a lot of stepping up required, but it is important to remember that if there is no room up top, then it is difficult for folks to step up. If a space is made, and an effort is applied to fill it, you will likely be impressed who jumps in.
I talk to a lot of people via CD or in person at Championship about districts. I am a big proponent, and most of them know it. I believe that most people are honest with me, and only small percentage (usually 1-2 persons per year) would want to "go back to how it was". With interdistrict play now allowed, it was even a smaller amount of complaints than most years.
ghostmachine360
31-07-2015, 11:15
I just want to say that GA FIRST does an awesome job taking care of their volunteers with lots of good food and a snack bar between meals. It also helps that Coke is a sponsor of GA FIRST and volunteers get free unlimited Coke products. I'm pretty sure that most of the alumni college students come back to volunteer from year to year volunteer due to the (free) food.
#thankyoubasedCoke
One of the best things about GeorgiaFIRST is that we're always expanding our volunteer base in general; we will be stretched thin possibly this year (between our own district, Knoxville, and Alabama), but we're already on our way to finding our counterparts for a lot of the key volunteers. Luckily, Tony and I as MCs can be split apart (not willingly :( ), and we've started to train our counterparts with our off-season events as well with the Key Volunteer positions. Just trained our new MC down in Albany, and we've got a couple people in the works for Macon. I'll probably do any of the competitions in the metropolitan ATL area, as well as doing the State CMP. Connie & our two new co-VCs Elizabeth & Casey won't have a problem getting the needed volunteers. :D Just with this past first year with Elizabeth & Casey, I've never felt more welcomed and loved. Back massages and Dairy Queen? I'm all in.
MoistRobot
17-08-2015, 12:44
FYI- Per this past weekend's GA MAC meeting GA districts will be:
3/10-12 - Columbus Convention Center (tentative)
3/17-19 - Albany Convention Center and Dalton Convention Center
4/8-10 - Kennesaw State University
4/14-16 - University of Georgia (district champs)
Just to clarify it for fast readers:
3/10-12 - Columbus Convention Center (tentative)
3/17-19 - Albany Convention Center
3/17-19 - Dalton Convention Center
4/8-10 - Kennesaw State University
4/14-16 - University of Georgia (district champs)
Four events + One Champ.
nighterfighter
17-08-2015, 16:37
Just to clarify it for fast readers:
3/10-12 - Columbus Convention Center (tentative)
3/17-19 - Albany Convention Center
3/17-19 - Dalton Convention Center
4/8-10 - Kennesaw State University
4/14-16 - University of Georgia (district champs)
Four events + One Champ.
Interesting.
Do you happen to know which campus the Kennesaw State University will be hosting the event? The Kennesaw campus, or the formerly-known-as SPSU Campus, in Marietta?
Interesting.
Do you happen to know which campus the Kennesaw State University will be hosting the event? The Kennesaw campus, or the formerly-known-as SPSU Campus, in Marietta?
The Kennesaw campus. SPSU's Campus doesn't have a venue big enough.
nighterfighter
17-08-2015, 16:46
The Kennesaw campus. SPSU's Campus doesn't have a venue big enough.
Thanks for the quick reply!
Being a current student, residing on the Kennesaw Campus, this makes me quite excited.
Being a current student, residing on the Kennesaw Campus, this makes me quite excited.
You DO realize that that statement just made you a prime target for the Volunteer Coordinator for that district event, right? (Assuming you weren't one already.)
GaryVoshol
18-08-2015, 16:58
I'm wondering how GA is going to save money going to the district system. Are all these schools donating their space for district events, like high schools do in other Districts? (I understand FiM gets a really good deal at Kettering and GVSU, which is why these two events are not in high schools.)
ttldomination
18-08-2015, 17:30
3/10-12 - Columbus Convention Center (tentative)
3/17-19 - Albany Convention Center
3/17-19 - Dalton Convention Center
4/8-10 - Kennesaw State University
4/14-16 - University of Georgia (district champs)
That KSU event is going to be...hot, to say the least.
If your team doesn't get into the KSU event, then you're playing back to back districts. If you do go to the KSU event, you're playing back to back with a district and champs.
I understand that there are a ton of complexities with coordinating venues and stuff, but this lineup is extremely rough.
- Sunny G.
I'm wondering how GA is going to save money going to the district system. Are all these schools donating their space for district events, like high schools do in other Districts? (I understand FiM gets a really good deal at Kettering and GVSU, which is why these two events are not in high schools.)
GWCC (Peachtree) was really expensive. Not only rent on the space, but the need to use their vendors for everything. Perry (Goober Pea) was less so.
logank013
19-08-2015, 13:38
I'm wondering how GA is going to save money going to the district system. Are all these schools donating their space for district events, like high schools do in other Districts? (I understand FiM gets a really good deal at Kettering and GVSU, which is why these two events are not in high schools.)
I'm not fully sure how how Indiana FIRST or in your case, Georgia FIRST makes prices this low but district events to teams, are a lot cheaper. I know by the time we got past the District Championship, The price was the equivalent to the price of two regionals. The first 2 district events were $2,500 and the third (Not required) was $1.000. Then the district championship was $4,000. In all, that cost us $10,000. Plus whatever Worlds cost. So basically, you can get to worlds by $9,000 if you so choose. Plus, say your team isn't good enough to go to district champs, then all they spend is $5,000.
So it isn't necessarily cheaper event wise but, you save money if you aren't good that year. Plus, with district events being closer, you don't have to spend nearly as much on hotels compared to if you go to regionals. I know my team stayed at hotels at 2 of our 4 district events and that was just because we had the money/ sponsorship to and was convenient. The biggest drive we ever had to make was 1 hour and 30 minutes. I know of some teams in our area never stayed at hotels because they could save money that way.
Another thing about the districts is that you are more capable of making it to worlds versus going to 2 regionals. In Indiana, we were guaranteed 10 spots for worlds but were able to send 14 out of our 49 teams due to wait list and the fact that Team 45 is an original team. I know that a good amount of the teams that made it to worlds from IN may have not been able to win a regional due to bad luck. So if you actually have a good bot in your district, you don't have to win an event to make it to worlds.
All in all, the districts save you money on hotels mainly and, you have a better chance at making it to worlds if your robot is good and you run into some bad luck. being apart of a district gives you many advantages and money is definitely a big factor.
I'm not sure how Georgia will make there spots for worlds but, Indiana FIRST's spots were as following:
3 Spots: Winner (234, 1024, 292)
1 Spot: Chairman's (135*)
1 Spot: Engineering Inspiration (1501)
1 Spot: Rookie All Star (5403)
4+1 Spots: Next teams based on District Points (5188, 71, 5402, 1720, 1741*)
For this year we had these additional spots given to us:
2 Spots: Wait List (135*, 829)
1 Spot: Original Team (45)
1 Spot: TBH, I'm not sure (3940)
*135 was given the Chairman's award. They were previously accepted in via the Wait List. This added 1 more spot to Next teams based on District Points. This allowed 1741 to go to worlds. The same thing would happen if the winner of the event wins 1 of 3 "Big" awards or get in on the wait list. Same would also happen if the winner of RAS or EI got in on wait list too.
Hope I didn't make this too complicated. Thanks for reading.
...
I'm fairly sure GaryVoshol was referring to the cost of the event from the perspective of the GeorgiaFIRST, not the team. Districts definitely lower team expenses but the district organization picks up the financial responsibility of running events.
logank013
19-08-2015, 13:48
I'm fairly sure GaryVoshol was referring to the cost of the event from the perspective of the GeorgiaFIRST, not the team. Districts definitely lower team expenses but the district organization picks up the financial responsibility of running events.
Definitely. In Indiana, 3 of 4 event held here including the championships were at high schools, I imagine that high schools donate their space. The only event we had that wasn't at a high schools was in 2 high school size gyms at the rec center at Purdue and I imagine that wasn't too expensive.
The entry fee goes to US First not the State entities. Much of the cost of putting on an event is born directly by the state/regional entity. (Ga First in this case). Few of the venues are completely free and even then there are support costs. I am not privy to the actually numbers, but as a WAG I suspect you could put on 4 average district events for the price of Peachtree at the world congress center.
None of the Georgia districts this year are at high schools. Several are at smaller civic centers. Venues will not be donated at least for this year.
The entry fee goes to US First not the State entities.
Just to clarify, as far as I understand it, your initial team registration fee and your district championship registration fee goes to USFIRST HQ. If you sign up for a third in-district play, that registration fee will go to your district organization.
So, if you want to support your state/region's organization, play more districts! :)
Nate Laverdure
19-08-2015, 16:49
Your initial team registration fee and your district championship registration fee goes to USFIRST HQ. If you sign up for a third in-district play, that registration fee will go to your district organization.
After this registration phase, FIRST Manchester then provides each district with $1k per registered team.
-----
Assume you are GAFIRST. Assume your sponsor community continues to fund your organization at 2015 levels. Assume you have no other operating costs other than event production. Assume you have had zero team growth since the 2015 competition season.
In 2015 you ran two regional competitions, which cost you approximately $150k each (say). Assume also that the district championship will cost you approximately as much as a regional did, so say you have a balance of 150k that you can apply to your four district events.
But you also have a new income source-- FIRST HQ! They pay you in two ways:
-- You have 58 teams, for which you get $1k each.
-- You will run 4 district events with capacity for 40 teams each, which means you have 160 plays available. This means if you fill each event to capacity (assume this happens), then 44 teams will be playing 3rd plays, for which you also get $1k each.
This leaves you with $150k + 58k + 44K = 252k to run your four district events. Thus, you will break even, compared to your 2015 expenses, as long as the average cost to run a GA district event is less than $63k.
Alan Anderson
19-08-2015, 17:46
Definitely. In Indiana, 3 of 4 event held here including the championships were at high schools, I imagine that high schools donate their space. The only event we had that wasn't at a high schools was in 2 high school size gyms at the rec center at Purdue and I imagine that wasn't too expensive.
Imagination is important, but try not to use it as a substitute for actual information. In addition to paying for the use of the facility, the Purdue district event had to rent bleachers, which had always been a major expense for the Boilermaker Regional.
None of the Georgia districts this year are at high schools. Several are at smaller civic centers.
To make a fine point.
100 % of the Georgia District events are embraced and hosted by units of
USG - University System of Georgia, this is the system than contains GT, UGA, KSU, CSU, etc
TCSG - Technical College System of Georgia, the state technical Colleges
GCCAN - Georgia College and Career Academy Network
Even though the events may be at a Civic Center, or Convention Center, the hosts are USG, TCSG, GCCAN units.
To date, there has never been a District system that was 100% university/college embraced.
.
.
To make a fine point.
100 % of the Georgia District events are embraced and hosted by units of:
USG - University System of Georgia, this is the system than contains GT.....
It's just too bad there are no events in the city. All those potential GT volunteers....
It's just too bad there are no events in the city. All those potential GT volunteers....
It's only 20 miles up the street, easy to get to.
vikesrock777
20-08-2015, 00:43
It's only 20 miles up the street, easy to get to.
As a leader of the Georgia Tech RoboJackets, a group that helps provide volunteers for the event, I would disagree with your dismissal of this "small" distance.
Our students usually have varying levels of commitment they can give to volunteering. Ideally, everyone would be able to devote their full weekend, but we typically have students whose schedules and availability don't allow that. It is not at all unusual for us to have multiple students only show up for half of a day. This becomes much harder to facilitate with this new location. Most of the time these students would walk to or from campus or be given a ride by one of us other volunteers. Walking to or from the event is now completely out of the question, and giving them a ride now changes from a short trip to an hour long commitment.
You definitely won't lose all your GT volunteers. Those you're most likely to lose aren't in your key volunteering roles. However, with distance and the change in event timing, you definitely will lose some.
logank013
20-08-2015, 08:45
Imagination is important, but try not to use it as a substitute for actual information. In addition to paying for the use of the facility, the Purdue district event had to rent bleachers, which had always been a major expense for the Boilermaker Regional.
Haha. Thanks. I probably should have made it more clear that ll my information was a guess. That is my fault.
Ed here is the link form GAFirst website and the first sentence states?
http://www.gafirst.org/images/GA_FIRST/District/Georgia_FIRST_Robotics_District_Model_2016.pdf
Here is the first sentence from the document posted:
"As an FRC team, you will be required to compete in two district qualifying events within the state of Georgia."
How is that poorly worded? It clearly states you must compete in two district events.
I am wondering when all the rules will be released from GA First we have about four weeks from today for registration start.
Ed here is the link form GAFirst website and the first sentence states?
http://www.gafirst.org/images/GA_FIRST/District/Georgia_FIRST_Robotics_District_Model_2016.pdf
Here is the first sentence from the document posted:
"As an FRC team, you will be required to compete in two district qualifying events within the state of Georgia."
How is that poorly worded? It clearly states you must compete in two district events.
I am wondering when all the rules will be released from GA First we have about four weeks from today for registration start.
It is poorly worded because it says you are required to compete in two events when it should say that you get to compete in two events. No other district requires teams to compete in two events but it would be unlikely to move on to DCMP and CMP if you only compete in one qualifying event. (a team certainly could win CA attending a single district event, move on to DCMP from that and then qualify for CMP with CA, EI or DCMP winner)
Yes it is unusual for a team to compete in one event but that has happened in the PNW district.
ttldomination
30-08-2015, 01:51
I am wondering when all the rules will be released from GA First we have about four weeks from today for registration start.
I don't know how much liberty the specific regional governing body as far as advancements and play-times as such.
With that being said, a lot of the district-level rules (advancing, points, etc.) are laid out in last year's rulebook.
- Sunny G.
I have no special knowledge of special rules discussion for GA. I do know there are some elements that would prefer more heavily weighting of the non robot awards. First is not about the robot after all. Whatever rules there are will presumably be published in the administrative manual. It seems that since First values uniformity Ga will be playing under the same rules the general districts (meaning largely not MI)
Anupam Goli
30-08-2015, 11:15
... I do know there are some elements that would prefer more heavily weighting of the non robot awards. First is not about the robot after all. ...
I have a better idea. EI and Chairman's excluded, the only way to gain points in the district system should be based on robot performance and robot awards.
/edgy
I do know there are some elements that would prefer more heavily weighting of the non robot awards. First is not about the robot after all.
IMHO, the judged awards (excluding EI and Chairman's) are weighted well enough considering the cutoff for district championships. Chairman's gains automatic entry to the next level, so the amount of points it provides is relatively irrelevant. EI could and possibly should be weighted more highly than 8 points, but at most it shouldn't be over 12 points.
At the end of the day, the District Championship and Worlds want to have the best robots in the world competing for the crown. This is NOT to say that they don't care about the judged awards: they do, especially EI and Chairman's. But since the robot construction and competition is the main attraction of students, mentors, and sponsors, it makes sense that a large majority of the field is attending because of robot quality.
Ed here is the link form GAFirst website and the first sentence states?
http://www.gafirst.org/images/GA_FIRST/District/Georgia_FIRST_Robotics_District_Model_2016.pdf
Here is the first sentence from the document posted:
"As an FRC team, you will be required to compete in two district qualifying events within the state of Georgia."
How is that poorly worded? It clearly states you must compete in two district events.
I am wondering when all the rules will be released from GA First we have about four weeks from today for registration start.
The new wording will become "All teams are required to compete in two FRC qualifier events in order to advance to the state event. (Exceptions: Chairman's Award - automatic slot at state championship event (with robot), Engineering Inspiration and Rookie All-Star - can compete at the state championship in regard to each judged award but not with the robot, unless the robot ranks high enough in the points ranking system)."
IMHO, the judged awards (excluding EI and Chairman's) are weighted well enough considering the cutoff for district championships. Chairman's gains automatic entry to the next level, so the amount of points it provides is relatively irrelevant. EI could and possibly should be weighted more highly than 8 points, but at most it shouldn't be over 12 points.
At the end of the day, the District Championship and Worlds want to have the best robots in the world competing for the crown. This is NOT to say that they don't care about the judged awards: they do, especially EI and Chairman's. But since the robot construction and competition is the main attraction of students, mentors, and sponsors, it makes sense that a large majority of the field is attending because of robot quality.
Truth in advertising, while my team makes a pretty good robot, our outreach (EI, Chairman's) is way better. I am not really the one advocating a change. BUT.
Being a rookie gives you the same points as a district chairman's, 2 more than EI, & 5 more than the other judged awards, some of which are based on robot quality. EI will not even get your robot to district Champs. The stated goal for championships is to give every team a chance to attend. If you read First management's statement (http://www.usfirst.org/aboutus/2017-first-championship-announcement) on the expanded Championship. First's goal is to get young people into STEM, not to build robots.
Please do not read into this what my opinion on the points system is. Other than its complicated and you won't satisfy everybody. Other than that I really have not though about enough to have a strong opinion.
IMHO, the judged awards (excluding EI and Chairman's) are weighted well enough considering the cutoff for district championships. Chairman's gains automatic entry to the next level, so the amount of points it provides is relatively irrelevant. EI could and possibly should be weighted more highly than 8 points, but at most it shouldn't be over 12 points.
At the end of the day, the District Championship and Worlds want to have the best robots in the world competing for the crown. This is NOT to say that they don't care about the judged awards: they do, especially EI and Chairman's. But since the robot construction and competition is the main attraction of students, mentors, and sponsors, it makes sense that a large majority of the field is attending because of robot quality.
Yes winning CA at a district event gets your team and robot a spot at DCMP but once you are there you are competing for CA against an even tougher set of teams. So I would not say the 10 points earned are irrelevant since they are still a part of your total points used to determine earning a spot at CMP and since it usually comes down to a 1 or 2 point difference at the cut off point, 10 points is huge. For example places 34-39 were each separated by 1 point in the PNW this season. Yes we technically only send 32 teams but there are declines so it was down to 1 point being the deciding factor of the lowest team to qualify.
logank013
31-08-2015, 13:30
Yes winning CA at a district event gets your team and robot a spot at DCMP but once you are there you are competing for CA against an even tougher set of teams. So I would not say the 10 points earned are irrelevant since they are still a part of your total points used to determine earning a spot at CMP and since it usually comes down to a 1 or 2 point difference at the cut off point, 10 points is huge. For example places 34-39 were each separated by 1 point in the PNW this season. Yes we technically only send 32 teams but there are declines so it was down to 1 point being the deciding factor of the lowest team to qualify.
Agreed. In Indiana Districts, 1741 only beat 447 out by 9 points. And that was because 1741 won 3 5-point awards (One of which was triple weighted due to being at district champs) so that was equal to 25 points. team 447 got no points for awards so awards make a difference.
Agreed. In Indiana Districts, 1741 only beat 447 out by 9 points. And that was because 1741 won 3 5-point awards (One of which was triple weighted due to being at district champs) so that was equal to 25 points. team 447 got no points for awards so awards make a difference.
I am not saying awards do not make a difference. All the regions clearly show that those points can be the difference for 2-8 teams. However, I am saying that, with the exception of Engineering Inspiration (which should either increase in point value or allow automatic DCMP) the awards provide sufficient value, including the Chairman's award.
I am not saying awards do not make a difference. All the regions clearly show that those points can be the difference for 2-8 teams. However, I am saying that, with the exception of Engineering Inspiration (which should either increase in point value or allow automatic DCMP) the awards provide sufficient value, including the Chairman's award.
But you said that the Chairman's points were relatively irrelevant. Fact is every point matters for qualifying for CMP, so CA needs to be properly weighted for that consideration even if it gets you an automatic entry with your robot to DCMP. Competition for CA at DCMP can be very stiff and some districts are only able to send 1 CA winner to CMP.
I think it is weighted just about right currently vs the point values for the other awards.
Lil' Lavery
31-08-2015, 17:36
I am not saying awards do not make a difference. All the regions clearly show that those points can be the difference for 2-8 teams. However, I am saying that, with the exception of Engineering Inspiration (which should either increase in point value or allow automatic DCMP) the awards provide sufficient value, including the Chairman's award.
So, you think winning 2 qualification matches at the DCMP is more important than winning a Chairman's Award at a district event? Because that's the two are currently valued.
So, you think winning 2 qualification matches at the DCMP is more important than winning a Chairman's Award at a district event? Because that's the two are currently valued.
You're choosing to ignore the fact that the Chairman's automatically qualifies the winner to attend District Championship. That is worth significantly more than 10 points, especially for teams on the bubble of making it to District Championship, because no team that failed to qualify for the DCMP managed to make it to Worlds (through the district model, this does not include waitlist/outside regionals).
The teams 34-39 in the PNW region all easily qualified for the DCMP without the CA award (the fewest any of them scored is 69 points heading into the event). They all finished with 118.5 points as an average, all within one point of the team above and below them. In this case, if any of these teams won the Chairman's award, the most they would have needed is just three points to qualify, not even close to 10. The only other team within striking distance to a birth to Worlds AND ALSO won a Chairman's award was at 108 points, meaning that instead of the 10 point gift, they would have needed 21(!!!) points from the CA to qualify for Worlds. To me, that seems excessive, though I am sure it is not to everyone.
I'm sure there have been a few cases across the country since district implementation where a District Chairman's winning team failed to qualify for Worlds based on the difference of a few (three or fewer) points. But since the CA automatically qualifies a team for the next level of competition, I honestly think that the level of compensation is rather fair. Please excuse me for using "irrelevant" before, I think the proper term I was searching for was "reasonable".
ttldomination
21-09-2015, 11:12
So, a couple of us did a fun little analysis of how teams in GA stack up in the district points system.
We took all GA teams and gave them points according to their performance last season. Here are some assumptions we took:
1) We did not account for points that were awards to out-of-state teams.
2) We only counted the team's first two events, regardless of location.
3) If a team only went to one event, we doubled their score.
Based on the criteria above, the top 10 teams (in order) are:
4468 - 1 Event(s) - 127.8 Normalized Points
5608 - 1 Event(s) - 127.8 Normalized Points
2974 - 2 Event(s) - 123.9 Normalized Points
1261 - 2 Event(s) - 92.9 Normalized Points
1746 - 2 Event(s) - 92 Normalized Points
2415 - 2 Event(s) - 86.9 Normalized Points
1414 - 1 Event(s) - 80 Normalized Points
3329 - 1 Event(s) - 80 Normalized Points
1648 - 2 Event(s) - 75.9 Normalized Points
4188 - 2 Event(s) - 74.9 Normalized Points
Assuming that 40 teams end up attending state championships, the points cut off was at a mere 22 points.
However, 1-event teams like 4468 absolutely killed it at Peachtree, and while we can never know for sure, it's is unlikely that they would've repeated their 1-event performance earlier in the season. If we attempt to adjust for this, the top 10 teams become:
2974 - 2 Events - 123.9 Normalized 1-Event Bias Points
4468 - 1 Events - 95.85 Normalized 1-Event Bias Points
5608 - 1 Events - 95.85 Normalized 1-Event Bias Points
1261 - 2 Events - 92.9 Normalized 1-Event Bias Points
1746 - 2 Events - 92 Normalized 1-Event Bias Points
2415 - 2 Events - 86.9 Normalized 1-Event Bias Points
1648 - 2 Events - 75.9 Normalized 1-Event Bias Points
4188 - 2 Events - 74.9 Normalized 1-Event Bias Points
4189 - 2 Events - 73 Normalized 1-Event Bias Points
1414 - 1 Events - 60 Normalized 1-Event Bias Points
Assuming that 40 teams end up attending state championships, the points cut off slightly increases to 22.5 points.
Just some fun numbers,
- Sunny G.
Nice analysis! Team 4188 bottomed out at Perry so it shows a team can still make state if they have a decent turn around in their next district event.
Om another note, which district events will fill up first?
Week 2 Columbus
Week 3 Albany
Week 3 Dalton
Week 6 Kennesaw
Seems like Kennesaw with all the ATL teams.
Any thoughts?
Nice analysis! Team 4188 bottomed out at Perry so it shows a team can still make state if they have a decent turn around in their next district event.
Om another note, which district events will fill up first?
Week 2 Columbus
Week 3 Albany
Week 3 Dalton
Week 6 Kennesaw
Seems like Kennesaw with all the ATL teams.
Any thoughts?
Just by sheer logic, Kennesaw will fill the fastest. However, Columbus will also fill at a decent rate, so don't sleep on it. With two week 3 events, those will be the slowest to fill.
Unfortunately, Week 3 collides with GA TSA so a lot of teams will have no choice but to go to week 2 and 6 ...
Unfortunately, Week 3 collides with GA TSA so a lot of teams will have no choice but to go to week 2 and 6 ...
With the initial capacity of 32 teams, going to both weeks 2 & 6 will not be an option for many teams. I suspect the Kennesaw will reach the wait list tomorrow.
jman4747
24-09-2015, 09:17
Set multiple alarms on several devises... check
Have windows and google chrome keyboard commands memorized... check
wired mouse... check
clean mice and keyboard... check
firefox and EE web browsers up and ready to log in... check
backup computer ready... check
use shortest possible Ethernet cable... check
Remove unnecessary devises from router and wifi network... check
Caleb Sykes
24-09-2015, 10:08
Set multiple alarms on several devises... check
Have windows and google chrome keyboard commands memorized... check
wired mouse... check
clean mice and keyboard... check
firefox and EE web browsers up and ready to log in... check
backup computer ready... check
use shortest possible Ethernet cable... check
Remove unnecessary devises from router and wifi network... check
Now all you have to do is make a robot to register for you.
zachrobo1
27-09-2015, 14:13
So far, registration has amounted to:
Columbus: 12
Dalton: 4
Albany: 2
Kennesaw: 23
Bringing the total number of teams signed up for events so far to 41.
Registration as of 10/14/15:
Columbus (Week 2): 29/32
Albany (Week 3): 11/32
Dalton (Week 3): 20/32
Kennesaw (Week 6): 32/32
I think we have an interesting scenario here, one that I don't ever recall happening before. Both Dalton and Albany do not have the 24 teams necessary to run a standard event, and Albany is especially low. It is also an interesting point to note that Dalton has just enough remaining open spots. It is possible that, after third event registration, Dalton reaches 24 teams, but I find it highly unlikely that Albany will more than double its team count.
What would GeorgiaFIRST do to resolve this issue? Combine the Dalton and Albany events? Scratch the Albany event and allow the teams who signed up for Albany sign up for another event? Run the event with the low number of teams? Or something else?
Has this ever happened before and I just don't know about it?
Pratik Kunapuli
14-10-2015, 14:30
What would GeorgiaFIRST do to resolve this issue? Combine the Dalton and Albany events? Scratch the Albany event and allow the teams who signed up for Albany sign up for another event? Run the event with the low number of teams? Or something else?
Has this ever happened before and I just don't know about it?
Precedent exists for an event running with very few teams. The 2008 Brazil Regional ran with only 13 teams competing, where the elimination bracket consisted of just 4 alliances. Ultimately, GA FIRST might incentivize teams to sign up for a 3rd district event and the team numbers for both the week 3 events might go up. We just have to wait and see.
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