VEXpro 2016

[Grant Cox]

http://content.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/images/new-for-2016-banner-850px.png

We are thrilled to announce the latest batch of new products from VEXpro, ready to go for the 2016 FRC season!


VersaPlanetary Integrated Encoder (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/motors-electronics/217-5046.html) - Seamlessly combining the powerful CTR Electronics SRX Magnetic Encoder with the "most Versa" gearbox in FIRST
775pro (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/motors-electronics/217-4347.html) - West Coast Products changes the rules of the game. CIM power in a 775 form-factor. You're welcome.
VersaDrop (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/all/217-4824.html) - Making articulated "butterfly" or "octocanum" drivetrains available to all
Plastic VersaFrame Stock (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/versaframe/versaframestock.html) - Taking "lightweight mechanism design" to another level
3.25" Omni-Directional Wheel (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/motion/wheels-and-hubs/omni-wheels.html) - Because let's be frank, small is the new cool


But wait, there's more..! In addition to these new products, we are also launching some exciting new sections to our website.

Motors.VEX.com (http://motors.vex.com) - VEX Robotics DC Motor Testing

DC motor selection is an essential part of robot and mechanism design, but the sea of specifications and options available can sometimes be confusing. To help aid budding robot designers in understanding this relationship, VEX has developed an educational guide (http://motors.vex.com/introduction) that explains the four key characteristics of DC motors and how they can be used to select the ideal motor for your application.

Furthermore, to ensure that users have the data needed to make such an educated selection, VEX has tested seven popular motors (including the new 775pro) using industry-standard methods and published motor curves, peak power tests, and locked rotor stall tests for all to see and analyze. Head to http://motors.vex.com/ and pick your favorite motor to get started!


VEX Merchandise Store

Believe it or not, this is actually one of our most-requested items. So, by popular demand, now anyone can pick up your own VEX "swag" in a variety of styles and designs! This is not exclusive to VEXpro, so if you're a VEX EDR or VEX IQ fan this should be great news for you too. Take a look at http://www.vexrobotics.com/merchandise to pick out your next shirt (or hoodie, or track jacket, or iPad case..). We hope to update this store regularly, so check back often or let us know if there is anything you would like to see!

[notmattlythgoe]

http://mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Friends1.gif

[cbale2000]

I was starting to wonder if you guys had forgotten about this or if there really was an update, especially since the only official word about the update was just that one Twitter post. ;)

Any ETA when the site will be back up, and will there by any release video or stream like you guys have done in the past for this update?

[Andrew Schreiber]

http://mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Friends1.gif

Wait, is this the Vexmas gif party? http://i.giphy.com/2yEaxlkeyCSis.gif

[PayneTrain]

I was starting to wonder if you guys had forgotten about this or if there really was an update, especially since the only official word about the update was just that one Twitter post. ;)

Any ETA when the site will be back up, and will there by any release video or stream like you guys have done in the past for this update?

THEY'RE GONNA STREAM IT DIRECTLY TO YOUR BRAIN, YO. THE FUTURE.

https://49.media.tumblr.com/122e34c90039581a9e515fd26ddc455d/tumblr_nwksx9ZWMr1uzmph9o1_250.gif

[cbale2000]

THEY'RE GONNA STREAM IT DIRECTLY TO YOUR BRAIN, YO. THE FUTURE.

https://49.media.tumblr.com/122e34c90039581a9e515fd26ddc455d/tumblr_nwksx9ZWMr1uzmph9o1_250.gif

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2263/2851770371_e13e5e5931.jpg

[Nebster]

I'm so pumped :D

[lynca]

http://i.giphy.com/5mBE2MiMVFITS.gif

[PayneTrain]

I'm so pumped :D

reported/deported for lack of funny image

https://media.giphy.com/media/xTiTnHXbRoaZ1B1Mo8/giphy.gif

[mman1506]

https://media.giphy.com/media/OYgcKl4X7fvyM/giphy.gif

[Nebster]

reported/deported for lack of funny image

https://media.giphy.com/media/xTiTnHXbRoaZ1B1Mo8/giphy.gif

https://i.imgur.com/G7s2sHT.gif

[cgmv123]

https://media.giphy.com/media/E48amu6CLfeY8/giphy.gif

[Whippet]

https://media.giphy.com/media/lqXkZVDbMABDW/giphy.gif

[NWChen]

http://media.team254.com/2014/01/975007cb-ej.gif

[Whippet]

http://media.team254.com/2014/01/975007cb-ej.gif

/thread

[Basel A]

http://i.imgur.com/OhYmd2S.gif

[Mike Marandola]

http://i.imgur.com/x12hFFE.png



I was starting to wonder if you guys had forgotten about this or if there really was an update, especially since the only official word about the update was just that one Twitter post. ;)

They didn't forget, JVN even leaked what they will be releasing. (https://twitter.com/JohnVNeun/status/674091271787405313)

[Thad House]

OMG THANK YOU FOR THE NEW 775!!

[Grant Cox]

And we're back! First post has been updated with some specific info, but check out the New for 2016 (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/new-for-2016) page for details.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Re Motors.Vex.Com What's the sample size?

[Nathan Streeter]

VersaPlanetary Integrated Encoder (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/motors-electronics/217-5046.html) - Seamlessly combining the powerful CTR Electronics SRX Magnetic Encoder with the "most Versa" gearbox in FIRST
775pro (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/motors-electronics/217-4347.html) - West Coast Products changes the rules of the game. CIM power in a 775 form-factor. You're welcome.
VersaDrop (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/all/217-4824.html) - Making articulated "butterfly" or "octocanum" drivetrains available to all
Plastic VersaFrame Stock (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/versaframe/versaframestock.html) - Taking "lightweight mechanism design" to another level
3.25" Omni-Directional Wheel (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/motion/wheels-and-hubs/omni-wheels.html) - Because let's be frank, small is the new cool


That 775 motor though!!

Battery In: 12V DC
Free Speed: 18,700 rpm (+/- 10%)
Maximum Power: 347 W
Stall Torque: 6.28 in-lbs (0.71 N-m)
Stall Current: 134A
Size: 1.744” (44.3 mm) diameter, 2.602” (66.10 mm) long
Weight: 0.8 lbs (actual weight one item, no packaging)

I'm guessing that VEX has more-or-less 'pre-approved' this with FIRST HQ... There'd be some serious public outcry if that motor weren't allowed!

[Aren_Hill]

Re Motors.Vex.Com What's the sample size?

Currently 8 motors were tested for that Data, will develop further over time.

-Aren

[Andrew Schreiber]

Currently 8 motors were tested for that Data, will develop further over time.

-Aren

I might be asking a but is it possible to put that number (and maybe min/max) somewhere on the page?

I also assume all of this is stored in the raw data section but I haven't gotten there yet.

[Thad House]

That 775 motor though!!

Battery In: 12V DC
Free Speed: 18,700 rpm (+/- 10%)
Maximum Power: 347 W
Stall Torque: 6.28 in-lbs (0.71 N-m)
Stall Current: 134A
Size: 1.744” (44.3 mm) diameter, 2.602” (66.10 mm) long
Weight: 0.8 lbs (actual weight one item, no packaging)

I'm guessing that VEX has more-or-less 'pre-approved' this with FIRST HQ... There'd be some serious public outcry if that motor weren't allowed!

That 775 has an awesome power output. All my worries are gone. The new best FRC motor is back. More powerful then a CIM is plain amazing

[jman4747]

Vex Pro 2016:

WHAT!?


YES!

[mman1506]

They listened to me :D VP encoder!

[AdamHeard]

That 775 has an awesome power output. All my worries are gone. The new best FRC motor is back. More powerful then a CIM is plain amazing

This is appears to be a much higher quality motor than the one banebots sourced as well.

[Jared Russell]

That 775 has an awesome power output. All my worries are gone. The new best FRC motor is back. More powerful then a CIM is plain amazing

Commence the year of the brown out!

[Thad House]

Currently 8 motors were tested for that Data, will develop further over time.

-Aren

Do you guys ever think you would be able to test the old 775, that way teams could easily compare it to the new 775pro?

[Jared Russell]

Do you guys ever think you would be able to test the old 775, that way teams could easily compare it to the new 775pro?

Look at the page again :)

http://motors.vex.com/

[Karthik]

Do you guys ever think you would be able to test the old 775, that way teams could easily compare it to the new 775pro?

Here, I did it really quickly for you. ;)

http://motors.vex.com/bb-775

[Thad House]

Lol response overload :D I guess I'm just blind.

Commence the year of the brown out!

Totally. Teams are going to need to be really careful.

[mman1506]

Could you make a totally non scientific video bashing the new plastic extrusion with a hammer? I'm a huge fan of plastics but convincing others will be difficult.

[s_forbes]

Neat stuff!

How are the tolerances on the polycarb tubing? We use extruded polycarb round tubes for underwater robots, and the dimensions are pretty consistently off of nominal.

Currently 8 motors were tested for that Data, will develop further over time.

-Aren

Powerful little motors! For the locked rotor stall test, it looks like they'll cook if stalled in under 10ms? EDIT: oh, I can't read units on graphs. Looks like it cooked at about 3 seconds from the raw data you have

[Basel A]

Commence the year of the brown out!

2015 control system + 2015 motor rules in any other game would've been the year of the brownout anyway. Depending on 2016 motor rules (Still unlimited non-CIM? 6 total CIM+Vex775?), you're right that it could be remarkably bad.

[Jared Russell]

Any chance we could get measured RS-550 data too? It would be useful for translating prototypes or old robot mechanisms into equivalent current-season-legal designs...and also to satisfy my hunch that the RS-550 radically underperforms its specs :)

[mman1506]

Are the gears in the VP integrated encoder 1:1?
Any updates on the plastic versablocks to fix the stripping issue?

[nuclearnerd]

One stat I'd like to see on the motor page: how long can each motor run at stall before it burns out.

At 135W, and no mass to sink it, I bet the 775Pro burns in a second. (Unless you could rig a secondary cooling blower. Hmmmm)

[AdamHeard]

One stat I'd like to see on the motor page: how long can each motor run at stall before it burns out.

At 135W, and no mass to sink it, I bet the 775Pro burns in a second. (Unless you could rig a secondary cooling blower. Hmmmm)

The locked rotor stall test conveys this. Looks like it lasts 3.911 seconds.

Battery sag + all the resistance in line changes that some on an FRC robot though. These look like they'll be fairly robust.

[cad321]

At 135W, and no mass to sink it, I bet the 775Pro burns in a second. (Unless you could rig a secondary cooling blower. Hmmmm)

Just strap a fan onto another 775 directly behind it. :D :p

Also, when can we expect the new 775's to be in stock?

[nuclearnerd]

The locked rotor stall test conveys this. Looks like it lasts 3.911 seconds.

Battery sag + all the resistance in line changes that some on an FRC robot though. These look like they'll be fairly robust.

Oh thanks. I missed that (didn't realize there was more information when you click on each motor). 4 seconds isn't a lot of time though. Maybe it's time to design a Versaplanetary clutch stage? :)

[R.C.]

Just strap a fan onto another 775 directly behind it. :D :p

Also, when can we expect the new 775's to be in stock?

WCP will have equivalent pages up and we should have a decent amount of stock shipping within a week or so.

[JVN]

Oh thanks. I missed that (didn't realize there was more information when you click on each motor). 4 seconds isn't a lot of time though. Maybe it's time to design a Versaplanetary clutch stage? :)

If you like stalling motors at 12V for that much time... perhaps I can interest you in one of our sealed-can motors? :)

[nuclearnerd]

If you like stalling motors at 12V for that much time... perhaps I can interest you in one of our sealed-can motors? :)

Probably a wise suggestion :) I'm trying to remember how many intake motors my old team went through in 2014. It was nice to have a lightweight powerful motor to rush the ball into the bot, but when the ball came in a little crooked... poof.

[Anupam Goli]

Looking forward to those integrated encoders on the VP. This is a great addition for teams that are looking to do more advanced controls without having to use third party sensors and create custom mounts.

Also obviously excited for the 775pro, can't wait to get our hands on some.

[JesseK]

Is the VersaPlanetary Integrated Encoder Thru Coupling the same material as the typical Versaplanetary gearset? Is there a maximum torque/power for the coupling, or is it more likely that other things will break first? This is a 'best practice' question for something like an arm or something like a 2015 tote elevator winch. Phrased via example, would the encoder be safe enough on the last stage in (e.g.) the faster stackers of 2015 or would we want to consider moving it a stage up to reduce its transmitted torque?

[Aren_Hill]

Is the VersaPlanetary Integrated Encoder Thru Coupling the same material as the typical Versaplanetary gearset? Is there a maximum torque/power for the coupling, or is it more likely that other things will break first? This is a 'best practice' question for something like an arm or something like a 2015 tote elevator winch. Phrased via example, would the encoder be safe enough on the last stage in (e.g.) the faster stackers of 2015 or would we want to consider moving it a stage up to reduce its transmitted torque?

This torque spec will be updated on the product page in the coming weeks.

-Aren

[Anthony Galea]

Does the VersaDrop only work with two 4" wheels? Or can you use a 4" wheel and a 6"?

[Richard Wallace]

But wait, there's more..! In addition to these new products, we are also launching some exciting new sections to our website.

Motors.VEX.com (http://motors.vex.com) - VEX Robotics DC Motor Testing

DC motor selection is an essential part of robot and mechanism design, but the sea of specifications and options available can sometimes be confusing. To help aid budding robot designers in understanding this relationship, VEX has developed an educational guide (http://motors.vex.com/introduction) that explains the four key characteristics of DC motors and how they can be used to select the ideal motor for your application.

Furthermore, to ensure that users have the data needed to make such an educated selection, VEX has tested seven popular motors (including the new 775pro) using industry-standard methods and published motor curves, peak power tests, and locked rotor stall tests for all to see and analyze. Head to http://motors.vex.com/ and pick your favorite motor to get started!

Best gift to the FRC community since the 2005 KoP gearbox.

100% Richard approved. :)

[nuclearnerd]

Does the VersaDrop only work with two 4" wheels? Or can you use a 4" wheel and a 6"?

The total drop is only ~0.6" (only 0.2" of which is "below zero"), so I'm guessing not as designed. Instead, I'm trying to find out if the gear ratio between the two wheels can be modified significantly.

[cbale2000]

775pro (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/motors-electronics/217-4347.html) - West Coast Products changes the rules of the game. CIM power in a 775 form-factor. You're welcome.

If I'm reading the benchmarks (http://motors.vex.com/) right and doing my math correctly... if you geared down this motor to the same RPM as a CIM, isn't it actually slightly more powerful than said CIM? :eek:

[ahartnet]

It's hard to pick a thing to be most excited about.

I'm very thankful for all the effort put into the data gathering on motors. I agree with Richard above that that might be the best gift to FRC in quite some time.

Tied with the 775Pro.

Tied with the the integrated VP encoder that can do both relative and absolute. (EDIT: See note from nuclearnerd ozrien below)

[safiq10]

This so perfect! Thank you to everyone a part of the Vex team, but one question: Will we ever get a #ballshiftsohard hoodie?

[nuclearnerd]

There's a big asterisk on the "absolute encoder" thing. It's still a relative encoder, but it includes it's own counter. It's nice not to have to implement a counter on the rio, but you would still have the problem of the zero changing every time you start up the robot. An actual absolute encoder would give the proper reading no matter how often the sensor had been turned off and moved. (see page 22 of the encoder user guide here: http://content.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/pdf/SRX-Mag-Encoder-User-Guide.pdf)

I'm wondering - do the rules allow us to power the encoder from a separate 5V battery that we could leave on all the time (even when the main battery is removed)?

[Ginger Power]

It truly is a Merry Vexmas!

[ahartnet]

There's a big asterisk on the "absolute encoder" thing. It's still a relative encoder, but it includes it's own counter. It's nice not to have to implement a counter on the rio, but you would still have the problem of the zero changing every time you start up the robot.

Thanks for the catch. Definitely a big asterisk that I'm glad you pointed out. Got wrapped up in too much excitement!

[nuclearnerd]

On the subject of the encoder - it looks like it needs a "diametrically polarized" magnet to spin in front of it to work. The user guide I linked has lots of tips for embedding the magnet in existing gearboxes, with the glaring exception of VEX ballshifters (which currently need encoders to have a 1/4" bushing-supported shaft).

I wonder if VEX has a solution already cooked up for ballshifters and these new encoders. If not, I wonder if it would be possible to make a replacement for the plastic encoder gear that has pockets for multiple magnets around the perimeter (or something).

[ozrien]

There's a big asterisk on the "absolute encoder" thing. It's still a relative encoder, but it includes it's own counter. It's nice not to have to implement a counter on the rio, but you would still have the problem of the zero changing every time you start up the robot. An actual absolute encoder would give the proper reading no matter how often the sensor had been turned off and moved. (see page 22 of the encoder user guide here: http://content.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/pdf/SRX-Mag-Encoder-User-Guide.pdf)


The sensor provides both an absolute and a relative position. The "absolute position" is an absolute 12bit encoded value that wraps every rotation. This works similarly to the MA3 absolute analog encoder which gives you an absolute voltage (0 to 3.3V) for one full rotation.

You can think of it like having an MA3 analog encoder and a relative quadrature encoder both kitted in one, which solves several challenges in closed-looping.

If you don't move the mechanism and you power cycle the sensor, the bottom 12bits of the analog position remains unchanged.

Yes both the absolute and relative positions count the wrap arounds. But this doesn't mean you lose the benefit of absolute position. If you're application does not need wrap-around counting (like a continuous swerve) its pretty easy to add in the number of whole rotations to your 12 bit target position to achieve what you want. In fact this gives you the benefit of absolute position, plus you get to decide which direction you want to servo (always clockwise, always counterclockwise, or choose the path with smallest distance.)

[Munchskull]

On the subject of the encoder - it looks like it needs a "diametrically polarized" magnet to spin in front of it to work. The user guide I linked has lots of tips for embedding the magnet in existing gearboxes, with the glaring exception of VEX ballshifters (which currently need encoders to have a 1/4" bushing-supported shaft).

I wonder if VEX has a solution already cooked up for ballshifters and these new encoders. If not, I wonder if it would be possible to make a replacement for the plastic encoder gear that has pockets for multiple magnets around the perimeter (or something).

It has one. (http://content.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/pdf/217-5046-Instructions-20151201.PDF)

Edit: Ops thought you were talking about the VP encoder stage.

[nuclearnerd]

Edit: Ops thought you were talking about the VP encoder stage.

Nope, the ball shifters. Although with a little creativity, maybe the versa planetary stage could be hacked onto the ball shifter...

[Thad House]

One thing I'm wondering now is why the 775 didn't get released last year? Its part number is right in the middle of last years numbering, and its drawing says October of 2014. ::rtm::

[sanddrag]

It'll be fun to swap a couple of these new 775s into our 2015 stacking robot, which currently uses two BaneBots 775s on the lift. Love the specs on this new motor. In theory, you could do a full robot without CIMs, though I wouldn't recommend it. I'm interested in seeing how this plastic tubing holds up too.

[Jim Zondag]

Very nice job on the DC motor tutorial, I have taught this subject many times. Understanding these principles is the key to properly designing any electrified mechatronic device. This tutorial is very well laid out, and does not use any concepts which are above high school levels of understanding. Nicely done!

[T^2]

One thing I'm wondering now is why the 775 didn't get released last year? Its part number is right in the middle of last years numbering, and its drawing says October of 2014. ::rtm::

Probably took a while to get approval from FIRST. 1323 was testing them on their bot during Madtown Throwdown 2014.

[AdamHeard]

Very nice job on the DC motor tutorial, I have taught this subject many times. Understanding these principles is the key to properly designing any electrified mechatronic device. This tutorial is very well laid out, and does not use any concepts which are above high school levels of understanding. Nicely done!

Agreed. Very handy explanation.

Having the 50% power for 180 seconds test, as well as the stall at different voltages, will be super handy for sizing systems.

[carpedav000]

Woo! Drop down modules! Grasshopper drive for all! :D

[Dillon Carey]

Agreed. Very handy explanation.

Having the 50% power for 180 seconds test, as well as the stall at different voltages, will be super handy for sizing systems.

I believe you meant 50% speed:p . The test is at the theoretical "max" power

[svenw]

Looking awesome guys. The motor selection guide looks awesome and will be a huge help to all teams.

However, I noticed a small units issue for calculating the peak power that you may want to fix up.

Work = 196W should be Work =196J
and then Power = Work/time

[Jared]

The 775pro looks totally awesome. I am very happy that we no longer have to purchase from BaneBots.

I'm confused by the section in the motors guide that starts with "Note: Current Draw at Peak Power"

196 watts is not the power requirement for a motor to lift 20 kg 1.0 meters in the air. Power depends on the speed at which the box is lifted and motors should be selected based on the power required from them, not the amount of work being performed. The units are also a little questionable.

[Sohaib]

From what I see, there's nothing that says that the 775pro is going to be legal for the 2016 season; (I guess the same could be said about any other motor) albeit FIRST did decide to not allow the Banebots ones anymore due to the supply running out.

It just concerns me that on the page for this motor is does not say it is FRC legal, unlike the CIM motor.

[orangemoore]

From what I see, there's nothing that says that the 775pro is going to be legal for the 2016 season; (I guess the same could be said about any other motor) albeit FIRST did decide to not allow the Banebots ones anymore due to the supply running out.

It just concerns me that on the page for this motor is does not say it is FRC legal, unlike the CIM motor.

Technically we won't know until the rules come out with the game. OR if FIRST decides that people should know before kickoff that it is or not FRC legal.

[PayneTrain]

As a team that likes to run a robot that can push around other robots, thanks for VersaDrop.

[josesantos]

TL;DR: 775Pro looks good. New motor page is awesome. What is happening during the peak power test?

Glad to see a viable (and then some)* replacement for the 18V BB RS-775. Is the 775pro made by CCL/CIM? If so, they make all the high power (149 W+) FRC motors between the CIM, Mini CIM, BAG, and AndyMark 9015...

In any case, I was super stoked to see the new motors website. Consistent data from a reliable source is always a good thing when considering which motor(s) to use, and as student/motor nerd I think it's great how transparent VEX is about testing.

Speaking of which, can someone please explain to me what exactly is happening during the peak power test? From my understanding the motor is running open loop with a regulated power supply and receives a controlled "half stall" torque. Over time the power output (which I assume is actually measured velocity times controlled torque) decreases. Is the motor just heating up over time and therefore unable to produce as much mechanical work? Is the reduced maximum power permanent? Some of the motors look like they burn out before 3 minutes, but I wouldn't assume one way or the other for the sealed can motors.

*Awaiting a season's worth of stress testing for final opinions, but it definitely looks good on paper.

[asid61]

Of all of the new products, the one I most can't wait for is the 775pro! I want to check out the plastic versaframe too, but I want to see some specs on it, particularly when compared to 0.040" or 0.0625" aluminum box tubing.

[timytamy]

Has anyone heard of the "Hero Gadgeteer"?

Page 18 of http://content.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/pdf/SRX-Mag-Encoder-User-Guide.pdf shows the encoder being connected to this.

It looks like some sort of CAN enabled IO board or controller, designed to interface with TalonSRX style IO connectors.

[Knufire]

Has anyone heard of the "Hero Gadgeteer"?

Page 18 of http://content.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/pdf/SRX-Mag-Encoder-User-Guide.pdf shows the encoder being connected to this.

It looks like some sort of CAN enabled IO board or controller, designed to interface with TalonSRX style IO connectors.

http://www.ctr-electronics.com/control-system/hro.html

[Chris is me]

Of all of the new products, the one I most can't wait for is the 775pro! I want to check out the plastic versaframe too, but I want to see some specs on it, particularly when compared to 0.040" or 0.0625" aluminum box tubing.

I expect that it will behave similarly to polycarbonate 1x1 tubing teams used in 2014 - fairly strong, somewhat flexible, great for applications outside the frame perimeter. I'm glad that there's finally a great source for this stuff!

Great products all around from Vexpro this year, very excited to see what teams can do with the new 775, drop modules, etc.

[Michael Hill]

I love all the motor data.

I also would REALLY like to see the data on the BB RS-550. After using them in our elevator last year, I feel like the published specs weren't quite...right.

[jman4747]

I think there is a typo on the 775pro page. It says the shaft size is 5mm (.0157in) 5mm is roughly 0.196 inches. The drawing has it right.

[Aren Siekmeier]

Will it be possible to purchase the Versaplanetary encoder housing separately from the encoder? We'll be getting some encoders to play with in other applications as well, wondering if we can later assemble them into VP housings without buying the whole kit.

(Looks like from the manuals the encoder is not modified to fit the VP, correct me if I'm wrong.)

[R.C.]

I think there is a typo on the 775pro page. It says the shaft size is 5mm (.0157in) 5mm is roughly 0.196 inches. The drawing has it right.

That is correct, the shaft is 5mm @ .196 ish and not 4mm @ .157.

[JVN]

I love all the motor data.

I also would REALLY like to see the data on the BB RS-550. After using them in our elevator last year, I feel like the published specs weren't quite...right.

This is a common request, but unfortunately when we went to purchase BB550's for testing, they were unavailable.

[Jay O'Donnell]

This is a common request, but unfortunately when we went to purchase BB550's for testing, they were unavailable.

I'm sure you could find some unused ones from teams that are willing to part with them.

[Grant Cox]

I think there is a typo on the 775pro page. It says the shaft size is 5mm (.0157in) 5mm is roughly 0.196 inches. The drawing has it right.

Oops! This has been fixed, thanks for pointing it out.

[JVN]

I'm sure you could find some unused ones from teams that are willing to part with them.

Sure thing, any team with (8) or more unused BB550 motors should email prosupport@vex.com

We're happy to test them.

[Nuttyman54]

Great stuff as usual!

Any chance the brackets from the VersaDrop kit will be available for individual purchase? Specifically the piston mount bracket would be super handy for general piston mounting, but I'm not going to buy a kit if I'm only using that.

[jeremylee]

VersaDrop is perfect for h-drive.

[Caleb Sykes]

Really excited for the versaplanetary encoder stage. We will certainly be getting a few of those along with more gearboxes.

[Ginger Power]

VersaDrop is perfect for h-drive.

Yes it is. VersaDrop makes it so much easier to build a nonadrive, or as I like to call it, butterslide drive. My favorite part about the VersaDrop is that because it's COTS, you can bring extra modules with to competition without them counting against your withholding allowance.

[Tottanka]

Any idea on when the new items should be available for order?

[kitare102]

Why is it that on the assembly instructions for the unit, the VersaDrop is shown with a motor attached directly (a clever design), while in the octocanum rendering, the drive motors for the Drops are separate? Seems like this would be the perfect opportunity to simplify the design.

[R.C.]

Any idea on when the new items should be available for order?

WCP has the stuff up for ordering, still modifying the pages a bit tho. We will not be shipping out new items for about 1-2 weeks.

[BBray_T1296]

Why is it that on the assembly instructions for the unit, the VersaDrop is shown with a motor attached directly (a clever design), while in the octocanum rendering, the drive motors for the Drops are separate? Seems like this would be the perfect opportunity to simplify the design.

I think it is just to show you all the different ways it could be configured.

[Tottanka]

WCP has the stuff up for ordering, still modifying the pages a bit tho. We will not be shipping out new items for about 1-2 weeks.

So, no way to get them before new years, for international teams with a 1 week shipping time?

[R.C.]

So, no way to get them before new years, for international teams with a 1 week shipping time?

We won't be able to sadly but if you call the folks at VEX I'm sure they can make happen for you (no guarantees but please give them a call). We are receiving stock from VEX.

[IndySam]

Great stuff as usual!

Any chance the brackets from the VersaDrop kit will be available for individual purchase? Specifically the piston mount bracket would be super handy for general piston mounting, but I'm not going to buy a kit if I'm only using that.

Notice that they called it a "cylinder mount?" Because it is a cylinder, not a piston.

Be proud that you are the first victim of my annual "It's a cylinder, not a piston" campaign.

[Tom Ore]

Be proud that you are the first victim of my annual "It's a cylinder, not a piston" campaign.

My campaign is cement vs concrete. (I designed concrete batching plants a long time ago so I'm a bit sensitive.)

[Ernst]

Does anyone know if the Versadrop piston actuates well when driving the robot on a cement sidewalk?

[IndySam]

Does anyone know if the Versadrop piston actuates well when driving the robot on a cement sidewalk?


"It's a cylinder, not a piston"

Brought to you by the IACNAP campaign.

[cbale2000]

Does anyone know if the Versadrop piston actuates well when driving the robot on a cement sidewalk?

I cannot think of any reason why the type of surface would affect the actuation of the Versadrop cylinder. Any solid surface should work fine I would think.

[BBray_T1296]

Does anyone know if the Versadrop piston actuates well when driving the robot on a cement sidewalk?

"It's a cylinder, not a piston"

Brought to you by the IACNAP campaign.

I cannot think of any reason why the type of surface would affect the actuation of the Versadrop cylinder. Any solid surface should work fine I would think.

Taking the bait :p

[cbale2000]

Taking the bait :p

Would have helped if I had not skipped reading the above that first one...

On a more on-topic note. Is there any ETA of when these items will be available from Vex and it's suppliers? I saw that WCP said 1-2 weeks, will they be available direct from Vex any sooner than that?

[Daler99]

5813 will almost definitely be using some of the encoders and the 775s. :D Vex Pro is a huge it with our team. ;)

[JesseK]

My campaign is cement vs concrete. (I designed concrete batching plants a long time ago so I'm a bit sensitive.)

It's funny how typing 'cement v' into google will auto complete that exact search, and yet it's the 4th link down before there's any reasonably short explanation for what the difference between the two is. And yet even after reading that simple and short explanation, I have already forgotten if concrete is used in cement or vice-versa, and which one is limestone-based vs just water and substrates.

Not railing on this, just kinda poking at it as a reminder that ya know what ya know, but there's only so much we can cram in :cool:

[Nemo]

If you like stalling motors at 12V for that much time... perhaps I can interest you in one of our sealed-can motors? :)

Maybe somebody can satisfy my curiosity here. Why would a sealed can motor survive a stall better than an open motor that can be cooled more easily? BAG and 9015 are roughly the same size and power, but BAG survives a stall for longer. Is it because it's sealed or in spite of that?

Edit: Is it the lack of oxygen?

[jwfoss]

Maybe somebody can satisfy my curiosity here. Why would a sealed can motor survive a stall better than an open motor that can be cooled more easily? BAG and 9015 are roughly the same size and power, but BAG survives a stall for longer. Is it because it's sealed or in spite of that?

Edit: Is it the lack of oxygen?

I believe the largest contributing factor is the greater thermal mass of the motor.

[cgmv123]

It's funny how typing 'cement v' into google will auto complete that exact search, and yet it's the 4th link down before there's any reasonably short explanation for what the difference between the two is. And yet even after reading that simple and short explanation, I have already forgotten if concrete is used in cement or vice-versa, and which one is limestone-based vs just water and substrates.

Since no one else has clarified for those who may not know, concrete = cement + aggregate + water.

Maybe somebody can satisfy my curiosity here. Why would a sealed can motor survive a stall better than an open motor that can be cooled more easily? BAG and 9015 are roughly the same size and power, but BAG survives a stall for longer. Is it because it's sealed or in spite of that?

Edit: Is it the lack of oxygen?

The 9015 (like most other open motors) is air-cooled. The motor spinning drives a fan that draws air through the body of the motor. At stall, the fan doesn't spin, so the motor doesn't cool nearly as well.

The BAG (like the CIM and the Mini-CIM) isn't cooled per se. Rather it's case has a high thermal mass and the internals can take more heat than the internals on an air-cooled motor.

[Aren Siekmeier]

Maybe somebody can satisfy my curiosity here. Why would a sealed can motor survive a stall better than an open motor that can be cooled more easily? BAG and 9015 are roughly the same size and power, but BAG survives a stall for longer. Is it because it's sealed or in spite of that?

Edit: Is it the lack of oxygen?

I believe it's nothing more than the mass. The BAG motor has almost 50% more than the 9015 (320 g vs ~220 g). The CIM and miniCIM obviously have a much bigger advantage over the likes of the 775pro, about 3x.

EDIT: Wow I need to stop refreshing like it's 1995.

[JVN]

Maybe somebody can satisfy my curiosity here. Why would a sealed can motor survive a stall better than an open motor that can be cooled more easily? BAG and 9015 are roughly the same size and power, but BAG survives a stall for longer. Is it because it's sealed or in spite of that?

Edit: Is it the lack of oxygen?

Nemo,
jwfoss, cgmv123, and Aren Sikmeier nailed it.

I didn't mean to be unintentionally confusing, but the OTHER motors sold as part of VEXpro (which all happened to be sealed) are much more comfortable in a stall situation.

You can see the individual performance at motors.vex.com

If you're speaking in gross over-simplifications and generalities:
"Air-breathers like running fast, and don't handle high-load, low-speed very well."

Sometimes gross over-simplifications are good enough for FRC. :)

-John

[Ari423]

On the VersaDrop, does anyone know how the pancake cylinder is connected to the module? It looks like it just pushes on that standoff with nothing actually connecting them together. I would imagine this is not the case. If it is the case, how does the piston not slip and miss the standoff? If it isn't the case, how does the cylinder bend with the standoff as it turns around the circle? Or is this not a major issue?

[cadandcookies]

On the VersaDrop, does anyone know how the pancake cylinder is connected to the module? It looks like it just pushes on that standoff with nothing actually connecting them together. I would imagine this is not the case. If it is the case, how does the piston not slip and miss the standoff? If it isn't the case, how does the cylinder bend with the standoff as it turns around the circle? Or is this not a major issue?

When I asked this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=117496) a few years ago, here's the answer Aren gave me (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1280729&postcount=2).

I'd assume the answer is somewhat similar here-- the arc motion is so short, and the cylinder and bar are very well defined, so it isn't necessary to connect the two.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Nick has it right. If you have omni wheels floating, you can just leave them and they won't hurt your driving. If you float traction wheels you would probably need to add a spring to raise the module to keep it from scrubbing during turns.

[GeeTwo]

When I asked this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=117496) a few years ago, here's the answer Aren gave me (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1280729&postcount=2).

I'd assume the answer is somewhat similar here-- the arc motion is so short, and the cylinder and bar are very well defined, so it isn't necessary to connect the two.

Nick has it right. If you have omni wheels floating, you can just leave them and they won't hurt your driving. If you float traction wheels you would probably need to add a spring to raise the module to keep it from scrubbing during turns.


I think that it is necessary to raise the omni wheel, because it is geared twice as fast as the fixed wheel; it would be spinning against the carpet whenever you were driving in traction generating heat and wearing down the wheel. In Aren's previous answer, he refers to a spring lifting the moving wheel up. I don't see one in the assembly directions, but it may be implicit in the way pieces fit.

[AllenGregoryIV]

I think that it is necessary to raise the omni wheel, because it is geared twice as fast as the fixed wheel; it would be spinning against the carpet whenever you were driving in traction generating heat and wearing down the wheel. In Aren's previous answer, he refers to a spring lifting the moving wheel up. I don't see one in the assembly directions, but it may be implicit in the way pieces fit.

It won't really wear the wheels since there is no down force on the wheel other then the weight of the module itself.

[Mr V]

Maybe somebody can satisfy my curiosity here. Why would a sealed can motor survive a stall better than an open motor that can be cooled more easily? BAG and 9015 are roughly the same size and power, but BAG survives a stall for longer. Is it because it's sealed or in spite of that?

Edit: Is it the lack of oxygen?


Thermal mass. A fan cooled motor is designed as a fan cooled motor and if it is operating at zero or low rpm the fan does not cool the motor. A sealed motor on the other hand is designed without forced air cooling in mind so while operating at 0 or low rpm will cause it to heat up more than normal it is still operating as designed, ie w/o the benefit of a fan cooling it.

The fan cooling is what allows a motor to have a higher power to weight ration vs a sealed motor.

[R.C.]

We now have 775pro's (http://www.wcproducts.net/motors) in stock. They'll be shipping out all week for anyone who wants them etc..

[thatprogrammer]

Has anyone tried using the new Poly carb tubing for prototyping? Curious how strong it is.

[s_forbes]

Regarding motors.vex.com:

The link for the locked rotor stall test data exists for all of the motors, but returns a 404 for the CIM and BAG motor. The data seems to exist for the other motors... Is this just an error in the site? (obligatory "fix plox")

[Grant Cox]

Regarding motors.vex.com:

The link for the locked rotor stall test data exists for all of the motors, but returns a 404 for the CIM and BAG motor. The data seems to exist for the other motors... Is this just an error in the site? (obligatory "fix plox")

Whoops.. Thanks for pointing that out! This has been fixed.

For future reference, you can also let us know about website errors by emailing prosupport [at] vex [dot] com directly - you will likely receive a result quicker than by posting on Chief Delphi!

[Akash Rastogi]

We now have 775pro's (http://www.wcproducts.net/motors) in stock. They'll be shipping out all week for anyone who wants them etc..

Amazing pricing on these, RC.

[cbale2000]

We now have 775pro's (http://www.wcproducts.net/motors) in stock. They'll be shipping out all week for anyone who wants them etc..

Glad we grabbed some of these when we did, I see they are on backorder already. :rolleyes:

[Monochron]

I was expecting a blog post sometime soon if the 775Pro was going to be legal this year. Are most people expecting them to be legal or do you think my paranoia is founded?

[Munchskull]

I was expecting a blog post sometime soon if the 775Pro was going to be legal this year. Are most people expecting them to be legal or do you think my paranoia is founded?

Most people are expecting them to be legal. Manufacturers work with the GDC so that they do not sink money into a product that is not legal.

[R.C.]

Glad we grabbed some of these when we did, I see they are on backorder already. :rolleyes:

We'll have more in stock soon ish. Also teams will have to wait till kickoff to see if they are legal!

[aldaeron]

We'll have more in stock soon ish. Also teams will have to wait till kickoff to see if they are legal!

Perhaps this is the "present" from the blog - free 775s!

[Ricky Q.]

We'll have more in stock soon ish. Also teams will have to wait till kickoff to see if they are legal!

Unlimited 775pro motors are indeed legal for 2016 per R29.

We have them available for ordering now:

http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/motors-electronics/217-4347.html