2016 global brainstorm

[EDesbiens]

We would like to try a different way of brainstorming during the 2016 kickoff... Here is a link to a form where you can register to a global brainstorm! Everybody will receive a link before the kickoff granting them access to our giant brainstorm... We think this will help rookie teams to get more ideas and older teams to get out of their usual patterns!

http://goo.gl/forms/zNAeAcKzA6

[g_sawchuk]

Interesting concept. I think that it's important to ensure that this doesn't become a huge trend, or ensure that the amount of collaboration is minimal. One of the best parts at competition is seeing all the unique robots, and I would hate for there to be a single, common bot, that most teams pursue based off of discussion with other teams. This would be better for discussing personal opinions on the game, season outcome predictions, and maybe the average amount of points per match.

[Ginger Power]

This would be better for discussing personal opinions on the game, season outcome predictions, and maybe the average amount of points per match.

Sounds a lot like what we do on CD. It's not going to be a forum where 1114 and 254 post their detailed strategies. I'd be willing to bet a lot of highly competitive teams opt out of this mass strategy session. It does seem like a great idea for raising the floor like Ri3D and Buildblitz have been doing for a number of years. There's going to be design convergence every year regardless of whether or not events like this occur. The smart teams will take what they learn from the forum and decide to compliment what the "average" team is doing or they'll improve upon it. I hope it's a massive success, but if I come up with a game breaking strategy you definitely won't be seeing me put it out there for all to see!

[MikeBrock]

Brainstorming on a large scale right away can be a stupid idea. Work with your team first, don't tunnel vision yourself, then check out Youtube and Chief Delphi for other ideas that have been explored a bit more.

Overall, this is not something I would recommend.

[Knufire]

Brainstorm what? Strategy? Robot functions?

If the first thing you're doing on kickoff is brainstorming what your robot will look like, you're setting yourself up for failure. See the several presentations by Karthik on strategic design.

[EDesbiens]

don't tunnel vision yourself

This won't limit the vision of everybody... The goal here is to help teams get new ideas and point of views about every aspect of the 2016 challenge... Strategy, rules, mechanics, programming ect... It is not meant to be the principal way to gather ideas; it's much more about discussing, discovering and helping other teams...

If you don't want to be part of this, it's fine... But if you want to, it's open to everybody...

[SJaladi]

This won't limit the vision of everybody... The goal here is to help teams get new ideas and point of views about every aspect of the 2016 challenge... Strategy, rules, mechanics, programming ect... It is not meant to be the principal way to gather ideas; it's much more about discussing, discovering and helping other teams...

If you don't want to be part of this, it's fine... But if you want to, it's open to everybody...

As someone else already mentioned this sounds a lot like, if not exactly what this forum is already for. If you think this brainstorm will serve some purpose beyond what already happens following kickoff on this forum can you explain?

[EDesbiens]

As someone else already mentioned this sounds a lot like, if not exactly what this forum is already for. If you think this brainstorm will serve some purpose beyond what already happens following kickoff on this forum can you explain?


It's true that this forum already serves that purpose... But it is also used for other things. I think that having a place where we only talk about the kickoff and where ideas and concepts are sorted (strategy, drivetrain... ect...) would be more effective. It is more focused about creating a large diversity of ideas then debating on what is the best thing to do. This way, everybody can get new ideas and explore them by themselves while forging their own opinion...

[jajabinx124]

It's true that this forum already serves that purpose... But it is also used for other things. I think that having a place where we only talk about the kickoff and where ideas and concepts are sorted (strategy, drivetrain... ect...) would be more effective. It is more focused about creating a large diversity of ideas then debating on what is the best thing to do. This way, everybody can get new ideas and explore them by themselves while forging their own opinion...

You'll find that these "large diveristy of ideas" can be formed from Ri3D teams. Some Ri3D teams also make videos about their game impressions and strategies (snow problem did that last year), but you can always contribute to that by expressing your thoughts about the game through this idea you have.

I like that your enthusiastic to work on this idea, but I don't know how useful this will be considering there will be so much discussion about everything you want this idea to cover. CD members contribute, debate, and talk about the game endlessly after it is released (with all of this, many teams can explore and develop opinions). You'll find that this may be redundant, but if your enthusiastic about doing it, go for it.

Maybe you want to make all these ideas more organized and accessible to the FRC community?

[EDesbiens]

Maybe you want to make all these ideas more organized and accessible to the FRC community?

That's a big part of it... I think that Chief Delphi is a great tool but that it isn't very organised when a lot of people post their thoughts... If we can classify everything grant an easier access to everybody, the flow of information will be way more vivid and diversified in my opinion (by diversified I mean that if we can see what was posted on a subject before posting our idea, we can...).

[Rman1923]

Isn't there a whole section on CD dedicated to Kickoff just to address this? I think it's kinda pointless to start a new system that will take years to gain the popularity CD already has. Instead, you could just share the section on CD through the channels you would've shared this form on.
Also, our team doesn't even do design and mechanical stuff (except for drive train, maybe) until day three or four. We just analyze the rules and the game before we jump into things. Kickoff day is for us to just read rules and maybe start thinking of strategy.

[Taylor]

Holy crap.
Let the guy have his idea.

This is why people are afraid to post things on chiefdelphi anymore. Instead of a conversation regarding cool features of his idea - which hurts NOBODY - it's people telling him his idea is stupid and he is stupid and his cat is ugly, and instead of growing and learning from the experience, he's having to defend his idea to bah-humbuggers.

There is such a thing as constructive criticism. This thread isn't it.



I think it's a fine idea. As Etienne said, it's a way for young, inexperienced, or undermentored teams to share ideas and strategies for the upcoming season. If two robots end up looking similar after this - if they both work, that's great. Better to have some sort of strategic design than another embarrassing BLT (no offense meant to Plowie). If you don't want to use this resource, it's not compulsory.

I'm signing up in your google form and I look forward to the discussions that happen in January. Good luck, and we'll see you at the competition.

Edit: I would sign up, but my computer blocks shortened URLs. Any way you could post the original?

[EDesbiens]

Holy crap.
Let the guy have his idea.

This is why people are afraid to post things on chiefdelphi anymore. Instead of a conversation regarding cool features of his idea - which hurts NOBODY - it's people telling him his idea is stupid and he is stupid and his cat is ugly, and instead of growing and learning from the experience, he's having to defend his idea to bah-humbuggers.

There is such a thing as constructive criticism. This thread isn't it.



I think it's a fine idea. As Etienne said, it's a way for young, inexperienced, or undermentored teams to share ideas and strategies for the upcoming season. If two robots end up looking similar after this - if they both work, that's great. Better to have some sort of strategic design than another embarrassing BLT (no offense meant to Plowie). If you don't want to use this resource, it's not compulsory.

I'm signing up in your google form and I look forward to the discussions that happen in January. Good luck, and we'll see you at the competition.

Edit: I would sign up, but my computer blocks shortened URLs. Any way you could post the original?

Thank you for your support :) Here is the url : https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1lrVVXrO5At4f3mWxThgEj480KNcen6PilLYiy6e5miA/viewform?usp=send_form

[MikeBrock]

Holy crap.
Let the guy have his idea.

it's a way for young, inexperienced, or undermentored teams to share ideas and strategies for the upcoming season.

I'm signing up in your google form and I look forward to the discussions that happen in January. Good luck, and we'll see you at the competition.

Edit: I would sign up, but my computer blocks shortened URLs. Any way you could post the original?

I'm just saying that I doubt any good team will participate in idea generation or discussing strategy outside of CD or Ri3D/Build Blitz, they rarely even post on here actually. This means young teams just share ideas among themselves instead of actually learning anything important.

Taylor, not all constructive criticism is written as fluffy clouds and rainbows. Often times it is best to just tell someone they are pursuing something not worth their effort.

[Taylor]

I'm just saying that I doubt any good team will participate in idea generation or discussing strategy outside of CD or Ri3D/Build Blitz, they rarely even post on here actually. This means young teams just share ideas among themselves instead of actually learning anything important.
Then say that. No need to tell him his idea is stupid.
Taylor, not all constructive criticism is written as fluffy clouds and rainbows. Often times it is best to just tell someone they are pursuing something not worth their effort.
You're absolutely correct. * But I haven't seen much constructive criticism here - just criticism. Remember the person on the other side of the Internet is human too.

(what I typed after the * is an address to the world at large, not specifically Mike.)

[Ginger Power]

I'm just saying that I doubt any good team will participate in idea generation or discussing strategy outside of CD or Ri3D/Build Blitz, they rarely even post on here actually. This means young teams just share ideas among themselves instead of actually learning anything important.

So can only "good" teams have good ideas? It doesn't take a perennial powerhouse to offer up information that some teams could find valuable. This coming from somebody who led an Ri3D team last year and is going to do so again this year. I'm not from a perennial powerhouse, nor do I consider myself to be an "expert" in FRC. However I've talked to a number of people who said our Ri3D robot inspired them. I do think a lot of the discussion this is designed to host is already done on Chief Delphi, but who am I to tell somebody that their idea (which is just trying to better the FRC community) is no good. Instead I'll offer a piece of advice that I think will improve the idea and differentiate it from forums that are already out there: maybe set up a system where people who sign up to do this get randomly placed in a Google hangout sessions with other random people who sign up. Maybe in groups of 5 to 10? This allows for inter-team communication and brainstorming, but isn't just a forum that people post on. It allows face to face communication (computer screen to computer screen... whatever) which other sites don't offer. Just a suggestion, like I said previously, I hope this is a huge success and good luck!

[EDesbiens]

Instead I'll offer a piece of advice that I think will improve the idea and differentiate it from forums that are already out there: maybe set up a system where people who sign up to do this get randomly placed in a Google hangout sessions with other random people who sign up. Maybe in groups of 5 to 10? This allows for inter-team communication and brainstorming, but isn't just a forum that people post on.

That's a nice idea! I'll try to do this :)


I hope this is a huge success and good luck!


Well thank you :)

[asid61]

I'm just saying that I doubt any good team will participate in idea generation or discussing strategy outside of CD or Ri3D/Build Blitz, they rarely even post on here actually. This means young teams just share ideas among themselves instead of actually learning anything important.

Taylor, not all constructive criticism is written as fluffy clouds and rainbows. Often times it is best to just tell someone they are pursuing something not worth their effort.

The "good" teams aren't going to share their strategy anyway, so it's not like the young teams were "learning anything important" regardless of this discussion. What would they learn watching good team release videos, that they wouldn't learn by discussing with other teams also?
Randomized hangouts discussions sounds really cool.

[EDesbiens]

Randomized hangouts discussions sounds really cool.

Would you guys prefer a system of randomized hangouts or a system where you choose a subject (programming, strategy, robot systems (drive trains, claw for example) ) and get in a room of people already talking about that subject?

[EricH]

Would you guys prefer a system of randomized hangouts or a system where you choose a subject (programming, strategy, robot systems (drive trains, claw for example) ) and get in a room of people already talking about that subject?

Depending on how many people you have, and your available programming talent level, you could do both. Pick a subject, land in a random room discussing that subject.



Me personally, I'll probably be chilling with my team and the rulebook, figuring out just what pesky rules I gotta enforce THIS year (and a big thank-you to all the teams who brought correct numbers on the first try this last year!) and reminding the students to read the manual--and then watching CD and issuing the same reminder.

[asid61]

Would you guys prefer a system of randomized hangouts or a system where you choose a subject (programming, strategy, robot systems (drive trains, claw for example) ) and get in a room of people already talking about that subject?

That would get my vote. I don't want to be stuck in a room full of programmers. :P

[jajabinx124]

That would get my vote. I don't want to be stuck in a room full of programmers. :P

*gasp* :ahh:

We aren't that bad ya know.. ;)

[Rman1923]

*gasp* :ahh:

We aren't that bad ya know.. ;)

Sorry bud you're living a dream :p

[EDesbiens]

*gasp* :ahh:

We aren't that bad ya know.. ;)

I agree!

[Ari423]

Sorry bud you're living a dream :p

I'm a programmer myself and even I wouldn't want to be in a room full of programmers. Just thinking about it is scaring me.

[EDesbiens]

I'm a programmer myself and even I wouldn't want to be in a room full of programmers. Just thinking about it is scaring me.

That's true :) I don't know about you but I prefer to be the only programmer on a project... I find it so much more efficient! But I need to get used to working with a team... :(

[jajabinx124]

That's true :) I don't know about you but I prefer to be the only programmer on a project... I find it so much more efficient! But I need to get used to working with a team... :(

Many people prefer working by themselves, but the advantage of working with others and working with rookies is that you will pass your knowledge down to them while working so. This is important especially for seniors in a team to make sure to work with rookies and members who will still be on the team next year in order to pass their experience down to others. Mentors will always be there to help as well, but its important for students to mentor/help/work with other students as well. The students who teach newer members also gain experience, so its a benefit for all. Making sure seniors pass down their info to younger members is also key for team sustainability.

Also, working in a team environment is great experience for the work force. Your going to have to learn to work in a team eventually outside of FRC as well.

[Jon Stratis]

I'm a programmer myself and even I wouldn't want to be in a room full of programmers. Just thinking about it is scaring me.

Man, you won't like the professional world then... A cube farm as far as you can see, filled with nothing but programmers!

All kidding aside, I know plenty of ways something similar to this happens on a small scale after kickoff all the time. To give just one example, there's a group of local area mentors that get together regularly throughout the build season - we talk about our impressions of the game, robot designs, and what we're having trouble with, all so we can mutually support each other and keep all of our teams on a successful path. Mentors from maybe a dozen teams are involved, and not only is it a lot of fun, but you hear about stuff you never would have imagined!

This brings it to a much larger scale, which is great. I would recommend largely separating students from mentors in the discussion, though, maybe with some sort of regular summary available as a go between for the two groups. From my experience, excitable mentors have a tendency to drown out students, and our concerns may be different - while the students want to figure out what to build, mentors are often looking more at how to build different aspects and the problems they'll encounter later on in weeks 4/5. I know I, personally, would rather be involved in discussions with other mentors specifically so I can figure out the landmines awaiting us. My team will come up with the design they see fit, they don't need me involved too much with strategy or overall capability design:)

[EDesbiens]

I would recommend largely separating students from mentors in the discussion, though, maybe with some sort of regular summary available as a go between for the two groups.

I can't figure how to split the two groups without completely isolate them... :ahh: It's a good idea though!

[EDesbiens]

40 teams signed up! That's pretty cool :) Any suggestion on what to use to build the site?