Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!

[Hallry]

http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2016/frc-2016-hero2.jpg

Teaser Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVLdJdoKK2E

Website Link: http://www.usfirst.org/node/4174

[yaxis]

Any?

[lark95]

Looks very interesting. Capture the flag??????

[TheThings]

Capture the flag

[asid61]

Given that Frank mentioned something about the KOP chassis having basic functionality this year in the blog, I'm guessing something to do with offense/ defense like 2006, only with more obstacles.
Battlebots or capture the flag could be it too.

EDIT: From a team mate: "that font used for stronghold is the lord of the rings movie title font"

[Munchskull]

Capture the flag confirmed! Or king of the hill.

[Bmarshall645]

If it really is capture the flag related it is going to be an interesting game this year.

[EricH]

What do you do with strongholds? Attack them and knock them down. Or defend them and repair them.

In what is one of the shortest turnarounds for a gamepiece in recent memory, totes will be stacked near the driver's station (or above--hence the helmets). Your objective is to knock down your opponent's tower of totes (unless the alliance station wall falls down first) while protecting and building your own. Tallest stack wins.


Edit: Also, it looks like Dozer took a year off to get upgraded. This should be interesting. I REALLY want to see what Disney Imagineering can do with that little guy...

[dmorewood]

FRC Battlebots confirmed

[Electronica1]

FRC Battlebots confirmed

So... remake of 2014 with looser rules then :P

[Darkseer54]

What is on the blueprint that they have?

I feel like that blueprint may have a big hint hidden in it. Or its just a blueprint with strange drawings...

[axiomofdarkness]

What do you do with strongholds? Attack them and knock them down. Or defend them and repair them.

In what is one of the shortest turnarounds for a gamepiece in recent memory, totes will be stacked near the driver's station (or above--hence the helmets). Your objective is to knock down your opponent's tower of totes (unless the alliance station wall falls down first) while protecting and building your own. Tallest stack wins.

It's very unlikely that FIRST will reuse game pieces from last year, especially in a very similar way. It puts rookie and newer teams at a huge disadvantage against teams who already have excellent stacking mechanisms from last year.

[Sami07]

Capture the flag?

[audietron]

If you notice at the end of the end of the video they show the castle for a long time. This castle does NOT have a flag on the flag pole. They show the flag on the castle earlier and there is a flag on the robot when they are working on the robot.
So theory is you have to raise the flag up on the opposite side of the field while the other team does the same.

[BenGuy]

Capture the flag or king of the mountain or something like that. It could be a team based - defeat the challenge as fast as you can.

[Darkseer54]

What do you do with strongholds? Attack them and knock them down. Or defend them and repair them.

In what is one of the shortest turnarounds for a gamepiece in recent memory, totes will be stacked near the driver's station (or above--hence the helmets). Your objective is to knock down your opponent's tower of totes (unless the alliance station wall falls down first) while protecting and building your own. Tallest stack wins.


So we're playing 2003 again? :P

[EricH]

It's very unlikely that FIRST will reuse game pieces from last year, especially in a very similar way. It puts rookie and newer teams at a huge disadvantage against teams who already have excellent stacking mechanisms from last year.

You haven't seen Stack Attack, have you. On the contrary, I predict that the teams with stacking mechanisms will suddenly be at a HUGE DISadvantage, primarily because stacks are so much easier (and more fun!) to knock down.

And I'm willing to bet that a number of stackers become useless when the exact gamepiece changes...

[BenGuy]

Capture the flag or king of the mountain or something like that. It could be a team based game too - defeat the challenge as fast as you can.

[Ludicium]

Castle => Moat => Water Game Confirmed...

[zachrobo1]

Looks like FIRST changed their logo to fit the theme.. interesting.

[Justin Montois]

Red, Blue, Yellow, and Green tents in the intro.

[Caio]

Spitballing some ideas:
6 kids, 6 teams?
"Face the challenge ahead together", all kids dressed the same.
Flag is prominent part of video

Maybe it'll be the first year where instead of Teams vs Team, we have Team vs Field.

[fnsnet]

I'm excited! I'm looking forward to reading your theories!

[Sperkowsky]

I want it to be CTF but I feel like it is too obvious. If Im going to think a little more out of the box im going to say its a game about throwing small projectiles like cannonballs into other teams castles.

[Katie_UPS]

be the first year where instead of Teams vs Team, we have Team vs Field.

Wouldn't be the first year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabolical_Dynamics)

[Gaff_Tape]

The video reminds me of those advertisements for various medieval-themed free-to-play games.

[HedgeHogGal99]

My first thought after seeing the teaser was "Are our robots going to be jousting each other??"

[Darkseer54]

Maybe it'll be the first year where instead of Teams vs Team, we have Team vs Field.

If it was Team Vs. Field would there be bumpers? I wouldn't think so, but maybe house robots?

[Caio]

Wouldn't be the first year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Opertition_FIRST)

My FIRST history seems to have failed me.

[Lil' Lavery]

Wouldn't be the first year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Opertition_FIRST)

Wrong game
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabolical_Dynamics

[Sami07]

The blueprints could be the field design.

[sdangelo]

Looks like FIRST changed their logo to fit the theme.. interesting.

Wow, that's weird. They didn't just change their font, which would make sense because FIRST's usual font is a little too stiff to fit in with rest of the game logo; but they also tilted the red triangle, and moved the blue square forwards. Usually its left corner is behind the red triangle's right corner.
Why would they do that? I don't think it makes a difference to the design of the game logo. I'm not saying it's a game hint--I really don't think it is--I just think that's totally weird. Unless they're going to change the official logo to that soon and just haven't gotten around to it yet

[Briansmithtown]

:O FTA's Vs. Teams...

[Poseidon5817]

I zoomed in on the blueprints and it is definiely symmetrical, with two towers in the middle and a shoe-looking thing on either side. Here is the link (http://imgur.com/yaddYRq)

[fnsnet]

Blueprints from the Teaser:
https://imgur.com/shetTkI

[Darkseer54]

Apparently the blueprint shows the field... or what appears to be the field.

http://imgur.com/shetTkI

[stoutman777]

My guess would be some sort of tower defense game possibly?

[Briansmithtown]

I zoomed in on the blueprints and it is definiely symmetrical, with two towers in the middle and a shoe-looking thing on either side. Here is the link (http://imgur.com/yaddYRq)

It looks more like an elevation then towers... so possible two hills?

[Sean Hackett]

The blueprints shown in the video remain virtually the same when inverted.

http://put.nu/files/nuJbU3B.png

http://put.nu/files/FKvqU5p.png

[M3rcuriel]

I zoomed in on the blueprints and it is definiely symmetrical, with two towers in the middle and a shoe-looking thing on either side. Here is the link (http://imgur.com/yaddYRq)

I think that the shoe-looking thingy is a rope contraption -- it just seems to coil like a rope. Definitely seeing the towers though.

[itsjustjon]

Apparently the blueprint shows the field... or what appears to be the field.

http://imgur.com/shetTkI

Both sides are racing to put up their flags in the middle of the field at their own respective towers.

And possibly race to take down the other team's flag?

[yarden.saa]

3 Months to play https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stronghold_(2001_video_game)

[Briansmithtown]

So.. fire game?

[Hgree56]

Just a thought: The video said "Face this task together" and showed a second "team" or "Alliance." Does this mean return of an end game like in 2012 where alliances have to tag-team to do it?

[Cam_Team 2619]

I imagine that the tower that was shown with the golden rod on the top will be an endgame of sorts - teams have to try and climb to the top to get the rod; whoever summits the tower first gets lots of points.

[Jacob Bendicksen]

Raising flags with robots manipulating rope could get interesting...

[Caleb Sykes]

The blueprints shown in the video remain virtually the same when inverted.

http://put.nu/files/nuJbU3B.png

http://put.nu/files/FKvqU5p.png

The double lines on the bottom-right and top-left might indicate where driver stations will be. Putting the driver stations like this would allow for a longer, but potentially narrower, playing space for the robots.

[Jacob Bendicksen]

The double lines on the bottom-right and top-left might indicate where driver stations will be. Putting the driver stations like this would allow for a longer, but potentially narrower, playing space for the robots.

Anyone know if the current fields could be re-assembled like this?

[z_beeblebrox]

Blueprint, transformed to remove most of the perspective effects:
https://i.imgur.com/3LIUiYb.jpg

[Poseidon5817]

At the heels of the shoes there are what look like stick figures. Is that where the human players will be?

[Caleb Sykes]

Anyone else see the "bp" on the blueprints?

Could "bp" stand for blueprint? This is getting really meta really fast.

[Darkseer54]

Maybe those aren't a b and p, but robots with jousting poles facing away from each other?

[pluto7443]

Maybe those aren't a b and p, but robots with jousting poles facing away from each other?

That sounds expensive. Fun though. And appropriate considering my team's name. :P

[audietron]

Anyone else see the "bp" on the blueprints?

Could "bp" stand for blueprint? This is getting really meta really fast.

Gas Station game Confirmed!?!?

[Abby341]

I'm really hoping this season's game incorporates game play outside the field. Disney is all about an interactive experience so maybe there will be greater opportunity for involvement off the field that could affect ranking.
FIRST is always about supporting other teams and reaching out to one another to create a better community. The "Build your champion. Rally your kingdom." tag line steps beyond the usual red alliance vs. blue alliance camaraderie we normally see at competition. There is no mention of building a kingdom or alliances, so maybe larger pre-determined alliances (like champ divisions) that span the whole competitions instead of switching alliances throughout?
Theres always the possibility for more then three robot per alliances that could be switched out throughout playoffs putting more focus on creating well rounded alliances (or kingdoms).
But obviously I'm hoping for a stronger defense and strategy heavy game after a season that involved no defense and little diversity in alliance strategy.

[EricLeifermann]

Not sure how this video is supposed to get the general public interested and excited about FIRST......

[OpalStone]

I'm considering the flag element may be similar to 2011 Logomotion with the minibots. Thoughts?

[logank013]

The blueprints shown in the video remain virtually the same when inverted.

http://put.nu/files/nuJbU3B.png

http://put.nu/files/FKvqU5p.png

Game is on a rotating platform and halfway through, the robots get lifted off the ground, the field flips 180, and puts the robots down.

[Poseidon5817]

I'm considering the flag element may be similar to 2011 Logomotion with the minibots. Thoughts?

That was my first thought. The flag is also included in the FIRST Stronghold logo, and based on past experiences, game pieces are almost always in the logo (except for Recycle Rush). More than likely, we will see the flag on the field somehow.

[Darkseer54]

I'm considering the flag element may be similar to 2011 Logomotion with the minibots. Thoughts?

Either that or a similar climb to 2010.

[Trevor1523]

What we saw this year with the announcement of the 2015/2016 FTC game was that it was much more complicated than the previous years. With all the strings, pulleys, etc..

We may see the same pattern carry over to FRC... I'm ready.

[logank013]

Not sure how this video is supposed to get the general public interested and excited about FIRST......

It could go either way. I shared this with my good friend who isn't involved in first. She watched it and was a little confused. Then I told her "it's the game hint for the 2016 game" and she then responded saying how she now understands why I'm so excited. So just explain its a game hint and the non foresters can understand the point of the video.

[jakehansen451]

Just a thought, I believe that the alternating trend of even years being ball games and odd years being non-ball games has been in place since 1996-1997, and hasn't been broken since 2001 (arguably 2009). I might be wrong on that, but it seems to me there's a pretty good chance that the main game piece will be a ball.

[EricH]

That was my first thought. The flag is also included in the FIRST Stronghold logo, and based on past experiences, game pieces are almost always in the logo (except for Recycle Rush). More than likely, we will see the flag on the field somehow.

Ya know, maybe they'll step away from the color-coded bumpers and go back to the flags of '06-'08 for alliance identification.

[Darkseer54]

I think it might be a single flag bearing robot with two defenders/offenders on each side, and end up with something similar to king of the hill. I feel like flags would be a very difficult gamepiece though b/c of entanglement.

[Jay O'Donnell]

Not sure how this video is supposed to get the general public interested and excited about FIRST......

Agreed. It didn't even get me excited, and the only reaction I'm seeing is about it being a game hint, not that the video was amazing.

[Sierra3883]

I still cannot figure out why they decided to release the game name. Especially that they released it so early, should we be scared or excited for this game?

[Shrub]

I saw it, and it might be the DayQuil brain fog, but I thought it was the Grand Tourney expansion from Hearthstone. I'd pay so much for a robo-murloc.

[Tom Line]

There is a red flag, and a blue flag. Two alliances. We already know substantial changes to the field size and shape are highly unlikely because of gym requirements at a lot of districts.

Pretty clear that the robot has the flag on it and they're all staring at a tower with no flag.

I think it's a game piece transference game, where the flag raises as additional weight in the form of game pieces are added to a platform of some type. I suspect there will be a rule against de-scoring or the field will simply prohibit it. Points awards to how high your flag is at the end of the match, with some bonus if you make it before time is up.

Those game pieces are universal, so both teams can take as many as they can get, but robots can only carry 1 game piece at a time.

Same style of scoring as last year though, where you're not competing with the other team - aggregate scores determine ranking.

[Travis Hoffman]

https://sites.google.com/a/neofra.com/first-for-newbies/Home/WhatAreThose.jpg

[pagoglia]

Midevil theme could be there to throw us off. Tug of war? Defend the homeland? They show team building bot in daylight. Then robot has functioning lights in a dark sky with lightening. Why lights?? Perhaps played in partial darkness?? And the lightening - Back to the Future ????

[Tom Line]

I still cannot figure out why they decided to release the game name. Especially that they released it so early, should we be scared or excited for this game?

Games are done well in advance of the season.

[Masterchi45]

I think the alliances are going to be bigger this! This one looks epic! Better than the last few games

[Trey178]

Ya know, maybe they'll step away from the color-coded bumpers and go back to the flags of '06-'08 for alliance identification.

Bumpers were confirmed to return a few weeks ago. It's unlikely they'll be different from its many previous incarnations. But for all I know they could color the team numbers and have a solid, neutral color for the cover.

[Sierra3883]

Games are done well in advance of the season.

Yes but my point is why release it? The fun of kickoff is finally figuring it all out at once yet for them to release a big part like the name in video form, it takes fun away from kickoff and creates wonder in all of us. Why would they choose this year to release their first game hint with the name itself. In past years it's been jumbles of numbers that none of us can solve yet why this year are they telling us all so soon?

[logank013]

Bumpers were confirmed to return a few weeks ago. It's unlikely they'll be different from its many previous incarnations. But for all I know they could color the team numbers and have a solid, neutral color for the cover.

Source? I believe you but I'm curious.

[lewislongbottom]

I think it has an obvious component of offence and defense due to the medieval theme that Disney has created.
I am intrigued by the fact that the blueprint is shown, it seems to good to be true. But I agree that it look as if it depicts a typical FRC field, it seems somewhat symmetrical (even when the image is inverted).

We have like 2.5 months to analyze what FIRST has given us, so hopefully the ideas don't die out fast.

[Jay O'Donnell]

Yes but my point is why release it? The fun of kickoff is finally figuring it all out at once yet for them to release a big part like the name in video form, it takes fun away from kickoff and creates wonder in all of us. Why would they choose this year to release their first game hint with the name itself. In past years it's been jumbles of numbers that none of us can solve yet why this year are they telling us all so soon?

The goal was to get more excitement outside of FIRST people. A normal hint has no chance to get people into the game, but a teaser video might.

[dellagd]

Here's a little bit more done with the Blueprint perspective correction. It really looks like it could be a really rough field sketch.

https://i.imgur.com/uU9evx5.png

[Poseidon5817]

https://sites.google.com/a/neofra.com/first-for-newbies/Home/WhatAreThose.jpg

I thought of this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cd/2005FRCCover.jpg/200px-2005FRCCover.jpg

[Monochron]

I'll throw in my speculation as well. I'm thinking some sort of asymmetric game-type or field. One alliance is assaulting the other's Stronghold. Possibly switch mid-math ala 2005 or possibly even (though unlikely) playing a whole match on one side.

Capture the flag type game fits . . . but I'm not sure it could be done in a way that isn't just robots spinning their wheels against each other for two and a half minutes.

[Trey178]

https://sites.google.com/a/neofra.com/first-for-newbies/Home/WhatAreThose.jpg

Seeing as these details aren't reflected on the blue flag, they're probably little more than red herrings. :D

[eli2410]

My first thought was, is this supposed to be like an animated Engineering version of Game of Thrones?

However, I think this whole Walt Disney Imagineering (henceforth refereed to as WDI or Imagineering) & FIRST partnership is great. As a FRC alum and a giant Disney Parks/WDI fan/geek, I love seeing two things I love come together.

Far warning to all, WDI is just as secretive as the FRC game design committee, but a hell of a lot more elaborate. Having been a Cast Member this past summer, I can tell you that everything there has a very elaborate backstory. During the orientation (On With the Show) for the park I worked at (Hollywood Studios/MGM Studios), they spent 15+ minutes talking about the backstory of the building at the front of the park that serves as Guest Relations, Sid's. Why did they do this? To point out the fact that they care about the story and the details for every singe thing there, whether it's the Guest Relations building, a restaurant (Mama Melrose's), or why there's giant dinosaur footprints near the lake (each of these they spent 15+ minutes talking about).

Why should you care? Because most of the stories they told didn't have much to do with the final product. Similar to FRC clues, you usually look back and realize "Oh, that make sense". So, what I'm saying is that it's pretty unlikely that this teaser has an immediate and direct connection. More than likely, this is just the beginning of an extremely elaborate storyline that we can't even predict where it is going to end.

Oh and just remember to take your time this season and "let the concrete dry". You don't want to end up with a Disco Yeti (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-08-01/business/os-disney-expedition-everest-yeti-080110_1_expedition-everest-real-yeti-walt-disney-world-spokeswoman) (sorry WDI, especially Joe Rohde, but I feel like this is a great example of when you should double check everything and take the extra time to make sure it's right).

[Darkseer54]

Here's a little bit more done with the Blueprint perspective correction. It really looks like it could be a really rough field sketch.

https://i.imgur.com/uU9evx5.png

Have to say I hope I'm wrong but the more I look at those towers the more they seem to seperate the field. I hope they are just hills or something similar. :eek:

[logank013]

Here's a little bit more done with the Blueprint perspective correction. It really looks like it could be a really rough field sketch.

https://i.imgur.com/uU9evx5.png

Thanks. That makes it seem so much easier to read. I feel like the blueprint means nothing major. I don't see anything that really resembles anything. It could have something minor in it but nothing really import at in my opinion

[Poseidon5817]

A lot of the figures on the blueprint look like music notes, and the lines near the top and bottom like lines in a staff. Maybe there is a message hidden as music?

[Travis Hoffman]

Seeing as these details aren't reflected on the blue flag, they're probably little more than red herrings. :D

The blue one has half-egg shapes on it. Those are CLEARLY the scoring goals, and these are the game pieces. Wow I can't wait to begin prototyping tomorrow!

Wait - half eggs? THE DRAGONS HAVE HATCHED! CLONES OF EMILIA CLARKE WILL BE A PART OF THE PLAYING FIELD!

FIRE GAME!

[tealmini]

To review:
Flags
>red and blue same shape, yellow different shape
>>flag bearing alliance identification and co-op?
>tower with blue and yelloe gryphon flag, gone towards end of match, pole, dragon red "vex" flag
>>mini bots climb poles like 2011, robots climb poles, pulley rope system
Other possibilities
>robot suspension
>field barriers
>larger drive team
>triangle based (flag?)
25th anniversary!!

[MikLast]

-Reserved for the 10% speed teaser that is uploading right now for your dissection-
Edit: here you go, have a field day. https://youtu.be/gEUS6nHKnp4

[Tom Line]

Yes but my point is why release it? The fun of kickoff is finally figuring it all out at once yet for them to release a big part like the name in video form, it takes fun away from kickoff and creates wonder in all of us. Why would they choose this year to release their first game hint with the name itself. In past years it's been jumbles of numbers that none of us can solve yet why this year are they telling us all so soon?

The game hint has been many things, from a poem-style teaser to a fish picture. It simply generates excitement, since without exact understanding of the game there's no real gain to be made by guessing what the hints might mean.

[Trey178]

Source? I believe you but I'm curious.

Check this out... (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-Frank-Answers-Friday-Pool-Noodles)

It's not the exact post I first found, but it gets the point across.

[James1902]

The goal was to get more excitement outside of FIRST people. A normal hint has no chance to get people into the game, but a teaser video might.

You know what might get people excited about a robotics competition...video of robots competing.

I don't understand FIRST's obsession with promoting everything but the fact that FIRST is freaking ROBOTS PLAYING SPORTS! We don't need themes to make people think that's cool, we need more stuff like RoboLeague (https://vimeo.com/139506546). The drama comes from the competition, not the theme.

All that aside: Cool game name, interested to see what it turns out to actually be.

[Jay O'Donnell]

You know what might get people excited about a robotics competition...video of robots competing.

I don't understand FIRST's obsession with promoting everything but the fact that FIRST is freaking ROBOTS PLAYING SPORTS! We don't need themes to make people think that's cool, we need more stuff like RoboLeague (https://vimeo.com/139506546). The drama comes from the competition, not the theme.

All that aside: Cool game name, interested to see what it turns out to actually be.

Agreed. If they were trying to appeal to adult engineers and high school students, this wasn't the best way to do it.

[GeeTwo]

Stronghold was the protagonsist's family name in Disney's Sky High (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405325/). I think that this year's game will favor Technopaths (the Stronghold Family's arch enemy is Royal Pain, a tecnopath, an individual who can control technology through mental processes). Maybe you need to build a pacifier to turn everyone into infants...

OBTW, do you know who did the video? - yes, Disney! Finally, if anyone doubts Disney's resolve at pulling wild back-references, look at the scene where they show the old Sky High yearbook. The photo of Pere Stronghold is very clearly borrowed from The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065566/), a Disney movie from the late 60's.

The primary alternative to technopathy is that the robot will be required, like Will Stronghold, to have both super-strength and the ability to fly.

Good Luck, teams!

[jpetito]

Totes yes. Other stuff? The knock-em-down stack-em-up thing has a lot to be said for it. Do defense or offense? Build or destroy? Like our efforts in 2013, you can't have it all, and building a machine that will do one thing requires more intense teamwork.

[Doug Frisk]

Anyone know if the current fields could be re-assembled like this?

It wouldn't make sense because the drivers station would be blocking the audience view. That is assuming the field is oriented as normal. If it were rotated 90 degrees it would impact layout at many sites potentially making basketball courts difficult to work on and it would still impact the view from the stands.

That said, a layout like that wouldn't be any more difficult to build than the 8 sided layout we had this year.

[Ginger Power]

The Blog post title was "The Teaser is Coming"... I was so to posting this (http://www.everbridge.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/winter-is-coming-jpeg-492x0_q85_crop-smart.jpg). What a missed opportunity...

[Darkseer54]

I don't know how much this was actually aimed at people who aren't in FIRST. It doesn't explain FIRST at all. I think that Frank just wanted to make a tent pun. :P

[TheRozb]

Hmmm... the thing with the blueprint... doesn't that all seem a bit too obvious? After all, we do have 2.5 months until Kickoff, and in the past years, the hints have been pretty obscure. It can't be that easy... Still excited, although, I am admittedly bummed that they told us the name so early.

[corriii_16]

Okay! After watching about 17 times, I think I can agree with most about the capture the flag idea. Maybe it'll be like racing to complete a checklist ASAP and then hanging you team flag high. Griffins vs. Dragons

#SorrynotSorry Team 1796 RoboTigers

[logank013]

Hmmm... the thing with the blueprint... doesn't that all seem a bit too obvious? After all, we do have 2.5 months until Kickoff, and in the past years, the hints have been pretty obscure. It can't be that easy... Still excited, although, I am admittedly bummed that they told us the name so early.

Think back to 2015 game hint. All the game hint did was reveal to a smart thinker the word "recycle". All that did was help give us the game title but even that wasn't fully confirmed. This year, they've already released so much about the game in comparison. Nobody last year could have been able to tell that we could be stacking totes and cans all season. But this year, we already know the name and can tell the game should be involving defense and the capturing if some item. Plus more speculations. Nothing is obvious in this video but this year's hint isn't so obscure as years past. And the game hint for 2015 made 100% sense when the game was released. I'm sure the hint with make a lot of sense once we know the game.

[Ginger Power]

I have a sneaking suspicion that our drivetrains will need to have a strong hold on the ground this year.

[tsobey]

Hey, so I just wanted to point out something that hasn't been mentioned up till now. There have been video games titled "Stronghold" such as:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stronghold_(2001_video_game)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stronghold_(1993_video_game)

I have played neither of these and thus know very little about them. I just want to throw these out there so that we don't get too caught up with the whole CTF idea.

[D.Allred]

Not sure how this video is supposed to get the general public interested and excited about FIRST......

Me neither. On the surface it has students building robots to face a challenge. But the animation style looked like it targeted a younger than high school age group.

So, would it grab your attention to check out the website? I'll show it to a few people not associated with FIRST.

For those of us inside the tent, there are a gillion details we can chase until Jan 9th.

David

[Madison]

I can't abide by LARPing at a robotics competition.

[BryceKarlins]

Stronghold was the protagonsist's family name in Disney's Sky High (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405325/). I think that this year's game will favor Technopaths. Maybe you need to build a pacifier to turn everyone into infants...
Jeez. That's a throw back! I kinda want to rewatch that now...

[jvriezen]

Think back to 2015 game hint. All the game hint did was reveal to a smart thinker the word "recycle".

I think last year's hint did lead to at some very good predictions prior to the kickoff: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1416736&postcount=411

[AlexanderTheOK]

Anyone think that the centre of the blueprint looks like a chain while the outer components look like heads (being looked at from the side and back)?

[tindleroot]

The Blog post title was "The Teaser is Coming"

Change is Coming...

[bscharles]

In many recent years, scoring happened in separate goals for each alliance, usually on opposite ends of the field (baskets in 2012, goals in 2014, etc.) I think we may see a combined goal, most likely in the center of the field (similar to Tower Power (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_Power)). Maybe the goal would represent a castle or other stronghold-themed element. This kind of shared scoring goal, with separate game pieces for each alliance, means teams not only have to be good at scoring, but fast too since there would be a limited number of game pieces able to be scored.

[tealmini]

What about a robot activated drawbridge? Two robots on the alliance needed to make it so the third member could pass. Or two robots on the opposing alliances needed to open bridge/ field barrier- part of the co-op. Also, what if raising a yellow flag means points for both alliances instead of just one? Anther thing-notice the swirls on one side of the field and the flaps where the swirls should be on the other side- what if robots need to do something at the swirls like sit there to open up the flaps and enable scoring?

[Mitchell1714]

A few observations after watching 10 times:

1. The beginning of the video where all the students are around the tents appears to resemble the pits and they later go to the field.
2. At 20 seconds there are 6 students in blue and 1 mentor in red looking at the robot in the pits. At 41 seconds there are 6 students and no mentor driving the robot. Will the GDC change the rules to disallow mentors to be robo-coaches?
3. At 41 seconds it is clear this is the drive team. 2 students have xbox controllers and are driving the robot. 1 student is in between the drivers instructing them. 1 student is standing off to the side with a flag, human player with game piece? Then there are 2 students in the back with their hands in the air as fists, what are they doing? Are they on the drive team?
4. The robot has 8 wheel tank drive. That was done on purpose, it would be easier to animate a 4 wheel or 6 wheel tank drive so there must be some driving obstacle.
5. In "the pits" in the beginning you can see the tower. There will likely be a large field element you can see from the pits.
6. Also in "the pits" in the beginning of the video, some tents (individual teams pits) have blue, red, or yellow flags, some have no flags. Why would we need to put flags in our pits? Could it be to symbolize what position in the game we are playing,ranking in qualification matches, something else?
7. The new improved plowie is made out of stones from the castle. Will a robot itself be the Stronghold?
8. At 23 seconds, why are 2 students putting a flag over the robot and at 25 seconds why is a student taking a brush to the robot? These 2 events are completely unrelated to the story-line.
9. At 42 seconds the robot's arms are in a karate fighting position. I assume this means the robot will have a manipulator come out of the bumper perimeter to interact with game pieces.
10.The video has a lot of flags in it. Will they be the game piece?
11. I have not figured out the blueprints yet.

These are just some ideas from the first hour of thinking about it. Don't take them too seriously.

[Trey178]

I think we may see a combined goal, most likely in the center of the field (similar to Tower Power (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_Power)). Maybe the goal would represent a castle or other stronghold-themed element. This kind of shared scoring goal, with separate game pieces for each alliance, means teams not only have to be good at scoring, but fast too since there would be a limited number of game pieces able to be scored.

Last time I can remember a center field goal was 2007's Rack 'n' Roll. Would be interesting to see it again.

[microbuns]

Blueprints look too much like a field diagram to not be one...

And the game seems to be capture the flag - opening shot being a flag, then the castle with the flag. Halfway though, the flag is gone from the castle and there is darkness and lightning -> evil/bad. Their flag got stolen. I'd be shocked if stealing flags is not part of this game.

Our team is looking forward to the branding opportunities with this game :P

[SoulianPride]

It's probably just me, but 'the teaser is coming' and a medieval setting have me thinking Game of Thrones, but on another note, I'm leaning towards Capture the Flag and King of the Hill.

[Poseidon5817]

Stronghold was the protagonsist's family name in Disney's Sky High (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405325/). I think that this year's game will favor Technopaths (the Stronghold Family's arch enemy is Royal Pain, a tecnopath, an individual who can control technology through mental processes). Maybe you need to build a pacifier to turn everyone into infants...

OBTW, do you know who did the video? - yes, Disney! Finally, if anyone doubts Disney's resolve at pulling wild back-references, look at the scene where they show the old Sky High yearbook. The photo of Pere Stronghold is very clearly borrowed from The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065566/), a Disney movie from the late 60's.

The primary alternative to technopathy is that the robot will be required, like Will Stronghold, to have both super-strength and the ability to fly.

Beat me to it.

A few observations after watching 10 times:
2. At 20 seconds there are 6 students in blue and 1 mentor in red looking at the robot in the pits. At 41 seconds there are 6 students and no mentor driving the robot. Will the GDC change the rules to disallow mentors to be robo-coaches?

This is an interesting idea also. It seems like more teams have been having student drive coaches recently.

[Jakenan]

Launching?

[indubitably]

Halo 5 has a game mode called Strongholds:
https://youtu.be/lbM5B7yesuI

Using Halo's definition of what a stronghold is would lead you to believe that there is a location to be "captured"

If the blueprint really is representative of the game field then maybe the large central structure will fly the flag of the team that has "captured" it by dumping/shooting game pieces into it or something.

[Pereichi]

In the "Capture the Flag" idea as the video seems to be hinting too, the original rules to Capture the Flag is to capture your opponent's flag. If caught in an opponents territory players are brought to jail and can only be saved by a teammate who can free them.

Do you think if the game does have relationships to Capture the flag that their could be a sort of jail type thing? where someone must rescue you, Just a theory, but would make for some serious teamwork.

Also in the game their are safe zones in your territory, Their could also be some kind of area like this in this game as well.

[TheRozb]

Launching?
That image though... I'm crying. It looks waay to much like a mobile game. And, like you pointed out, "Launching"? Is FRC, for their 25th year anniversary, doing a massive change? I mean, they talked about having a wider appeal beyond just the FRC FIRST community.

I'm probably overanalyzing this

[Hallry]

It looks waay to much like a mobile game.

Completely agreed. If I didn't know what FIRST was and someone showed me that banner (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19352&d=1444879844), the first thing I'd say is "Oh, that looks like a sweet game. Is it for iOS or Android?"

[FrankJ]

Sorry if I am late to the game. BUT. Did anybody notice stormy weather? Water game!

Seriously though. Since the other Frank specifically said this is not a game hint, this most really be a game hint?

[jeremylee]

Throwing "rocks" with catapults at each others "castles" that have openings of various points at different levels.

Flags that when pushed to a "zone" accrue points, endgame where flags remaining scored get doubled points, can't attempt to move opponents flags till last 20 seconds of match creating a do I attack or defend delema at end of match..

Auto points for moving flags to scoring positions and scoring rocks at start of match.

Bump like obstacles in middle with a bridge of some kind.



I was way off.. Knew it started with an S though!

[EricH]

Launching?

Oh, right. Standard practice for taking a stronghold in medieval times generally involved some combination of three or four methods.
1) Take a battering ram and "knock on the door". (Easily foiled by a moat with drawbridge.)
2) Dig in--dig under or through the wall. Sometimes accompanied by collapsing the wall to make a breach.
3) And if you didn't have manpower to waste, you'd throw things* using whatever catapults you could come up with.
4) Storm the castle. If you need an idea of that... just watch the orcs in Lord of the Rings a few times. (ladders, grappling hooks, climbing on each others' heads...) Usually used after one of the first three. (I'm ignoring #5, Siege, because that takes a tad too long.)

So... I could see some BLT robots "knocking on the door"; I could NOT see someone trying to dig (that's just not going to fly in most arenas); I could definitely see some flying balls of one size or another (been a while since the dodgeballs were used, over 10 years as I recall--after being quite a common game piece!).

*Rocks, rocks soaked in oil and set on fire, and just about anything else that could cause your opponent harm.

[FrankJ]

Definitely not GP to use your opponent's heads as ammo? Maybe a clock?

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

My prediction: Tetras are the game pieces. You need to make stacks of tetras on your side of the field(stronghold). At the same time, opposing teams can invade your stronghold to descore with their own tetras. Big 2003 esque ramp in middle for end game and traversing the field. Don't quite know what end game could be. Raising flag or king of the hill?

[BBray_T1296]

Oh, right. Standard practice for taking a stronghold in medieval times generally involved some combination of three or four methods.
1) Take a battering ram and "knock on the door". (Easily foiled by a moat with drawbridge.)
2) Dig in--dig under or through the wall. Sometimes accompanied by collapsing the wall to make a breach.
3) And if you didn't have manpower to waste, you'd throw things* using whatever catapults you could come up with.
4) Storm the castle. If you need an idea of that... just watch the orcs in Lord of the Rings a few times. (ladders, grappling hooks, climbing on each others' heads...) Usually used after one of the first three. (I'm ignoring #5, Siege, because that takes a tad too long.)

You forgot about the good old seige.
Nothing demoralizes an army quite like starving them out.

Completely agreed. If I didn't know what FIRST was and someone showed me that banner (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19352&d=1444879844), the first thing I'd say is "Oh, that looks like a sweet game. Is it for iOS or Android?"

Fortress Fury is available for iOS and Android devices. It is basically PvP Crush the Castle, or for the newer crowd, PvP Angry Birds

[EricH]

You forgot about the good old seige.
Nothing demoralizes an army quite like starving them out.

Nope, it's in there. #5. I put it in #4 because it's just not practical for an FRC game. Unless the game lasts the whole season, and somebody manages to cram all the teams in places with good weather into their shops for 6 weeks with no resupply runs...

[asid61]

Nope, it's in there. #5. I put it in #4 because it's just not practical for an FRC game. Unless the game lasts the whole season, and somebody manages to cram all the teams in places with good weather into their shops for 6 weeks with no resupply runs...

Our team is used to going without food and water. We never seem to restock anything in our snack cabinet, but you can always find 1-2 year old Chex Mix, marshmallows, and popcorn. Our magical stale food cabinet would let us ride it out.

[S.P.A.M.er 17]

I was really hoping that they would have finished last year's theme strong. Recycle Rush Again would have been almost too perfect for the first ever multi-year game.

I guess STRONGHOLD will have to do.

[Ginger Power]

What's the prediction for how many posts this thread gets up to before kickoff? I'm thinking well over 1000.

[EricH]

By the way...


I rather suspect that "Stronghold" isn't necessarily the name of the game (or rather, won't be later). It could be--has a rather catchy ring--but in some circles, stuff that is being worked on gets a "working title" that may or may not end up being the actual title of the thing being worked on. And Disney Imagineers work in or next to one of those industries as their day job.



And another thought.

I rather suspect that half of the reason (or more) for releasing the game hints and now the teaser is to generate more ideas for the next game under development. The other half is so the GDC can have a good (evil?) laugh at how close and yet how far any guesses are.

[Torvando]

I painted over all the lines on the blueprint to make it easier to see any important stuff.
19353

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

One more thing to note, the helmets in the video I think will be representative of the Holo Lens. Microsoft teased teams at championships last year and that may be where the disney imagination part comes into this.

[Aur0r4]

I'm surprised the dialog hasn't gotten more attention.

"Build your champion" "rally your kingdom" "Face the challenge ahead together".

Regardless of what the challenge actually is, this seems to hint at some kind of major alliance integration. Seeing only one robot featured in the animation made me initially think that there might even be modular robots where alliances put together a machine based on a common modularization scheme.

"Face the challenge together" seems to suggest a continuation of the "no direct competition" trend of last year which was heavily predicated by the chaos of Aerial Assist's very competition heavy game (it was basically football) mixed with FRC's very defense-averse penalty system.

I have long thought that FIRST is going to move FRC into the same format as FTC, FLL, and JR. FLL.....when you don't compete with people on the field. "Broader appeal"?

I mean, direct competition is not very politically correct anymore.

[bhaidet]

It's an even year, so we get a "ball" game. Probably kinda typical shoot to score. Possibly knocking into something (stone wall, if you believe the theme) rather than simply going through a hole? If I run with that too far I start imagining angry birds...
The endgame may involve transporting a minibot-like flag to a tower and raising it. FIRST really likes hints about endgames because they don't reveal much actual gameplay.

I'm unconvinced that the circles in the middle of the "field" drawing are actually solid structures. I certainly hope FIRST GDC didn't make the no-interaction mistake twice in a row....
I'm also unconvinced it's actually the field. It's more likely that this is a drawing of a game element, remember when the hint was a CAD model of one of the gates at the side of the field you walk through to place your bot? Super revealing...

[Aur0r4]

It's an even year, so we get a "ball" game. Probably kinda typical shoot to score. Possibly knocking into something (stone wall, if you believe the theme) rather than simply going through a hole? If I run with that too far I start imagining angry birds...
The endgame may involve transporting a minibot-like flag to a tower and raising it. FIRST really likes hints about endgames because they don't reveal much actual gameplay.

I'm unconvinced that the circles in the middle of the "field" drawing are actually solid structures. I certainly hope FIRST GDC didn't make the no-interaction mistake twice in a row....
I'm also unconvinced it's actually the field. It's more likely that this is a drawing of a game element, remember when the hint was a CAD model of one of the gates at the side of the field you walk through to place your bot? Super revealing...

"No interaction" wasn't a mistake.....I think that's a permanent change.

Their constant push towards Fairness (tm) in penalizing defensive play came to a head in Aerial Assist and caused quite a stir in the FRC community...and FIRST promised to address the issue.

Did they take a chill pill on penalties? Noooo....:D

Competitive interaction was nixed. I may be wrong, but I don't think its coming back. Synthetic fairness is better than genuine competition.

[orangemoore]

"No interaction" wasn't a mistake.....I think that's a permanent change.

Their constant push towards Fairness (tm) in penalizing defensive play came to a head in Aerial Assist and caused quite a stir in the FRC community...and FIRST promised to address the issue.

Did they take a chill pill on penalties? Noooo....:D

Competitive interaction was nixed. I may be wrong, but I don't think its coming back. Synthetic fairness is better than genuine competition.

Why would we need bumpers next year if no interaction was permanent?

[Aur0r4]

Why would we need bumpers next year if no interaction was permanent?

I'm sure there will be interaction...the question is competitive interaction. I.e. alliance robots playing defensively as well as offensively against each other.

I said I could be wrong, but given the format of all other FIRST leagues and the consertnation over FIRST's aggressive defensive penalty trend, I can see them designing competitive interaction out of FRC as a long term trend.

[Daler99]

Wouldn't it be great if FIRST Stronghold actually is a mobile game that launches on January 9? The actual game would then be something different.

@Everyone saying that no defense is staying: Frank told me at the 2015 RI District that a lack of defense is not a trend in future games.

~Daler

[Koko Ed]

Not a big fan of game hints to be honest but I'm curious to see how long it takes this thread to reach a thousand posts.

[Munchskull]

Not a big fan of game hints to be honest but I'm curious to see how long it takes this thread to reach a thousand posts.

It will loose steam in a few days...I think...maybe.

[JackFisher]

It's clash of clans.

[Munchskull]

It's clash of clans.

Micro transactions confirmed.

[Whippet]

Micro transactions confirmed.

Teams will be allowed to spend money for more weeks of build season and/or for FIRST to send builders to their workshops.

[anubiann00b]

Micro transactions confirmed.

Pay to win game confirmed.

[FTC5110]

Pay to win game confirmed.

What's new about that? There's a macro transaction up front :rolleyes:

[electroken]

Disney is all about princesses.
Shown at 37 seconds is a Nintendo Power Glove.
The Nintendo princess is Peach.
Peach must be rescued from the tower.

[Koko Ed]

It will loose steam in a few days...I think...maybe.

There's blood in the water and the Piranhas are biting. It's CD. This thread is gonna have legs all the way til January 9th.

[Foster]

The Red Dragon is a slightly modified version of the Drexel University Dragon.
http://alumni.cityyear.org/resource/resmgr/logos/gy_drexel_dragon.jpg

The Yellow Dragon is a version that they used a number of years ago in an ad campaign.

The interlooped drawing at the center is a close approximation on how Main, Randal and the Bossone Research Enterprise Center are connected together. (Robotics and Biotech)

Little known fact is that between those buildings, in what would be the center of the map is the best Philly Lunch trucks. If you stand in the center it's like being deep inside a small canyon.

Yes, the 2016 game is Lunch Truck Wars! Your robot is a lunch truck, you need to navigate the streets of Philadelphia. The lines on the blueprint outside area is the streets, those two stick figures with poles are actually construction workers with stop signs directing and redirecting traffic. If you look at the blue print there are a number of circles, I think those represent pot holes in the street.

Once you maneuver into the parking area, you'll need to feed the students. I'm guessing that they will reuse the Frisbee supply from a few years ago to be "plates of food" Red for Pizza, Yellow for Cheese steaks (wit!), White for Chinese food (on rice) and Blue is Gluten Free (bonus meals).

Most students fed wins. Maybe the endgame is getting back to your distribution point at night.

Here is the kicker, you want to feed as many as possible, so you need to distribute the food before the match (preloads). So scouting becomes very important on how many frisbee / food can a robot take and actually deliver.

I love it, best FIRST game ever!

[Foster]

There's blood in the water and the Piranhas are biting. It's CD. This thread is gonna have legs all the way til January 9th.

THIS should be a spotlight post!!!

[minch1396]

Capture the flag

If it's capture the flag then imagine more than three teams to an alliance??

[Zac Schofield]

I thought that it was interesting that on the official banner they have on the usfirst website, it also has green & yellow. While it's unlikely, I think it would be cool if there was 4 alliances somehow.

[MathFreak]

Here's what I thought:

Last year I've read about some alliances leaving one of the alliance members "disabled" so that the other two could score higher by themselves, does "Together" mean that the all the three teams have to do something together to score?

I'm curious about the robot's eyes lighting up in the video, does that mean the field will be dark (or have some huge box inside the field) and the robots need the light to see the field?

"Rally your kingdom" might be related with the teams' relationship (support and stuff) with their community

and I feel weird about the tilted logo too...

[RocketDean]

Did anybody notice that Dozer no longer has a "dozer" and now has hands with fingers?

[Foster]

Did anybody notice that Dozer no longer has a "dozer" and now has hands with fingers?

Because thats his 1/2 brother Gripper. :rolleyes:

[g_sawchuk]

It's an even year, so we get a "ball" game. Probably kinda typical shoot to score. Possibly knocking into something (stone wall, if you believe the theme) rather than simply going through a hole? If I run with that too far I start imagining angry birds...
The endgame may involve transporting a minibot-like flag to a tower and raising it. FIRST really likes hints about endgames because they don't reveal much actual gameplay.

And who says that they will continue the trend?
If they're bringing back bumpers, expect a game where there will be some aggressive game play either robot on robot or field on robot. If there was actually a field that could do damage to robots, that may be a concern, and I wouldn't expect FIRST to do something like that.
Secondly, many are suggesting a flag as a game piece. The possible issue with this is the durability of a flag. If the game does end up being capture the flag, I expect it to be a game piece that is not the shape of a flag, but symbolizes a flag (something more durable).

[olapmonkey]

I am feeling trebuchets and catapults

[CadetGizmo]

Honestly, the middle part of the alleged game field reminds me of a moat and drawbridge. I think that would be a cool aspect, sort of like a king-of-the-hill-ish feature.

Plus, moat means water game confirmed ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Jay Burnett]

I thought that it was interesting that on the official banner they have on the usfirst website, it also has green & yellow. While it's unlikely, I think it would be cool if there was 4 alliances somehow.

Also in that picture, the Red tent has a Blue flag and the Green tent has a Yellow Flag (in the bottom left corner)

[JohnBoucher]

A little Monty Python for you (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/monty-python-holy-grail-animation_561f475ae4b028dd7ea6aef3)

[natejo99]

I thought that it was interesting that on the official banner they have on the usfirst website, it also has green & yellow. While it's unlikely, I think it would be cool if there was 4 alliances somehow.

That would be a really interesting dynamic to a game... It'd be extremely intruiging to see how the alliances interacted.

[CadetGizmo]

Another thing I'm curious about is how the teaser image says "Build your champion."

It's probably referring to build season, but what if it isn't? Maybe modifications are required on the fly? Plus, it says champion as a singular word, rather than champions. I'd assume this is just referring to singular teams. "Rally your kingdom" probably refers to alliances.

This is probably mumbo jumbo, but maybe it's worth noting?...

[Tweedy399]

Has anyone notice the shadows on the blueprints? Is it just me or do they look symmetrical?

[DaveL]

A few observations after watching 10 times:

1. The beginning of the video where all the students are around the tents appears to resemble the pits and they later go to the field.
2. At 20 seconds there are 6 students in blue and 1 mentor in red looking at the robot in the pits. At 41 seconds there are 6 students and no mentor driving the robot. Will the GDC change the rules to disallow mentors to be robo-coaches?
3. At 41 seconds it is clear this is the drive team. 2 students have xbox controllers and are driving the robot. 1 student is in between the drivers instructing them. 1 student is standing off to the side with a flag, human player with game piece? Then there are 2 students in the back with their hands in the air as fists, what are they doing? Are they on the drive team?
4. The robot has 8 wheel tank drive. That was done on purpose, it would be easier to animate a 4 wheel or 6 wheel tank drive so there must be some driving obstacle.
5. In "the pits" in the beginning you can see the tower. There will likely be a large field element you can see from the pits.
6. Also in "the pits" in the beginning of the video, some tents (individual teams pits) have blue, red, or yellow flags, some have no flags. Why would we need to put flags in our pits? Could it be to symbolize what position in the game we are playing,ranking in qualification matches, something else?
7. The new improved plowie is made out of stones from the castle. Will a robot itself be the Stronghold?
8. At 23 seconds, why are 2 students putting a flag over the robot and at 25 seconds why is a student taking a brush to the robot? These 2 events are completely unrelated to the story-line.
9. At 42 seconds the robot's arms are in a karate fighting position. I assume this means the robot will have a manipulator come out of the bumper perimeter to interact with game pieces.
10.The video has a lot of flags in it. Will they be the game piece?
11. I have not figured out the blueprints yet.

These are just some ideas from the first hour of thinking about it. Don't take them too seriously.

This is great. I think the flag over a robot indicates that it died.
The 4 flag colors might mean that there will be 4 alliances. Having 2 robots per alliance for a total of 8 robots on the field at once would allow more teams to compete at once.

Looking at the blueprints, I think there will be gates that will have to be opened.
Will there be gate keepers, like in the Holy Grail?

Dave

[notmattlythgoe]

The 4 flag colors might mean that there will be 4 alliances. Having 2 robots per alliance for a total of 8 robots on the field at once would allow more teams to compete at once.


Even on a wide open field like 2014 8 robots would be too much. Add in obstacles and now there is no room to move. Just look at how little room there was in 2015.

[Catherine57]

The dragons look sort of Chinese style to me.

I think there is a sword in the top of the tower. Maybe whoever can retrieve it is king?

[kyle_hamblett]

Someone might have already said this, but one of the tings that I noticed was once the thunderstorm hit, it got dark and the robots lights turned on...
Playing in the dark? Might be fun...

[Libby K]

I can't abide by LARPing at a robotics competition.

SO true - I'm not sure that's the introduction to mainstream culture we want for ourselves...

For an organization that wants to brand itself as the "Sport for the Mind" and reach 'outside the tent', I don't think this 'theme' is going to resonate outside of the nerd-crowd as well as they think it is.

I think it's heaps better than Recycle Rush, and I'm sure Disney's help will make it crowd-friendly - but here's how I see it:

In 2010 or 2012, for example, you're practicing in the school, kicking soccerballs or shooting three-pointers from the key, and one of the students on your school's best Sportsball team walks by. Guess what? You've got common ground now. This is something they already 'get', and maybe they'll come to a competition to see it. Once they're there, they're hooked and want to do more FIRST. You've converted someone who didn't see the value in the robotics team, to a STEM enthusiast. Isn't that the whole point of why we do this?

Engagement from even an already-enthusiastic audience at an FRC demonstration was like pulling teeth this year, at least for us. In the middle of our summer day camp expo, a first-grader asked me: "Why would you want to make a robot that just stacks boxes? What about the cool frisbee one?" (We bring our 2013 robot to play outside with the campers, and demo FLL/FTC/FRC inside.)

I hope Stronghold will be a little more engaging, if only because all the blog posts, teasers, etc. made so far have led us to believe there's some robot interaction.

But as far as bringing people from 'outside the tent' in to FIRST? I'd pick an actual sport any day.

[1493kd]

I think there is a sword in the top of the tower. Maybe whoever can retrieve it is king?

Ok Ill take the bait and throw my 2 cents into this-

-Yes each alliance has a sword on their end of the field-
-High Points awarded for taking that sword from your opponents and placing it in a middle castle on the field before the other alliance-
- On each side of the castle are 2 arches that teams can pass thru to the opposing alliances side- one red one blue
- In the middle part of the castle is a gate or door that is much harder to pass thru but either team can go thru or use to place the sword
- Lower points are given for taking flags from your side of the field and planting them on our opponents side- for example 1 point for low placement- and 5 points for placing them in a more difficult position
-Human players can pass flags to robots from the side of the field to their alliance partners
-From the diagram it almost looks like human players on the side of the field could also be used to play some kind of defense/block progress this year- but safety of human defensive interaction with robots leads me to think now

Cant wait to be proven wrong

[Melonypond]

Capture the flag with blue, red, and yellow flags. Blue tries to get all of their flags to their side, red tries to get theirs. Each team has to steal from the other and play keep away. The yellow flags are in the middle for reverse coopertition. The goal is to have as many flags as possible in your scoring zone by the end of the time. Im also thinking obstructions to the drivers view could be part of it.

[swaxman12345]

From the dramatic shot of the tower, it looks almost like a king-of-the-hill arrangement.

[LlNUX]

What if every alliance has a different goal to achieve making everyone have to make choices on what mechanisms to focus on :eek:

[samefman]

of course Hallry starts this thread...

[gavmac928]

The teaser for the 2016 FRC Game:
usfirst.org/frc2016

This seems like pretty much the most straightforward game hint ever. Usually all the hint gets us is a name, and this tells us the name already! Plus, to kick off some speculation, notice the fact that the "champion" has bumpers. Also, the big tower featured seems like a likely field element to me.

[KelliV]

But as far as bringing people from 'outside the tent' in to FIRST? I'd pick an actual sport any day.

I totally agree. The connection to real sports in the past was amazing.

The first thing that came to mind when I saw this was LARPing. (Madison mentioned it as well). I can't see kids from sportsball getting excited about something that looks like a LARPing advertisement (albeit now with more robots). As someone who participated in High school sports I can say if this was what was supposed to get me interested in Robots I would probably have just stuck with cheerleading.

Hopefully this turns out well. Disney is a wonderful company who hopefully has helped create a great experience for the students. I'd love to see more kids want to be involved in FIRST.

[TAlholm]

tl;dr
Lunacy on carpet? Defend the trailers.

[Ari423]

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=138575

You got sniped.

[Doug Frisk]

I can't abide by LARPing at a robotics competition.

That settles it, I'm wearing my full renfest garb this year!

[JB987]

Shall we keep in mind that a 'flag' (an object) can be represented by a variety of other game pieces? Even a ball can represent a 'flag'.

[Electronica1]

tl;dr
Lunacy on carpet? Defend the trailers.

Replace the green and pink things on the 2009 trailer with a flag and you might be on to something. Maybe the trailer is also styled like a castle tower.

[jcatt]

Ok, So I don't usually post on these types of threads, (I don't think I have posted in general in over 2 years anyway) but I was talking with a fellow FIRST Alumni about the new game and something kinda struck me...

A few considerations first:

The blueprint from the teaser is representative of the playing field.
The suggestions of those previous that the driver stations are along the sides of the field instead of the ends.
Some large central scoring platform as indicated in the blueprint.
In the past few years it appears FIRST is trying to move teams into specializing more and limiting the ability for the "One Robot to Rule them All" teams.


So, you now have a field which is designed to limit the view of different positions of the driver station, where more defensive robots are placed on the side closes to the opponent alliance for a better view. While the more scoring oriented teams are in the middle and far positions. Trouble is this could cause chaos with the scheduling of the qualification rounds. (No defensive robots for the position, or all defensive robots, etc)

Now, it occurred to me that what if you implemented a class system for robots. You would have to pick your class at the start of the build season and the rules would be so different that it would be difficult to switch mid-season. You would also register at the event as that particular robot class and the scheduling system would be designed to accommodate one robot of each class per alliance. The class system would also be designed with tiered levels of robot complexity and/or game complexity, so only a particular class can achieve a specific game objective. If there are more robots in a particular class they get less matches so their average score counts much more that a lower populated class which gets a lot more matches. It also give the teams who pick the "easier" class, traditionally the smaller or less experienced teams a fairly good chance to play with the more advanced, powerhouse type teams who pick the top tier class.

Now the obligatory wildly unlikely supporting data from the teaser....

Rally your Kingdom - In recent Fantasy culture when Kingdoms when to "war" they would have different classes of combat: Calvary Knights, Archers, Footmen
Build Your Champion - In most RPG games where you pick your character (Champion) you are expected to select some specialization class.
Different colors of flags on the tents - Could indicate different classes of "soldier" as stated above

So there you have it. It was a fun little though experiment... Thinking completely outside the preconceptions of games gone past. Keeps the mind limber I suppose and in actual fact the more I think about it, the more it sounds awesome.

Anyway, enough from me spoiling the worthwhile conversation here. Have fun and I will see you all around game time! :cool:

P.S For all you scouting fanatics - Easier Scouting as you only have to look at the classes outside yourself and easier pick lists when you are confined to a specific set of robots for a particular role.

[ScottM]

Hmmm.....

A Maize and Blue Griffin versus a scarlet and gray dragon? :yikes:

[Whippet]

...

This. I really like the idea of different rules for different classes of robots, and it is actually reasonably plausible to implement.

[346CADmen]

I found the order of the video interesting. The champion (with blue banner), the Stronghold tower, then the red banner.
Could that imply alliances will build the stronghold in auto/early play and end game be attack opposition position? time will tell.

[liquidmetal9015]

I took a look at the blueprints: I removed the lines and highlighted the important parts.
http://i.imgur.com/pKzTofM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rQum59i.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CpQUmwz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sJNMiHM.jpg

[pryland]

Center goal (stronghold) color scored (raised flag easier for audience to understand who is winning) for which alliance has scored the most goals, and a way for the opposing alliance to remove opponents' goals (capture). Perhaps a brick castle?

Strong offense and defense aspects, which were sorely missed last year.



A few observations after watching 10 times:

2. At 20 seconds there are 6 students in blue and 1 mentor in red looking at the robot in the pits. At 41 seconds there are 6 students and no mentor driving the robot. Will the GDC change the rules to disallow mentors to be robo-coaches?

I would love to see this rule change.
As a mentor I STRONGLY believe it should ONLY be students in the driver stations. We are trying to develop leaders. Let them lead.:ahh:

[Jared Russell]

bp = ball pit

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/grownups.png

[Ty Tremblay]

But as far as bringing people from 'outside the tent' in to FIRST? I'd pick an actual sport any day.

As far as I'm concerned, 2010 and 2012 were the 2nd and 3rd most boring games in FRC since 2004 (2015 takes the cake, and I can't speak to earlier games).

What's most important is that the robot is exciting, not that the robot plays with soccerballs or foam basketballs.

We don't need a sport themed game. We don't even need a theme at all. We need an exciting game that's easy for spectators to understand and fun for teams to play.

We won't know if we have that until at least January 9, so don't be so quick to write this game off less than 24 hours after seeing a teaser.

[Michael Corsetto]

I would love to see this rule change.
As a mentor I STRONGLY believe it should ONLY be students in the driver stations. We are trying to develop leaders. Let them lead.:ahh:

:deadhorse:

No one take the bait...

Pryland, there are some great threads you can search for on here that discuss this topic at length.

-Mike

[Citrus Dad]

I'm really hoping this season's game incorporates game play outside the field. Disney is all about an interactive experience so maybe there will be greater opportunity for involvement off the field that could affect ranking.
FIRST is always about supporting other teams and reaching out to one another to create a better community. The "Build your champion. Rally your kingdom." tag line steps beyond the usual red alliance vs. blue alliance camaraderie we normally see at competition. There is no mention of building a kingdom or alliances, so maybe larger pre-determined alliances (like champ divisions) that span the whole competitions instead of switching alliances throughout?
Theres always the possibility for more then three robot per alliances that could be switched out throughout playoffs putting more focus on creating well rounded alliances (or kingdoms).
But obviously I'm hoping for a stronger defense and strategy heavy game after a season that involved no defense and little diversity in alliance strategy.

I think that the 2014 game which required much more interrobot interaction led to teams helping each other much more. I've posted on this observation numerous times on CD. I don't think we need a fixed alliance to lead to greater coopertion; rather a game structure that creates more interrelationships.

[Oblarg]

SO true - I'm not sure that's the introduction to mainstream culture we want for ourselves...

For an organization that wants to brand itself as the "Sport for the Mind" and reach 'outside the tent', I don't think this 'theme' is going to resonate outside of the nerd-crowd as well as they think it is.

I think it's heaps better than Recycle Rush, and I'm sure Disney's help will make it crowd-friendly - but here's how I see it:

In 2010 or 2012, for example, you're practicing in the school, kicking soccerballs or shooting three-pointers from the key, and one of the students on your school's best Sportsball team walks by. Guess what? You've got common ground now. This is something they already 'get', and maybe they'll come to a competition to see it. Once they're there, they're hooked and want to do more FIRST. You've converted someone who didn't see the value in the robotics team, to a STEM enthusiast. Isn't that the whole point of why we do this?

Engagement from even an already-enthusiastic audience at an FRC demonstration was like pulling teeth this year, at least for us. In the middle of our summer day camp expo, a first-grader asked me: "Why would you want to make a robot that just stacks boxes? What about the cool frisbee one?" (We bring our 2013 robot to play outside with the campers, and demo FLL/FTC/FRC inside.)

I hope Stronghold will be a little more engaging, if only because all the blog posts, teasers, etc. made so far have led us to believe there's some robot interaction.

But as far as bringing people from 'outside the tent' in to FIRST? I'd pick an actual sport any day.

Can I play devil's advocate for a moment, and suggest that there's nothing wrong with FIRST being just as enthusiastic about drawing influence from things that nerds like as from things that the general public likes?

Yes, the ultimate goal is to engender greater public awareness, enthusiasm, and respect for science and technology. I do not think, however, that we necessarily need to compromise on things we like that non-nerdy people might not in order to do that. If we truly believe that only way to make science appeal to the general public is to make it look like pro sports, then perhaps we ought to step back and reinterpret that as there being a lot more that we have to change.

For reference, I don't LARP. But I think that it is probably insensitive to people who do, and who enjoy it, to tell them that it is a mistake for FIRST to use imagery that appeals to their hobbies because their hobbies are too nerdy and would give people the "wrong impression" about the competition. If this is the cost of changing the public's attitude towards science and technology, then what attitudes are we really changing? I don't see the end result of a public who are fine with STEM - but only so long as it's packaged to look like pop culture - as a particularly impressive mark of progress.

[Citrus Dad]

I took a look at the blueprints: I removed the lines and highlighted the important parts.



Can you highlight the game field boundaries? Those are the lines I'll bet are the actual field set up.

[KeeganP]

I know many have pointed out the possibility of a "capture the flag" type game, but what if you take that a step farther and (using the two holes drilled on Dozer in the video) put a "target" on there. Now, the objective is to capture the flag (and defend your own flag from being captured) while getting hit as few times as possible. Maybe the "ammunition" are tennis balls. Maybe the game ends when you have successfully captured the flag and raised it up on your own "tower" or when time expires -- whichever comes first.

Alternatively, maybe we have another end game where you must raise the opposing flag up fastest (think 2011 but with flags, not minibots).

FIRST spent a ton of money on the totes this year, so I could potentially see them using the totes to build the "towers" on the field. Still not sure what purpose they serve exactly (I don't exactly see another 2003-style "knock it down to score points!" game.

In other news, how might one pick up a 1"dia PVC pipe (flag pole) off the ground? A fast, accurate mechanism that does that would be potentially tricky to build robustly enough to survive being hit by other robots. during gameplay.

[Citrus Dad]

SO true - I'm not sure that's the introduction to mainstream culture we want for ourselves...

For an organization that wants to brand itself as the "Sport for the Mind" and reach 'outside the tent', I don't think this 'theme' is going to resonate outside of the nerd-crowd as well as they think it is.

I think it's heaps better than Recycle Rush, and I'm sure Disney's help will make it crowd-friendly - but here's how I see it:

In 2010 or 2012, for example, you're practicing in the school, kicking soccerballs or shooting three-pointers from the key, and one of the students on your school's best Sportsball team walks by. Guess what? You've got common ground now. This is something they already 'get', and maybe they'll come to a competition to see it. Once they're there, they're hooked and want to do more FIRST. You've converted someone who didn't see the value in the robotics team, to a STEM enthusiast. Isn't that the whole point of why we do this?

Engagement from even an already-enthusiastic audience at an FRC demonstration was like pulling teeth this year, at least for us. In the middle of our summer day camp expo, a first-grader asked me: "Why would you want to make a robot that just stacks boxes? What about the cool frisbee one?" (We bring our 2013 robot to play outside with the campers, and demo FLL/FTC/FRC inside.)

I hope Stronghold will be a little more engaging, if only because all the blog posts, teasers, etc. made so far have led us to believe there's some robot interaction.

But as far as bringing people from 'outside the tent' in to FIRST? I'd pick an actual sport any day.

I think playground games like capture the flag (seemingly the consensus for this game), dodgeball, four square, tetherball could be good alternatives that also can capture the public's attention. We don't need to stick to the "commercial" sports.

[Libby K]

What's most important is that the robot is exciting, not that the robot plays with soccerballs or foam basketballs.

We don't need a sport themed game. We don't even need a theme at all. We need an exciting game that's easy for spectators to understand and fun for teams to play.

We won't know if we have that until at least January 9, so don't be so quick to write this game off less than 24 hours after seeing a teaser.

Excellent point, you're totally right. (Though I'm certainly not 'writing off the game' - just expressing that I'm not a fan of the theme.) I only meant to speak to the idea that there's different ways to find common ground for a new spectator - and that FIRST's idea of branding as 'sport for the mind' doesn't necessarily combine with this super well.

I think playground games like capture the flag (seemingly the consensus for this game), dodgeball, four square, tetherball could be good alternatives that also can capture the public's attention. We don't need to stick to the "commercial" sports.

True! IMO if it's something recognizable and spectator-friendly it's good - no matter what the theme. But that's the stuff we have to wait until January for. :)

I'm excited, as always, for something new - and I know sharing the trailer around the office has gotten a bunch of employees hyped for the season too!

[rlowe61]

After watching the video multiple times,
1. People are reading too much into the tents with the colored flags, imagine the tents are pits, no two are the same and all have different colors.
2. The map looks mirrored (somewhat), with a obstacle on each half (placement about like the scoring platform of recycle rush) and a major obstacle in the center, which resembles a "figure 8".

My best guess of something fun is, of course "Capture the Flag", however with a "twist". To get to the opposite side of the field, or return, you have to drive the "Figure 8" (enter in the middle, do a full 8 and exit the middle.
Imagine the collisions! Or better yet. after running half of the 8 you have to pass the flag off to an alliance partner to complete the 8 and return to your half for scoring. :ahh: :ahh:

We all know there are many things that can happen from the multiple possible hints given in the video. :confused:
Who knows, maybe the GDC is reading this and many other forums for hints on how to alter their plans for the game. There's still plenty of time to change the game and cut the release video. Be careful what you guess it might come true. :deadhorse:

Have Fun and Good Luck

[Citrus Dad]

Oh, right. Standard practice for taking a stronghold in medieval times generally involved some combination of three or four methods.
....(I'm ignoring #5, Siege, because that takes a tad too long.)


No, the GDC decided that they needed to surpass the 2015 game!!! ;)

[Citrus Dad]

Who knows, maybe the GDC is reading this and many other forums for hints on how to alter their plans for the game. There's still plenty of time to change the game and cut the release video. Be careful what you guess it might come true. :deadhorse:

I don't think they have time to substantially change the configuration of the game at this point. It's less than 2 months to ship date. They might tweak the rules, but that's it.

[Oblarg]

I don't think they have time to substantially change the configuration of the game at this point. It's less than 2 months to ship date. They might tweak the rules, but that's it.

Pretty much this. All the information I've ever seen on the game-design process indicates that the time-scales involved in setting games for each year is years, not weeks.

[Ben Martin]

SO true - I'm not sure that's the introduction to mainstream culture we want for ourselves...

For an organization that wants to brand itself as the "Sport for the Mind" and reach 'outside the tent', I don't think this 'theme' is going to resonate outside of the nerd-crowd as well as they think it is.

I think it's heaps better than Recycle Rush, and I'm sure Disney's help will make it crowd-friendly - but here's how I see it:

In 2010 or 2012, for example, you're practicing in the school, kicking soccerballs or shooting three-pointers from the key, and one of the students on your school's best Sportsball team walks by. Guess what? You've got common ground now. This is something they already 'get', and maybe they'll come to a competition to see it. Once they're there, they're hooked and want to do more FIRST. You've converted someone who didn't see the value in the robotics team, to a STEM enthusiast. Isn't that the whole point of why we do this?

Engagement from even an already-enthusiastic audience at an FRC demonstration was like pulling teeth this year, at least for us. In the middle of our summer day camp expo, a first-grader asked me: "Why would you want to make a robot that just stacks boxes? What about the cool frisbee one?" (We bring our 2013 robot to play outside with the campers, and demo FLL/FTC/FRC inside.)

I hope Stronghold will be a little more engaging, if only because all the blog posts, teasers, etc. made so far have led us to believe there's some robot interaction.

But as far as bringing people from 'outside the tent' in to FIRST? I'd pick an actual sport any day.

All we (really) have so far is the name, a theme and that there are bumpers. There is still plenty of flexibility in the theme for this to be a projectile game as well. Maybe footballs-- "Get the balls in while a robot trys to block them"--etc

[GeeTwo]

In other news, how might one pick up a 1"dia PVC pipe (flag pole) off the ground? A fast, accurate mechanism that does that would be potentially tricky to build robustly enough to survive being hit by other robots. during gameplay.

The manipulators on Gripper (the robot in the video) seem better adapted to pick up and position a flagpole than a ball.

[notmattlythgoe]

The manipulators on Gripper (the robot in the video) seem better adapted to pick up and position a flagpole than a ball.

Because the robots in any of the game videos have always had efficient manipulators for the game pieces :rolleyes:

[mwtidd]

Excellent point, you're totally right. (Though I'm certainly not 'writing off the game' - just expressing that I'm not a fan of the theme.) I only meant to speak to the idea that there's different ways to find common ground for a new spectator - and that FIRST's idea of branding as 'sport for the mind' doesn't necessarily combine with this super well.

I'm excited, as always, for something new - and I know sharing the trailer around the office has gotten a bunch of employees hyped for the season too!

I'm personally surprised by the theme as well. I've been very impressed with how Disney has handled certain assets (specifically lucasfilm and marvel) to make STEM seem cool and interesting to the masses. The cartoonish middle ages theme seems a little oddly positioned, especially given some of the current imagineering projects (iron man, star wars, toy story, etc). I realize FIRST wouldn't have rights to those assets, but the execution could be similar. I'm quite curious about how much creative direction for the theme came from FIRST vs Disney.

That being said, given the discussions of possible game play, I am optimistically anticipating a game that could be quite entertaining for spectators.

[notmattlythgoe]

I'm personally surprised by the theme as well. I've been very impressed with how Disney has handled certain assets (specifically lucasfilm and marvel) to make STEM seem cool and interesting to the masses. The cartoonish middle ages theme seems a little oddly positioned, especially given some of the current imagineering projects (iron man, star wars, etc). I realize FIRST wouldn't have rights to those assets, but the execution could be similar. I'm quite curious about how much creative direction for the theme came from FIRST vs Disney.

That being said, given the discussions of possible game play, I am optimistically anticipating a game that could be quite entertaining for spectators.

Disney has handled those assets well by take a very hands off approach. The best decision they made after purchasing Marvel was to let them keep doing their thing.

[Travis Hoffman]

I painted over all the lines on the blueprint to make it easier to see any important stuff.
19353

In the upper right, you can clearly make out the word "LOLL". The GDC is trolling all of you. :cool:

[Electronica1]

What if the only thing relevant from the teaser is the game logo at the end? (notice the striped flag)

[MoistRobot]

Sticking with a capture the flag and defend/attack theme I'm thinking maybe a target that you fling game pieces at (bean bags?) that will raise your alliance flag (some sort of balance) while it's possible for the opposition to fling them at an opposing target that would lower your flag. You're then left with the choice of trying to raise your flag or lower the opposition's.

[Gibso23]

Ya know, maybe they'll step away from the color-coded bumpers and go back to the flags of '06-'08 for alliance identification.

I was thinking the same thing until further looking at the video and there seem to be a hint that there will be bumpers in the game

[notmattlythgoe]

I was thinking the same thing until further looking at the video and there seem to be a hint that there will be bumpers in the game

There was more than a hint in the FRC Blog previously.
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-Frank-Answers-Friday-Pool-Noodles

[Hallry]

I was thinking the same thing until further looking at the video and there seem to be a hint that there will be bumpers in the game

From when bumpers started in 2006 through 2009, they could be any (http://geekdad.com/images_blogs/geekdad/images/2007/04/18/first039_2.jpg) color (http://moe365.org/gfx08/DynaMOE%20Folded%20-%20JAW11843w400q7.jpg) of (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh70/thefro526/DSC02318.jpg) your (http://www.team811.com/_images/robots/2008_EllaVader.jpg) choice (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/fb/1d/ec/fb1decfc4c1f13c368fdf2d0a479630c.jpg) (they could also say other (http://frc971.org/sites/default/files/styles/square_thumbnail/public/2007.JPG?itok=2I7bl7CY) things (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fe/Chewy2.jpg/220px-Chewy2.jpg) in addition to your team number). Other means (flags, posts on the Lunacy trailers) were used to identify alliance members. It wasn't until 2010 that bumpers became regulated as blue and red to signify alliances.

[Caleb McCune]

Does anyone else think that the tower may be an objective in the game to come?

Edit: Also 2 flags were shown in the video, so a possibility of CTF?

Thoughts?

[Jacob Bendicksen]

Ok, So I don't usually post on these types of threads, (I don't think I have posted in general in over 2 years anyway) but I was talking with a fellow FIRST Alumni about the new game and something kinda struck me...

A few considerations first:

The blueprint from the teaser is representative of the playing field.
The suggestions of those previous that the driver stations are along the sides of the field instead of the ends.
Some large central scoring platform as indicated in the blueprint.
In the past few years it appears FIRST is trying to move teams into specializing more and limiting the ability for the "One Robot to Rule them All" teams.


So, you now have a field which is designed to limit the view of different positions of the driver station, where more defensive robots are placed on the side closes to the opponent alliance for a better view. While the more scoring oriented teams are in the middle and far positions. Trouble is this could cause chaos with the scheduling of the qualification rounds. (No defensive robots for the position, or all defensive robots, etc)

Now, it occurred to me that what if you implemented a class system for robots. You would have to pick your class at the start of the build season and the rules would be so different that it would be difficult to switch mid-season. You would also register at the event as that particular robot class and the scheduling system would be designed to accommodate one robot of each class per alliance. The class system would also be designed with tiered levels of robot complexity and/or game complexity, so only a particular class can achieve a specific game objective. If there are more robots in a particular class they get less matches so their average score counts much more that a lower populated class which gets a lot more matches. It also give the teams who pick the "easier" class, traditionally the smaller or less experienced teams a fairly good chance to play with the more advanced, powerhouse type teams who pick the top tier class.

Now the obligatory wildly unlikely supporting data from the teaser....

Rally your Kingdom - In recent Fantasy culture when Kingdoms when to "war" they would have different classes of combat: Calvary Knights, Archers, Footmen
Build Your Champion - In most RPG games where you pick your character (Champion) you are expected to select some specialization class.
Different colors of flags on the tents - Could indicate different classes of "soldier" as stated above

So there you have it. It was a fun little though experiment... Thinking completely outside the preconceptions of games gone past. Keeps the mind limber I suppose and in actual fact the more I think about it, the more it sounds awesome.

Anyway, enough from me spoiling the worthwhile conversation here. Have fun and I will see you all around game time! :cool:

P.S For all you scouting fanatics - Easier Scouting as you only have to look at the classes outside yourself and easier pick lists when you are confined to a specific set of robots for a particular role.

I love the idea of classes of robots, but it would severely limit the possible alliances. Especially at district events, you'd end up with the same teams playing together more often than you'd like. I'd much rather have a game (and I think it would be more likely for FIRST to build a game) where any team can play with any team, at least in theory.

There's enough room for specialization in any game -- no need for FIRST to enforce it.

[EricLeifermann]

I love the idea of classes of robots, but it would severely limit the possible alliances. Especially at district events, you'd end up with the same teams playing together more often than you'd like. I'd much rather have a game (and I think it would be more likely for FIRST to build a game) where any team can play with any team, at least in theory.

There's enough room for specialization in any game -- no need for FIRST to enforce it.

There were classes of robots in 2007. Alliances were not limited.....

[T3_1565]

There were classes of robots in 2007. Alliances were not limited.....

what are these classes you speak of? teams made their own specialized bots but they were not FIRST regulated classes.

Specialists happen every year.

[notmattlythgoe]

what are these classes you speak of? teams made their own specialized bots but they were not FIRST regulated classes.

Specialists happen every year.

FIRST regulated classes just won't work in a randomized match setup. In the manner that is being proposed.

[Christopher149]

what are these classes you speak of? teams made their own specialized bots but they were not FIRST regulated classes.

Specialists happen every year.

Weight-restriction for height class. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_%27n_Roll

Class I II III
Height 48 in (1,219 mm) 60 in (1,524 mm) 72 in (1,829 mm)
Weight 120 lb (54 kg) 110 lb (50 kg) 100 lb (45 kg)

[EricLeifermann]

Weight-restriction for height class. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_%27n_Roll

Class I II III
Height 48 in (1,219 mm) 60 in (1,524 mm) 72 in (1,829 mm)
Weight 120 lb (54 kg) 110 lb (50 kg) 100 lb (45 kg)

Exactly, in 2007 you had to pick a class based on how tall your robot was, and you were inspected based on which class you declared and could not change for the duration of the competition(you could change in between comps).

[pavong]

What about the robot in the video, anyone notice the eyes? They look alot like camera lenses, maybe robot vision will play a more important role in the game. Flag colour detection?

[OAXACA]

Moats are around castles.


Water Game Confirmed.

:deadhorse:

[BBray_T1296]

From when bumpers started in 2006 through 2009, they could be any (http://geekdad.com/images_blogs/geekdad/images/2007/04/18/first039_2.jpg) color (http://moe365.org/gfx08/DynaMOE%20Folded%20-%20JAW11843w400q7.jpg) of (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh70/thefro526/DSC02318.jpg) your (http://www.team811.com/_images/robots/2008_EllaVader.jpg) choice (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/fb/1d/ec/fb1decfc4c1f13c368fdf2d0a479630c.jpg) (they could also say other (http://frc971.org/sites/default/files/styles/square_thumbnail/public/2007.JPG?itok=2I7bl7CY) things (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fe/Chewy2.jpg/220px-Chewy2.jpg) in addition to your team number). Other means (flags, posts on the Lunacy trailers) were used to identify alliance members. It wasn't until 2010 that bumpers became regulated as blue and red to signify alliances.

I think the bumper rules as of lately were the correct step that should not be reversed. It is much easier to tell who is on what team at all times, from queueing to mid-match.

The only way I could see a return to any-bumper-color-goes is in two situations:
a) There are NO alliances whatsoever, everyone plays by themselves against everyone, so you already know bumper colors don't matter
b) There are pre-determined roles that each robot must play, say in a 3v3 match each robot has a "attacker" a "defender" and something else, which is permanent through the match. This would require up to 6 different indicators for a robot to have, and asking for 6 sets of bumpers is ridiculous, so they switch to something else (like flags)

[MikLast]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9PvIsZL4cg
newton skunk on point with the MLG

[GeeTwo]

Exactly, in 2007 you had to pick a class based on how tall your robot was, and you were inspected based on which class you declared and could not change for the duration of the competition(you could change in between comps).

I read the robot rules for 2007 last month, and I don't recall a requirement (or massive benefit) to an alliance being composed of exactly one robot of each class; it was simply a rules trade-off for each team, so unless I missed something, this is quite different than the proposed class system.

[Harp98]

When you look at the characters in the video, its easy to see which are students vs the one who is the mentor (women in the purple robe). Then later in the video, from :36 to :44 you see what appears to be the drive team getting ready.

Now assuming the extra three represent the cheering stands it makes sense as mentioned earlier for the idea for no mentor drive coach, or even any drive coach at all, this is assuming the game has aspects that will have visual obstructions and dont want the drive team getting help.

Just my thoughts and first post

[JB987]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9PvIsZL4cg
newton skunk on point with the MLG

Who in the heck has enough free time to put together something as cool as this mash up so quickly? Well done!

[MKalb]

I demand a trial by robot!

[Ubiquity]

First of all - NO WATER as in actual H2O

(I am not sure if everyone yelling 'water game' is being sarcastic or not. I hope so, but just in case):

1: Most venues don't like water spilled on nice expensive wood basketball courts. FIRST doesn't like to pay damage expenses or alienate the venue.

2: Many robots experience electrical problems when splashed with water, this is a safety issue.

3: Wet carpet is hard to transport.

A false 'moat' filled with McDonald's Playland balls or other simulated 'water' hazard is possible.

Before spinning your wheels endlessly - how well have past hints accurately predicted the game? In about 10 weeks we will all know. I wouldn't be spending a lot of time boning up on "Game of Thrones" or "Lord of the Rings" to prepare.

[Jalerre]

The more I look at the blueprint, the more I think that it is just a design for the new Dozer. It would make sense for a robotics team to be designing a robot and not a field (there is the argument that they are studying the field for strategic reasons, but a blueprint usually means they are designing something). Also right after they show the blueprint, there is the representation of the build season to produce the final robot.

BTW I haven't spent much time looking at the blueprint so I haven't exactly figured which parts of the blueprint are which parts of the robot

[Hallry]

(I am not sure if everyone yelling 'water game' is being sarcastic or not. I hope so, but just in case)

This might clear it up for you (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8a/a5/c9/8aa5c93326e192c7e8a22e92786bfaa6.jpg)

[topgun]

I think them showing 6 members on a team is significant, somehow having more human players involved than in years past.

I could see a spinning center obstacle that needs to be pushed to get to the other side of the field or blocked to prevent other robots from entering your space.

I don't think the basics of the field will change significantly from the current setup. Too many statics venues and basic field structure constants prevent wildly different driver station setup.

I can't wait until January 9th!

[Travis Hoffman]

The blue flag has half-egg shapes on it. Those are CLEARLY the scoring goals, and the hexagons on the red flag are the game pieces. Wow I can't wait to begin prototyping tomorrow!

Wait - half eggs? THE DRAGONS HAVE HATCHED! CLONES OF EMILIA CLARKE WILL BE A PART OF THE PLAYING FIELD!

FIRE GAME!

Actually, my guess is I got it backwards. The "eggs" are actually the game pieces - FOOTBALLS.

The hexagons are representative of the many (mobile) hexagon-shaped goals to be fought over by each alliance "stronghold".

I like the idea of "drawbridges" or dare I suggest see-saw bridges in the middle of the field, along with a king of the hill fixed center goal on top of a ramp.


What if there are more goals than alliances? Maybe we're not playing Capture the Flag...we're playing Domination....

[Poseidon5817]

What about the robot in the video, anyone notice the eyes? They look alot like camera lenses, maybe robot vision will play a more important role in the game. Flag colour detection?

This.

Some ideas I've been thinking about:

1. No mentor drive coaches. I'm not saying whether or not it is a good idea, but it seems likely.
2. Based on the fact that every recent year (except Recycle Rush) has had a game piece in the game logo, we can except to see a flag on the field.
3. Only red and blue alliances. The flag in the logo is only red and blue.
4. You'll notice that near the end, the robot drivers are driving while looking down the field. However, their robot is next to them. Maybe you will have to drive other team's robots? (very unlikely, but would require teams to design robots to be able to be driven easily, and have restrictions on the motion of mechanisms)
5. Similar to the last idea, we might have a section of the field where you cannot see your robot and have to drive from camera only. This could explain the design of the robot's eyes. This could also explain the choice to use a radio with only 2 ports, because there could be a rule where you can only use 1 camera.

Put it all together. Red and blue alliances in a CTF game with a tall midfield divider. Each alliance has a certain amount of objects to be captured. You score points by driving to the other alliance's side of the field, capturing a game piece, and delivering it to your side. The catch is that you can only see your robot while defending your flags. As soon as you cross to the opponent's side, you can only rely on camera feedback to capture the other alliance's flags This would make defending much easier, and scoring much more challenging.

[Caleb Sykes]

1. No mentor drive coaches. I'm not saying whether or not it is a good idea, but it seems likely.

I would still say it is unlikely (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-rookie-registration-and-on-field-coaches).

[TheRozb]

It's really fun watching this whole thing come alive.
Anyway...

Some ideas that have been brought up:
-Multiple Alliances (more than 2). Probably not. As someone else has stated, field size would be an issue, and trying to increase or change the field size or shape could cause a lot of issues.

-Blueprint being the Field. Maybe??? I'm still skeptical. The middle part seems a bit too big, and the ends don't really look like anything that would be on the field. Plus, it is all a bit to obvious. (or maybe it's not. We are still talking about it)

-CTF. Sure, but how would that work well? Grab a flag... and then??? Drop it off at your team stand for a point? Time based in possession? It would be hard to do well. Maybe I just have a small mind

-Classes. Unlikely. Not really fair, because then you are forcing teams into a cookie cutter which isn't really what FIRST is about.

-Competitive Interaction between alliances (aka Defense). I really hope that last year's lack of interaction was a onetime thing. After all, they want to appeal to a broader audience, and would you rather watch a round of football live, or a round of golf live? (not trying to insult to golf players out there). Just that defense makes the game MUCH more interesting.

Well, that was my soapbox.

[MrForbes]

Actually, my guess is I got it backwards. The "eggs" are actually the game pieces - FOOTBALLS.

yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alectronic]

Mods, can this thread be close in favor of the other?

[naldarn]

https://sites.google.com/a/neofra.com/first-for-newbies/Home/WhatAreThose.jpg

Those are Mickeys!!!!

[Michael Hill]

Wow, that's weird. They didn't just change their font, which would make sense because FIRST's usual font is a little too stiff to fit in with rest of the game logo; but they also tilted the red triangle, and moved the blue square forwards. Usually its left corner is behind the red triangle's right corner.
Why would they do that? I don't think it makes a difference to the design of the game logo. I'm not saying it's a game hint--I really don't think it is--I just think that's totally weird. Unless they're going to change the official logo to that soon and just haven't gotten around to it yet

I just noticed the hero graphic had changed from when it was debuted. They removed the titled triangle logo from the webpage.

https://youtu.be/5J5aHLeVa4A?t=2044

http://www.usfirst.org/frc2016

[MKalb]

Those are Mickeys!!!!

Three hexagons up front. The dragon has three heads. Azor Ahai confirmed.

[sciencenuetzel]

This.

Put it all together. Red and blue alliances in a CTF game with a tall midfield divider. Each alliance has a certain amount of objects to be captured. You score points by driving to the other alliance's side of the field, capturing a game piece, and delivering it to your side. The catch is that you can only see your robot while defending your flags. As soon as you cross to the opponent's side, you can only rely on camera feedback to capture the other alliance's flags This would make defending much easier, and scoring much more challenging.

This sounds fun

[RocketDean]

I definately think the hard emphasis on "together" at the end of the video could mean that it is player vs. Field...

[Bob Steele]

Who in the heck has enough free time to put together something as cool as this mash up so quickly? Well done!

Stompin' on Dozer....

One of our alumni from last year... (one of the Daves) put this together.... He is amazing.

[Duffy509]

Is anyone else bothered by the Stronghold font? I don't understand why they would put a tail on the g and started seeing the r and n as a j I front of each letter. Also the way they combined the l and d makes it look like a u. I remember a cryptology game hint a couple years back and was wondering if this might be a key or if I have spent to many hours on this already.

[MikLast]

Stompin' on Dozer....

Do me a favor and give that guy props. He is living the dream.

[Ian Curtis]

I suspect their graphic designers played the same video games as me when they were 12. Fun game!

http://www.gamershell.com/static/boxart/large/2896.jpg

http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2016/frc-2016-hero2.jpg

[dellagd]

I just noticed the hero graphic had changed from when it was debuted. They removed the titled triangle logo from the webpage.

https://youtu.be/5J5aHLeVa4A?t=2044

http://www.usfirst.org/frc2016

You're right.

Weird...

[Robogeddon]

#dozerlives

[Peter Cudmore]

One thing I have not seen brought up but occurred to me. If they are now partnered with the Disney Imaginarium people can we possibly expect non standard field elements designed by the partner. Perhaps the field itself will have moving components or might be a lot more high tech then we have seen before?

[George1902]

I just noticed the hero graphic had changed from when it was debuted. They removed the titled triangle logo from the webpage.

https://youtu.be/5J5aHLeVa4A?t=2044

http://www.usfirst.org/frc2016
The first thing I thought of when I saw the Stronghold banner was that it violated the FIRST Branding & Design Standards (http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/FRC_Communications_Resource_Center/Branding_and_Logos/FIRST_BrandGuidelines_web.pdf).

[omalleyj]

What do dragons and griffons have in common? Wings!
Flying game confirmed!
:yikes: