New AndyMark products 2016

[nuclearnerd]

According to this tweet, the first batch of new AM product announcements will arrive tomorrow, with more coming over the next two weeks.:
http://twitter.com/andymarkinc/status/676794623675645952

They have already teased some of the new products:
http://www.instagram.com/p/_RxImbhz78/
http://www.instagram.com/p/_Kd194hz9J/

I'm excited. Are you excited?

[notmattlythgoe]

http://mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/30-Rock.gif

[Ty Tremblay]

http://www.instagram.com/p/_RxImbhz78/

The drivetrain in the back right looks like a tank tread.

[notmattlythgoe]

The drivetrain in the back right looks like a tank tread.

I noticed the chassis rails. Looks different than any of the other ones they sell currently.

[Christopher149]

I noticed the chassis rails. Looks different than any of the other ones they sell currently.

And the chassis has REV extrusion as cross pieces.

[Ty Tremblay]

I noticed the chassis rails. Looks different than any of the other ones they sell currently.

CAUTION: Epic MSPaint skills.

http://i.imgur.com/UmT0AVo.jpg

[notmattlythgoe]

CAUTION: Epic MSPaint skills.

http://i.imgur.com/UmT0AVo.jpg

Hmm good eye.

[cad321]

Those plates on that (presuming) chassis look huge (1/4"?) If andymark is designing a Kop chassis so heavy, could this be the year our weight limit is increased? Or perhaps the game relies so heavily on our drive train this year (more so than usual) maybe they think it's worth the extra weight...

[Ty Tremblay]

Those plates on that (presuming) chassis look huge (1/4"?) If andymark is designing a Kop chassis so heavy, could this be the year our weight limit is increased? Or perhaps the game relies so heavily on our drive train this year (more so than usual) maybe they think it's worth the extra weight...

They already released the cross sections of the KOP drivetrain. I'll be similar to last year's, which is a good thing.

http://archive.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/AM14U3%20Sheet%20Metal%20Comparison.pdf

[AllenGregoryIV]

Those plates on that (presuming) chassis look huge (1/4"?) If andymark is designing a Kop chassis so heavy, could this be the year our weight limit is increased? Or perhaps the game relies so heavily on our drive train this year (more so than usual) maybe they think it's worth the extra weight...

FIRST already published the profile drawings for this year's kit of parts chassis it was in the blog post about the AndyMark PDV. It's only 1/8" thick like normal. The chassis in the photo is likely not the KOP chassis.

2015 KOP Chassis profile drawings. (http://archive.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/AM14U3%20Sheet%20Metal%20Comparison.pdf)

[marshall]

Would be nice to see some 3.25" wheels with tread...

[Jay O'Donnell]

Can someone with experience with Blue Nitrile Tread comment on its durability for drivetrain wheels? It looks pretty sweet and has a good CoF so it seems interesting.

[marshall]

Can someone with experience with Blue Nitrile Tread comment on its durability for drivetrain wheels? It looks pretty sweet and has a good CoF so it seems interesting.

It's quite nice. We used it in 2014 and were impressed. One set of tread made it through a competition and a practice day as opposed to the older orange stuff we had been using that barely made it through a competition.

[Ty Tremblay]

Can someone with experience with Blue Nitrile Tread comment on its durability for drivetrain wheels? It looks pretty sweet and has a good CoF so it seems interesting.

It has better grip than most other popular wheel types, but if you're in a heavily defensive game with a lot of aggressive driving you can expect to change the tread every competition. Maybe even between quals and elims.

[AdamHeard]

It has better grip than most other popular wheel types, but if you're in a heavily defensive game with a lot of aggressive driving you can expect to change the tread every competition. Maybe even between quals and elims.

2011 and 2014 we ran blue rough top 2" wide and replaced once per event, including champs, and had plenty of life left in it. It's good stuff.

[Sperkowsky]

So Andymark is going to start selling a chassis with tank treads? Cool.

[Jay O'Donnell]

2011 and 2014 we ran blue rough top 2" wide and replaced once per event, including champs, and had plenty of life left in it. It's good stuff.

Considering the heavy defense 973 was playing in those two years that definitely shows some great durability!

[EricDrost]

CAUTION: Epic MSPaint skills.

http://i.imgur.com/UmT0AVo.jpg

If this is really a tank tread drive, it looks like massive T-Bone bait to me.

Long flat surface of tread + quarter plate and 80-20 standoff construction?

[Ryan Dognaux]

CAUTION: Epic MSPaint skills.

http://i.imgur.com/UmT0AVo.jpg

Tank treads are so 2004 :)

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img/91d/91d3a8d5031433742d5059d7b75e1caf_l.jpg

[jwfoss]

Tank treads are so 2004 :)

I was thinking a little bit more modern, they seem rather 2006 to me... but I'd have to hear was 195 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/24011) and 522 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/23250) think about it.
Either way I'm excited to see a new line of products coming from AndyMark.

[Andy Baker]

Tank treads are so 2004 :)

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img/91d/91d3a8d5031433742d5059d7b75e1caf_l.jpg

Yes, definitely. Also, they are so 1999 (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/MDiukNHJiQtdNwKVnMxWvLqqNdN6THH4EsL0R0tHGqCLtLp0qi VROyUc38p6s1tk436jKQ=w1856-h763), 2001 (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/DiIA4l8KtQ-gOaqQoa6ITaB0B-mzf2UC3Q0HJImsKOvI_oBWEF_bVLayKNyN74HhOdYKEg=w1856-h763), 2002 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/13515), and 2003 (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/qtopIadxWO4R5leEHj1KHhnbWT2gB_CfBYXS-EUhr5u0cTc9RwE1d7eRxY7dt0SH_q_UwA=w1856-h763).

http://files.andymark.com/AndyandTank.JPG

[marshall]

Yes, definitely. Also, they are so 1999 (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/MDiukNHJiQtdNwKVnMxWvLqqNdN6THH4EsL0R0tHGqCLtLp0qi VROyUc38p6s1tk436jKQ=w1856-h763), 2001 (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/DiIA4l8KtQ-gOaqQoa6ITaB0B-mzf2UC3Q0HJImsKOvI_oBWEF_bVLayKNyN74HhOdYKEg=w1856-h763), 2002 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/13515), and 2003 (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/qtopIadxWO4R5leEHj1KHhnbWT2gB_CfBYXS-EUhr5u0cTc9RwE1d7eRxY7dt0SH_q_UwA=w1856-h763).


This is why we can't have nice carpet!

[Oblarg]

This is why we can't have nice carpet!

<Insert witty remark about regolith here>

[Breakaway3937]

Instead of tank, it looks more like grasshopper to me. You can see the timing belt on the right hand side of that front Blue Nitrile wheel. Just my two sense.

[Ginger Power]

Blue Nitrile Tread is the best smelling wheel tread. #thingsyoufigureoutat2AM

[notmattlythgoe]

Instead of tank, it looks more like grasshopper to me. You can see the timing belt on the right hand side of that front Blue Nitrile wheel. Just my two sense.

What are you calling a grasshopper drive? I've started seeing butterfly and grasshopper used to describe the same stuff now.

[marshall]

Blue Nitrile Tread is the best smelling wheel tread. #thingsyoufigureoutat2AM

I actually seem to recall a discussion about that in our lab in 2014 too when we were cutting it. I don't remember all of the conversation but I'm 90% certain we came to the same conclusion.

[Michael Corsetto]

Blue Nitrile Tread is the best smelling wheel tread. #thingsyoufigureoutat2AM

Can confirm, smells delicious.

[Jon K.]

They have all been staring at me funny here at AndyMark because I kept saying the same thing. The blue nitrile roughtop smells pretty good.

[Nathan Streeter]

I'm intrigued to see what all AM is releasing... looks like it'll at least include some nifty new wheels, treads, and pulleys. I'd love to see some good wheels for blue nitrile tread that effectively retain the tread (and preferably aren't a bear to assemble)... although the AM KOP wheels, VP VersaWheels, and new Colsons are all good, none of them seem to be as grippy as blue nitrile tread (at a reasonable tread life).

[Lil' Lavery]

Can someone with experience with Blue Nitrile Tread comment on its durability for drivetrain wheels? It looks pretty sweet and has a good CoF so it seems interesting.

I last used it in 2007, so it's been a while. However, it had great durability that year (in what was a very defensive game, though less matches per event back then). We ran both of our events without replacing it, and it held up fine on carpet.

However, one outreach event on smooth concrete did wear the tread significantly. It also left blue streaks all over the concrete floor.

[JesseK]

Great, just what we need: more wheel options for Teh Chezy Pofs :rolleyes:

:D

[Tottanka]

They have all been staring at me funny here at AndyMark because I kept saying the same thing. The blue nitrile roughtop smells pretty good.

Grape juice, i believe.

[Sperkowsky]

Grape juice, i believe.
Im sold order me 25 palettes.

[mman1506]

Can someone with experience with Blue Nitrile Tread comment on its durability for drivetrain wheels? It looks pretty sweet and has a good CoF so it seems interesting.

We ran Blue Nitrile on 865 in 2014 on a highly defensive 6wd robot because we heard how durable it was. On average the middle wheel would last 2-3 matches before it became a slick. Our outer wheels would last 4-6 matches. Changing tread was a pain requiring two people to rivet the tread to the alu performance wheel and the ziptie attachment method did not work at all. We had to buy a second set of wheels so we could swap the tread fast enough (good thing we were using a WCD). The traction was marginally better than a Colson when fresh IMO.

4/10 would not use again

[thinker&planner]

Is that a 2" Stealth wheel? This would be great, if it could compete with BaneBots wheels.

[Ari423]

Is that a 2" Stealth wheel? This would be great, if it could compete with BaneBots wheels.

Judging by the "#stealthwheel" in the caption, I'd say it is.

[orangemoore]

Is that a 2" Stealth wheel? This would be great, if it could compete with BaneBots wheels.

Um this already exists.

http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-3155.htm

[jkelleyrtp]

Um this already exists.

http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-3155.htm

According to their drawing, it was developed about a week ago. Might be wrong however. Stealth Wheel Drawing (http://files.andymark.com/LayoutPrints/am-3155+2inWheelIntergrated500HEXREV1-1.PDF)

[Sperkowsky]

According to their drawing, it was developed about a week ago. Might be wrong however. Stealth Wheel Drawing (http://files.andymark.com/LayoutPrints/am-3155+2inWheelIntergrated500HEXREV1-1.PDF)

If you look on the drawings it has different tread Durometers for different colors. Looks like the one you can buy is the gray one which has a durometer of 77a compared to the blue(Pictured) which has a durometer of 50a. So Im guessing the new product has to do with the tread at not the wheel shape.

Also just noticed they spelled color wrong.

[Gregor]

Also just noticed they spelled color wrong.

Noupe

[BrendanB]

Noupe

So you coming to Natiounals this year?

[Nick Lawrence]

Also just noticed they spelled color wrong.

Colour is my favourite way to spell colour.

-Nick

[MichaelBick]

We ran Blue Nitrile on 865 in 2014 on a highly defensive 6wd robot because we heard how durable it was. On average the middle wheel would last 2-3 matches before it became a slick. Our outer wheels would last 4-6 matches. Changing tread was a pain requiring two people to rivet the tread to the alu performance wheel and the ziptie attachment method did not work at all. We had to buy a second set of wheels so we could swap the tread fast enough (good thing we were using a WCD). The traction was marginally better than a Colson when fresh IMO.

4/10 would not use again

How wide were your wheels?

[mman1506]

How wide were your wheels?

1" we used these http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-0393.htm

Admittedly it's an edge case. Blue nitrile treads will work fine for a lot of teams but with new COTS options like Colsons I think there are better options out there.

[Munchskull]

Well it is already evident that the big focus of the new products is going to be new wheels. The two instagram photos dipicted new color wheels, black and blue. Most likely to replace the bane bot wheels. Black, blue and grey have different durometers.

[asid61]

1" we used these http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-0393.htm

Admittedly it's an edge case. Blue nitrile treads will work fine for a lot of teams but with new COTS options like Colsons I think there are better options out there.

How odd. I wonder how your tread wore out so fast. We ran blue nitrile in 2014 and didn't need to swap out for two competitions.

[cad321]

If you hadn't seen it yet, some new products have been released. A whole slew of new wheels, and also some slick bumper material.

http://www.andymark.com/New-Products-s/189.htm

[Christopher149]

If you hadn't seen it yet, some new products have been released. A whole slew of new wheels, and also some slick bumper material.

http://www.andymark.com/New-Products-s/189.htm

The six (http://www.andymark.com/Plaction-p/am-3316.htm) and eight (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-3317.htm) inch wheels both say they are four inch diameter. Oops.

[Knufire]

The six (http://www.andymark.com/Plaction-p/am-3316.htm) and eight (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-3317.htm) inch wheels both say they are four inch diameter. Oops.

Just send an email over to support at andymark.com and they'll fix it ASAP.

[DiehardCybercard]

The six (http://www.andymark.com/Plaction-p/am-3316.htm) and eight (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-3317.htm) inch wheels both say they are four inch diameter. Oops.

Thanks for letting us know. Its been fixed. :D

[Knufire]

Just send an email over to support at andymark.com and they'll fix it ASAP.

Thanks for letting us know. Its been fixed. :D

Should've added "or if Brett sees this first...". :D

[marshall]

I notice there is some new slick bumper material in red and blue so to me this somewhat confirms that the bumper rules will be very similar to 2014 and provide for a variety of materials and require both a red and blue set. I am curious to see if AM will introduce anything else new for bumpers for this season though.

[Sperkowsky]

I notice there is some new slick bumper material in red and blue so to me this somewhat confirms that the bumper rules will be very similar to 2014 and provide for a variety of materials and require both a red and blue set. I am curious to see if AM will introduce anything else new for bumpers for this season though.

Well we ordered both of the rolls of slick material for now.
Is it similar in properties to the sail stuff people have been talking about.

[Tottanka]

Any idea on when all the bumper cloth will be in stock?

[Jared Russell]

2016 gamepieces made of Euroboard confirmed.

[Jon K.]

Any idea on when all the bumper cloth will be in stock?

It's available now! Sorry for the hiccup!

[jimbo493]

im surprised no one has mentioned the analogue pressure sensor, although it has been used in the past, now there is a easy to get FIRST compatible one, with full datasheet ect. Kinda nice.

[Knufire]

im surprised no one has mentioned the analogue pressure sensor, although it has been used in the past, now there is a easy to get FIRST compatible one, with full datasheet ect. Kinda nice.

AndyMark is distributing the sensor, but it was designed and produced by REV Robotics. Their product release is in a separate thread.

[Nathan Streeter]

The new wheels look like they provide some good options... two questions though...

1) Is there (or will there) be a 4" HiGrip wheel in the softer durometers (black and/or blue)? I see the larger 6" HiGrip wheels are available in the softer durometers and that the 4" stealth wheels are.

2) Has anyone used the 6" HiGrip black or blue wheels on a drivetrain yet? Would they last an event, you think? I heard rumors about some of these new wheels being tested at IRI.

As long as parts are listed as "in stock" does that mean they're ready to order?

[Jacob Paikoff]

Everything looks good, especially those 6" DuraOmnis that no one seems to be talking about. ;)

[Daniel_LaFleur]

im surprised no one has mentioned the analogue pressure sensor, although it has been used in the past, now there is a easy to get FIRST compatible one, with full datasheet ect. Kinda nice.

My question about that sensor is; Is it PSIA or PSIG?

[Nick Lawrence]

Can confirm, smells delicious.

Yes, it does smell delicious. Picture attached.

-Nick

[Mike Marandola]

Yes, it does smell delicious. Picture attached.

-Nick

Expecting this before kickoff.

http://i.imgur.com/Euz8Yg9.png

[MattRain]

Yes, it does smell delicious. Picture attached.

-Nick

I have to trust this statement, as I see an AH Beanie! :p

[Nick Lawrence]

The new wheels look like they provide some good options... two questions though...

1) Is there (or will there) be a 4" HiGrip wheel in the softer durometers (black and/or blue)? I see the larger 6" HiGrip wheels are available in the softer durometers and that the 4" stealth wheels are.

2) Has anyone used the 6" HiGrip black or blue wheels on a drivetrain yet? Would they last an event, you think? I heard rumors about some of these new wheels being tested at IRI.

As long as parts are listed as "in stock" does that mean they're ready to order?

Hi Nathan! Thanks for your questions.

1) We're still working on 4" versions of softer-durometer 4" HiGrip wheels.

2) We evaluated these tread materials with prototype versions of these wheels over the summer. Some of our testing included assembling a fully-weighted AM14U2 chassis and simply driving it around on tight pile carpet. A few of us here at AndyMark were drivers on our alumni teams and drove the wheels off this chassis. We found some interesting things:

77a (White HiGrip):
We feel that these wheels are a more durable option for teams' drivetrains. While they provide good traction, they make for a maintenance-free wheel for the average team. Under normal circumstances (perhaps not a super-defensive game like 2014) we feel that these wheels will last most teams the entire season.

60a (Black HiGrip):
These wheels provide an improvement in 'dynamic robot response.' Essentially we feel that these wheels are a good balance of tread-wear life and great drivetrain response. We found that these wheels caused the robot to respond to changes in robot direction (forward-backward, turning) much faster than the same chassis with white HiGrip wheels. They definitely wear faster than the 77a durometer wheels, but you trade wear life for an increase in traction. Our testing indicated that these wheels could last most teams a few matches (about a day's worth) under normal circumstances. Some teams may experience faster wear than others.

50a (Blue HiGrip):
Of all three, these wheels provide the biggest improvement in dynamic robot response. In the same drive testing, we were unable to get these wheels to noticeably slip when changing direction, or even attempting to do a 'burnout' against the wall. This testing was done with the same chassis (150lbs) and a fully charged battery. In a drivetrain, we feel that these wheels are soft enough to be considered a 'one match wheel.' Really meant to be used in emergency situations where you need the most dynamic traction (such as playing only a defensive role in the finals.) We are confident that they will wear out in about 2-3 minutes of really aggressive driving when used in a drivetrain. That doesn't mean that they don't make great wheels for other mechanisms!

I hope this provides some insight into our evaluation of this new line of wheels. We're really excited to see what teams do with them!

And finally, items that are in stock (without any other notes about lead time) are in our hands and ready to ship.

Sincerely,
Nick Lawrence

[Nathan Streeter]

Hi Nathan! Thanks for your questions.

(snipped)

Sincerely,
Nick Lawrence

Thank you for the response!

How likely are the 'in-the-works' 4" wheels to be ready for 2016 build season? Definitely not? Possibly? Probably?

[s_forbes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZfGMUkVDSA

[notmattlythgoe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZfGMUkVDSA

https://49.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1dev5PnKo1rqfhi2o1_500.gif

[Electronica1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZfGMUkVDSA

Looks pretty good! I like the shark fin on the tread so you don't need the flanges, just like the brecoflex treads.

[Andrew Schreiber]

https://49.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1dev5PnKo1rqfhi2o1_500.gif

Wait, is it 2001 again? At least this means I get another go at FIRST Frenzy in a couple years.

[notmattlythgoe]

Wait, is it 2001 again? At least this means I get another go at FIRST Frenzy in a couple years.

Please god no, I don't want to be back in high school.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Andrew Schreiber again.

[Ty Tremblay]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZfGMUkVDSA

This looks much better than what I drew in Paint.



called it

[notmattlythgoe]

This looks much better than what I drew in Paint.

called it

It was much better than my attempt...

http://pad3.whstatic.com/images/thumb/e/e7/Draw-a-Fish-Tank-Step-6.jpg/670px-Draw-a-Fish-Tank-Step-6.jpg

[Taylor]

2016 gamepieces made of Euroboard confirmed.

#funnynotfunny

[Munchskull]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZfGMUkVDSA

Please let tank tank treads and pullys be sold by andymark!

[AdamHeard]

Please let tank tank treads and pullys be sold by andymark!

I'd wager that's pretty likely.

[Whippet]

I fear for a game that would necessitate the existence of a COTS drivebase like this. :ahh:

[mwmac]

Hmm tanks, first offensive use Sept. 15, 1916...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_tank

[Electronica1]

I fear for a game that would necessitate the existence of a COTS drivebase like this. :ahh:

Well, didn't they come out with a cot bumper set up for the AM14U2 right before kickoff last year? I would say that is pretty much as far from a game hint as you can get.

[nuclearnerd]

called it

You win this round Tremblay...

[Taylor]

In the words of Allison ... (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=919812&postcount=12)

[Electronica1]

In the words of Allison ... (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=919812&postcount=12)

I feel like tank treads + drop down omnis using versadrop would be a pretty solid solution to that.

[Sperkowsky]

Well, didn't they come out with a cot bumper set up for the AM14U2 right before kickoff last year? I would say that is pretty much as far from a game hint as you can get.

I am pretty sure Andymark does not get a heads up on what the game is before hand but, I could be wrong.

From what I hear games are sometimes not fully designed until weeks before kickoff.

A product like this would take a lot longer to develop and source.

I could be wrong but either way I wouldn't stretch your brain too far as it most likely has nothing to do with this years game.

[Munchskull]

I feel like tank treads + drop down omnis using versadrop would be a pretty solid solution to that.

Combined tank with WCD and Octicanum using the new versa drops. Would be heavy but could be awesome.

[notmattlythgoe]

From what I hear games are sometimes not fully designed until weeks before kickoff.


A few years ago they said that they were going to start developing the games a few years in advance. I'd imagine he game is designed to the point that major changes won't happen, at least to the field itself.

[Electronica1]

Combined tank with WCD and Octocanum using the new versa drops. Would be heavy but could be awesome.

Well, the reason that butterfly works well with tank is because all the wheels on one side are linked, with octocanum you would need 4 independent treads, which kinda kills the point.

[notmattlythgoe]

Well, the reason that butterfly works well with tank is because all the wheels on one side are linked, with octocanum you would need 4 independent treads, which kinda kills the point.

Not necessarily. I'm seeing most butterfly designs using separate motors for each module.

[Sperkowsky]

A few years ago they said that they were going to start developing the games a few years in advance. I'd imagine he game is designed to the point that major changes won't happen, at least to the field itself.

I heard in a Game sense stream that the Recycle Rush scoring platforms were only put in place 1 month before kickoff even after the AM14U2 was already designed. They actually built it in every configuration and drove it over the platform to make sure it worked.

[notmattlythgoe]

I heard in a Game sense stream that the Recycle Rush scoring platforms were only put in place 1 month before kickoff even after the AM14U2 was already designed. They actually built it in every configuration and drove it over the platform to make sure it worked.

Very interesting if true.

[sanddrag]

Some of our testing included assembling a fully-weighted AM14U2 chassis and simply driving it around on tight pile carpet. Nick, can you elaborate on the motor and gearing combination used in this test you conducted?

[jkelleyrtp]

I heard in a Game sense stream that the Recycle Rush scoring platforms were only put in place 1 month before kickoff even after the AM14U2 was already designed. They actually built it in every configuration and drove it over the platform to make sure it worked.

Do you have a source? Did gamesense post it anywhere?

[Nick Lawrence]

Nick, can you elaborate on the motor and gearing combination used in this test you conducted?

4CIM, 10.71:1 Toughbox Mini gearboxes with prototype 4" HiGrips.

-Nick

[EricDrost]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZfGMUkVDSA

Isn't this going to tip backward in this test if there's weight above about... 12" in the back 2/3 of the robot?

What holds the treads on when another team is pushing this base sideways?

I'd love to see more videos of this system driving around at full weight.

[Mike Marandola]

I am pretty sure Andymark does not get a heads up on what the game is before hand but, I could be wrong.

I'm pretty sure they do. What about the elevated wheel brackets from 2010? That seemed to be based on the game.

[JesseK]

Hmm tanks, first offensive use Sept. 15, 1916...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_tank

This isn't getting enough visibility for how significant it seems...

Though in a game full of tanks I think the Jeeps will win the all-terrain battle.

I'm pretty sure they do. What about the elevated wheel brackets from 2010? That seemed to be based on the game.
AndyMark could have received the specs without knowing anything about that game. Sure, there could be some conjecture - but tbh if you didn't know what 2010 was about and had to guess it based upon those brackets and their inclusion in the KOP drive train ... not sure anyone would get it right.

[ratdude747]

I am pretty sure Andymark does not get a heads up on what the game is before hand but, I could be wrong.

From what I hear games are sometimes not fully designed until weeks before kickoff.

I'm pretty sure at least Andy Baker gets a heads up at some point. After all, they have to have inventory of game pieces and the like before kickoff (and in the case of 2009, make and build inventory of the mandatory wheels). Safe for the people who organize official kickoffs, IIRC they get some advance knowledge as part job (something to do with the tote contents IIRC).

[Ty Tremblay]

I heard in a Game sense stream that the Recycle Rush scoring platforms were only put in place 1 month before kickoff even after the AM14U2 was already designed. They actually built it in every configuration and drove it over the platform to make sure it worked.

GameSense here. While I can't remember if it was said on a GS show or not, I can corroborate that I remember hearing that AndyMark did not know about the scoring platforms until after the AM14U2 went to production.

If it was mentioned in a GS episode, it'd probably be this one: https://youtu.be/OFQPemOh4bI

Edit: Evan Morrison found it: https://youtu.be/E33Gxjdi0PY?list=PLIY-TB1MAu-X9ZcNqt-ot6_JM2Z02zZ6L&t=3016

[Basel A]

GameSense here. While I can't remember if it was said on a GS show or not, I can corroborate that I remember hearing that AndyMark did not know about the scoring platforms until after the AM14U2 went to production.

If it was mentioned in a GS episode, it'd probably be this one: https://youtu.be/OFQPemOh4bI

Edit: Evan Morrison found it: https://youtu.be/E33Gxjdi0PY?list=PLIY-TB1MAu-X9ZcNqt-ot6_JM2Z02zZ6L&t=3016

I'm surprised about this based on the precedent of the 2010 KoP Chassis, which was clearly designed to handle the big bumps (I can't find a picture or drawings, unfortunately).

[Knufire]

I'm surprised about this based on the precedent of the 2010 KoP Chassis, which was clearly designed to handle the big bumps (I can't find a picture or drawings, unfortunately).

It's a year-to-year thing. Everything about the game pre-kickoff is obviously on a need to know basis; it's HQ's discretion to what and when suppliers know about the game.

There's also logistical requirements, the KoP chassis needs to go to production early enough in the year that they can all be manufactured and kitted in time for KoPs to ship to local kickoffs, regardless of how far along the game design is.

[Ty Tremblay]

I'm surprised about this based on the precedent of the 2010 KoP Chassis, which was clearly designed to handle the big bumps (I can't find a picture or drawings, unfortunately).

FIRST and FRC have gone through a LOT of changes since 2010. It's probably safe to assume that the GDC and their communication with 3rd party vendors varies from year-to-year, never mind over the course of 5 years.

I think a succinct way to say this would be: In FIRST, there really isn't such a thing as precedent.

[Basel A]

FIRST and FRC have gone through a LOT of changes since 2010. It's probably safe to assume that the GDC and their communication with 3rd party vendors varies from year-to-year, never mind over the course of 5 years.

I think a succinct way to say this would be: In FIRST, there really isn't such a thing as precedent.

I'm sure lots has changed, but FIRST has said that their game design process has gotten longer (i.e. more details decided earlier), so you'd expect vendors - especially a trusted vendor like AM - to have more information earlier on. I guess I'd say that with the focus on FIRST starting game design earlier and trying to get them locked in, it's disappointing that a game element as important as scoring platforms was added as late as October.

[thatnameistaken]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZfGMUkVDSA

Product page is up, not available for sale yet.

[nuclearnerd]

[/URL]Product page is up, not available for sale yet.

[url]http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-3322.htm (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-3322.htm)

[Electronica1]

How does this work with bumpers?

[Munchskull]

Will the belts and pulleys be sold independently?

[PayneTrain]

How does this work with bumpers?

Well you only need bumpers on 3 sides of your robot this year.

It is pretty weird that AM is selling a key component of the KoP base 3 days before kickoff, though.

/s

[thatprogrammer]

With the pully sand belts be sold independently.

It appears so, the description of the product lists a product number for them.
(I want c-c numbers so we can work on drive trains :] )

[Ari423]

It is pretty weird that AM is selling a key component of the KoP base 3 days before kickoff, though.

Did I miss somewhere where it says that this is the 2016 KOP chassis? I saw Frank's blog post that the kit chassis would be similar to the AM14U2, which this is not IMO.

[Darkseer54]

Did I miss somewhere where it says that this is the 2016 KOP chassis? I saw Frank's blog post that the kit chassis would be similar to the AM14U2, which this is not IMO.

Take a closer look at what Wil said... :P

It is pretty weird that AM is selling a key component of the KoP base 3 days before kickoff, though.

/s

[Ari423]

Take a closer look at what Wil said... :P

Darn invisible text, gotta look closer next time

[jeser#1772]

I consider tracks to be in the same “do not use” list as Mecanums. But if you like it just research previous team 383 robots, they have done amazing things with tracks in the past. ;)

http://www.team383.org/en/index.html

[Electronica1]

I consider tracks to be in the same “do not use” list as Mecanums. But if you like it just research previous team 383 robots, they have done amazing things with tracks in the past. ;)

http://www.team383.org/en/index.html

Another good example would be 1619 (http://www.team1619.org/robots/design-spotlights/tank-drive). They have a lot of good info about tank treads.

[z_beeblebrox]

I'm pretty excited about these (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-3281.htm) breakout boards for the Talon SRX. We had to have custom ones made last season, so it's nice to save time with an off-the-shelf solution.

[AllenGregoryIV]

I'm pretty excited about these (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-3281.htm) breakout boards for the Talon SRX. We had to have custom ones made last season, so it's nice to save time with an off-the-shelf solution.

This is reasonable but a little odd. Like why would they use a different pin out for the analog input then the RoboRIO does? Also why did they force teams to use a 5 pin connector for the encoder instead of moving the index pins to one of the sides to allow for a 4 pin connection?

[marshall]

This is reasonable but a little odd. Like why would they use a different pin out for the analog input then the RoboRIO does? Also why did they force teams to use a 5 pin connector for the encoder instead of moving the index pins to one of the sides to allow for a 4 pin connection?

I'm also not a fan of the non-latching connectors. We tried it and it ended up being a mistake. We switched to wago connectors and were quite happy. There are latching .1" options though.

EDIT: I'm also a little worried about the through hole stuff. I doubt it will short and hopefully they align with the gaps between the fins on the case but why risk it when you can do a single sided board or 4+ layers and keep the bottom clean?

[sanddrag]

These track drives look really sweet. I predict AM selling a lot of these outside of FRC. Will the individual parts be available for purchase?

[JB987]

Well you only need bumpers on 3 sides of your robot this year.

It is pretty weird that AM is selling a key component of the KoP base 3 days before kickoff, though.

/s

Huh? Bumpers on 3 sides? Source?

[Knufire]

Huh? Bumpers on 3 sides? Source?

/s is internet lingo for sarcasm.

[JB987]

/s is internet lingo for sarcasm.

Indeed it is. I just don't see it in the original post I questioned:)

[Knufire]

Indeed it is. I just don't see it in the post I quoted above...

Oh, highlight the post.

[JB987]

Post 107

[AdamHeard]

Tank tracks don't have much place in FRC as a COTS item unless it's for climbing field obstacles.... This is a sign for sure imo.

[BBray_T1296]

What holds the treads on when another team is pushing this base sideways?


If you look closely, you can see the shark fins.
In actual fact, the whole drivetrain looks just like Tetrix tread kit with a blue nitrile tread attached to the outside

http://www.scalemodelguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Abandoned_tank_tracks.jpg

[Munchskull]

I really hope that this is a product that andymark is releasing because they can and not because of Stronghold. The idea of bumps that require treads makes me sick.

[Foster]

Today I learned something new. I've been using turnbuckles for years on antenna guy wires, cross braces for doors, braces for playhouses, etc. All the cases it's been working in tension.

The tank drive uses them in compression to keep the belts tight. A simple and elegant solution to the problem. Very cool.

[Sperkowsky]

I really hope that this is a product that andymark is releasing because they can and not because of Stronghold. The idea of bumps that require treads makes me sick.

Based on what Andy said yesterday it does not have anything to do with the game. It seemed as if the treads were more for industrial customers then us.

[Mark McLeod]

Post 107
Assuming you aren't trying to make a joke of some kind.
Use your mouse cursor to highlight the complete contents of post 107.
The large blank space at the end is a giveaway.
The hidden sarcasm mark is the same color as the post background and can't be seen normally.
However, in the quote background you subsequently used, the slightly different color background makes it a little visible, and while you were composing your post it would have been fully visible.

[JesseK]

These tank tracks make it look like it'd be easy to climb another robot. Bumpers (if in the usual spot) are useless to stop them. Though as a deterrent, I suspect there'll be some toppled-over tank bots too.

[techtiger1]

Anyone know where AndyMark is sourcing these belts from ? My guess is gates or breco flex thru a local supplier but just curious because it seems like even in large quantities these would be expensive to buy for production costs. We've done tank treads in the past on robots and so I curious. I think this tells us a lot about the game. :]

[Munchskull]

Based on what Andy said yesterday it does not have anything to do with the game. It seemed as if the treads were more for industrial customers then us.

Source?

[Ty Tremblay]

Source?

Probably here.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=140340


http://www.twitch.tv/firstupdatesnow/v/30497251 (starts at 1:00:25)

[jman4747]

Andy mentioned this last night and it just showed up. http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-3214-6.htm

I think a lot of you will like it.

[GeeTwo]

Andy mentioned this last night and it just showed up. http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-3214-6.htm

I think a lot of you will like it.

At 1/16" wall, we can procure this locally (in 20' lengths) the same week day (from one of our sponsors, no less). It's still great that this is available to all teams (and we may use this price for BoM purposes). This is a good bit thinner wall than Vex 2x1 tubing (which is 1/10" wall, about 50% thicker), but probably good enough for most superstructure/manipulator applications.

[AdamHeard]

At 1/16" wall, we can procure this locally (in 20' lengths) the same week day (from one of our sponsors, no less). It's still great that this is available to all teams (and we may use this price for BoM purposes). This is a good bit thinner wall than Vex 2x1 tubing (which is 1/10" wall, about 50% thicker), but probably good enough for most superstructure/manipulator applications.

Why would you price it at the more expensive price when you can price it as if from a metal supplier?

[GeeTwo]

Why would you price it at the more expensive price when you can price it as if from a metal supplier?

If we only use a few feet of it, the AM price may be better for BoM purposes.

[Ian Curtis]

If we only use a few feet of it, the AM price may be better for BoM purposes.

Online Metals will happily sell you a foot for $2.87 (or 6 for $12.75), so I can't see a scenario where AndyMark is the low cost provider. For some teams where ordering anything in a reasonable amount of time is a herculean task they are certainly the most convenient provider though.

Online Metals link (http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=6993&step=4&showunits=inches&id=1268&top_cat=60)

[Sperkowsky]

Online Metals will happily sell you a foot for $2.87 (or 6 for $12.75), so I can't see a scenario where AndyMark is the low cost provider. For some teams where ordering anything in a reasonable amount of time is a herculean task they are certainly the most convenient provider though.

Online Metals link (http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=6993&step=4&showunits=inches&id=1268&top_cat=60)
I'm going to assume it's for international teams.

[tindleroot]

Well, I think the most conclusive evidence that tank treads will not be required for FIRST Stronghold is the fact that the robot in the teaser video appears to have an 8WD, not treads.

[s_forbes]

Well, I think the most conclusive evidence that tank treads will not be required for FIRST Stronghold is the fact that the robot in the teaser video appears to have an 8WD, not treads.

I'm still surprised that none of the robots in 2013 were 2WD, as the game animation indicated.

http://i.imgur.com/eR4PWNy.gif

[z_beeblebrox]

I'm still surprised that none of the robots in 2013 were 2WD, as the game animation indicated.

I guess you'll need to fix that. :rolleyes:

[s_forbes]

I guess you'll need to fix that. :rolleyes:

http://i.imgur.com/Roh3fd4.gif

[Mark McLeod]

I'd expect one wheel from you...

[marshall]

You don't need wheels!

http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/bb-8.jpg

[Lil' Lavery]

That whole thing is a wheel.

[mman1506]

Andymark has updated their website!

[Ari423]

What exactly is Euroboard? And why are all the new wheels' CoFs measured on Euroboard?

[Ty Tremblay]

What exactly is Euroboard? And why are all the new wheels' CoFs measured on Euroboard?

That was a joke. Euroboard is/was the floor for the FTC field.

New wheels because supply and demand.

[DiehardCybercard]

What exactly is Euroboard? And why are all the new wheels' CoFs measured on Euroboard?

Euroboard is a painted aluminum composite panel. We list a CoF on that kind of surface because we expect to see it used as a drive wheel in FIRST Tech Challenge robots more than as a drive wheel for FIRST Robotics Competition teams.

There's a lot of updates were still making so its likely you'll see more information being added over the upcoming weeks.

[Chak]

Andymark has updated their website!

I discovered that I can access the old website (http://www.andymark.com/v/404error-a/404.htm) by getting a 404 error on Andymark, and the links on it still works! :P

[DaveL]

Please let tank tank treads and pullys be sold by andymark!

Yes! The pulleys are being sold separately.
AM part# = am-3298
Edit: http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-3298.htm

Dave

[chrisfl]

I don't see the belts getting sold separately though. Will the tank track belts be sold separately? It would be nice so people could get replacements

[Mr V]

I don't see the belts getting sold separately though. Will the tank track belts be sold separately? It would be nice so people could get replacements

Since one of the design parameters seems to have been the ability to replace the belts quickly I'd say that they will eventually offer the belts separately. If you look at the pdfs of it it looks like all that is needed to replace the belt is removal of one stand off and of course loosing up the tensioning turn buckle far enough to get the belt off of one of the end pulleys.

[Andy Baker]

Online Metals will happily sell you a foot for $2.87 (or 6 for $12.75), so I can't see a scenario where AndyMark is the low cost provider. For some teams where ordering anything in a reasonable amount of time is a herculean task they are certainly the most convenient provider though.

Online Metals link (http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=6993&step=4&showunits=inches&id=1268&top_cat=60)

We're listening, and we realize that our price is high. We've lowered our 6' length down to $17 per stick.

I don't see the belts getting sold separately though. Will the tank track belts be sold separately? It would be nice so people could get replacements

Yep, the Rhino Track Drive belts will be sold separately as product am-3288. They are steel cord reinforced urethane timing belts, 65.5" long (endless loop), with blue carbox nitrile roughtop tread. They have a max tension point of 600 pounds. We have a bunch of pulleys and belts here in stock.

Andy

[Michael Hill]

We're listening, and we realize that our price is high. We've lowered our 6' length down to $17 per stick.



Yep, the Rhino Track Drive belts will be sold separately as product am-3288. They are steel cord reinforced urethane timing belts, 65.5" long (endless loop), with blue carbox nitrile roughtop tread. They have a max tension point of 600 pounds. We have a bunch of pulleys and belts here in stock.

Andy

Thanks for stocking the thin wall tubing Andy! It's great having a local cheap source for when we run out of our 973 supply. We went from no sources of thin wall tubing last year to at least 3 that will ship to us.

[nuclearnerd]

Some new stuff today:

A crimper for 6Ga lugs:
http://www.andymark.com/CrimpTool-p/am-3326.htm

An inexpensive, high CV solenoid valve:
http://www.andymark.com/Pneumatic-p/am-3324.htm

And a really neat shifting PTO "Rocketbox":
http://www.andymark.com/PTO-p/am-rocketbox.htm

[Jay O'Donnell]

Rocketbox looks really cool. If I wanted a PTO this year that's probably where I would go.

[jkelleyrtp]

Rocketbox looks really cool. If I wanted a PTO this year that's probably where I would go.

$320 is a little much for a PTO, don't you think?

[cadandcookies]

$320 is a little much for a PTO, don't you think?

Not really. Can you point to a comparable product for less?

[jman4747]

$320 is a little much for a PTO, don't you think?

Not based on the manufacturing cost.

Edit: Cim encoder too! http://www.andymark.com/encoder-p/am-3314.htm

[nuclearnerd]

Edit: Cim encoder too! http://www.andymark.com/encoder-p/am-3314.htm

Now that we can use!

[Jay O'Donnell]

$320 is a little much for a PTO, don't you think?

It is slightly more expensive than the WCP Shifting gearbox, and the shifting is being allocated to a whole new shaft. It's definitely expensive, but so is everything else in the robot world.

[Munchskull]

http://www.andymark.com/encoder-p/am-3314.htm

Looks a little pricy when there is already open source 3d printable alternative (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138750&highlight=Cimcoder).

[jman4747]

http://www.andymark.com/encoder-p/am-3314.htm

Looks a little pricy when there is already open source 3d printable alternative (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138750&highlight=Cimcoder).

Not if you don't have a 3D printer or mill/lathe. Also This looks thinner that the AMT-103V based options.

[Munchskull]

Not if you don't have a 3D printer or mill/lathe. Also This looks thinner that the AMT-103V based options.

That is true. It does require you to have a 3d printer. This CIM motor encoder is how ever way more versatile than the 3d printed one due to the fact that you do not loose that much shaft.

[marshall]

shaft

These things are some bad mountable encoders! ;)

[mklenk2016]

What parts are needed to convert the standard am14u3 kit from AndyMark to be able to use 8" pneumatic wheels?

[PurpleInk]

What parts are needed to convert the standard am14u3 kit from AndyMark to be able to use 8" pneumatic wheels?

AM-14U3-PN8

That will be a kit that will contain everything needed to outfit the AndyMark 8" pneumatic wheel on the AM14U3 Chassis.

It should be available for purchase this weekend.

Watch us assemble it LIVE: andymark.com/ri3d (http://www.andymark.com/ri3d)

[rpaulsen]

AM-14U3-PN8

That will be a kit that will contain everything needed to outfit the AndyMark 8" pneumatic wheel on the AM14U3 Chassis.

It should be available for purchase this weekend.

Watch us assemble it LIVE: andymark.com/ri3d (http://www.andymark.com/ri3d)

Hey my team just got the 8" wheel upgrade kit last night, and we are having some trouble figuring out which pieces go where. We have tried calling AndyMark but was asked to wait for the CAD files. Has anyone successfully put it together and would be able to help in the meanwhile?

[Mr V]

Ri3D Team [REDACTED] put together an early version of the pneumatic wheel kit but per my conversation with one of the AndyMark engineers the kit that is being sold to the general public has been changed based on the experiences of putting together the prototype kit.

So from my understanding on the drive wheel both pulleys go on the same side opposite from the valve stem side. On the outer wheel which will be driven by the outer belt there is a larger spacer that goes between the wheel and pulley. On the wheel driven by the inside belt there will be a long spacer outside the pulley.

Note for the kit used by some of the Ri3D teams you do need some of the spacers used in the basic 14U3 chassis.

So based on what I know now the wheel/axle spacers will go sort of like this.

Center driven wheel.
hex hub-wheel-small hub spacer-pulley-hub spacer?-pulley-hex bore spacer.

Outer wheel 1
small axle spacer- bearing/wheel/bearing assembly-hub spacer-pulley-long spacer

Outer wheel 2
small axle spacer-bearing/wheel/bearing assembly- thick hub spacer/hub spacer?-pulley-axle spacer.

Note this is speculation particularly those parts marked with a ? but hopefully that is enough to get you headed in the correct direction. In all cases the order is based on starting at the inner plate that carries the transmission.

Note that the kit the Ri3D teams used came with belts for a "long" 8" wheel configuration but we and the 'Snow Problem team used the belts and wheel locations for the square configuration for a shorter wheel base. In our case it was to reduce the break over angle, ie reduce the likelihood of getting high centered on the rock wall or moat. We also found that configuration gets the front of the chassis higher as you go up the ramps that the defense sits between. That was a plus when crossing the low defenses but a minus when getting under the bar or getting an manipulator under the porticullis to lift it.

[Roscoe Plowbots]

Team 3366, Roscoe Plowbots here, we have tried this conversion kit; however, we could not find the order to assemble it. We finally discovered that it requires some self manufacturing. Here is what we did:

Main Hub: hub ground down 3/8'- pulley - wheel, - pulley spacer w/ pulley end cap - hex nut

Right Wheel: small white spacer - large white spacer - inset pulley spacer - pulley - wheel - 34mm custom spacer

Left Wheel: small white spacer - large white spacer - wheel - 34mm custom spacer.

This is for the pneumatic 8' square drive train with 6 wheels. We used a small pvc pipe for the 34 mm custom spacer. Note: on left wheel you do not use the inset pulley spacer, if you do your bolts will get caught on the frame of the robot.