We're looking for a scouting system

[BitTwiddler]

Team 1726 has been using paper scouting forms and sneakernet to compile the scouting data for way too long. Time to automate.

I know this topic has come up before but it would be informative to know what's out there currently. The threads I've read on this topic are nearly a year old.

I envision the scouts using their Android devices (iPhone also would be desirable) to fill in a configurable scouting form then uploading the form data to the server laptop to aggregate the data.

I like the idea that someone proposed to use a QR code to scan the data into the server but bluetooth seems to be the media of choice for most of the apps I've seen discussed here. Either way would probably meet our needs.

What scouting collection and reporting apps are currently available that we can use? Any turnkey applications out there that can be easily configured for use by a team with limited knowledge of the different programming languages?

Your input will be most appreciated.

[MooreteP]

If you are creative with Google Forms, you can aggregate scouting data in interesting ways.

Scouting has always been a slog in the past, especially for the students inputting the data. A true buzzkill.

A well made Survey allows them to enjoy the matches and gather pertinent data.
Therein lies the rub. That is where you need to be creative.

Personally, I could regale you with tales about creating team data sheets with Robot pictures garnered on Thursday, inserted into Word docs and printed out on heavy stock paper on an hp 5220 in the wee hours to be placed in accordion folders to be disseminated and dropped through bleachers and recollected and pizza stained on Friday night only to be recycled after we were picked 18th, etc, blah blah blah.
Then there are the years where teams set up a local network all for naught. Extension cords searching for electrons or running off old Robot batteries through inverters. The list goes on and on, yadda, yadda, yadda.

If you are creative, Google forms allows Real Time updates that the drive team can use before each match. You can create visual outputs that are useful in making a pick list.

Less paper, happier scouts.
Disruptive technology in a good way.

Another Bonus: Scouts can speak specific comments or notes about a teams performance in a match and it will be logged in the survey.

[BitTwiddler]

Hmm, interesting concept. Need to research this further.

[Chris Endres]

Not exactly what you're looking for, but we used this last year, and it was infinitely better than paper and excel scouting.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129763

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136375&highlight=WildRank

[Monochron]

Plan to not have access to internet. Showing up to a competition and realizing the internet isn't available and your scouting system rely's on it. Also probably plan to not have power outlets available in the stands, so some sort of runner system to keep things charged.
There are quite a few white papers around here on successful locally networked systems that you can find.

[Jalerre]

A scouting system that I have looked into but never used is Tableau (http://www.tableau.com/first-robotics). I have heard good things about it. From what I seen, its very powerful and customizable.

[Danimal!]

One of our students developed a phone-based Dozer scouting app that we used at the Orlando Regional as well as World Championships. It gave us a lot of valuable information and helped us to make some great picks. We were the 8th seated alliance in the Newton division, but because of the picks we made, we ended up placing 5th, just missing the semi-finals. Here's the link to the site as well as the repository.

https://riptiderobotics.com:3000/#/

[BitTwiddler]

Thanks to everyone who has provided input. It's good stuff. Please keep 'em coming. I promise to look them over. I am reading some of your white papers too.

I think I'm going to have to present some of your scouting solutions to the team leadership to see what they like best for this year.

[chandrew]

Scouting wise we have used Google Forms/paper copies of our forms over the past couple of years, however there have been a lot of issues with availability of WIFI to submit the forms. Beyond that though, analysis for scouting is what we encountered the most issues finding something to do. Last year we build spreadsheets as described in http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136944 however those spreadsheets are a not exactly easy or fun to build.
The one thing I would keep in mind is that any scouting app you pick has to be something that connects to the goals of your team. That's why our team has chosen to use either google forms or printed versions of the google forms that allow for easy data entry is that scouting usually needs to be specific to what your team goals are and what your robot is built to do depending on the game.

[BitTwiddler]

The one thing I would keep in mind is that any scouting app you pick has to be something that connects to the goals of your team. That's why our team has chosen to use either google forms or printed versions of the google forms that allow for easy data entry is that scouting usually needs to be specific to what your team goals are and what your robot is built to do depending on the game.
I'm beginning to see that now. Different teams look at different things in accordance with their team selection philosophy. Some look at scoring effectiveness and others look at more qualitative attributes to find the best match for their alliances. Team 1678 has a nice set of slides that discusses this important topic.
It's been quite an education so far.

[trumpthero786]

Here is what my team, Storm 2729 uses, as explained by our Lead Mentor! I hope this helps! It works really well for us and is very organized. It does require Android devices, which might be a turn off. But good luck on your scouting ventures!

Up until last year, our team had completed all of our scouting on paper which as you know has its pros and cons. We wanted to develop a scouting app that would simple data acquisition and migration without the need to use networks, bluetooth, and pen drives. Brainstorming happened and we think we've made a simple, user friendly application for all your scouting needs using QR code data transfer! The app works without internet connection, USB drives, and bluetooth - all you need is an Android device with a camera.

This year’s apps (yes there’s two) allows you to save and analyze vital information about other teams such as points scored, tote stacks, container stacks, and noodles. Equipped with a lightning fast QR code scanner and a QR analyzer, this app will simplify scouting.

Here’s how the two app process works:

The User App generates a QR code which contains match data about other teams
The Master App scans the QR code
The Master App sorts teams based on points, coopertitions, tote levels, and all other fields
The analyzed information from the QR code is converted into a CSV file
The CSV file can be opened in the app itself or in another spreadsheet application, such as Microsoft Excel


http://i1.wp.com/stormroboticsnj.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/qr.png
http://i2.wp.com/stormroboticsnj.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Capture.png
http://i0.wp.com/stormroboticsnj.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/main.png

You can access it and check more screen shots out on our website (http://stormroboticsnj.org/resources/scouting/)and on the Google Play Store in the next few days. We’ll post a reply when it’s available.

There’s a lot of great scouting apps out there and we hope you’ll give it a try. Feel free to reply to this thread with questions, comments, and thoughts. Our students and team can’t wait to hear your feedback and hope that you enjoy their work!


Enjoy!

[BitTwiddler]

Here is what my team, Storm 2729 uses, as explained by our Lead Mentor! I hope this helps! It works really well for us and is very organized. It does require Android devices, which might be a turn off. But good luck on your scouting ventures!

Very cool! It actually meets our main requirements and seems simple to use.
I notice that the scouting data points are hard-coded into the user app. Am I correct in thinking that your programmers will configure it for the 2016 game shortly after kick-off? Is the source code open or closed?
What data analysis tool(s) do you guys use for your team pick lists?
The use of QR codes for data transfer is brilliant:cool: . No pesky cables to trip over, no on again/off again Bluetooth reliability issues. Just need to ensure that the devices are kept charged up for use.
Any plans for importing match schedules into the user app prior to the qualification matches in order to help the scouts select the teams to watch?

[Citrus Dad]

I'm beginning to see that now. Different teams look at different things in accordance with their team selection philosophy. Some look at scoring effectiveness and others look at more qualitative attributes to find the best match for their alliances. Team 1678 has a nice set of slides that discusses this important topic.
It's been quite an education so far.

Thanks for the compliment. If you can't find a link to our slides from last year, message me and I'll send them. I'll also get our website team to post links to the slides on our website www.citruscircuits.org (as well as for other workshops). We also hope to post the videos (finally), which includes a portion on the most important step in your draft process--having a heated argument between two members of the strategy team! :D

We will be giving an updated session on this plus strategy at our Capital City Classic workshops Oct 23-25 during breaks and after competition. (We may have a webcast set up as well.) For teams in Northern California, even if you're not competing, we urge you to come (plus we'll have a couple of food trucks.)

Note that we also have several whitepapers up on our tablet-based scouting system on Chief Delphi. We strongly believe that a team should build the scouting system because it's a great programming opportunity and not too overwhelming. It's a good place to use your extra programmers and recruit students who are already programming Android and iOS.

[Citrus Dad]

Plan to not have access to internet. Showing up to a competition and realizing the internet isn't available and your scouting system rely's on it. Also probably plan to not have power outlets available in the stands, so some sort of runner system to keep things charged.
There are quite a few white papers around here on successful locally networked systems that you can find.

We've been able to use Bluetooth and a couple of cell phone connections (for reliablity.)

[Kevin Leonard]

Personally I think too many teams over-reach on scouting and expect that a slightly more efficient method of scouting might provide exponentially increased returns, when in reality any well-run scouting system that gets you accurate, useful data is perfect in my book.

I know that a number of incredible teams use well-run, efficient electronic scouting systems. 1678 comes to mind as the best, but a bunch of these systems are very, very good.

However a well-run paper and excel scouting system gets the job done nearly as well, and is harder to mess up (in my opinion).

I would encourage most teams looking to advance their scouting potential first to look at a) the data you're collecting, and b) how you're aggregating it

Are you collecting useful data? Is the data you're collecting accurate?
Useful data is generally quantitative. # of goals scored, # of goals missed, etc.
Non-useful data is often qualitative. How well do they shoot? How good are they at defense? Some of this data can be obtained other ways- by smart people who have watched a lot of matches who are knowledgeable, or by working closely with their drive team during matches, but match scouting sheets don't need these metrics.

How are you aggregating the data? Can you use the data you've collected to produce picklists or to produce match strategy? Excel can be a really useful tool for this, but so can some sort of paper-and-pen system if someone wants to put in a lot of time making the data more accessible.

Once you've optimized those two factors (what you're collecting and how you use it), then you can move on to how efficiently and easily you're collecting data.

Getting a high tech scouting system, but collecting poor data or being unable to use the data is like having the best shooter in the world, but no ability to acquire game pieces consistently. It doesn't matter if your accuracy is 100% if you're never able to shoot.

EDIT: To actually answer your question instead of ranting about scouting, Team 180's Poor Man's Scouting System is absolutely phenomenal.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/3098

[BitTwiddler]

Thanks for the compliment. If you can't find a link to our slides from last year, message me and I'll send them. I'll also get our website team to post links to the slides on our website www.citruscircuits.org (as well as for other workshops).

Here's the link to the 1678 slides "Moneybots"
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/3153

[trumpthero786]

Very cool! It actually meets our main requirements and seems simple to use.
I notice that the scouting data points are hard-coded into the user app. Am I correct in thinking that your programmers will configure it for the 2016 game shortly after kick-off? Is the source code open or closed?
What data analysis tool(s) do you guys use for your team pick lists?
The use of QR codes for data transfer is brilliant:cool: . No pesky cables to trip over, no on again/off again Bluetooth reliability issues. Just need to ensure that the devices are kept charged up for use.
Any plans for importing match schedules into the user app prior to the qualification matches in order to help the scouts select the teams to watch?

I do believe that we have the intentions of configuring it to the 2016 game as soon after kick off as we can. Unfortunately the code for the app is not open YET. I'm not sure why, as we release all of our robot code. I can check on that with the programming team once we start meeting up again. As far as data analysis, it's not very complicated. It would be just like if you had all the data on paper, but instead it's nice and neat, organized and available. I'm not on the scouting team so I'm no expert in what they do. However I know that the hassle of tons of papers has been relieved from our team, and has simplified the picking of teams that we would want to work with us.

Your final question is very intriguing. It is a great idea that I can pass on to those in charge of the app and scouting in general. I can see them working that in using TBA's open source. We will definitely consider it.

If you PM or (even better) send an email to our Lead Mentor, I'm sure that he can find a way to get you guys the source code for the app. This is his profile page. There is a link for sending him an email. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/member.php?u=14138)

I hope this helped! I can gladly answer other questions if you have any!

[Citrus Dad]

One consideration that we discovered after implementing our tablet system: being able to push summarized data to smart phones helped our drive team in planning for match strategies. Keeping your data only for the draft and not having an effective way to get data to your drive team quickly are mistakes to avoid.

[Monochron]

We've been able to use Bluetooth and a couple of cell phone connections (for reliablity.)

Yeah, Bluetooth is a great alternative. Just make sure you have enough Bluetooth devices on hand.

[Billfred]

4901 hasn't used any devices for scouting (yet...), but one thing I can recommend personally: Anker battery packs (http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=anker+battery) to keep them topped up. I bought an Astro E4 (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BQ5KHJW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) before my trip to IRI this year, and made it from arrival Friday to on the train home Sunday morning without having to plug it into a wall--and my iPhone was never in danger of going dead despite using it a lot for work and despite the notoriously bad reception in Lawrence North that makes the phone use more juice to connect. They have also nailed down talking to the phone for the fastest charge it will take, which lets you top up quickly. I paid $30 for mine, but obviously a team wanting to charge a fleet of them might go for something bigger still. (The new PowerCore 20100 (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00X5RV14Y/ref=s9_hps_bw_g107_i2) trumps my 13000 mAh for 20000 for $10 more, for example, or the three-port Astro E7 (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M3073L4/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&m=A294P4X9EWVXLJ&tag=ianker-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399373&creativeASIN=B00M3073L4) has 26800 for $70.)

I'm also a fan of their PowerPort (http://www.ianker.com/Wall-Chargers/category-c78-s1) line if you have access to wall power or wanted to charge everything up overnight in the pits or hotel. They've got four-, five-, six-, and ten-port versions that should give everyone the juice they require.

I'm nothing but a very satisfied customer--their stuff is well-built and a great bang for the buck. :)

[ShotgunNinja]

A scouting system that I have looked into but never used is Tableau (http://www.tableau.com/first-robotics). I have heard good things about it. From what I seen, its very powerful and customizable.

That looks amazing! Why didn't we have this when I was in FIRST?

[BitTwiddler]

That looks amazing! Why didn't we have this when I was in FIRST?

Tableau is indeed an awesome data visualiztion tool to slice and dice the data in myriad ways to extract inferences from but it is not a scouting system per se. Not sure it's worth the learning curve associated with it. I think we'll want to keep it simple and focus on the important data to collect.

Mark Twain is often quoted as saying, "Data is like garbage, You'd better know what you are going to do with it before you collect it.". Now Mr. Twain may have never really said it but it's a good quote.

I'm still looking but I'm really impressed with what I'm seeing from some of you. You all have some truly awesome programmers on your teams.

[fovea1959]

Our students took Wildstang's Wildrank from 2014 and reworked it for the 2015 game. No dependency on internet (data gets around on a USB drive plugged into tablets). Need to streamline that, and figure out how to get the stuff to the drive coach easily.

Wildstangs did a good job of separating the data plumbing from the data items, changing it to record different metrics was pretty straightforward, I hear.

[logank013]

Tableau is indeed an awesome data visualiztion tool to slice and dice the data in myriad ways to extract inferences from but it is not a scouting system per se. Not sure it's worth the learning curve associated with it. I think we'll want to keep it simple and focus on the important data to collect.

Mark Twain is often quoted as saying, "Data is like garbage, You'd better know what you are going to do with it before you collect it.". Now Mr. Twain may have never really said it but it's a good quote.

I'm still looking but I'm really impressed with what I'm seeing from some of you. You all have some truly awesome programmers on your teams.

My team is in the same situation. I have heard all about tableau but I'm not really sure what it's capable of. Is it just graphs or is it more? I can do many types of graphs in excel and sheets so I was just curious. Thanks

[solopilot]

Tableau is powerful, but you still need a system to gather and organize data. Try looking at http://gms.pejaver.com/UserGuide-Team.htm. It will soon get updated to use the 'new' v2 FRC API.

[jkoritzinsky]

I just wanted to chime in. I'm working on a modular scouting system for this season (and future seasons). I'll be a mobile app (for iOS, Android, and Windows Phone) combined with a desktop program (Windows only for now) that allows integration with either Excel or Tableau. I'm about 2/3 of the way done, and it'll be done by kickoff for sure. Each team will be able to define what data they want to collect for each season (or competition if they change what they want).

[Doug Frisk]

I just wanted to chime in. I'm working on a modular scouting system for this season (and future seasons). I'll be a mobile app (for iOS, Android, and Windows Phone) combined with a desktop program (Windows only for now) that allows integration with either Excel or Tableau. I'm about 2/3 of the way done, and it'll be done by kickoff for sure. Each team will be able to define what data they want to collect for each season (or competition if they change what they want).

Ohh, we should talk.

[BitTwiddler]

I just wanted to chime in. I'm working on a modular scouting system for this season (and future seasons). I'll be a mobile app (for iOS, Android, and Windows Phone) combined with a desktop program (Windows only for now) that allows integration with either Excel or Tableau. I'm about 2/3 of the way done, and it'll be done by kickoff for sure. Each team will be able to define what data they want to collect for each season (or competition if they change what they want).

I'm interested. Please keep us up to date on your progress.

[jkoritzinsky]

Will do.

[teku14]

Will do.

That seems really cool. I'd be interested in this kind of a system when you're done with it. Can you PM me with some details as to like a general over view of how it works?

[sciencenuetzel]

That seems really cool. I'd be interested in this kind of a system when you're done with it. Can you PM me with some details as to like a general over view of how it works?

The same here please...

[adammiller3122]

I just wanted to chime in. I'm working on a modular scouting system for this season (and future seasons). I'll be a mobile app (for iOS, Android, and Windows Phone) combined with a desktop program (Windows only for now) that allows integration with either Excel or Tableau. I'm about 2/3 of the way done, and it'll be done by kickoff for sure. Each team will be able to define what data they want to collect for each season (or competition if they change what they want).

That sounds amazing! I would be willing to test if you need any help with that.

[jkoritzinsky]

That seems really cool. I'd be interested in this kind of a system when you're done with it. Can you PM me with some details as to like a general over view of how it works?

I'll do a post in this forum (or maybe on my website and I'll link to that if I ever get back to finishing my website) about the design and overview once I get a few more pieces fully coded. Just want to test a few more things out.

[jkoritzinsky]

Hey guys! I just posted a write-up about my app (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1509217#post1509217)over in the Scouting forum. Let me know what you think and what questions you have!