View Full Version : Event with 30,0000 HS students in Detroit.
I'm not posting this to :deadhorse: again, and I don't want this turning into a battle of Detroit vs Everybody either. However, on my way downtown for work today, traffic was much more congested than usual and full of school/charter buses. This could mean only one thing - big event.
For those of you concerned for your safety with half of the World Championship coming to Detroit, this weekend should be a good test. Detroit is hosting the ELCA Youth Gathering this week. It's a 5 day event (religious/service) for high school students throughout the world. They are expecting 30,000 students and their adult leaders at the event. Most of the event activities are taking place in Cobo/Ford Field. Sound Familiar?
While I'm not a part of this, I can see the large groups shuffling around from atop the Renaissance Center. I also have a few friends that are acting as group leaders for the event. I'll be sure to hit them up for feedback on how they felt when all is said and done.
notmattlythgoe
16-07-2015, 12:09
My only problem with Detroit is the fact that FIRST is touting the 2 champs as a way to pull in new people. I really don't think Michigan needs any help in that regard...
Thanks for looking at real situations, and not just hypothesizing, Mullen.
Though, as a SoCal team, we're probably looking at Houston as our destination.
Ryan_Todd
16-07-2015, 14:22
I was wondering what was the deal with all the buses! :ahh:
It will indeed be worth watching to see how this event turns out.
Thanks for looking at real situations, and not just hypothesizing, Mullen.
Though, as a SoCal team, we're probably looking at Houston as our destination.
probably is an understatement.
wilsonmw04
16-07-2015, 16:11
Thanks for looking at real situations, and not just hypothesizing, Mullen.
Though, as a SoCal team, we're probably looking at Houston as our destination.
There will be no "looking" for your events. You will be told where to go.
orangemoore
16-07-2015, 16:26
There will be no "looking" for your events. You will be told where to go.
I'm fairly sure Houston would be closer to California than Detroit
wilsonmw04
16-07-2015, 17:18
I'm fairly sure Houston would be closer to California than Detroit
I have a feeling that many people will be surprised where they end up.
I'm fairly sure Houston would be closer to California than Detroit
You'd be surprised how close they were. If you're from Northern California, the difference is only about 225 miles or so.
Google maps:
Crescent City, CA to Detroit, MI: 2505 mi
Crescent City, CA to Houston, TX: 2276 mi
orangemoore
16-07-2015, 17:36
You'd be surprised how close they were. If you're from Northern California, the difference is only about 225 miles or so.
Google maps:
Crescent City, CA to Detroit, MI: 2505 mi
Crescent City, CA to Houston, TX: 2276 mi
:eek: It's a little closer than I would think it would be. For my team since were in Chicago I would bet we would end up in Detroit since its about 700 miles closer. I didn't think that one out very much.
Lil' Lavery
16-07-2015, 17:51
There will be no "looking" for your events. You will be told where to go.
Care to share more unreleased details about how they're going to distribute events?
Please don't spin your conjecture as fact. FIRST already said they were looking at ways to allow for cross-pollination of teams between the two events.
OK ok ok... when I said "looking at Houston" I was talking about what the town is like, and how it handles 15k+ kids, not as a choice between champs.
Also, I was trying to be positive. ;)
MichaelMcQuinn
16-07-2015, 19:26
Interesting.. With so much attention on Detroit, what about safety in Houston? Can someone in the Houston area vouch for this?
wilsonmw04
16-07-2015, 22:32
Care to share more unreleased details about how they're going to distribute events?
I was simply relating the information that has already been released: There will be a geographic split for the two Championship Model. This information is not new and should not be a surprise to anyone.
Lil' Lavery
16-07-2015, 22:38
I was simply relating the information that has already been released: There will be a geographic split for the two Championship Model. This information is not new and should not be a surprise to anyone.
Bullet point #2. This information is not new and should not be a surprise to anyone.
http://wiki.team1640.com/images/1/1b/Town_Hall_Slides-7.jpg
Did anyone else read this like I did (emphasis mine)?
We are exploring ...options for a post-season, broadcasted event between winning alliances
If there's a better venue for a meeting of the alliances of the (two or more) championships, I've yet to hear of it. This would probably mean that the alliance matchup would be played by FRC rules, not IRI updates, making this an event within the event. Sounds like a win-win for both FRC and IRI to me.
hectorcastillo
17-07-2015, 00:31
If my team somehow helps lower crime rates in both cities, do you think we'll have a good shot for the safety award?
wilsonmw04
17-07-2015, 07:22
Bullet point #2.
Split hairs much? "Looking into" and "what is right now" are two entirely different things. If they come out with this plan, I'll revise my statement. Until that time, my statement is 100% accurate.
Lil' Lavery
17-07-2015, 09:54
Split hairs much? "Looking into" and "what is right now" are two entirely different things. If they come out with this plan, I'll revise my statement. Until that time, my statement is 100% accurate.
It's not splitting hairs. You're making a statement as fact, when FIRST has not officially announced anything official regarding how they are determining championship slots. Further still, they have announced that they are investigating something that goes contrary to your statement. Rather than making declarative statements, you should present the full picture.
Citrus Dad
17-07-2015, 16:12
Did anyone else read this like I did (emphasis mine)?
If there's a better venue for a meeting of the alliances of the (two or more) championships, I've yet to hear of it. This would probably mean that the alliance matchup would be played by FRC rules, not IRI updates, making this an event within the event. Sounds like a win-win for both FRC and IRI to me.
There's been long discussions in three different threads on how this might work, and how many hurdles exist to pulling it off, most importantly that it could be very difficult to get the COMPLETE "winning" alliances (or a larger group of Einstein competitors) to a third venue outside of the already existing two-week period.
Citrus Dad
17-07-2015, 16:20
It's not splitting hairs. You're making a statement as fact, when FIRST has not officially announced anything official regarding how they are determining championship slots. Further still, they have announced that they are investigating something that goes contrary to your statement. Rather than making declarative statements, you should present the full picture.
Given that the Number 1 objective stated by FIRST for Championsplit is reducing travel costs and given the distribution of teams across North America, by far the highest probability is that California will be assigned largely to Houston, and a statement by a California team that they are focused much more on Houston rather than Detroit is completely valid. We all have to act on the information we have given the lack of information from FIRST on the topic (which reflects the tone-deaf, insular way in which this proposal was rolled out in the first place). FIRST should have either (1) explored multiple concepts with community with an open book and then formulated a response or (2) released a very comprehensive, well considered, detailed plan. Instead they released a half-considered plan that anyone with experience sees is a political trainwreck in the making.
Lil' Lavery
17-07-2015, 17:13
Given that the Number 1 objective stated by FIRST for Championsplit is reducing travel costs and given the distribution of teams across North America, by far the highest probability is that California will be assigned largely to Houston, and a statement by a California team that they are focused much more on Houston rather than Detroit is completely valid.
I never disputed any of that. What I disputed was the statement that was in response to that, which was stated as a fact when the area is still up for potential change.
We all have to act on the information we have given the lack of information from FIRST on the topic (which reflects the tone-deaf, insular way in which this proposal was rolled out in the first place). FIRST should have either (1) explored multiple concepts with community with an open book and then formulated a response or (2) released a very comprehensive, well considered, detailed plan. Instead they released a half-considered plan that anyone with experience sees is a political trainwreck in the making.
Save this for the other 10000 threads on this topic. Your vitriol is getting tiresome.
PayneTrain
17-07-2015, 19:09
So far this thread is causing more of a headache than any congestion in Detroit.
Ryan_Todd
20-07-2015, 14:22
So far this thread is causing more of a headache than any congestion in Detroit.
^^^ This.
Traffic-wise, the only difference I noticed in the Metro area was on that first day with all the buses rolling through; I assume that the same happened again yesterday, but I wasn't out and about at the time. I also wasn't downtown during this timeframe, so I can't give any more specific info about the local effects; do we have anyone that actually did see this firsthand?
AdamHeard
20-07-2015, 14:24
So what's the death toll?
nikeairmancurry
20-07-2015, 15:29
zero point zero.
From what I've heard, no major incidences. There were a few people who had their cars broken into, but none of those happened downtown - they were outside of the city at hotels. We hear of those happening at St.Louis and where ever else all the time, not a shocker.
My friends' groups never felt in danger and spent all weekend walking around the city.
Am I surprised by this? Not at all.
Can we put this whole "Detroit isn't a safe place to bring my teenagers" thing to bed now?
Also, this thread has nothing to do with how FIRST will divvy up who is going where or general CMP logistics, so stop.
As a member of the ELCA and a participant in the ELCA youth gathering that recently happened in Detroit, I am happy to answer any logistical question to the best of my abilities. I would also like to mention the irony that the two places for champs, Huston and Detroit are both hosting the ELCA youth gathering. Huston is the 2018 location for the ELCA youth gathering just as a heads up for anyone who is interested.
Paxaplenty
22-07-2015, 02:21
As a member of the ELCA and a participant in the ELCA youth gathering that recently happened in Detroit, I am happy to answer any logistical question to the best of my abilities. I would also like to mention the irony that the two places for champs, Huston and Detroit are both hosting the ELCA youth gathering. Huston is the 2018 location for the ELCA youth gathering just as a heads up for anyone who is interested.
Would you have the gathering ever again in Detroit?
Would you have the gathering ever again in Detroit?
Yes I would. The people were very kind and the city was beautiful and has bounced back well from bankruptcy. Additionally, they are doing repairs to Cobo center to make it even better than it is currently which is still a nice complex.
Citrus Dad
22-07-2015, 16:53
I never disputed any of that. What I disputed was the statement that was in response to that, which was stated as a fact when the area is still up for potential change.
Save this for the other 10000 threads on this topic. Your vitriol is getting tiresome.
You shouldn't have brought up the topic if you didn't want to hear the responses.
Ninja_Fish
22-07-2015, 23:58
Just no one drive a non American made car in Detroit and you should be good...
nikeairmancurry
23-07-2015, 08:35
Just no one drive a non American made car in Detroit and you should be good...
Bad stereotype. All cars are welcomed.
Ryan_Todd
23-07-2015, 11:11
Just no one drive a non American made car in Detroit and you should be good...
Haha, very funny. :p
Bad stereotype. All cars are welcomed.
Indeed, southeast Michigan actually sees more break-ins to American-made vehicles these days. That's just because there are a lot more American-made cars in this region, however, which in turn is merely the result of employer / family / friend loyalty leading naturally to customer loyalty.
There's nothing special about the Detroit area any more, really; it's just a regular city with regular people. You can still see the history if you're looking for it, like entire blocks in the suburbs converted to fields of grass after the residents moved out, but there's also plenty of new construction and economic growth downtown to balance it out. That's what we like to call "normal" here in the real world: people move, money moves, things like that change all the time. No big deal. :cool:
Chris Hibner
23-07-2015, 14:35
Yes I would. ... the city was beautiful ...
But that's impossible - it's Detroit. Haven't you been following the media :rolleyes:
Just no one drive a non American made car in Detroit and you should be good...
What people don't realize is that Detroit is really the world-wide center of the automotive industry - not just for the American companies. Virtually every major automotive company (OEMs and parts suppliers) have large engineering centers in the area. Within 10 miles of where I'm sitting now are large (~500-1000 engineer) R&D centers for Hyunday/Kia, Toyota, and Nissan. I read an article a few days ago which stated that even though many American companies are outsourcing to low cost countries like India and China, that Indian and Chinese auto companies are now outsourcing to the Detroit area in order to leverage the experience and talent pool. Changan (China) recently opened a tech center about a half mile from my office and Mahindra (India) just announced that they are opening a large R&D center in Troy (northern suburb).
Because of this you see plenty of non-American cars around here. I got my first engineering job at a major tier 1 supplier working on all of the Toyota projects and as a result I drive a Camry. Yeah, you have some union die-hards with the anti-non-American bumper stickers, but they're not going to do anything to anybody.
What most people don't realize is that even though Detroit has the reputation as the blue-collar factory worker town, there are relatively few auto factory jobs around here any more. The vast majority of the automotive work around here is actually white-collar (engineering, science, management, accounting, marketing, etc.) There are literally (figuratively, actually) a bazillion engineering jobs here related to the auto industry, which largely explains why FIRST has been so strong here for so long. That also means that because so many people are employed by foreign companies that there much less attitude about foreign cars.
TheBoulderite
24-07-2015, 08:57
Random question, for all you Canadian/Michigander teams. If a team going to the Detroit event were worried for their safety in the city and didn't want to stay in Detroit, how feasible would it be for them to stay in Windsor instead?
TheBoulderite
24-07-2015, 09:00
Also, since the city is sort of making itself new, it should start calling itself Retroit.
Lil' Lavery
24-07-2015, 10:17
Random question, for all you Canadian/Michigander teams. If a team going to the Detroit event were worried for their safety in the city and didn't want to stay in Detroit, how feasible would it be for them to stay in Windsor instead?
For a team that didn't already have to deal with a border crossing (and all the school policies that are associated with it), I wouldn't want to introduce that hassle if I didn't have to.
Random question, for all you Canadian/Michigander teams. If a team going to the Detroit event were worried for their safety in the city and didn't want to stay in Detroit, how feasible would it be for them to stay in Windsor instead?
15+ years ago this would have been feasible. Nowadays the border crossing is torture. Going to the Canadian side, you will be held up and interrogated to make sure you're not importing student workers. Going to the US side, you will be held up and interrogated to make sure you're not importing student terrorists. Then, if you're unlucky, the crossing may be closed at a moments notice while you're in line. This could range anywhere from 15 minutes up to two hours. On average, you would need to plan for a 1 hour border crossing - each way.
On the plus side, our dollar is pretty strong right now, and buys more in Canada.
Chris Hibner
24-07-2015, 11:03
Random question, for all you Canadian/Michigander teams. If a team going to the Detroit event were worried for their safety in the city and didn't want to stay in Detroit, how feasible would it be for them to stay in Windsor instead?
There are plenty of suburbs within a reasonable driving distance if it makes you feel better. You can try Royal Oak, Troy, St. Clair Shores, or many other in that direction (that direction is a shorter drive to the event than other suburbs).
Came across this article in the Detroit Free Press (http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2015/07/24/teen-blog-detroit/30614671/) during my lunch. It references a blog post by a North Carolina teenager who was in town for the ELCA event and her experiences while in Detroit (compared to what she had expected)...
"...You see, I was expecting a city filled with broken dreams and shattered glass, a city devoid of life and hope. I expected a scene of desolation against the backdrop of a dead city.
But you are not dead. You are so very much alive. You destroyed all of my preconceptions the minute I set foot on your gorgeous riverwalk and was exposed to the cultural diversity and breathtaking views you offered me. I saw the opposite of what I expected..."
15+ years ago this would have been feasible. Nowadays the border crossing is torture. Going to the Canadian side, you will be held up and interrogated to make sure you're not importing student workers. Going to the US side, you will be held up and interrogated to make sure you're not importing student terrorists. Then, if you're unlucky, the crossing may be closed at a moments notice while you're in line. This could range anywhere from 15 minutes up to two hours. On average, you would need to plan for a 1 hour border crossing - each way.
On the plus side, our dollar is pretty strong right now, and buys more in Canada.
We always hear of the border horror stories, but every time I've been across the border we've been waved through. Make sure anyone who isn't an American or Canadian citizen has ESTA, have everyone wear team clothing, and just be quiet and respectful, and you get can a bus of 55 people though in 20 minutes. The biggest issue we've had was when 1114's bus managed to squeeze in front of us and we had to wait for hhem to go first. :rolleyes:
Random question, for all you Canadian/Michigander teams. If a team going to the Detroit event were worried for their safety in the city and didn't want to stay in Detroit, how feasible would it be for them to stay in Windsor instead?
In agreement with the other posters, I would not consider this an option. Traffic is incredibly unpredictable and congested on both sides. You also have to consider getting the entire team the necessary papers/passport/enhanced license to be able to travel to another country. There are plenty of Detroit suburbs to stay in if you are uncomfortable staying in Detroit that are under a 30 minute drive from the city.
HurdFIRST
26-07-2015, 13:02
So what's the death toll?
The number of homicides in 2014 was 333.
Please Adam, think before you speak.
Think about every kid that's in South Eastern Michigan that's so excited to host you and your team in their city, a city they love, and a city they personally identify with on a regional basis.
Think about a city with so much culture it was called the Paris of the Midwest, a city teeming with beautiful architecture, miles of waterfront, one of Michigan's most beloved state parks, and green spaces everywhere.
Think about a city that has been war torn by racial violence, fire, corruption, a city left to rot by the rest of the country with only the occasional ruin porn prober from the New York Times sliding through to see just how dead it really is.
Think about the crime you'd be committing against intelligence if you ignored all of the above and took an entire region, its history, its present, and its future and reduced it down to a singular number.
The 313 is so much more than 333. If you choose to ignore that fact, most Michiganders would agree you're better off attending the Houston event.
The number of homicides in 2014 was 333.
Please Adam, think before you speak.
Think about every kid that's in South Eastern Michigan that's so excited to host you and your team in their city, a city they love, and a city they personally identify with on a regional basis.
Think about a city with so much culture it was called the Paris of the Midwest, a city teeming with beautiful architecture, miles of waterfront, one of Michigan's most beloved state parks, and green spaces everywhere.
Think about a city that has been war torn by racial violence, fire, corruption, a city left to rot by the rest of the country with only the occasional ruin porn prober from the New York Times sliding through to see just how dead it really is.
Think about the crime you'd be committing against intelligence if you ignored all of the above and took an entire region, its history, its present, and its future and reduced it down to a singular number.
The 313 is so much more than 333. If you choose to ignore that fact, most Michiganders would agree you're better off attending the Houston event.
Wow, I'm impressed that you felt so passionately about Adam's joke that you created an account and made your first post to defend Detroit so vehemently. :rolleyes:
PayneTrain
26-07-2015, 18:51
Wow, I'm impressed that you felt so passionately about Adam's joke that you created an account and made your first post to defend Detroit so vehemently. :rolleyes:
The brain cell death toll from this thread is incalculable.
HurdFIRST
26-07-2015, 21:57
Wow, I'm impressed that you felt so passionately about Adam's joke that you created an account and made your first post to defend Detroit so vehemently. :rolleyes:
It's not a joke to the people who live there, the people who can't afford to move to the "nice" and "safe" Detroit neighborhoods, and it's not a joke to the families of the 333 dead bodies. There's 17 FIRST teams in Detroit and every time you make the city your punchline, you make those kids your punchline! Do you think they're stupid? Do you they can't read what you have to say about them and their city?
OOPS! *eye roll emoji* *winky tongue out emoji* Guess I got a little too serious for Chief Delphi's Gracious Professionalism playground! Guess I should stick to announcing and not commenting on perpetuated ignorance! *Cartwheels*
I haven't heard the end of this BS since the Michigan State Championship. I was sick of it then and it's only gotten worse since. Seeing memes on twitter, eavesdropping on conversations at IRI, reading through threads on here that ooze with ignorance. I'm done biting my tongue. Someone's gotta speak up, so why not the man with the microphone?
AdamHeard
26-07-2015, 22:04
It's not a joke to the people who live there, the people who can't afford to move to the "nice" and "safe" Detroit neighborhoods, and it's not a joke to the families of the 333 dead bodies. There's 17 FIRST teams in Detroit and every time you make the city your punchline, you make those kids your punchline! Do you think they're stupid? Do you they can't read what you have to say about them and their city?
OOPS! *eye roll emoji* *winky tongue out emoji* Guess I got a little too serious for Chief Delphi's Gracious Professionalism playground! Guess I should stick to announcing and not commenting on perpetuated ignorance! *Cartwheels*
I haven't heard the end of this BS since the Michigan State Championship. I was sick of it then and it's only gotten worse since. Seeing memes on twitter, eavesdropping on conversations at IRI, reading through threads on here that ooze with ignorance. I'm done biting my tongue. Someone's gotta speak up, so why not the man with the microphone?
I applaud your conviction.
My original post was meant to be mocking the people who were scared of Detroit as a venue for champs. Obviously such things can be unclear in text.
I applaud your conviction.
My original post was meant to be mocking the people who were scared of Detroit as a venue for champs. Obviously such things can be unclear in text.
It was pretty clear.
Since it's evident that people can't have a discussion about the city of Detroit without it devolving into histrionics about homicide victims and ad hominem attacks, I'm closing this thread. Take it to Reddit or another medium where people enjoy shouting at each other in dramatic fashion.
If people want to have a reasonable discussion about the location of the future FRC Championships, start a new thread and keep it civil.
And seriously, please don't try and use faceless murder victims in your arguments. Please.
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