View Full Version : pic: 2015/2016 Robot Radio Comparison
Mark McLeod
12-10-2015, 16:49
[cdm-description=photo]42370[/cdm-description]
yarden.saa
12-10-2015, 16:50
Robots real estate problems solved!
Thad House
12-10-2015, 16:55
Where's the banana for scale?
In all seriousness, the smaller size is going to be much nicer. Only 2 ports is going to be trouble, but its easier to hide a switch in the robot, and put this radio further up and in a more open spot.
jajabinx124
12-10-2015, 17:07
Where's the banana for scale?
In all seriousness, the smaller size is going to be much nicer. Only 2 ports is going to be trouble, but its easier to hide a switch in the robot, and put this radio further up and in a more open spot.
It was actually a pear for scale in the blog post.
I agree, the smaller size is going to be nicer.
Doug Frisk
12-10-2015, 17:33
Where's the banana for scale?
In all seriousness, the smaller size is going to be much nicer. Only 2 ports is going to be trouble, but its easier to hide a switch in the robot, and put this radio further up and in a more open spot.
The part I like is that it will be harder to mount it so you can't see the status lights. Ohh, and PoE, the possibility that power can come up the Ethernet cable which locks into place should reduce the number of dead radios on field.
Any photos of the back? what does the wall mount hardware look like?
Thad House
12-10-2015, 17:38
The issue with the POE is that it requires between 18-24 volts. Now FIRST could easily reuse the circuit from the 2009-2014 PDP to get 24 volts, but currently there is no easy way for teams to individually do it, and I suspect that FIRST will not allow it unless it requires all teams to do it. However I would love to have POE. 1 less cable to run around the robot would totally be worth it.
mastachyra
12-10-2015, 17:50
Does it happen to be water proof? :D
Mark McLeod
12-10-2015, 18:33
Here is the back:
http://team358.org/history/2016/photos/betatesting/2016Radio-back_med.jpg (http://team358.org/history/2016/photos/betatesting/2016Radio-back.jpg)
And the waterspoofing, I mean waterproofing:
http://team358.org/history/2016/photos/betatesting/2016Radio-Waterproof_med.jpg (http://team358.org/history/2016/photos/betatesting/2016Radio-Waterproof.jpg)
Are those odd slots in the back for mounting? That would be really handy.
Doug Frisk
12-10-2015, 18:43
Are those odd slots in the back for mounting? That would be really handy.
The normal usage for that AP is to mount it on walls in a hotel. I expect to see someone post a render of a 3D printable mount before I finish typing this. :)
Doug Frisk
12-10-2015, 18:49
The issue with the POE is that it requires between 18-24 volts. Now FIRST could easily reuse the circuit from the 2009-2014 PDP to get 24 volts, but currently there is no easy way for teams to individually do it, and I suspect that FIRST will not allow it unless it requires all teams to do it. However I would love to have POE. 1 less cable to run around the robot would totally be worth it.
12 - 24 volts based on the sticker on the back of the radio. I expect the 18 - 24 quote is to make sure it functions when the radio is at the end of a 100 meter run.
Al Skierkiewicz
13-10-2015, 07:39
The antennas in this radio are on each side that doesn't have connectors. As always, mounting high in the robot away from noise sources and keeping the sides away from metal is the recommended practice.
I've used these Adafruit power injector adaptors (https://www.adafruit.com/products/435) in the past. It would give you the one cable run ability at the risk of some extra connections.
The connections use the snap on the ethernet cable to hold them in place, I've not had problems with them coming apart in daily use.
I'm not sure if they would run into a power rule problem, maybe Al can give some guidance.
orangemoore
13-10-2015, 10:30
I've used these Adafruit power injector adaptors (https://www.adafruit.com/products/435) in the past. It would give you the one cable run ability at the risk of some extra connections.
The connections use the snap on the ethernet cable to hold them in place, I've not had problems with them coming apart in daily use.
I'm not sure if they would run into a power rule problem, maybe Al can give some guidance.
R32 is what will prevent you from doing this. It says you must power the radio from the VRM.
R32 is what will prevent you from doing this. It says you must power the radio from the VRM.
Help me out some. The VRM supplies the voltage, you would still use it to feed into Adafruit power injector (https://www.adafruit.com/products/435) and then the ethernet cable and then to the radio.
How does Rule R32 come into play?
nuclearnerd
13-10-2015, 10:57
R32 is what will prevent you from doing this. It says you must power the radio from the VRM.
Why would that rule prevent the use of POE injectors? You could easily power the injector from the VRM.
The rule that I see being a problem is R38. It says that regulated circuits < 5A should be wired with 22AWG wire. You can find 22 gauge ethernet cable, but it's not very common.
AlexanderTheOK
13-10-2015, 11:27
Sorry to crash the party, but does anyone have a link to an ethernet switch that is actually reasonably smaller than the original D-Link? Not much of a... net gain (badum tish) in real estate if the new system takes up... you know... MORE space.
Different radio. POE wasn't an option on the DLINK. If they decide to allow POE as an option, they will change the rule. Since the radio has been problematic in the past, I expect they will only allow options that have been thoroughly tested.
Alan Anderson
13-10-2015, 11:34
R32 is what will prevent you from doing this. It says you must power the radio from the VRM.
R32 would have prevented using a POE injector to power the radio from something other than the VRM, but that was last year's rules, and last year's radio didn't support POE anyway.
I am confident that the 2016 robot rules will address Power Over Ethernet one way or the other, either to make it explicitly legal or to restrict it.
Alan Anderson
13-10-2015, 11:52
Sorry to crash the party, but does anyone have a link to an ethernet switch that is actually reasonably smaller than the original D-Link? Not much of a... net gain (badum tish) in real estate if the new system takes up... you know... MORE space.
A typical 5-port switch is slightly smaller than the D-Link wireless router. It takes a little less space on the robot where the D-Link would have been. The new OM5P-AN is thus an extra component, but it can be placed for good radio reception rather than for network wiring convenience if you're using a separate switch.
This assumes that the 2016 rules permit a network switch between the radio and the roboRIO. I can imagine being required to have them connected directly with no intervening devices.
billbo911
13-10-2015, 12:26
Here is another POE injector (http://www.amazon.com/iCreatin-ethernet-injector-Adapter-plastic/dp/B00SU9DNDY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1444753474&sr=8-3&keywords=4+port+poe). It is small, but not a switch, so you gain very little. It is just an easy way to get power into the Ethernet.
Joe Ross
13-10-2015, 12:40
This assumes that the 2016 rules permit a network switch between the radio and the roboRIO. I can imagine being required to have them connected directly with no intervening devices.
Why would this be an issue? Plug both the roboRIO and the switch directly into the radio.
Thad House
13-10-2015, 12:46
Why would this be an issue? Plug both the roboRIO and the switch directly into the radio.
It would save a wire if the roboRIO could go through the switch. Then you would only have to run 1 ethernet cable to the new radio, instead of 1 to the switch, and 1 to the roboRIO.
RyanShoff
13-10-2015, 13:10
Here are the POE injectors sold by the company that makes these AP:
http://www.open-mesh.com/products/power-and-poe/poe-injector-for-om.html
marshall
13-10-2015, 13:12
Sorry to crash the party, but does anyone have a link to an ethernet switch that is actually reasonably smaller than the original D-Link? Not much of a... net gain (badum tish) in real estate if the new system takes up... you know... MORE space.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002HH0W5W
It also runs on 5v.
A typical 5-port switch is slightly smaller than the D-Link wireless router. It takes a little less space on the robot where the D-Link would have been. The new OM5P-AN is thus an extra component, but it can be placed for good radio reception rather than for network wiring convenience if you're using a separate switch.
This assumes that the 2016 rules permit a network switch between the radio and the roboRIO. I can imagine being required to have them connected directly with no intervening devices.
Selfishly I am hoping that there "is" a rule requiring plugging the roboRIO into the radio directly, on a designated port (near power, away from power). As an FTAA, I want to be able to say, "Your ethernet cable is not plugged in," and be able to point it out to the team member. Having to search for an unknown device to figure that out makes more difficult when trying to keep to the match schedule. This year I had to say that to teams more than prior years which I think probably had to do with no defense and less secure radios.
Roboshant
13-10-2015, 22:30
Is it waterproof?
Briansmithtown
14-10-2015, 20:21
Did it come with a Pear?
Richard.Varone
14-10-2015, 23:33
Sorry to crash the party, but does anyone have a link to an ethernet switch that is actually reasonably smaller than the original D-Link? Not much of a... net gain (badum tish) in real estate if the new system takes up... you know... MORE space.
My company and I are currently in the process of designing and prototyping such a switch. The goal is to have something with the smallest possible footprint/weight as possible, have 2-4 ports, and possibly also be a POE injector. As it progresses I'll post updates on here, although it won't be move to production until the rules are released and certain requirements/restrictions are laid out.
... I'll post updates on here, although it won't be move to production until the rules are released and certain requirements/restrictions are laid out.
You realize rules will not be posted until kickoff? A direct conversation with First might be in order.
Why not buy a decent 5 port switch for $20 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=464652&is=REG&m=Y&Q=&A=details) and call it a day? It's in a metal box, has lights, is well built inside (I've used these before) and has a very small footprint.
Mark McLeod
15-10-2015, 07:40
Why not buy a decent 5 port switch for $20 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=464652&is=REG&m=Y&Q=&A=details) and call it a day? It's in a metal box, has lights, is well built inside (I've used these before) and has a very small footprint.
That one weighs a half pound (I have one), so a lighter one would be desirable.
It also requires 7.5v, so some extra power work would be required to integrate it onto a robot.
I have one also I looked at the wall wart power unit and mine says 5 volts on it.
Sorry about the weight, I like them because they are really built well. I had forgotten that teams struggle with weight limits.
Mark McLeod
15-10-2015, 08:52
The one you linked is a 7.5v model, so teams just need to be careful of that when spec'ing one out.
marshall
15-10-2015, 09:21
The one you linked is a 7.5v model, so teams just need to be careful of that when spec'ing one out.
This is 5v:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002HH0W5W
And it doesn't weigh much.
techhelpbb
11-01-2016, 15:02
In the game manual for 2016 Stronghold the use of Open Mesh OM5P-AN is required. However they continue to mention using the extra ports like the switch in the old D-Link DAP1522/DAP825 provided after that.
Does anyone know if adding an Ethernet switch to the robot is legal in 2016?
I am picking on this topic because it went directly into adding a switch into the robot at the end of 2015 before Kickoff.
marshall
11-01-2016, 15:12
In the game manual for 2016 Stronghold the use of Open Mesh OM5P-AN is required. However they continue to mention using the extra ports like the switch in the old D-Link DAP1522/DAP825 provided after that.
Does anyone know if adding an Ethernet switch to the robot is legal in 2016?
I am picking on this topic because it went directly into adding a switch into the robot at the end of 2015 before Kickoff.
Yes.
Ethernet-connected COTS devices or CUSTOM CIRCUITS may connect to any remaining Ethernet port on the Wireless Bridge but must not transmit or receive UDP packets using ports 1100-1200 with the exception of ports 1130 and 1140.
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