View Full Version : 2016 NASA Grant Announcement Day
Travis Hoffman
06-11-2015, 17:46
Today's the day NASA targeted for announcing 2016 NASA grant recipients. Their goal is to announce by 3:00 AM Eastern, midnight Pacific.
They updated their site earlier today to report they are working on finalizing the review process. As always, they appreciate our patience. There have been times in the past where circumstances required a little extra time to deliberate beyond the originally targeted deadline.
A link to the recipient page should be posted to http://robotics.nasa.gov/ once they are ready to announce.
Good luck to all applicants. :)
Travis Hoffman
07-11-2015, 11:43
Bump. Nothing yet announced.
alextound
07-11-2015, 12:11
I hope this doesnt mean Munday
kyle_hamblett
07-11-2015, 12:24
I'm relatively new to the NASA grant process. Is it generally this late (or late at all)?
I'm relatively new to the NASA grant process. Is it generally this late (or late at all)?
It is very frequently delayed.
GaryVoshol
07-11-2015, 15:12
The "NASA is working too much" rule? http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1488484&postcount=1
alextound
07-11-2015, 23:45
They be playing with tooo many emotions
alextound
08-11-2015, 13:38
Woooo Hoooo WE GOT 1/233 grants!! JK no post yet :mad:
alextound
08-11-2015, 18:29
What does "diligent" mean....I'm thinking it means "not working on weekends"
Nate Laverdure
08-11-2015, 18:39
What does "diligent" mean....I'm thinking it means "not working on weekends"
Not appropriate.
Didn't they announce the grant recipients the Monday after the targeted date last year? (I remember being informed that our team received the grant on a Monday, but I may be mistaken...)
alextound
08-11-2015, 23:42
::rtm:: :confused:
::rtm:: :confused:
Welcome to the real world. "On time" is sometimes taken as a four-letter word. "When I want it done by" suffers the same fate, particularly when "when you want it done by" happens to be "on time". The NASA grant announcements have been late before; they'll be late again. Next you'll be expecting Champs closing ceremonies to end on time.
And BTW, if, as your earlier post seems to indicate, you think that the NASA folks should be working over the weekend on this... Let's just say that getting me started on that will result in a very long post or PM, at the end of reading which you'll probably be feeling rather beaten up, and I'll be almost certainly feeling pretty lousy myself for writing and sending it. Suffice it to say that working weekends--on top of your normal work week--is something to be avoided if possible.
nick4130
09-11-2015, 09:22
What does "diligent" mean....I'm thinking it means "not working on weekends"
I'm sorry, but this is unnecessary. Be happy that you have the possibility to earn money from NASA. Don't be greedy about it.
David Brinza
09-11-2015, 12:28
What does "diligent" mean....I'm thinking it means "not working on weekends"
That is so wrong. :(
I'm absolutely certain that some evenings and weekends were spent evaluating the 600+ proposals. The end-game (who does/doesn't get a grant) is very challenging and handled by very few dedicated and committed individuals. They know the NASA grant is make-or-break for many teams and need to make hard decisions. Be thankful for those NASA people who care about all the FRC teams (not just their own).
BTW, many NASA people routinely work on evenings and weekends for their "day jobs." They are professionals and will do whatever it takes to get things done right.
alextound
09-11-2015, 21:12
And BTW, if, as your earlier post seems to indicate, you think that the NASA folks should be working over the weekend on this... Let's just say that getting me started on that will result in a very long post or PM, at the end of reading which you'll probably be feeling rather beaten up, and I'll be almost certainly feeling pretty lousy myself for writing and sending it. Suffice it to say that working weekends--on top of your normal work week--is something to be avoided if possible.
I'm not saying they should work on the weekend...just rephrase that they are "working diligently" over the weekend. Also I learned a long, long time ago to not write such strict deadlines if I know there's a possibility I can't hold up to them. I'd be happier if they wrote, "Sorry, we'll have the results early next week."
Mr.Frishman
09-11-2015, 21:20
"NASA will review submitted applications and inform teams of their selection via the NASA Robotics Alliance Project (RAP) web site (http://robotics.nasa.gov). It is our plan to announce selections no later than Friday, November 6, 2015, 23:59:59 (PST). Please note that this is our current best estimate for the announcement date. The date may have to change due to circumstances beyond our control. If this should happen, a revised estimate of the announcement date will be posted on the RAP web site as quickly as possible. "
Current Best Estimate. That should be all you need to know.
alextound
09-11-2015, 21:30
" If this should happen, a revised estimate of the announcement date will be posted on the RAP web site as quickly as possible. "
Current Best Estimate. That should be all you need to know.
I couldn't find the ...time change new estimate...can you please show me where it is posted...?
I'm not saying they should work on the weekend...just rephrase that they are "working diligently" over the weekend. Also I learned a long, long time ago to not write such strict deadlines if I know there's a possibility I can't hold up to them. I'd be happier if they wrote, "Sorry, we'll have the results early next week."
Fact of life: It happens ALL. THE. TIME. Even with diligent work. I could probably locate a bunch of articles about something getting delayed without even thinking about it. They write the deadlines, and they try to meet them. But maybe something* doesn't quite come through, so they have to figure out where to push or cut to either get it through or do without it. It happens. It doesn't mean they're not working diligently, it may just mean that you can't see them working diligently.
*Could be anything: Congressional budget crunch (and the ensuing government shutdown) stopped the grant process cold a couple years back. Could be that somebody didn't supply something quite right and they're waiting for it to be fixed (unlikely, as in this case that's virtually an automatic denial). Could be a key signatory to release funds has the email saying he needs to release them sitting in his inbox along with 1000 other emails that he hasn't gotten around to, and he's on vacation or dealing with a crisis elsewhere. It could be ANYTHING delaying, and most likely it's out of the control of the team that's working on the grants. Internal politicking comes to mind as a likely source of delay, but it certainly isn't the only one.
Mr.Frishman
09-11-2015, 21:39
That is probably a question for the people at NASA.
alextound
09-11-2015, 21:49
Fact of life: It happens ALL. THE. TIME. Even with diligent work. I could probably locate a bunch of articles about something getting delayed without even thinking about it. They write the deadlines, and they try to meet them. But maybe something* doesn't quite come through, so they have to figure out where to push or cut to either get it through or do without it. It happens. It doesn't mean they're not working diligently, it may just mean that you can't see them working diligently.
*Could be anything: Congressional budget crunch (and the ensuing government shutdown) stopped the grant process cold a couple years back. Could be that somebody didn't supply something quite right and they're waiting for it to be fixed (unlikely, as in this case that's virtually an automatic denial). Could be a key signatory to release funds has the email saying he needs to release them sitting in his inbox along with 1000 other emails that he hasn't gotten around to, and he's on vacation or dealing with a crisis elsewhere. It could be ANYTHING delaying, and most likely it's out of the control of the team that's working on the grants. Internal politicking comes to mind as a likely source of delay, but it certainly isn't the only one.
With all of the examples you gave...nothing speaks of working "diligently." While yes, I wholeheartedly agree, there can be tons and tons of great acceptable or even unacceptable reasons, but to say they are "working diligently" when they could've just said we'll have it next week would've been prefered.
Ryan Dognaux
09-11-2015, 21:55
With all of the examples you gave...nothing speaks of working "diligently." While yes, I wholeheartedly agree, there can be tons and tons of great acceptable or even unacceptable reasons, but to say they are "working diligently" when they could've just said we'll have it next week would've been prefered.
Do you have any clue what it takes to go through all of the submitted grant applications? Clearly not. I have been through a similar process in the past and let me tell you it is no easy task.
How about stop being an insufferable jerk and let the great people at NASA do the best they can? There are hundreds of teams that will exist solely because of them.
but to say they are "working diligently" when they could've just said we'll have it next week would've been prefered.
That means contacting the folks in charge of maintaining the website, who are probably (mostly) off for the weekend, and who almost certainly have a bunch of other requests for stuff to happen that's likely considered more urgent (like uploading the latest pictures from DSCOVR's camera to the EPIC site--a bit of a stretch, but I think you get the point). So that's another thing for them to do instead of working diligently on the problem.
alextound
09-11-2015, 22:01
FINALLY!!!!
http://robotics.nasa.gov/events/2016_sponsorship.php
Congrats to all the teams!!
With all of the examples you gave...nothing speaks of working "diligently." While yes, I wholeheartedly agree, there can be tons and tons of great acceptable or even unacceptable reasons, but to say they are "working diligently" when they could've just said we'll have it next week would've been prefered.
As someone who was previously a reviewer for the NASA grants I can tell you that there is not a group of people sitting there reading grants 8 hours a day. The system relies on employees (and some volunteers) reading grants on top of doing their normal jobs. It is a very time consuming process. Each grant also has to be reviewed 3x. You do the math on the total number of "reads" that requires.
Some people were faster than others, but I found that it took me close to an hour to read each grant application and take notes (and then go back and rate each one after I'd read enough that I felt like I had a good basis to compare them against each other). I had to spend a ton of time at home or staying at work late to work on them as well, which I know others did too, so it's no surprise to me that the announcement date has been pushed back on occasion.
After all the reviews are done they have to be further sorted to determine who actually gets awarded a grant.
There's not necessarily a way to come out and say "we will have it done next week", when there's all sorts of intermediate steps that have to take place.
alextound
09-11-2015, 22:07
As someone who was previously a reviewer for the NASA grants I can tell you that there is not a group of people sitting there reading grants 8 hours a day. The system relies on employees (and some volunteers) reading grants on top of doing their normal jobs. It is a very time consuming process. Each grant also has to be reviewed 3x. You do the math on the total number of "reads" that requires.
Some people were faster than others, but I found that it took me close to an hour to read each grant application and take notes (and then go back and rate each one after I'd read enough that I felt like I had a good basis to compare them against each other). I had to spend a ton of time at home or staying at work late to work on them as well, which I know others did too, so it's no surprise to me that the announcement date has been pushed back on occasion.
After all the reviews are done they have to be further sorted to determine who actually gets awarded a grant.
There's not necessarily a way to come out and say "we will have it done next week", when there's all sorts of intermediate steps that have to take place.
Thanks for the clarity, I never thought it was easy or even possible given how much that needs to go into it. My only thought and sorry for being "insufferable" is that they put a date with a time and said if not then they'll have an updated time. Why would they put thousands of people at their computers probably clicking refresh every 5 minutes, when according to you probably knew it wasn't going to be "finalize[d]" within a quick turnaround of time.
BTW: Thanks for your work with NASA.
P.S.S. While you're here can you give a few tips, or points of interest they really look for with the grant. i.e. Team with all ducks in a row, or new team with great imagination and ambition, previous robotics vs trying to start new program, etc.
Anyone know why the regional grants for Tech Valley Regional are not listed? Or were none given. Congrats to everyone who earned one
z_beeblebrox
09-11-2015, 22:22
Anyone know why the regional grants for Tech Valley Regional are not listed? Or were none given. Congrats to everyone who earned one
As far as I can tell, the grants have not yet been released and alextound's link leads to a 404 error.
alextound
09-11-2015, 22:24
Try switching 2016 to 2015, forgot what year it is
I_AM_Clayton
09-11-2015, 22:25
As far as I can tell, the grants have not yet been released and alextound's link leads to a 404 error.
It won't work for me either.
Try switching 2016 to 2015, forgot what year it is
2015 points to last year's sponsored teams. 2016 404s for me.
FINALLY!!!!
http://robotics.nasa.gov/events/2016_sponsorship.php
Congrats to all the teams!!
Try switching 2016 to 2015, forgot what year it is
I believe those are last year's grants.
Im an idiot I was looking at 2015.
Try switching 2016 to 2015, forgot what year it is
Grants for the 2015 season would be for last year (a.k.a. the FRC 2015 season). The upcoming season is the 2016 season
EDIT: I was sniped
I believe those are last year's grants.
They are last year's grants.
Anyone else continually refreshing the page?
alextound
09-11-2015, 22:35
Any one know when the FIRST grants are scheduled to be released?
alextound
09-11-2015, 23:23
NOvember 13
Munchskull
09-11-2015, 23:26
NOvember 13
Think we may have found a troll.*
*Auto correct hates me.
Think we may have found a toll.
A toll?
;)
A toll?
;)
Taking a toll on sanity and patience, methinks.
To actually answer the question:
The NASA Grant announcement will come when it comes.
matthewdenny
10-11-2015, 09:45
I think I'm wearing out the F5 (refresh) key on my laptop. :]
alextound
10-11-2015, 16:03
Seriously ANY TIME NOW
Nate Laverdure
10-11-2015, 16:05
Seriously ANY TIME NOW
There were done a few minutes ago, but now they have to go back and defund all Iowa teams.
alextound
10-11-2015, 16:36
Anyone want to take a guess at when...I'm thinking Thursday 3:30 EST.
GaryVoshol
10-11-2015, 17:00
*Could be anything: Congressional budget crunch (and the ensuing government shutdown) stopped the grant process cold a couple years back. Could be that somebody didn't supply something quite right and they're waiting for it to be fixed (unlikely, as in this case that's virtually an automatic denial). Could be a key signatory to release funds has the email saying he needs to release them sitting in his inbox along with 1000 other emails that he hasn't gotten around to, and he's on vacation or dealing with a crisis elsewhere. It could be ANYTHING delaying, and most likely it's out of the control of the team that's working on the grants. Internal politicking comes to mind as a likely source of delay, but it certainly isn't the only one.
Maybe they're waiting to see who complains the most on CD to create their "Not in my lifetime" list. ;)
alextound
10-11-2015, 17:53
Good thing I'm not the submitter and not listing my team!!! I feel bad for them other guys :ahh:
Travis Hoffman
10-11-2015, 18:02
Anyone want to take a guess at when...I'm thinking Thursday 3:30 EST.
A semi-legitimate question. Last year, they announced on November 13th. 11/13 would be this Friday. Friday the 13th. :eek:
Veterans Day is tomorrow, so if nothing is announced today, I would think the announcement would be delayed until Thursday at the earliest.
But as others have already explained, there's really there's just no way of knowing when, given all the variables involved.
Perhaps they are waiting to announce at 12:01 AM on 11/14....World Simbotics Day.
Andrew Schreiber
10-11-2015, 19:34
Anyone want to take a guess at when...I'm thinking Thursday 3:30 EST.
Shortly prior to you stopping complaining about it. So, the sooner you stop the sooner it'll be.
Good thing I'm not the submitter and not listing my team!!! I feel bad for them other guys :ahh:
There are only so many teams from Iowa, you know. And I would guess that probably not all of them submitted (not sure why that would be the case, but it could happen). It might be easier than you think to figure out which team you're from.
I do hope that you're aware that one of the requirements accompanying the grant is usually to write a thank-you message...
alextound
11-11-2015, 00:13
Thanks for the info, don't think they'll actually hurt my team chances by complaining here. But honestly I feel like the percentage of getting a grant is optimistically as high as 5-8%, teams probably just want to know either way already even if not getting it. My mentality switched from wanting the money to just wanting to know for sure.
Also my only real complaint was that they wrote they are diligently working to finalize it, which is not the case at all times that message has been up.
Michael Hill
11-11-2015, 00:18
Also my only real complaint was that they wrote they are diligently working to finalize it, which is not the case at all times that message has been up.
What do you want them to do? Put it up during the work day while they're physically reading through applications and take it down at the end? Come on, get real.
AdamHeard
11-11-2015, 00:45
Thanks for the info, don't think they'll actually hurt my team chances by complaining here. But honestly I feel like the percentage of getting a grant is optimistically as high as 5-8%, teams probably just want to know either way already even if not getting it. My mentality switched from wanting the money to just wanting to know for sure.
Also my only real complaint was that they wrote they are diligently working to finalize it, which is not the case at all times that message has been up.
Just stop already. They're giving out free money.
Thanks for the info, don't think they'll actually hurt my team chances by complaining here. But honestly I feel like the percentage of getting a grant is optimistically as high as 5-8%, teams probably just want to know either way already even if not getting it. My mentality switched from wanting the money to just wanting to know for sure.
Also my only real complaint was that they wrote they are diligently working to finalize it, which is not the case at all times that message has been up.
Yeah, it kinda does though. Your team will not be thanking you for your behavior in the primary FRC network community, whether NASA has already made their decision or not. NASA people read and contribute here, you know.
Like many fellow posters in this thread I am thankful for any NASA effort to assist teams and willing to 'diligently' extend them the courtesy of patiently waiting to see their selections. They deserve our understanding and genuine appreciation for all they do for our community...not a persistent and unwarranted argument about their level of 'diligence'. Enough already.
alextound
11-11-2015, 06:42
They should just put," it is delayed"
Ryan Dognaux
11-11-2015, 09:41
This guy is a troll and is purposely hiding his team affiliation. Can we ban him? :confused:
sanddrag
11-11-2015, 13:39
While I know many teams are anxiously awaiting the results, I personally know some of the past reviewers and I know that a lot of time, thought, and care goes into reading each application. It's not an easy process. Delays happen, but patience is a virtue. Good luck to all the teams who applied, and thank you NASA for supporting FIRST for so many years!
sciencenuetzel
11-11-2015, 15:09
This guy is a troll and is purposely hiding his team affiliation. Can we ban him? :confused:
+1
Munchskull
11-11-2015, 15:17
I can only imagine how difficult it is to decide. Every single application has a story behind it. Weather it is a new team just starting up or an old team who has fallen on rough times. When they make the final choices they have to know that it is the right choices. I would rather that they spend the time needed instead of hurrying and making poor choices. I have a lot of respect for those making the choices.
Monochron
11-11-2015, 15:35
they wrote they are diligently working to finalize it, which is not the case at all times that message has been up.
"Other people need to work harder to give me what I want."
Chris is me
11-11-2015, 17:04
Dude, they're giving hundreds of teams $5,000, how could that possibly be a thing to complain about? They're taking slightly too long to give you a massive amount of money?
The thing that fazes me the most about your attitude is that you don't seem to care at all that you're being really, really rude to people that are, again, giving out $5,000 to hundreds of teams. You don't seem to care because you think it won't come back to haunt your team, this particular grant cycle. Your priorities aren't in being nice to people giving out tons of money to help you, but in not being caught being rude to those people.
If you must think about this from a purely utilitarian, how-can-this-help-me attitude instead of a simple issue of respecting generous organizations, then think of it this way. Hundreds of teams rely on these grants to get through their seasons. If the powers that be at NASA see the FIRST community as a bunch of ungrateful, immature jerks who constantly complain about not being instantly handed a lot of money, they will probably be less willing to give out more money in the future. Why potentially ruin it for your team and others in future years?
robochick1319
11-11-2015, 17:34
I agree that being polite and patient is definitely the way to go in this situation BUT I can understand how teams applying for funds can be anxious about waiting for this announcement.
If funding is the primary determining factor on when/where/if you compete for 2016, the sooner you have it secured the better. Some regional events are in locations where hotels are difficult to come by and so far away from our home towns that securing transportation in the fall is essential for spring travel.
I feel for the teams applying for funding who don't have the answer yet because planning in the fall is sooo important for a successful 2016 season. It is a shame that the only answer you have is TBA soon but it is what it is so try focus on other things.
A watched pot never boils or something like that....
PayneTrain
11-11-2015, 19:38
If the mods aren't too busy can they please erase:
a) this thread
b) my memory of it
s_forbes
11-11-2015, 19:57
I think it's a little funny how some of the folks in this thread that are shutting down the complaints have consistently complained about things that FIRST does. Never change, CD!
It is getting pretty late in the season to know whether or not you have the funds to cover the cost of events/parts/travel. That's a frustrating position to be in. Try being more helpful and empathizing a little instead of yelling at someone you don't agree with on the internet.
It is getting pretty late in the season to know whether or not you have the funds to cover the cost events/parts/travel. That's a frustrating position to be in. Try being more helpful and empathizing a little instead of yelling at someone you don't agree with on the internet.
Which is completely reasonable, but there's a difference between constructive criticism of the process and blatant disrespect.
Andrew Schreiber
11-11-2015, 20:04
I think it's a little funny how some of the folks in this thread that are shutting down the complaints have consistently complained about things that FIRST does. Never change, CD!
It is getting pretty late in the season to know whether or not you have the funds to cover the cost of events/parts/travel. That's a frustrating position to be in. Try being more helpful and empathizing a little instead of yelling at someone you don't agree with on the internet.
As paying "customers" of FIRST - complaining makes sense.
As someone hoping for a handout for a company - insinuating that the people handing out MILLIONS of dollars are lazy and not doing their job[1]? Yeah, that's just being a prick.
[1] Or more accurately, something outside their job that they are likely not even getting paid for (or getting paid only a small percentage of the time it takes)
AdamHeard
11-11-2015, 20:06
I think it's a little funny how some of the folks in this thread that are shutting down the complaints have consistently complained about things that FIRST does. Never change, CD!
It is getting pretty late in the season to know whether or not you have the funds to cover the cost of events/parts/travel. That's a frustrating position to be in. Try being more helpful and empathizing a little instead of yelling at someone you don't agree with on the internet.
Considering we pay FIRST a giant stack of cash every year, complaining is valid.
This is a completely different situation.
$5k is nothing to fundraise as well, if your season depends on the NASA grant entirely then you need to evaluate your business plan.
alextound
11-11-2015, 20:10
As chief complainer of this thread...I disagree with complaining in general form of FIRST (and NASA) as they do a really great job and considering the cost of $5,000, it really isnt too much given KoP and venues and other things they allow for. But for all of the complainers (and myself) I think (at least for me) an updated message would more than suffice to quench our complaints. We all obviously love NASA and everything they do and to think anyone is saying otherwise isn't really paying attention to the issue. Also the grant money is a HUGE deal for almost any team, except for the elite top 10% who may have enough sponsors in other places.
Mark Sheridan
11-11-2015, 20:13
Don't feed the troll....
PayneTrain
11-11-2015, 20:24
As paying "customers" of FIRST - complaining makes sense.
As someone hoping for a handout for a company - insinuating that the people handing out MILLIONS of dollars are lazy and not doing their job[1]? Yeah, that's just being a prick.
[1] Or more accurately, something outside their job that they are likely not even getting paid for (or getting paid only a small percentage of the time it takes)
Not even a company--a government agency that many in FIRST and other sectors would say is one of the most critical forces in moving our nation and the world forward as it has since its founding!
It is getting pretty late in the season to know whether or not you have the funds to cover the cost of events/parts/travel. That's a frustrating position to be in. Try being more helpful and empathizing a little instead of yelling at someone you don't agree with on the internet.
I feel terrible for all the people who have to wait 3 more days to find out whether they can compete or not this year, by receiving $5,000 in FREE money!
/Sarcasm
alextound
11-11-2015, 20:43
I feel terrible for all the people who have to wait 3 more days to find out whether they can compete or not this year, by receiving $5,000 in FREE money!
/Sarcasm
Its going on 5 and if they were to say, "Hey, it'll be a week" I'd be happier, and while its not a big difference between free money and grant money, it still changes a lot for a lot of teams. Another side of this argument is that the future employees of NASA along with FIRST just expects more. . .
ChuckDickerson
11-11-2015, 21:01
I continue to read this thread in amazement at the since of entitlement some people have. Give it to me and give it to me now seems to be all too common in this country these days.
Its going on 5 and if they were to say, "Hey, it'll be a week" I'd be happier, and while its not a big difference between free money and grant money, it still changes a lot for a lot of teams. Another side of this argument is that the future employees of NASA along with FIRST just expects more. . .
NASA has better things to do than update a website with a different message in order to satisfy readers. (In case you didn't know, they've sent people to space and are trying to explore the farthest reaches of the universe.)
Like what many others have stated before, no one has a right to complain to such a great organization who is basically offering thousands of dollars to teams. They don't have to give away all this money, but, again, they are offering it because they are encouraging students to get into STEM education. So, please, be thankful that NASA has provided this opportunity for FRC teams this year.
I feel terrible for all the people who have to wait 3 more days to find out whether they can compete or not this year, by receiving $5,000 in FREE money!
/Sarcasm
I've been annoyed by this thread for days, but this is the first time I have been offended a bit. Not every community has the support that you might have in California. We have made the payment deadline every year by days at most and by hours at the least. Every year is a challenge and every year is hard work. We make it, but $5k is a season changing amount for us when our budget is typically user $10k. Also, when your state starts to grow FRC at a rate that can shake the most steady hand, sponsors start to run a bit thin.
The kids who work hard for days on the application might also take offense to the "free money" comment too. After all, time is money. The fact that it is a 16 year old students time doesn't change that.
I guess I hope you do feel terrible for teams who rely on funding like this, because there really isn't time for much else now.
s_forbes
11-11-2015, 21:12
Considering we pay FIRST a giant stack of cash every year, complaining is valid.
(...)
$5k is nothing to fundraise as well (...)
The KOP and first event registration is about $5k. Is that 'a giant stack of cash' or 'nothing to fundraise'? 46% of FIRST teams only attended 1 event last year. $5k can make or break a team.
I agree that teams should work to have more funds than that, but for those that can't manage to do so, waiting to hear on grant money is a really big deal.
I've been annoyed by this thread for days, but this is the first time I have been offended a bit. Not every community has the support that you might have in California. We have made the payment deadline every year by days at most and by hours at the least. Every year is a challenge and every year is hard work. We make it, but $5k is a season changing amount for us when our budget is typically user $10k. Also, when your state starts to grow FRC at a rate that can shake the most steady hand, sponsors start to run a bit thin.
The kids who work hard for days on the application might also take offense to the "free money" comment too. After all, time is money. The fact that it is a 16 year old students time doesn't change that.
I guess I hope you do feel terrible for teams who rely on funding like this, because there really isn't time for much else now.
I feel for anyone who is in a scenario where this grant could make or break their season.
I don't feel any compassion for someone who has to go on the internet and be a giant tool about FIRST's largest and most committed sponor taking "too long" to decide whether or not to give them free money. That's just absurd. This isn't life or death. Waiting 3-5 days won't kill them.
As chief complainer of this thread[...] But for all of the complainers (and myself) I think (at least for me) an updated message would more than suffice to quench our complaints. Just for your reference: You're the only one complaining publicly. (Or maybe I should put it another way: whining publicly.) Yes, there are others commenting on the lateness. But it's more on the order of, "Guess we have to wait a bit more" instead of "Why don't we have an update yet? Huh? Huh? Huh? Why not? Huh? Huh? Huh? Why don't they update the website? Huh? Huh? Huh? When's the info coming? Huh? Huh? Huh?"
Also the grant money is a HUGE deal for almost any team, except for the elite top 10% who may have enough sponsors in other places.That's a whole 'nother debate. I don't know of a SINGLE team that would turn down a NASA Grant they were eligible for, applied for, and were awarded. Now, it might not be as big a deal for some teams, true, but for most if not all, $5K in a lump sum isn't bad at all.
The "elite top 10%" part of that statement is, however, making a large assumption about those teams, and other teams. My team isn't elite by any stretch of the imagination, ours included, but we get by just fine without having had a NASA Grant in quite some time (not that we'd EVER pass up the opportunity if we thought we were eligible)--see "constantly coming up with new ways to raise money". I would also guess that some teams you might consider "elite" have a much smaller budget (relative to their expenses) than you might think.
AdamHeard
11-11-2015, 21:39
The KOP and first event registration is about $5k. Is that 'a giant stack of cash' or 'nothing to fundraise'? 46% of FIRST teams only attended 1 event last year. $5k can make or break a team.
I agree that teams should work to have more funds than that, but for those that can't manage to do so, waiting to hear on grant money is a really big deal.
We generally pay $14k, which is a giant stack of cash.
$5k is a decent stack of cash, and is nothing to fundraise for a motivated group with months to do it in.
I fail to see how any of this means it's hypocritical to criticize someone for complaining about free money while also criticizing an organization we pay a good deal to.
alextound
11-11-2015, 21:52
Just for your reference: You're the only one complaining publicly. (Or maybe I should put it another way: whining publicly.) Yes, there are others commenting on the lateness. But it's more on the order of, "Guess we have to wait a bit more" instead of "Why don't we have an update yet? Huh? Huh? Huh? Why not? Huh? Huh? Huh? Why don't they update the website? Huh? Huh? Huh? When's the info coming? Huh? Huh? Huh?"
Unfortunately for this thread, that was all of the times I had to clarify my position, which I guess I'll do again... I'm not mad that NASA is taking long, or about anything they do, they are an amazing organization, but yet again, I (and I'm sure others) took their update message too literal, along with the accuracy of their procedure for detailing when the grant would be available along with them offering a new time frame if needed. I'm glad there are people here to at least somewhat agree with that, yes, it is not some sort of minute detail that it is not updated, entire teams (1,000s and 1,000s) of people have probably checked this update page, that much publicity is 1. not great for NASA 2. Somewhat frustrating for EVERYone 3. If they have time to read this complaint, I'm sure someone can be like hey, make Alex happy and put "We're going to be giving this out as soon as possible." or "there are issues holding us up right now, sorry for the inconvenience, or since all of you haters gonna hate we're gonna pass on first and try our luck with the other robotics options. . . just to clarify a point I already made, I already switched from wanting the grant money to I just want to know already and make a plan of action with or without it....January is getting pretty close.
Alex, the issue is not so much the content of your posts, but the tone. Come back to this thread in a couple of months and maybe you'll see it.
alextound
11-11-2015, 22:30
Alex, the issue is not so much the content of your posts, but the tone. Come back to this thread in a couple of months and maybe you'll see it.
Thank you, I think my tone was getting worse as I felt people were completely missing my point, but with you saying it's not the content, I feel better more at ease.
Andrew Schreiber
12-11-2015, 08:20
We generally pay $14k, which is a giant stack of cash.
$5k is a decent stack of cash, and is nothing to fundraise for a motivated group with months to do it in.
I fail to see how any of this means it's hypocritical to criticize someone for complaining about free money while also criticizing an organization we pay a good deal to.
Plus, and it's been a while since I applied for a NASA grant, isn't one of the criteria for sustaining grants to demonstrate that you have plans for not being reliant on the NASA grants?
Plus, and it's been a while since I applied for a NASA grant, isn't one of the criteria for sustaining grants to demonstrate that you have plans for not being reliant on the NASA grants?
I'm not sure about sustaining grants, but for program growth grants (mainly for rookie and second-year teams) NASA states that "if you are applying for a second year of funding you must also demonstrate at least $5,000 in existing school, community or corporate sponsorship."
Lil' Lavery
12-11-2015, 17:50
$5k is a decent stack of cash, and is nothing to fundraise for a motivated group with months to do it in.
Where you're located? Okay, I'll accept your word for it.
In certain other areas, it might not be. There are plenty of teams that don't have the abundance of local businesses and resources in the area. Be careful not to assume your situation applies to all other teams.
Trying to Help
12-11-2015, 22:06
Where you're located? Okay, I'll accept your word for it.
In certain other areas, it might not be. There are plenty of teams that don't have the abundance of local businesses and resources in the area. Be careful not to assume your situation applies to all other teams.
Thanks for bringing that up! I've talked with lots of other mentors about raising money and we know how to do it. But we're not in a population dense area. The school district that gives us space to build in has a high school of about 400 students, for two towns. Last year, there was concern that if the school budget amendments were passed and a lower budget was set, they'd have to close the middle school. Not *a* middle school, but *the* middle school. Students attending that school would have to be absorbed into the elementary schools? The high school? Unclear. But it was a concern. That's how worried people are in the community about how much everything is costing them.
We can't charge dues because if we do, we have to pay (per use) for our build space at the middle school. Those are just the rules that they've set down; it has nothing to do with robotics.
I'm just giving these examples of the constraints that we face that other teams might not.
And I'm glad that NASA is willing to put the time into doing this! I'm sure it takes a ton of time to evaluate every application.
Travis Hoffman
13-11-2015, 18:01
Based on this post (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1505073&postcount=7) in the FIRST Grant thread, unless the NASA folks are planning on burning the midnight oil tonight, it looks like the NASA announcement will be delayed until early next week, at the earliest. My understanding from another post in that thread is that FIRST waits for NASA announcements before assigning their own rookie grants. Those with more knowledge of the process feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
SciBorg Dave
16-11-2015, 14:12
The KOP and first event registration is about $5k. Is that 'a giant stack of cash' or 'nothing to fundraise'? 46% of FIRST teams only attended 1 event last year. $5k can make or break a team.
I agree that teams should work to have more funds than that, but for those that can't manage to do so, waiting to hear on grant money is a really big deal.
District events are nice because you get 2 districts for the price of 1 regional. This year in PNW districts if you make the cut as one of the top 64 teams in the Northwest you get your 2 districts and PNW championship for one price. Great deal.
So who is covering the $4000 a team to FIRST for the PNW championship? I am sure that FIRST isn't just forgetting about the $256K in registration fees owed to them for that event. Is PNW getting sponsors to cover the entire amount of registration AND the cost of the entire event?
The PNW group released full details on their model here:
http://www.firstwa.org/Programs/FIRSTRoboticsCompetition/PaymentDetails/FRCFunding.aspx
Here's the subsequent discussion that took place on these forums: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138007
matthewdenny
17-11-2015, 16:58
So it is looking like tomorrow is the big day for both grants! Fingers crossed, and good luck to everyone that applied.
ghoststorm11
18-11-2015, 09:23
So it is looking like tomorrow is the big day for both grants! Fingers crossed, and good luck to everyone that applied.
i hope you are correct.
Travis Hoffman
18-11-2015, 17:35
FYI, it looks like FIRST grant announcement is delayed until Friday, per this post (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1506199&postcount=24) in the FIRST grant thread.
scottandme
20-11-2015, 16:09
Nothing on the website yet, but I just received an email notification from the FRC Finance Team that we received a NASA Program Growth Grant. They might be releasing results gradually.
Thanks NASA!
Nothing on the website yet, but I just received an email notification from the FRC Finance Team that we received a NASA Program Growth Grant. They might be releasing results gradually.
Thanks NASA!
Also received this email. Thank you NASA for your amazing support!
Nothing on the website yet, but I just received an email notification from the FRC Finance Team that we received a NASA Program Growth Grant. They might be releasing results gradually.
Thanks NASA!
Team 5458 received this email as well. We truly appreciate NASA for giving us this grant! Congratulations to all NASA grant recipients.
M. Mellott
20-11-2015, 16:46
Team 3193 also got word from FIRST that a payment from NASA had been received, which would have been a Sustaining Grant. Thank you so much, NASA, and congratulations to all other recipients!
Received the email at 3:43pm for those wanting to know.
ghoststorm11
20-11-2015, 16:59
Sad. Doesnt look like we got it. :(
kevin.li.rit
20-11-2015, 18:46
Who do th ey send the email to? The main contact or the submitter? Do they send out rejection emails too?
I recieved the email from FIRST rather than from NASA, so I would assume that it went out to your team's main/alternate contact.
The email is a confirmation of payment received, so you wouldn't be getting a "payment not received" email.
kevin.li.rit
20-11-2015, 19:00
I'm the teams alternate contact. We received a grant later year but it didnt receive an email last year. I'm more anxious this year since money is tighter this year. I'm found out last year through one of the email newsletters
Travis Hoffman
20-11-2015, 19:52
I'm curious - has anyone received notice of receipt of a Regional Challenge grant for Tech Valley?
Trying to Help
20-11-2015, 19:55
Thank you, thank you, thank you NASA!
Receiving this grant means so much! We will now have cash to buy parts, pay postage, etc. When other mentors have talked to me about money being tight, I've had complete empathy. This grant means that we can have a robotics program this year.
Thank you *so* much!
- From all of us at Team 1729
I'm curious - has anyone received notice of receipt of a Regional Challenge grant for Tech Valley?
We have not yet, I may need to apply some of the grant to my phone bill with all the data im burning through on my phone hitting refresh. Good luck Travis would be great to have you guys at Tech Valley
Travis Hoffman
20-11-2015, 20:01
We have not yet, I may need to apply some of the grant to the data im burning through on my phone hitting refresh. Good luck Travis would be great to have you guys at Tech Valley
Thank you, and same to you. We would like very much to attend.
Team3844
20-11-2015, 20:02
We have not yet, I may need to apply some of the grant to my phone bill with all the data im burning through on my phone hitting refresh. Good luck Travis would be great to have you guys at Tech Valley
We also applied for a challenge grant for Tech Valley
matthewdenny
20-11-2015, 20:20
The grant that people have recieved is this the $6000/5000 grant from NASA, or the $4000 grant from First?
koreamaniac101
20-11-2015, 20:24
I believe it's the $6000/5000 grant from NASA that everybody's talking about. I know that our rookie team was awarded the NASA Grant today!!!
The grant that people have recieved is this the $6000/5000 grant from NASA, or the $4000 grant from First?
We're recieving the grant from NASA, but recieving email confirmation of it from FIRST, in the form on a message stating that payment for our events has been recieved from NASA.
Abrakadabra
20-11-2015, 21:25
No email from FIRST yet, but TIMS is reporting that we are now fully paid up ... due to a grant from NASA!
Woo-hoo! Thank you NASA!
tl;dr; Even if you haven't heard anything yet, have one of your contacts check TIMS!
Coach Seb
20-11-2015, 22:15
Congrats to all team that received a grant today !!!
We show that we received the grant from First for $4000 !!!!
Any chances that a team received both NASA and Argosys grant ? not being greedy, just curious if they worked together or they are 2 separate grant.
matthewdenny
20-11-2015, 23:19
We are reporting a 4000 payment from "rookie grant" restricted. Does this mean we were awarded the FRC grant? I assume this means we did not get the NASA grant?
Zac Schofield
21-11-2015, 10:28
I'm curious - has anyone received notice of receipt of a Regional Challenge grant for Tech Valley?
Our team applied but we've heard nothing yet
Team3844
21-11-2015, 12:31
Award link is posted http://robotics.nasa.gov/
thatprogrammer
21-11-2015, 12:32
The website just got updated saying the winners have been selected. ATM the list is not loading for me.
Team3844
21-11-2015, 12:35
The website just got updated saying the winners have been selected. ATM the list is not loading for me.
Not opening here either
Masterchi45
21-11-2015, 13:39
How do I know??????? I click on the link, but it keeps me on the same page. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!
thatprogrammer
21-11-2015, 13:56
How do I know??????? I click on the link, but it keeps me on the same page. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!
Having the same issue. Don't worry, it should (hopefully) be fixed soon.
Sperkowsky
21-11-2015, 14:09
I thought the principal letters had to be submitted before it said if we got it or not so I assumed since we never asked our principal that we had no chance. Now I'm interested.
matthewdenny
21-11-2015, 14:27
The link is up and working now. Congrats to all the winners.
So no tech valley grants?
thatprogrammer
21-11-2015, 14:28
Unfortunately my tear didn't get it. Congrats to the winners!
Karen Kelley
21-11-2015, 14:28
I can't see the NASA list and don't see any deposits for Team 3319 in TIMS- does this mean for sure we didn't get one? We applied for a Rookie Regional grant for Rocket City... KK
Sperkowsky
21-11-2015, 14:35
So no tech valley grants?
I guess not the page loaded I got excited then I was disappointed our team wasn't there then I realized there was no tech valley tab. I also noticed there was only 1 ny team on the list.
SciBorg Dave
21-11-2015, 14:55
Thank you NASA from rookie team 5920 the VIKotics. This will help a lot, we are a small high school (82) in a small town (1040) with limited fund raising opportunities. This will give us the ability to compete in 2016 while we build funding partners for the future. The key word the VIKotics use is "confidence".
This will be one piece of the puzzle of building confidence for sustaining the team in future years. VIKotic/SciBorg Dave
Travis Hoffman
21-11-2015, 17:23
This seems like a strange situation, especially with the limited number (1) of NY teams receiving NASA recognition of any kind (I wonder how many NY teams received the "FIRST" grants?).
Is there a prior example of NASA offering in the original application "up to 10" veteran Regional Challenge grants for a regional and then ultimately deciding to award none? We certainly know there was no dearth of applicants.
Finally, 196 NASA grants were awarded last year (http://robotics.nasa.gov/events/2015_sponsorship.php). This year, according to the posting (http://robotics.nasa.gov/events/2016_sponsorship.php), 113. Obviously a big difference. Wonder the reason(s) - more FIRST grants awarded this year? Less available money to distribute? Or are some grants still in limbo?
What an unusual string of events this year. :)
This seems like a strange situation, especially with the limited number (1) of NY teams receiving NASA recognition of any kind (I wonder how many NY teams received the "FIRST" grants?).
Is there a prior example of NASA offering in the original application "up to 10" veteran Regional Challenge grants for a regional and then ultimately deciding to award none? We certainly know there was no dearth of applicants.
Finally, 196 NASA grants were awarded last year (http://robotics.nasa.gov/events/2015_sponsorship.php). This year, according to the posting (http://robotics.nasa.gov/events/2016_sponsorship.php), 113. Obviously a big difference. Wonder the reason(s) - more FIRST grants awarded this year? Less available money to distribute? Or are some grants still in limbo?
What an unusual string of events this year. :)
I agree, I had small hopes that we would get the grant but I figured bc of the grant it would allow some more diverse non NY teams to attend the regional. It sounds horrible to question NASA on this after they just gave 106 teams a great deal of money, but why advertise giving grants for a regional and then given none.
My only guess is they thought the registartion for the regional would be low and the grant would be needed to bring teams in. After registration it was determined it was not needed and this no one recieved the money.
Or the troll whos been lurking the last few weeks in this thread was applying for same grant and NASA figured it should punish everyone 😉
kyle_hamblett
22-11-2015, 17:54
So do they only do one "Regional Challenge"? In this case, it looks like the Alabama regional is the only one listed... Did they leave Tech Valley off entirely, or is that one still in the works?
Travis Hoffman
23-11-2015, 09:42
So do they only do one "Regional Challenge"? In this case, it looks like the Alabama regional is the only one listed... Did they leave Tech Valley off entirely, or is that one still in the works?
For what it's worth, I sent an email to the NASA grant address asking for clarification on Tech Valley, but they are not really known for going into detail on the particulars of their process. Provided they are indeed awarding zero grants for TV, I did ask them to modify their grant application language to indicate "0 to 10" grants would be awarded for each Regional Challenge location in the future. That would make it crystal clear to applicants that the possibility of a complete shutout for a particular event exists, at NASA'S discretion.
Sperkowsky
23-11-2015, 10:19
For what it's worth, I sent an email to the NASA grant address asking for clarification on Tech Valley, but they are not really known for going into detail on the particulars of their process. Provided they are indeed awarding zero grants for TV, I did ask them to modify their grant application language to indicate "0 to 10" grants would be awarded for each Regional Challenge location in the future. That would make it crystal clear to applicants that the possibility of a complete shutout for a particular event exists, at NASA'S discretion.
I emailed them also a couple of days ago. No reply yet. I'm not mad at them but I wish I didn't waste my time applying if there was no chance to get it.
Munchskull
23-11-2015, 12:16
I am suprised that there was such a large cut to the number of teams that got grants compared to the previous year. Makes me appreciate the fact that my team got a grant even more, going to work hard to make NASA proud! Just hoping that no team goes under due to not getting the grant.
Travis Hoffman
23-11-2015, 18:22
I agree, I had small hopes that we would get the grant but I figured bc of the grant it would allow some more diverse non NY teams to attend the regional.
Your statement brings up bait and switch scenarios I don't even want to think about, so I won't.
Hey guess what - we're still attending. While I think it would still be possible to attend our home regional of Buckeye with some RD conversations (same weekend as Tech Valley), with all the delays in grant announcement, we are committed logistically to attending Tech Valley now, grant or no grant.
We weren't applying for the grant on a whim - we were hit with a serious ($15,000 serious) unexpected sponsorship funding cut in September, and a veteran NASA grant would have helped in the short term as we work to recover lost support - that certainly added to the attractiveness of the event. Oh well. It's a cozy event from what I hear and should be fun, even if it's costing us more to go to this regional than Cleveland.
perSEVERE 5962
06-01-2016, 05:43
For the teams who did receive a NASA grant this year, have you received any communication or materials from NASA yet?
I ask because our rookie team this year started as a school based team, and at the end of October, they told us that they could not support FRC at the school. So we changed to be an independent regional team, with the local university (UMASS Lowell) hosting us in their makerspace.
Before the grants were announced, I emailed NASA twice, and also asked FIRST to contact them directly with regard to our team status change, which they did.
When the grants were announced we were recipients. However, they still had the old school name listed.
So I sent email twice again and also asked FIRST to contact them again to ensure that they updated our name, address, and other team info.
I have not had any response back from NASA at all for any of my communications.
I am concerned that if they mail/ship any materials that they will have the school name (which no longer applies) on them and will be sent to the school address, and we will never receive them.
Thanks
Mike
kevin.li.rit
06-01-2016, 11:03
All this should be fixed in TIMs, you'll need the lead or alternate mentor/contact to correct/update this info. If they are no longer with the team you should have them invite a replacement through TIMs.
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